Joe Rogan Experience #2390 - Jack Carr

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) All right, bro. My man. What's happening?

Jack Carr 0:14 What's up?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Good to see you, my brother.

Jack Carr 0:15 How are ya? Great to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Always great to see you.

Jack Carr 0:18 S- ah, been so looking forward to this. Been going a thousand miles an hour for, it seems like-

Joe Rogan 0:21 Me too, man.

Jack Carr 0:22 ... a long time.

Joe Rogan 0:22 And I've, I've been really looking forward to talking to you about this book, 'cause I know-

Jack Carr 0:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:25 ... that you've been obsessed. You've been obsessed by this era in human history.

Jack Carr 0:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 And tell us about it. Talk-

Jack Carr 0:31 Yeah, yeah. So this is 1968 Vietnam, and, uh, I just launched the book tour, not last night but the night before, 'cause last night was Comedy Mothership, Kill Tony, which was amazing.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Best show in the world.

Jack Carr 0:40 We had a blast. It was so crazy.

Joe Rogan 0:41 The best show to go to.

Jack Carr 0:41 Do they v- vet any of those people, by the way, before they come up?

Joe Rogan 0:44 Nope. Yeah, they're insane people-

Jack Carr 0:44 Yeah. Didn't look, didn't look like it.

Joe Rogan 0:45 ... brilliant people, great comics, terrible comics.

Jack Carr 0:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 That was fantastic. That's the best show ever.

Jack Carr 0:50 Oh, my gosh. That was fantastic. But, yeah, I kicked off the book tour with, uh, David Morrell, who, who created Rambo back in 1972 with First Blood.

Joe Rogan 0:56 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 0:56 So that was a huge honor for me. He's been a inspiration to me my whole life. And, uh, wrote a series of books, uh, in the '80s, Brotherhood of the Rose, Fraternity of the Stone, League of Night and Fog, which were just incredible. And, uh, I got to kick off the book tour with him out there. Signed a baby for the first time. I've never signed a baby.

Joe Rogan 1:10 (laughs)

Jack Carr 1:11 So, someone brought a baby through and asked me to sign their kid.

Joe Rogan 1:13 Oh, God.

Jack Carr 1:13 I was like, "Uh."

Joe Rogan 1:13 That seems wrong.

Jack Carr 1:14 It does. And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:16 Yeah.

Jack Carr 1:16 ... then I realized they just wanted me to sign the shirt on the baby-

Joe Rogan 1:18 Okay.

Jack Carr 1:18 ... which is a little better than the actual-

Joe Rogan 1:19 That's fine.

Jack Carr 1:19 ... skin of the baby. So-

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah.

Jack Carr 1:20 Uh, so I did that.

Joe Rogan 1:21 I'd be worried they would tattoo the baby.

Jack Carr 1:22 That was, uh, uh, two new tattoos came through. So I saw two new very large tattoos of crossed tomahawks.

Joe Rogan 1:27 Oh, they had the crossed tomahawks?

Jack Carr 1:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Nice.

Jack Carr 1:28 That's crazy. I mean, you've been ha- had that for a while.

Joe Rogan 1:30 (laughs)

Jack Carr 1:30 You've had people doing that for a while for you. But I remember the first time I got one, I think it was after, I think it was after I was on, or right around the same time of the first time I was on. So, like, 20/20 the first time I saw it and I texted you and sent it.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Ugh.

Jack Carr 1:40 I was like, "Someone tattooed the crossed tomahawks on themselves."

Joe Rogan 1:42 (laughs)

Jack Carr 1:42 And, you know, I'd ... 'cause I knew you've, you've had that with, uh, with you for a while. And if it was weird-

Joe Rogan 1:47 It's weird.

Jack Carr 1:47 ... the first time. Some ... you see it. Like now it's kind of- must be kind of normal 'cause a lot of people have tattoos of you.

Joe Rogan 1:51 It's not normal. (laughs)

Jack Carr 1:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:53 It's not normal.

Jack Carr 1:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55 You know, it's weird.

Jack Carr 1:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56 It's very weird. They'll probably grow to regret them.

Jack Carr 1:59 Never.

Joe Rogan 1:59 (laughs)

Jack Carr 2:00 Never. That doesn't happen with tattoos, does it? No.

Joe Rogan 2:02 (laughs) Not mine.

Jack Carr 2:03 No.

Joe Rogan 2:03 I don't regret mine. I like mine.

Jack Carr 2:04 It's a life story. It's a life story.

Joe Rogan 2:06 Yeah. It's-

Jack Carr 2:06 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 2:06 ... you know, depends on what you got.

Jack Carr 2:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10 You know.

Jack Carr 2:10 And timing, and who ... maybe if you got someone's name on there that's no longer a part of your life. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:14 Yeah.

Jack Carr 2:14 That's a, that's a big one.

Joe Rogan 2:14 Maybe the wife wants you to get that removed. (laughs)

Jack Carr 2:17 (laughs) Perhaps. Perhaps.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Turn it into a snake.

Jack Carr 2:18 I've heard that. Exactly. Exactly. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah.

Jack Carr 2:21 ... but, yeah, the book, 1968 Vietnam, and I thought this was gonna be the bo- the book that was gonna take me the least amount of time, because I thought I had this foundation of knowledge when it comes to warfare, Vietnam in particular, those lessons. Uh, I've had the influence of popular culture when it comes to the '60s and Vietnam as well growing up.

Joe Rogan 2:38 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 2:38 So I thought I was, I was well prepared to dive into this world. And I didn't want to just say that they're listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival, and that it's 1968, and then essentially drop a contemporary thriller into the '60s, into Vietnam 1968.

Joe Rogan 2:51 Right.

Jack Carr 2:51 Uh, instead I wanted someone who lived through that era to know that I put in the effort. And any sentence had to be written through the lens of 1968 without the benefit of 50 plus years of hindsight.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Wow.

Jack Carr 3:01 So, if someone is, you know, 70 years old, 50 years old, 20 years old, they only have their life experience up to that point to, uh, make a decision for perspective on an event. Uh, and that took a lot more time than I thought. I got a dictionary from 1969. Uh, I couldn't find the one from 1968 I wanted, so I got a dictionary from 1969 to look how, at how terms were defined back then. A lot of maps from the era. And it was just a ... took a lot longer, which is why we're here in October and not in Janu- uh, June when the book was supposed to come out.

Joe Rogan 3:31 Oh, wow. So, what ... so when you get a dictionary from 1968, what is the difference?

Jack Carr 3:37 Well, that's what I wanted to, to find out, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:38 Is there a lot of difference?

Jack Carr 3:40 Uh, I'm sure there is, but I was looking at just spec- some specific terms that I can't even remember what they are right now, but I wanted, I wanted to have it.

Joe Rogan 3:45 And you just wanted to look them up through that book.

Jack Carr 3:47 I didn't want to look up ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah.

Jack Carr 3:48 I didn't want to Google something today.

Joe Rogan 3:50 Right.

Jack Carr 3:50 I wanted to be doing this research as if I was in the '60s. And so if I needed to look something up, whether it was spelling or whatever else, I wanted to use that instead of, like, asking Google machine. So I just wanted to transport myself back in time. And, uh, yeah, that was (laughs) that was quite the endeavor. I didn't expect at the outset, so.

Joe Rogan 4:06 I feel like this, that war in particular is, uh ... it's like World War II was what we think America is. Vietnam is what America really is.

Jack Carr 4:21 Ooh. That is a very perceptive insight.

Joe Rogan 4:25 So World War II we were fighting evil.

Jack Carr 4:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:28 We were stopping the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich.

Jack Carr 4:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:33 World, World War II was just. Vietnam was fucking nonsense. And it's still, to this day, it, it infuriates people that participated in it. It infuriates people who lost family members. It does ... it didn't make any sense. It was birthed on a lie. It was a complete false flag event that our own government ...

Jack Carr 4:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:58 They, they lied to us and told us that, that the Gulf of Tonkin there was an incident where one of our battleships was attacked, and it wasn't. It was all a lie, and it was just to get us into this fucking war. And there's a whole bunch of people that made a whole bunch of money, and a bunch of people died, and at the end of it everybody felt broken, and during it there was a gigantic cu- cultural revolution-

Jack Carr 5:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:24 ... in the middle of it. That's the real America.

Jack Carr 5:28 Yeah. You know, it's, uh ... it's something that I explore in the book, and with the benefit of hindsight it's certainly more, um, i- i- it's more ... not relevant, but, uh, you, you can, you can draw that out for sure with the benefit of hindsight. And I'm trying to write this thing in 1968 from these guys.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Right.

Jack Carr 5:47 So they're having these conversations with only that information, so they don't yet know who's making a ton of money. They're not yet knowing-

Joe Rogan 5:53 Right.

Jack Carr 5:53 ... about Bell Helicopters and, and all the rest of this stuff. They're not ... they don't really know yet about Gulf of Tonkin, um, they just know that 1968 is the bloodiest year thus far of the war, and it's gonna be the bloodiest year of the war so far, which is why I set it in that year.

Joe Rogan 6:06 How many people died that year?

Jack Carr 6:07 Uh, well, 58- over 58,000 in total.And I forget-

Joe Rogan 6:11 (gasps)

Jack Carr 6:11 ... exactly how many for that particular year, but we lost more people that year and had more people wounded than in any other year of the war. But over 58,000 people died in Vietnam, on our side. To say nothing of the Vietnamese, um, and, uh, NVA, Viet Cong, civilians, you know, all put together.

Joe Rogan 6:26 Wow.

Jack Carr 6:26 But certainly a lot more than 58,000. Um-

Joe Rogan 6:29 And over what?

Jack Carr 6:30 Yeah, looking back, so I'm trying to look at it (sighs) through the lens of the day, and when you look at that, the domino theory, we look back and say, "Of course the rest of the world wouldn't have fallen to communism." Um, but at the time, I'm trying to put myself into the shoes of the people making these decisions, and, uh, there, at least for Southeast Asia, there was the, the threat of other countries falling. Even if they did, would that have meant anything long-term for the rest of us today? It's, it's hard to say that it would have. But, uh, it, I mean, the whole thing is so, is so heartbreaking. Um, and you're right, when we got back from, from World War II, uh, those guys had parades, they got back to work, they used the GI Bill, they built this country into what it is today. Uh, Vietnam, those guys, it was looked at like they went bankrupt, just like a company going bankrupt. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 7:14 Not only that-

Jack Carr 7:15 ... we lost a war.

Joe Rogan 7:15 ... when they came back they were called baby killers. They were met at the airport by protestors.

Jack Carr 7:20 They had all that to, to deal with, all that baggage to deal with.

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yeah.

Jack Carr 7:23 And, uh, and that left a scar an entire generation. Really, you know, a lot of that started with the Kennedy assassination in 1963, and then we move on into the war, and this becomes the first televised war.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Wow.

Jack Carr 7:33 So there were photographs of the Civil War, um, there's, uh, photographs, uh, World War I, World War II, we're getting the newsreels when you go to the movies on Saturday and see the matinee-

Joe Rogan 7:41 Right.

Jack Carr 7:41 ... and you're getting those. But that's a very different type of way to get your news.

Joe Rogan 7:45 (sniffs)

Jack Carr 7:45 Uh, because you're seeing it once a week, or you're seeing a still photograph in a paper. Uh, then we get to Vietnam, and now you're seeing it every day on the news. You're seeing Walter Cronkite there give you that news, and you're watching these guys in foxholes, and you're seeing this shooting, and you're seeing this chaos. And then also the media, I think this is the first time where the media realizes they have not... they're not just a, a pillar as a check on government. They realize at this point that they actually have power to influence events and policy. So how they report from Vietnam, very different from how reporters, even in Korea, but let's stay in World War II, very different from how reporters, uh, r- reported on that war. And now I think in Vietnam, you have these guys in Saigon, and they reali- and they're staying at these amazing hotels, and they're partying it up at night, and some of them are going to the outskirts of town so it looks like they're out in the rice paddies or whatever, and then they're going back to their hotel for, for drinks. But they realize during this time that they can influence policy, and so that's what we see with the Tet Offensive. We see that as a complete, it's a complete tactical win for the United States, but it becomes a loss for us, a huge strategic loss for us because of the way that it's reported.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Wow.

