Joe Rogan Experience #2426 - Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hey.

Adam Greentree 0:13 We're live?

Narrator 0:13 We're live.

Adam Greentree 0:13 Hey.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Gentlemen, what's happening?

Adam Greentree 0:15 (laughs) What is going on?

Joe Rogan 0:17 Good to see ya. Good to see you guys again.

Adam Greentree 0:18 Bow hunting brothers.

Joe Rogan 0:19 You know, we were just talking about the mountain lion that we have in the lobby, and how insane that thing is. So Adam, you shot that mountain lion when?

Adam Greentree 0:27 I think it was about six or seven years ago now.

Joe Rogan 0:28 And you ate it, and I ate some of it. You sent some to me. It's really good, believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.

Adam Greentree 0:34 You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible. I-

Joe Rogan 0:36 Everybody says it's like ... They, they, the way they describe it is like a sup- I think Rinella said this, a superior pork.

Adam Greentree 0:41 Yeah. Yeah. It's like ... I, I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken. And then ... And I only did a quick on the barbecue, and I'm not a great cook, but it was that tender and that tasty.

Joe Rogan 0:53 But the, the story behind the mountain lion's nuts. Like, that was a, like a murderous mountain lion-

Adam Greentree 0:57 Mm.

Joe Rogan 0:58 ... that-

Adam Greentree 0:58 It was ... I felt a bit funny about it to start with, because like the dogs do all the hunting, right? The dogs smell it, dogs find it, they put it up in a tree, but the further I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree 'cause you wanna sex it, and you wanna age it, you know? You wanna make sure it's a lion that's, you know, old, and it has to be a male to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time you had to, anyway. So, it was actually the perfect way to hunt, but then seeing how destructive that individual lion was, at least, um, I was telling Cam about this when we got here, that it must've grabbed the cow, like a beef cow. It must've grabbed it on the neck. Um, and the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally, and vocally it was still alive, and when we got there, the mountain lion was like eating it from its rear end-

Joe Rogan 1:48 (exhales)

Adam Greentree 1:48 And it'd been there for at least an hour or two, because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's ass.

Joe Rogan 1:54 Oh.

Adam Greentree 1:55 And, um- Kicking its hooves. Yeah, and it just ... But it ... The cow couldn't get up, so it was f- it was literally eating it while it was still alive-

Joe Rogan 2:02 (exhales)

Adam Greentree 2:02 And as the dogs were running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance just like screaming, like mooing flat out.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Oh.

Adam Greentree 2:10 And you could tell something was wrong. The dogs got there. The lion ran off. Um, we end up calling the rancher in. The rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery. Still screaming on the ground right in front of me. I was ... Uh, hey, I was teared up, like, you know-

Joe Rogan 2:23 Oh, God.

Adam Greentree 2:23 Like, I don't like suffering, like the next person. Um, so it was a very horrible moment. So then it was like, n- now I'm into it. Like, now I'm into finding this lion and-

Joe Rogan 2:33 Brothers. It's, it's like a werewolf's loose in your town.

Adam Greentree 2:36 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:37 You know? Having a ... That ... How much did that cat weigh, by the way?

Adam Greentree 2:40 I-

Joe Rogan 2:41 By the way, as in weight.

Adam Greentree 2:42 I, I held it up for size, and um, I could hold it for maybe 30 seconds, and I literally couldn't hold it up anymore, and I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that lion was.

Joe Rogan 2:54 It looks like it's at least 150 pounds, right?

Adam Greentree 2:56 Yeah. It's giant, so it's like- I'd say 170.

Joe Rogan 2:58 170? That's what you think it would be-

Adam Greentree 3:00 Yeah, I would think.

Joe Rogan 3:00 ... on the f- on the paw, I guess-

Adam Greentree 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 ... as it were?

Adam Greentree 3:02 Yeah. Yeah, alive.

Joe Rogan 3:02 (exhales)

Adam Greentree 3:03 Yeah, and it's a big a-

Joe Rogan 3:04 Imagine. It-

Adam Greentree 3:04 That's a big animal.

Joe Rogan 3:05 We were b- standing out in front of it like going, "Imagine if this thing jumped on you."

Adam Greentree 3:08 Yeah. It's a living monster.

Joe Rogan 3:10 It is a monster.

Adam Greentree 3:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:11 It's a real monster.

Adam Greentree 3:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:12 And it's, it's like, "Oh, they ha- they kill their animal, their prey first." No, they don't ... Just make sure it doesn't move anymore.

Adam Greentree 3:18 Yeah, just whatever's good for eating.

Joe Rogan 3:19 If it's paralyzed, they'll just start eating it.

Adam Greentree 3:20 (laughs) Whatever's good for eating, it's on.

Joe Rogan 3:22 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 3:23 They ... Like, we're the only thing that has compassion in the wild. You know, that we're ... Like, the putting it out of the misery like the rancher did?

Joe Rogan 3:29 Mm-hmm.

Adam Greentree 3:29 You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers. W- we do appreciate life and death, and there is a time where, hey, let's put it out of its misery, but it's, uh ... Yeah, it's ... Man is the only one who thinks about that. An animal, they'll just start eating. They could care less about ... They don't even know about pain, really, or-

Joe Rogan 3:46 No.

Adam Greentree 3:46 ... being merciful or anything like that. It's just, it's what we do. Yeah, I always say like, uh, the lion in Africa, like, it stripes a zebra across the back end, and the zebra gets away, and it's just got like blood pouring out of it, and it's got this horrible wound that it's gonna have to live with. That lion has not lost any sleep over that ever in its life.

Joe Rogan 4:07 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 4:08 It's just, it's not even a thought, you know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:09 It's just fascinating that all these different creatures exist with us, 'cause we're so insulated for the most part, like most people are so insulated living in cities, traveling on buses and planes and cars, and never-

Adam Greentree 4:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:23 ... never seeing a thing like this in real life.

Adam Greentree 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:27 And you realize, like at the same time while you're going to Starbucks and, you know, you're, you're picking out the new iPhone, th- there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now.

Adam Greentree 4:38 Mm-hmm. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:39 Like, right now in the world-

Adam Greentree 4:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:41 ... there's a lion full speed at the zebra, and it's gonna tackle it, and it's gonna grab it by its face, and all these animals exist to keep each other in check.

Adam Greentree 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:51 That's the real beauty of nature. And when you really see it when ... We saw that ... We were out yesterday, Cam and I were, we were hunting for pigs, and we saw a feral cat-

Adam Greentree 5:01 Oh.

Joe Rogan 5:01 ... make a pounce on a mouse.

Adam Greentree 5:02 Oh, shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:03 Like, we were in the perfect ... It was one of the coolest things.

Adam Greentree 5:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:05 'Cause even though like, it's a kitty cat. Meow. Like a little, tiny kitty cat.

Adam Greentree 5:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:09 Little f- it was fluffy, too. It was kinda-

Adam Greentree 5:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:11 ... cute. We watched a predator in the rare moment when you see him executing a kill. I mean, it was only a feral cat-

Adam Greentree 5:18 Yeah, yeah. This is cool.

Joe Rogan 5:19 ... but it was still ... We saw, we saw his little butt wiggle. We saw that thing that they do-

Adam Greentree 5:23 Getting excited.

Joe Rogan 5:23 ... where they get ding and then up in the air.

Adam Greentree 5:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:25 And went-

Adam Greentree 5:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Like, that is cool. It was so wild, which-

Adam Greentree 5:28 And th- and tha- that's going on multiple places throughout o- on our planet right n- you know-

Joe Rogan 5:33 Oh, yeah.

Adam Greentree 5:33 Right now, as you said.

Joe Rogan 5:34 Everywhere. I've never ... Yeah. That's-

Adam Greentree 5:35 It's like, if you could have like zoom in on a little camera all these little-

Joe Rogan 5:38 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 5:39 ... interactions of predator or prey, or-

Cameron Hanes 5:41 I mean, that's happening.

Joe Rogan 5:42 Well, if you could see it all at once, like if there was a camera on every single predator/prey encounter simultaneously in the world, and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700 feet high, you would think, "Oh my God, we're at war."

Adam Greentree 5:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:56 There's a war in the natural world.

Adam Greentree 5:58 Yeah, we live on a murderous planet, right?

Joe Rogan 6:00 It's a constant war. Just cats alone.

Adam Greentree 6:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:02 Have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone, just house cats kill? It's literally in the billions in North America.

Adam Greentree 6:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:10 Billions every year.

Cameron Hanes 6:12 Non-stop killing.

Joe Rogan 6:12 But imagine how many rats there would be if the cats weren't out there.

Adam Greentree 6:15 Oh, yeah. 100%.

Joe Rogan 6:16 Like, it's all... There's a balance to it all. "Oh my God, these cats are killing everything." Right.

Adam Greentree 6:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Imagine how many-

Cameron Hanes 6:22 If they didn't-

Joe Rogan 6:22 ... fucking mice would be out there if there weren't cats.

Adam Greentree 6:24 Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

Joe Rogan 6:26 It's all balance.

Cameron Hanes 6:27 Yeah. That, uh... To, to Adam's point about his lion in Colorado. It's so managed, um, that, that, that animal actually probably could have been killed off, uh... Like, because it was killing livestock.

Adam Greentree 6:42 Yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 6:42 You know? But when you kill an a- a lion in Colorado, it's very detailed, very documented and tracked. It's like you can only take... Like, in the unit I was hunting lion, I didn't kill one, but you could only kill 35 in the year.

Joe Rogan 6:55 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 6:55 And every time a lion comes in, they, they catalog it, check it, um, get it... You know, all the information in there, and then that's one of the 35. Once you reach the 35 quota, you're done.

Adam Greentree 7:06 You're done. So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:07 So, let's put this in perspective, because if that doesn't happen... And by the way, all that money goes back to the state, goes to game wardens. It helps everybody, helps conservation. If you don't have that, you know what you have? You have what's going on in Japan.

Adam Greentree 7:19 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:19 Where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks. So just last year, they had a kill, I think it was 1,000... It's at least 1,000. I think it was more than 1,000 bears last year.

Cameron Hanes 7:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:33 And this year is projected to be even higher than last year. So the bears at the fucking military-

Adam Greentree 7:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:39 ... has to go in and o- They're having a war on giant brown bears.

Cameron Hanes 7:43 That are killing, I don't know how many people already this year.

Joe Rogan 7:45 A shit ton.

Cameron Hanes 7:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:47 A shit ton.

Adam Greentree 7:48 They, they are-

Joe Rogan 7:48 So when you put that into Perplexity, our sponsor, how many people have been killed in Japan by grizzly bears? Or, well, they're not grizzly bears, but they're essentially brown bears.

Adam Greentree 7:57 They're, they're a type of brown bear, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:57 They're a brown bear. Record surge of brown bear attacks in 2025, with at least 13 fatalities and over 200 injuries. Holy fuck! Make- making it the deadliest year for bear attacks in recent history. Majority of fatal attacks have occurred in Ho- Hodok... How do you say that?

Adam Greentree 8:14 Hokkaido.

