EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,045 words- 0:00 – 2:21
Book tour stories, fan tattoos, and launching a Vietnam-era novel
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) All right, bro. My man. What's happening?
- JCJack Carr
What's up?
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you, my brother.
- JCJack Carr
How are ya? Great to see you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Always great to see you.
- JCJack Carr
S- ah, been so looking forward to this. Been going a thousand miles an hour for, it seems like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Me too, man.
- JCJack Carr
... a long time.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I've, I've been really looking forward to talking to you about this book, 'cause I know-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that you've been obsessed. You've been obsessed by this era in human history.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And tell us about it. Talk-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, yeah. So this is 1968 Vietnam, and, uh, I just launched the book tour, not last night but the night before, 'cause last night was Comedy Mothership, Kill Tony, which was amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Best show in the world.
- JCJack Carr
We had a blast. It was so crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
The best show to go to.
- JCJack Carr
Do they v- vet any of those people, by the way, before they come up?
- JRJoe Rogan
Nope. Yeah, they're insane people-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Didn't look, didn't look like it.
- JRJoe Rogan
... brilliant people, great comics, terrible comics.
- JCJack Carr
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That was fantastic. That's the best show ever.
- JCJack Carr
Oh, my gosh. That was fantastic. But, yeah, I kicked off the book tour with, uh, David Morrell, who, who created Rambo back in 1972 with First Blood.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- JCJack Carr
So that was a huge honor for me. He's been a inspiration to me my whole life. And, uh, wrote a series of books, uh, in the '80s, Brotherhood of the Rose, Fraternity of the Stone, League of Night and Fog, which were just incredible. And, uh, I got to kick off the book tour with him out there. Signed a baby for the first time. I've never signed a baby.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
So, someone brought a baby through and asked me to sign their kid.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- 2:21 – 4:06
Writing 1968 authentically: research methods, dictionaries, maps, and mindset
- JCJack Carr
... but, yeah, the book, 1968 Vietnam, and I thought this was gonna be the bo- the book that was gonna take me the least amount of time, because I thought I had this foundation of knowledge when it comes to warfare, Vietnam in particular, those lessons. Uh, I've had the influence of popular culture when it comes to the '60s and Vietnam as well growing up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
So I thought I was, I was well prepared to dive into this world. And I didn't want to just say that they're listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival, and that it's 1968, and then essentially drop a contemporary thriller into the '60s, into Vietnam 1968.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
Uh, instead I wanted someone who lived through that era to know that I put in the effort. And any sentence had to be written through the lens of 1968 without the benefit of 50 plus years of hindsight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
So, if someone is, you know, 70 years old, 50 years old, 20 years old, they only have their life experience up to that point to, uh, make a decision for perspective on an event. Uh, and that took a lot more time than I thought. I got a dictionary from 1969. Uh, I couldn't find the one from 1968 I wanted, so I got a dictionary from 1969 to look how, at how terms were defined back then. A lot of maps from the era. And it was just a ... took a lot longer, which is why we're here in October and not in Janu- uh, June when the book was supposed to come out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow. So, what ... so when you get a dictionary from 1968, what is the difference?
- JCJack Carr
Well, that's what I wanted to, to find out, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is there a lot of difference?
- JCJack Carr
Uh, I'm sure there is, but I was looking at just spec- some specific terms that I can't even remember what they are right now, but I wanted, I wanted to have it.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you just wanted to look them up through that book.
- JCJack Carr
I didn't want to look up ... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
I didn't want to Google something today.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
I wanted to be doing this research as if I was in the '60s. And so if I needed to look something up, whether it was spelling or whatever else, I wanted to use that instead of, like, asking Google machine. So I just wanted to transport myself back in time. And, uh, yeah, that was (laughs) that was quite the endeavor. I didn't expect at the outset, so.
- 4:06 – 7:23
Vietnam as America’s disillusionment: Tonkin, domino theory, and a generation scarred
- JRJoe Rogan
I feel like this, that war in particular is, uh ... it's like World War II was what we think America is. Vietnam is what America really is.
- JCJack Carr
Ooh. That is a very perceptive insight.
- JRJoe Rogan
So World War II we were fighting evil.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
We were stopping the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
World, World War II was just. Vietnam was fucking nonsense. And it's still, to this day, it, it infuriates people that participated in it. It infuriates people who lost family members. It does ... it didn't make any sense. It was birthed on a lie. It was a complete false flag event that our own government ...