Jack Carr 8:48 And the, uh, the media is involved in that. So, which they didn't know before with that.

Joe Rogan 8:52 So what was the issue? The media distorted what was going on?

Jack Carr 8:55 Yeah. The media, media distorted what was, what was going on, and, uh, and talked about this huge victory for the-

Joe Rogan 9:01 Uh-huh.

Jack Carr 9:01 ... uh, for the NVA, and, uh, for, for North Vietnam, and it wasn't really, but it was when they reported it that way. And then we see more of America turning against this war, and, uh, and, and policy shifts, and more people shipped into Vietnam. So it's, uh ... I mean, it's, the whole thing is so, is so sad, and I try to humanize it and personalize it in this book, because you can read about ... I think it's the importance of reading fiction also, because you're, you can, uh, you get a compassion there, uh, and an empathy for people 'cause you're living something through their eyes, even though it's fiction-

Joe Rogan 9:33 Right.

Jack Carr 9:33 ... uh, that you don't get really through, through non-fiction. You can read about all these numbers, you can read about 58,000, but when you read a story like this, uh, then you're getting to know these characters and you're going through this thing with them, and that, then it becomes part of your experience. Uh, so even, say, let's say Bud's going through, going through SEAL training. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking back to Normandy and I'm thinking back to, to, uh, to Iwo Jima. I'm thinking back to Vietnam and what these guys had to go through, and then I'm realizing, "Oh, I can do a few more pushups in the sand here in Coronado, California-

Joe Rogan 10:01 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 10:01 ... while those guys died and sacrificed so much so that I could be here." But some of that comes through the, uh, works of fiction too, the thrillers that I was reading growing up from guys who had backgrounds in Vietnam or just from things they were dealing with in contemporary thrillers of the day. But that became part of my experience, and I didn't have to, uh ... and it, it's almost like you're living it even though it's all made up. So, uh, that's the important of, important of reading in general. And (laughs) speaking of reading, when we go, when we look at 2003 to 2025 and the drop-off in reading that has occurred, that is scary.

Joe Rogan 10:31 Is y- do you think that's because of the internet?

Jack Carr 10:33 Oh, yeah. I mean, it qui- uh, it corresponds, uh, almost directly with the rise of the smartphone.

Joe Rogan 10:38 Mm.

Jack Carr 10:39 Uh, and, uh, and of course it continues to drop today. So I think I'm getting into publishing and Hollywood in probably one of the worst times-

Joe Rogan 10:44 (laughs)

Jack Carr 10:44 ... in the last 100 years that one could decide to do something (laughs) like this with AI and all, and all the rest of it. It's, uh, uh, and less people reading and less people. There's no backside to it. There's no box office for movies anymore.

Joe Rogan 10:54 No, the worst time to get into it is tomorrow.

Jack Carr 10:57 Yeah, good point. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:58 The very- I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that-

Jack Carr 10:59 It's way better-

Joe Rogan 11:00 (laughs)

Jack Carr 11:00 ... that you already have The Terminal List- Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:02 ... and The Dark Wolf on TV.

Jack Carr 11:03 Right, right. Yeah, good point.

Joe Rogan 11:04 Yeah, you're way better off.

Jack Carr 11:06 (laughs) Good point.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Trying today, they'd be like, "We have no use for scripts."

Jack Carr 11:09 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 11:09 "We wrote our own ... We wrote 100 scripts in the time it took you to walk up the stairs."

Jack Carr 11:13 Oh, man. I know.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Yeah. "We put in prompts, 'I want a Vietnam thriller-'"

Jack Carr 11:17 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 11:18 "... 'involving, uh, a handsome football player-'"

Jack Carr 11:20 There you go.

Joe Rogan 11:20 "... 'that tries to go do the best for his country,-"

Jack Carr 11:22 Sure.

Joe Rogan 11:22 "... but realizes, like Pat Tillman-style, gets disillusioned when he gets there.'"

Jack Carr 11:26 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a thing. I think, um, CAA, my talent agency, just sent me a thing the other day and said that, uh, one of these OpenAI deals, they, I think it was a $1.5 billion settlement or something, and that, that they'd used my books, and I'm sure they've used this podcast. I'm sure they've used all sorts of things.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 11:41 But, uh, but the settlement out of that for me is possibly $1,000.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Congratulations.

Jack Carr 11:46 And I was, "Oh, thank you." And, uh, I thought, "Well, my attorney's gonna be-"

Joe Rogan 11:48 "Where does the rest of that money go?" (laughs)

Jack Carr 11:48 "... is my attorney only gonna take an hour to do this?" Because that's about, makes it a, uh, you know, uh, a, a net-

Joe Rogan 11:53 It's a wash.

Jack Carr 11:53 Exactly. So, uh, but then do you not do it because then they just hold them? I don't know. It's, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Take the 1,000.

Jack Carr 12:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:00 Take the 1,000.

Jack Carr 12:00 But then I have to pay like $6,000 to get the $1,000, so it's-

Joe Rogan 12:03 Do you really?

Jack Carr 12:03 I would think. They're gonna spend-

Joe Rogan 12:04 Oh, that's hilarious.

Jack Carr 12:05 I'm sure they're gonna spend like six hours-

Joe Rogan 12:06 They can't just give it to you?

Jack Carr 12:07 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 12:07 (laughs)

Jack Carr 12:08 I mean, if I even ask the question, the $1,000 is gone.

Joe Rogan 12:10 (laughs) Just say, "Cut me a check, bitch." (laughs)

Jack Carr 12:12 It's, I don't think it works that way.

Joe Rogan 12:13 Oh, no.

Jack Carr 12:14 So I don't, so I don't even know. But the AI part is interesting. I was talking to, um ... So I was in Morocco filming, uh, True Believer, yeah, just a-... couple weeks ago. So we finished up filming out there with-

Joe Rogan 12:22 Nice.

Jack Carr 12:22 ... Pratt and everybody. It was amazing. And, uh, and yep, from Morocco you fly through France on the way home. So I stopped in Paris for a few days, met my wife out there, met some other friends out there. Went to a bunch of dinners and things like that. But one of them's a guy named Rick Rosenfield. He started California Pizza Kitchen back in 1985. And, uh, they were gonna put one in one of the Wynn hotels in Vegas. And, uh, we were talking about AI, and that's how this, this plays in here. And he said, he told me this story, and I'll get... This is the general gist. It might be not the exact detail, but the general gist is right. They're gonna put one in to one of the Wynn casinos, and so he goes in there with, uh, with Steve Wynn. And they're walking through and Waylon Jennings is with them. So they're all... There's three, these three guys, Steve Wynn, Rick Rosenfield, and Waylon Jennings. And they go in and, and Steve Wynn says, "Hey, uh, Waylon, we have this cover band. We have this guy that does just your cover tunes. He's a huge fan of yours, and I'd appreciate it if you said, you said hi to him." And Waylon Jennings is like, "Yeah, no problem." So the cover band guy is like Jaylen Wennings or something, let's call him that. I don't know what his real name is.

Joe Rogan 13:17 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 13:17 But, uh, sits down and they're having drinks. And the guy's like, "I, I love, I love all your stuff. Thank you so much. I hope it's okay that, that I'm doing these cover bands, but you're, I just idolize you." And Waylon Jennings is sitting there, he goes, "Oh yeah. No, no problem. Uh, only there is one problem, though, uh, with what you're doing." And the guy's like, "What, what, what?" And he said, "You're always one album behind." And I was like, "Oh." And this guy told me this story in the context of AI and someone using my books to write another book that is-

Joe Rogan 13:42 Hmm.

Jack Carr 13:42 ... has a similar tone, or write this in the style of Jack Carr with some prompts. And I was saying that I was a little concerned about this and just don't know what's going, gonna happen in the future. And he told me that story. And so I'm like, "Oh, that's fantastic. They're always gonna be a book behind." Like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Yeah, but AI's not a cover band. AI's a lot smarter than us. That's the problem.

Jack Carr 14:01 (sighs) God.

Joe Rogan 14:02 The problem is, you know, I don't know if you're paying attention to what it's been doing with music. But like, so Jamie show 'em some of the interviews-

Jack Carr 14:09 Oh, I saw those. Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 14:10 ... some of the interviews that you made. Oh yeah, I saw them. I showed them up there. Uh, lot of people enjoyed that.

Jack Carr 14:13 Yeah, yeah. Those are crazy.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Those are crazy. So people-

Jack Carr 14:15 That, like right here.

Joe Rogan 14:15 Muhammad Ali.

Jack Carr 14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Yeah, on the podcast.

Jack Carr 14:17 Yeah. Michael Jackson.

Joe Rogan 14:18 Yeah. Michael Jackson on the podcast.

Jack Carr 14:20 Elvis.

Joe Rogan 14:20 And it's not, it's not difficult for it to do stuff like that. And so th- We're not talking about a cover band. We're talking about someone that can do something or something that can accomplish a task that human beings can't.

Jack Carr 14:33 Man, now I'm bummed out again. I was all positive a second ago.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah, look at this. Play that.

Jack Carr 14:37 This is so crazy.

Narrator 14:38 This shit is crazy, niggas gotta act like it every day. That mean working with nobody watching, staying humble, but never doubting yourself.

Joe Rogan 14:43 You still carry that mindset now?

Narrator 14:44 Oh, it's in me forever. You don't stop being a champion just because the bell ain't ring. When you sit down like this with a microphone, you can't hide anything. Your breathing, your hesitation. Even your heartbeat comes through. If you try to be some-

Joe Rogan 14:58 That's incredible.

Narrator 14:58 You know, when you grow up with nothing, man-

Jack Carr 14:59 (laughs)

Narrator 14:59 ... you learn quickly you can trust. Every smile, every handshake, your wave. This game is taught to you-

Joe Rogan 15:03 (laughs) That's terrible.

Jack Carr 15:04 They might, they might figure that one out.

Joe Rogan 15:06 That one the other way. Yeah, that one's terrible.

Narrator 15:06 ... but they don't follow through when it helps them.

Joe Rogan 15:07 That's terrible. That's someone else's voice. Man, you ever notice how life sneak up on you like a bill you forgot you had?

Jack Carr 15:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:11 One day you're cool, next day you're like, "Who left this- That's terrible too. (laughs) ... responsibility on my porch?" Stop that.

Jack Carr 15:15 (laughs) But there are some that are good.

Joe Rogan 15:16 That's pop filter, first off. Stop that. Stop that. That's not Richard Pryor's voice.

Narrator 15:19 Steve, you think the whole world is waiting for you to show up, and then you find out the world was busy already. The trick is figuring out how to join in without losing your...

Joe Rogan 15:26 I will say, hearing it through these headphones now- Man. ... you can hear that weird- Yeah. ... tinge. Like that's supposed to be Lee Harvey Oswald. Doesn't really look like him. A little bit, like a- Kind of. ... really young Lee Harvey Oswald. (sniffs) Anyway.

Jack Carr 15:38 Man.

Joe Rogan 15:38 Uh, we're fucked.

Jack Carr 15:39 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 15:40 We're fucked-

Jack Carr 15:40 (groans)

Joe Rogan 15:40 ... bottom line is. And music is really fucked. Like we were playing this, uh, 50 Cent cover.

Jack Carr 15:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:46 They did a song, the song Many Men, but they did it with like a soul singer-

Jack Carr 15:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:50 ... from like the 1950s or 1960s. It's incredible. It's so good. It's like one of my favorite songs. (laughs)

Jack Carr 15:56 Really? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:56 It's not even a real person.

