CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:21
Book tour stories, fan tattoos, and launching a Vietnam-era novel
Joe and Jack reunite and warm up with stories from Jack’s book tour, including appearing at Kill Tony, kicking off the tour with Rambo creator David Morrell, and meeting fans in the wild. They riff on the surreal experience of people getting tattoos (and even asking him to sign a baby).
- •Jack launches a new book set in 1968 Vietnam
- •Kill Tony/Mothership as a chaotic, unvetted comedy showcase
- •David Morrell’s influence and touring together
- •Fans getting crossed-tomahawks tattoos and the weirdness of it
- •Book signing oddities (signing a baby’s shirt)
- 2:21 – 4:06
Writing 1968 authentically: research methods, dictionaries, maps, and mindset
Jack explains why the Vietnam book took longer than expected: he wanted every sentence to feel like it was written from inside 1968, without modern hindsight. That leads to period-specific research choices—like using a 1969 dictionary and era-accurate materials—to recreate how people spoke, thought, and decided in the moment.
- •Avoiding a ‘modern thriller with CCR references’ pasted onto Vietnam
- •Writing through a 1968 lens without 50+ years of hindsight
- •Using a period dictionary rather than modern Google definitions
- •Collecting era maps and reference materials to ground scenes
- •Immersion as a full-time, time-consuming process
- 4:06 – 7:23
Vietnam as America’s disillusionment: Tonkin, domino theory, and a generation scarred
Joe contrasts WWII’s moral clarity with Vietnam’s confusion and corruption, framing Vietnam as a national trauma rooted in misinformation and conflicting motives. Jack adds the challenge of portraying what soldiers knew in 1968, while acknowledging the war’s heartbreak and cultural rupture at home.
- •Joe’s framing: WWII ideal vs. Vietnam reality
- •Gulf of Tonkin and the feeling of being drawn into war on false premises
- •1968 as the bloodiest year and why it’s the novel’s setting
- •Domino theory fears viewed from the era’s decision-makers
- •Veterans returning to hostility and cultural upheaval
- 7:23 – 9:01
Televised war and the media’s power: Tet Offensive perception vs. tactical reality
Jack describes Vietnam as the first daily televised war and argues that media coverage shaped public opinion and policy in unprecedented ways. They discuss Tet as a tactical win that became a strategic loss due to how it was reported and absorbed by the American public.
- •Vietnam as the first war experienced daily on television
- •Walter Cronkite-era broadcast influence
- •Reporters’ proximity to Saigon comfort vs. frontline reality
- •Tet Offensive: tactical success reframed as defeat
- •Media realizing it could influence policy, not just report it
- 9:01 – 11:26
Why fiction matters—and why reading is collapsing in the smartphone era
Jack defends fiction as a unique empathy engine that turns abstract numbers into lived experience through characters. The conversation shifts to the steep drop in reading since smartphones and what it means for attention, learning, and culture.
- •Fiction builds empathy differently than non-fiction statistics
- •Stories as ‘borrowed experience’ that shapes character and grit
- •Reading decline correlates with smartphone rise
- •Publishing/film as tougher industries amid distraction and AI
- •Reading as a competitive advantage for young people
- 11:26 – 22:17
AI, copyright, and deepfakes: ‘We’re fucked’ and the coming authenticity crisis
They pivot hard into AI—copyright settlements that barely compensate creators, and the speed of generative tools. Joe and Jack react to AI-generated interviews and voice cloning, debating whether audiences will care about human-made art and whether labeling AI content becomes necessary.
- •Creator compensation vs. massive AI settlements (tiny payouts to authors)
- •Cover-band metaphor vs. AI’s accelerating capability
- •AI-generated ‘interviews’ and voice cloning demonstrations
- •Music disruption and synthetic hits that outperform real artists
- •Need for disclosure/labeling: ‘made by a human’ vs. AI-made art
- 22:17 – 28:40
Making The Terminal List universe: creative freedom, Amazon trust, and season-building risks
Jack shares behind-the-scenes details about filming (Morocco/Africa), casting, and how success buys creative freedom. He explains why longer-form series better preserve a book’s vision than films, and how Amazon’s confidence reduces notes and interference over time.
