EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,065 words- 0:00 – 1:08
Smelling salts cold open and launching the conversation
- JRJoe Rogan
(drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Get out. Chad, just get ... take ... oh.
- CSChad Stahelski
Is that how we're gonna start the show?
- JRJoe Rogan
Take a hit of that. Take a hit of that. We'll start the show. Just get in there.
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh, geez.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's, that's not even a fresh one.
- CSChad Stahelski
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
When they're fresh, they's a little-
- CSChad Stahelski
I just wanted to do it twice to make sure that was real.
- JRJoe Rogan
Shout out to, uh, how do you say his name? Pre- Jujimufu?
- CSChad Stahelski
Jujimufu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jujimufu for his-
- CSChad Stahelski
Ugh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... smelling salts.
- CSChad Stahelski
Because it was fresh. He couldn't do that twice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do it, it's fresh. If it's fresh, you get, like, that close. And you're just like ...
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, no, I'm awake.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was a good one, though. Whoo!
- CSChad Stahelski
Definitely awake.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm gonna bring these to the comedy mothership.
- NANarrator
All right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm gonna see. I'm gonna see.
- CSChad Stahelski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a big blast right before I go on stage. It's supposed to wake up your central nervous system or something.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, it sucks.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't even know if there's any science to it.
- CSChad Stahelski
No, it just sucks.
- 1:08 – 2:39
Why John Wick 4 goes ‘hyperreal’: bigger, bolder, comic-book energy
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank you. My pleasure. Uh, it's, uh ... Boy, Jesus Christ, is it over the top. (laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
Way over the top.
- JRJoe Rogan
This fucking movie is so crazy.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so crazy. I saw a thing online of the amount of people that John Wick has killed compared to, like, Michael Myers and-
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, I think we beat him, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, Jason. Oh, yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
I think we beat-
- JRJoe Rogan
By a long stroke.
- CSChad Stahelski
I think we, I think we beat Rambo too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I think you beat everybody.
- CSChad Stahelski
But I think we had more deaths than Keanu spoke words in the movie.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, for sure.
- CSChad Stahelski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
100%.
- CSChad Stahelski
He just ... With everybody he's bringing up to me, I think he spoke-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
... 308 words in the movie or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, listen, it works. It's perfect.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, something fun, something for the guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
The boys and the action fans and, and everybody out there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. It, it's murder porn. I mean ... (laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
It, it ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
Hopefully it's artistic murder porn.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's artistic. It is.
- CSChad Stahelski
Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, it's interesting how they're all so different too.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- 2:39 – 6:43
From stunt performer to The Matrix: Chad’s career turning point
- JRJoe Rogan
So, you started off as a stuntman.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And how did you, how did you transition to becoming a director? Because that's like ... There's gotta be a lot of barriers that are in the way.
- CSChad Stahelski
I think different time, for sure. You know, before, before cellphones, before all that stuff, we started as a stunt guy, before all the streamers. Um, you know, I was working for this guy Ernie Orsatti way back in the day, a brilliant stunt coordinator, second unit director on television. And I was working on, I don't know if you remember, the old show, like, Pretender with Michael T. Weiss-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm, yeah. Sure, yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
... and stuff. He could be anything, that kinda thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
And, uh, I was doing a gig on that. I'd just done a car hit. I think I was only, like, 24. I split my head open on the windshield. (laughs) I was a mess. And then, uh, he comes to me as I'm holding the ice pack on my head. He's like, "Hey, they're having auditions for this sci-fi film in Burbank." He's like, "You know, you're off. You can, if you hurry, you could make it." And I'm in jeans and a T-shirt and I'm bleeding and I'm like, "All right. Yeah, sure, I'll go make ..." "It's for that Keanu Reeves guy." You know, Speed had come out. (laughs) I'm like, "Keanu Reeves? I'll go see him, sure." So, we go up there, and it was an audition for The Matrix. And, you know, I ... At the time, you remember, back in the day, there weren't a lot of martial art movies at a, at a big budget level. It was, like, Steven Seagal or Van Damme or, uh, you know, uh, Mark Dacascos, all those guys at the time. And martial arts, you know, they didn't do them in big budget films. It was considered low budget, you know, action porn kinda thing. And, uh, we get there, get to this big warehouse in Burbank, and you saw this guy, really scruffy looking with a neck brace, you know, punching. It's Keanu. He had just come out from neck surgery.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus.