Jack Carr 15:58 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 15:58 It's not even a real person. And it's-

Jack Carr 16:00 And we're aware of it.

Joe Rogan 16:00 ... so good. We were all-

Jack Carr 16:01 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:01 ... in the green room the other night. We're like, "If this guy was a real dude, he would be the biggest star in the world right now."

Jack Carr 16:07 Dude.

Joe Rogan 16:07 'Cause everybody would want to hear him sing.

Jack Carr 16:09 (sighs) I mean, Milli Vanilli just did it a little too early.

Joe Rogan 16:11 Well, Milli Vanilli just lip synced.

Jack Carr 16:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:14 You know, this is a totally different experience. This is like-

Jack Carr 16:17 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 16:17 ... they're gonna create stuff with your voice better than anything you can do.

Jack Carr 16:20 (sighs) It's so brutal. But for the kids, at least we're aware of it.

Joe Rogan 16:23 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 16:23 So we can choose. Maybe we can choose. It's gonna be hard to f- Like some of these things, it's gonna be hard to, to figure out at some point. But I almost think there needs to be... Remember the parental advisories in the '80s they put on CDs and stuff like that back then?

Joe Rogan 16:33 Uh-huh.

Jack Carr 16:33 Like at least you know. Like if I want to go and I want to buy this piece of art right here, and I walk into that store and I love this thing. And I put it in my house and it's there for 10 years, and I show everybody that comes in. But what if that thing is... I don't know that no one actually made that. That was just-

Joe Rogan 16:46 Right.

Jack Carr 16:47 ... a AI made that.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Yeah.

Jack Carr 16:48 And I find out 10 years later. D- What, is that different? Is that a different experience now for me? Do I feel cheated? I don't know, but-

Joe Rogan 16:53 You should feel cheated. (laughs)

Jack Carr 16:54 Yeah. But if you- (laughs) but if you buy it, there has to be a little thing on it, I don't know, that tells you. Then you're aware. And it-

Joe Rogan 16:58 Well, part of what art is, is someone made it.

Jack Carr 17:01 Yeah, I would think.

Joe Rogan 17:01 You know? That's what makes it, it kinda cool.

Jack Carr 17:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:04 You know? If it was made by a computer, it doesn't seem... (sighs) I don't, it doesn't have a piece of a person in it, you know?

Jack Carr 17:09 And are people gonna care, like our kids? Are they gonna care? Uh, that, uh-

Joe Rogan 17:12 I don't know, because I don't care-

Jack Carr 17:13 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 17:13 ... about that song. So I don't know what to say.

Jack Carr 17:15 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 17:15 It's like I don't want to be a hypocrite. But it's, I, I, it's inevitable.

Jack Carr 17:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:19 It's happening.

Jack Carr 17:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Y- you know, you're gonna have to deal with it and adapt. And I think what it means to be a person is going to change.

Jack Carr 17:25 Oh, that's so brutal. And-

Joe Rogan 17:27 Yeah. I, I don't think it's possible to avoid change.

Jack Carr 17:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 And this is the direction that change is going.

Jack Carr 17:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:33 And so, uh, at your essence, like what are you and who are you? You have to p- p- search for that in different ways. And you're probably not gonna be able to search for it the same way through music and books- (sighs) ... if you find out that these music and books weren't actually written by like-minded people. Or is it that the, the lessons and the, the energy, say the energy of the music and the lessons of the books, it is from people? Because what AI's done is they've absorbed all of the art that everyone has ever created ever-

Jack Carr 18:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:07 ... in terms of literature and music and even comedy and whatever.

Jack Carr 18:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:11 And it's combined it together in a style that's completely variable. You can have it like Amy Winehouse, you can make it sound like-

Jack Carr 18:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 ... Biggie Smalls. You can make it sound like anything. But it is all... It's imitating everything that humans have created, and would still, will still affect humans. And maybe inspire us more, and maybe put a premium on-... something that's created by an actual human and not by AI. Maybe it'll become more valuable.

Jack Carr 18:44 Hope so.

Joe Rogan 18:44 Because ... Yeah.

Jack Carr 18:45 Hope so. Put the books on, like, "Hey, this was made by an actual human. No AI was used." I haven't used it yet. I haven't used, uh, ChatGPT or anything like that. I can barely update my Word. That's what I wanna do, like, keep my Word, uh, updated. That's the main thing. But I know a lot of people that are, that are using it and love it-

Joe Rogan 18:58 I use it.

Jack Carr 18:58 ... and now you have a relationship with this thing.

Joe Rogan 19:00 Yeah, I use Perplexity for questions on the show now.

Jack Carr 19:03 Perplexity. Interesting.

Joe Rogan 19:03 It's a sponsor, and so, like, every time we have questions, we'll ... Look, it's a valuable resource. I feel like, uh, especially for someone who does something like this-

Jack Carr 19:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:11 ... it'd be crazy to not use something like that. I don't think it's ... Everyone thinks that change is bad. Everyone's scared of change.

Jack Carr 19:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:17 They were scared of the printing press. They were-

Jack Carr 19:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:19 I mean, people have been scared of the wheel. They were scared-

Jack Carr 19:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:20 ... of the locomotive. People are scared of everything.

Jack Carr 19:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:23 I'm not scared of it. Um, um, I, I'm scared that it could po- potentially fuck up society-

Jack Carr 19:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:29 ... but, uh, I feel like that's just what's gonna happen.

Jack Carr 19:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:32 You know? It's just ... We go through cycles. Go to Rome. Go look around.

Jack Carr 19:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:37 What happened?

Jack Carr 19:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:38 Where did everybody go?

Jack Carr 19:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:39 You know, there's, there's still people living here, but that society-

Jack Carr 19:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:41 ... that built that, that fell apart. Same thing with Athens.

Jack Carr 19:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:45 Same thing with many, many, many places in the world.

Jack Carr 19:48 Societies.

Joe Rogan 19:49 Societies crumble. There's a cycle. We're, we're not immune to that cycle-

Jack Carr 19:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:52 ... because we're aware of it. They're aware of it too.

Jack Carr 19:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:55 They were all aware of crumbling civilizations-

Jack Carr 19:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:57 ... and once great civilizations that had fallen. This episode is brought to you by Visible. You know that one friend who's always the first to know about everything? They've got a dozen tabs open constantly on their phone and in their head? To be that friend, you need wireless that can keep up. Visible is the ultimate wireless hack that lets you live in the know, so you can follow a rabbit hole as long as you want. Get one line wireless with unlimited data, talk, and text for $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Plus, Visible runs on Verizon's 5G network, so you get great coverage and a reliable connection without the premium cost. Ready for wireless that lets you live in the know? Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

Jack Carr 20:52 I think if you learn to, if you learn to think for yourself, you think logically. If you read? Kids today, if they put that, down that phone and just read, that is a superpower. They will get out there and crush. Read, work out, do some MMA, BJJ stuff, do a little boxing, but read?

Joe Rogan 21:09 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 21:09 You are going to ex- uh, just leave everyone else in the dust when it comes to whatever you want to do next in life, out of high school, out of college, whatever it is. Uh, if you have that foundation-

Joe Rogan 21:18 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 21:18 ... then you're one, you're gonna be a more empathetic, compassionate person, but you're gonna have this knowledge base that other people are re- are, are, uh, relying on ChatGPT, whatever it is, uh, their phone, whatever, to do that thinking for them.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Yeah, it's am- amazing how many people just don't consume any non-fiction or fiction. They don't consume anything but, like-

Jack Carr 21:39 That's part of the problem.

Joe Rogan 21:39 ... TikTok and Netflix.

Jack Carr 21:40 Yes. It is, absolutely. It's brutal.

Joe Rogan 21:42 It's kinda nuts.

Jack Carr 21:42 Like, like I said about the, the time, uh, Enter- Enter Publishing, um, if you r- ... I think the g- a great time is the '90s for that, because you had, let's see, Michael Crichton, and then you had John Grisham. Like, every other year-

Joe Rogan 21:53 Hmm.

Jack Carr 21:53 ... there was some Michael Crichton movie and then a John Grisham movie, and they had the best directors, actors of the day, uh, producers of the day. And then people bought books they were still reading back then-

Joe Rogan 22:02 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 22:02 ... because there yet- wasn't yet the internet, there wasn't yet all these other things that distract you. So those guys got to crush. That was like ... I think that was maybe the golden age of being an author, uh, and adapting your stuff to, to film or television, mostly film back then. But those guys got to crush (laughs) and, uh-

Joe Rogan 22:15 Yeah.

Jack Carr 22:15 ... today, not, not as much.

Joe Rogan 22:17 (laughs)

Jack Carr 22:17 But it's fun though. It's still fun to create, still fun to do all this. Still fun to be in Morocco-

Joe Rogan 22:20 Was-

Jack Carr 22:20 ... doing this stuff and-

Joe Rogan 22:21 There's guys like you that are still doing it.

Jack Carr 22:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:23 You know? It's still, it's still doable.

Jack Carr 22:25 Yep, still doable. That's for sure. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 22:27 But it's hard to get-

Jack Carr 22:28 ... but the payday's not the same.

Joe Rogan 22:29 You did the right way though. You know, you did it on Amazon. They gave you a lot of-

Jack Carr 22:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:33 ... creative freedom. You got great people to work with.

Jack Carr 22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:36 That's the right way. I mean, I'm a big fan of the Gray Man series.

Jack Carr 22:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:40 I think he does ... Uh, he's a great writer, but his stuff is so much more violent and gritty-

Jack Carr 22:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:48 ... than what was portrayed in the film.

Jack Carr 22:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:50 The film glossed it up and, you know, and made it a little pretty.

Jack Carr 22:54 Yeah. Right. And that's what happens for the most part. It's, uh, like Carl Sagan.

Joe Rogan 22:57 Made in Hollywood.

Jack Carr 22:57 Did you see A Bad Monkey with, uh, with, uh, Vince Vaughn?

Joe Rogan 23:01 No.

Jack Carr 23:01 It's on, it's on Apple and, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:02 What is it?

Jack Carr 23:03 ... he's a, a cop that's, uh, kinda down on his luck and he's, uh, he's on suspension or whatever, and, uh, he lives in the Keys so it has that whole Keys vibe, and they film it down there.

Joe Rogan 23:12 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 23:12 And so you recognize, if you've been there, you recognize all these places, but, uh, Carl Sagan's the author and he, he ha- he has, he has this, uh, he's very unique style. But what he says about Hollywood is he drives to the border of California, he throws his book over the border, they throw a bunch of money back at him, and he drives back to, back to Florida, and that's how (laughs) can- and whatever happens, happens.

Joe Rogan 23:28 (laughs)

Jack Carr 23:28 You know? It's, uh ... So it's, it's one way to look at it, but most authors aren't involved in their, in their, in, uh, in whatever happens. They like to get rid of that author right away so you're not on set saying, "You ruined my vision."

Joe Rogan 23:38 Yeah.

Jack Carr 23:38 And, uh, so ...

Joe Rogan 23:39 I get that. I c- I get that. But it seems like what you're doing is better because you're involved in it-

Jack Carr 23:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:43 ... and then it reaches your vision, or as close as you're gonna get. You know?

Jack Carr 23:46 You help add value. Yeah, you wanna make it the best show you possibly can. That's the-

Joe Rogan 23:50 Yeah, when I saw The Terminal List, I was like, "This is about as close as you can get and do a TV show." And, you know, and not have it rated, you know, NC-17-

Jack Carr 23:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:59 ... like, super hypergraphic.

Jack Carr 24:01 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:02 But-

Jack Carr 24:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:03 ... you know, it's ... Uh, it's way harder to do that in a movie, uh, to take his book-

Jack Carr 24:08 'Cause you only have an hour and a half, two hours, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:10 Yeah, your books take hours to read.

