Joe Rogan Experience #2085 - Charles Wesley Godwin

1. 0:02 – 1:30

   Meeting Charles Wesley Godwin and getting introduced through Duncan Trussell

   1. NANarrator0:02

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's up, man? Pleasure to meet you. What's happening?

   4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin0:14

      Yeah, pleasure to be here, Joe. Thanks for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Oh. Listen, my honor. I love your music. I got, uh, introduced to you by Duncan. We were in the green room of the mothership and Duncan goes, "You gotta hear this." And he puts on Family Ties. And I went, "Damn, that's a good fucking song." And then we played Que Country Roads, and then we just got on a roll. And then, like, the whole night we played your music.

   6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin0:34

      Hell yeah, dude.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      It was fucking awesome, yeah.

   8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin0:35

      He was telling me that, you know, he, he showed my music to you. He said normally you don't like his recommendations, but he said-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:42

      Well, he'll, he'll go a little emo on you.

   10. CGCharles Wesley Godwin0:45

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       (laughs)

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin0:47

       But he s- he said that you dug that. And I was like, "Holy shit, man. Isn't that something?" I, uh... Duncan is really cool. I was like... I was at, uh, Apple Studios in Nashville doing, like, this live session thing with them when he, he messages me on Twitter and asked me to be on his podcast. And, like, that made my, my freaking week. Li- I was like, "Holy shit, Duncan Trussell li- likes my music? Fuck yeah."

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       That's so cool.

   14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:10

       And then we were, we were doing his podcast and then afterwards he's like, "Yeah, man, I sh- I showed your music to Joe and he really liked it too." I was like, "Fuck yeah."

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       (laughs)

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:17

       So, yeah, shout out to Duncan. I appreciate him doing that, man.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       No, Duncan's the man. He is one of the most unusual people that I've ever met in my life. There's not another one like him.

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:26

       Yeah, he's cracking me up. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       Yeah, he's a one of one.

   20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:29

       (laughs) Yeah.

2. 1:30 – 4:11

   Asheville’s beauty, pandemic-era crime concerns, and small-town vulnerability

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:30

      That's a one of one. When he moved here I was so happy, 'cause he was... he, uh, went to Asheville. 'Cause, you know, he grew up in Asheville.

   2. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:37

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:37

      And, uh, he moved there and i- i- it was just... You know, during the pandemic it got bleak there. You know, the jobs were all dried up, everything was fucked, everything closed down. And he said crime was crazy.

   4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:48

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:48

      It's like, Asheville is, like, per capita in the top 10 of, uh, crime in the country.

   6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:54

      Oh. Holy shit.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:56

      So, I mean... I might've made that up.

   8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:57

      No, shit.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:58

      (laughs)

   10. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:58

       I mean...

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       Let's see if that's a fact-

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:00

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       ... 'cause ev- I think... I'm pretty sure Duncan told me that. But he's like, "Dude, there's so much fucking crime."

   14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:04

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:04

       "It's everywhere. Everyone's on meth."

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:07

       Your Duncan impersonation is way better than mine. But, uh...

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:09

       (laughs)

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:10

       We, we recorded the album there.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       Oh, no shit.

   20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:12

       That... We were there for two weeks last January and, uh, it's, like, sleepy this time of year. I guess their, their tourism is, is at its lowest in January. And dude, I loved it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       It's gorgeous.

   22. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:24

       I love the town and, and, you know... I don't know. I- it had some, some homeless and stuff like that, but damn, I didn't know that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:31

       I went back. I went there back in two... I think I did a gig there in 2015 or '16, somewhere around then. I was like, "Goddamn, what a great town." Just a perfect size. Not too big, you know, cool, artsy.

   24. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:45

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:45

       Beautiful scenery. You know, it's like... The mountains.

   26. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:49

       Yeah, I dig it. We were at the, uh... we played the Orange Peel, um, I don't know, like, four or five weeks ago and it felt like a hometown show.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Mm, that's awesome.