- CSChad Stahelski
And there's, like, 15 Hong Kong and Chinese stuntmen there, ah, screaming and yelling. I said, "Hey, I'm here for the audition." And I meet these, uh, these two fellas that come over. It's the Wachowskis at the time, uh, now Lana and Lily. And they introduce themselves and we're like, "Hey, you know, I'm Chad. I'm here for the ..." "Okay, great. This is Yuen Woo-ping." And I was like, "Oh." You, no one could told us. And Yuen Woo-ping we knew from, was the big choreographer that started Jet Li and Jackie Chan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CSChad Stahelski
Did, like, Iron Monkey.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
You know, Once Upon a Time in China and all that stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
So it was Yuen Woo-ping and his guys. And they're like, "Okay, you just, you just follow this guy." And this little guy named Tiger Chen. Tiger Chen. (laughs) Fucking phenomenal. The guy could do triple flips, twists, this ... Could do anything. A Wushu champion. They ... "Just follow that guy. Just do what he does."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- CSChad Stahelski
And for the next hour, I tried, you know, being the tall white guy, trying to just keep up with him. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you do all that stuff?
- CSChad Stahelski
God, no. God ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
I just did as much as I could till I fell down. But I, I was pretty flexible. I had a good gymnastic background, so I'd throw a back flip, I'd do the kicks, I'd do all the spin hook kicks. And, you know, we'd train with a lot of taekwondo guys and stuff, so we were pretty good at all the kicking and punching and some of the acrobatics. But then it got to a level, he picks up a stick, and now it's ... You know, you've seen the Wushu guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
They're going mental. And I'm like, "Oh, boy." You know, at the end of an hour, you know, I'm in jeans and a T-shirt still bleeding from a head wound. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus. Did you have a concussion?
- CSChad Stahelski
I ... Probably, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
I think so. Knowing now, looking back, like, yeah, that didn't seem too good. Um, but I finished, drove home, thought, "Wow, I really screwed the pooch on that one." And I never thought I'd hear from those guys again. And then, like, a month later, I get a call, "Hey, can you come back?" And exact same audition again, exact same.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
And then, uh, got the call saying, "Hey, would you like to double Keanu Reeves on this sci-fi movie in Australia?" And I was like, "Ah, uh, I got this other gig on TV. I think I'm gonna have to pass." (laughs) And the producer at the time was Barrie Osborne, who went on to do all the, all The Lord of the Rings. And he's like, "Ah!" He's kinda a little angry (laughs) at me for saying no. And, uh, I thought, "Okay, if I fuck that up, I'll never work again."And then-
- 6:43 – 9:16
How 'Scorn' became John Wick—and how Chad got the directing job
- CSChad Stahelski
You know, that's where I got to know Keanu and all that. Cut to years later, after all that, um, Keanu and I had worked together for so long there, he, he knew I'd been doing a lot of second unit directing, which for people that don't know, it's the action or the, the fight scenes, the car chases, the sunsets, all the shit (laughs) first unit doesn't wanna deal with. Um, usually big action sequences, so they have these action directors or second unit guys go out and do the units, trying to do it more efficiently without, uh, without the cast, with the stunt doubles and such. And, um, Keanu had gotten this script that he thought was something interesting about it. It was called Scorn, and it was the original, uh, John Wick script, where-
- JRJoe Rogan
How did it become called John Wick?
- CSChad Stahelski
Uh, Derek Kolstad's grandfather's name is John Wick.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CSChad Stahelski
Derek Kolstad being the writer of it, and so he just gave tribute to his grandfather calling him Wick, John Wick. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
Pretty trippy, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so, and how did that become the name of the movie?
- CSChad Stahelski
Um, Keanu at the... The original script, Scorn, the guy was like 65. He lived in a little brownstone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CSChad Stahelski
It was very, very grounded script. I think only two people died in the original script, and it was like one in a car crash.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's hilarious. (laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, it was just very c- it was kind of, it was very Cold War, old school. And that's where the gold coins came from because you didn't wanna leave a paper trail. It had very simple little ideas.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
And he handed it to, to myself and was like, "Hey, would you like to take a look at this?" And I was like, "Sure, sure, sure." I read it and I was like, "Uh, yeah, I don't know what to do with this action-wise. He only kills two people." He's like, "Well, we're trying to change it, and we're thinking of this." I'm like, "Well, I..." you know. He's like, "Would you like to direct it?" And I was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- CSChad Stahelski
... "Oh, yes, as a matter of fact." (laughs) I have some thoughts-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you had no experience directing, and then you directed John Wick?