Jack Carr 24:11 Yeah, and we have seven hours for Dark Wolf, eight hours for, uh, for The Terminal List. We'll have eight hours for True Believer, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:17 That's the way, that's the way to do it.

Jack Carr 24:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:18 Yeah.

Jack Carr 24:18 And that one, uh, it has the hunting stuff in it. So once again, now I think if we'd ... Like, for some reason, if we'd started with that or if I'd started with that as a book, then it would've been much more difficult because Amazon, uh, would've been much more hesitant.

Joe Rogan 24:28 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 24:29 But since we had a success with The Terminal List, now they're taking this risk with us, uh, just like my publisher did. It would've been very easy as a publisher to say, "Hey, just do what you did in that first book. That was successful, so just take that same kinda stuff and just drop it maybe internationally or something like that."

Joe Rogan 24:41 Right.

Jack Carr 24:41 Instead, I had this whole journey across ... In the book, it's the Atlantic. In the show, it's gonna be the Pacific. But c- going across this, this, uh, this journey of violent redemption. He still thinks he's gonna die. Gets to Mozambique, still thinks he's gonna die. Doesn't die yet, and so ... 'Cause he has this tumor and then uses the skills from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with the poaching problem over there. And then the book really ... The actual story kicks off from there, but I thought it was gonna be-... would be disingenuous to the reader to have this character that went through all the things that he went through in The Terminal List, all this traumatic stuff, losing his family, losing his whole troop in Afghanistan, and then all of a sudden he's okay and just out to save the world-

Joe Rogan 25:14 Right.

Jack Carr 25:14 ... in the next book. And, uh, so I had to take him on this journey. And I kind of thought that my au- my editor and publisher would say, "Hey, cut out the first third of this book, and we got something here." Instead, they didn't say any of that, and, uh, they took this risk with me, and it really differentiated that book and me as an author. And now Amazon's doing the same thing. So we have Chris Pratt going across the ocean. He's got this crazy long hair. He lost a ton of weight for this thing. He's, like, battling the storms and his demons and, uh, then gets to Mozambique and same thing, goes through this second episode where he's out there doing this poacher thing, using his skills out there. And we filmed in Africa, so we got this, these amazing just l- s- the landscapes, beautiful. It's probably one of the most beautiful, uh, uh, visions of Africa that I've ever seen on film. It's just incredible.

Joe Rogan 25:53 Wow.

Jack Carr 25:53 And Chris Pratt, Chris is totally into it, of course. And the guy who got to play Rich Hastings, I don't know if we can say his name yet, but, uh, he's, he's awesome. He is so good. And, uh, so he's kind of like the older guy kind of mentoring James Reese along, Chris Pratt, and, uh, and he's a guy's guy. Like, he, uh, I'll say his name, Ar- Arnold Vosloo.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Yeah.

Jack Carr 26:09 And so he's the g- the bad guy from Blood Diamond and, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:11 Oh, nice.

Jack Carr 26:12 ... and, uh, The Mummy, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:13 Oh.

Jack Carr 26:14 ... just such an awesome guy. And he's a guy's, he's like one of us. And so you didn't need to tell him, like, what to do with a rifle. Like, he knew. He knew what to do with that double rifle. He's-

Joe Rogan 26:22 Cool.

Jack Carr 26:22 ... he's not messing around. Yeah. So, uh, so it was so fun to do that. But that is a risk that Amazon's taking is to do those first two episodes, to invest all this money in this thing, where yeah, it has something to do with the development of the character, but not really to do with the rest of the story and him then-

Joe Rogan 26:35 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 26:35 ... saving the world. Uh, but they went along with it, and, uh, and that's, that's because they saw the numbers from the first, from the first season.

Joe Rogan 26:41 Yeah.

Jack Carr 26:41 And they'll never share those numbers with us, but, uh, we know what they are because-

Joe Rogan 26:44 (laughs)

Jack Carr 26:44 ... there have been, like, almost no notes in this one. Like the first one, there was notes constantly.

Joe Rogan 26:48 Ugh.

Jack Carr 26:48 Like, they didn't want Chris to get somebody. They were very, they, they didn't want that to happen, and then we did it anyway, and they, uh, they ended up being on every billboard in LA for the opening month.

Joe Rogan 26:56 (laughs) Of course.

Jack Carr 26:56 Uh, all that. They didn't want the, uh, the secretary of defense to die. They didn't want... So, uh, there was all sorts of things that, uh, that they, they were very nervous about, but they ended up going with us. They ended up trusting us. But now we didn't have to fight for it in the second season or in Dark Wolf because we have that trust.

Joe Rogan 27:09 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:09 So that's, that's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 27:10 That is nice. That's, that's the beautiful thing about a successful series.

Jack Carr 27:14 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:14 They leave you alone like that.

Jack Carr 27:15 Gives you more, gives you more freedom.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Yeah, they're like, "Don't fuck it up."

Jack Carr 27:17 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Instead of, like, "We gotta make it better 'cause it's not a hit." It's, "Don't fuck it up."

Jack Carr 27:20 Exactly, exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:22 Yeah.

Jack Carr 27:22 And we had Taylor, and Taylor was here a couple weeks ago.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Taylor was awesome.

Jack Carr 27:24 Also, what a great guy.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Such a good dude.

Jack Carr 27:26 Exactly, he's so cool.

Joe Rogan 27:27 So, so, so different than, like, that character that he plays in American Primeval is so scary.

Jack Carr 27:33 Oh my gosh, so good.

Joe Rogan 27:34 So good, so realistic. Like, you really believe he's a fucking savage.

Jack Carr 27:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:39 Like, you really believe everything about it, the way he fucks people up, like what he, even what he looks like.

Jack Carr 27:46 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 Like, you talked about how much weight he lost for that. When he takes his clothes off and you see the scars all over his body, like whoa.

Jack Carr 27:52 Yeah, they went through it on that one. And Pete Berg on too.

Joe Rogan 27:54 They went through it.

Jack Carr 27:54 Yeah, Pete Berg was on, was on the series.

Joe Rogan 27:56 Pete Berg's a fucking man.

Jack Carr 27:57 He's awesome.

Joe Rogan 27:57 It's like when you see that, you, like, you believe that guy.

Jack Carr 28:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:01 And like that guy looks like someone who would be living like that back then.

Jack Carr 28:05 Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, uh, and he got beat up on that. He went right from that into our show-

Joe Rogan 28:08 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 28:08 ... where he gets beat up again. And, uh, we had to do this show, this thing in episode four where I have my cameo where I get stitched up the side and get, uh, killed. I got part, to be part of the stunt man deal.

Joe Rogan 28:16 You get killed again?

Jack Carr 28:17 I get killed again. Yeah, I got, I got killed in True Believer too, and it's a good one. It's good. It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 28:20 But are people gonna see that it's you this time?

Jack Carr 28:22 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:22 You gotta give yourself a fake nose. (laughs)

Jack Carr 28:24 Yeah, yeah. It's okay. It's the same. It's kind of like a, gonna be a little, uh, we're kinda making a little thing about the show, like I always die somehow.

Joe Rogan 28:29 Like Stephen King does?

Jack Carr 28:30 Something like that. I don't think he dies in them, though. I think they just kinda do a...

Joe Rogan 28:32 He's been in a bunch of his movies. He doesn't die in his movies.

Jack Carr 28:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:35 It's not Who Killed Kenny?. But-

Jack Carr 28:36 Exactly. So this will be, this will be a little different, our twist on it-

Joe Rogan 28:38 Yeah.

Jack Carr 28:38 ... our, our take on it.

Joe Rogan 28:39 That's awesome.

Jack Carr 28:40 Yeah. So that, that's fun to do that stuff. But Taylor had to run through this, uh, cobblestone, these cobblestone streets through this tunnel, uh, and that's the one where I get stitched up and, and fall over. So I get a little stunt man pay out of that. That might, uh-

Joe Rogan 28:51 Nice.

Jack Carr 28:51 ... not quite a, not quite $1,000 I don't think for tak- taking that big fall.

Joe Rogan 28:54 (laughs) Bro, nobody works harder than stunt men.

Jack Carr 28:56 Seriously, those guys and girls-

Joe Rogan 28:58 Yeah.

Jack Carr 28:58 ... take a frigging beating.

Joe Rogan 28:59 They take a fucking beating. They really do.

Jack Carr 29:01 He's got, uh, it's-

Joe Rogan 29:02 It's horrible.

Jack Carr 29:02 ... episode five maybe, maybe six. There's a, there's a, um, uh, with, uh, this guy and the big, big dude, um, and, uh, and one of the girls in the show get into this, this, uh, fight in this apartment. I don't know if you saw that, that episode, but the stunt person who got thrown into this refrigerator, oh my God. It was, and there was, like, a tiny little pad in the refrigerator, and she just gets thrown into this thing. And, uh, we try to keep every of the fights realistic. So we made a very, uh, deliberate decision at the beginning of The Terminal List not to do the John Wick style.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 29:30 Because you just don't want to do John Wick style, but not as good. You know, you want to have everything authentic and realistic and then have this-

Joe Rogan 29:35 Right.

Jack Carr 29:35 ... choreographed, uh, fight sequence that everyone, that looks visually stunning, but is not really-

Joe Rogan 29:40 Right.

Jack Carr 29:40 ... uh, realistic for anybody who's ever been in a, a fight or watched UFC or anything like that. Um, so, we, so we wanted to make sure that these things are, are, are primal, visceral, and, uh, just physical and brutal. And, uh, but it's this smaller girl against this huge guy, so we didn't want to have the, like the girl power thing and all of a sudden people roll their eyes and say, you know, "One punch from this guy and she's done." Uh, so she shoots him, like, three times before the fight as he's rushing in on her. So, okay-

Joe Rogan 30:05 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 30:05 ... we're gonna, we're gonna, uh, we're gonna even this out. And still some people got upset about it online. They're like, "How could she, uh, you know, how could she, you know, best this guy in a fight? He's huge." And well, because she shot him three times and then a fourth time in the middle of the fight, and she takes a beating. And, but the stunt, the stunt lady who did this was amazing, and she, she took a beating too, especially when she got thrown into that fridge. It was incredible.

Joe Rogan 30:24 God, especially stunt women.

Jack Carr 30:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:26 That's even harder.

Jack Carr 30:27 Yeah. Yeah, that was... And it's hard to watch-

Joe Rogan 30:30 (laughs)

Jack Carr 30:30 ... because you're talking to them, and then they go on set and do their thing, and you're like, "Oh." But you feel like you know them now-

Joe Rogan 30:33 Yeah.

Jack Carr 30:33 ... so you feel like you just know this person that's now getting beat up, and you're watching from that video village, and you're like, "Oh," Just cringing seeing this stuff.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Yeah.

Jack Carr 30:40 Uh, but it's good. It came out, it came out fantastic.

Joe Rogan 30:41 That's why guys like Tom Cruise are so nuts.

Jack Carr 30:44 So crazy.

Joe Rogan 30:44 Because he does his own stunts.

Jack Carr 30:45 So crazy.Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan 30:46 He's worth a billion dollars and he jumps off roofs.

Jack Carr 30:49 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 30:49 He jumps from rooftop to rooftop.

Jack Carr 30:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:52 And breaks his fucking ankle. Did you ever see that?

Jack Carr 30:54 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:54 On Mission Impos-

Jack Carr 30:55 Sure.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Shatters-

Jack Carr 30:55 From Fallout?

Joe Rogan 30:56 ... his ankle and then keeps running.

Jack Carr 30:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:58 Keeps running.

Jack Carr 30:59 From Fallout, I think.

Joe Rogan 30:59 You can see the ankle shatter. You see the ankle hit the side-

Jack Carr 31:03 Yup.

Joe Rogan 31:03 And, and-

Jack Carr 31:03 And you can see him hu-

Joe Rogan 31:04 ... you can see it give in.