Joe Rogan 8:15 Hokkaido, Hokkaido, where brown bears are more prevalent, and the number of attacks has prompted emergency responses, including the deployment of military personnel in some regions. Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming that have been saying, "We're seeing more brown bears than ever before." Guys who are going on elk hunts and getting freaked out.

Adam Greentree 8:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:35 And like, they have to de-list these fucking things.

Adam Greentree 8:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Like, they are totally fearless. They, they've never been hunted.

Adam Greentree 8:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:41 So they have no fear of humans. How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off and the bear shows up after the gun goes off-

Adam Greentree 8:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:49 ... 'cause it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down?

Adam Greentree 8:52 Like a dinner bell.

Joe Rogan 8:52 Like a dinner bell.

Cameron Hanes 8:53 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 8:53 I flew into Hokai- kaido. Japan had a period where they would let foreigners hunt, and it had to be with a bow. And I was chasing seek- sika stags over there, and I had no idea they had a brown bear at all. (laughs) And, uh, I was going through this big reedy area, like, you know, the reeds are up above your head, and there was just a game trail going in there, like wh- that the deer had been using. And as I was going through there, I could see that it was, it was starting to open up a little bit more, like a flattened-out section, maybe like, uh, where the deer had been bedded. And I got in there, and there was a sika deer just like the rib cage all chewed out, and it was just a big muddy clearing, where this brown bear had got in there and just like rolled around with this carcass. But the prints in the mud were like that.

Cameron Hanes 9:41 Oh, my word.

Adam Greentree 9:41 I had no i- Like, I had no idea there was even bears there. So I'm getting-

Joe Rogan 9:45 Wait a minute. What year is this?

Adam Greentree 9:46 Uh, it'd have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.

Joe Rogan 9:49 But Google is still around, right?

Adam Greentree 9:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:51 You didn't check? You didn't go, "Hey, what's in the area before I even thought about it?"

Cameron Hanes 9:54 I didn't even wonder about it. I wouldn't thought about it.

Adam Greentree 9:55 I started messaging the outfitter and being like, "Dude, there's bears here."

Joe Rogan 10:00 Look at that bear.

Adam Greentree 10:01 Yeah. And then he thu- he started telling me that the- it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.

Joe Rogan 10:07 Bro, that bear fucked up that guy's hood. Look at this.

Adam Greentree 10:08 Oh, yeah. That's a big, that's a big bear.

Cameron Hanes 10:10 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 10:11 But the police force, 'cause I believe there was an unarmed police force at the time, they had an issue with a bear where it had killed two hunters there, and he had to go in and shoot this bear. He had photos on a tractor, and I don't do the gruesome photos, but he's just flicking through his phone, and the next photo is a guy with his face missing from this brown bear attack. And another photo, the bear... When they, when he went in to shoot the bear, the bear was in a stream holding the guy down in the water, eating him in the water.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Oh.

Adam Greentree 10:44 And it like... So, yeah, pretty gruesome.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 10:46 So it was pretty full on. But up until that point, I never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.

Cameron Hanes 10:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Bro, before you go someplace with a bow-

Adam Greentree 10:53 It makes sense.

Joe Rogan 10:54 ... do a, do a cursory internet search.

Cameron Hanes 10:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Adam Greentree 10:57 I'm from Australia, like come on.

Joe Rogan 10:58 You know, even if it's... You guys have the internet. Shut the fuck up.

Adam Greentree 11:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:00 You were telling me some startling things going by.

Cameron Hanes 11:03 No, they're, they're way, they're way behind in Australia, though.

Adam Greentree 11:06 Let's not talk about that one.

Cameron Hanes 11:07 They ju- they just got the internet.

Joe Rogan 11:09 This guy is a traveling bow hunter, and he doesn't check to see if there's enormous monsters living in the same neighborhood.

Adam Greentree 11:14 There's the romance in it, of the unknown.

Joe Rogan 11:16 Oh. Oh, that's cute. That's cute.

Adam Greentree 11:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:18 Look, there's plenty of unknown out there, you know? You don't need to add to it.

Adam Greentree 11:22 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 11:22 There's, uh...

Adam Greentree 11:23 Uh, it's all disappearing. All the unknowns disappear because of the internet.

Joe Rogan 11:27 Ugh. A little bit.

Cameron Hanes 11:27 Another, another layer to that Japan story is, the reason why they have to deploy the military is 'cause all the hunters are aging out. So, there was hunters there.

Adam Greentree 11:36 Yeah. Huh.

Cameron Hanes 11:36 But because hunting is kind of like this dying thing-

Adam Greentree 11:39 Hmm.

Cameron Hanes 11:39 ... for this next generation-

Adam Greentree 11:41 Ah.

Cameron Hanes 11:41 ... there's not enough hunters. So they have to get the military involved. Otherwise, it would be hunters like, you know, you going over there and... They've talked about, like...I mean, I know there's Americans who would volunteer to do it. But, that's another part of it is, um, this next generation just isn't hunting. I have another question. Jamie, put this into Perplexity, please. Um, how many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags in 2024 in California? 'Cause what I had read, o- on a forum, so it has to be correct. (laughs) Must be true.

Joe Rogan 12:11 'Cause those guys are all experts.

Cameron Hanes 12:12 Oh, yeah, they're dialed in.

Joe Rogan 12:13 Uh, I had read that an equal number of mountain lions had been killed with depredation tags by like experts with dogs, like they bring them in, than if they gave the tags out.

Cameron Hanes 12:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:25 So, if they had given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt, you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions that they had to kill.

Cameron Hanes 12:32 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:33 And instead of that, you would have revenue.

Cameron Hanes 12:35 Yeah. Money going-

Joe Rogan 12:36 Yeah. Instead of paying. Instead of paying. Instead of the opposite.

Cameron Hanes 12:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Right, instead of paying.

Narrator 12:38 And the collection of the meat, obviously.

Joe Rogan 12:39 All right. California's not yet published a full 2025 total, but the best available data as of July 2025 shows at least a 167 mountain lions reported taken under depredation permits in 2020, and 166 in 2022, with annual totals of over 100 in recent years. So, every year they have to kill- kill at least 100 mountain lions.

Cameron Hanes 13:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:01 Probably quite a bit more. It looks like 67 more, 66 more.

Cameron Hanes 13:05 And I would say it's only went up since then.

Joe Rogan 13:08 Yeah, well, th- the thing is like they're doing nothing to curb the population.

Cameron Hanes 13:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:12 And this is, the thing is like people go, "Oh, it's okay. Let nature do its thing." No, it doesn't do its thing. It kills your dog. Okay?

Cameron Hanes 13:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:19 One of the things they found out in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, was when they do shoot these mountain lions, they've done an analysis of their diet. It's 50% dogs and cats.

Cameron Hanes 13:28 Wow.

Joe Rogan 13:28 50% of their diet is eating people's pets.

Cameron Hanes 13:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:31 So, they're hunting people's pets. That means you are... If you're a dog lover, you're allowing a monster-

Cameron Hanes 13:38 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:38 ... to eat your dog because you think that's the right thing to do and be kind with nature, "Hey, hey."

Cameron Hanes 13:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:45 No, you have to hunt them. You have to get them the fuck away from you and keep a healthy population of them.

Cameron Hanes 13:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:50 And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.

Cameron Hanes 13:53 Here's, here's one other search, Jamie. Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon, legally? 'Cause that would be like, Oregon's, of course, just right north of California.

Joe Rogan 14:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 14:03 Let's compare the legal harvest, uh, in Or- in a, in a state that hu-... We can't use dogs, but you can kill them when you see them and you can buy a tag and the season-

Joe Rogan 14:12 Well, that's, then it's very difficult to kill them, right, if you can't use dogs?

Cameron Hanes 14:15 Yeah. The sea-... To do that they have to have the season open all year and they just hope enough are getting killed. But then they still have to kill depreva- depredation.

Joe Rogan 14:23 And is that a situation where you, you buy like a mountain lion tag, like just an extra tag, and you just have it just in case you run into one?

Cameron Hanes 14:30 Yeah. So, what if-

Joe Rogan 14:30 So, if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk, but you have a mountain lion tag?

Cameron Hanes 14:34 Yeah, that's it. So, we- we were hoping, you know, if you see one... Basically, I have a bear tag, lion tag, uh, deer and elk.

Joe Rogan 14:42 It says Oregon kills far more cougars each year than California, but those Oregon numbers can- come mainly from sport hunting and agency control, not from depredation tags. Oh, wait a minute. Agency control is what we're looking at, not depredation. Um, so what is the numbers here? 160.

Narrator 14:58 Reword the question.

Joe Rogan 14:59 Yeah, let's reword the question and ask, how many were killed in California from agency control?

Cameron Hanes 15:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:07 Put that in there. How many mountain lions were killed in California through agency control? Because we were just looking at depredation tags, which is like what a hunter get... Or excuse me, a farmer gets.

Cameron Hanes 15:22 So, it says in Oregon that we could kill 970, but that would... They never kill that many.

Joe Rogan 15:28 Okay. They did not publish a clean state-wide tally labeled specifically as agency control mountain lion kills. Uh, and current official tables group most lethal removals under depredation permits rather than separate agency control category. As a result, there's no single publicly available number that states how many mountain lions were killed through agency control alone.

Cameron Hanes 15:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Let's just put this in. How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024? Just period. Let's just ask that question.

Cameron Hanes 16:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:01 I don't even know where we'd get this data.

Cameron Hanes 16:03 I don't know. It'd have to be Fish & Game. Hmm. 20?

Joe Rogan 16:20 Hmm, that doesn't make any sense.

Cameron Hanes 16:21 No.

Joe Rogan 16:21 Oh, so they're saying these fig- these figures not include deaths from vehicle to... But that's not true, 'cause they just said earlier that it was a 100 and s-... Okay.

Cameron Hanes 16:30 480 depred- depredation incidents.

Joe Rogan 16:33 And 222 depredation permits.

Cameron Hanes 16:36 Okay.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take and 20 mountain lions were actually reported as lethally taken on depredation permits. That's weird. This is totally different numbers...

Cameron Hanes 16:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:45 ... than it was giving us before. So, now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.

Cameron Hanes 16:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:52 Huh.

Cameron Hanes 16:53 I don't know.

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Cameron Hanes 18:33 I think they-

Joe Rogan 18:33 Oh, it says... Oh, oh. It say, k- okay. It says of the permits, 52 were authorized to kill them. So it says lethal take. So it's authorized to kill them. And 20 were actually reported as lethally killed.

Cameron Hanes 18:44 So-

Joe Rogan 18:45 So they're saying it's only 20.

Cameron Hanes 18:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:46 That seems cooky.

Cameron Hanes 18:47 So, but that is, that's for, uh, like a ranch owner to do the killing.

Joe Rogan 18:52 Okay.

Cameron Hanes 18:52 So they, they say, "Hey, this lion's been killing my calves 480 times." And 222 of those they said, "Okay, go ahead and kill the lion."

Joe Rogan 19:01 Okay. Right. So this is permits that were released rather than-

Cameron Hanes 19:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:04 ... the agency doing the depredation work.

Cameron Hanes 19:06 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Okay.

Cameron Hanes 19:06 So you, you would add this total to the other number we have.

Joe Rogan 19:09 Right. Because the depredation thing too, you gotta think, it's ranchers. Right?