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They, they lied to us and told us that, that the Gulf of Tonkin there was an incident where one of our battleships was attacked, and it wasn't. It was all a lie, and it was just to get us into this fucking war. And there's a whole bunch of people that made a whole bunch of money, and a bunch of people died, and at the end of it everybody felt broken, and during it there was a gigantic cu- cultural revolution-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in the middle of it. That's the real America.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. You know, it's, uh ... it's something that I explore in the book, and with the benefit of hindsight it's certainly more, um, i- i- it's more ... not relevant, but, uh, you, you can, you can draw that out for sure with the benefit of hindsight. And I'm trying to write this thing in 1968 from these guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
So they're having these conversations with only that information, so they don't yet know who's making a ton of money. They're not yet knowing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... about Bell Helicopters and, and all the rest of this stuff. They're not ... they don't really know yet about Gulf of Tonkin, um, they just know that 1968 is the bloodiest year thus far of the war, and it's gonna be the bloodiest year of the war so far, which is why I set it in that year.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many people died that year?
- JCJack Carr
Uh, well, 58- over 58,000 in total.And I forget-
- JRJoe Rogan
(gasps)
- JCJack Carr
... exactly how many for that particular year, but we lost more people that year and had more people wounded than in any other year of the war. But over 58,000 people died in Vietnam, on our side. To say nothing of the Vietnamese, um, and, uh, NVA, Viet Cong, civilians, you know, all put together.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
But certainly a lot more than 58,000. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
And over what?
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, looking back, so I'm trying to look at it (sighs) through the lens of the day, and when you look at that, the domino theory, we look back and say, "Of course the rest of the world wouldn't have fallen to communism." Um, but at the time, I'm trying to put myself into the shoes of the people making these decisions, and, uh, there, at least for Southeast Asia, there was the, the threat of other countries falling. Even if they did, would that have meant anything long-term for the rest of us today? It's, it's hard to say that it would have. But, uh, it, I mean, the whole thing is so, is so heartbreaking. Um, and you're right, when we got back from, from World War II, uh, those guys had parades, they got back to work, they used the GI Bill, they built this country into what it is today. Uh, Vietnam, those guys, it was looked at like they went bankrupt, just like a company going bankrupt. And, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not only that-
- JCJack Carr
... we lost a war.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when they came back they were called baby killers. They were met at the airport by protestors.
- JCJack Carr
They had all that to, to deal with, all that baggage to deal with.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 7:23 – 9:01
Televised war and the media’s power: Tet Offensive perception vs. tactical reality
- JCJack Carr
And, uh, and that left a scar an entire generation. Really, you know, a lot of that started with the Kennedy assassination in 1963, and then we move on into the war, and this becomes the first televised war.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
So there were photographs of the Civil War, um, there's, uh, photographs, uh, World War I, World War II, we're getting the newsreels when you go to the movies on Saturday and see the matinee-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... and you're getting those. But that's a very different type of way to get your news.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sniffs)
- JCJack Carr
Uh, because you're seeing it once a week, or you're seeing a still photograph in a paper. Uh, then we get to Vietnam, and now you're seeing it every day on the news. You're seeing Walter Cronkite there give you that news, and you're watching these guys in foxholes, and you're seeing this shooting, and you're seeing this chaos. And then also the media, I think this is the first time where the media realizes they have not... they're not just a, a pillar as a check on government. They realize at this point that they actually have power to influence events and policy. So how they report from Vietnam, very different from how reporters, even in Korea, but let's stay in World War II, very different from how reporters, uh, r- reported on that war. And now I think in Vietnam, you have these guys in Saigon, and they reali- and they're staying at these amazing hotels, and they're partying it up at night, and some of them are going to the outskirts of town so it looks like they're out in the rice paddies or whatever, and then they're going back to their hotel for, for drinks. But they realize during this time that they can influence policy, and so that's what we see with the Tet Offensive. We see that as a complete, it's a complete tactical win for the United States, but it becomes a loss for us, a huge strategic loss for us because of the way that it's reported.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
And the, uh, the media is involved in that. So, which they didn't know before with that.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what was the issue? The media distorted what was going on?