Jack Carr 31:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:05 You see the ankle give in.

Jack Carr 31:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:07 He'll go, "That ankle's fucked."

Jack Carr 31:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:08 And then he lands on it and he just fucking hobbles off running.

Jack Carr 31:11 Yup.

Joe Rogan 31:11 And save the scene.

Jack Carr 31:12 Yup. I actually watched it-

Joe Rogan 31:13 Fuck.

Jack Carr 31:13 ... on the plane back, 'cause there, we d- did a, uh, uh, my, I got my flight, like, last second, so I was in, uh, economy between two people. And so when I do that, I can't work. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 31:23 Right.

Jack Carr 31:23 ... so on, like, a 10-hour flight, uh, I decided to watch some movies. So I watched Fallout again, just because of that, 'cause I wanted to see if I could tell what was filmed after and what was f- filmed before that sequence.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Right.

Jack Carr 31:32 And it's hard to tell. It's really hard to tell how much they filmed after he shatters his ankle and limps off, 'cause you see him kind of limp off.

Joe Rogan 31:38 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 31:38 But then he's running again.

Joe Rogan 31:39 Yeah.

Jack Carr 31:39 And you're like, "What? How'd he-"

Joe Rogan 31:40 I know.

Jack Carr 31:41 So (laughs) yeah, that's amazing that he does all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 31:42 He probably just got a cortisone shot, tape it up-

Jack Carr 31:45 Tape it up.

Joe Rogan 31:45 ... and just dealt with the pain.

Jack Carr 31:46 Let's go.

Joe Rogan 31:47 I don't get it.

Jack Carr 31:48 Yeah. That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 31:48 He's nuts. He d- he did that one thing where he, he, uh, lit a parachute on fire and then had to pull a second parachute.

Jack Carr 31:55 In the last one.

Joe Rogan 31:56 And it turns out that they did that scene, like, four or five times.

Jack Carr 31:59 Or the jumping off the cliff with the motorcycle.

Joe Rogan 32:01 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:01 That was a-

Joe Rogan 32:01 What the fuck, dude?

Jack Carr 32:02 ... a, all day they did that, maybe multiple days. I don't know, but ...

Joe Rogan 32:04 Oh, my God.

Jack Carr 32:05 That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 32:05 That's so insane.

Jack Carr 32:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:07 Like, what kind of insurance do they have on those movies?

Jack Carr 32:09 I don't think th- I think he does it probably himself. He probably insures it himself. I don't think anybody would, uh, actually insure that. I might be wrong. That's just a guess.

Joe Rogan 32:14 But, like, what a nut.

Jack Carr 32:15 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:16 What if, maybe Scientology works. You know what I'm saying? (laughs)

Jack Carr 32:19 Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:20 I mean, what a fucking nut. No one's like that guy.

Jack Carr 32:23 No.

Joe Rogan 32:23 I mean, there's no one that is that successful that takes, that takes those kind of risks.

Jack Carr 32:28 Yeah. And all the other actors say the same thing. They're like, "Uh, no, that's what the stunt people do."

Joe Rogan 32:31 He's one, one of one.

Jack Carr 32:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:33 You know? He gets in motorcycle races. Like, he's in, he does those scenes.

Jack Carr 32:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:38 He does car chase scenes.

Jack Carr 32:39 It's pretty cool. I mean, uh, it does add a level of authenticity and you go-

Joe Rogan 32:42 100%.

Jack Carr 32:42 ... to it for that. So you can see Tom Cruise doing his own stunts. You know, that's a part of the thing.

Joe Rogan 32:46 He learned how to fly a helicopter.

Jack Carr 32:47 Yeah. Fly the helicopter in that one, two, three of them ago, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 32:50 Fucking-

Jack Carr 32:50 ... that was killer too.

Joe Rogan 32:51 Fucking crazy.

Jack Carr 32:52 Yeah. Yeah. Jumping out with, uh, was it Henry Cavill and him jump out the back of the plane and fall down?

Joe Rogan 32:56 Yeah.

Jack Carr 32:56 And they're, uh ... But yeah, they, he's jumping out of those planes and it's-

Joe Rogan 32:59 Legitimate.

Jack Carr 32:59 ... good for him.

Joe Rogan 33:00 Yeah.

Jack Carr 33:00 There it goes.

Joe Rogan 33:01 He's out of his fucking mind.

Jack Carr 33:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:03 Separated his finger joints or something in this one. Of course he did.

Jack Carr 33:06 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Of course he did.

Jack Carr 33:06 It's fantastic. Let's have-

Joe Rogan 33:08 Dude, do you know how hard it is to hang? I, I-

Jack Carr 33:11 Just don't hang.

Joe Rogan 33:11 I do it every day. I do a minute and 30 seconds every day. I've decided-

Jack Carr 33:15 Yup.

Joe Rogan 33:15 ... to try this- Yup. ... to see, like, what it does, like-

Jack Carr 33:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:18 ... for my back. Like-

Jack Carr 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:19 ... 'cause it decompresses your back. And I've heard-

Jack Carr 33:21 Yup.

Joe Rogan 33:21 ... that if you just do it every day, it's like a life changer.

Jack Carr 33:24 Yup.

Joe Rogan 33:24 So I'm like, "Okay." So I'm like 10 days in now.

Jack Carr 33:27 Nice.

Joe Rogan 33:27 10 days of every day, minute 30-

Jack Carr 33:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:30 ... I hang. At that minute and 20, I gotta check the phone. Like-

Jack Carr 33:33 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:33 ... "Fuck."

Jack Carr 33:34 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was doing the same. So after I was here last time, we took a picture together and I saw it and I'm like, "Oh! Oh, my gosh, I look horrible." I l- I was so out of shape. And, uh, it wasn't the height of my out-of-shapeness, 'cause we, I think we did that in June. By late August, or no, late July, that was bl- six years of not doing anything.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Oh, man.

Jack Carr 33:50 We talked about saunas, you know, we talked about-

Joe Rogan 33:51 Yeah.

Jack Carr 33:51 ... all of that. Um, and I'm like, "I've gotta do something."

Joe Rogan 33:54 Just writing.

Jack Carr 33:54 So-

Joe Rogan 33:54 He just been writing.

Jack Carr 33:55 ... I've just been writing. It's been so many projects. And I put myself at the bottom of my priority list, uh, and focus on family and writing and then the screenwriting and all the other projects that are out there. And it's, it's, it's amazing. I feel very fortunate for that. But I did get way out of shape, and the worst shape of my life. And it showed in that photo that we took. I'm like, "Oh, look at Joe. He looks in such great shape." I'm like, "F- I g-" So, uh, August 1st or something, I'm like, "All right. I'm in." And, uh, I started doing the hang, of course, and then I have my, I have this outside workout area that's like, um, kind of like Rocky IV style, and, uh, so it's right there in the mountains. And so I'm just start, I'm just all in, getting after it. I'm doing the sauna. We rented a place in town that, uh, that had a, had a sauna to get our kids closer to school for a year, just 'cause we're kind of remote. We're kind of up there and remote. And, uh, so we wanted him to have, our son to have the experience of riding his bike to school and all that stuff, so we rented a house. But it had an amazing sauna in it.

Joe Rogan 34:39 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 34:39 So I was doing that exact, what, 17 minutes and 30 seconds, whatever you're supposed to do. Whatever-

Joe Rogan 34:42 (laughs)

Jack Carr 34:42 ... whenever I heard someone on this podcast tell me I was supposed to do, whatever you told me to do, I was doing that.

Joe Rogan 34:46 (laughs)

Jack Carr 34:46 And I was going outside, getting, like, 10 minutes of sun here, 10 minutes of sun there, doing the workouts, doing the cardio stuff, doing, doing all of it. And, uh, I got in great, it's probably one of the best shapes of my life.

Joe Rogan 34:56 Really?

Jack Carr 34:56 And I was feeling so good. I felt like I could just throw people through walls, I was, I was feeling so great. And, uh, and, but I was doing everything. I was doing the, uh, the sun, I was eating right. I was not eating the bread. So I did, I did everything. And then I got to January 1st and I'm out there in the snow. I've dug a path out to my thing in the gym and I'm working out in my outside gym, doing the hangs, all that in the snow. And then I was like, "Oh, I think I had a deadline December 1st, a month ago, for this book." I'm like, "I (laughs) I gotta start writing." So I, I'll stop, I'll stop (laughs) and I haven't done anything since.

Joe Rogan 35:24 Oh, no.

Jack Carr 35:24 So it's only, only writing, only screenwriting, everything. So I haven't found that balance. I need to find that, uh, that balance. I'm not quite there yet.

Joe Rogan 35:30 How many hours do you write a day?

Jack Carr 35:31 Well, as I get closer to the, as I pass these deadlines, I should say, it becomes all-consuming. And it's, uh, especially for something like this when I'm in 1968, I mean, I really felt like I had to transport myself back to that time to write this thing. And, uh, so that was all, as soon as I woke up, bam, I'm in and it is all day long. And, uh, so-

Joe Rogan 35:48 Until you go to sleep.

Jack Carr 35:49 ... and, uh, until I go to sleep, till super late, and then I'm up. Because the kids still get up at the same time. And so I'm up, so I'm maybe an hour of sleep, two hours of sleep, whatever, and then I'm up-

Joe Rogan 35:56 Oh, no.

Jack Carr 35:56 ... out of a cannon and it's going. So it's not, not healthy. Not healthy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:59 No.

Jack Carr 35:59 So I'm gonna get on a better, uh, a better schedule here. Our son's going to a, a boarding school now. Our daughter's in college. We have our middle child with severe special needs, so he's still at home with us. He'll be with us forever. Um, and he's a sweet, sweet little guy. But, uh, but it, that, I think, will give me a little more time to maybe find some balance with the health and the writing.

Joe Rogan 36:16 Right.

Jack Carr 36:16 'Cause I need to do that at some point. But typically, a lot of writers aren't very, especially the older ones, uh, from back in the day, they're not, uh, not the healthiest of individuals.

Joe Rogan 36:23 The opposite.

Jack Carr 36:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:24 I mean, we've talked about it a bunch of times in this podcast, but my favorite Stephen King books were all when he was doing coke.

Jack Carr 36:29 He doesn't even remember writing a couple of them, right?

Joe Rogan 36:31 No. (laughs) If I was his friend, I'd get him to do cocaine. (laughs)

Jack Carr 36:34 I'd get him ... Exa- I tell my publisher that. I'm like, "I feel like I need to, uh, to, to do some of that, uh, just to get this-"

Joe Rogan 36:40 (laughs)

Jack Carr 36:40 "... to get this done. I need to take a turn here."

Joe Rogan 36:43 A lot of guys uses Adderall.

Jack Carr 36:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:44 A lot of writers use Adderall.

Jack Carr 36:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:46 A lot of j- all journalists use Adderall as well.

Jack Carr 36:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:48 And I think also that makes them...... like, a little more impulsive, their work-

Jack Carr 36:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:52 ... gets a little aggressive.

Jack Carr 36:53 Yeah, interesting.

Joe Rogan 36:53 Like, you kinda see, especially journalists, when they get real shitty-

Jack Carr 36:56 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 36:56 ... like, "Oh, he's probably on Adderall."

Jack Carr 36:58 Oh, interesting.

Joe Rogan 36:59 Just, I think it contributes to the culture of journalism in the modern era, with this, uh, sort of, like, really shitty-

Jack Carr 37:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:06 ... uh, attack journalism-

Jack Carr 37:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:07 ... that's become very prevalent. I, I don't think it's a small factor. I think, uh, Adderall consumption has, it plays a fe- a factor in that.

Jack Carr 37:16 It, I, I'm sure it does. I mean, something that changes something.

Joe Rogan 37:18 That and soc- and social media, of course.

