JRE MMA Show #115 with Valentina Schevchenko

Joe is joined by Valentina Shevchenko, the current UFC Women's Flyweight Champion.

Valentina ShevchenkoguestJoe Roganhost

Jun 27, 20242h 29mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,130 words

0:00 – 3:17
Valentina’s languages and learning Thai through immersion
1. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Okay, here we go. Valentina, pleasure to have you in here. Very excited.
3. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes. Finally I'm here, right? (laughs)
4. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) Finally, yeah. I mean, we've been talking about it for a while and, uh, I've been a fan of yours for quite a long time. You're a very unusual person, very unusual.
5. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
6. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, it's, it's unusual to be a martial arts champion, but you are ... You're an unusual martial arts champion. I mean, you're very ... You're very diverse. You have so many skills and talents. It's very strange. Like, how does one ... First of all, how many languages do you speak?
7. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, three what I speak, and I'm learning fourths. I learning Thai now.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  You're learning Thai?
9. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  'Cause you were speaking Thai after one of your fights.
11. VSValentina Shevchenko
  The last one, yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. So it sounds like you know it. Like you say you're learning it, but you, you got a lot to say.
13. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, yeah, it's kind of like I can say a lot, but, uh, when I mean I'm learning, I want to, um ... So once I will speak it, like, fluently-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
15. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... and I will understand, like, native people so good, then I consider it, yes, I speak language. Before that, it's kind of still learning and I think, um, I started to learning, like, couple years ago, but, um, I think it's very important to have practice with native people.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
17. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Go to Thailand and, like, forget about speaking English, just speak Thai, and this is how, like, um, you just adopt everything. So this is what I ... I want to put this language, Thai language, on the next level. Then I will say, okay, four. Now four. (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  So, like, you immerse yourself?
19. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, maybe. Yeah. Kind of. Uh, because, for me, um, I try to do everything, like, as best way I can. Not the perfection way, right, but the best what I can.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Now, your first language is Russian?
21. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  And when did you learn other ... When did you start learning other languages?
23. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, so, English, it was ... I started to learn it in the school, just some basics, because it's like a school program. We learn alphabet, some just very easy words, and nothing enough for, like, speaking, uh, level. But when I started to compete and go and travel for the competition, that was, like, my push for, uh, bringing, uh, my l- um, like, uh, language level to the next level. And, uh, when we moved to, um, South America, then I started to learn, uh, Spanish. But learning Spanish, it was, uh, kind of like the hard way. I came there with no one word in Spanish. No one word, and it's straight, like, to there. "If you want to learn Spanish, you have to speak Spanish right now." And, uh, I say from the moment what I started to speak to the moment when I, uh, was kind of, like, given my first interview, it was four months. After four months, I was giving my first interview in Spanish. It was not the perfect Spanish, but I still could communicate. (laughs)
3:17 – 7:45
From Kyrgyzstan to South America: travel as a life philosophy
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So talk us through this journey. So why did you go to South America?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, I, uh, was born in Kyrgyzstan. My, um, sister, she is martial artist. I was, uh, starting my training when I was very young age, five years old, and definitely, uh, um, like, through all the years what I practice in martial arts, I compete a lot. Every competition, a lot of martial arts, and, um, so, um, I started to compete in Kyrgyzstan. Then there was not any competition, like, any, um, opponents, and it was, like, hard to compete already. Then, uh, we start to travel. My coach, Pavel, with who I train, like, since the beginning, uh, he decide, like, to, um, "Okay, let's explore something new." We move to Russia for a couple years, and then it was like also no p- uh, uh, opponents to fight with, and, uh, we decided to move next and to see how to, like, explore. And definitely, um, I think for martial arts, for MMA, for, like, anything in S- South America, it's, um, a good place to. And mostly it's, um, interesting to explore, interesting culture from Russia, Kyrgyzstan, it's very far. It's kind of l- like s- totally different culture, and we decide to explore over there. We come to, um, South America and people there just wanted to learn a lot Muay Thai. We started to train, give, uh, like, classes, and they was asking for the seminars, and we stay a little bit more, a little bit more, and then we decide, "Okay, why we not stay here and live here?"
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And we stay there and lived for eight years.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  So you initially went there just to find people to compete with?
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No. Initially it was, um ... Mm, it's very hard to say in one word what it was initially, because I'm not traveling for looking for a gym. I'm not traveling looking for, um, something, like, one. I'm traveling for, to explore new places, to explore new culture, to, uh, have different, like, uh, adventures, if I can say, and this is what's initial reason for traveling, to, uh, see what is there. (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  So and once you are there, you kind of like, okay, uh, South America, it's very interesting, um, continent. It's like, uh, it's not just one con- uh, country, like Peru, where we both live in. It's Argentina. It's Brazil. It's Colombia. It's Ecuador, Chile. It's so many different countries, and you want to, uh, be there. You want to explore what is there. You want to see how people live, what they's thinking, what they believe, and it's kind of like it's, uh, pulling you into it. It's, uh, very hard to say, "Okay, uh, now it's time to go back," because every time when I am traveling, I want to explore more. I want to see deeper. It's... For me, it's not enough to see with a tourist eyes. "Okay, I take picture here, there. I've been there. Mark." No, it's not enough for me. I want to understand what actually people, uh, how they live.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  ... has this always been something that's fascinating to you? Like, what draws you to want to know so much about these different cultures?
