CHAPTERS
- 0:02 – 2:32
Paulides’ law-enforcement background and the Yosemite rangers’ tip-off
Joe introduces David Paulides and traces how Paulides’ prior police work and writing led to an unexpected conversation with Yosemite rangers. The rangers claim there are many missing-person cases in parks, initial search activity fades quickly, and records are difficult to obtain.
- •Paulides’ background in law enforcement and as an author
- •Yosemite rangers approach him about recurring disappearances
- •Pattern described: publicity and searches stop after ~10–15 days
- •Early concern that the Park Service avoids discussing missing persons
- 2:32 – 5:06
Why disappearances get written off: terrain, scavengers, and what should remain
Rogan and Paulides discuss pragmatic explanations for missing bodies in wilderness settings—predation, decomposition, and the difficulty of searching huge areas. Paulides counters with the idea that certain durable items (shoes, buckles, leather, weapons) should still be found in many cases.
- •Reality of predators and rapid consumption of remains
- •Rarity of finding dead wild animals naturally
- •Items that often persist: shoes, buckles, leather/rubber, weapons
- •Paulides’ claim: too many cases lack expected physical remnants
- 5:06 – 10:08
The ‘amnesia relocation’ cases: from ski trips to truck-driver mysteries
They pivot to cases that seem to defy ordinary explanation, including a skier who vanishes in New York and later appears across the country with no memory. Paulides adds examples of truck drivers and other missing people found in searched areas, arguing that some victims appear to be “placed” later.
- •Canadian fireman vanishes on ski trip, later appears far away with no memory
- •Embarrassment and lack of follow-up details add to the mystery
- •Midwest truck-driver case: body found where teams already searched
- •Paulides’ recurring theme: subjects not present during searches, then reappear
- 10:08 – 14:52
Stacy Arras and the FOIA wall: the case that galvanized him
Paulides describes the Yosemite disappearance of 14-year-old Stacy Arras and his attempts to obtain investigative files. He claims the Park Service resisted FOIA requests aggressively, which he views as abnormal given the age of the case and lack of active investigation.
- •Arras disappears after briefly walking to take photos near camp
- •Massive search finds only a lens cap; she is never found
- •FOIA denials and a hostile call with a Park Service special agent
- •Claim: no meaningful case activity in decades, yet records withheld
- 14:52 – 18:35
Missing-person lists, costs, and ‘ongoing investigation’ exemptions
The conversation expands from one case to institutional behavior: Paulides says agencies claim they don’t maintain missing-person lists, then quote enormous fees to compile them. Rogan and Paulides react to the FOIA exemption rationale implying an “ongoing” enforcement proceeding decades later.
- •DOI/NPS allegedly claim no comprehensive list of missing persons exists
- •Quoted costs: tens of thousands for Yosemite; over a million for full system
- •Later Yosemite list release suggests pressure or changing stance
- •FOIA exemption 7A cited as if investigation is still ongoing decades later
- 18:35 – 21:01
Canine and tracker ‘failures’ as a core Missing 411 indicator
Paulides highlights a repeated pattern: trained dogs and expert trackers fail to follow scent/trails in cases he deems abnormal. Rogan presses on whether this could be incompetence, while Paulides argues the scale and repetition suggest something else.
- •Paulides contrasts his SWAT experience with current search outcomes
- •Claimed pattern: dogs won’t track, stop abruptly, or act uninterested
- •Professional trackers report no tracks from A to B
- •Paulides treats this as a primary filter for ‘high-strangeness’ cases
- 21:01 – 23:27
From missing people to UFO abduction themes: ‘entities’ and memory removal
Rogan asks directly about supernatural or extraterrestrial involvement. Paulides avoids firm conclusions but frames some disappearances as consistent with abduction narratives—often with amnesia and unusual search outcomes—and introduces his “point of separation” concept for hunters.
- •Paulides distinguishes ‘entity’ abduction from human criminal abduction
- •Amnesia and missing time as recurring features in certain cases
- •Point of separation: incidents happen when companions split up
- •Rogan cites a recent high-profile disappearance fitting Paulides’ criteria
- 23:27 – 33:52
Carl’s Wyoming encounter: the deformed bullet, stasis, and telepathic contact
Paulides recounts a dramatic hunting story involving time distortion, telepathic communication, and medical changes after an alleged abduction. The discussion includes viewing the unusually flattened bullet and speculating about what it struck and what the encounter implies about time/space manipulation.
