CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:21
Why 'The Smashing Machine' works as a film (not just an MMA movie)
Joe opens by praising the new Mark Kerr biopic for being a compelling drama that happens to be set in MMA. Mark reacts to seeing Dwayne Johnson capture his mannerisms and personality with uncanny accuracy, and they highlight Emily Blunt’s tense, anxiety-inducing performance as Dawn.
- 3:21 – 4:47
Watching your life on screen: Venice premiere as therapy and self-reckoning
Mark describes seeing the finished film in Venice sitting next to the cast and director, and how the final scene hit him like therapy. He reflects on the costs of singular ambition and the emotional toll his pursuit of greatness took on the people around him—especially Dawn.
- 4:47 – 6:40
Early UFC era and the birth of MMA: Joe’s 1997 memories and the “best style” question
Joe and Mark rewind to the late 90s—when MMA was still strange and underground—and discuss how Joe got involved with early UFC broadcasts. They revisit the original appeal of MMA: finally testing styles in real competition, and how Japan’s scene accelerated the sport.
- 6:40 – 9:59
Why wrestling rules MMA: control, pace, cardio, and sustained attacks
They break down wrestling’s core advantage: dictating where the fight happens and forcing opponents to work. Mark explains the “wrestler definition” through control and positional dominance, and they connect it to modern examples like Khamzat, Merab, and prime Cain Velasquez.
- 9:59 – 15:21
Steroids, PRIDE culture, and the wild west of contracts and “drug testing”
The conversation shifts to the open-secret steroid era and the lack of testing—especially in PRIDE. Mark and Joe share stories about how norms changed when huge wrestler-athletes appeared, plus absurd anecdotes about sham drug tests and contract chaos.
- 15:21 – 37:29
Authenticity obsession: rebuilding 1990s MMA sets, props, and PRIDE weirdness
Mark explains the years-long development of the film (starting in 2019) and the trust required to let it happen. They describe painstaking efforts to recreate arenas, backstage spaces, props, and the surreal moment Mark first saw DJ in full prosthetics—like meeting a doppelgänger.
- 37:29 – 41:14
PRIDE vs UFC: Kerr’s contract dispute, almost fighting Royce Gracie, and Japan’s hidden operators
Mark details how he moved from UFC tournament deals into PRIDE’s world, including being sued by the UFC and the months-long legal mess. He also reveals the near-reality of fighting Royce Gracie in the Tokyo Dome, plus the culture shock of PRIDE’s leadership and naming conventions.
- 41:14 – 51:19
Heavyweight realities: weight, overtraining, nerves, and the Fujita hypoglycemic crash
They get into the physical constraints of being an enormous heavyweight—how mass affects breathing, cardio, and performance. Mark explains the training evolution that brought his weight down, the risks of overtraining, and how fight-week nerves and low food intake led to a dangerous blood-sugar crash against Fujita.
- 51:19 – 56:08
MMA’s modern leap: technique explosion, GOAT debates, and the “new gear” phenomenon
Joe and Mark compare MMA’s rapid evolution from the 90s to today and argue it may be unmatched in sport. They debate greatness in context (prime vs late career), talk Jon Jones’ brilliance and chaos, and return to the theme of rare athletes who access a gear others can’t.
- 56:08 – 1:46:51
Money, careers, and building fighters: PRIDE paydays, cash briefcases, and UFC’s growth pains
Mark explains how early fights were “internally funded” and how PRIDE money turned fighting into a real profession—sometimes literally paid in cash. They discuss fighter pay as investment in performance, the UFC’s near-collapse, and how The Ultimate Fighter changed everything.
- 1:46:51 – 2:12:21
Advice for young fighters: build a base with grappling, then scale into MMA promotions
They shift into practical guidance: how a developing fighter should structure a path without getting thrown into elite competition too soon. Mark emphasizes submission grappling as a low-impact way to learn competition and preparation, then layering striking and pro fights strategically.
- 2:12:21 – 2:31:10
Addiction, identity, and redemption: from shame and opioids to sobriety and meaning
Mark gets deeply personal about substance abuse, the early misunderstanding of opioid addiction, and how shame traps people in secrecy. He describes the pivotal moments around the HBO documentary, why he didn’t veto it, his sobriety date tied to his mother’s death, and the long process of rebuilding identity beyond fighting.
- 2:31:10 – 2:55:30
Psychedelic therapies, meditation, and staying open-minded about healing
Joe introduces ibogaine as a powerful addiction-interruption tool now gaining traction, especially for veterans with PTSD. Mark connects this to broader lifestyle changes—meditation, chanting, nature, and openness to ideas he would have dismissed while fighting and using.
- 2:55:30 – 3:03:06
Closing reflections: when to retire, the loneliness of fighting, and the film’s legacy
They close on what it costs to be elite: the dark ‘switch’ required to hurt people, the loneliness before and after fights, and the impossibility of staying at the top. Mark says he wishes he’d stopped after Fujita, and both agree the film and documentary matter because they show the real human consequences behind the highlight reels.