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, yes. Uh, I, I remember it was since the beginning. I just like, uh, it was, uh, it is huge part of my life. It's everything about me, and I think it's kind of like the best school, the best education what one can get. Because, um, definitely when you are in school you can, uh, learn something but this is like a real school.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And the travel, it put you in different life situation and you have to know how to react. You have to learn how to communicate with, uh, like other people because a intra- uh, for example, I can say, uh, in your city, in your street, in your country, you can be the superstar. You travel somewhere else and like, uh, for example, if you are local star and you go to the other country and you're kind of like there, okay, it's okay but what? And you have to know how to deal, how to communicate with other people and it's put you on the ground every time. And it's kind of like good even for the, uh, especially for the fighters.
7:45 – 10:57
Why the coach matters most: Pavel’s lifelong partnership
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So if you talk me through the progression of your career when you moved to Peru first, that's where you moved? Were you already a world Muay Thai champion?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Oh, yes. It was, um, five or seven, five or seven Muay Thai world championships.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  And did you worry that you wouldn't get good training partners there or w- they wouldn't be at the same elite level that you're at?
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, (sighs) that part ... First, I'm never worried about to find, uh, right training partner because I know this is the world. It's like so many, uh, good training partners. So many different people, so many, like, you can find anyone. Uh, no matter, like, if it's, like, a small place, big place, you can find, uh, good level for your trainings. The most important, um, it's I think one of the most important ones, it's, uh, to have right coach.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Because no matter how good, uh, um, fighter can be, if it's going to be not right approach... If it's going to be right approach, he can rise or she can rise. If it's going to be super much talent, but not right approach, he will fall.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And this is, uh, like the, the, the worst things I, I think could happen. That's why the most important what I was worry about, do you have right coach with me? That's why I'm travel everywhere Pavel goes. (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  So Pavel has been with you from the very beginning?
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes. Yes, from the very beginning.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  That's a huge advantage.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  He is my coach from the first, um, uh, day in his gym.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, wow.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  S- from the, like, I started five years old, when I had five years old.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow, so you've been with s- him since you were-
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  ... five years old?
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I am fighting and training 28 years.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yeah, and since there, it's li- it's mos- m- more like a coach. We are a team. Me, my sister, Pavel, uh, we team who, like, sharing the, um, um, like so much things in common. We love the same things, uh, traveling, exploring, um, like, uh, see different people. And, uh, yeah, it's not just a sport, it's like a, a family.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's very fortunate that he was willing to travel with you. If he didn't want to move to South America, would you have stayed in, in Russia?
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, it's, you know, it's, um, it's hard to tell... Uh, it's not hard to tell because, um, I think at the certain point when, uh, everything come in one, like, in something, one complete, it's not a question if they don't want, if, like, something happen differently, because everything happen as it has to happen.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And you never think what it would be if it would be different way. It just happen what, h- how it happened. And I know that this passion for travel, it's not just my passion. Um, Pavel shares the same passion for travel. My sister shares, uh, the same. That's why we are, like, a, a good and strong team. (laughs)
10:57 – 17:43
Thailand camps, Muay Thai ‘spirit,’ and learning beyond the gym
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's a perfect combination. So when you moved to Peru, you had no problem finding world-class s- strikers to train with and people to work out with?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, you know, it's kind of like, uh, when we moved there, uh, firstly, we started to train and to teach Muay Thai and give different seminars because, um, before it was mostly kickboxing. So Muay Thai, it's more deeper martial arts. It's l- more complete martial arts because, uh, kickboxing and just hands and, uh, kicks. Uh, Muay Thai, it's everything. It's k- um, elbow, knee, and clinching so you can wrestle till the ground. So it's kind of like more complete and it has different, um, fight character rather than kickboxing. And this is what we starting to do. But, um, every time we was traveling, uh, even we were, like, living in Peru, we spend it for, uh, three, four months in Thailand every time.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  So... Yes. And this is amazing because, for example, we travel for the world championship there and we just stay there for another, like, two, three months.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And this is the best part. (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  So, um, where were you training out of in Thailand? Were you at Tiger Muay Thai?
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, last six, seven years, it's Tiger Muay Thai. It's gym what I represent, what I fight for. Uh, before it was Koh Samui WMC Lamai gym. Uh, so, uh, for me, it's every time I was like if it's Thailand, it's islands.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm. And what is the benefit of training in Thailand as opposed to training other places?
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, I would say the spirit, because, um, what is Muay Thai? It's Thailand. It's spirit of Thailand. And, um, definitely to train in Thailand, you have enjoy everything. But I'm not, um, fanatic of, like, people, uh, who just come in there and train in, like, three session a day and they don't explore, um, Thailand, what is that? They explore the culture, explore the food, explore what's around. They just spend, like, um, uh, all their time in the gym without see what's happening outside. To understand the full picture, you have experienced everything. That's why, um, I say every time, if you want to put, uh, yourself on the next level, you have to train, but also, like, speak with the people and see what's happening around. So, it's kind- kind of like open your eyes more widey.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  And you think that actually improves your skill set? It just improves your perspective, which improves your skill set?