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. The media, media distorted what was, what was going on, and, uh, and talked about this huge victory for the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- 9:01 – 11:26
Why fiction matters—and why reading is collapsing in the smartphone era
- JCJack Carr
... uh, for the NVA, and, uh, for, for North Vietnam, and it wasn't really, but it was when they reported it that way. And then we see more of America turning against this war, and, uh, and, and policy shifts, and more people shipped into Vietnam. So it's, uh ... I mean, it's, the whole thing is so, is so sad, and I try to humanize it and personalize it in this book, because you can read about ... I think it's the importance of reading fiction also, because you're, you can, uh, you get a compassion there, uh, and an empathy for people 'cause you're living something through their eyes, even though it's fiction-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... uh, that you don't get really through, through non-fiction. You can read about all these numbers, you can read about 58,000, but when you read a story like this, uh, then you're getting to know these characters and you're going through this thing with them, and that, then it becomes part of your experience. Uh, so even, say, let's say Bud's going through, going through SEAL training. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking back to Normandy and I'm thinking back to, to, uh, to Iwo Jima. I'm thinking back to Vietnam and what these guys had to go through, and then I'm realizing, "Oh, I can do a few more pushups in the sand here in Coronado, California-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... while those guys died and sacrificed so much so that I could be here." But some of that comes through the, uh, works of fiction too, the thrillers that I was reading growing up from guys who had backgrounds in Vietnam or just from things they were dealing with in contemporary thrillers of the day. But that became part of my experience, and I didn't have to, uh ... and it, it's almost like you're living it even though it's all made up. So, uh, that's the important of, important of reading in general. And (laughs) speaking of reading, when we go, when we look at 2003 to 2025 and the drop-off in reading that has occurred, that is scary.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is y- do you think that's because of the internet?
- JCJack Carr
Oh, yeah. I mean, it qui- uh, it corresponds, uh, almost directly with the rise of the smartphone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJack Carr
Uh, and, uh, and of course it continues to drop today. So I think I'm getting into publishing and Hollywood in probably one of the worst times-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
... in the last 100 years that one could decide to do something (laughs) like this with AI and all, and all the rest of it. It's, uh, uh, and less people reading and less people. There's no backside to it. There's no box office for movies anymore.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, the worst time to get into it is tomorrow.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, good point. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
The very- I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that-
- JCJack Carr
It's way better-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
... that you already have The Terminal List- Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and The Dark Wolf on TV.
- JCJack Carr
Right, right. Yeah, good point.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you're way better off.
- JCJack Carr
(laughs) Good point.
- JRJoe Rogan
Trying today, they'd be like, "We have no use for scripts."
- JCJack Carr
Oh, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
"We wrote our own ... We wrote 100 scripts in the time it took you to walk up the stairs."
- JCJack Carr
Oh, man. I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. "We put in prompts, 'I want a Vietnam thriller-'"
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... 'involving, uh, a handsome football player-'"
- JCJack Carr
There you go.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... 'that tries to go do the best for his country,-"
- 11:26 – 22:17
AI, copyright, and deepfakes: ‘We’re fucked’ and the coming authenticity crisis
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a thing. I think, um, CAA, my talent agency, just sent me a thing the other day and said that, uh, one of these OpenAI deals, they, I think it was a $1.5 billion settlement or something, and that, that they'd used my books, and I'm sure they've used this podcast. I'm sure they've used all sorts of things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
But, uh, but the settlement out of that for me is possibly $1,000.
- JRJoe Rogan
Congratulations.
- JCJack Carr
And I was, "Oh, thank you." And, uh, I thought, "Well, my attorney's gonna be-"
- JRJoe Rogan
"Where does the rest of that money go?" (laughs)
- JCJack Carr
"... is my attorney only gonna take an hour to do this?" Because that's about, makes it a, uh, you know, uh, a, a net-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a wash.
- JCJack Carr
Exactly. So, uh, but then do you not do it because then they just hold them? I don't know. It's, it's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Take the 1,000.
- JCJack Carr
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Take the 1,000.
- JCJack Carr
But then I have to pay like $6,000 to get the $1,000, so it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you really?
- JCJack Carr
I would think. They're gonna spend-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's hilarious.
- JCJack Carr
I'm sure they're gonna spend like six hours-
- JRJoe Rogan
They can't just give it to you?
- JCJack Carr
I don't think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
I mean, if I even ask the question, the $1,000 is gone.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Just say, "Cut me a check, bitch." (laughs)
- JCJack Carr
It's, I don't think it works that way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, no.
- JCJack Carr
So I don't, so I don't even know. But the AI part is interesting. I was talking to, um ... So I was in Morocco filming, uh, True Believer, yeah, just a-... couple weeks ago. So we finished up filming out there with-
- JRJoe Rogan
Nice.