- CSChad Stahelski
Just second... Yeah, just second unit, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude.
- CSChad Stahelski
Me and my, uh, partner at time, Dave Leitch, I called Dave... That was on a Friday. I called Dave on a Saturday going, "Hey, we might have a shot. We gotta put a pitch together in 24 hours." So I always had this idea about Greek mythology and how we could layer it and do this like... I'm a big Tolkien fan, so how do you take a, a fantasy gig and make it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
... modern day? So we're like, "Let's take it that way, and we'll put gods and Greeks and Charon and the River Styx, and we'll make this whole Zeus thing going on." And we kind of layered it, and Keanu just heard it on Monday and went, "Hmm. Interesting." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
And he said, "Sure, you wanna do it?" I'm like, "Yeah, you know, me and my partner Dave will, we'll co-direct. We'll, we'll, we'll do this," and we brought it to the, uh, producer, Basil Iwanyk, the next day. And he goes, "Well, if Keanu wants you, sure." We, we had done a little tape on that Sunday about, uh, you know, the gun fu stuff. We took aikido, aikijutsu, put in all the close-quarter tactical shit with some reloads, and we did a quick little pre-vis in our, in our space, 8711, back in LA, and showed it to him. Everybody thought, "Oh my God, this is gonna be, you know, great. Can Keanu do it?" We're like, "Yeah, I hope so." (laughs) Like-
- 9:16 – 13:28
Keanu’s firearm training details: reload flip, Taran Butler, and ‘spice’
- JRJoe Rogan
Where did the magazine reload flip come from?
- CSChad Stahelski
That... Funny thing that... I'm gonna give total cred to Keanu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
100%. He started doing that in the second one. We're like, I'm like, "Dude, what are you doing?" He's like, "I gotta check it. Wow, fuck." (laughs) He started doing it. I was like, "That's awesome. Gotta keep doing it."
- JRJoe Rogan
It is awesome. People do that now.
- CSChad Stahelski
And then he'd just single hand check. Yeah, it's a r- it's a legit thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
They're doing a competition
- NANarrator
I thought was pretty funny.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know how crazy that is? That an actor for a film decides to come up with a thing, and it's actually a quicker way to eject a magazine.
- CSChad Stahelski
He, he did, can do... He can do forehand and backhand.
- JRJoe Rogan
(clicks tongue) Wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
He does some trippy thing... He does it with the AR too. Like, you'll watch in the second one, he'll do a quick flip with the AR, and he'll put it on there. You're like, "Where the fuck did he get that?" (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he really, really trained for that movie.
- CSChad Stahelski
That's him.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, you can really tell. I mean, it's... There's films where guys do tactical scenes where you go like, "Okay, you know, I can buy it."
- CSChad Stahelski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But, but in that movie-
- CSChad Stahelski
The, the, the typical military way of cutting through-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
... you know, pieing the, the corners and going on stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
The very tactical sense. I think you're right. I, I, I see that. It just... It's like with martial arts. You can do the quick finger jab in the eye, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
Some... Once in a while, that staccato beat is cool, but choreography, and for the, the visual of it, I think sometimes you have to add something. You have to show people something they kind of expect, subvert it, and give them something a little bit different. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- CSChad Stahelski
Spice it up a little bit. So I think we went more with the competition sense. You know, I, I saw Taron online. You know, JJ Perry, a buddy of mine, introduced me to Taron online, and I saw Taron, and I saw some of the quick... I was like, "Fuck, that's what we're... We gotta put a little spice in this."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
And then sent Keanu out there, and he-
- JRJoe Rogan
Taron is such a freak.
- 13:28 – 17:29
Martial arts evolution and Chad’s training background
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why left-handed people are so good at things.
- CSChad Stahelski
I... What'd they say, like, you know, back in the day, you know, in gladiatorial or whatever, like, they're left-handed 'cause it was hard... It wasn't so much that they were better, they just... You weren't used to, to, to fighting with them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think, also... Well, there's definitely that, like when you spar with people, especially in boxing.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, when they go southpaw.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you spar southpaws, it's so confusing. I remem-
- CSChad Stahelski
Well, it fucks up your footwork-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
... 'cause you don't wanna keep stepping on their foot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly. Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
Kickboxing, maybe, is a little bit different. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, kickboxing, you're... Well, MMA in particular, like the elite guys like Sandhagen, these guys, they, they switch stances constantly.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, constantly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so there's this... You're getting overloaded with possibilities all the time.