Jack Carr 37:19 It changes something.

Joe Rogan 37:20 Yeah, social media certainly. Yeah.

Jack Carr 37:20 Nicotine does it. Nicotine has, uh, has been very helpful for authors, uh, from-

Joe Rogan 37:23 Nicotine's great.

Jack Carr 37:24 ... yeah. Yeah. From what I understand.

Joe Rogan 37:25 Do you do cigars or do you do, like, pouches? What do you do?

Jack Carr 37:28 Don't do anything.

Joe Rogan 37:28 Nothing?

Jack Carr 37:28 Don't do anything.

Joe Rogan 37:29 No nicotine?

Jack Carr 37:29 Coffee, nope. Coffee-

Joe Rogan 37:30 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 37:30 ... and, uh, and coffee, water, red wine, whiskey. Uh, but not too much.

Joe Rogan 37:34 Red wine, whiskey, inspiration.

Jack Carr 37:35 Yeah, but not too much. You know, just a, just a-

Joe Rogan 37:37 Little bit every now and again.

Jack Carr 37:38 Yeah. Yeah, nothing too crazy.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Just to say, "Fuck it."

Jack Carr 37:41 Yeah, just I feel like it, I should be doing something like that. But not, uh, (laughs) not too much. I mean, I have in my... I built a library and then one side of it was a bar, and I never got to touch anything 'cause at, at book signings people bring me a lot of, uh, a lot of whiskey.

Joe Rogan 37:51 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 37:51 And, uh, so I, I have it in my bags or I s- mail it from the road or whatever. And, uh, so I have this whole wall of whiskey, uh, and other stuff too. But I never get to partake in it 'cause I'm always writing. I'm always like, "God, I could pour something but no, I gotta... This is my time. It's quiet. I'm not being interrupted. Go, go, go." Ch, ch, ch, ch, ch. And it's just, uh, it's just all on. So I haven't used any performance enhap- enhancing supplements. I need to do some, like, Alpha Brain or something probably.

Joe Rogan 38:11 That helps.

Jack Carr 38:12 Something like that.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Alpha Brain's great. There's a Alpha Brain Black Label that's a new one that's a stronger version of Alpha Brain.

Jack Carr 38:17 Ah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 I think we have some. I'll give you some when we leave.

Jack Carr 38:19 All right.

Joe Rogan 38:19 We also have Alpha Brain gummies. Do we have any on the table?

Jack Carr 38:22 Oh, nice.

Joe Rogan 38:22 No.

Narrator 38:23 I ate 'em all.

Jack Carr 38:23 Nice. I probably should (laughs) have had that.

Joe Rogan 38:25 I, I eat those things like candy.

Narrator 38:26 Ah.

Joe Rogan 38:26 But, uh, there's a bunch of really good nootropics-

Narrator 38:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:29 ... that you should look into. Another one is, uh, NeuroGum. We have some of that stuff.

Narrator 38:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:33 I like that 'cause, uh, it's just g- it tastes good. It's gum, and it, it gives you a little nootropic boost.

Jack Carr 38:40 But I understand why authors do that stuff.

Joe Rogan 38:41 Creatine is another great one.

Jack Carr 38:43 Yep.

Joe Rogan 38:43 And creatine is really great for people with sleep deprivation.

Jack Carr 38:46 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 38:46 Yes.

Jack Carr 38:46 Yeah, I was using that... So I did some supplements, um, when I started working out again. I, I stopped it when I stopped working out, but, uh, I think I was doing the... Was it Thro- Thorne? Is that the one-

Joe Rogan 38:53 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 38:53 ... that you see on the UFC mat?

Joe Rogan 38:54 Sure, yeah.

Jack Carr 38:54 So I was doing that.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Which are great.

Jack Carr 38:55 Yeah, so I was using that, their creatine and, um, some just, uh, just some vitamins. Just the basic stuff.

Joe Rogan 38:59 You want, like, a lot though.

Jack Carr 39:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:00 Like, people are taking five grams a day. You really want, like, 20 grams a day and, uh, particularly when people are dealing with sleep deprivation.

Jack Carr 39:08 Ah.

Joe Rogan 39:08 It also, for some reason, has, like, pretty great benefits, uh, m- more so even for women, uh, and sleep deprivation. There's been a bunch of different studies-

Jack Carr 39:18 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:18 ... done. But b- in terms of cognitive performance after-

Jack Carr 39:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:20 ... sleep deprivation and reaction time after sleep deprivation-

Jack Carr 39:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:24 ... both of those things fall off.

Jack Carr 39:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 And there's a noticeable rise and improvement with creatine.

Jack Carr 39:30 Yeah, I was doing... I don't think I was taking... I was taking one scoop.

Joe Rogan 39:32 I mean, it's a game changer.

Jack Carr 39:32 Whatever it says on the bottle-

Joe Rogan 39:33 Yeah.

Jack Carr 39:33 Uh, I would take the one scoop, whatever that, whatever that is.

Joe Rogan 39:34 It says fi- I probably bet it's five grams.

Jack Carr 39:36 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:36 I do four of those scoops.

Jack Carr 39:37 Oh, really? (laughs) Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:39 Yeah, yeah.

Jack Carr 39:39 When I get back after this and see myself in our photo today, I will, uh, uh, get back to, uh (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 39:43 (laughs)

Jack Carr 39:43 I'll take, I'll use, I'll use four scoops going forward.

Joe Rogan 39:45 Well, it, it'll definitely make your muscles a little stronger-

Jack Carr 39:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:48 ... and larger. But the reason I'm doing it is not just for that.

Jack Carr 39:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:50 It's for the brain. It's really good-

Jack Carr 39:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:52 ... for the brain.

Jack Carr 39:53 Well, I was getting sleep during that time too, which is why I didn't have a book on time. Uh, one of, one of the reasons. One of, that was going back to 1968 took a lot lo- ton- longer than I thought for this research. And then two, I was getting in shape at the same time, so...

Joe Rogan 40:03 Were you listening to, like, 1968 music back-

Jack Carr 40:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:06 ... then and, like-

Jack Carr 40:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:06 ... what did... How are you doing it?

Jack Carr 40:07 I did music. I did a playlist for it, put it on, uh, Spotify. Um, so I was doing that. I was watching the Vietnam documentaries. I was reading everything I could possibly find on Vietnam from the day. Um, these old Army Special Forces manuals that they had before the guys would go over there. Uh, they talked about the Montagnard tribes they were gonna be working with. Uh, for those that are watching or listening, it's like Apocalypse Now, like, the Montagnards-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 40:28 ... like, tribes and all that stuff. So I was doing that. Um, and, uh, then I'll, uh, then I was reading the more modern stuff too. I was reading things from the '70s, '80s. I got, um, National Geographic magazines from the '60s. Uh, I think there's one from the late '50s even. So I was doing everything I possibly could to transport myself back. Um, listened to some history, history podcasts about, uh, JFK, about, uh, uh, about Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, things that were happening here, about the election, Nixon's elections. Everything that was happening in 1968. I was just trying to immerse myself in that world. Um, so then when I sat down to this, I didn't have to do a huge shift and it would be... It was already had this... Uh, I was building on this foundation, whatever foundation I already had as then I sat down in front of the computer to write, rather than-

Joe Rogan 41:06 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 41:07 ... watching something here contemporary, getting all upset about something that X is feeding me to keep me enraged. And then, uh, then trying to jump back to 1968 instead.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Right.

Jack Carr 41:15 I just, like, transported myself back there for, uh, it felt like months at a time. Uh...

Joe Rogan 41:19 That's probably healthier anyway.

Jack Carr 41:20 I think it's m- much healthier.

Joe Rogan 41:21 (laughs)

Jack Carr 41:21 Much (laughs) m- I think so. I think it was, uh, a much healthier way to live in general. So, uh...

Joe Rogan 41:27 Yeah, just live in the past, folks. (laughs)

Jack Carr 41:29 Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.

Joe Rogan 41:30 Today's too fucking confusing.

Jack Carr 41:32 It is.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Just go live in the past.

Jack Carr 41:33 I mean, I've, I'd love to go back. I, I know I can't though. But, uh, but I still try to go back through my vehicles, through movies, through things like that.

Joe Rogan 41:39 Right. Right.

Jack Carr 41:39 Um, I did. I, I tried to get two modern vehicles. Had to turn them back in.

Joe Rogan 41:43 I know you were telling me-

Jack Carr 41:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:44 ... you got a Grenadier.

Jack Carr 41:45 I did a Grenadier and-

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yeah.

Jack Carr 41:46 ... and I was so excited to get it. I think I was the first person in Utah to get one.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 41:50 At least they told me I was anyway. And I got this thing, I was so excited. And this is not a hit on, on, you know, just Grenadiers. This is a hit on me not being able to adapt to a, uh, to the, to the current times.

Joe Rogan 42:00 It's a great vehicle. I, I-

Jack Carr 42:01 It's a, it was fast.

Joe Rogan 42:02 They let me borrow one for a few months.

Jack Carr 42:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:04 It's a gr- if you're looking for an off-road vehicle that's, like, fully outfitted from the factory-

Jack Carr 42:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 ... you could do no better.

Jack Carr 42:11 It was awesome. I mean, it, uh, I did... Of course, I put every possible thing you could put on there.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Right.

Jack Carr 42:16 So I'm like, "I don't have time." I'm like, "What, uh, just put everything on that for me."

Joe Rogan 42:18 Right.

Jack Carr 42:18 "Just do the whole thing." And so they did. And, uh, it showed up. I was so excited for it. And then it started beeping at me, you know.

Joe Rogan 42:24 Uh-huh.

Jack Carr 42:25 And it was... I'm like, "Agh, uh, that, that's my complaint."

Joe Rogan 42:27 Just, "Son."

Jack Carr 42:27 It beeps when you go-

Joe Rogan 42:28 It beeps.

Jack Carr 42:28 ... go one mile an hour-

Joe Rogan 42:29 Yes.

Jack Carr 42:29 ... just a few miles an hour over the speed limit.

Joe Rogan 42:31 Yes.

Jack Carr 42:32 Um, I don't like that. I don't like where the speedometer is in the da- it's in the-

Joe Rogan 42:37 Yeah.

Jack Carr 42:37 ... screen. Yeah, it takes a little-

Joe Rogan 42:38 So there's no dashboard in front of you.

Jack Carr 42:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:39 There's no, like, speedometer-

Jack Carr 42:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:40 ... tach.

Jack Carr 42:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:41 It's not in front of you. You just see numbers to the right. So you have to look over to the right-

Jack Carr 42:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:45 ... to see how fast you're going, which is why they justify the beep.So it makes you look over to let you know, like, "Oh, look, you're going..." See the beep? "Oh, let me look."

Jack Carr 42:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:54 I don't wanna look to the right at a screen ever if I don't have to.

Jack Carr 42:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:57 I wanna look at it only if I'm following directions-

Jack Carr 43:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:00 ... and that's it.

Jack Carr 43:01 I know.

Joe Rogan 43:01 I want my fucking sp- speedometer right in front of me.

Jack Carr 43:04 I know. It's fast though. Glad you hammered that thing. It was fast. I mean, you have some faster cars than I do.

Joe Rogan 43:08 It's capable. It's capable. And it's really capable off-road. Like if you drive that thing... And it's f- fucking built like a tank.

Jack Carr 43:14 It is like a tank.

Joe Rogan 43:15 If you look at like in... Like, the, the idea was that they copied, uh, a Land Rover Defender, which they definitely did. But if you look at a Land Rover Defender, shut the doors in those things, they feel like shit.

Jack Carr 43:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:25 It feels like it's made of a, a Pepsi can.

Jack Carr 43:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:28 It's amazing. It's... They're, they're aluminum fac-... Those, those are, like, agriculture vehicles. Those are not vehicles for, like, rugged travel.

