JRE MMA Show #109 with Gordon Ryan

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum music plays) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Well, uh, welcome, man. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it.

   3. GRGordon Ryan0:17

      Of course. Thanks for having me.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Long time coming. How the fuck did you rise so far ahead of everyone else in the jujitsu world? Let me just tell everybody before things get started. Um, Gordon is undeniably the best pound-for-pound jujitsu player on earth. Not just the best, but pretty, pretty ... I- i- it's a pretty good statement to say that you're the best ever, and you're only 25.

   5. GRGordon Ryan0:45

      Yeah. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:46

      That's crazy.

   7. GRGordon Ryan0:47

      Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:48

      How the fuck does that happen?

   9. GRGordon Ryan0:49

      Uh, so, uh, I'm gonna go ahead and give, give credit to Jon. I mean, uh, I, I think that without him, I maybe would've been successful or would've been ... I, I would've been, you know, maybe the best in the world at some point in my career, but I don't think that without Jon, uh, I would be where I am right now, and I don't think that I would've gotten this good, uh, in, in this amount of time. You know, I've only ... I've been training 10 years. I've been competing com- uh, professionally for five years, and, uh, I think that, you know, a big part of the reason why I am where I am is 'cause, 'cause of Jon's coaching.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Yeah. And we're, we're talking about Jon Danaher, for people who don't know, who is a, a literal genius and a mastermind in jujitsu, and a true mad scientist. And watching him coach you guys is very fascinating because he's so serious and stoic, and, "Gordon Ryan, pass over the left leg. Gordon Ryan, post."

   11. GRGordon Ryan1:39

       Yeah. Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Like, the way he talks, like, it's really int- ... he says your full name too. It's, it's real-

   13. GRGordon Ryan1:43

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:43

       It's very interesting.

   15. GRGordon Ryan1:44

       Gordon Ryan, Garry Tonon, Craig Jones.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       Yeah.

   17. GRGordon Ryan1:46

       It's always, it's always the full, the full name.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       Yeah. Why? What is ... He's a, such an odd duck.

   19. GRGordon Ryan1:50

       He does it to address us, um, because a lot of times, like, if a guy like Nicky, for example, like, there's a lot of guys named Nicky.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:56

       Right.

   21. GRGordon Ryan1:56

       So he makes sure, he makes sure that you know he's talking to you when he says, "Nicky Ryan, Nicky Rod, Craig Jones, Gordon Ryan."

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:02

       Yeah.

   23. GRGordon Ryan2:02

       So you know that, you know that when you hear your name being called, your first and last name, you know that, okay, this person is addressing you in a room of, you know, five, 10,000 people.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       He's such an unusual human being. There is not a single person on the planet Earth like Jon Danaher, one of the most brilliant guys I've ever met, obsessed with jujitsu, mostly. Like, that's ... If you cr- ... You got a pie chart of his brain, it would be like, it's like 20% room for other shit, 80% of his brain is jujitsu.

   25. GRGordon Ryan2:30

       Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not even just jujitsu. It's just martial arts in general.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       Mm-hmm.

   27. GRGordon Ryan2:33

       Like, I mean, people who know Jon on a personal level and have trained with Jon know that Jon knows just a much, just as much about MMA as he does, or even more about MMA than he does about jujitsu. Um, he, he's been coaching MMA with George and with Chris Weidman for longer than he's been coaching jujitsu. I mean, he's only been coaching professional jujitsu athletes for five years. Uh, and I've watched him personally teach judo privates to judo Olympians, watch, uh, teach them, have them ... I watched him teach wrestling privates to wrestling world team members, wrestling Olympians. Um, you know, he knows al- just as much about the other martial arts as he does about jujitsu. It's crazy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       Yeah, and never walks around without a rash guard on, which is-

   29. GRGordon Ryan3:13

       That's also correct.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       (laughs) Which is the oddest thing ever.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. GRGordon Ryan15:01

      a, a series of cheat codes in front of you, and they're there all year round, every single day. You kind of feel like a shitbag if you don't show up to train.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      (laughs)

   3. GRGordon Ryan15:08

      So, it's like, you know, this guy, this guy's giving you everything. It's like, "Okay, if I don't show up, like, I'm kind of an asshole."