- •Filming in Morocco/Africa and the scale of production
- •Why episodic TV can honor books better than a 2-hour movie
- •Amazon’s increased trust after season-one performance
- •Character-journey structure and why early episodes are a ‘risk’
- •Casting notes: Arnold Vosloo, Taylor Kitsch, and performance commitment
- 28:40 – 33:08
Stunts, fight realism, and Tom Cruise: the hidden brutality behind action scenes
The discussion turns to stunt performers’ workload and the philosophy of making fights look real rather than ‘John Wick but worse.’ Joe and Jack geek out over Tom Cruise’s extreme stunts and what it takes to capture authenticity on screen.
- •Stunt performers’ physical toll—especially stunt women
- •Designing fights as primal/visceral instead of overly choreographed
- •Balancing plausibility in size-mismatch fights (and online backlash)
- •Tom Cruise’s broken-ankle scene and extreme risk tolerance
- •Authenticity as a selling point in action storytelling
- 33:08 – 40:03
Health vs. deadlines: hanging for spinal decompression, writing obsession, and nootropics
Joe describes daily hanging for back health; Jack admits he cycles between intense fitness and total neglect depending on deadlines. They trade notes on sleep deprivation, supplements (Alpha Brain, creatine), and how creativity pressures can wreck basic balance.
- •Daily hanging as back decompression practice
- •Jack’s ‘all-in’ fitness phase vs. deadline-driven collapse
- •Sleep deprivation during crunch periods and its cognitive cost
- •Nootropics, nicotine myths, and realistic stimulant use in writing/journalism
- •Creatine as a cognitive aid under sleep deprivation (dosage discussion)
- 40:03 – 41:39
Immersion tools for 1968: playlists, manuals, magazines, and avoiding rage feeds
Jack details the total-environment approach he used to live in 1968 while drafting—music playlists, documentaries, SF manuals, and period magazines. He contrasts that with modern social media outrage cycles and says the historical immersion was healthier than today’s algorithmic anger.
- •1968 playlist, Vietnam documentaries, and era reading lists
- •Special Forces manuals and cultural specifics (e.g., Montagnards)
- •National Geographic and contemporary sources from the 50s–60s
- •Studying 1968 U.S. events: JFK/RFK/MLK, elections, broader context
- •Avoiding modern outrage content to stay ‘time-transported’
- 41:39 – 50:46
Analog comfort: Grenadier complaints, Land Cruisers as ‘time machines,’ and old-school reliability
They bond over vehicles and the frustration of modern ‘computer cars.’ Jack explains why he ditched a Grenadier despite loving its ruggedness, and why older Land Cruisers feel more connected, durable, and reliable—especially as proven in Africa.
- •Grenadier strengths vs. annoyances (beeps, screen speedometer, settings resets)
- •Preference for tactile, analog driving over digital interfaces
- •Land Cruiser culture: 60 series, 80 series, restored FJ40
- •Off-road lighting setups and practical mountain needs
- •Africa production crew discovering why Land Cruisers dominate rough terrain
- 50:46 – 1:05:17
Watches as storytelling gear: Seikos, vintage Rolex/Tudor, and MACV-SOG details
The conversation pivots from cars to watches as identity markers and narrative totems. Jack connects specific watches to Vietnam-era units (including MACV-SOG) and explains how wardrobe/gear choices in books and shows convey character transitions from SEAL to CIA-style operator.