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I think everything tie to each other. So, there is no, for example ... Uh, I- I- I- I would put this example. I started to learn, um, um ... So, I speak English. I speak Spanish. Right? And when I speak, um, when I started to learn new language, it was helping me to, uh, improve my first language. So, it's kind of like, yes, it's totally different language, but it's helping me to, uh, uh, to put on the better level something what I have already.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  That's- that's why it's very hard to say if you do something, it doesn't help to, um, get to put on the next level what already you have. So, it's interchange. It's something that, uh, influence on each other. That's why, for me, it's every time, uh, yes, to have better skills in sport, in ... No matter what sport. Mixed martial arts, just art- martial arts or, like, whatever. Definitely you have to spend enough time on your technique (laughs) . You have to spend enough time on your skills, but sometimes it's just not enough. Sometimes you have to go out and see something else, uh, I mean like, um, the character of the fight of different fighter to get this experience, to try it on yourself. Not only just, like, "Okay, this is my technique and I will perform it the best way that I can." Yes, but sometimes you have to add yourself, your spirit in tho- in this technique to modify it, uh, especially how it will- will work for you. And this is only way how you know this technique will work. It's, uh, if you are just, like, doing it because someone told you that it's right, it's one thing, but e- when you started to actually feel the technique, then it's became your, like, so natural things that it's kind of, like, uh, like, dangerous for everyone.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Did ... Is this something that you learned to ... That things all help other things? Like, whatever you do, the more you experience, the broader your understanding of things, the better it helps all of the things you do? Or is it something you were taught?
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, it's combination. It's combination. What I, um, what my fr- mother was told me, what my coach, what Pavel told me, and definitely my own experience, because I see it works. First, I hear from them it works. It's one thing. When I- when actually I see it works, it's kind of like, uh, put stronger impact on you.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And definitely, uh, for the experience what I have, uh, uh, through the, like, all years what I practice in martial arts, I see this is the only one, uh, like, way how put your level on the n- uh, your game on the next level.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  And now it's just intuitive? Now this is just how you approach things naturally?
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes and no. It's combination. Sometimes you have to, um, to break something, like, for example, uh, you trying to learn something new and you go for it. And you go for it and you try. It's like ... And you have, like, barrier. You cannot, like, break this barrier. And you try and you try and you try. Uh, sometimes you have to put there a little bit more pressure to break the barrier. And it doesn't, um, consist with anything like feeling or something like, um, uh, intuition, something like that. But, uh, once you break it, then it's, like, different level and then when you have to start to learn how to feel it from inside to perform it the better way.
17:43 – 22:57
Building a ‘universal fighter’: Taekwondo roots to Muay Thai and MMA
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So, your ... What was your initial martial art you started with when you were five years old?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, I started with taekwondo, taekwondo ITF. Uh, yeah. This is was my first sport.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  And then how did you branch out from there? Like, what were the years? What ... Wh- when did you start training in different arts?
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, so it's ... Uh, every time, the ... What- what, uh, was idea of Pavel, uh, Pavel every time was thinking about universal fighter, about, like, fighter who, uh, doesn't have any, like, problem. Uh, for example, if you are speaking about striker, striker every time would feel something weird and, like, uncomfortable when, uh, someone other start to wrestle him. Right?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And wrestler, he ... Uh, definitely he will feel not the best, uh, the- the strength when he's fighting. So, the idea every time was to-... be, like, universal, to create from, uh, his student universal fighters. That's why he put us in different competition as Kyrgyzstan, it's, uh, it's little country and there is so many martial arts. So many, uh, like schools and Pavel have friends like presidents of, uh, federation of karate, of presidentation of, uh, like different style of Taekwondo, uh, um, Wushu Sanda, so, like, different competition we, uh, would have. And we competed in different ones, like, uh, in my childhood it was like thousand different competition.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And i- this is what, like, um, um, help me to feel the different style of fighting, different technique, and, um, I never, uh, had, like, um, problem to fight in different style. It was, uh, problem- it wa- it, it was kind of like how good you can transfor- transform yourself for the, uh, like, switch the chip for the different martial artists. That's why there, um, I cannot say there was like, "Okay, this day I switch standup for the crowd."
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Or, like, I start to train, like, Muay Thai since this day, because, um, it's just never happen. It was everything l- everything, like, uh, so naturally development, like, um, going from one style to the another style. And more, uh, if we're speaking about Taekwondo, there is, like, a Taekwondo professional style, pro Taekwondo. It's, uh, uh, the same, like, fighting, similar to Muay Thai but, uh, uh, they wrestle with more, like, um, throws. I mean, like, like Judo throws or freestyle wrestling throws, so it's m- more, like, wide variety of throws. So it's kind of, like, also help for, um, um, my competition in Muay Thai. Um, yeah, but, um, when I started to compete more frequently in Muay Thai, it's, um, I would say since 2003.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  And then you became just w- much more Muay Thai focused?