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      We went to dinner after the last, uh, event that they had here, when you, uh, fought Wagner Rocha. And, uh, Jon was outlining what happens when guys come to train, like guys who've never been there before.

   5. GRGordon Ryan15:25

      Yeah, it's uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:26

      He says, "I'll see you tomorrow." And then, "Tomorrow?" "Yes, tomorrow." Like, you guys train like this every day? Seven days a week?

   7. GRGordon Ryan15:32

      Seven days a week.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:33

      That's what's crazy. Like-

   9. GRGordon Ryan15:34

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       ... there's no days off?

   11. GRGordon Ryan15:35

       No days off.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Um, is there an argument against that?

   13. GRGordon Ryan15:41

       Um, I don't really think so. I mean, if we're, if we're tired, we just train lighter. Um, you know, there's no... E- even if I feel like I'm just completely beat up and I just, I don't wanna get up and go to training, even if I just go there and I train really light and I'm, I'm there mentally and you're thinking about the sport, I mean, you're getting better. Um, whereas if you just spend the day on the beach or something, then you're not thinking about the sport and, uh, it- it hinders progression. So, I- I think that, you know, some people argue you need a rest day, you need this, you need that. I mean, if I have a rest day, I can rest and I can not train hard and I, I just go lighter and maybe I work on submissions. Maybe, um, I'm playing defensive the whole time and I get submitted 10 times during the session. Who cares? You know, you're training lighter, but you're, you're actively resting and you're still thinking about the sport, so you're there mentally.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       That's very controversial though, because most trainers in most sports will tell you that you need rest days, that you need days where you do nothing, and then even days where you don't even think about your sport, because that's actually gonna refresh your enthusiasm.

   15. GRGordon Ryan16:39

       Yeah. Jon's the exact opposite. Like, for us, he says, like, in order to stay interested in the sport, you need to be constantly working towards goals and you constantly need to be innovating so that you're working on new things. I mean, people get bored with jiu-jitsu when they're working on the same thing for six months at a time, a year at a time. They're not getting any better, they hit a plateau, and then they feel like, uh, "You know, I've been doing the same shit for the last two years. I'm bored of it, I don't really wanna do this anymore." Whereas with us, every day it's something new, you know? Every week it's something new. Every six months you turn into a completely different grappler. Um, so it's-

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       Mm-hmm.

   17. GRGordon Ryan17:11

       ... easy to stay interested in a sport that you come in and you know that you're gonna show up to a session, and if you don't show up to that session, that Jon's gonna teach something that you probably have never seen before, something that's new. And, you know, you're gonna come in the next day and everyone's gonna be trying to hit it on you and you'll be like, "What the fuck is this?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       (laughs)

   19. GRGordon Ryan17:28

       "When did you teach this?" And he'll be like, "Oh, yesterday when you weren't here." And it's like, "Oh, okay. That makes sense."

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       Wow. So, it really does demand a synergy between an obsessed trainer and obsessed students.

   21. GRGordon Ryan17:41

       Yeah. Like, Jon goes home, like, we're, like, bullshitting right now, talking. Or like, you go home and watch TV and relax. Jon goes home and he studies tape. Like, Jon just, like... What he does for fun is he studies tape on, on various martial arts. Like, you, you reference any fight or any wrestling match or any boxing match or jiu-jitsu match, like, Jon will give you, like, a full background story on the whole... Like, he just, he knows everything, and not even just about martial arts. He just knows everything about everything. He's like the closest thing to Google that you can get, in my opinion. Um, like you just ask him a question about any dif- any given subject and he knows something about it. Um, so, you know, it-... when he goes home every night and he studies tape, you, you're, you know for a fact that the next day he's coming in and he's showing you something that he watched from, like, the u- Like, the other day he showed us something that, uh, uh, uh, an Asian kid hit from the U23 World Championships in, like, 2018 that he was, like, that, uh, that he was, uh, he was, uh, taking people down with in, uh, in the wrestling championships. And it's just, like, this guy, like, went home and, like, started watching the U23 Worlds from, like, 2018. Like, who does that?