Cameron Hanes 19:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:14 So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere. A lot of the depredations though that they might be listing is what we were talking about with San Francisco, where they found that they're eating people's cats-

Cameron Hanes 19:23 Yeah.

Narrator 19:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:23 ... and dogs. So maybe they get depredations. It's not like... But you, you can't give it out to the fucking homeowner.

Cameron Hanes 19:29 Yeah.

Narrator 19:29 No.

Joe Rogan 19:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 19:30 Yeah. Yeah, see-

Narrator 19:30 That, that would-

Joe Rogan 19:30 So you only give those tags out to ranchers-

Cameron Hanes 19:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:32 ... it seems like.

Cameron Hanes 19:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Okay.

Cameron Hanes 19:34 To people that have livestock that's being lost.

Joe Rogan 19:35 And the rest of the depredation is probably done by-

Cameron Hanes 19:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:37 ... some sort of a government guy.

Cameron Hanes 19:39 Yeah.

Narrator 19:39 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 19:39 They would call it, they would call it something other than depredation.

Joe Rogan 19:42 Do you think he uses dogs? How do you think they get them?

Cameron Hanes 19:44 Yeah. Yeah, or snare. Like in Oregon, um, Wayne has done this, where people, they're losing their goats, their calves, something like sheep, something like that. And then they'll let you snare it.

Joe Rogan 19:58 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 19:58 So you can go in there, you take pictures of the animals that are killed. And another, um-

Joe Rogan 20:03 Snaring it is brutal.

Cameron Hanes 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Oof.

Cameron Hanes 20:06 Or trap.

Narrator 20:06 Trap. Like a foot trap.

Cameron Hanes 20:07 Basically a trap. It's a, it's a foothold. Yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 20:10 In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.

Cameron Hanes 20:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:12 You just whack them.

Cameron Hanes 20:14 Yeah. Well...

Joe Rogan 20:15 I think that's the way to go, because I think they're so hard to see.

Cameron Hanes 20:18 It's different-

Joe Rogan 20:18 They're so hard to find.

Cameron Hanes 20:19 Different politics.

Narrator 20:20 I've, I've seen maybe two in all the hunting that I've done, just naturally in the wild.

Cameron Hanes 20:25 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 20:26 And you would have seen more, but it's not a big number.

Cameron Hanes 20:29 Yeah.

Narrator 20:29 They're out there, but they're just so sneaky, right?

Joe Rogan 20:30 Oh, they're so fucking sneaky.

Cameron Hanes 20:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:32 We saw one... I told you the story. We saw the one in Utah with Colton.

Cameron Hanes 20:35 Yeah.

Narrator 20:35 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 20:35 Yeah, a huge one.

Joe Rogan 20:36 Like that one.

Cameron Hanes 20:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:37 He was like his big as yours. It was fucking terrifying. Inside of a car, 30 yards away, and I'm shitting my pants.

Cameron Hanes 20:43 Yeah. (laughs)

Narrator 20:44 Not-

Joe Rogan 20:44 I'm not even... (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 20:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:46 And we're armed.

Narrator 20:47 Yeah, right.

Cameron Hanes 20:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:47 You know? And we have bows, we have... (laughs) You know?

Cameron Hanes 20:49 So the, the difference between Oregon and California and Texas, you know, Texas being able to shoot them like coyotes is, that's politics, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:56 Yeah.

Narrator 20:56 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 20:56 Of course, West Coast is liberal and different.

Joe Rogan 20:58 Well, Utah changed it though. Utah has it now, like coyotes.

Cameron Hanes 21:02 Perfect.

Joe Rogan 21:02 Yeah.

Narrator 21:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 21:03 It-

Joe Rogan 21:03 That's how it should be.

Narrator 21:04 I think there has to be like management behind it.

Cameron Hanes 21:06 Or regs.

Joe Rogan 21:06 I don't even know if you have to have a tag in Utah anymore.

Narrator 21:09 Mm. Mm.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Let's find that out. Um, put that search in. Do you need a tag to get, uh, to hunt mountain lion in Utah? Maybe they just give out over-the-counter tags-

Narrator 21:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:18 ... to anybody who wants them and they're still collecting revenue, which is ideal.

Cameron Hanes 21:21 Right.

Narrator 21:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:21 That's the best way to do it.

Narrator 21:23 And if the numbers are great enough-

Joe Rogan 21:24 Yeah.

Narrator 21:25 ... then yeah. That's easy, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 21:26 But Cal- But Texas doesn't even do that. They go, "Nope, we don't want to get involved."

Narrator 21:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:29 "Just, you go ahead and shoot them."

Cameron Hanes 21:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 21:31 And it's a fucking monster in your backyard.

Cameron Hanes 21:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:34 B- this is coming from someone who loves them.

Cameron Hanes 21:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:36 I love them. I love mountain lions.

Narrator 21:37 Oh, yeah. On the side.

Joe Rogan 21:38 I think they're amazing.

Narrator 21:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 Okay. Yes, you must have a valid Utah hunting or combination hunting/fishing license to hunt mountain lions.

Cameron Hanes 21:44 Like hunting tag.

Joe Rogan 21:44 But you do not need a separate cougar tag.

Narrator 21:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Okay, so it is like a coyote.

Cameron Hanes 21:48 Yeah, so it's year-round harvest for licensed hunters.

Joe Rogan 21:50 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 21:50 And you just have to get it checked in after you kill.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Right. So all you-

Cameron Hanes 21:53 Within 48 hours.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Which is also smart.

Cameron Hanes 21:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:56 'Cause they want to know what it's been eating.

Cameron Hanes 21:57 That's... Now, that's how you do it.

Narrator 21:58 Yeah. That's, that's what I've done with mine.

Joe Rogan 21:58 That's how you do it. Utah, way to go.

Cameron Hanes 22:00 Good job, Utah.

Joe Rogan 22:01 That's the right way to do it. And of course you should have a hunting license.

Cameron Hanes 22:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:04 I think you have to have one in Texas as well-

Narrator 22:06 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 22:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:06 ... to hunt anything.

Cameron Hanes 22:07 This, uh, talking about this, this-

Joe Rogan 22:09 Actually, that's not true, right?

Cameron Hanes 22:10 What?

Joe Rogan 22:11 No, I'm thinking that, no, I think in Texas you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.

Narrator 22:16 No, not if they're on a private.

Joe Rogan 22:17 Right.

Narrator 22:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:17 I think you can just go hunt them.

Narrator 22:19 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 22:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:19 Right. Okay.

Cameron Hanes 22:21 Um, talking about politics in different areas, it reminds me of in BC they outlawed grizzly hunting. And just, um, just recently, maybe last week, you know, a grizzly attacked a, a school group of kids.

Narrator 22:34 Oh, I read about that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:35 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 22:35 You see that?

Narrator 22:36 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 22:36 That, that's another thing. So we're... In the cities who control a lot of the voting power of the, that's a province, but states here, is that the cities determine it and people living in the cities don't know what the fuck's going on in the wilderness.

Narrator 22:49 No. That's like constant issue.

Cameron Hanes 22:49 So they vote, "Oh, I, I love lions, I love grizzly bear, I love wolves. We need to have more of them." Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains are actually dealing with this shit.

Narrator 22:57 Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 22:58 And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking BC specifically, Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions for, for British Columbia.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 23:06 They said no more grizzly hunting. And now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Did you ever meet my friend Mike Hawkridge?

Cameron Hanes 23:12 Yeah, we went to dinner at a, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:14 That's right.

Cameron Hanes 23:14 ... after a fight once.

Joe Rogan 23:15 That's right, at one of the steakhouses in Vegas, right?

Cameron Hanes 23:16 Yeah.

Narrator 23:17 Yep.

Joe Rogan 23:17 Mike's great. And, uh, he and Ben O'Brien took me on a moose hunt once.

Cameron Hanes 23:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:21 And he was telling me that... This was before the grizzly bear ban.

Cameron Hanes 23:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:26 He was like, "There's so many of them." And he had to shoot one from six feet away.

Narrator 23:31 Oh.

Joe Rogan 23:31 One was breaking into a cabin and he had to shoot it from six feet away. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 23:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:35 Dude, like there terrifying up there.

Cameron Hanes 23:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:39 They have so many of them. And they have wolves everywhere. We stumbled on a wolf kill. We got there, you know, it was probably a day old, I don't know, but it was nothing but hair.

Narrator 23:51 What, what was it-

Joe Rogan 23:51 That was the thing that shocked me.

Narrator 23:52 ... or what did it used to be?

Joe Rogan 23:53 It was a moose calf.

Narrator 23:54 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 23:55 And it was, there was nothing but hair. That was what was weird.

Narrator 23:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:58 It's like I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair.

Narrator 24:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Like the moose hair was everywhere.

Cameron Hanes 24:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Just everywhere.

Narrator 24:04 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 24:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:05 I thought it'd be like a dead animal but it was just...... basically bones.

Adam Greentree 24:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:09 And there was, like, a tiny ab- bit of meat on, you know, corners of the bones, and hair-

Adam Greentree 24:14 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:14 ... everywhere.

Adam Greentree 24:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Mm-hmm. It was just like they were (coughs) .

Adam Greentree 24:17 Like (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 24:17 Like, they were like (coughs) (growls) , just tearing into this moose calf and coughing up hair. (laughs) Yeah. I didn't see one when I was up there.

Adam Greentree 24:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:24 Although I think we did see one in the distance when we were at John and Jen's place. We saw one we thought it was a bear, or we thought it was a wolf run across the road. I was either-

Adam Greentree 24:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:33 ... with you or I was with Ben. Yeah. I don't remember who it was. But I've never seen a wolf in the wild.

Adam Greentree 24:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:38 Like, a real, like, absolute, like, "Look at him. Holy shit, it's a wolf." Oh, yeah.

Adam Greentree 24:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Greentree 24:42 They look at you in a certain way, hey?

Joe Rogan 24:44 Yeah. Oh, bro.

Adam Greentree 24:45 Like, the, one of the first trips I ever did to Canada was up in Northwest Territories. And I actually thought it was caribou coming down the river, like, just the color of the wolves, the s- similar to a caribou. And then I worked out they were wolves. And the guy that I was with, he's like, "Oh, it's a pack of wolves." And I'm like, "Can I call them in?"

Joe Rogan 25:02 Oh, God.

Adam Greentree 25:02 And he-

Joe Rogan 25:03 Adam Greentree, what's wrong with you?

Adam Greentree 25:04 He's like, "Yeah." And then I got up against a tree. And I just started doing, like, a call that I do for, like, a fox or a wild dog-

Joe Rogan 25:11 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 25:11 ... back in Australia. And this whole pack come in.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Like a wounded rabbit call?

Adam Greentree 25:14 You'd, you've never seen them come in. They were, like, up in our vision up there. Yeah, like a rabbit call, distressed rabbit. And the next minute they was just like right there.

Joe Rogan 25:23 Right there.

Adam Greentree 25:23 They were fully surrounding us and just come in. Yeah, it was, it was freaking cool. But I just remember they could fully see me at that point, and they were still just, like, looking through me, hey. And I was like, "Yeah, that's sick, yeah."