- CSChad Stahelski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which makes it so interesting.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you get to these high-level guys, you know, when you get to, like, an Israel Adesanya guy, they, they give you so many looks. You don't know what the fuck is going on.
- CSChad Stahelski
They, they're changing that stance all the time. It's very-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and feinting all the time and-
- CSChad Stahelski
I- it's very interesting. I came up... I did a lot of Boxe Francaise, like Savate, which is very open stance-y, like, they'd mo-... It's constant motion, if you watch those old Savate guys, right? They're constantly moving. So they, they would fol- from almost a false lead, and you see so much of that now in MMA.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm, yes.
- CSChad Stahelski
It's false leads, they're switched so you don't... It's hard to gauge or set them up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- CSChad Stahelski
It's fascinating to watch now. I think athletes today, especially in martial arts, are like, just... Right? Whole nother level.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whole nother level.
- CSChad Stahelski
Whole nother. You can't even compete with what-
- JRJoe Rogan
They're the best of the best.
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh my God.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like, they're... No one's ever been better.
- CSChad Stahelski
No.
- 17:29 – 20:31
Designing John Wick’s ‘fairy tale’ tone: Baba Yaga, neon noir, and myth-making
- JRJoe Rogan
This scene... What... Who was the Russian gentleman, the, the guy who plays the father? He has-
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, Michael Nyqvist.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That guy was so good.
- CSChad Stahelski
So good. He was in, uh, the original Girl with Dragon Tattoo, and I think he did-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- CSChad Stahelski
... the, the third Mission: Impossible, I think he was the bad guy in.
- JRJoe Rogan
He died recently, right?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, he died a couple years ago. Um, I think he... I don't know if it was a heart attack or stroke, but he died. He still has a nice, uh, uh, charity thing that they do every year for him.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, that guy was so good.
- CSChad Stahelski
Fantastic guy, fantastic guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
That fucking scene.
- CSChad Stahelski
Swedish actor.
- JRJoe Rogan
The scene when he's explaining to his son, who's also awesome, the guy who was in Game of Thrones.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is his name?
- CSChad Stahelski
Alfie, Alfie Allen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Alf- That guy's incredible.
- CSChad Stahelski
So good.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's-
- CSChad Stahelski
We, we cast a lot of Game of Thrones.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- CSChad Stahelski
I love, I used to love Game of Thrones.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's so good.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's such... He plays such a good fuckhead.
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh my God, he's such a good prick, but like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
... in, in life, it's so funny. He is the shyest, quietest, super nice, like, hardest worker, just never left set, always there ready to do his thing, the sweetest kid ever.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well, I can believe it.
- CSChad Stahelski
And he just played... He's so good in the role.
- 20:31 – 28:38
Muscle cars and action ‘wishlist’: Bullitt influence, Barracuda choice, and car stunts
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you seen the Revology 68 Mustang?
- CSChad Stahelski
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Revology makes, uh, they make a replica of the Bullitt.
- CSChad Stahelski
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's with this sick suspension, with a 460 horsepower Coyote engine, and it's lightweight, so it's like 600 pounds less than the, than a real Mustang GT from today.
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh my God. Yeah, you'd be able to throw that around all day.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, oh my God, it's, it's, it's an incredible car. Yeah, he, he makes like-
- CSChad Stahelski
We have to check that out. That sounds awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, we should. Pull it up, I'll show you. This is, this is what he makes. Look at that.
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh, it's beautiful.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's his car. I mean, and it's, you know, fucking zero to 60 in four seconds.
- CSChad Stahelski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, so you can get it as six-speed or a manual. And the fucking car screams.
- CSChad Stahelski
You have to get it.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's such a fun car. So this guy's, uh, Tom Scarpello, he used to work for Ford. He used to be in their, uh, the program to make the Ford GT. And so he built this car.
- CSChad Stahelski
Full assembly to get this car. But he does it- Brands, the concept of a brand.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, it's inc- what he does is incredible because he's essentially done it like a production car, but it's a brand-new 1968. And it's done-
- CSChad Stahelski
All checked out.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's not just the Bullitt car. He does the '67 GT500, '67 GT350.
- CSChad Stahelski
That's amazing. That's for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fucking awesome.
- CSChad Stahelski
Well, that's what, I mean, uh, again, for all your listeners, you're the one that, you're the one that told us to use the '71 Barracuda.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm so excited.
- CSChad Stahelski
(laughs) I just-
- JRJoe Rogan
When I saw it in the previews, I was like, "Yes, he listened."