- •Bullet allegedly drops and deforms as if hitting an immovable barrier
- •Entities communicate via ‘mindspeak’ and take Carl (and elk) aboard a craft
- •Carl later found injured; reported healed ailments and missing scars
- •Idea introduced: freezing time/space and ‘stasis’ around targets
- 33:52 – 40:31
Elk, German clusters, and why certain people/places recur in the reports
They explore why elk hunting appears frequently in these narratives and why remote backcountry conditions may facilitate unseen events. Paulides adds a controversial pattern: disproportionate cases involving German hunters and speculation about historical or cultural links.
- •Paulides claim: more disappearances tied to elk hunting than deer hunting
- •Rogan’s practical angle: elk hunting is remote, steep, and sparsely populated
- •Paulides suggests clusters by ethnicity (German hunters) in specific regions
- •Speculation about deeper historical associations and recurring selection
- 40:31 – 54:11
Skinwalker Ranch overlap: portals, silhouettes, and the ‘hitchhiker effect’
Paulides and Rogan connect missing-person lore to Skinwalker Ranch reports, including a ‘tube/portal’ account and a bipedal figure emerging. Paulides describes the hitchhiker effect—phenomena following investigators home—and ties it to Bigfoot and interdimensional hypotheses.
- •Kelleher/Skinwalker-style account of a portal-like tube expanding and opening
- •Bipedal, tall silhouette reportedly emerges and walks away
- •Hitchhiker effect: strange activity follows researchers to their homes
- •Rogan shares his own Skinwalker visit and an ‘orb in a house’ story
- 54:11 – 1:23:39
Bigfoot as investigation: hair samples, disputed DNA, and interdimensional framing
Paulides explains he was once hired by wealthy founders to investigate Bigfoot, leading to hair collection attempts and controversial DNA testing claims. Rogan challenges the lack of clear trail-cam evidence, while Paulides argues social stigma and odd DNA results suggest something nonstandard.
- •Origins of Paulides’ Bigfoot investigation and methods to collect hair follicles
- •Hair/fiber experts allegedly report ‘unclassified’ samples
- •Ketchum DNA narrative: maternal line traces back; paternal not found in GenBank
- •Debate over contamination, replication, and why major labs avoid the topic
- 1:23:39 – 1:52:39
Psychedelics, ‘little people,’ and consciousness as a lens on reality
The conversation broadens into mushrooms, DMT/ayahuasca, and recurring entity experiences across cultures. Rogan argues that reality at the quantum level is already strange and suggests psychedelics might alter perception in a way that reveals otherwise hidden layers.
- •Reports of ‘little people’ in indigenous stories and consistent mushroom visions
- •Rogan’s DMT experiences: entities/jesters and hyper-real vividness
- •Ayahuasca as orally active DMT; mystery of its discovery in the Amazon
- •Speculation: hallucination vs. perceiving a layer that’s ‘always there’
- 1:52:39 – 1:57:32
Government UFO disclosure and multiple ‘species’ claims in mainstream media
Rogan brings up recent media segments discussing entities and government encounters, including a clip from ‘Age of Disclosure.’ They discuss slow-walked declassification, institutional incentives to gatekeep, and public acclimation to extraordinary claims.
- •Rogan notes ‘entities’ talk appearing on mainstream outlets like Fox News
- •Clip claims: recovered craft, non-human bodies, multiple types/species
- •Reasons for secrecy: power, control, and adversary advantage
- •Idea of ‘acclimation’—gradually normalizing the concept for the public
- 1:57:32 – 2:14:05
A different kind of disappearance: intelligence ties and possible staged vanishing
Paulides introduces a case (Gilbert Gilman) that suggests governmental involvement rather than wilderness anomaly—FBI agents allegedly retrieving materials from a relative’s home. Rogan explores the possibility of an intentional disappearance to facilitate covert work, while acknowledging the human cost to families.
- •Gilman disappears after a brief park stop; odd details around behavior/signaling
- •Girlfriend and mother imply possible CIA/intelligence connections
- •Claim: FBI agents entered mother’s condo and removed a yellow pad/books
- •Discussion: staged disappearance for espionage vs. criminal explanations
- 2:14:05 – 2:20:25
Mount Rainier: UFO history, clustered missing hikers, and unresolved searches
They end on another hotspot: Mount Rainier and surrounding peaks, tying the region’s UFO lore back to Kenneth Arnold’s era and a military crash recovery story. Paulides lists missing hikers/photographers whose gear should have been found, reinforcing his anomaly criteria.
- •Arnold’s sighting context: search for a lost Marine transport near Rainier
- •Claim: crash site observed but bodies/aircraft not recovered due to danger
- •Rainier region: repeated UFO sightings alongside missing-person clusters
- •Cases where cameras/tripods/boots were never recovered despite searches