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       (laughs) He and Lex Friedman had a conversation while we were at dinner where Lex brought up some obscure wrestlers from Dagestan and Jon was like, "Oh, yes. Yes." And he starts-

   23. GRGordon Ryan18:53

       Oh, yeah. He knows all about them.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       ... going into detail-

   25. GRGordon Ryan18:55

       Yep.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       ... about these people.

   27. GRGordon Ryan18:55

       It's crazy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       And also, he studies why they're successful. Like, that's, that's a fascinating thing too. You know?

   29. GRGordon Ryan19:03

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:03

       He, he doesn't just study the fact that this is a group of people doing things. It's like, "Why are there outliers?" And so he analyzes what, what causes an outlier.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

   2. GRGordon Ryan30:00

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      I didn't even know they did that.

   4. GRGordon Ryan30:01

      Yeah, yeah. They del- they delete comments all the time. Like, people attack me, I retaliate and then they start to, uh... And then we go back and forth and then, like, the whole comments section gets erased. So you spend, like, four hours on a comment thread and then the original comment gets erased and then before you know it, like, you just spent four hours on Instagram and it was all useless.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:19

      What the fuck is wrong with them?It just, uh, it just drives me nuts. I just, I don't understand why they do it.

   6. GRGordon Ryan30:26

      And it's just getting worse. Like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:28

      Yeah.

   8. GRGordon Ryan30:28

      ... it's not, it's not getting any better. So now, I just kinda go on, like, once every, on- once every day or so, once every other day. I just promote, like, a fight coming up or an instructional that's coming out and then I just, I don't even bother arguing with people anymore.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      What about videos? Can you make videos, like YouTube videos or, or talk and shit in a Instagram video? Will they delete that?

   10. GRGordon Ryan30:46

       Uh, it depends on, it depe- I mean, if people report it, they pretty much just, 'cause I have so many strikes against me, they pretty much just, if someone reports it, they just instantly delete it and they don't even give me a chance to fight it anymore. They're just like, "Yeah, fuck you. You had so many violations." Uh, they, uh, they just erase it. But, um, uh, I def- I can, I can do some stuff, uh, but it's, it's getting ... the window of what I can work with is getting smaller and smaller by the day.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       (laughs)

   12. GRGordon Ryan31:11

       So, it's just like, uh ... (sighs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       It's just, it is one of the weirdest problems to have, to be the best in the world at something and then to have someone like Instagram, like, deleting-

   14. GRGordon Ryan31:23

       Yeah. They're just-

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       ... comments and-

   16. GRGordon Ryan31:24

       And I'm like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       ... posts.

   18. GRGordon Ryan31:25

       And I, I'm, like, perma-banned on Facebook. Like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       Oh, really?

   20. GRGordon Ryan31:27

       ... I get, like, 30 ban days. I'm okay for, like, two days and then they just ban me for 30 days. And then, like, they'll go back and they'll find shit from, like, 2015. They're like, "This goes against community standards." Banned for 30 days, banned for 30 days, banned for ... I've been, like, the last year I probably had, like, four active days on Facebook and then I'm just banned for the next 30 days-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       (laughs)

   22. GRGordon Ryan31:43

       ... every single time. It's just like, I can't even, I can't even use it anymore. I, uh ...

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       (laughs) But how do you have time to do that, though, with all the training?

   24. GRGordon Ryan31:52

       So that's what I do for fun. Like most people watch TV, I just go on Instagram and I attack people.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:56

       (laughs)

   26. GRGordon Ryan31:56

       Like, I get home, I eat my food, I'm like eating my food and I go on and I'm typing and I'm like, I, like, tell, I tell Nat, I'm like, "Man, I just, I just crushed this guy on Instagram," and like, I'm reading the thread and she's like, "Yeah, it's gonna get deleted." And then 30 minutes later, like, "Oh, this is, goes against hate speech, hate, uh, hate speech." So, it's just like, I would, I always used to do it for fun but now it's not even fun 'cause I just waste my time doing it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       Now, obviously, the next course of progression for a guy like you would be MMA.