- CSChad Stahelski
No, uh, no, with, with, with context, I bump into you for the first time up at Taran's place.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
And, you know, we got the handshake, "Hey, you know, how you doing?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
And then it was, uh, Joe writes me going, "Love the movies. Where the fuck are the muscle cars?"
- 28:38 – 34:26
When studios passed on John Wick: indie release, early reactions, and sequel momentum
- CSChad Stahelski
But we didn't ha- honestly, we didn't know what we were doing. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you ever- Any idea it would be so huge, though?
- CSChad Stahelski
No, I swear-
- JRJoe Rogan
When it was done, though, you had to know you nailed it.
- CSChad Stahelski
No, we got, we got weird comments back. We got like too many head shots, cut out all the head shots. We got i- you can't kill the kid, Alfie Allen, and you can't kill the puppy. Somebody's gotta live. The, you know ... We were independent, so everyone was scared that we weren't gonna get picked up. 'Cause we had been ... We went ... When we shopped it, we went to, I think, four or five studios, and we didn't, we didn't even finish the pitch. They're like, "Nah, we're cool. Thank you."
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, we didn't, we didn't get bought, so we made the thing independently with Thunder Road, with Baz Launic and Erica Lee. Um, and it wasn't till we came out here, actually, to Fantastic Fest, like no one was buying the movie, so Baz said this great ... "Let's go. We'll show it at Fantastic Fest, see if anybody will clap." So me, Dave, and Keanu sneak in real low-key. We're gonna do a little surprise thing at that, and Keanu will do his little, you know, wave to the crowd. And the crowd goes fucking mental, like mental. And like the first family and friends we had, everyone got was really quiet afterwards. (laughs) Like, no applause, it was just really quiet. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why?
- CSChad Stahelski
And then-
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you think that is?
- CSChad Stahelski
I- I just think at the time, you know, we're, we're in the fast cut shaky cam, and it was, you know, the, the, the just ... It was so ludicrous that he's gonna kill 68 or 86 people over a puppy, and no one got that-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
... who was ... I know, it was fucking ... And I mean, th- you gotta remember, this is how we pitch it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
So like we'll go to a studio and go, "Okay, so we got this g- we got Keanu Reeves, right? I know we're a first-time stunt guys, but it's a, it's an action movie, right?" And they say, "Okay." And, uh, but, "And we're g- he's gonna shoot all this stuff. And so his wife dies of natural causes." Like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. The bad guys don't kill her." Like, "No, no, no, no." "But they kill his puppy." I'm like, "Yeah." "And he kills all the people because of the puppy, but not the ... What?" Like, they're like, "Well, what happens next?" I'm like, "No, that's it. The next 45 minutes are like just, you know, rampage." And yeah, yeah, no, we didn't, we didn't sell it very, very much. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
But they must be kicking themselves now.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, well, uh, Lionsgate bought us internationally, and then they sold us to domestic. And, um, since then, you know, we've gone through a couple regime changes at Lionsgate, but now, like, the last one was really cool. Like, everyone's on board, like Joe Drake, Nathan Cahane, Matt Leonetti, um, you know, um, Adam Fogelson. Everybody that's part of the regime, they really pushed this last one. They, they knew John Wick was cool, they loved the third one, and they got on board. But for the first, first round, it w- we had ... Once we sold it, the movie came out. Before it even came out, there was like this lag. They bought it, and then there's like six months before we hit theaters. I think Dave went off and did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 9 or whatever it was. I went off and did like The Grimsby Brothers, or Brothers Grimsby, Sacha Baron Cohen movie, second unit down in South Africa for like five months because I was broke. Um, it was pretty funny. Yeah, we, we thought we'd never direct again, so we were like, "We better go find some stunt jobs." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
And then it worked out. And then, um, like, uh, not even a month after it had opened, Keanu called up and he go, "Hey, uh, they called me about doing number two, but I'll only do it with, with you guys. You in?" And I was like, "Are you kidding? Yes. Uh, fuck, we're in. Whatever it takes."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah. It was-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome.
- CSChad Stahelski
... completely nutty, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And number two just picks up right where number one left off.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah. And we just were like, "Okay."
- JRJoe Rogan
And right off the jump, like, opening scene.
- 34:26 – 40:48
How Wick fight scenes are built: dance-based memory, wide shots, and safer gun tech
- JRJoe Rogan
So how much time did he have to train martial arts before John Wick 1?