Joe Rogan 25:33 Bro, you ever hear Dudley's story? When Dudley, Dudley, um, and some guide that he was with in BC... I think it was BC, I'm pretty sure. Um, or no, it was Alberta. They killed a, I think it was a, I think it was a- an elk. But when they killed it, they killed it essentially on top of where the wolves den, like right there.

Adam Greentree 25:56 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:56 And wolves started circling around them. And the guide had, like, one round in his rifle. And Dudley had, like, two arrows or three arrows left, and they're surrounded by wolves. And Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow. And the, the, the guide shot one with a rifle. They shot three wolves.

Adam Greentree 26:14 Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Three wolves. He, he said they was, like, they were surrounding him.

Adam Greentree 26:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:19 He said it was the freakiest fucking thing he's ever experienced.

Adam Greentree 26:22 Yeah, it wouldn't have been a great feeling.

Joe Rogan 26:23 He told the story-

Adam Greentree 26:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:23 ... on the podcast, and it was just, it was like, "Fuck that, man."

Adam Greentree 26:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:27 "You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole?"

Adam Greentree 26:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:30 Like, "What is wrong with you?"

Adam Greentree 26:31 Two bullets and one luck.

Joe Rogan 26:32 Like, what are you, what?

Adam Greentree 26:34 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:34 What the fuck are you doing, man? You know there's wolves-

Adam Greentree 26:37 I killed a, um-

Joe Rogan 26:37 ... out there.

Adam Greentree 26:37 ... killed a bull in, uh, New Mexico one year, and I killed it late in the afternoon. So we did a pack out. This is just b- going back to the mountain lion story. We took... We did a pack out with meat, went back in in the dark with head torches. And as we're walking in, I'd seen a couple of eyes or whatever, and it was just, like, deer, mule deer or something like that. And then I'm like, "Oh, there's another deer up in front of us." And as we got closer, the, the eyes were too high. And it's just like, "Nah, that's not a deer." And it was a mountain lion up in the tree. Like, it was right up in the tree. There was the kill there.

Joe Rogan 27:13 (sighs)

Adam Greentree 27:13 That lion stayed in the tree while we grabbed more meat and packed it out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:17 You grabbed his meat?

Adam Greentree 27:19 But I'm just like- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 The mountain lion's meat?

Adam Greentree 27:21 Well, it was his kill.

Joe Rogan 27:22 Oh, it was your kill?

Adam Greentree 27:23 It was, it was my kill.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Oh.

Adam Greentree 27:24 And I was going back in for it and just thinking-

Joe Rogan 27:27 Oh, I thought he killed something else.

Adam Greentree 27:27 ... it was a set of deer eyes.

Joe Rogan 27:28 Oh my God.

Adam Greentree 27:28 And as we're walking up, the eyes were, like, up in the tree.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Oh my God. Oh my God.

Adam Greentree 27:31 And, um, that's... Like, so I've only seen two. That's one of them.

Joe Rogan 27:35 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 27:35 And it was in the dark. And I swear if it was daylight, I would have seen one in my whole entire hunting career, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:39 Did you see Cam's brother's story on, on Instagram? Oh my God. Cam's brother was running late at night in California, or at night in California.

Adam Greentree 27:48 Oh, it's far. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:49 And wha- should we play it? Yeah. Did we ever play it on the show?

Adam Greentree 27:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:52 I think we might have. We might have. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. It's- I know you mentioned it. Fucking terrifying. Yeah, yeah.

Adam Greentree 28:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:00 It's terrifying.

Adam Greentree 28:01 I've never seen that in Australia, by the way.

Joe Rogan 28:03 What's your brother's name again? Taylor. Taylor Sp- it, it's like T-Spike on- Yeah. Yeah, Taylor. Yeah. So it's, uh, my S- it's... My stepdad and mom had two kids, Taylor and Megan. Oh, okay. So those, those are my brothers, or brother and sister. And then me- And he does ultras too, right? Yeah, he's, he's actually really good. Yeah. Really good. He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in. Yeah, he's a stud. You know? He had to get it in at night.

Adam Greentree 28:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:26 He's definitely a stud. He, uh, he did a 300-mile race just last year. He got... He was competing trying to win the thing, of course, but got second. Wow! The Arizona Monster 300.

Adam Greentree 28:35 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 28:36 Oh my God. (laughs) So that's- That hurts my hips and my joints just... That's, that's the level he's at. Oh, that's sick.

Adam Greentree 28:42 300 miles or 300 kilometers?

Joe Rogan 28:44 Miles.

Adam Greentree 28:44 That makes it so much worse. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:46 Yeah (laughs) . You were thinking about kilometers? I, I thought you were an American now.

Adam Greentree 28:50 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 28:50 Didn't they convert you? Yeah (laughs) . I'm really there. We were trying to teach you inches the other night.

Adam Greentree 28:53 I've got shit under my lip for some reason (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 28:55 (laughs) It's an American thing.

Adam Greentree 28:56 I know inches, baby.

Joe Rogan 28:57 You guys don't have pouches? It's probably illegal over there. Probably.

Adam Greentree 29:00 Probably.

Joe Rogan 29:01 Yeah, they take it away.

Adam Greentree 29:01 Yeah, government's gonna control it.

Joe Rogan 29:03 How- yeah, how's that working out? You can, you can do that, but you have to wear a mask too (laughs) . Did you find Taylor's, uh, video?

Adam Greentree 29:09 No.

Joe Rogan 29:09 It's o- I think it's on his Instagram. Yeah, it is. It's definitely... Did I send it to you at one point in time maybe?

Narrator 29:14 I, I just found a video of you talking about it.

Joe Rogan 29:16 Ah. Oh.

Adam Greentree 29:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:17 It's... Unless he took it down. I don't think he took it down. What is his Instagram handle? It's T-Spike, something like that. T-Spike something. Yeah, I'll find it.

Adam Greentree 29:26 T-Spike 300 miles.

Narrator 29:27 I just had, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Coming in second place in 300 miles is bananas.

Adam Greentree 29:32 Oh, that's insane.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Yeah. And meanwhile how, how much difference was there between him and number one? I think a couple hours probably. Oh, God.

Adam Greentree 29:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 29:39 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 29:39 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 29:40 Oh, God. But it took a- Oh, God. I think he did it in 88 hours. That is nuts, man.

Adam Greentree 29:46 That's a serious effort.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Yeah. Tha- that is a serious effort. There's some, there's some freaks out there for sure.

Adam Greentree 29:51 I'll do it one day.

Joe Rogan 29:52 He's one of them. Are you gonna do it one day for real?

Adam Greentree 29:54 Yeah, t- p-

Joe Rogan 29:55 On Instagram.

Adam Greentree 29:55 ... a couple more videos as well will be good.

Narrator 29:57 I know where the video is.

Joe Rogan 29:58 What, Jamie?

Narrator 29:58 I don't know where the video is.

Joe Rogan 29:59 Okay, I'll find it. I'll find it. Yeah, he's... Oh, it's me talking about it. That's far. Oh, he must have reshared that or something. Yeah, here it is. I found it right away.

Narrator 30:06 Which, uh-

Joe Rogan 30:07 It's just his face when you see his face-

Narrator 30:09 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:09 ... staring at the camera.

Narrator 30:10 Okay, I got it.

Joe Rogan 30:10 It's his lion... Oh, you got it? Okay.

Narrator 30:12 All right, awesome.

Joe Rogan 30:12 It's his lion update. Yeah, this is it. Give me some volume.

Adam Greentree 30:15 ... restless night of this reoccurring dream of these green eyes hot on my tail. I, uh, was coming down the trail last night, just after dark, and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail. I mean, right on the side of the trail. What I thought was a coyote. I just kinda yelled, and then when it stood up, I realized it was a fucking mountain lion.

30:36 (laughs)

30:37 Uh, I took off running as hard as I could, and I looked over my shoulder and it was right behind me. I ran for probably 100 yards and realized it wasn't giving up. And I turned around and I kicked rocks and I jumped up and down, and I screamed at the top of my lungs, and this thing did not care.

30:55 Mm-hmm.

30:55 I did that a few times to the point that, at one point, I almost thought, "I'm just gonna lay down here and die, because I'm not gonna outrun this fucking thing." Another time, it got really close to me, and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it. Uh, and I turned and I screamed and I kicked rocks. I mean, to the point it was, I mean, it was right, right there. And I finally decided, well, you just gotta run. Run for your fucking life. Um, I've done some crazy shit in my life. I've been pretty scared. But this? This was next level. This was next level. It terrified me. Um, you know, I- I think maybe if I'd had a gun, I could've done something. Uh, pepper spray, I- I don't think it- it- it was so close, that I would've probably pepper sprayed myself. So, I don't know. Um, I was a half mile from the city, uh, in Lake Forest, California. I mean, like, s- straight up, I could hear dogs barking and at one point, I thought maybe that's what kinda detoured it. But this thing didn't care. Um, so this morning, I'm gonna ride the bike. Um, probably won't go back out there in the dark. Um, I did wait around for the sheriff's department and fish and game, um, because there was other hikers on the trail that were above me that would have had to come down, and I- I- I just don't know how other people would've responded. Uh, like I said, I've done some scary shit. Um, I've been in the woods my whole life. But this? This was next level. It was terrifying. But I'm all good. Um, back at it, right? Uh, I guess if this only happens one time in your life, I got it out of the way. I'm a lucky fucker.

32:41 (laughs)

32:41 Have a good day, all. Keep at it.

32:42 Doesn't work like that.

Joe Rogan 32:43 Oof.

Adam Greentree 32:44 (laughs)

32:44 (laughs)

32:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Oof.

Adam Greentree 32:46 Oh, that's wild.

Joe Rogan 32:48 That is the consequences of letting monsters live in your neighborhood.

Adam Greentree 32:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:52 That's real.

Adam Greentree 32:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:53 And e- ev- all these wilderness-loving people, like, I guarantee you you're not out there as much as that guy is.

Adam Greentree 32:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:59 I guarantee you're not out there as much as you are or you are. That's the difference between people that really understand what we're talking about, and people that are looking at this from this knee-jerk love and compassion for nature r- perspective. Like-

Adam Greentree 33:11 Well, back to what Cam said. It's like, the- the majority of the votes are people that don't get in that environment.

Joe Rogan 33:17 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 33:17 You know, and it's not just about hunting. That's for farmers anywhere, as well. There's people in the city that are making votes for people that live in the country, and the lifestyle is completely different.

Joe Rogan 33:26 And they don't understand what they're talking about, especially the BC ban. "Look, we're gonna ban trophy hunting. Trophy hunting's bad."

Adam Greentree 33:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:33 Now, but what about monster control?

Adam Greentree 33:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:35 Isn't that good? I'm on fucking team people, okay?

Adam Greentree 33:37 Yeah. (laughs)

33:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:38 I love animals, but I am on team people. You know?

Adam Greentree 33:41 Imagine if they knew how soft we were, they don't have to spit out hair.

Joe Rogan 33:47 No. (laughs)

Adam Greentree 33:47 (laughs) Yeah.

33:47 Like, the flesh is right here. It's soft. It's so easy to get into.

Joe Rogan 33:51 Our stomach? Because they usually go in at the stomach, you know, or the abs.