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, much more it started about 2005, '6, uh, because before, it was like, we already started to fight Muay Thai, MMA, and on that time, it was less competition for female fighters in mixed martial arts.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  It was very hard to find, like, frequent fights. If you want to keep, like, busy and fight every time, you would fight, like, more like in standup, because there is more, uh, opportunities for you. And this is what it's, uh, how it started that I start to focus more in Muay Thai, because it was more opportunities in Muay Thai. But, uh, in 2010, when, uh, female MMA started to, like, just like boom, explode, yeah, we definitely was, uh, like thinking to come back, do the same, and we started to compete in Muay Thai and MMA.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  So it's interesting that your- the beginning of your journey in martial arts coincides with the beginning of the UFC. So if we go back 28 years, th- we're talking about, like, 1993, right? Like that is the beginning of the UFC.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs) Oh my god. (laughs) It's a good example, no?
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's a perfect example, right?
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Because one of the things that we've always said, uh, as th- this sport has grown is that it's really interesting to watch these young kids growing up with martial arts, with mixed martial arts, as opposed to, you know, they would be 30 years old with a lifetime of wrestling and then learn how to strike and then enter the UFC. We're seeing people, like yourself, that when you started your martial arts journey was the beginning of the UFC, which is pretty crazy.
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, it is, and I think it's, um, in some-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  And now you're a UFC champion.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I know.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  It's crazy.
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I- it's something that, uh, meant so much for me now, yeah. (laughs)
22:57 – 34:10
Dominant champion mindset: beauty, balance, and being lethal everywhere
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, you're not just a UFC champion, you're one of the best champions. It's very, it's very unique to watch you fight, because you're, you're one of those people, like Anderson Silva in his prime, where you've kind of cleaned out your division. You know? Um, and there's no disrespect to your opponents, but some of your oppo- opponents, when I'm watching you fight them, I'm not thinking, are they going to beat you? I'm thinking, what are you going to do to them? That's- it's a strange position to be in, where you're almost, like, competing, you're competing against these women, but your level is so much higher than everyone else in this 125-pound division, that there's just not much there for you, in terms of, like, Valentina has to fight this woman. There, there's no fight like that for you.
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I think that, um, definitely, this is one of my goals. In my, uh, performance, in my training, and, um, definitely this is, like, what I, um, the idea of my fight style, to be able to, um, win the fight, make the fight, uh, very beautiful from the technical side, very intensive, very, like, uh, just high level martial arts. But in the same time without do it like dirty fight, like street fight, just a, like, different level, when you can finish your opponent without, uh, them touch you.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  So this is kind of like, like ideally idea (laughs) ideal.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, you can see how you sometimes impose the opponent's style on them.It's almost like you're challenging yourself, like the Jessica Andrade fight. Like, in the, coming into that fight, most people thought the only way she would have any sort of advantage at all would possibly be grappling. And so what did you do? You out-grappled her.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, did you do that on purpose?
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No. No.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  No?
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No. Uh, I don't know. Uh, this is what I think. It, it's no. (laughs) Because, uh, maybe, huh, people just, like, was s- speaking about that so much, so frequently before the fight. Maybe it just stay in my, like, mind and was there. But, you know, I never felt that this is a position dangerous for me. Since the beginning, since the like ... I, I know exactly, uh, h- uh, what is my strength. I know exactly what is my power. Um, that's why it's never was a doubt would I be good there? No. Um, I know what I can. I know exactly, um, what I have to be worry about, what I have to worry about, um, in the fight. I ha- I know that I have to be careful, like, to see everything because it's MMA. Everything can happen. You cannot just go there and say, "Okay, I'm a champion. Everyone has to fall down."
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No, you cannot. You ca- you have to, um, be wild. You have to be like a wild animal ready for anything. And, uh, but in the same time, you just ... You cannot overestimate your opponent because you are overestimate them, uh, it's gonna be, like, not interesting fight.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  You're gonna be like, uh, just-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Tentative.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... afraid of throwing anything.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And that's why it's you have to find the balance and the balance is everything where you are, um, like, you can do whatever without any fear, but in the same time, very careful. And, um, I n- I never before the fight put some, like, challenges, uh, for me. Would I be good there? Would I be good, like, what I do, like, for the my next fight? I train myself for the different situation and this is what we are working like. And it's not just my work. It's, uh, like, teamwork. Pavel, Antonina, we all watching our opponents and we share what we think about them, what we have to be worry, what we have to work on, and through our training camps, through trainings, we just work on every pos- possible situation. And even, for example, I saw some situation in the fight was happening, like, not with my opponent or, like, different, completely different fight. And we try the situation. We, uh, we try what, uh, how I will, what I will do, how I would escape, or how I will finish from this situation. So we just, um, getting ready for anything and this is what I think help me to, um, take right decision during the fight because I don't have time to think about what I will do next, what my technique will be next. In the fight, it's everything happen, like, instantly. And I have to be sure that my brain and my body ready to act.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's very clear that you have a very well-rounded skill set. But it's also clear that when you're faced with particular challenges, your preparation for those particular challenges almost puts you in a situation where you want to try ... Like, the Juliana Pena fight's a good example of that, right? Like, you shocked the world when you arm barred her e- because everybody felt like if she had a chance to beat you, it would be grappling. And you as a Muay Thai champion, if you had a chance to beat her, it would be your striking. But then when you submitted her, everybody was like, "Holy shit."