   28. CGCharles Wesley Godwin2:58

       Yeah, it's, it's a stronghold there in the mountains.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       Duncan grew up there and he said when he was growing up there, uh, there were so many cows that had magic mushrooms in their shit that the farmers started putting some sort of antifungal thing in the cows' food so that it would repel the fungus from the cow shit. I was like, "How satanic." (laughs)

   30. CGCharles Wesley Godwin3:22

       People, people were going out in their meadows trying to, trying to harvest those bad boys.
3. 4:11 – 5:11

   Morgantown’s downturn: Mylan leaves, COVID aftermath, and Main Street closures

   1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin4:11

      Yeah. That, that's happening in my hometown right now, I mean-

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:13

      What's your hometown?

   3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin4:14

      Morgantown, West Virginia. And it's... You know, it, it has its ups and downs, and right now it's definitely in a bit of a down. We had a, a big pharmaceutical company that was based out of West Virginia, um, called Mylan, and the founder passed away a little over a decade ago. So then when that happens, you know, it, it, it goes into folks that didn't build it themselves and they ended up selling to an Israeli company. And once that happened, they shut down those headquarters in Morgantown where it had always been. I think that was 1200 jobs in a town of 26,000 people-

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:51

      Oh, God.

   5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin4:51

      ... in the, in the city limits. So you imagine how many people that affects-

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:55

      Oh, everybody.

   7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin4:55

      ... in the big circle. Then COVID.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:57

      Oh.

   9. CGCharles Wesley Godwin4:58

      Uh, which that happened during COVID, so then you also, you also had COVID. So, you know, our, our main street, it's called High Street, is, you know, it's like one third closed down and it used to be all open.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       Fuck.

   11. CGCharles Wesley Godwin5:10

       Yeah.

4. 5:11 – 12:22

   ‘Roger & Me,’ Flint’s decline, and America’s abandoned industrial cities

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:11

      Did you ever see Roger & Me, the documentary?

   2. CGCharles Wesley Godwin5:13

      Mm-mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:14

      It's a Michael Moore documentary. It's the first one that he did. It's his best one, I think. And it's, uh, about Flint, Michigan and it's about when... what happened when the, um, car manufacturers all moved out of the country. And it's the saddest fucking documentary, man. It's just... They just up and pulled the factories just so that they could make more money having people work for cheaper, and the whole town just collapsed. Collapsed. It's just... It's so sad. One of the saddest things is there's this lady that has a sign says, "Bunnies for pets or food."

   4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin5:50

      Damn.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:51

      Yeah.

   6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin5:51

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      Like, you, you wanna think that, like, you're committed-

   8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin5:56

      Shit.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      ... to selling bunnies as a pet if it's a... You know, imagine that little puppy... We were showing... Jamie's getting a puppy, a French bulldog, and Jamie tried to con me into taking one of them and-

   10. NANarrator6:05

       I don't think so.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:06

       ... it might have worked. I did a dirty trick.

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:08

       Yeah. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:08

       I sent the-

   14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:09

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       I sent a video of this puppy to all my daughters and my wife. So, we might have a puppy.

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:16

       Easy going. It was definitely like Jamie knew that was gonna happen, too. It- it seemed like.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       Well, he didn't know that.

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:20

       (laughs)

   19. NANarrator6:20

       I waited long enough.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:20

       He waited a little bit.

   21. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:21

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       He didn't know that, but- but the moment I emailed it to the daughters, I was like, "They're gonna fucking go crazy."

   23. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:26

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       Um, but imagine-

   25. NANarrator6:29

       On to the other story.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:29

       What's that?

   27. NANarrator6:30

       On to what you were saying.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:31

       There it is right there.

   29. CGCharles Wesley Godwin6:31

       Holy shit, man.

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:32

       Rabbits, bunnies, pets, or meat for sale.
5. 12:22 – 16:32

   From paper maps to GPS: how travel (and touring) changed

   1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin12:22

      ... want some manufacturing space, that'd be a good spot to go. Back in the day-... during the, you know, the, the car boom, like Canton, Ohio, Detroit, Toledo, uh, Flint, it was a lot of, like, folks from the mountains-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:35

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin12:35

      ... that were moving up there, and, and getting those jobs. And, um, I think that was the Hillbilly Highway-

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      Hmm.