Jack Carr 43:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:36 That's a G-Wagon. A G-Wagon's like a... That was designed for military applications.

Jack Carr 43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:42 It's a fucking stamped steel... I don't know if it's stamped steel, but whatever, they're steel, heavy fucking doors.

Jack Carr 43:47 It's, it's, it's serious.

Joe Rogan 43:47 When you shut those doors, like ka-chunk.

Jack Carr 43:49 Boom.

Joe Rogan 43:49 And that's how the Grenadier is.

Jack Carr 43:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:51 The Grenadier's like heavy.

Jack Carr 43:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:52 It's, like, thick. It's, like, a very durable vehicle, I feel like. A lot of Aussies love them.

Jack Carr 43:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Because you can kind of just get right from the factory and, you know, a lot of those guys like to go off-road.

Jack Carr 44:02 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:02 And you could get your factory, uh, setting in the back where it's got all the electrical and everything, so you could set up a stove.

Jack Carr 44:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:09 You could set up a, a little refrigerator back there. It's all plugged in, ready to go.

Jack Carr 44:13 Mm-hmm. I love... I mean, I, I love all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 44:15 It's great.

Jack Carr 44:15 And it's, uh... It's like... What do they say? It was like a Defender 110 and a G-Wagon had a baby for the Grenadier?

Joe Rogan 44:21 Right. I would say that's what it is.

Jack Carr 44:21 And that's kind of... Yeah, that's, that's kind of true.

Joe Rogan 44:23 So it's like the sides where you can put all the-

Jack Carr 44:25 Jerry cans, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:25 ... jerry cans and everything. It's all set up-

Jack Carr 44:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:27 ... to mount the stuff on it right away.

Jack Carr 44:28 Yeah. I got it all set up, man. I was so excited.

Joe Rogan 44:30 Pretty dope.

Jack Carr 44:30 And then I called them, I was like, "Hey, can I get rid of this click?" And they said, "Yeah." And they walked me through the thing, and I... Whatever. I... This is what... I don't wanna have an iPad. I, I... There's... I just want a car.

Joe Rogan 44:39 Right.

Jack Carr 44:39 I don't wanna drive a computer.

Joe Rogan 44:40 Right.

Jack Carr 44:40 And so I'm in there, I turn it off, and then I, I'm like, "Oh, thank you so much." I'm driving, I'm like, "Oh, it's not doing the clicking anymore." I stop, I get out, I go in and do something, I get back in the car. Immediately, it's back on again. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

Joe Rogan 44:51 No.

Jack Carr 44:51 I'm like, "Sodha." I'm like, "We're getting rid of this." I'm like... I told my wife, I'm like, "Get... Let's get rid of this thing." But it is awesome.

Joe Rogan 44:56 Well, you're a old Land Cruiser guy.

Jack Carr 44:57 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:58 The problem is, those cars have a charm.

Jack Carr 45:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:01 There's a charm to those old Land Cruisers, especially the one that you have, the 60 series.

Jack Carr 45:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:05 Like, if you drive one of those things, man, it's like, that f- feels like you're involved in every part of the driving.

Jack Carr 45:12 It is. I love that.

Joe Rogan 45:13 You feel the steering and the-

Jack Carr 45:14 It's my time machine.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Yeah. It's like... (imitates engine revving)

Jack Carr 45:18 I love it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:18 And you have a V8 in it too, which is like... So you got modern power.

Jack Carr 45:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:22 LS V8.

Jack Carr 45:23 Yep. LS3's in there, so that's nice.

Joe Rogan 45:25 And it's still... But that has thick doors too. Much thicker than the '80s.

Jack Carr 45:29 Yeah. And I do have an 80.

Joe Rogan 45:29 I don't know about much theater, but... Much thicker, but thicker.

Jack Carr 45:32 I like the 80 series. I have two 80 series now, both stock, uh, 96. And I love those, because they're just modern enough, but they're-

Joe Rogan 45:38 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 45:38 They need someone to do a little work on them. They make some strange noises, but they, they work. But they, uh... My, my son, like, picked him up in school in it, and he's like, "Oh, dad," because it's still making this crazy... It's almost like it's the, it's going over the speed limit thing, but it's constant. So it's still...

Joe Rogan 45:50 Some of them are at fucking hundreds of thousands of miles.

Jack Carr 45:53 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. These have over 100, uh, both of them. But, uh... So I love that. And I have a 78 FJ40 that I love. Um, so that's pretty... I love that one. And it's, uh... It's all completely restored, so it's all, all original for the most part.

Joe Rogan 46:04 That's... It's all original?

Jack Carr 46:04 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 46:05 It's fun getting on the highway with that thing, isn't it?

Jack Carr 46:07 Yeah, you go about 40 miles an hour tops. Tops. I mean, you're in that slow lane.

Joe Rogan 46:10 (laughs) That's so slow.

Jack Carr 46:11 Yeah, it's so slow.

Joe Rogan 46:12 It's so slow.

Jack Carr 46:12 But it's cool for zipping around town. I love that. And then I get-

Joe Rogan 46:14 You should get an icon to make you one of those.

Jack Carr 46:16 I know, it's on the list. It's on the list.

Joe Rogan 46:17 Get them to make you one of them beasts that they make.

Jack Carr 46:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Because they, they make them with the giant V8s in them.

Jack Carr 46:23 Yeah, they do some serious work.

Joe Rogan 46:24 That's fun.

Jack Carr 46:24 Yeah. So I, I think I'm a Land Cruiser guy, and I tested out the Enos, didn't work out for me, but that's not to say that they won't work out for someone else. They're awesome vehicles. And if you're a modern person-

Joe Rogan 46:32 It's a great vehicle.

Jack Carr 46:32 ... get one, for sure.

Joe Rogan 46:33 Yeah, if you're into that style of, like, Defender-looking car, but you don't want all the bullshit that comes with owning a Defender-

Jack Carr 46:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:40 ... either get a refurbished one, like East Coast Defenders does a great job. They'll put a big engine in it and do it all right, but...

Jack Carr 46:45 Yeah, there's a bunch of them now that do that.

Joe Rogan 46:47 But the Grenadier is a great solution. I think they're going to come out with a new one, um, that has, uh, a, a more horsepower and they'll probably improve some things.

Jack Carr 46:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:54 But I would like them just give me a fucking dashboard.

Jack Carr 46:57 Yeah. That's it.

Joe Rogan 46:57 Is that so hard?

Jack Carr 46:58 I mean, they're doing everything else old school.

Joe Rogan 46:59 You have all these buttons and everything is all fucking... All old school looking like a jet fighter pilot.

Jack Carr 47:05 I know. Yeah. It looks great.

Joe Rogan 47:05 With all the locking differential in it.

Jack Carr 47:06 I know.

Joe Rogan 47:07 Give me a fucking speedometer.

Jack Carr 47:08 I know.

Joe Rogan 47:08 Just a regular speedometer, and tach.

Jack Carr 47:11 That's it.

Joe Rogan 47:11 Put it right in front of me. Thank you.

Jack Carr 47:12 That's it. And also make the lights so that, uh, the auxiliary lights will turn on when it's not in the off-road mode. If... I don't know if you tried that, but they're the auxiliary lights. They, uh... Except for the light bar on the top, but the other ones in the front, like you have to be in off-road mode for some legal reason. So you have to... I mean, sure someone can bypass it somehow, but when I come up to our house, there's no, there's no lights and it's a long drive up there into the mountains, and I just want to hit the switch and have just daylight in front of me. And, uh, that was not possible with that.

Joe Rogan 47:35 I got my Land Cruiser set up, where if I was in a dark field, you would think a UFO landed.

Jack Carr 47:39 Nice. And yours is 100 series, right? Is that the-

Joe Rogan 47:41 No, I have an 80.

Jack Carr 47:42 Yours is the 80? That's okay.

Joe Rogan 47:43 Yeah, Icon built me that one.

Jack Carr 47:44 Yeah, yeah. I think that's awesome.

Joe Rogan 47:45 It was TLC at the time. Um, but they, they put bars all around it.

Jack Carr 47:49 That thing's sick.

Joe Rogan 47:49 Bar... And bars in the back. So like you could park and like light up the perimeter.

Jack Carr 47:53 Yeah, yeah. That's what I want. I want daylight.

Joe Rogan 47:54 It's awesome.

Jack Carr 47:55 I want daylight.

Joe Rogan 47:55 And then you put a tent on the roof and you're out there in nature.

Jack Carr 47:58 I love it. I love it. I did drive... And I drove a G-Wagon yesterday. So we landed, went right to Staccato. And, uh, so they had a, uh, a portion of G-Wagon right there. And I was like, "Oh man, I was... I'm, I'm... I think my wife's telling me I need to get something more modern that's going to be reliable." We're not going to just break down all the time. And, uh, and so I'm like... They said, "Well, drive it. Drive this thing." And so I got in it. It was like a 2016. So it was before some changes, I guess, were made. And, uh, I think it was nice.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Yeah, so 2016 would have two live axles. I think, uh, they got independent front suspension later.

Jack Carr 48:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:28 I think that was like the 2022 or something like that.

Jack Carr 48:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:31 They started doing that, but...

Jack Carr 48:32 But I still can't do it. It's too, too LA, too Kardashian.

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah, it's very Kardashian.

Jack Carr 48:37 You know?

Joe Rogan 48:37 But the reality of it is, it's a, it's a military vehicle.

Jack Carr 48:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:40 The thing about G-Wagons though, is people do take them and then they build them out for off-road.

Jack Carr 48:45 Yeah. I've seen a couple of those.

Joe Rogan 48:46 They don't do it with like the AMG Turbo fucking thing.

Jack Carr 48:50 Right, right, right. They're all lower.

Joe Rogan 48:50 But the regular one is a V8 anyway. It's got plenty of power.

Jack Carr 48:53 I like the old ones.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Yeah, but you can-

Jack Carr 48:54 I like the old, the old ones.

Joe Rogan 48:54 You can get one of those old ones and people have done amazing builds.

Jack Carr 48:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Where they put like large tires on them, they raise it up a little bit and they put like strong steel bumpers and like rock sliders on the side and you know, it's a beast of a truck.

Jack Carr 49:09 I'll probably need something new at some point, something newer at some point.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Yeah, because the platform is amazing. I mean the platform is really designed, um, for military application.

Jack Carr 49:18 Yeah, the new, the new Land Cruisers, I'm not quite, uh, quite there yet. I like the old stuff, you know, like the newer ones, uh...... I mean, they're- they're probably great, but-

Joe Rogan 49:25 The new, new one is, like, really more modest.

Jack Carr 49:28 Yeah. Yeah, it is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:29 You know? It's not-

Jack Carr 49:30 They dropped the price on them. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:31 It's not like what they were getting to.

Jack Carr 49:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Which is basically, like-

Jack Carr 49:34 Trying to compete with Range Rover.

Joe Rogan 49:35 But they were also fucking themselves because they have Lexus.

Jack Carr 49:38 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:39 And Lexus is, like, the best version of that.

Jack Carr 49:41 Right. Those, is it the 550G, uh, what, what's the new one that they have that's kind of-

Joe Rogan 49:44 Mm-hmm. I think the new one's a 600, I think it's called. Well, th- they have the smaller one, which is more like Land Cruiser size.

Jack Carr 49:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Like, 80 series size, and they have the larger one.

Jack Carr 49:52 Okay. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:53 I had- I had three of the larger ones, those 570s. I had three of those.

Jack Carr 49:57 Yeah, those are sweet, man.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Because they never break.

Jack Carr 49:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:59 They were, like, my favorite family car-

Jack Carr 50:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:00 ... to drive around, and it's awesome four-wheel drive. They're great in snow and anything else, and they fucking always work.

Jack Carr 50:06 Yep.

Joe Rogan 50:06 They always work.

Jack Carr 50:07 Yep, yeah, hard to beat that.