- JCJack Carr
... Pratt and everybody. It was amazing. And, uh, and yep, from Morocco you fly through France on the way home. So I stopped in Paris for a few days, met my wife out there, met some other friends out there. Went to a bunch of dinners and things like that. But one of them's a guy named Rick Rosenfield. He started California Pizza Kitchen back in 1985. And, uh, they were gonna put one in one of the Wynn hotels in Vegas. And, uh, we were talking about AI, and that's how this, this plays in here. And he said, he told me this story, and I'll get... This is the general gist. It might be not the exact detail, but the general gist is right. They're gonna put one in to one of the Wynn casinos, and so he goes in there with, uh, with Steve Wynn. And they're walking through and Waylon Jennings is with them. So they're all... There's three, these three guys, Steve Wynn, Rick Rosenfield, and Waylon Jennings. And they go in and, and Steve Wynn says, "Hey, uh, Waylon, we have this cover band. We have this guy that does just your cover tunes. He's a huge fan of yours, and I'd appreciate it if you said, you said hi to him." And Waylon Jennings is like, "Yeah, no problem." So the cover band guy is like Jaylen Wennings or something, let's call him that. I don't know what his real name is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
But, uh, sits down and they're having drinks. And the guy's like, "I, I love, I love all your stuff. Thank you so much. I hope it's okay that, that I'm doing these cover bands, but you're, I just idolize you." And Waylon Jennings is sitting there, he goes, "Oh yeah. No, no problem. Uh, only there is one problem, though, uh, with what you're doing." And the guy's like, "What, what, what?" And he said, "You're always one album behind." And I was like, "Oh." And this guy told me this story in the context of AI and someone using my books to write another book that is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- 22:17 – 28:40
Making The Terminal List universe: creative freedom, Amazon trust, and season-building risks
- JCJack Carr
But it's fun though. It's still fun to create, still fun to do all this. Still fun to be in Morocco-
- JRJoe Rogan
Was-
- JCJack Carr
... doing this stuff and-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's guys like you that are still doing it.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? It's still, it's still doable.
- JCJack Carr
Yep, still doable. That's for sure. But, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's hard to get-
- JCJack Carr
... but the payday's not the same.
- JRJoe Rogan
You did the right way though. You know, you did it on Amazon. They gave you a lot of-
- JCJack Carr
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... creative freedom. You got great people to work with.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the right way. I mean, I'm a big fan of the Gray Man series.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think he does ... Uh, he's a great writer, but his stuff is so much more violent and gritty-
- JCJack Carr
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... than what was portrayed in the film.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The film glossed it up and, you know, and made it a little pretty.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Right. And that's what happens for the most part. It's, uh, like Carl Sagan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Made in Hollywood.
- JCJack Carr
Did you see A Bad Monkey with, uh, with, uh, Vince Vaughn?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JCJack Carr
It's on, it's on Apple and, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
What is it?
- JCJack Carr
... he's a, a cop that's, uh, kinda down on his luck and he's, uh, he's on suspension or whatever, and, uh, he lives in the Keys so it has that whole Keys vibe, and they film it down there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
And so you recognize, if you've been there, you recognize all these places, but, uh, Carl Sagan's the author and he, he ha- he has, he has this, uh, he's very unique style. But what he says about Hollywood is he drives to the border of California, he throws his book over the border, they throw a bunch of money back at him, and he drives back to, back to Florida, and that's how (laughs) can- and whatever happens, happens.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 28:40 – 33:08
Stunts, fight realism, and Tom Cruise: the hidden brutality behind action scenes
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. So that, that's fun to do that stuff. But Taylor had to run through this, uh, cobblestone, these cobblestone streets through this tunnel, uh, and that's the one where I get stitched up and, and fall over. So I get a little stunt man pay out of that. That might, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Nice.
- JCJack Carr
... not quite a, not quite $1,000 I don't think for tak- taking that big fall.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Bro, nobody works harder than stunt men.
- JCJack Carr
Seriously, those guys and girls-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... take a frigging beating.
- JRJoe Rogan
They take a fucking beating. They really do.
- JCJack Carr
He's got, uh, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's horrible.
