Joe Rogan Experience #1955 - Cliff Gray

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. CGCliff Gray0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Hello, Cliff. What's happening?

   5. CGCliff Gray0:14

      What's up, man?

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Nice to meet you in person.

   7. CGCliff Gray0:16

      You too.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      We've been chatting back and forth online for quite a while now.

   9. CGCliff Gray0:20

      Yeah, man. You know, it's funny. I was looking at it. I think it's been, like, five or six years since our first, like, interaction. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       (laughs) How did you get involved-

   11. CGCliff Gray0:29

       (sighs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       ... uh, being a, a hunting guide? What was your, what's your path to that?

   13. CGCliff Gray0:33

       Yeah, man. So it's a, I guess it's a, a long story. You know, I, I grew up in a rural area. My da-, my dad was a cattle rancher, and then he did a little outfitting when I was a kid. And then it, well, it's kind of a long story, man, 'cause I thought this was normal when I was a kid. But when I was, when my dad was an adult, he was a cattle rancher, and then he went back to vet school. And so, he actually left outfitting and cattle ranching and pursued that, and that was when he was, like, in his 40s, you know. And so, that was my first exposure to, you know, being an outfitter or guiding was through my father. And then honestly, man, like, growing up, I hunted all the time. I've been, I've, I've been obsessed with, you know, hunting since I was 10, 12 years old. And then I went and kind of did a more traditional, I guess, lifestyle. I went to school, went to undergrad, went to business school, and then I worked in finance for a few years. And, I mean, we can, we can get, uh, deep into, like, why that didn't last, you know. I, I got, I got-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       Maybe you can help us ex- pl- explain why the banks are failing right now. (laughs)

   15. CGCliff Gray1:42

       (laughs) I don't know, man. It's been so long since I've, I've been in that world.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       What a, what a different contrast, though. The contrast between that world and the world that you live in now.

   17. CGCliff Gray1:52

       Dude, it's cra- it's crazy to think about because I still know people that, you know, are finance guys. My brother's a finance guy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       Does he live in hell?

   19. CGCliff Gray1:59

       Uh, well, well-

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       He can't be happy. (laughs)

   21. CGCliff Gray2:01

       Yeah, yeah. He, he's, he's doing all right 'cause he doesn't, you know, he doesn't, uh, um, all his, the investment strategies that he's do, for the most part, are, like, hedge type of strategies. But, uh, but he's doing okay. But yeah, it's a different, it's a different world, man. You know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       It's definitely a different world.

   23. CGCliff Gray2:18

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Yeah.

   25. CGCliff Gray2:19

       And I always, I always look back on my path and I think, like, "Well, did I choose, you know, did I choose the right thing?" P- I don't know, but I'm happy. So, I guess, you know-

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:28

       If you're, if you're happy, you chose the right thing. But no one, there's no right thing. There's just, like, life. Life and decisions.

   27. CGCliff Gray2:35

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       So, this idea that you're gonna, like, "Oh, I wish I could do it differently." Well, you definitely can't, so don't wish that.

   29. CGCliff Gray2:41

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       (laughs) 'Cause there's, there's no way you can do it differently.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. CGCliff Gray15:00

      just because you get, you end up getting above timberline. And there's just some lish- logistical reasons. A lot of times, it's just better to backpack hunt them. Um, but on elk, it's almost always y- ... So you're packing your camp with horses and mules, and then you're coming back in. Sometimes you'll hunt off foot. You know, if, if, if the camp's in a, in a situation where you can cover ground on foot and hunt, then you'll do it that way. Uh, but a lot of times, you'll actually bring horses back in and hunt horseback too. And that's like a whole n- ... People don't ... I mean, you know, taking care of horses, you know, if you got 15 horses and mules in camp, like, you know, 12 miles back in the wilderness, like, it's ... You know, it feels like going back in time, man.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:40

      Yeah.

   3. CGCliff Gray15:40

      You know? I mean, that's why, that's why ... I mean, honestly, Joe, by the time I sold ... So I sold, uh, my main business, like, 18 months ago. By the time I sold it, the majority of my crew was Amish.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:53

      Really?

   5. CGCliff Gray15:54

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:54

      Amish?

   7. CGCliff Gray15:55

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:55

      How did you find these guys?

   9. CGCliff Gray15:56

      Dude, they just ... So I, the-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       'Cause they don't use electricity, right? So like ...

   11. CGCliff Gray16:01

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs) Uh, so we could, we could

   12. NANarrator16:03

       Get them online.

   13. CGCliff Gray16:03

       Yeah, dude, we can talk about it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       Can you get them online? Do they cheat?