Joe Rogan 50:09 You can't... Toyota is so good.

Jack Carr 50:11 I know.

Joe Rogan 50:11 They're so reliable.

Jack Carr 50:12 I know. The guys got over to Africa to start filming this thing in, uh, we got there in February or March. Anyway, we went over there and, uh, the- the advance crew went over first to get everything set up. And then Chris and I came over a little bit later and when everything was all set up, but the guys were texting back after they were doing all the, um, uh, the advance work for the different places we were gonna go shoot. And they were like, "Now we understand your obsession with the Land Cruiser."

Joe Rogan 50:32 Yeah.

Jack Carr 50:33 You know, 'cause they're all driving Land Cruisers in Africa.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Oh, yeah. Once you get over to any rough place and you realize, like, oh, you want a car that 100% is gonna work for you.

Jack Carr 50:41 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:42 There's a reason why they became so popular. It's not- it's not a mystery.

Jack Carr 50:46 Yeah, yeah. S- same thing, it's like the Seiko, is that a Seiko?

Joe Rogan 50:48 Yeah.

Jack Carr 50:49 Nice. It's like they said-

Joe Rogan 50:50 That's the Willard.

Jack Carr 50:50 ... that's the Toyota of watches, nice.

Joe Rogan 50:51 That's the Willard.

Jack Carr 50:52 I love it.

Joe Rogan 50:53 That's the one that Captain Willard wore in Apocalypse Now.

Jack Carr 50:55 Nice. Absolutely, which I think came out-

Joe Rogan 50:56 I have an original.

Jack Carr 50:57 I do, too.

Joe Rogan 50:57 I have an original.

Jack Carr 50:58 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:58 Out of 1971, I think it is.

Jack Carr 51:01 Oh, nice, okay.

Joe Rogan 51:01 '70 or '71.

Jack Carr 51:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 51:02 Yeah.

Jack Carr 51:02 Yeah, I collected all the, uh, the SOG Seikos-

Joe Rogan 51:04 Oh, nice.

Jack Carr 51:04 ... 'cause this is MACV-SOG, so I collected all those. There's-

Joe Rogan 51:07 Yeah.

Jack Carr 51:07 I think there's four of them that, uh, that they've, uh, they've seen pictures of MACV-SOG guys wearing going into Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam, which is what the book is, uh-

Joe Rogan 51:14 Right.

Jack Carr 51:14 ... is focused on. So not only did I try to transport myself back by listening to all these things, but I had the watch right there. Like, this is a 1968, uh, Rolex, like, I-

Joe Rogan 51:21 Oh, nice.

Jack Carr 51:22 Yeah, so I got that thing, the Submariner. So I surrounded myself with things that are-

Joe Rogan 51:26 Wow, that's cool.

Jack Carr 51:26 ... like, totems from the book. So this is what, uh, Tom Reese... And I have a cool way that he wins this, and-

Joe Rogan 51:31 How'd you get a '68... Where'd you find that?

Jack Carr 51:33 Uh-

Joe Rogan 51:33 Did you get it online?

Jack Carr 51:34 A buddy of mine who's a Rolex dealer out in, uh, in PA found it for me.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Oh.

Jack Carr 51:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Wow, that's fucking cool.

Jack Carr 51:41 Yeah, so I like the, I like the older stuff now I'm finding.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Crazy it looks exactly the same.

Jack Carr 51:44 Yeah, pretty much. I mean, there's li- little, the, uh, the crystal's different and stuff like that, but the, uh, the alume's different, that sort of thing, but for the most part-

Joe Rogan 51:49 Well, they used to be, uh, a utility watch.

Jack Carr 51:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:52 It used to be-

Jack Carr 51:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:53 That used to be a tool watch.

Jack Carr 51:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Which is crazy because you think of them today as being luxury.

Jack Carr 51:58 Yep.

Joe Rogan 51:58 But the reason why they were built so well was just for, you know, use in diving.

Jack Carr 52:03 Yep.

Joe Rogan 52:03 They were-

Jack Carr 52:03 No, exactly.

Joe Rogan 52:04 ... actually a watch that people would dive with.

Jack Carr 52:06 Exactly. And also, you wear something like this or like that, and people, like, watch people know. They'll see it and be like, "Oh, okay." It's not like to-

Joe Rogan 52:11 Yeah.

Jack Carr 52:11 ... some guy that went out and bought an expensive watch. They're like, "Okay." If someone put a lot of thought into this, like you wearing the Willard and me having those MACV-SOGs, and this one from 1968, um, it's, uh, it- it tells you put a little more thought into this sort of thing than, like, just, "What's an expensive watch?" Or something.

Joe Rogan 52:24 Right.

Jack Carr 52:24 Something along those lines. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:26 Yeah.

Jack Carr 52:26 But I, yeah, I mean, this, it tells a story, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:28 Yeah, it's pretty dope.

Jack Carr 52:29 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:30 It's pretty thin, too.

Jack Carr 52:31 Yeah, it's a lit- little thinner than I, than I thought when it came, though. And the band's a little different. It kind of-

Joe Rogan 52:35 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 52:35 ... I think it makes some, makes some noise there. But I- I love this. And so it's these and the TUDORs that guys were wearing back in Vietnam, the SEALs in particular.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Oh.

Jack Carr 52:41 They had the TUDOR Submariner.

Joe Rogan 52:42 Right.

Jack Carr 52:42 So I got one of those recently. I'd been wanting to get one for years, 'cause when I got to the SEAL teams, they were... There was this, a rumor, so I never saw it with my own eyes, but, uh, so it's secondhand information, is that they were, in supply, they were destroying the TUDORs with hammers. And I can't then... 'Cause now we're getting issued Seikos. And so they'd issued these to the guys that actually, they jumped in to get the Apollo, uh, spacecraft. Uh, SEALs jumped in after those things, UDT SEALs, uh, to get those guys out of the water.

Joe Rogan 53:06 Hmm.

Jack Carr 53:06 And, uh, and, uh, these people in supply, I think in the- the '90s, were destroying the TUDORs for some reason, probably 'cause they were told to, uh, so guys wouldn't get them and sell them or something like that, I don't know. But, uh, but I did a- track one down recently through the, through, uh, Watches of Espionage. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:20 Oh, wow.

Jack Carr 53:21 ... and so he found me a new TUDOR and an... Or an old TUDOR, but I got that. And then we did a little documentary with some old guys from, uh, the '70s, from, and the '60s, that were SEALs in- in Vietnam. And they were pulled out of Vietnam. They were in Vietnam one day, and then the next day, they were off the, in the Pacific on an aircraft carrier, waiting to recover the, uh, the Apollo astronauts.

Joe Rogan 53:38 Whoa.

Jack Carr 53:38 Yeah, pretty cool. We did a documentary on it for- for TUDOR. And, uh, it was- it was pretty cool to talk to those guys. I mean, just- just amazing. 'Cause now they're k- they were taking lives in Vietnam, and then they're supposed... They're now, they're just thrown into this- this, on these helicopters to jump into the ocean to save lives. It's kind of a cool juxtaposition.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Yeah, for sure.

Jack Carr 53:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:54 It is interesting that their- their equipment became luxury.

Jack Carr 53:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:58 Weird.

Jack Carr 53:58 (laughs) Well, you can go back. I love these old ads, Rolex ads from... Must be the 60... I think they're 60s, 70s, 80s. I mean, there are some from the early 80s where they have a guy, like, with a rhino. And it's like, "The editor of Guns & Ammo magazine, with his dead rhino, wears a Rolex." And they had at least, yeah, they had, like, two of those types of ads back then.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Wow.

Jack Carr 54:15 I don't like to acknowledge that today, I don't think, the Rolex people.

Joe Rogan 54:17 Yeah, don't kill rhinos.

Jack Carr 54:18 But, uh, but they had... But that was, like, in the early 80s. That's what they were, they were still marketing towards that, sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 54:23 Wow.

Jack Carr 54:23 Yeah, really cool.

Joe Rogan 54:24 They were still rugged.

Jack Carr 54:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:25 Well, think about, didn't James Bond always have a Rolex?

Jack Carr 54:27 Oh, here we go. Here's one.

Joe Rogan 54:27 If you were looking for lost empires here tomorrow, you'd wear a Rolex.

Jack Carr 54:32 There's one.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Wow.

Jack Carr 54:33 There's one.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Isn't that crazy?

Jack Carr 54:34 But you got to find the one with the rhino and, uh-

Joe Rogan 54:35 Well, they're- they're so-

Jack Carr 54:36 ... and, uh, then there's the one with the wildebeest.

Joe Rogan 54:37 ... fucking dependable.

Jack Carr 54:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:39 I-

Jack Carr 54:39 Frederick Forsyth, the author, actually had one. They used to do, they used to do, uh, had a relationship with him in the '70s and '80s. And they're like, "Here's Frederick Forsyth, who wrote Day of the Jackal-"

Joe Rogan 54:46 Look at that.

Jack Carr 54:46 "... wearing his jackal coat, uh, in front of this jaguar." And, uh, it's just, you'd never see that today. Yeah, but there it is, yeah. There you go.

Joe Rogan 54:53 If taming oil well fires were your job, you'd wear a Rolex.

Jack Carr 54:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:56 Isn't that crazy? What? (laughs)

Jack Carr 54:58 Yeah. Let's- let's see if we can find the, uh-

Joe Rogan 55:01 Look at that.

Jack Carr 55:01 ... find a hunting one. Maybe Rolex hunting or something. Um, but they're just, those ones are wild.

Joe Rogan 55:04 Look at that, racing here. Like, it's for-

Jack Carr 55:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:07 ... anybody that's doing anything difficult.

Jack Carr 55:09 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:09 It's kind of crazy.

Jack Carr 55:10 And now it's, now it's tennis and it's golf. That's what happening.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Well, now it's just, like, you know, looking fancy at a restaurant-

Jack Carr 55:16 Oh, there's Bond.

Joe Rogan 55:16 ... or whatever you're doing.

Jack Carr 55:17 Oh, here we go. Here we go, there's Connery right there.

Joe Rogan 55:18 Yeah.

Jack Carr 55:18 The thunderball action.

Joe Rogan 55:19 (sings)

Jack Carr 55:19 Yeah, yeah. Love it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:22 Yeah.

Jack Carr 55:22 Fleming had one. They, he doesn't say which specific model it is in the books. Um, of course, Omega sponsored the- the- the movie starting with Bronson, I think. But, uh, but the-... in the books, it's a Rolex.

Joe Rogan 55:33 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 55:33 He doesn't say what specific model, but he wore it, I think, when Fleming wore an Explorer, I think.

Joe Rogan 55:36 There it is.

Jack Carr 55:37 But, uh, oh, there you go.

Joe Rogan 55:38 If you hunted big game over the world, Cape Buffalo-

Jack Carr 55:40 There's Cape Buffalo right there.

Joe Rogan 55:41 ... you wear a Rolex. Wow.

Jack Carr 55:43 Yeah, pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 55:44 Weird.

Jack Carr 55:45 Yeah. They don't do that today.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Just weird that that became, it went from being, like, this manly, super durable thing to... Like, when did people really start getting into watches and collecting them? And when did it become, like, a fetish?

Jack Carr 55:57 Must be the '80s.

Joe Rogan 55:58 Yeah?

Jack Carr 55:59 Must be the '80s, I would guess. I mean, I think it's always been a thing, 'cause you can go back and find, like, amazing, uh, Patek Philippes and stuff like that-

Joe Rogan 56:05 Mm-hmm.

Jack Carr 56:05 ... and go back and find the Omegas, the old Rolexes-

Joe Rogan 56:07 Oh.

Jack Carr 56:07 ... and it's a thing. So, uh, but wearing them is-

Joe Rogan 56:09 But now it's kind of nuts.

Jack Carr 56:09 Yeah. Now it's gotten a little, little crazy, which is why I like