The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2085 - Charles Wesley Godwin
CHAPTERS
- 0:02 – 1:30
Meeting Charles Wesley Godwin and getting introduced through Duncan Trussell
Joe welcomes Charles and explains how Duncan Trussell turned him onto Charles’ music backstage at the Mothership. They swap appreciation for Duncan and talk about how quickly Joe got hooked on Charles’ songs.
- •Joe first hears Charles via Duncan’s recommendation ("Family Ties")
- •They play multiple Charles songs and keep the music going all night
- •Charles reacts to the surreal feeling of Duncan and Joe being fans
- •Quick rapport and setup for broader conversation
- 1:30 – 4:11
Asheville’s beauty, pandemic-era crime concerns, and small-town vulnerability
The conversation pivots to Asheville—its scenery, music venues, and a reported crime spike during the pandemic. Joe and Charles use it as a springboard to discuss how small communities can unravel when jobs disappear.
- •Asheville as an artsy mountain town and live-music stronghold
- •Claims/verification of a pandemic-era crime spike
- •Economic fragility when tourism/industry slows or collapses
- •Homelessness and social strain in previously “sleepy” towns
- 4:11 – 5:11
Morgantown’s downturn: Mylan leaves, COVID aftermath, and Main Street closures
Charles describes his hometown Morgantown, WV and how losing a major employer rippled through the local economy. Joe connects it to broader deindustrialization patterns that hollow out towns.
- •Mylan HQ closure and the outsized impact on a small population
- •COVID compounding job loss and downtown business closures
- •How one company’s exit can destabilize an entire region
- •Personal ties to the economic reality behind Charles’ songwriting world
- 5:11 – 12:22
‘Roger & Me,’ Flint’s decline, and America’s abandoned industrial cities
Joe brings up Michael Moore’s documentary ‘Roger & Me’ to illustrate the human cost of factory flight. They touch on Flint’s water crisis and Detroit’s drastic transformation from boomtown to abandonment.
- •Factory relocation and cascading collapse of local economies
- •Flint’s water issues and political/financial priorities
- •Detroit: from global wealth center to widespread abandonment
- •The “$500 house” narrative and the real costs/commitments behind it
- 12:22 – 16:32
From paper maps to GPS: how travel (and touring) changed
A story about a man who couldn’t reach Detroit because he couldn’t read maps leads into nostalgia about pre-GPS navigation. Joe recounts early comedy road-gig directions and primitive in-car GPS tech.
- •“Hillbilly Highway” migration and generational travel stories
- •Thomas Guides, handwritten directions, and pre-smartphone logistics
- •Early GPS systems and how limiting/slow they were
- •Travel competence as a lost skill in the smartphone era
- 16:32 – 20:16
Comedians and musicians: shared chaos, risk-taking, and evolving country culture
Joe and Charles compare the temperaments of comedians and musicians—impulsive, rebellious, and built for uncertainty. They talk about how modern genre crossovers (Post Malone, Jelly Roll) reflect a cultural shift in country and in art broadly.
- •Why creative careers attract “screw loose” personalities
- •Jelly Roll as an example of timing and life experience shaping art
- •Genre-collisions and wider acceptance in modern country
- •Tiny Desk performances as proof of format-shifting artistry
- 20:16 – 24:16
The surreal scale of live crowds—and the hidden health costs
They marvel at massive festival crowds (Woodstock footage, Korn/Metallica-era seas of people) and Joe shares a Chappelle arena story. The talk turns to headbanging, CTE risks, and how repetitive impact can cause brain damage.
- •Arenas vs festivals: what huge crowds feel like to performers
- •Joe’s Tacoma Dome story with Dave Chappelle
- •Headbanging and repeated motion as potential brain injury risk
- •Examples: soccer headers, jet skis, and accumulated impacts
- 24:16 – 26:14
How Charles started music late: WVU, abandoning football, and the Avett Brothers spark
Charles explains he didn’t pick up guitar until age 20 after realizing he wasn’t good enough to play football at WVU. Watching the Grammys (Avett Brothers, Dylan, Mumford & Sons) triggers the idea to learn guitar as a productive hobby.