Adam Greentree 33:54 Oh, it's a soft bit.

Joe Rogan 33:55 It's like our stomach, how soft does our-

Adam Greentree 33:56 Straight for the organs. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:57 Yeah, that's right. Right to the good stuff, you know? Yeah. Not good. And it's like-

Adam Greentree 34:01 If they knew-

Joe Rogan 34:01 Even-

Adam Greentree 34:02 ... not good.

Joe Rogan 34:02 I don't think people ... Like, even a dog can turn into, like ... Uh, I killed a buck, you know, before we went on that last hunt. I killed a buck and, like, for the treat for the dog, you cut off the nuts, give them the nuts. So it's got hide on it, it's got the- the buck's nuts, basically.

Adam Greentree 34:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:20 Dog takes off, so they're just, like, ripping into it. It's like delicacy, right? That's just a normal dog.

Adam Greentree 34:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:26 So, a lion who's born and bred to kill, I mean, that's just the level of what animals-

Adam Greentree 34:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 ... do.

Adam Greentree 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 You're r- your liver is a rib eye and they haven't eaten in a week.

Adam Greentree 34:38 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 You're like, "Oh, baby."

Adam Greentree 34:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 "Look at that liver."

Adam Greentree 34:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:42 "It's right there." (choking sounds)

Adam Greentree 34:43 Yeah. And those-

Joe Rogan 34:45 Bleh.

Adam Greentree 34:46 They- the dogs there at that-

Joe Rogan 34:47 So scary.

Adam Greentree 34:48 ... at that deer camp, you give them, like, a part of the, I don't know, there's some skin. It's not the flank steak, but it's just some skin there- Yeah.

34:56 Mm-hmm.

34:56 ... that sometimes you cut off that goes over the stomach. And, uh, run off, eat that, eat pounds and pounds of meat. Oh, yeah.

35:03 A regular dog. So a lion-

Joe Rogan 35:05 (coughs)

Adam Greentree 35:05 Yeah, they'll eat ... What they do is they just eat as much meat as they can, and they just kind of lay around.

35:09 Yeah.

35:09 So that's the time to actually run from a lion, is after a big meal.

35:13 Mm-hmm.

35:14 You know what I mean? 'Cause their stomachs are full of meat. Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him had just killed a deer and was full of protein, but, you know, they still hunt.

35:23 Yeah.

35:23 That's what they do. It's their instinct, but sometimes you can time it right and maybe that's saves your life.

Joe Rogan 35:29 Yeah, jeez. They don't-

Adam Greentree 35:30 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 35:30 That's not a risk we should be taking.

Adam Greentree 35:32 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:33 This is-

Adam Greentree 35:33 If you can avoid it, it's always better. It's always good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:34 This is the thing. It's, like, they're so hard to find. People don't understand. You're not gonna put a dent in their population.

Adam Greentree 35:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:40 This is not like any other ... It's not like deer. You can depopulate a deer, like, an environment of deer. If you went crazy and hunted them all and you said, "Let's eradicate all the deer. Every hunter, you could shoot as many deer as you want. Just, let's go do it right now."

Adam Greentree 35:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:56 You could get rid of all the deer. You ain't ever doing that with cats.

Adam Greentree 35:59 Yeah.

35:59 No.

35:59 They're too sneaky.

36:00 Not now.

Joe Rogan 36:01 Not now.

Adam Greentree 36:01 Like with deer, even in Australia with buffalo, you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff. Pigs here.

36:08 Mm-hmm.

36:08 Deer. Buffalo down there. Uh, the water buffalo, but-

Cameron Hanes 36:12 You're not doing helicopter killing of lions.

Adam Greentree 36:16 Yeah, no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:17 You can do wolves.

Cameron Hanes 36:18 You can do wolves.

Joe Rogan 36:18 They'll- they'll lower wolf populations that way.

Cameron Hanes 36:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:20 And they do. They do in some parts of the world.

Cameron Hanes 36:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:22 They do in Alaska, right?

Cameron Hanes 36:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:24 Th- they do wolf kills from helicopters.

Cameron Hanes 36:26 Yeah. And I- and yeah, I mean, lions are just tough. But-

Joe Rogan 36:30 They're so fucking sneaky.

Cameron Hanes 36:32 I did, uh, I didn't even realize this, but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers that Jamie pulled up, um, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year, but we never get to it.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Right.

Adam Greentree 36:42 True.

Cameron Hanes 36:42 So what that means is we're not meeting our objective of lion kills. That means there's more and more lions-

Joe Rogan 36:48 Wait.

Cameron Hanes 36:48 ... ever- every year.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Don't they factor that into the te- amount of tags they give, though? That there's gonna be a limited amount of success, so they give more tags than there will be, like, than they actually need to kill?

Cameron Hanes 36:57 For lions or for-

Joe Rogan 36:58 For lions, do they do that?

Cameron Hanes 37:00 Oh yeah, I mean, I'm not sure how th- how they do it. It's supposed to be, like, a balance, you know?

Joe Rogan 37:03 Right.

Cameron Hanes 37:03 I mean, if- if- but the- what happens is not enough lions are getting killed, so there's too many lions, so that means the lions are killing too many deer. No, 'cause there's-

Adam Greentree 37:13 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 37:13 The lion number is too high.

Joe Rogan 37:15 Right.

Cameron Hanes 37:15 And that's what's kinda happening. There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time that are terrible now.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Well, here's a perfect example. Where I used to live in California, you guys have been to my house.

Adam Greentree 37:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 Lot of land, lot of woods.

Adam Greentree 37:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:27 Lot of, like, there's a lot of, like, wildlife out there. Good luck finding a deer.

Adam Greentree 37:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:32 You might find two, three in a month.

Adam Greentree 37:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:36 In a month. I see deer every fucking day out here.

Adam Greentree 37:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:39 I see 'em every day. You know why? No mountain lions-

Adam Greentree 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:41 ... and you could shoot 'em. California has a mountain lion problem. Like, it's a real problem.

Cameron Hanes 37:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 The place, uh, the- the Tejon Ranch, that place? They had a- a camera out in front of one of their ponds, and they got 16 different mountain lions-

Adam Greentree 37:56 Wow. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:56 ... on that camera. 16.

Cameron Hanes 37:58 Yeah. And what the people in L.A., they- they have no idea what's going o- but they're voting.

Joe Rogan 38:04 Right.

Cameron Hanes 38:05 That's who controls what's-

Adam Greentree 38:06 And voting with their hearts.

Cameron Hanes 38:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:07 And so, yeah, they're vote- well, and they're, and they're good people, and I would've voted with them.

Adam Greentree 38:10 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 38:10 Right? Okay? If I had never been hunting and never been in the woods, I would've voted with them. Maybe not, maybe not because I'm a little fucking skeptical-

Adam Greentree 38:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:18 ... of people's wisdom, and I probably would've looked into it a little bit and- and thought about what it would be like to get eaten by a mountain lion and go, "Fuck, what are you- what the fuck are we talking about?"

Cameron Hanes 38:26 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 38:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:27 Kill these goddamn things.

Adam Greentree 38:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:29 Are you fucking crazy? Don't kill 'em all. You don't have-

Cameron Hanes 38:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:31 ... to kill 'em all. M- th- they're gonna exist in the woods where they're supposed to be.

Adam Greentree 38:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:35 They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.

Cameron Hanes 38:37 Right.

Adam Greentree 38:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:37 Okay, they're not supposed to be wandering around the fucking Hollywood Hills, like that one that I have the big picture of.

Cameron Hanes 38:42 I know. It's epic.

Joe Rogan 38:42 That one's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 38:44 That lion, that picture is insane.

Joe Rogan 38:46 Insane.

Cameron Hanes 38:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:46 The Hollywood sign behind him-

Cameron Hanes 38:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:48 ... and he's wearing a collar. That picture, to me, embodies, like, everything that's wrong with California.

Adam Greentree 38:53 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 38:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:53 Like, you know where he is, and he's in the neighborhood where people live, and you just put a collar on him?

Cameron Hanes 38:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:59 So you can track him when he's fucking killing dogs?

Cameron Hanes 39:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:01 Like, wha- what are you saying?

Cameron Hanes 39:03 Mm-hmm, right.

Joe Rogan 39:03 You know how many k- look at that photo.

Cameron Hanes 39:05 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 39:06 That is a sick photo. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:07 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 39:07 That is an amaz- that's one of the most amazing photos ever.

Joe Rogan 39:10 Ever taken.

Adam Greentree 39:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:11 When- as soon as I saw that photo, I'm like, "Oh my God, we have to buy a print."

Cameron Hanes 39:14 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 39:14 What do you think he's thinking?

Joe Rogan 39:15 We ordered it from the photographer. What is he thinking? "What am I gonna kill next?"

Adam Greentree 39:18 (laughs) What breed of-

Cameron Hanes 39:19 And why is this fucking thing on my neck?

Adam Greentree 39:20 What breed of dog is the most tastiest? (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 39:21 That's- that's right above where Huberman used to live. I mean-

Joe Rogan 39:25 Oh, dude, it's right there. By the way, that's, like, we filmed Fear Factor out there a bunch of times.

Cameron Hanes 39:30 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 39:30 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 39:30 Look at that fucker. Look at-

Cameron Hanes 39:32 Oh, I know.

Joe Rogan 39:32 Oh my God, look at his face.

Adam Greentree 39:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:35 Imagine wandering into that. That thing is so big.

Cameron Hanes 39:38 How sick of a photo is that?

Joe Rogan 39:40 Amazing.

Cameron Hanes 39:41 God, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:41 And it's all camera traps.

Cameron Hanes 39:43 Yeah. So, but here's what's so critical, and you know, hunters, w- we can be our own worst enemies. But part of what, uh, discussions like this and talking about how it actually works is so important. It's not for other hunters. It's for people who don't hunt who do vote.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Right.

Cameron Hanes 39:59 You know? It's just, hey, let's- let's just educate-

Adam Greentree 40:01 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:01 ... people who don't understand, and it's not- it's not your fault you don't understand. You haven't hunted your whole life. That's okay.

Joe Rogan 40:06 Right.

Cameron Hanes 40:06 But just listen to what we're saying and just say, like, hey, when that vote comes up and it's like we're talking about, you know, being able to- to hunt lions with dogs or b- or black bear with bait.

Adam Greentree 40:15 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 40:15 Let's think about, hey, there's repercussions if we don't allow this.

Adam Greentree 40:19 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:19 You know?

Joe Rogan 40:20 They don't- just don't know what it is.

Cameron Hanes 40:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:22 And it sounds cruel. Lions with dogs. Like, oh, that's not even fair.

Adam Greentree 40:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:26 You wanna hu- hunt it with a spear. If you wanna hunt it like we used to hunt 'em, hunt it with a spear.

Cameron Hanes 40:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Bear ha-

Cameron Hanes 40:31 With your bare hand. No, bare hands.

Joe Rogan 40:33 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 40:33 Bare hands.

Cameron Hanes 40:33 That's what I see. Kill with your bare hands.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Use your bare hands. That's the dumbest argument.

Adam Greentree 40:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:38 That's the dumbest- how do you think we got to the point where we don't have fangs, you fucking dolt?