   5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin12:41

      ... is, is like that, where that come, that term comes from. And my grandparents were, were one of those. They moved up to Canton, Ohio, and my granddad was working for Ford, and the, the place where we're from in West Virginia is super country, like very rural. I think there's 4,000 people in the county now, in Pendleton County. And there's this, this local guy, I can't remember his name, but my, uh, my great-grandparents had an old, like, store, and where you could kinda go, and you could get your boots and your milk and your eggs and everything in this one little general store. And it was a hangout too, and this guy was, like, coming in the store, and he's like, "I'm going to Detroit, I'm telling y'all what, I'm gonna get a job. Headed up there." And he's talking about it for months and months, and then finally he's like, "I'm going," and then he gets in the car and goes. Everybody's like, "Oh, there goes so-and-so." And then two weeks later, he rolled back into town, he never made it, he couldn't find his way.

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      (laughs)

   7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin13:39

      (laughs) He couldn't, couldn't read, couldn't, you know, wasn't r- able to read a map well enough and just gave up and turned around.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:44

      (laughs)

   9. CGCharles Wesley Godwin13:44

      Ended up coming home after two weeks. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:46

       That's hilarious.

   11. CGCharles Wesley Godwin13:47

       Just gave up on that dream.

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       Boy, imagine people today trying to use maps. Isn't that funny that, like, being able to read a map kinda went away?

   13. CGCharles Wesley Godwin13:56

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:56

       When I was a kid, not a kid, when I was 20... Well, first of all, when I f- first started doing standup comedy, I would use one of these things, like a legal pad.

   15. CGCharles Wesley Godwin14:06

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:06

       And I would get a phone call, you know, and they would go, "Hey, we got a gig for you, and, uh, here's your directions. You got a pen?" I'm like, "Okay." And they're like, "Okay, you gotta take the 405 to the this, the that, to the 9, to the fucking... You're gonna take a right on this road, go two miles down the highway, you're gonna find a building." Like, "Wow, all right."

   17. CGCharles Wesley Godwin14:24

       Oh my God.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       And that's how we did it. So I used to have, like, a folder where I had the directions to all these different road gigs that were written down, and that's how I got around. And then when I came to California, I got a Thomas Guide, and I was like, "Wow, I'm in the fucking future." You know, I got a whole book of maps, and everybody had a Thomas Guide. And you would g- I remember first time Bill Burr visited my house, uh, he to- he had a Thomas Guide. He, he figured out how to get to my house with the Thomas Guide. I gave him the address, and he showed up with a fucking map book on his front seat. (slaps knee)

   19. CGCharles Wesley Godwin14:59

       Unreal.

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:59

       (laughs)

   21. CGCharles Wesley Godwin14:59

       Those are diff-... Now, you know, when I was a, I was a little kid, and on our family vacations, my brother, my older brother would be like, he would, he would read the map, and, like, give the directions to... Usually my dad was driving. Um, but yeah, by the time I started, like, working, you know, thank God for that GPS.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:17

       GPS.

   23. CGCharles Wesley Godwin15:18

       I can't imagine doing that, like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       Yeah.

   25. CGCharles Wesley Godwin15:20

       ... trying to find my way, 'cause hell, I mean...

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:23

       First time I had GPS, uh, it was like, '90 ... '08, something like that, '98 or '99. I had a, it was a s- like a CD-ROM that you stuck in, in the, uh, the CD player. It had a little flip-up screen. I thought, like, "This is the shit." I had an Acura NSX and the little screen would pop up and you put in the CD, and it was only for Los Angeles.

   27. CGCharles Wesley Godwin15:48

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       And it was real slow. It was real slow and shitty, but I was like, "Dude, I'm in a James Bond movie."