- JCJack Carr
... episode five maybe, maybe six. There's a, there's a, um, uh, with, uh, this guy and the big, big dude, um, and, uh, and one of the girls in the show get into this, this, uh, fight in this apartment. I don't know if you saw that, that episode, but the stunt person who got thrown into this refrigerator, oh my God. It was, and there was, like, a tiny little pad in the refrigerator, and she just gets thrown into this thing. And, uh, we try to keep every of the fights realistic. So we made a very, uh, deliberate decision at the beginning of The Terminal List not to do the John Wick style.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
Because you just don't want to do John Wick style, but not as good. You know, you want to have everything authentic and realistic and then have this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... choreographed, uh, fight sequence that everyone, that looks visually stunning, but is not really-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... uh, realistic for anybody who's ever been in a, a fight or watched UFC or anything like that. Um, so, we, so we wanted to make sure that these things are, are, are primal, visceral, and, uh, just physical and brutal. And, uh, but it's this smaller girl against this huge guy, so we didn't want to have the, like the girl power thing and all of a sudden people roll their eyes and say, you know, "One punch from this guy and she's done." Uh, so she shoots him, like, three times before the fight as he's rushing in on her. So, okay-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- JCJack Carr
... we're gonna, we're gonna, uh, we're gonna even this out. And still some people got upset about it online. They're like, "How could she, uh, you know, how could she, you know, best this guy in a fight? He's huge." And well, because she shot him three times and then a fourth time in the middle of the fight, and she takes a beating. And, but the stunt, the stunt lady who did this was amazing, and she, she took a beating too, especially when she got thrown into that fridge. It was incredible.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, especially stunt women.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's even harder.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Yeah, that was... And it's hard to watch-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
... because you're talking to them, and then they go on set and do their thing, and you're like, "Oh." But you feel like you know them now-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... so you feel like you just know this person that's now getting beat up, and you're watching from that video village, and you're like, "Oh," Just cringing seeing this stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
Uh, but it's good. It came out, it came out fantastic.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's why guys like Tom Cruise are so nuts.
- 33:08 – 40:03
Health vs. deadlines: hanging for spinal decompression, writing obsession, and nootropics
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, do you know how hard it is to hang? I, I-
- JCJack Carr
Just don't hang.
- JRJoe Rogan
I do it every day. I do a minute and 30 seconds every day. I've decided-
- JCJack Carr
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to try this- Yup. ... to see, like, what it does, like-
- JCJack Carr
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for my back. Like-
- JCJack Carr
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause it decompresses your back. And I've heard-
- JCJack Carr
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that if you just do it every day, it's like a life changer.
- JCJack Carr
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I'm like, "Okay." So I'm like 10 days in now.
- JCJack Carr
Nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
10 days of every day, minute 30-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... I hang. At that minute and 20, I gotta check the phone. Like-
- JCJack Carr
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... "Fuck."
- JCJack Carr
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was doing the same. So after I was here last time, we took a picture together and I saw it and I'm like, "Oh! Oh, my gosh, I look horrible." I l- I was so out of shape. And, uh, it wasn't the height of my out-of-shapeness, 'cause we, I think we did that in June. By late August, or no, late July, that was bl- six years of not doing anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, man.
- JCJack Carr
We talked about saunas, you know, we talked about-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... all of that. Um, and I'm like, "I've gotta do something."
- JRJoe Rogan
Just writing.
- JCJack Carr
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
He just been writing.
- JCJack Carr
... I've just been writing. It's been so many projects. And I put myself at the bottom of my priority list, uh, and focus on family and writing and then the screenwriting and all the other projects that are out there. And it's, it's, it's amazing. I feel very fortunate for that. But I did get way out of shape, and the worst shape of my life. And it showed in that photo that we took. I'm like, "Oh, look at Joe. He looks in such great shape." I'm like, "F- I g-" So, uh, August 1st or something, I'm like, "All right. I'm in." And, uh, I started doing the hang, of course, and then I have my, I have this outside workout area that's like, um, kind of like Rocky IV style, and, uh, so it's right there in the mountains. And so I'm just start, I'm just all in, getting after it. I'm doing the sauna. We rented a place in town that, uh, that had a, had a sauna to get our kids closer to school for a year, just 'cause we're kind of remote. We're kind of up there and remote. And, uh, so we wanted him to have, our son to have the experience of riding his bike to school and all that stuff, so we rented a house. But it had an amazing sauna in it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
So I was doing that exact, what, 17 minutes and 30 seconds, whatever you're supposed to do. Whatever-
- 40:03 – 41:39
Immersion tools for 1968: playlists, manuals, magazines, and avoiding rage feeds
- JRJoe Rogan
Were you listening to, like, 1968 music back-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... then and, like-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what did... How are you doing it?