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh, God, it wasn't that. He was coming out of a couple films, so he hadn't been, um... Like, he wasn't in fight shape. That was... So, you know how, you know how it is. Just like, you can't just jump back in. So we gave him like, I think, three to five weeks with some of the trainers we found to get into shape, to get into shape. You know, cut weight, got himself back in, stretched. You know, kind of got back into where he was on The Matrix. And then we stuck him with the, the fight teams and the stunt guys. I think we had him within three months. That was probably the shortest one we did. That was about three months to get him into that shape and teach him all the, you know, the aikido stuff and the aikijutsu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you need so... There's so much going on in those movies physically that you need to be proficient in.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The gun stuff, the, the throws, jujitsu, striking, everything.
- CSChad Stahelski
The jujitsu was the new thing for him. Pro- probably not the most physically demanding, but you know how it is. W- we're used to using your hands and feet.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
I mean, I'm sure you remember the first time he transitioned to jujitsu. It's like it looks easy, but you're like, "Ah."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
Completely-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's an eye-opener.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, it really is. And only even recently for me, I, I'm starting to feel like, "Oh, I can move." I, I... It feels just as good to be on my back as my butt, as my... like, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
But I think we took a lot of inspiration from dance. Like, uh, you know, most of what we do is dance, they're based on dance drills. They're not based on martial art drills. They look like martial arts. We kick, punch, but we don't train the actors in Thai pads or focus mitts or heavy bag. We'll do maybe a little of that for impact stuff, but it's mostly about memory. 'Cause if a guy can punch and kick, that's great. But if he can't remember five moves, you're not much good to us.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
And it's more, you know, martial arts is action, reaction or causing the guy to be off balance. All our guys are trained to, to keep him on balance, to, to make it look crazy, but they gotta dance with him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
So it's about that metronome, keeping the beat going.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
So when we trained him, um, he hadn't been trained that way before. It was more about memori- memorizing, uh, you know, a few moves, hitting some guys and whatnot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Specific sequence.
- CSChad Stahelski
But we realized we had no money and we had no time. And every time you do punches and kicks, you see in most movies, right? Like, they're on you, right over my shoulder.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
Then, you know, you take the hit and it goes over your shoulder so I can sell the hit. So you're always doing these reverses. So if I do a big wide shot profile, you throw in a nice roundhouse kick, I gotta cut somewhere to show the impact, unless you're really kicking me, which not advisable most of the time. So all, every time, the more punching and kicking and striking you do, or if Keanu's not doing the motion, I gotta cut more. And every time I cut, it's a setup. It's the, it's, it's just time-consuming. Not that it's bad or good, it's just time-consuming. We knew we weren't gonna have that, so we're like, "Fuck, what do we do? Okay, we're just gonna grab people." (laughs) "We're just gonna make it all grappling." And, like, is that gonna look... You know. You gotta remember, it's all during The Bourne, so everything's gonna look very slow, you know, compared to what it was. But we're just, we're gonna do all gr- We're gonna do aikido, aikijutsu, or jujitsu. That's it. That's all you get. And if you get a punch, it'll be a contact hit. That's all we're gonna do. No punches, no kicks, no nothing. And we'll do it all in one take.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
And we're all like, "Uh, yeah, sounds good." Um, you know. (laughs) No one...... no. Yeah, we thought it was a complete disaster after the first two days of shooting the fight scenes. We're like, "This is gonna suck. We're fucked." Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why'd you think that, though?
- CSChad Stahelski
D- I think it was everyone's mindset. Like, we did it out of necessity, and we thought it was cool. But like, you'd see people that would, "Where's the k-" Like, you know, s- sometimes people look at it and go, "Well, he's doing the same throw over and..." I mean, Ippon Seoinage looks the same, but for us, the different grips, the different throw, it, it all looks different to me. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
... I, I'm a throw, you know, I love judo porn. I, I could watch a million different throws. It's awesome. Um, for some people, it all looks the same. They wanna see the cool jump spin hook kick or something like that. Um, but then we put in the close quarter stuff, and when you're seeing it, remember, we don't have the muzzle flashes on, we don't have the blood splatters.
- 40:48 – 46:09
On-set war stories: Red Circle bar shoot, low budget hacks, and first-time director pressure
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did it take you to film that Red Circle Bar scene?
- CSChad Stahelski
Uh, I think less than four days.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, we went really fast. And Keanu was, he had the flu, he had like a 103 degree fever. He was going down. It w- it was a, it was a rough day. It was freezing cold in New York. He had the flu, uh, super high temperature, and we were just flying through it. Like literally two, three takes. "Move on." Two, three takes, "Move on." Just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Filming it with the flu? Wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, he's a trooper, man. He's hard to keep down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. That's incredible.