   29. CGCharles Wesley Godwin15:53

       Yeah, '98, that's some-

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       Yeah.
6. 16:32 – 20:16

   Comedians and musicians: shared chaos, risk-taking, and evolving country culture

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:32

      We're real similar. Mu- musicians and comedians always seem to, like, get along real good. We have, like, real similar sort of just sensibilities.

   2. CGCharles Wesley Godwin16:41

      Yeah, dealing with a lot of clowny shit. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:43

      A lot of clowny shit, a lot of fucking irresponsible, impulsive people.

   4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin16:48

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:48

      A lot of, a lot of substances, a lot of, uh, a lot of chaos, a lot of fun, a lot of rebels.

   6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin16:54

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:54

      You, you don't, you don't pursue that d- dream if y- you've got, you know, a law degree and, you know, a future with the firm and, y- you know, everything's lined up.

   8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:05

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:05

      And you got your 401 (k) ali- no, it's like, you gotta be a wild person.

   10. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:10

       You gotta have a screw loose.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       100%. (laughs)

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:12

       Somewhere there's gotta be a screw loose or, you know, there's some, there's some major, some major issue whether it-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:19

       Yeah.

   14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:19

       ... whether they express it or not, and-

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:21

       But that's how the great stuff comes.

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:23

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       Like, look at Jelly Roll. How do you... You don't get a Jelly Roll.

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:27

       No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:27

       With, with a guy who's had, like, a perfect education and a well-rounded lifestyle, and you don't get that beautiful, amazing, soulful music, and that incredible human being. You don't get that-

   20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:41

       And-

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       ... out of that.

   22. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:42

       ... I don't know him, but, you know, just listening to him talk, I don't think even 15 years ago Jelly Roll could be w- who he is now.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:52

       Right.

   24. CGCharles Wesley Godwin17:52

       If it woulda happened earlier 'cause he kinda jokes about, you know, like best new, he got the best new artist of the year, and he's like 39 or whatever.

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       Yeah.

   26. CGCharles Wesley Godwin18:00

       And he was kinda joking about that, but, you know, for him, the time, that is the, the right time for him.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Yeah.

   28. CGCharles Wesley Godwin18:06

       And, you know, it's just-

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:08

       Yeah, they all align-

   30. CGCharles Wesley Godwin18:08

       ... y- everybody has a different path.
7. 20:16 – 24:16

   The surreal scale of live crowds—and the hidden health costs

   1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin20:16

      There was a, um ... There was a video that my band mates were showing me from ... I think it was, like, that '90s Woodstock. The ... It might've been the same one. Maybe a different day, but it was, like, Metallica or Korn. I think it was Korn. And i- that sea of people is l- ... It looks like a sea with all of them, like, jumping up and down.

   2. JRJoe Rogan20:42

      Oh, wow.

   3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin20:43

      And the video's profound. Like, it, it, it was incredible. I don't know how they ... I don't ... I can't believe nobody died in that-

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:50

      Yeah, that's-

   5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin20:50

      ... with all those people moving, but ...

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:53

      Dave Chappelle and I, uh, did the Tacoma Dome once in, uh, s-

   7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin20:57

      That's it. Look.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:58

      Look at that. (laughs) That's so crazy.

   9. CGCharles Wesley Godwin20:59

      Look at that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan20:59

       Oh, my God. It does look like water. Wow.

   11. NANarrator21:04

       (rock music)

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:06

       Look at that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:06

       Wow. By the way, that's a really good way to get brain damage.

   14. NANarrator21:15

       Sorry, I got something in my eye.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:16

       I never used to think of that until I, I talked to my friend Mark Gordon, who's a, an expert in traumatic brain injuries, and he's like, "Yeah, you're not supposed to be bouncing your head around like that, like that."

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:27

       I gotta stop doing that.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:28

       (laughs)

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:28

       I do that in my shows. I need to stop doing that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:31

       I think it legitimately gives you brain damage.

   20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:34

       I'll start getting punchy, and I never fought.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:36

       Yeah. Well, soccer players get it, man.

   22. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:37

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       Soccer players get CTE from hitting the ball. A soft-ass ball bouncing around your head over and over again will give you brain damage.