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, that was a wake-up call for a lot of people that you're not just well-rounded, but you are capable of finishing everywhere, that you're lethal everywhere.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes. This is what, uh, every time was in my training, my goals for the competition. Uh, not just goes there and compete, but, um, go there and win. Doesn't matter what I have to do to win the fight. I have to find the, uh, solution. I have to find the way to win the fight and every time, it was like my mindset. I'm, I don't like, like, um, this idea just go and have fun in the fight. I don't like idea just, uh, be there and, like, um, just to experience the feeling. I think for someone it's good. But if you have, like, higher goals for yourself, you have to put higher goals, like, higher, like, uh, things what you are thinking for. This isn't in my head. This is what I had since the beginning that, uh, no ma- no matter what happening, I have to find solution to turn the fight to my side and win the fight. And, um, definitely I was like, I understood fighting in ma- mixed martial arts, I have to have more arms. I have to f- uh, have more advantages, like, um, if we are comparing with, um, a- other fighter because, uh, more advantage you have, it's kind of like, um, in the war, right?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, you have a handgun, you have, like, c- certain, like, percentage to win. You have, like, um, more, like, arms in your, like, position, you have more percentages. So I want to have, like, f- 100% and, uh, percentage to win the fight. That's why I was training, like, everything and, um, like, training, uh, not just pretend to do technique, but know how to make people tap after this technique.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. So when you say more arms, you mean more weapons, right?
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Exactly. (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  You mean ... Yeah, yeah. Just for people that ... Now, were you ... Uh, is this something that was just inside of you when you first started doing martial arts? Like, how did you ... When did you realize that you had this competitive spirit that would lead you to become a champion? Was this something that you knew from the beginning or was it something that you developed along the way? Like, did you always know that you wanted to be a martial arts champion?
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, I started, as I say, five years old and as a, like regular child, normal child, like, um, I doubt that anyone at this age would clearly know what they want, what they want to do in the future. For the children, um, like, it's like, what they wanna do? Just have fun, play. Play around with the same children, like around. And this is, uh, I was no exception. So, it was the same. I just wanted to, um, I don't know, just to be a child.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, but, uh, my mom, she put myself and my sister Antonina to the, um, um, gym of Pavel and we started to train there. So, um, she had vision for us that, uh, her children, her daughters have to do martial arts because she is martial artist. And she knew exactly this is something that she want for us, to be strong, to be confident, uh, to be, like, just fearless of anything because martial arts give that all. And, um, definitely at first, it was not anything deep. I mean, like s- knowing that one day I will be the champion or something like that. No, it was, it was just um, um, playing, doing some techniques in form of play and, um, just exercise. But when I start to grew up and I started to understand actually what I doing, like, and what I wanna be in the future, it was, um, I'm saying about like age 12, 13, 14. This is the perfect age for the children, for the child to understand and analyze what they're doing in the life, what they looking for, what they are, is their expectation from the life. And this is the age when I actually started to train with a lot of sense, uh, with a lot of like, uh, I understood that this is my life, this is martial arts, what I wanna be, like I wanna do forever, like (laughs) this, uh, this is what I wanted to do. And, um, I didn't know, um, where it's gonna lead me. I didn't know. It's just like you start one thing, you never know where it's gonna lead. You can expect something, but you don't know how it's gonna end. And for me, it was just like, to have this experience, to have this way in martial arts, just to enjoy the process. And this is how it's everything started, but, um, I would say once I start to understand that this is my life, martial arts, then I put my heart to all, like, trainings and, like, um, I wanted to be better and better. And, uh, there it was I discover my, like, talent, what I can do, what is my good side, and I discovered that I can understand technique way f- faster than other pe- uh, like children the same age and I can perform it, like a little bit better. And so, this is I start to just, ah, to feel it, uh, inside me.
34:10 – 37:56
Family influence and Soviet-era martial arts context
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So, your mother was a martial artist as well?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  She is martial artist.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  She is martial artist.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes. (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Not just was.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, what style did she start with?
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, sh- uh, she's president of Kyrgyzstan Muay Thai Federation actually. (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh. Wow.
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes, she has her student, students. She has her, like, um, team, uh, w- what she's, like train and what, uh, she travel to world championships. But yes, and she started when she was young and it's kind of like was her passion for the, uh, for her life. And I'm so happy that, uh, she decides that this is what we will do, um, because it's kind of like, uh, yes. Because of her, I am where I am right now. (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  So, your mother started with Muay Thai or did she-
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  ... have a bunch of different martial arts as well?
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, y- she started in the, uh, time when it was like karate.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  But, um, um, it was like Soviet Union karate, underground karate because, you know, in Soviet Union it was prohibit to do karate.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Karate was prohibited?
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Until when?
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, until beg- uh, until the Soviet Union collapse. Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Why was p- karate prohibited?
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, because the, um, philosophy of karate, it was against the philo- s- philosophy what, uh, Soviet Union had because karate, it's more like, um, different philosophy. It's like oriental philosophy.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  In Soviet Union, it was, um, everything strict. (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting. So, d- what martial arts were legal in Soviet Union?