Adam Greentree 40:42 Mm-hmm. And this-

Joe Rogan 40:43 We got there, we evolved past that because we figured out weapons, okay?

Cameron Hanes 40:47 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 40:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:48 And that's why we have cities.

Cameron Hanes 40:50 And- and cavemen never killed shit with their hands.

Adam Greentree 40:51 No, no.

Joe Rogan 40:52 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 40:52 At least they had a fucking wooden spear.

Adam Greentree 40:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:54 So what are you talking about, bare hands?

Joe Rogan 40:56 It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time.

Adam Greentree 40:58 And- and the conversation-

Joe Rogan 40:58 And it's also people that don't understand that we would've never had civilization if we didn't do this.

Adam Greentree 41:02 Yeah, exactly. And the con-

Joe Rogan 41:03 It wouldn't exist.

Adam Greentree 41:04 The conversation doesn't come from a want perspective from me. I've got no desire to hunt a mount- mountain lion again. I don't. But as someone that's in the know, because I have before-

Joe Rogan 41:15 Mm-hmm.

Adam Greentree 41:15 ... you know, and I wanted to educate myself. Prior to that hunt, I was doing as much reading as I could to find out, do I feel good about this? Is, yeah, so it's not like I w- I want 'em still on the list to hunt because I wanna go and do it again. I don't have a desire to do that again myself. But I do see that it's good management. You know, and instead of them-

Cameron Hanes 41:34 It's necessary.

Adam Greentree 41:34 ... in- instead of them being culled and not utilized, you know, and it actually costing money, you know, there's money going into conservation at that point from the hunter. And the meat's utilized, you know, i- and as you mentioned, in- in that case, I gave that meat to a lot of people because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well. You know?

Cameron Hanes 41:53 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 41:53 As in, 'cause you do, you sort of think of a mountain lion, you're like, "Ugh." The meat was amazing.

Cameron Hanes 41:58 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 41:58 Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.

Cameron Hanes 41:59 Yeah. I- I mean, even- even if- so just say...... they, they didn't require you to take the meat and you didn't, and you didn't eat it. Still, they need to be killed.

Adam Greentree 42:08 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 42:08 There's, all there is to it. Just to make the, the deer and elk population, just to make it work like it has to work because humans... People always say, "Well, Mother Nature will take care of itself." It's like, no, humans have encroached on this habitat. That's why we need to control this. This isn't, like, the wide open West that it once was where, yeah, maybe it'd work out eventually. It's not gonna work out.

Joe Rogan 42:27 They were here first.

Cameron Hanes 42:29 Yeah. (laughs)

Adam Greentree 42:30 (laughs) Yeah. No.

Joe Rogan 42:30 They were here first.

Adam Greentree 42:31 We're part of the system, 100%.

Cameron Hanes 42:32 And, and Adam, you know, he said he's killed one. He doesn't plan on killing another. I've never killed one. I've never killed a lion in my entire life, but I know it's important.

Adam Greentree 42:41 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 42:41 So it's not like I'm this big lion hunter that I just have this passion for doing it and I want to kill as many as possible.

Adam Greentree 42:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 42:47 Never even killed one. But I know that we have to kill them.

Adam Greentree 42:50 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 42:50 And in Colorado there, that's one thing, you know, you talk about sexing the animal up on, up in the tree 'cause you can see what it is, male, female. You don't... When I hunted them, I did hunt them, I didn't kill, but you could kill any lion, essentially, if it didn't have... You know, it couldn't be a female with cubs but, or kittens. But, um, you look at them in the tree and you can decide, "Oh, that's a female, probably not the best kill. Let's kill an old male," 'cause it's just-

Adam Greentree 43:14 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 43:14 ... that's how the... It just works better that way, taking old males out. And, but you can do that. And same thing with baiting bear. A bear comes in. A bear is really tough to tell whether it's a boar or a sow, it's male or female, for those that don't know. But a bait, when you're looking very closely, you can see, "Oh, that's an old male, that's the one I want to take."

Adam Greentree 43:32 Yeah. Yeah, there's a method behind it.

Cameron Hanes 43:34 So that's why, that's why there's... It's not just random, like, I'm rifle hunting that's 400 yards away, running, and you kill, like, a bear and it has, it has cubs. You didn't realize it had cubs because the cubs are in a tree somewhere that the sow left. So that's where baiting is actually the best way to manage these numbers.

Adam Greentree 43:49 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 43:49 And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts and this and that and the bear comes in. I mean, yeah, you could turn them out like that or you could say, "No, we're targeting the, the right animal to make this work the best it, best way it can."

Joe Rogan 44:02 Well, people need to understand that wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up and the rules that they apply, especially the rational rules like that, they exist because it's the only effective way to hunt these things. Like, there, you, you don't use dogs to hunt elk. You know what I'm saying?

Cameron Hanes 44:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:17 It's like they... Because it doesn't seem right, right?

Adam Greentree 44:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:19 There's, there's one effective way to get these mountain lions and you gotta tree them. You know, if you don't, if you don't have that option and you're bowhunting, you have to stumble upon one.

Cameron Hanes 44:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:28 And they're not gonna... They're gonna know you're coming forever before you know they're there.

Adam Greentree 44:33 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:34 Forever.

Adam Greentree 44:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:35 Hundreds of yards away. They're gonna smell you, they'll hear something, they'll turn and look at it. They have amazing eyesight.

Adam Greentree 44:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:42 You know? Like, you're, you're not finding them. And if you want to keep the populations in check, there's... Like, California's got a bear problem too.

Adam Greentree 44:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:48 And part of their bear problem is you, you, you can't use dogs anymore.

Cameron Hanes 44:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:52 That was the only way they could really control populations in a lot of these places.

Cameron Hanes 44:56 Dogs are bai- are baiting. Um, hey Jamie, I got another project. So Cam Canaday, you spell it with a K. Uh, he w-... As we were talking about it, he had a deer tag, he was deer hunting. This l-... In, in Oregon, this is what you do, you just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you. But, uh, he, uh, killed this giant lion. He was deer hunting. This lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away (laughs) and he's just like, "I got a lion tag, perfect." Boom. Got, put a perfect arrow in this giant lion. But look at this thing. And he's a big dude.

Adam Greentree 45:27 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 45:28 He put-

Adam Greentree 45:28 That is a slob.

Cameron Hanes 45:29 He, he played for the Steelers for, like, six years, uh, uh-

Joe Rogan 45:32 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 45:32 ... in the NFL.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Look at the size of its paws.

Cameron Hanes 45:34 And... Yeah, so that was just like a happen chance. That's how you get them in Oregon-

Adam Greentree 45:38 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 45:38 ... because you can't use dogs, you can't do anything else. So that lion just, just jumped up there and he made a perfect shot on it.

Joe Rogan 45:45 That's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 45:46 Deer hunting. But look at that big thing.

Joe Rogan 45:48 God.

Cameron Hanes 45:49 Yeah. Pretty nuts. (laughs) And like I said, Cam's like 6'4", I don't know, 230?

Joe Rogan 45:56 You ever see the one Derek Wolf killed?

Cameron Hanes 45:58 Yeah, that was a giant one too.

Joe Rogan 45:59 Giant one. So the Derek Wolf story is a great one too because he took so much heat online about it. People were so angry at him that he did that. And it's just people that don't understand-

Adam Greentree 46:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:08 ... why it's necessary. Look at... And first of all, if you know Derek, Derek's a fucking legit viking.

Cameron Hanes 46:13 (laughs) That's, uh, crank.

Joe Rogan 46:14 He's a legit viking. That guy is a giant human being. So for him to be holding... Is there another picture where you see the full-length picture?

Cameron Hanes 46:23 I think that one is, like-

Joe Rogan 46:23 That's it. There's the full-length picture.

Cameron Hanes 46:24 180 pounds or something.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Look at the size of that fucking thing.

Cameron Hanes 46:28 Yeah, so you... And I don't know what the numbers are, but you'd think a lion kills... Uh, especially a lion that big has to basically kill a deer every week.

Adam Greentree 46:37 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 46:37 Right? So that's 365 deer a year that thing has killed. Or no, not that-

Joe Rogan 46:42 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 46:42 No, 52 deer a year, but-

Joe Rogan 46:45 (laughs) Imagine there's a deer a day.

Cameron Hanes 46:46 ... every day. No, but-

Joe Rogan 46:47 But do you know the wolf thing?

Adam Greentree 46:48 Possibly.

Joe Rogan 46:49 They say-

Cameron Hanes 46:50 What?

Joe Rogan 46:50 ... lions are killing more deer now than ever in places where there's wolves, because the wolves scare the lion off-

Cameron Hanes 46:55 Oh, they take them.

Joe Rogan 46:55 ... the kill.

Cameron Hanes 46:55 The wolves steal them.

Adam Greentree 46:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:56 All the time. They steal them all the time. So the lions just give up and they go kill another one.

Cameron Hanes 46:59 Mm-hmm. Right.

Joe Rogan 47:00 'Cause they can kill way easier than the deer can.

Adam Greentree 47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:02 They're way more effective killers.

Cameron Hanes 47:03 Yeah. So think about... So 50, say 50 lion, or 50 deer a year for each lion. How many lions are in Colorado?

Adam Greentree 47:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:10 A lot. A lot.

Cameron Hanes 47:12 You know?

Joe Rogan 47:12 Yeah, a lot.

Cameron Hanes 47:12 I mean, that's a lot of fucking deer, or, or elk calves, or... Something's being killed.

Adam Greentree 47:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:18 And-

Adam Greentree 47:18 Australia has got a real bad problem with shark population now.

Cameron Hanes 47:21 Mm-hmm.

Adam Greentree 47:22 And it's like... A- and I'm taking it there because what's happening is for, like, a really good eating fish like a red emperor, um, you'll only get, like, five red emperor. That's your ta- that's your quota for the day. You can only catch five. And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a red emperor and the sharks will just take it off the line. So you don't have a red emperor in the boat anymore, but one's dead 'cause a shark's got it.

Cameron Hanes 47:47 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 47:48 So you keep fishing. And then so now, the red emperor numbers are declining because sharks, that's their f-... Like, their favorite fish to jump, to grab off a line. You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat 'cause the sharks aren't going for it. But if it's a red fish-

Cameron Hanes 48:01 Mm-hmm.

Adam Greentree 48:01 ... the sharks are taking it constantly. And then so what's happened is because there's been a ban on shark fishing-... shark numbers have gotten out of control. So now red emperor numbers have plummeted because the sharks are just eating them constantly.

Joe Rogan 48:15 How many people in Australia get killed by sharks every year?

Adam Greentree 48:18 There's been a few this year already. Yeah. I actually just had, uh, had my girlfriend out a couple of, oh, maybe a month or two ago, and I took her to this beautiful beach and it was, it was awesome. As soon as we got there, there was dolphins jumping out of the water and whatnot. Anyway, we never went for a swim just because of how the conditions were. And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach.

Joe Rogan 48:40 (inhales deeply)

Adam Greentree 48:40 And her partner may have died as well, I didn't follow up on the story, but her partner got attacked as well but got out of the water.