- JCJack Carr
I did music. I did a playlist for it, put it on, uh, Spotify. Um, so I was doing that. I was watching the Vietnam documentaries. I was reading everything I could possibly find on Vietnam from the day. Um, these old Army Special Forces manuals that they had before the guys would go over there. Uh, they talked about the Montagnard tribes they were gonna be working with. Uh, for those that are watching or listening, it's like Apocalypse Now, like, the Montagnards-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... like, tribes and all that stuff. So I was doing that. Um, and, uh, then I'll, uh, then I was reading the more modern stuff too. I was reading things from the '70s, '80s. I got, um, National Geographic magazines from the '60s. Uh, I think there's one from the late '50s even. So I was doing everything I possibly could to transport myself back. Um, listened to some history, history podcasts about, uh, JFK, about, uh, uh, about Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, things that were happening here, about the election, Nixon's elections. Everything that was happening in 1968. I was just trying to immerse myself in that world. Um, so then when I sat down to this, I didn't have to do a huge shift and it would be... It was already had this... Uh, I was building on this foundation, whatever foundation I already had as then I sat down in front of the computer to write, rather than-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... watching something here contemporary, getting all upset about something that X is feeding me to keep me enraged. And then, uh, then trying to jump back to 1968 instead.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
I just, like, transported myself back there for, uh, it felt like months at a time. Uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
That's probably healthier anyway.
- JCJack Carr
I think it's m- much healthier.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
Much (laughs) m- I think so. I think it was, uh, a much healthier way to live in general. So, uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, just live in the past, folks. (laughs)
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Today's too fucking confusing.
- JCJack Carr
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just go live in the past.
- JCJack Carr
I mean, I've, I'd love to go back. I, I know I can't though. But, uh, but I still try to go back through my vehicles, through movies, through things like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- 41:39 – 50:46
Analog comfort: Grenadier complaints, Land Cruisers as ‘time machines,’ and old-school reliability
- JCJack Carr
Um, I did. I, I tried to get two modern vehicles. Had to turn them back in.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know you were telling me-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you got a Grenadier.
- JCJack Carr
I did a Grenadier and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... and I was so excited to get it. I think I was the first person in Utah to get one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
At least they told me I was anyway. And I got this thing, I was so excited. And this is not a hit on, on, you know, just Grenadiers. This is a hit on me not being able to adapt to a, uh, to the, to the current times.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a great vehicle. I, I-
- JCJack Carr
It's a, it was fast.
- JRJoe Rogan
They let me borrow one for a few months.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a gr- if you're looking for an off-road vehicle that's, like, fully outfitted from the factory-
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you could do no better.
- JCJack Carr
It was awesome. I mean, it, uh, I did... Of course, I put every possible thing you could put on there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
So I'm like, "I don't have time." I'm like, "What, uh, just put everything on that for me."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
"Just do the whole thing." And so they did. And, uh, it showed up. I was so excited for it. And then it started beeping at me, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- JCJack Carr
And it was... I'm like, "Agh, uh, that, that's my complaint."
- JRJoe Rogan
Just, "Son."
- JCJack Carr
It beeps when you go-
- JRJoe Rogan
It beeps.
- JCJack Carr
... go one mile an hour-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJack Carr
... just a few miles an hour over the speed limit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- 50:46 – 1:05:17
Watches as storytelling gear: Seikos, vintage Rolex/Tudor, and MACV-SOG details
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, yeah. S- same thing, it's like the Seiko, is that a Seiko?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
Nice. It's like they said-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the Willard.
- JCJack Carr
... that's the Toyota of watches, nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the Willard.
- JCJack Carr
I love it.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the one that Captain Willard wore in Apocalypse Now.
- JCJack Carr
Nice. Absolutely, which I think came out-
- JRJoe Rogan
I have an original.
- JCJack Carr
I do, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have an original.
- JCJack Carr
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Out of 1971, I think it is.
- JCJack Carr
Oh, nice, okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
'70 or '71.
- JCJack Carr
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, I collected all the, uh, the SOG Seikos-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, nice.
- JCJack Carr
... 'cause this is MACV-SOG, so I collected all those. There's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
I think there's four of them that, uh, that they've, uh, they've seen pictures of MACV-SOG guys wearing going into Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam, which is what the book is, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
... is focused on. So not only did I try to transport myself back by listening to all these things, but I had the watch right there. Like, this is a 1968, uh, Rolex, like, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, nice.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, so I got that thing, the Submariner. So I surrounded myself with things that are-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow, that's cool.
- JCJack Carr
... like, totems from the book. So this is what, uh, Tom Reese... And I have a cool way that he wins this, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
How'd you get a '68... Where'd you find that?
Episode duration: 2:33:32
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