   24. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:44

       Mm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:45

       Yeah. Jet skiers. You get it from jet skis.

   26. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:47

       Oh, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       Bouncing on waves all the time. Bang, bang, bang. You can get brain damage that way.

   28. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:52

       Man.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       Which is nuts.

   30. CGCharles Wesley Godwin21:54

       I know.
8. 24:16 – 26:14

   How Charles started music late: WVU, abandoning football, and the Avett Brothers spark

   1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin24:16

      That- that's the whole reason I can do what I'm doing, 'cause I didn't pick up a guitar until I was 20.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:21

      Really?

   3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin24:21

      Yeah. So it was I got a late start, and, you know, I'm not a great guitar player. I'm still very much, like, an intermediate guitar player, but, you know, I was fortunate enough to ... And I didn't grow up singing, so I just found out that I could sing in my early 20s and then realized-

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:39

      How did you find out? Like, what, what, what were you doing before you started doing music?

   5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin24:43

      So I was at West Virginia University and I wanted to play football, but I wasn't good enough. That, I had no God-given talent to be (laughs) good enough, y- and when you want something really bad, you know? It was m- ... That was, like, my first dream that died, you know? And once I let that go, I had all this free time, and I was like, I need to ... 'Cause I've always hunted and fished, but when you're going to the class every day, you can't always ... I needed more things to fill my time up, so I was watching the Grammys in 2011, and the Avett Brothers played, and then they played with, with Bob Dylan and Mumford & Sons, and I just remember watching them and being like ...... man, that, that's incredible. Maybe I should pick a guitar up. That'd be something I can do productive in the evenings. So that's how I, I got started. And then it was about a year later in 2012 when I actually could, like, string some chords together, and then I started singing, and then I started figuring it out.

   6. JRJoe Rogan25:37

      So you initially just started doing it just for fun?

   7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin25:40

      Yeah. Yeah, it was just gonna be just another, like, just something to get into and, and, you know, something... a productive hobby. You know, I was just kind of looking for some more things because, um, since I gave up, you know, trying to play football, that just wasn't gonna happen, you know, all that time I used to spend working out and trying to make that happen, uh, became free time because, you know... So I just had to try to fill that time up with something 'cause I just didn't want to sit around and, and bullshit with my friends all the time (laughs) you know? And, and so that's how I got into it.

9. 26:14 – 32:02

   Estonia turning point: first performance, lingerie fashion show gig, and getting paid

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:14

      Was there a thing that made you realize that you could do this professionally? Was there a moment where you figured it out?

   2. CGCharles Wesley Godwin26:20

      Mm-hmm. Um, I got... I had a very unique first gig. So I was on the spro- the, uh, Promise Scholarship at, at West Virginia-

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:31

      (clears throat)

   4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin26:31

      ... and that was this thing for in-state kids. If you had good grades, you'd go to school for free at an in-state, uh, university. So I was at WVU going to school for free 'cause of my grades, and they had a study abroad program. And my junior year I was like... I'd never been overseas and I was like, "That would be... I'd like to experience that." So I went into the counselor's office and they kind of laid out some different options. And I got a, a finance degree at WVU and there were four places I could go. There was Hartfordshire, England, Bamberg, Germany, Tartu, Estonia, and Hong Kong. So they kind of, like, were telling me all about the different schools and I ended up landing on Tartu, Estonia as the place to go to.

   5. JRJoe Rogan27:17

      Wow.

   6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin27:18

      So I went over there and had, uh, brought my guitar and I just continued practicing a little bit in the evenings just for fun. But I had six flatmates, so there was no way that I could go anywhere and not be heard by them, you know, in, in our place. So I was a little uncomfortable with that 'cause I wasn't used to people listening to me at all or, or singing in front of anybody, but, um, I didn't want to, like, not play the guitar for half a year. So I kept doing it, and then when I was over there, we went to a show in... one night there in Tartu and there was this, uh, this club. The, the... it was like a little, like, 150 cap room, maybe 200. And we go to this show and one of my roommates, after I left, had brought, taken my guitar, and after the show was done, he ran up on stage and for some reason the mic was still on. His name was Balaam, and he, uh, he ran up there and said, "Charlie, come play a song." (whispers) I was like, "Fuck no. No way." And then he got the room to start chanting, "Charlie. Charlie." And then I'm like kinda calculating in my head the pros and cons of, like, bitching out or just-

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:30

      (laughs)

   8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin28:30

      ... following through, and I was like, "At this point it'd be way worse if I bitched out and didn't go up and play one." So I went up and played, like, a song and-

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:36

      Was it an original song?