   15. CGCliff Gray16:06

       We, we c- ... So yeah, yeah. So ...

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       (laughs)

   17. CGCliff Gray16:08

       Dude, I, I got some Amish buddies that I l- I love, man, and I don't ... So I don't, I don't wanna like ... Uh, like, Mark, if you're listening, man, and you, you probably shouldn't be listening 'cause you're Amish, but, uh ... (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       (laughs)

   19. NANarrator16:21

       (laughs)

   20. CGCliff Gray16:22

       But no. So the answer to your question, man, is it just depends on, you know, what church they're from and the rules, you know, the rules that they have established, you know, and what they're doing. So if it's for a business, a lot of them can use email. They can use a cell phone.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       Really?

   22. CGCliff Gray16:37

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       Oh, what a hack.

   24. CGCliff Gray16:38

       Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       That's ridiculous. Then you're not Amish.

   26. CGCliff Gray16:42

       Yeah, yeah. But it -

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       This is ... That's the whole thing.

   28. CGCliff Gray16:44

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       You can't use fucking email.

   30. CGCliff Gray16:45

       Well, here's the deal. So ...
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Oh, okay. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

   2. CGCliff Gray30:00

      Oh, okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      Interesting. Huh.

   4. NANarrator30:01

      I think wolves do it to disguise themselves from prey, but that, that's as best answer I found.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Well then, it makes sense that dogs do it, because dogs are just bitch-ass wolves.

   6. CGCliff Gray30:10

      Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, that makes sense.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:13

      Yeah.

   8. CGCliff Gray30:13

      You know, they, like, you know, they're trying to, like, put, get their scent, um, covered or something.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Yeah, so if an animal's downwind, it's just like, "Uh, I smell shit."

   10. CGCliff Gray30:23

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       It's not like, "Oh my God, I smell a wolf."

   12. CGCliff Gray30:25

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:25

       Yeah.

   14. CGCliff Gray30:25

       Sure.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:26

       It would overwhelm the smell.

   16. CGCliff Gray30:28

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       Do y- Well, what do you think about they're bringing wolves to Colorado? Do you have an opinion on that?

   18. CGCliff Gray30:33

       Yeah, man. I, uh, I got lots of opinions about it. I mean, so it's gonna happen for sure.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       Yeah.

   20. CGCliff Gray30:40

       You know? Um... Oh, man. We, we could, we could dive deep into this one, Joe.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       It's an interesting thing.

   22. CGCliff Gray30:48

       Yeah. So-

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       'Cause I feel like, as a person who has spent some time in the woods, not nearly as much as you, but I've spent enough time that I understand what the woods are. I understand what the wild is, and I don't think most people do. I don't... I think people have a very goofy idea of what the wild is.

   24. CGCliff Gray31:06

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       Like, animals living in a way that they've lived for thousands of years, and you just happen to be there. And if you weren't there, it would take place exactly as you witness it-

   26. CGCliff Gray31:19

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       ... without you being there. It's like you have almost no influence on it. They are, they are wild. They are living in the woods, and wolves are dominant, intelligent, calculating predators-

   28. CGCliff Gray31:30

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:31

       ... that they eradicated from the West for a reason.

   30. CGCliff Gray31:34

       Yeah. Yeah, man. So I think you hit on a bunch of things that were, like, bring me back to my opinion on it, and that's that (sighs) a lot of this stuff, when you, when... So, I know they, they've basically described two different areas in Colorado where they're going to put the two... uh, or the, uh, the two first sets of transplants, and one of them is, like, right in where you're not... I mean, I rode that country with a horse, like, all over the place. And the circle of where they're going to put those wolves is right there. So I know where they're going to put those, you know, one of the spots. It, I know the, the spot intimately. I know the wildlife there intimately.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   And do they keep…

   1. CGCliff Gray45:00

      big bands of sheep periodically in the wilderness areas, and, and they keep these dogs with them. And, uh, these dogs are something else to run into, you know, in the night up in the mountains or whatever. And they're, they're just, you know, they just protect those sheep. Just, you know, you see these big bands of sheep like this, and... See, uh-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      And do they keep wolves off of them?

   3. CGCliff Gray45:19

      Yeah, so, so I've heard mixed things. And this will be interesting, because right where they're gonna put some of these wolves in Colorado, there's some pretty big domestic sheep guys that run, uh, these Pyrenees dogs.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:29

      Oh, Jesus Christ.

   5. CGCliff Gray45:30

      And they actually... So, so sheep in the wilderness are one of the few animals that are still guarded by humans. You, you know, they usually have a herder with them.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:40

      Yeah.