Joe Rogan 48:47 (inhales deeply)

Adam Greentree 48:48 Um, and it's great whites mostly on the East Coast.

Joe Rogan 48:51 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 48:51 Wow.

Adam Greentree 48:52 They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment.

Joe Rogan 48:54 Again, kill them. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 48:56 But-

Adam Greentree 48:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:56 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 48:57 It's, it's the bleeding hearts that are making the boats.

Joe Rogan 49:01 Four confirmed fatal shark attacks in 2025 so far with some trackers listing four or five deaths depending on how many incidents are cl- or how incidents are classified.

Adam Greentree 49:10 Hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:11 And, but think about how much less people are out there on the water-

Adam Greentree 49:16 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:16 ... than are on the ground.

Cameron Hanes 49:17 Oh, yeah.

Adam Greentree 49:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:17 That's the thing.

Adam Greentree 49:18 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:18 It's a small number.

Joe Rogan 49:19 Some people go, "There's only four shark attacks a year."

Adam Greentree 49:21 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:21 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 49:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Right. But how many people are in the water?

Cameron Hanes 49:23 Yeah, out of 500 people.

Joe Rogan 49:25 Yeah. It's not a lot of people in the water swimming out there.

Adam Greentree 49:26 Yeah. We have a horrible way to go.

Joe Rogan 49:28 Oh, good Lord.

Cameron Hanes 49:30 Yeah. I would say-

Adam Greentree 49:30 It's an absolute monster, the ocean.

Joe Rogan 49:32 Ugh.

Cameron Hanes 49:33 Yeah. Is- isn't it weird to think that, uh... I mean, most society doesn't know anything about the wild these days, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 49:41 Yeah. We're domesticated.

Cameron Hanes 49:43 Yeah. So it's... But even, like... I don't know. I, I always say that... And I mean, we talked about this, I'm pretty sure, 'cause I talk about it all the time. But, like, I always think that society, like, this regular life here is fake. It's like it's not even, not even real, it's not even how humans were designed to, to live and survive.

Adam Greentree 50:03 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 50:03 Where the wild is actually where... that's how, that's what we're designed to do, live in the mountains or, or hunt and survive, things like that. And so the fake life, I don't know, it's just crazy to me to think about that-

Joe Rogan 50:17 The fake life is what we think of as the real life.

Cameron Hanes 50:19 Yeah, is the real life.

Adam Greentree 50:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 50:20 And it's not, it's not real. It's, like, what we're doing, yeah, it's just not, not real life.

Adam Greentree 50:26 We're, we're, yeah. We're, we're made to live in a society that's not by mind or your design.

Cameron Hanes 50:30 Right.

Adam Greentree 50:31 You know? And it's sort of like... And that, that's... I always feel out of it in society because I just feel like it's not for me. But it is, it's here and we got to live in it. I do like going to the rest of the world and getting a good injection. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:45 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 50:45 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 50:45 So... But I just want to go when I want to go, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:48 Yeah, that's the s- that's the way to do it. Attack it from the outside.

Cameron Hanes 50:51 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 50:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Go in, go to a nice restaurant, get back out to the country.

Adam Greentree 50:54 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 50:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:54 And just fucking relax.

Adam Greentree 50:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:56 It's better for people. You ever see that, um, sp- uh, the old days of Vice, when Vice used to do really cool stuff?

Adam Greentree 51:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:03 They had Vice Guide to Travel. And, uh, there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle and this dude is... He's been there since the 1970s. He got a job up there and got permitted where he's, like, grandfathered in to allow to live in a small cabin up there, like the last guy there. He has, like, a permit on his door.

Adam Greentree 51:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:22 And this guy has been living up there ever since... He saw 9/11 in a photograph, like, a year after it happened.

Adam Greentree 51:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Had no idea what was going on. Very smart guy. Like, intelligent, interesting guy. And lives up there, uh, with his wife, and all he does is hunt caribou and fish. And he talks about it and he's like, "This is how people are supposed to live." Like, when you... He's not, like... He's a very intelligent guy. So, like, when he's talking about it, he's talking it from, like, in, in internal programming. Like, this is, like... This feeling that you get living like this is how people are supposed to live. And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled and it feels normal. Whereas most people don't feel normal.

Adam Greentree 52:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Most people are depressed, they have anxiety, they're worried about their career, they're worried about all the stuff that is, like, human-created. They're worried about our, our, their social status, whether or not they're ostracized from the neighborhood or people like them anymore because their political beliefs or whatever the fuck it is.

Adam Greentree 52:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:19 There's none of that out there.

Adam Greentree 52:20 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 52:20 There's none of that because it's w- that's the way we were designed. But if we want all the things that we enjoy, like fucking Starlink and cellphones, like, you have to have this weird fake world that we've created, the human-created world. But it's not conducive to, like, a healthy mindset for most people. It's not normal.

Adam Greentree 52:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:39 And so all the... I, I, I have this f- th- thought about why exercise is so important for people's mental health, is I think at the very least what it does is it gives you, like, the physical exertion that your body requires. But I think your body requires a connection as well. And that's what we're missing.

Adam Greentree 53:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:02 We're missing the natural world connection. And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise. You can get some of that-

Adam Greentree 53:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:10 ... out of, like, doing... But your body's l- literally designed to have to move and to complete tasks in order to survive. And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou, building a house, surviving, like, making a homestead, growing a garden. Like, this is a normal way we are. But we're moving into this abnormal way.

Adam Greentree 53:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:31 And along the way, people are losing their fucking marbles. Everyone's crazy. No one knows what a woman is anymore.

Adam Greentree 53:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:37 Like, everyone, like, literally out of their fucking mind.

Cameron Hanes 53:39 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 53:40 That's-

Joe Rogan 53:40 Out of their mind with the, the, "If the left win, the- the democracy will fall. If the right win, we're all gonna be Nazis." And it's just chaos.

Adam Greentree 53:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:48 And none of it is normal, none of it is natural. And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people is 'cause we're not designed for it.

Adam Greentree 53:55 I feel it. I know Cam's the same. But, like, it's just, like, time doing those things that are usually in a quieter environment, in a more natural environment. Like, I mentally feel better-

Cameron Hanes 54:06 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 54:06 ... every time. And then-... uh, I al- I almost feel myself slipping when I come back to the city, you know? And it's just like, you sort of start letting your guard down. You just slip back into it, and you're like, "This is... I don't, I'm not enjoying this." And then you go back out hunting for us or camping or whatever it is, and then I do, I feel revitalized.

Joe Rogan 54:24 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 54:24 I feel healthier. Mentally and physically, I feel healthier. And then, but adding all the other things to it, you know, like you talk about, like, you know, exercise and... Yeah, it does touch on it, and I, and I think all those little things help, but to really get out in fresh air is the big one for me, where it's just... I do, I feel more flow state.

Joe Rogan 54:43 I wonder if, like... I'm sure in na- like, uh, uh, primitive man felt emotions, for sure, but do you think they felt depressed? No. I m- I think that-

Cameron Hanes 54:54 Do you... You know what I mean?

Adam Greentree 54:55 I feel like they were too busy.

Joe Rogan 54:57 Right.

Cameron Hanes 54:57 I think that-

Adam Greentree 54:57 To survive, eat.

Cameron Hanes 54:58 Peo- I think people... I think this is part of this fake society, is like, "Are you happy? Are you happy?" It's like, happy? What the fuck is happy?

Adam Greentree 55:06 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 55:06 I want to be useful, out there. I want to do s- do something.

Adam Greentree 55:11 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 55:11 I'm not happy, sa- I'm nothing.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Right, what is happy?

Cameron Hanes 55:15 Don't-

Joe Rogan 55:15 Right?

Adam Greentree 55:15 Yeah, that's weird.

Cameron Hanes 55:16 Yeah. I'm content just being.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Right. I feel-

Cameron Hanes 55:18 Can you be content just being?

Adam Greentree 55:19 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 55:20 When you're in the m- in the mountains, carrying your bow, glassing, looking, drinking, eating, looking for a place to sleep, what is that? That's what I want. I don't know what is hap-

Adam Greentree 55:32 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 55:32 I don't know what it is, but that's like, purpose. Like, I have a purpose. I'm, I'm trying to kill something. That-

Joe Rogan 55:39 A task.

Cameron Hanes 55:39 Is that happy?

Joe Rogan 55:40 Yeah, you're trying to-

Cameron Hanes 55:41 If-

Joe Rogan 55:41 ... find food.

Cameron Hanes 55:42 To me, that feels... 'Cause I don't know what happy is. I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around. Sometimes it's, it's, uh, alcohol-induced or drug-induced. It's like, is that supposed to be happy? What is ha- I don't know. I don't know what, what are we, what are we calling happy?

Adam Greentree 55:58 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 55:58 'Cause that's not like a little kid laughing at a birthday party, but are, are those both... Are they both happy?

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Joe Rogan 57:19 Well, there's l- uh, there's different kinds of happiness, right?

Cameron Hanes 57:22 I-

Joe Rogan 57:22 There's happiness-

Cameron Hanes 57:22 Yeah, I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:23 ... you get on a fun date, you know? There's happiness you get when you, you know, you do fun, stupid shit, like you go play, uh, like sandbox games. You pretend-

Adam Greentree 57:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:31 ... you're shooting z- zombies with VR. That's happy, it's fun, it's silly. You get, uh, you out- out of it, everyone has a smile. You had, you had a good time. "That was wild." That's happy too. There's a bunch of different kinds of happy, and some of it we've created, but there's content. Like, are you content, like, are, are you enjoying your existence?

Cameron Hanes 57:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:49 And I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people.

Cameron Hanes 57:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:51 'Cause there's a giant percentage of the people that are listening to this right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time. Most of the time, most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing-

Cameron Hanes 58:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:04 ... because they have to do it in order to do the things that they do enjoy. So, if you wanna go on vacation, you gotta make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii. If you wanna do this, you gotta do that. If you wanna do this, you gotta do that. You're like, "Ugh."

Adam Greentree 58:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:15 And so you're, you're just working in a cir- some stupid cubicle-

Adam Greentree 58:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:18 ... punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff you're gonna do with the money that you make doing this thing you hate doing.

Cameron Hanes 58:24 (laughs) It's pretty nuts.

Adam Greentree 58:25 Yeah, no, it is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:26 It's pretty nuts. It's-

Adam Greentree 58:27 I've never-

Cameron Hanes 58:28 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 58:28 I've never felt happy in that.

Cameron Hanes 58:30 That's what I'm saying. I don't know, I don't know what it is.

Adam Greentree 58:31 But having to do something to get to somewhere-

Joe Rogan 58:34 Right.

Adam Greentree 58:34 ... sometimes you have to be unhappy, you know?

Joe Rogan 58:35 That's true too. That is true too.

Adam Greentree 58:36 And you're the wrong person to be commenting on this-

Cameron Hanes 58:38 (laughs)

Adam Greentree 58:38 ... because you're extreme. (laughs) You're never gonna be happy 'cause you're gonna continue to chase bigger and better.

Cameron Hanes 58:43 Yeah, that's what I say. I-

Adam Greentree 58:44 Which is good. That's awesome.

Cameron Hanes 58:45 I don't know... I mean, and I, I mentioned this before, I'm happiest when I'm suffering.