   10. CGCharles Wesley Godwin28:37

       No. No, I hadn't started writing then.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:39

       Oh, wow.

   12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin28:39

       Didn't have any aspirations yet to do, to do this professionally.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:43

       What song did you play?

   14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin28:45

       Probably Country Roads.

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:46

       Wow.

   16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin28:46

       I probably only knew, like, six songs. Um, and I was, like, shaking in my jeans, just so nervous, but I got through it, and then I got a Facebook message the next... That was a Friday, so on Monday I got a Facebook message from a fashion designer there in town, and she asked if I could play for her fashion show that Friday and I said, "Yeah, sure. Hell yeah." She goes, "Can you fill 20 minutes?" I'm like, "I, I can fill 20 minutes. Yeah." So I showed up and it was at this, uh... it's like this, this café with, like, one of those courtyards in the middle of the building, you know what I mean?

   17. JRJoe Rogan29:20

       Mm-hmm. Sure.

   18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:20

       You ever been in a place like that? And it had these two French doors, and they had the sound all hooked up and a couple of my American buddies that were over there with me, um, came with me and they got me set up and then it ended up being a lingerie fashion show. So I got paid-

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:36

       Is this it right here?

   20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:37

       That's it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:37

       (clears throat) Oh, Jamie found it. (instrumental music plays)

   22. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:40

       Oh, shit, Jamie. Don't embarrass me. You're playing it?

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:43

       Play it. Play it.

   24. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:44

       (laughs) No. No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:45

       Let me hear it.

   26. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:45

       No. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan29:50

       By the way, this is a song you could fucking never write today.

   28. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:54

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:55

       << Hey, little girl, is your daddy home? >>

   30. CGCharles Wesley Godwin29:56

       Yeah.
10. 32:02 – 1:01:21

    Learning to write: finding his voice, daily notebook discipline, and the ‘muse’ idea

    1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:02

       So it, it took me until 2017, 2018, to find my voice, you know?

    2. JRJoe Rogan32:07

       When did you start writing your own original songs?

    3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:10

       2014.

    4. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Okay, so after your first gigs?

    5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:14

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       Wow.

    7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:15

       Yeah. Yeah, I was playing covers and singing, singing like bluegrass stuff and I just, uh-

    8. JRJoe Rogan32:20

       Had you had any ideas about writing songs? Had you ever written any lyrics or had any lyrics in your head or anything like that?

    9. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:27

       Mm-mm. I started trying to do it when I had like really made the decision that I wanted to do this and I was like, "Well you can't do it, you know, without writing your own music," you know? So then I started doing that and that, that was really bad for-

    10. JRJoe Rogan32:40

        (laughs)

    11. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:40

        ... for a long time, you know?

    12. JRJoe Rogan32:42

        Well, do you remember what your first song was that you wrote?

    13. CGCharles Wesley Godwin32:44

        I can't remember what the first one would have been. I know, I remember the third one 'cause the third one wasn't terrible and it was actually one that I, I put it on the new album, uh, for you know just kinda, I, I thought it'd be, it'd be cool to put it on there, um-

    14. JRJoe Rogan33:00

        That is cool.

    15. CGCharles Wesley Godwin33:00

        ... Soul Like Mine, but yeah most of them were really bad and uh, (laughs) you know, started working on it and figuring it out.

    16. JRJoe Rogan33:08

        What is your writing process? Do you sit with a notebook? Do you just start g- playing the guitar and start singing? How do you do it?

