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Joe Rogan Experience #1923 - Mike Baker

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer and current CEO of Portman Square Group, a global intelligence firm. He's also the host of "Black Files Declassified" on Discovery+ and the Science Channel, and author of the new book "Company Rules, Or Everything I Know About Business I Learned from the CIA," available exclusively from Scribd.com on January 18.  https://try.scribd.com/baker/

Joe RoganhostMike Bakerguest
Jun 26, 20242h 37mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Ex-CIA Operative Dissects China, Crypto, Classified Docs, And Deep State

  1. Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker range across geopolitics, intelligence, and domestic policy, starting with crypto collapses like FTX and how basic due diligence could have exposed them. They dive into U.S. tax policy and the IRS expansion, Biden’s classified documents and Chinese-linked funding of think tanks, and why Baker sees China—not Russia—as the long-term strategic threat, including TikTok data collection and industrial espionage. The conversation covers the Russia‑Ukraine war, Iran’s nuclear ambitions, and the risks of escalation, then shifts to the “deep state,” CIA oversight, and Tucker Carlson’s claim that the agency killed JFK, which Baker treats skeptically. They close on culture and work-life issues—pandemic policy, remote work, religion, parenting—and Baker’s new audiobook on how CIA lessons apply to building a business.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Basic due diligence can prevent massive fraud losses, even in complex sectors like crypto.

Baker argues that early, disciplined investigation of founders, governance, accounting practices (e.g., QuickBooks for a multibillion-dollar exchange), and related entities would have exposed red flags at FTX and similar operations, just as it would have with Bernie Madoff.

The IRS hiring surge is likely to hit small and medium businesses more than billionaires.

He contends that 87,000 additional IRS agents cannot realistically focus only on ultra-wealthy audits; in practice, they will target smaller enterprises where audits are easier and more numerous, effectively a revenue land grab.

Foreign funding of U.S. think tanks can quietly shape policy and narrative.

Using the Penn Biden Center’s reported $54 million in Chinese-linked and anonymous donations as an example, Baker suggests an investigative look at top think tanks’ donors versus the policies they promote to understand influence operations.

China’s strategy is long-term data and tech dominance, not just short-term spying.

From TikTok’s permissive data policies to Huawei and rare earth control, Baker says China indiscriminately “hoovers up” data and IP—some of which may have no current use but could be weaponized decades later for economic or security leverage.

The U.S. needs intelligence agencies but must guard against political capture.

Baker defends the CIA’s core mission—understanding adversaries’ plans and intentions in a non-benign world—while warning that problems arise when senior figures get too close to politics; he insists career officers are largely apolitical but oversight and skepticism are essential.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“Decentralized is not the same as unregulated.”

Mike Baker (on crypto and the need for some oversight)

“China’s the bigger issue in the long term. We just need to be able to multitask.”

Mike Baker (comparing China to Russia amid focus on Ukraine)

“If you actually think there’s a firewall there, then it’s incredibly ignorant or naive, or both.”

Mike Baker (on the idea that TikTok data is walled off from the Chinese government)

“It’s not a benign world. If we want to fly blind, then I guess, yeah, you could get rid of the agency.”

Mike Baker (defending the need for the CIA)

“I think the thing people are weirded out by when it comes to intelligence agencies… is that they kind of act autonomously.”

Joe Rogan (on public fear of a ‘deep state’)

Crypto, FTX collapse, Binance, and lack of regulation/due diligenceIRS expansion, tax enforcement, and political gridlock in CongressBiden’s classified documents, Penn Biden Center, and Chinese funding of U.S. think tanksChina’s intelligence operations, TikTok data harvesting, industrial espionage, and rare earth dominanceRussia–Ukraine war, NATO involvement, and nuclear or cyber escalation risksIran’s nuclear breakout timeline, regional flashpoints, and Israeli red linesDeep state concerns, CIA apoliticism, and Tucker Carlson’s JFK-assassination allegationPandemic responses, lockdowns, remote work culture, and shifts in employee expectationsParenting, religion, moral structure, and Baker’s business book based on CIA principles

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