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, what sport? The sport, it was, um-
37:56 – 52:34
Being more than a fighter: dance, learning, and the role of a great teacher-coach
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So you start out with taekwondo and then you make your way to Muay Thai and when you are a teenager you, you start deciding that this is going to be your life. Did you have any other dreams or interests or hobbies or passions or was it just martial arts?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  You know, my life it was, uh, so much, uh, different things to do and I, I, I mean, just to learn different things. That I, that's be- that's why I never had this like, "Oh, I want to do that, that." And I never, uh, had this like, "I have to choose one. I have to choose or I am martial artist or I am," like I don't know, something else.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I didn't have, uh... And I'm lucky that I didn't have this, um, like, uh, that I have to choose because, um, for example, um, uh, um, in my opinion, a person can be complete in everything. It doesn't matter, uh, like, um... He can be martial artist but the same way good artist, like paint or, like, play some instrument, musical instrument or singer or, um, good shooter or some different profession because, uh, if we're thinking about for example, we have life, right? And to become a professional in something we are studying. For example, it take five years to be a professional in certain things, right? If you're-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... speaking about university or something like that. So why we don't stay, uh, spend another, like, two, three years to, um, learn something else? Another years to learn more and, uh, it's gonna fulfill you as a person to add more knowledge into you. That's why, uh, for me it's never was like, "Okay, you are just martial artist." My mom she, um, uh, when I started do martial arts she said like, "Okay, uh, you also gonna do dance." So it was like same things that I did since childhood. I was dancing and doing martial artist because it's kind of like balancing each other. (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm. Yes.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  It's like, it's not... You are not going to one side too much and other side. You're going to be in between, keeps a perfect balance. And for example then, um, when I discover the, um, uh, shooting competition it was, uh, another things that I wanted to learn more to be there, like, better every day to just do what I like and same with the languages. I never start, uh, st- uh, I never, uh, end. I don't want to stop to learn. I want to learn every day something new. (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  It's interesting that that, that concept of balance, uh, was written about in the 1400s by Miyamoto Musashi. When he talked about being a great swordsman, he talked about balance, that you had to learn poetry and you had to learn calligraphy and art and he was, he was a big believer that you didn't just concentrate on sword fighting, you concentrated on all these things and that they work synergistically, they work together.
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And, uh, this is true because, um, um, you're a good martial artist, yes. But you want to get... be a good person as well, right?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And more, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's just you are, like, a better person and I think it's, uh, very important. Uh, your education it's means a lot and you have to put, um, all money (laughs) in your education. And not only just, um, like, do whatever you like. What, for example, when you were, uh, growing up for example, any- anyone, uh, had some dreams or some things that was, like, huge inspiration for them and then for the, like, time pass and you're thinking, "Okay, now it's too late to start to learn something," and it's kind of like you're just wasting time. But actually it's never late. It's never late to learn something you w- uh, you were, like, wanted to do all your life. It just, uh, you just have to start, to make your fi- first step and this is the hardest, I think, the first step. But once you do it and when you understand that, uh, this is the, uh, how it should works, how it should be, everything gonna be, like, fine and you gonna just love it and, uh, just continue to learn, continue to grow, continue to, uh, make yourself, uh, a better person. Yeah. (laughs)
13. JRJoe Rogan
  It's so smart that your mother enrolled you also in dance and got you to learn dance as well as martial arts because the two, the skill sets are so interchangeable. Like, you see it like, uh, Vasyl Loma- Lomachenko, perfect example. He learned dance for years and he has this incredible footwork that you see has...... given him a huge advantage in boxing. And with you, when you fight, one thing that I've always noticed is you never are flat-footed.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
15. JRJoe Rogan
  You're always moving, you're always ... You're, you're never a stationary target. You never get lazy. You're always ... Your back heel is always off the ground. And that is not the case with everyone. The people that don't have, like, the kind of leg dexterity that you have, or the kind of, uh, ability to move your, your footwork, they, they ... Maybe that's a big advantage, I think.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I agree and not agree. It's like, um, yes and no, because if you wanna be, um, good one at something, you have to work, you have to spend more time to work on this thing.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  On that thing.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  D- definitely. Dances, uh, they gonna help probably with your balance. Uh, they gonna help with something, but, um, it's not something that would help you to win the fight. (laughs) Definitely no.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you think it helps footwork though?
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, I would say it help with more, like, at first beginning balance, because in dancing, we have a lot of spins, right?
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And, um ... Yeah, d- different dance have different (laughs) level, like, different movements. But I'm speaking about, like, folk dance, what I was doing, like folk dance or, like, R- Russian dance. It's kind of, like, h- part of ballet, h- part of, like, traditional, like s- um, uh, traditional dance of different countries, and, uh, a lot of, um, spins. And definitely, it's, uh, kind of, like, help you to do, like, round kicks-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... or something like that. But, um, I would say if the lead man, your coach have very right of approach of how to teach the students, it's not necessary to do dancing. He can just ... Or she can, uh, just teach their students on how to do the footwork, what is the better way to move or something like that. The other thing, not every coach naturally like teacher, because it also take, uh, a lot of knowledge. Uh, coach has to have this, like, vision of technique, and not only vision of how to teach exactly this technique for every student. No. Also, uh, it's like he has, for example, five different student, five different, like, biometrics, uh, fight style, like, different type of muscles, different, just different. And he has one technique, one, two, like, two straight, like, two hooks, whatever, but everyone would hit it differently. And if the coach see, um, and combine specific of each fighter with their, like, right angle, how to turn the fist or something like that, and can see this detail and say, "Okay, this is your thing. Do it right there. L- uh, this is will work for you." Maybe it's not the classical o- one. Maybe it's not the right what everyone think, like, this is the right way for this, uh, for this punch. Maybe it's, like, just a little bit angled, just something like that. But it's work for the student, and the student is winning with this technique. So, this is the, uh, what, uh, coach has to have, this type of the vision. But what I see, many coaches say, uh, knows their technique and they don't see the specification of each fighter, the, the, like, biotype of the fighter and they try to just break the nature gift what the fighter have and put this technique just, uh, like, what they are thinking is gonna be right. And this is what I want to say is this is wrong because it's kind of, like, um, it's not helping fighter to win and, uh, to get the right, um, um, technique for themself what it will work for them. It's just like, uh, what coach, like, just he is not naturally teacher. This is what I s- I, I mean the most important. It's not about dance. It's not about fighting. It's about right coach what you have.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  So, it's about recognizing that each person is different and not trying to impose one style on all the fighters.