    17. CGCharles Wesley Godwin33:15

        Yeah, I sit with a notebook and that voice m- uh, voice memo and then when I'm out and about though, that notes and voice memo app, I have them separate on my phone and I'll jot down ideas, hum melodies into it, and I try to stay pretty consistent with it and show up every day and put some, put some thought into it in front of the notebook to, to get my stuff.

    18. JRJoe Rogan33:37

        And so do you wait for (clears throat) an inspiration to come to you or just sit down?

    19. CGCharles Wesley Godwin33:42

        No, I'll sit down even if I got nothing just because if I do that, then I'll find myself maybe going a whole month with- without-

    20. JRJoe Rogan33:49

        Yeah.

    21. CGCharles Wesley Godwin33:49

        ... you know, that I, um... Years ago I listened to Jason Isbell was giving kind of some advice on it and he said, you know, "Treat it, treat it like a job, like consistent, you know, show up to the notebook consistently, show up every day even when you're not inspired and that'll... It's kind of like, um, making your own luck so to speak." You get-

    22. JRJoe Rogan34:10

        Have you ever read, uh, Steven Pressfield's The War of Art?

    23. CGCharles Wesley Godwin34:14

        I did, yeah. Yeah, I read that I think last year or the year before.

    24. JRJoe Rogan34:18

        Um, he sent us a box of those if you want one.

    25. CGCharles Wesley Godwin34:22

        Hell yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan34:22

        A sign- a signed copy.

    27. CGCharles Wesley Godwin34:23

        Fuck yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan34:24

        Yeah, he sent us a box of signed cop- I think I probably sold more of those books for him than anybody alive. It's a great book.

    29. CGCharles Wesley Godwin34:30

        It is.

    30. JRJoe Rogan34:31

        I, I don't remember who recommended it to me originally, I probably mentioned it on the podcast and I forgot who it was, but, uh, it's one of the best books in terms of like a practical guide to creativity because you really, genuinely have to treat it like you, like... He considers it the muse, like there is a muse and you contact this muse and if you do it deliberately and you do it with respect and you do it every day, the- those ideas will come.
11. 1:01:21 – 1:04:10

    Pressure, labels, and near financial collapse: keeping the band together through 2021

    1. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:01:21

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. They, uh, and that, that was like, you know, I'm, I'm 31, um, I released my first album in 2019, but I didn't get booking, and management, and stuff like that until even after that. So COVID cut the legs out from, from me. Things were just starting to actually look a little bit legitimate, (laughs) you know, in my life. And COVID cut the legs out from under that. So on the other side of that is really where, you know, um, I coulda gone two ways. And I went back on tour in the spring of '21, and then I started taking my full band out with me in, or a seven piece, including myself, in the summer of '21. And I went broke in the fall.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

       Whoa.

    3. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:02:12

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:13

       Damn.

    5. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:02:13

       Yeah, I couldn't ma- I couldn't pay my guys-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:15

       Wow.

    7. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:02:16

       ... one week. And I had, uh, my second album, which we made, n- during the COVID year, went on pre-sale-... that next week. And I explained to my guys what was happening, and they stuck with me. And once I put the pre-sales up, then I got a little bit, you know, to keep paying them, and we were able to keep working. And then I was bleeding real bad in '21. And it came down to one point in, uh, Bloomington, Indiana. We played The Bluebird one night, and I'd just gotten a new day-to-day manager who's, who's done a phenomenal job for me. But anyways, he'd just gotten on the job and basically broke it down for me on the phone how much I was losing per month. And was just saying, he's like, "This is... You're, you're, you're going belly up here. This, this is over. You have to cut half these guys. And even then, we're gonna have a hard time making it." And after tha- that gig, um, we all sat outside in the alleyway. And I explained to them what was happening, and they all took half pay.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:03:20

       Damn.

    9. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:03:21

       So, my guys were willing to go, um, $50 a show.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:03:25

        Damn.

    11. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:03:26

        And they were in 100%. They didn't have the, you know, their jobs and stuff back home. They were, they were with me.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:03:32

        Wow.