   28. GRGordon Ryan32:22

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       Now, I know that you had talked about doing MMA in the past, but now it seems like it's actually gonna happen.

   30. GRGordon Ryan32:28

       Yeah, um, so Jon doesn't want me to compete in MMA because he feels like jiu-jitsu is just about to break into that next level of professional sports. Uh, so for me, at least right now, I feel like I need at least someone from my team to be able to do the things that I'm doing before I can kinda move away from jiu-jitsu into MMA. Because right now, we have Gary in MMA, he's carrying our flag, our team's flag in MMA, and we have me at the top of the heap in jiu-jitsu. So like, if Craig or Nicky Rod or my brother, um, can start doing the things that I'm doing and they win an ADCC Absolute maybe or, you know, they go out and they start beating and submitting all the high level guys, then I feel like maybe I can leave, uh, jiu-jitsu. 'Cause if I start fighting MMA, I'm gonna focus on MMA, um, so I feel like if one of my teammates can kinda take my place, then I can start moving into MMA and then, and go from there.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (laughs) …

   1. GRGordon Ryan45:00

      very disciplined with jiu-jitsu and I'm relatively disciplined with weightlifting. But with anything else, I'm just like ... That's like the two things I'm good at in life, is like being able to lift weights and being able to do jiu-jitsu, and everything else I'm just like a complete child.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:12

      (laughs)

   3. GRGordon Ryan45:12

      Like I just like, I just refuse to do anything else besides what I have to do for my career.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      But I think it would help you. I think ice baths and sauna would help you. I know sauna would help you. I mean, Dan Gable was, uh, in here recently and just ranting and raving about what a, a gigantic impact sauna has had and how, you know, he recognized it from all these, uh, athletes overseas competing in the Olympics, how they utilize the sauna and had a big impact on them.

   5. GRGordon Ryan45:38

      Yeah. I'm definitely not opposed to saunas. I actually like sitting in saunas, uh, and, and hot tubs. But, uh, I just, it's something that I don't have a sauna and I've just never, I've never done them. But if I, if I one day have a sauna, if I buy a house, uh, again, I'll definitely, I'll definitely think about putting a sauna in there. 'Cause they're not that expensive-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:54

      No.

   7. GRGordon Ryan45:55

      ... and they, and they're-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:55

      No. You get those barrel saunas-

   9. GRGordon Ryan45:57

      ... They're-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       They're reasonably inexpensive in terms of like the value that you get from them.

   11. GRGordon Ryan46:01

       Yeah. And it, if it, if it'll help, then, you know, I'm definitely ... I have to do some more resear- research, but if it'll help, I'll, I'll use it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       I'll send you the research.

   13. GRGordon Ryan46:08

       Okay.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       'Cause I'm a, a sauna freak.

   15. GRGordon Ryan46:10

       Okay.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       I, I live by that fucking thing.

   17. GRGordon Ryan46:12

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       I'm an old man, but-

   19. GRGordon Ryan46:12

       I ali- I always see the Photoshop Steve Photoshopping you-

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:15

       Yeah. (laughs)

   21. GRGordon Ryan46:15

       ... in sauna, so ...

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       Yeah, he's got a lotta good stuff to work with. But, uh, I do it every day, and at least five days a week, if not seven.

   23. GRGordon Ryan46:24

       Yeah. I know, I know, I know many people who use them who swear by them as well. I just, I, I've never, I've never done them consistently.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:30

       (smacks lips) It, it's got a host of benefits. But, uh, it's really good for your endurance, too, believe it or not. It actually has a mild effect. It's akin to like an EPO.

   25. GRGordon Ryan46:39

       Oh, okay.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:39

       You know? It, uh, increases your red blood cell count. But the big thing is the heat shock proteins and the decrease in inflammatory markers. Like they can monitor all this stuff and, and prove it with blood work.