Adam Greentree 58:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:53 That's ridiculous.

Cameron Hanes 58:54 No, but like, to-

Adam Greentree 58:56 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 58:56 Doesn't it, doesn't it feel like-

Joe Rogan 58:58 Adam and I, we just looked at each other.

Adam Greentree 59:00 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 59:00 No.

Joe Rogan 59:00 He's fucking crazy.

Cameron Hanes 59:01 Because when I'm suffering-

Adam Greentree 59:02 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 59:02 ... it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Right.

Adam Greentree 59:06 Yeah, you like that.

Cameron Hanes 59:07 Yeah.

Adam Greentree 59:07 And, and you know what's on the other side. That's what makes it better too.

Joe Rogan 59:10 Well, I think you've also... Yeah, you've sort of programmed yourself to be like that too, you know? This is like, similar to Goggins, right? Goggins always wants people to know that he wasn't always like this.

Adam Greentree 59:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:20 That he used to be fat and lazy, and he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds. He always talks about it.

Adam Greentree 59:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:25 You know? It's like, it's like, "This isn't... I wasn't born like this." Like, "I turned myself into this." And I think one of the reasons why you've been able to struggle so much is that you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle.

Adam Greentree 59:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:36 And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs. They want the couch. "Oh, I wanna relax. It's cold out, I don't wanna get in that fucking cold plunge." Are you crazy? What's wrong with you?

Adam Greentree 59:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:47 You know? Yeah.

Adam Greentree 59:48 I love struggle because you know what's on the other side.

Joe Rogan 59:51 ... yeah.

Cameron Hanes 59:52 ... the, the growth.

Joe Rogan 59:52 'Cause you've done it.

Cameron Hanes 59:53 So it's like, once you've done that, and I think that's where a lot of people struggle, if they quit or they don't get to the other side, then you don't know the reward on it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 What you just said is perfect. That's why they struggle, 'cause they don't struggle.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 It's like the thing you're avoiding (laughs) -

Cameron Hanes 1:00:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 ... is causing you to have the exact same thing. It's just a s- you're getting a slow dose of that poison.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 And you never get out of it. Whereas if you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over. But you're not doing that, so you're just getting the same amount of struggle in these weird little slow doses all day long.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 All... So you're never getting, like, "Oh my God, I'm in agony, I can't breathe."

Cameron Hanes 1:00:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Instead, you're getting, "Oh my God, the world is closing in on me and I don't know why I'm so freaked out, and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long for no fucking reason. I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong." That's what's going on.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Like, you're, you're getting your suffering in, like, little doses all day long, and it's driving you-

Cameron Hanes 1:00:51 Like misery.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 ... fucking crazy.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 And that's why you get on SSRIs, and that's why you do this, and that's why you do that, and you join a cult.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:58 Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:03 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 And one of the ways to feel better is voluntary struggling.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 You gotta volunteer to put yourself in stressful situations-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 ... difficult situations. Do it on purpose. If you do that, then the regular world is easier.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:17 Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, uh... I, I think, like, w- I'm always, of course, biased towards hunting in the mountains, but I also think that men, um, men specifically... You know, where I grew up and in the environment I grew up, hunters were respected. And if you killed a big buck, you're like... That meant something in the small town I was-

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 'Cause it's very difficult to do.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:39 Right. And it's like, for men, respect is such an important thing.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:44 You know? It's like w- we say, like, "Women need love, men need..." If you have to choose, men, love doesn't mean shit really, but respect does.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:53 And, uh, like, hunting was a way to earn respect from the community. And that's why for men, like, when I... As hunters, I think that's appealing for people who don't hunt, 'cause they see that image and they're like, "I'm missing that."

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:06 Because they see that there's, there's respect earned there.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Correct.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:09 And that's what men, whether they wanna admit it or not, that's a big driving force.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:15 Like, you, uh, even at work, at w- whatever job you have, you wanna be respected.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Here's a perfect example. That story you were telling me about shooting that bull in the Oregon back country-

Cameron Hanes 1:02:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 ... and you... It's a terrible place to kill a bull, and you called up that dude.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 That guy.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:32 Cal, Cal Halladay.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Which sounds like a fake name. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:02:34 We were talking about that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 It's-

Cameron Hanes 1:02:35 Like a gunslinger.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 (laughs) It's-

Cameron Hanes 1:02:37 I'm gonna try and find out if that's cool.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 Cal Halladay sounds like such a fake name.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:39 Bad-ass name.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 It's the perfect bad-ass name. You call this dude and ask him to help you. Dude drove through the... He told him b- okay, I'll s- he said, "I'll see you there at 8:00 AM."

Cameron Hanes 1:02:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 This guy drives through the night, he shows up. Like, how many hours did it take him to get there? He had a hike in.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:54 It, it was four guys. So he had to round up three other guys. So he, he brought four of... Like, him and three guys. And they live... God, how far away? I mean, a- at least p- couple hours, I think? Um, and so they had to get together, drive a couple hours, get up on this old, like, logging road, essentially, into the f- to the access point of the wilderness, to the trailhead, pack in miles, right? So this is like 9:00 or 10:00 at night. They said they'd be there at 8:00 in the morning. So that's what it took, like, to get there, and then miles back to this remote, middle of the wilderness hellhole area by 8:00 AM. So yeah, it was, it was hours and hours and hours just to get there. And you can't time that. You can't time that, but he did.

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 The way you talked about it-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 ... the way you talked about him-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 ... that's what every man wants.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 Like, that was a fucking man.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:45 Yes. Yes, as a man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:03:45 But he earns it, too. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:47 That's... And you're talking about, you know, respect's so important.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:50 But you do have to earn respect, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 Right, right.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:52 And-

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 And that, when... So i- in that moment, so, uh, there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son, James, my camera guy, Gideon, and then he brought four guys. So we had eight guys. In that moment, th- there's not eight other men I would rather have, or seven other men besides me that I'd rather have there.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 Because those, to do that, it's special.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 That's not ev- not everybody can do that shit. But those guys, that was their purp- th- they could probably never be, quote, "happier" than in that moment. Elk meat on our back, miles to get to the trailhead out, and, uh-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:32 Hundreds of pounds of meat.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Yeah, uh, 300 pounds of meat. So we waited at the, at the butcher when I took the, to get processed. 300 pounds of boned-out meat. That's not, not a bone on there, so-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:43 Not including your camp, not including everything that's on your back, your bow-

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Right, and the head. I took the head out.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had. But eight of us packed it out, and it was a great- the greatest day I can remember, probably this season. You know?

Cameron Hanes 1:04:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 I mean, it was... That m- that was, that was real.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 That's what I say. That, that's real.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 All this other shit, I don't know what this is. But that was fucking real. I killed a bull, we have to get it out to take care of this meat. Here's some bad-ass mountain men who can help me. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:05:16 Does it get any better?

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 No.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:17 (laughs) You know, I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now, and you've always been like that, eh?

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:22 You've never changed in that sense.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 No.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:23 Like, those things are important to you. Those things are meaningful to you.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:27 So it's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 No, it's, uh... Oh, th- thank you. But yeah, it's, it's... Yeah, I mean, that's all that fucking matters. Yeah, it's... Most people never experience that. That's what's wrong. What's wrong is most people never experience th- the, that insane, challenging experience where your, your character's tested, your will is tested, your commitment is tested.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:49 Just think. So, th- the video on this hunt came out last night, and it's called The Bowhunter, but there's a, a moment there...... after we had called, after we'd got the, my bull t- process. So, it was that, at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner, and James. And we're just sitting there. We had our tents set up. The, the bull, the meat's all hanging up, middle of the night, sitting there talking, eating, um, we're eating, uh, peak, uh, meals. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 Why were you eating peak meals-

Narrator 1:06:18 That's true.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:18 ... when you had elk meat there? (laughs)

Narrator 1:06:20 How could you eat that?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:20 (laughs) Well-

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Why didn't you eat the elk?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:20 ... we didn't, we didn't have a fire.

Narrator 1:06:22 Oh.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:22 But, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:06:23 ... the meat was processed. It wasn't time to eat or like to, to break down the, the bull. But that would've been great.

Narrator 1:06:28 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:28 Tenderloins over fire would've been amazing.

Narrator 1:06:30 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:30 We just didn't do it. But the point is, in that moment, there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life that I would rather be.

Narrator 1:06:40 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:40 Th- that is, that was the pinnacle-

Narrator 1:06:43 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:43 ... of life for me.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man.

Narrator 1:06:50 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 That's what it is.

Narrator 1:06:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 And it's how we stayed alive. And the way I describe it to people, there's a feeling, uh, most people have caught a fish. There's a feeling when someone catches a fish, like even a child. When I took my daughter bass fishing, she was like six, I think. She caught a bunch of bass. And the feeling that she got when she hooked it, like, "Oh."

Narrator 1:07:11 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Her eyes light up. It is built in us. It's inside of us.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 B- but catching a fish, b- bowhunting in, in the mountains, killing an animal, cooking it over a fire with your boys is that times 1,000.

Narrator 1:07:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 It's a, it's a crazy, built-in, "We did what we have to do, and we're looking forward to doing it again."

Cameron Hanes 1:07:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 So, that, that, th- that intense experience, the difficulty, all of it, you're sitting there relaxed, you're eating, and you have no doubt you can't wait to do that again. You're not like, "Man, I don't wanna do this again. This was nuts."

Narrator 1:07:43 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:43 You're like, "Yeah, I'm fucking tired, but that was awesome."

Narrator 1:07:46 Yep. Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 "That was awesome." You take the pack off like, "Whew."

Cameron Hanes 1:07:49 Mm-hmm, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 You're sitting there by the fire like, "Holy shit." You're drenched in sweat. Your legs are gone. Everybody's around smiling, like, "We fucking did it. We did it."

Cameron Hanes 1:07:57 I just don't know how, I mean, you hope the films can show that and sh- and, but-

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 Gives you a peak.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:05 ... to feel it-

Narrator 1:08:06 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:06 ... it's, I, I would, I wish everybody could feel it, ju- so they'd know.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:13 It'll never happen, but it's, it's so pow- it's life-changing.

Narrator 1:08:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 Do you remember Israel Adesanya's speech after he knocked out Pereira?

Narrator 1:08:20 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:20 What'd he say?

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 He, he goes, "I wish," and he goes, "People of the world, I w-" Play it. Let's play it, because it's fucking amazing.

Narrator 1:08:26 Yeah, it's unreal. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 It's fucking amazing.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 So, this is Alex Pereira. This is the guy that had beaten him three times.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:30 Three times, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Knocked him out in kickboxing. Knocked him out in MMA, and then finally he knocked him out.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:37 And this was like, everybody was, like, terrified of him taking this rematch. "Pereira can't be stopped. Pereira's a destroyer. He's the scariest guy ever." But he asked me to, to give him the microphone.

Narrator 1:08:51 And new-

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Look at that.

Narrator 1:08:55 ... champion of the world-

1:08:56 (laughs)

1:08:57 ... Israel "The Last Stylebender" Pereira!

1:09:03 (laughs) What a human.

1:09:06 Oh, my God!

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:09:07 Yeah,