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, he's a tough fucker. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of actors, they have a fucking ear ache, they'll call it quits for the day.
- CSChad Stahelski
Uh, yeah. Maybe-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
W- no comment.
- JRJoe Rogan
No comment.
- CSChad Stahelski
But look, most of the people we work with are, they get it. And then w- we try to be smart too. Look, if we, if there was another way, if we could have shut down and let them, we just, it was like one of those, we either got to stop or we don't, w- we only get one shot. And you couldn't af- and Keanu's that guy too. You can't, you can't make him go and sit a chair-
- JRJoe Rogan
Where did you film that?
- CSChad Stahelski
It was all in New York City.
- JRJoe Rogan
But the, the Red Circle, where was that?
- CSChad Stahelski
It was in this little, it was up in the theater district. I forget the name of it. It was a shutdown little club that we just kind of opened back up and put our own (laughs) , put our own, put our own lighting rig in there and just kind of lit it up. I mean, if you had seen it in the daytime, it was all like that shit brown leather. It looked like you were walking into a, like a, you know, Big Boy's or something. (laughs) It looked really bad. That gives credit to John Cella, the cinematographer on the first one. We went in, put our lighting grid up, flashed a lot of big screen (laughs) neon lights, um, put the extras in funny colors. And you know, (laughs) we ran out of money, so we were like, we didn't, we didn't know how to put the, the bad guys in something. So we were like, "Okay, what would Star Trek do?" In Star Trek, we always called them the red shirts. You know, the guys in Star Trek that were-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
... always getting killed. All you have to do is when we were right there, Kirk was transporting down to the planet with the red shirt guy, that guy was gone.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSChad Stahelski
So we put all our bad guys in the red shirts (laughs) and they were just gonna kill them all. Uh, I think we had a deal. There's a local, like, one of the garment district things. You could, I think we got all those red shirts for like 10 bucks. It was like a whole deal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- CSChad Stahelski
So we just bought all the stunt guys red shirts. But yeah, we did it all in this shitty little club in like four days. Fi- uh, maybe four and a half days, something like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this has got to be very stressful for you to be first time director, doing all this, and then so much pressure, and also it's not picked up by anybody.
- CSChad Stahelski
It, you know, it's weird. I guess when you're in it, you're just trying to, I don't know, you just go into that mode of don't suck. Like you don't have to win, you just can't lose. Just finish, get the day, do your thing. Um, and my partner Dave Leitch at the time, like, you know, we both were so... We just love being on set. So I think we just... It was kind of str- you know, you come from the action, you say, "Oh, these guys can do action and you can do that." But when you're trying to put the storytelling in, you're trying to do that. I mean, you might get other guys you'll talk to or guys that come from the stunt world and say, "Yeah, it's just like doing..." It's, for me, it was nothing like Second Unit.... completely different. It had that different kind of pressure, but like, I guess, you see how things come together more. You know, you just do the action, you're worried about just making it look cool. You're trying to do something like, he has, you have Keanu Reeves, you have Ian McShane, you have Willem Dafoe, Lance Reddick, and you're kind of going, "Oh, I hope I don't fuck this up." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Who was the badass Russian guy that Keanu gets in a fight with and the guy throws him off the balcony?
- CSChad Stahelski
Oh, that's Dan-, that's Daniel Bernhard.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- CSChad Stahelski
That's a good friend. He was the star of Bloodsport 2 and Bloodsport 3.
- 46:09 – 1:06:12
Editing philosophy and handling criticism: pacing, test screenings, and reviews
- JRJoe Rogan
How difficult is it to take the dailies and then edit it down to a film? Like the editing process?