- •First dream ending: football aspirations at WVU
- •Music begins as a hobby to fill newly freed time
- •Catalyst moment: 2011 Grammys performance
- •Learning chords, then discovering he could sing in his early 20s
- 26:14 – 32:02
Estonia turning point: first performance, lingerie fashion show gig, and getting paid
A study-abroad semester in Tartu, Estonia becomes the unlikely launchpad for Charles’ first public performance. A roommate forces him onstage, and the resulting attention leads to a paid fashion-show gig—his first time earning money from music.
- •Study abroad choices and landing in Tartu, Estonia
- •Roommate grabs his guitar and prompts an impromptu stage moment
- •First songs are covers (likely “Country Roads”), intense nerves
- •First paid gig: a lingerie fashion show; realization music can be work
- 32:02 – 1:01:21
Learning to write: finding his voice, daily notebook discipline, and the ‘muse’ idea
Charles describes the slow process of becoming a songwriter—starting originals in 2014 and taking years to find his voice. He and Joe emphasize consistency, showing up daily, and treating creativity like a job, referencing Jason Isbell and ‘The War of Art.’
- •Early songs were “really bad” and improvement took years
- •Process: notebook + voice memos + capturing ideas on the go
- •Jason Isbell-style discipline: write even when uninspired
- •‘Muse’ concept and the origin of the word “museum”
- 1:01:21 – 1:04:10
Pressure, labels, and near financial collapse: keeping the band together through 2021
Charles recounts the brutal economics of touring after COVID—taking a full band out, going broke, and nearly losing everything. A pivotal band meeting leads to everyone taking half pay until momentum returns via album release and touring with Zach Bryan.
- •Post-COVID touring realities: expenses outpacing income
- •Band dependency and responsibility increasing creative pressure
- •Band solidarity: half pay, “$50 a show” survival mode
- •Breakthrough: album release + opening for Zach Bryan helps stabilize
- 1:04:10 – 1:21:52
Resilience mindset: failure as fuel, jealousy traps, mentorship, and paying it forward
Joe and Charles dig into the psychology of creative careers: fear, regret, jealousy, and the importance of using setbacks as motivation. Charles highlights mentors who helped him (William Clark Green, Ward Davis, Zach Bryan) and discusses supporting rising artists himself.
- •Why quitting creates lifelong bitterness and “could’ve” regret
- •Failure as a necessary teacher and motivator
- •Escaping the “famine mentality” and reframing others’ success as fuel
- •Key mentors and touring opportunities; now scouting openers online
- 1:21:52 – 1:48:39
Touring health and lifestyle: running, vitamins, buses, alcohol, and road recovery
They talk about how touring wears down the body and what helps—running, vitamin D, supplements, and better sleep. The discussion includes bus-life tradeoffs, drinking less for performance and recovery, and the difficulty of eating well late at night.
- •Daily running and vitamins to counter touring fatigue
- •Daycare kids as “disease factories” and immune system challenges
- •Bus touring: better sleep vs crash risk and safety concerns
- •Alcohol’s effect on fatigue and vocal performance; late-night food discipline
- 1:48:39 – 2:00:54
Coal mining roots and West Virginia reality: danger underground and global energy contradictions
Charles explains his father’s decades in the mines, including terrifying low-seam work and cave-ins, and Joe reacts to the scale and risk. They expand to coal’s global role—China and India’s production, environmental narratives, and the human cost of extraction accidents.
- •What ultra-low coal seams require (crawling work, tight spaces)
- •Mine scale: miles underground, longwall operations, and modern mega-mines
- •Centralia mine fire and the long tail of coal-related disasters
- •Coal demand vs policy narratives; shifting production to other countries
- 2:00:54 – 2:27:47
COVID mandates, media distrust, and the opioid crisis (Painkiller) hitting Appalachia
The conversation turns political: vaccine requirements for touring, coercion, and Joe’s ivermectin controversy and media framing. They close on pharmaceutical incentives and the opioid epidemic’s devastation, referencing ‘Painkiller’ and the Sacklers’ impact—especially in West Virginia.
- •Mandates and the pressure to vaccinate to keep working
- •Joe’s COVID treatment story and the “horse dewormer” media narrative
- •Financial incentives in healthcare and inflated/biased reporting claims
- •Opioid crisis legacy in Appalachia; ‘Painkiller’ and generational loss