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Exactly. Exactly, because, uh, even one style can be different. Even, uh, like, it's the same, but a little bit different.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Just small details. And, uh, coach has to see it. He, he has to understand.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  And that's really where the art in martial arts comes from, right?
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
52:34 – 56:55
Longevity and prime years: why she avoids retirement deadlines
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you have, uh, an idea of when you're going to stop competing?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, no, no. I don't have any idea because I like the way, uh, the, uh, the lifestyle what I have right now. I feel myself so strong, so healthy, so good. That's why I want to experience that feeling as long as I can. I want to see what my body is capable of. I want to see my limits. I want to see, uh, where I can go. Because if you're, like, um, put in this, uh, certain day, certain year-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... till what time you gonna compete, it's kind of like, um... My opinion, it's not good because you starting go to your end-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... slowly but surely. (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. It messes with your head.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  You think about it.
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I think so. And if you are just, um, enjoy the time what you are and, and just experience and want to, uh, just do the best things what you can without like, okay, this is my limit. And you just do it the best way you can, and this is the only way to explore what you're capable of.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  So right now, you're 33?
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  And so this is the prime of your athletic life?
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I hope it still come. (laughs)
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It still comes.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  It still coming. (laughs)
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, this is, but it's-
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  It's- I'm sure there's years to go, but this is, like, athletically, they, they say early 30s for a fighter is their prime because that's when their mind catches up with their body. Like...
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I would add a little bit more about the, um... We don't know because, uh, if a, if compare, like, what it was, um, five, 10 years ago, what, uh, how people were, like, at age 30 years old, for example, 10 years ago, they would feel themselves as like, okay, so like, it's a lot. They are already, like, family persons and they are, like, not thinking about competing or do something. Now, we have a different scale. Now, people, like, at age 30, they feel younger than it was before. That's why I don't know how, like, if we can say this is a prime. Maybe not. Maybe prime, it's now 40 years old.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Ah.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Who knows? (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I think it's you love competition so much-
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you wanna drag it out.
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  You wanna stretch it out.
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Probably.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I love it a lot, but it's so hard. It's so hard-
56:55 – 1:12:45
Training philosophy: minimal gadgets, one hard session, MMA integrated
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Um, when you're talking about your body and your mind, um, and the, the difficulty, uh, you're, you're now training at the UFC Performance Institute, which is, uh, an amazing facility in Las Vegas, which for sure helps the body, right?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Oh, definitely.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Because you have access to state-of-the-art equipment, state-of-the-art coaches and nutritionists, and it's an amazing place. Do you work on your mind in, in sense of do you, uh, study psychology? Do you meditate? Nothing?
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  No. No.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, I have very different, very unusual approach towards my trainings. Um, for example, physically, I don't like to train with, uh, weights. I don't like to train with, um, some, like, um, very popular equip- equipment what's, like, modern fighters work in. I prefer, like, focus myself on the training in the gym. For the mental, I work on my mental game during the training as well. Um, for example, I give (laughs) this example. Uh, my coach, he set in time, 5-0, he set in time how many minutes one round is going to be, how long the training going to be. So, uh, coming into the gym, we don't have, like, from 10:00 to 11:00, this is our training, from 10:00 to 12:00, this is a limit for our training. No, we have, like, um, three, four hours, the window, and it's decision of Pavel when the training gonna stop. So, and it can go all three hours, (laughs) sometimes all four hours. It's all up to him. And this is like, uh, for example, this is the mental preparation, the mental game that, uh, you are dying in the training physically, but your mind is saying, "Continue." Your coach ins- is saying, "Continue," and you are pushing yourself to continue. This is the best mental preparation what you ha- uh, yeah, you can have for the fight.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  When your body already says, "I cannot," but your mind say, "Yes, you can." It's kind of like opening the second respiration, second respiration? (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yeah, something like that. (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  So, through this difficult training and forcing yourself to stay focused in the gym, that's where your mental training comes from?
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, yes, because, um, as I said earlier, to, uh, be the best version of yourself in anything, in something, in martial arts for example, you have to do everything what's considering this martial arts. You cannot do, uh, like, psychology, psychology-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm. Yeah.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... apart, because if you go to, um... As a person who doesn't know what is that fighter psychology or never was in the fight, it doesn't know how it feels in the fight, they will give you wrong, uh, advices.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  They will teach you wrong things. No, so it's, uh, uh, it's completely you don't want to happen. It's something that, um, gonna mess, it's gonna, like, choke to each other-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... strike each other, and be so- completely, like, not-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Incompatible.