- •Seiko ‘Willard’ and Apocalypse Now cultural crossover
- •Collecting MACV-SOG-associated Seikos and a 1968 Submariner
- •Rolex ads shifting from rugged ‘tool’ to luxury branding
- •Tudor Submariners in SEAL history and the ‘supply destroying watches’ rumor
- •Using watches in Dark Wolf to signal character and operational identity
- 1:05:17 – 1:09:39
Audiobooks vs. hardcovers: Ray Porter’s performance and the Kindle tradeoff
Jack says audio dominates his sales, crediting narration quality and the podcast-to-audiobook listening habit. They discuss Ray Porter’s voice-acting range and why Jack still prefers physical books over screens despite Kindle conveniences like syncing.
- •Audiobooks outperforming print for Jack’s titles
- •Ray Porter’s narration skill: accents, women’s voices, character differentiation
- •Audiobooks as a natural extension of podcast consumption
- •WhisperSync-style reading/listening continuity (Kindle + audio)
- •Jack’s preference for physical books after too much screen time
- 1:09:39 – 1:13:00
Charlie Sheen’s life arc: Apocalypse Now, Platoon, sobriety, and meeting him at a game
Jack shares he’s preparing to interview Charlie Sheen and is reading his book to focus on war-film roles and SEAL-related projects. Joe recalls Sheen’s episode and the impossibility of being ‘normal’ after that childhood-to-stardom path, plus the darker realities of drugs then vs. fentanyl now.
- •Jack planning a Charlie Sheen interview centered on war/SEAL films
- •Joe on Sheen’s formative exposure to Apocalypse Now and Platoon fame
- •Drug culture then vs. now (fentanyl contamination and overdose risk)
- •Sheen’s sobriety and improved health
- •Jack’s personal anecdote meeting Charlie and Martin Sheen at a game
- 1:13:00 – 1:18:29
Assassination, reaction culture, and ‘feeling evil’: Charlie Kirk, social media, and performative cruelty
They discuss the shock and trauma of watching an assassination clip and the disturbing number of people celebrating it publicly. Jack describes visceral reactions—online and in-person—and ties it to how technology intensifies exposure, polarization, and moral decay.
- •Joe’s reluctance and regret after seeing the assassination video
- •Jack’s experience hearing the news mid-work and protecting his kids from it
- •Public celebrations of murder (online and in real life) as a cultural warning sign
- •Performative outrage/joy for engagement and tribal belonging
- •Comparing mediated tragedy now vs. older shared events (JFK/Challenger)
- 1:18:29 – 1:40:52
Intuition, elite gatherings, and BUD/S reality: Bohemian Grove, Hell Week attrition, and ‘standards’ debates
Jack talks about learning to trust gut instincts, including odd encounters abroad, and they segue into elite social spaces like Bohemian Grove. The conversation then shifts to BUD/S: why most people quit, what pool comp entails, and how institutions can ‘not lower standards’ while still changing outcomes by granting more chances.
- •Listening to intuition/sixth-sense and experiences in war zones vs. civilian settings
- •Bohemian Grove impressions vs. conspiracy narratives
- •BUD/S attrition rates and where people most often quit
- •Pool comp mechanics: stress, procedures, controlled panic, physical assault elements
- •How standards can be effectively altered by increasing retries rather than changing benchmarks
- 1:40:52 – 2:33:32
Politics, digital ID, immigration, and inside-the-Capitol surrealism: inauguration and Tulsi’s path
They widen to institutional power: digital ID and speech policing in the UK, border policy contradictions, and how politicians’ stances shift with polling. Joe describes the surreal experience of being near presidents at an inauguration, while Jack mentions attending Tulsi Gabbard’s swearing-in and speculates on the realities of bureaucratic warfare inside government.
- •Digital ID as a gateway to social-credit/carbon controls; UK arrests over posts
- •Immigration as policy choice and the chilling effect of speech enforcement
- •Archival clips of Democrats sounding ‘right wing’ in the 90s vs. today’s messaging
- •Joe’s inauguration experience: ritual, proximity to power, and political theater
- •Tulsi’s swearing-in, bureaucratic compartmentalization, and her potential trajectory