   27. GRGordon Ryan46:51

       Okay. So I'll look more into saunas, then.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Yeah. It's, uh, it's legit. Now, in terms of, uh, striking, how much striking have you done?

   29. GRGordon Ryan46:58

       Uh, a minimal amount. I'm a white belt equivalent. Um, I, I've done it, uh, but the problem is when I was getting, uh, ready to initially fight MMA, it was, uh, it was like 2018 I started, I started working with Jon. And, uh, then in 2000- early 2- no, sorry, 2019. In early 2019 I tore my LCL and I came right back from that surgery and I had to jump right into an ADCC camp. So my thing was I had to get my knee better and then I have to prepare for 2019 ADCC. Uh, and then I did 2019 ADCC and then, uh, you know, after that I sat down with Jon and Jon's like, "You know, this was a huge ADCC. I think grappling is gonna start to go into a direction where it's gonna start to be like a real professional sport. Um, I think you should stick with grappling at least for a few more years before you do ... b- before you decide to move to MMA." Like what Jon doesn't want is for, uh, for me to leave grappling just as it explodes into the next level.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:57

       Right.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:04:46

   (laughs) …

   1. GRGordon Ryan1:00:00

      cut the heads off horses in battle. And if you lined up three male human beings back-to-back, it would chop them in half at the torso with one swipe." And I was like, "Wow, that's fucking awesome."

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      (laughs)

   3. GRGordon Ryan1:00:11

      So, I just have, like, a collection of knives, like, sitting in my room.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      (laughs)

   5. GRGordon Ryan1:00:14

      I have... I have to get stands for them still. But whenever we, like, win something big, he gives, he gives out knives. He loves... He's a, he's a knife freak.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

      That's interesting. So, he has knife makers that he hires-

   7. GRGordon Ryan1:00:23

      Yeah, he-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

      ... commissions?

   9. GRGordon Ryan1:00:24

      He, like, he, like, he knows all of the best world's, like, all of the world's best knife makers. Like, he's, like, friends with them. He, like, texts them. He's like, "Hey, can you do this?" He, like, designs his own knives. Like, he's, he's crazy obsessed with knives.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       Well, he likes pig hunting knives, those big-ass pig stickers.

   11. GRGordon Ryan1:00:37

       Yeah, 'cause he... You know he used to hunt pigs in, in New Zealand, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Oh, is that-

   13. GRGordon Ryan1:00:40

       Like, that was, that was, like, his childhood, like, pastime. Like, he used to go out and used to hunt pigs with, with dogs.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       With dogs.

   15. GRGordon Ryan1:00:46

       With dogs.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       Yeah, that's how they do it in Hawaii too.

   17. GRGordon Ryan1:00:47

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

       ... yeah, that's a, that's a down-home way to do it.

   19. GRGordon Ryan1:00:51

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

       Yeah.

   21. GRGordon Ryan1:00:51

       So-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

       They do it that way here, too. I got invited to do one of those hunts.

   23. GRGordon Ryan1:00:55

       I asked them one time and I'm like, (laughs) I'm like, uh, I'm like, "John, like, what was your favorite, like, you know, TV show growing up?" He goes, "We didn't have TV. We hunted hogs." (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       (laughs)

   25. GRGordon Ryan1:01:04

       I'm like, "Okay," and he just starts telling me about that. But, uh, yeah, my friend... I, I have a buddy in Dallas. We went out, we had, like, night vision goggles and we... and, and, uh, and we were... He's like, he's like, "You wanna go hunt some hogs tonight?" I'm like, "Yeah, sure." And then we went out, like, nighttime and we were looking for pigs.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       Yeah. Hennessy just invited me to do that. And Tim Kennedy's always invited me to go hunt them on planes or on-

   27. GRGordon Ryan1:01:24

       Oh, on-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       ... helicopters.

   29. GRGordon Ryan1:01:25

       ... helicopters. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:45:14