    13. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:03:33

        And they were game to go for that, which, you can't live off that. And we, we c- kept hanging on there for a couple months, and then that second album came out in November. And we'd gotten on the road with, uh, Zach Bryan brought us out on the road with him. And, you know, the, the out- it worked, you know? The album, it did great, and we made the most of our opportunity getting to open that tour for him. And, you know, we made it. But I-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:00

        The universe rewards that.

    15. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:04:02

        ... I r- You know, it, it was that close to just, even if I wanted to, I wouldn't have had m- money to even put in the gas tank.

12. 1:04:10 – 1:21:52

    Resilience mindset: failure as fuel, jealousy traps, mentorship, and paying it forward

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:04:10

       But that's what makes the story beautiful. The terrible story is you quit. That's the terrible story.

    2. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:04:15

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:04:15

       That you're sitting on the porch one day and you're an old man, going, "Goddammit, I think I could've made it."

    4. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:04:20

       Yeah. But I was-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:04:21

       Those are the most bitter of people, man. Those are the ones that talk the most shit about other artists. They talk the most shit about other people. The people that just have these regrets, the f- the failed attempts. The, the, they didn't go through the door. They didn't do it. They didn't take that risk. They didn't just run. They didn't just fucking suck it up and try it. That's a scary thing. But if you can get through that scary thing, that's a better life. That's a better life. The, the life of fear and the life of regret, that's a terrible life.

    6. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:04:52

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:04:52

       That life of wishing, I could've, the could've life. That's the shittiest life.

    8. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:04:58

       Yeah, you don't wanna be that.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:05:00

       Goddamn, you don't wanna be that, especially when there was a spark, when there's some potential.

    10. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:05:04

        Yeah, and-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:05:05

        Like, in, in the comedy world, when you start out as an open mic'er, you start out with a bunch of fucking mental patients and crazy people, and.

    12. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:05:13

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:05:14

        'Cause anybody can go on stage.

    14. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:05:15

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:05:15

        You know? And there's always, like, one or two guys that you're with, or girls, and they, they got something. They got something. And some of them make it and some of them don't. And if there's 100 of them, maybe one of them will become a professional, maybe.

    16. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:05:28

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:05:29

        It's probably not even that. It's probably, like, for 500 open mic'ers, one... Eh, it's probably not even that. It's probably 1,000. For every 1,000 open mic'ers that regularly shows up, one of them will become a working professional.

    18. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:05:41

        Yeah, that can actually sell tickets. Mm-hmm.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:05:43

        But man, I have these fucking dreams sometimes where I remember these people that I knew that they had it, man. They had something. They had something. There's this girl that I dated when I was like, uh, 21. It was, like, the last time I ever dated a comedian. But goddammit, she was funny, man. She was really funny. She was really funny. And I remember thinking, "Damn, she's funnier than me." Like, "She's funny, man. She's good." Like, "She c- she could... She got something." And it wasn't always. You know, you'd have these... Open mics are rough, like, bad crowds. Like, sometimes you bomb, sometimes you do well. But every now and then, she would be on stage and she would catch that wave, and they'd be like, "Look at her go."

    20. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:20

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:06:20

        "Look at her go. She's gonna do it. She's gonna make it." She fucking quit.

    22. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:24

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:06:24

        And I always, I think about people like that. I think about dudes that I knew that it just had it, man. There was this one guy that I knew in, from New York. Remember the first time I watched him on stage? I'm like, "Oh my God, that guy's the next Bill Hicks. Look at this motherfucker."

    24. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:38

        (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:06:38

        "Holy shit." Quit.

    26. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:40

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:06:40

        Disappeared. Went away. I'm like, "Fuck."

    28. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:42

        It's a hard road, hard road to go.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:06:44

        But that's the life of sadness and regret. Just to fucking not ever go for it is the worst. So that's like the universe gave you a little challenge. Say, "Hey, Charles."

    30. CGCharles Wesley Godwin1:06:57

        Yeah, that one... Man, I was, I was losing sleep, bud. I was-

Episode duration: 2:27:47