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Exactly. So, this is you never want to happen.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you get advice from other fighters? Did you, did you, like, train with other champions and get advice from them at all?
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I trained with other champions, but, um, I don't need advices. The only person who I take advices, uh, this is my coach, my sister, and my mom, only three person-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... what I consider that they are, have rights (laughs) to give me advices.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, obviously, it's working.
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  This is the most important. (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, the, the most important thing is that it's working.
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  But, but it doesn't matter I won't listen their something, like, what people have, uh, uh, rights-
1:12:45 – 1:28:15
Opponents, weight classes, and the Amanda Nunes super-fight question
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you take trips specifically, like, if like, say, if you're going to face someone who's a- a great Judo expert, do you train specifically, like, do- would you go to a place and train with, like, a Kayla Harrison or something like that, or someone who was specifically, uh, a Judo stylist?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  First of all, uh, we considering to have a similar weight class.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  This is the number one rule because, uh, for example, if someone is ... I'm not just speaking about Kayla right now. (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I'm speaking like in general.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  She's big. (laughs)
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I know. (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I'm speaking about general.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Sometimes, it's like, uh, it's not beneficial.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  (clears throat)
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Even the, uh, like, uh, person, they are, like, skillful, super controlled and do, like, so good their things. It's, um ... They just don't do it in their heart full power-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh-huh.
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... because they are just bigger.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And they're just stronger. It's, uh, not good for you because you have to feel this, like, uh, moment when you're kind of like breaking them or they kind of like have this thing when they are like in their technique. You have to feel the moment.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  You have to be able to go hard.
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Exactly.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And this is, like, the number one rule. So I like to train, and I'm train with a, uh, training partner similar my weight class.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  When you have competed at 135 pounds, was that an issue? Like, when, when you went up to 135, well, y- your first fights in the UFC, there was no 125-pound division.
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  So, like, when you fought Holly Holm, when you fought Amanda Nunes, these fights are all at 135 pounds.
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Mm-hmm.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you feel, when you were in that division, th- that you were just a little undersized?
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Oh, yes, (laughs) definitely-
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... I was a smaller one (laughs) .
1:28:15 – 1:45:29
Women’s MMA growth and the long road to the UFC
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you think there's enough weight classes in the UFC? Would you like to see more weight classes?
2. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Uh, for the female fighters?
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
4. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Um, like, 145, 105-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... something like that or-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Like the way they do it-
8. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... something between?
9. JRJoe Rogan
  ... with boxing. You know how boxing has, uh, so many champions and they have so many different weight classes. You know, in boxing they have, you know, oftentimes like every four or five pounds-
10. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Mm-hmm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... would be a new weight class.
12. VSValentina Shevchenko
  I think, um, like to lose that much I don't feel it's gonna worth it. Like, um, I don't feel, um, that is gonna... It's something that, uh, UFC has to do because UFC has so unique type and it's like, uh, it's uncomparable to anything. It's, uh, uh, my opinion, it's even bigger than Olympics. It's, uh, way bigger than Olympics. That's why, um, yeah, maybe 105 for the smaller girl.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
14. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Or 145, we have 145. So, but not in between. I don't think so.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's, um... There's a much m- m- more limited talent pool as well, right?
16. VSValentina Shevchenko
  It's just not so many, um, mixed martial arts fighters like this, um. Because what is UFC? It's, uh, UFC it's rosters, it's the best ones.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
18. VSValentina Shevchenko
  The best ones in the world. It's not just a small league what you have like different levels of competitors. It's like you can see the roster and it's like, oh, low level-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
20. VSValentina Shevchenko
  ... here's the high level. No, here it's like fr- since the beginning to the end, super high level of everyone.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. VSValentina Shevchenko
  This is like why... Uh, this is what is make it so unique, so special.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's really interesting because that level has increased dramatically over the last decade and a half. When we first sta- saw Ronda Rousey competing in the UFC, some of the earliest female fights in the UFC, the competition that she was facing was just not at the same level as the male competition that... But now when you see like Rose Namajunas versus Zhang Weili, like that is a very, very high level fight. And it's very exciting 'cause they're both world champion-
24. VSValentina Shevchenko
  Yes.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... elite martial artists. So when, when they fight you're seeing two of the best of the best period in the sport.
26. VSValentina Shevchenko
  It is. And this is saying about how fast and how far mixed martial art developed.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
28. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And like even if you're comparing like UFC fighters 15, 20 years ago, it's gonna be different. Now it's like mixed martial mar- uh, arts it's complete fight style. It's, uh, not a fight between standup fighter, boxer or wrestler. It's two high level mix MMA fighters who are like know how to dominate like exac- uh, so good in boxing, so good kicking, like TaeKwonDo, so good wrestlers and like grapplers. So it's speaking about the how, uh, MMA develops through the years and it's amazing because now we can see, uh, there is no difference female fighter, male fighter. They are just like performing the best way and it's amazing watch them how they compete.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  It really is amazing when you think back from when you first started training martial arts as a five-year-old girl in 1993 to today, the UFC is almost unrecognizable. If you go back and watch any other sport from 1993, b- say like football or basketball, it looks similar. They mean you might have better athletes today-
30. VSValentina Shevchenko
  And-