   7. CGCliff Gray45:40

      And they, and a lot of them are guys from, uh... Nowadays, it seems to be that most of them are from Peru, I believe. And I used to run into the guys, 'cause they've been out there living with these sheep, man, for like weeks at a time. So-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:51

      Yeah.

   9. CGCliff Gray45:51

      ... even though there's a language barrier, like when they see you up there, like they wanna, they wanna (laughs) hang out, you know? Say hi or whatever.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       Just happy to see people.

   11. CGCliff Gray45:58

       Yeah, they'll have like a m- they'll have a horse with them, you know, maybe, I don't know, probably 5, 600 sheep, and they'll have a couple of those dogs.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:05

       Wow.

   13. CGCliff Gray46:06

       You know? But back to your original question, is, I've heard mixed things about these dogs' ability to, to deal with wolves, you know? And, and, and it has to do with the fact that wolf- there's more than... You know, there's a group of wolves. So if, if they can draw one of these dogs off, you know, they, wolves can, wolves can kill them. I know, I, I've heard, and I'm not an expert at it, but I know that some people in wolf country, what they'll do is, on the Great Pyrenees, they'll put, they'll put spike collars on them-

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       Mm.

   15. CGCliff Gray46:36

       ... so the, you know, the wolves can't get ahold of them.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       Yeah.

   17. CGCliff Gray46:38

       'Cause these dogs are big. Like, they're a lot bigger than a wol- than most wolves.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:42

       How big are these dogs?

   19. CGCliff Gray46:43

       These, these Great Pyrenees dogs? Man.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       What do they weigh about?

   21. CGCliff Gray46:46

       Dude, I'm thinking... Ah. Jamie might have to look this up, but I think they're-

   22. NANarrator46:51

       They're like 150.

   23. CGCliff Gray46:51

       Yeah, mid-156 160.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:54

       160.

   25. CGCliff Gray46:54

       That's what I was thinking.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:54

       No-

   27. CGCliff Gray46:54

       And that's a big dog.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       Yeah.

   29. CGCliff Gray46:56

       You know? Um, but I don't know how well they'll do with the wolves. And th- man, there's stories of wolves getting into these domestic sheep and killing like 100.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:05

       Shoo-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:07

   Here it is. In…

   1. CGCliff Gray1:00:00

      I ... They said they were extinct, they weren't around, and then a bow hunter went in there. I want to say like 15 years after they said they were extinct. And he went in there, and he got mauled by one, and he came out, and he's like, "Look, I just killed a grizzly bear. You're ... I mean, I'm telling you I did." And they said, "No, no way. You didn't." And they went back in there with him, and sure enough, he had. I got ... You have to look up the exact story, because I'm sure I kinda butchered it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

      Here it is. In 1979, Ed Wiseman, a Colorado hunting guide crossed paths with a grizzly bear during an exhibition, uh, expedition rather, near the headwaters of the Navajo River. Wiseman was attacked and mauled.

   3. NANarrator1:00:39

      Oh, I wasn't doing that.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:41

      What? What happened? Uh, but while he was down, he managed to fa-

   5. NANarrator1:00:45

      Oh, my God.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

      What the fuck is this? Is this like-

   7. CGCliff Gray1:00:47

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

      What is up with his website?

   9. CGCliff Gray1:00:48

      It's loading a picture, and then it's changing. It's loading right here.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

       Oh, I see.

   11. CGCliff Gray1:00:50

       Uh-huh.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       It's just a shitty website.

   13. NANarrator1:00:52

       It's right here.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       Um, but while he was down, he managed to fatally m- wound the bear by hand using an arrow.

   15. CGCliff Gray1:01:00

       Wild.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

       A fucking arrow.

   17. CGCliff Gray1:01:03

       But look, man, I ... So they're, they, they said they'd been extinct for like 20 or 30 years already, and then-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       How the fuck do they know?

   19. CGCliff Gray1:01:10

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       Here's the thing. Like, that kind of talk is so wild. Like-

   21. CGCliff Gray1:01:13

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

       Oh, so are you ... Do ... Are you out there with cameras in every fucking acre of that land?

   23. CGCliff Gray1:01:18

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       Shut up. You don't know. Like you should-

   25. CGCliff Gray1:01:20

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       ... really take the word of the people that find these things out there.

   27. CGCliff Gray1:01:23

       Sure.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:23

       Because those people are actually there.

   29. CGCliff Gray1:01:25

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

       Like, uh, how deep do the biologists go? I mean, how often are they there? How many boots on the ground wildlife surveyors do you have that are-

Episode duration: 2:38:46