- CSChad Stahelski
You know, to put the assembly together, to actually just put clips together, it's, it's not that hard. I mean, good, bad, you know, we could take a couple shots at it. It's to... And you don't know this until you try it a couple times. It's like, where's the actual ... Like, how much can you take away? It's like chipping away at the, at the statue, right? It's not adding things, it's taking away things to really shine what's good. You know, lose some of the good to get to the great. So y- you don't want to cut your action, you don't want to cut any scenes, but then you watch the movie as a whole. And this is what I'd say to any other editor or directors out there that are just getting started. If you just edit a scene or you just edit a sequence or you just edit, like, a, an act, and then watch it and go, "I got it, I got it," um, you still haven't got it, 'cause there's this thing, we've all felt it in movies, about pacing, right? There's a way a three-hour movie can feel like two hours, there's a way a one-hour movie can feel like three hours. It's all about the pacing, right? So, what, what I learned from it is, you gotta sit, and every time you make... When you're in that place where you can just make these one-minute or two-minute changes, you gotta take the time to sit back and watch the whole thing. No pee breaks, no phone calls.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
No Th- And that's what we did on Wick 4 a lot, was like, everyone kept telling me, "It's too long, it's too..." Like, "I know, but let's just watch it." And my editorial would hate me, 'cause like twice a week, we're like, everybody's watching it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
You know, like, we're watching this. And you'd have to sit and get through the two and a half hours of it. And that's the only way you know. And then you're like, still, "W- we're not there. This is too fast, this is..."
- JRJoe Rogan
But is it hard to, when you're in the middle of it, is it hard to see it?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah. I, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
Because you've seen it so many times, is it hard to see it the way another person's gonna see it?
- CSChad Stahelski
It's like, it's like knowing you're lost, but also not being nervous by it. It's being lost in a good way, 'cause you can feel it, right? You can feel there's something cool there, and you can feel like ... I just go back to being an audience member. What do I wish I had seen in Star Wars? Which-
- JRJoe Rogan
Push that microphone up to your face.
- CSChad Stahelski
Sorry.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's okay.
- CSChad Stahelski
Uh, you know, you, you're trying to, trying to figure it out, right? And that's, that's the exciting part. You know there's something tingly there, you know there's something good, but what is it? Um, it's kind of, you can't be afraid to try, 'cause, uh, now, digitally, we can go back and forth and have 20 versions of the movie. Like, it's not like the old days-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
... where you cut film and glue it. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSChad Stahelski
So, we would always make a new ... We, we'd try ... I, I've always had good editors. I've always had young, hungry, great, great editors that wanted to experiment. And you, they swing big. So let's just, uh, "Can we do this movie an hour and 20 minutes?" And they'll do a version of it. "Can we do this hour ... Can we do this an hour and 45? What's the version of it?" And you'll start to see things that you obviously hate, but you'll also see choices that you could make to tighten things up. It's, and I'm sure everybody you talk to will have a different process, but like, I think it's both terrifying and exciting. And, uh, again, it's hard to explain. You can feel like you're on the right path even though you don't know it. Does that make sense?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
And you just have to keep trying till you watch it in the room with the sound, and you're like, "That's it. That, that's the movie I wanna see."
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you bring in people that hadn't seen it before-
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and just watch them watch it?
- CSChad Stahelski
Yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of like friends and family stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSChad Stahelski
And like, y- y- at first you're gonna, your ego may not be ready (laughs) 'cause like everybody likes something else, everybody thinks something should be cut.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CSChad Stahelski
Everybody thinks it's too much blood or not enough blood. I, literally, in the same day, I've had some of our, our, you know, some of our, our, our, you know, female friends came in and wanted more action. (laughs) And some of our d- guy friends were like, "We want less action." Like, you just couldn't tell what people wanted. Um-But y- you listen to what they all love, and that- that was the cool thing. They all love Keanu. They all cried when the puppy died. They all ... (laughs) You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- CSChad Stahelski
They, they all n- ... They all felt it was something they hadn't really seen before. It was action in a different way. They liked the mythology part of it. They liked the color. They liked the sound. They thought it was all very well made. I mean, whether you like it or not, you know, like, the crew was really good, you know, that kind of thing. And that, that's what sticks with you. But, like, I ... Now, I, I'll show my movie to ... I love showing it, 'cause I- I love he- ... (laughs) I, like, I get some of the most insane comments, and it's pre- ... (laughs) It's pretty funny. Like, even the reviews, like, Keanu and I have this little thing, like, you know ... So I, I, I know I've talked to some director friends that don't, don't read reviews. We, we read, like, every one. We're, like, masochistic about it. You know? Or, like, everything on Rotten Tomatoes or Honest Trailers or Everything Wrong With or, like, you know, the, well, The Critical Drinker. All these great guys on YouTube are just fucking hammering us on littlest shit. And we're kind of laughing because, like, "Okay, fair game, that ... W- we were right. We're a little over the top." But it's very interesting to see what grabs people, 'cause partly you're kind of like, "Okay, what's working?" You just can't let it direct you, really.
Episode duration: 2:05:06
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode O9Qovn60uQQ
