JRE MMA Show #115 with Valentina Schevchenko

Valentina Shevchenko 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Joe Rogan 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Okay, here we go. Valentina, pleasure to have you in here. Very excited.

Valentina Shevchenko 0:18 Yes. Finally I'm here, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:19 (laughs) Finally, yeah. I mean, we've been talking about it for a while and, uh, I've been a fan of yours for quite a long time. You're a very unusual person, very unusual.

Valentina Shevchenko 0:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:27 I mean, it's, it's unusual to be a martial arts champion, but you are ... You're an unusual martial arts champion. I mean, you're very ... You're very diverse. You have so many skills and talents. It's very strange. Like, how does one ... First of all, how many languages do you speak?

Valentina Shevchenko 0:43 Um, three what I speak, and I'm learning fourths. I learning Thai now.

Joe Rogan 0:49 You're learning Thai?

Valentina Shevchenko 0:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:50 'Cause you were speaking Thai after one of your fights.

Valentina Shevchenko 0:52 The last one, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:53 Yeah. So it sounds like you know it. Like you say you're learning it, but you, you got a lot to say.

Valentina Shevchenko 0:59 Uh, yeah, it's kind of like I can say a lot, but, uh, when I mean I'm learning, I want to, um ... So once I will speak it, like, fluently-

Joe Rogan 1:10 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10 ... and I will understand, like, native people so good, then I consider it, yes, I speak language. Before that, it's kind of still learning and I think, um, I started to learning, like, couple years ago, but, um, I think it's very important to have practice with native people.

Joe Rogan 1:29 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29 Go to Thailand and, like, forget about speaking English, just speak Thai, and this is how, like, um, you just adopt everything. So this is what I ... I want to put this language, Thai language, on the next level. Then I will say, okay, four. Now four. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:46 So, like, you immerse yourself?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:49 Um, maybe. Yeah. Kind of. Uh, because, for me, um, I try to do everything, like, as best way I can. Not the perfection way, right, but the best what I can.

Joe Rogan 2:03 Now, your first language is Russian?

Valentina Shevchenko 2:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:05 And when did you learn other ... When did you start learning other languages?

Valentina Shevchenko 2:09 Um, so, English, it was ... I started to learn it in the school, just some basics, because it's like a school program. We learn alphabet, some just very easy words, and nothing enough for, like, speaking, uh, level. But when I started to compete and go and travel for the competition, that was, like, my push for, uh, bringing, uh, my l- um, like, uh, language level to the next level. And, uh, when we moved to, um, South America, then I started to learn, uh, Spanish. But learning Spanish, it was, uh, kind of like the hard way. I came there with no one word in Spanish. No one word, and it's straight, like, to there. "If you want to learn Spanish, you have to speak Spanish right now." And, uh, I say from the moment what I started to speak to the moment when I, uh, was kind of, like, given my first interview, it was four months. After four months, I was giving my first interview in Spanish. It was not the perfect Spanish, but I still could communicate. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:17 So talk us through this journey. So why did you go to South America?

Valentina Shevchenko 3:23 Um, I, uh, was born in Kyrgyzstan. My, um, sister, she is martial artist. I was, uh, starting my training when I was very young age, five years old, and definitely, uh, um, like, through all the years what I practice in martial arts, I compete a lot. Every competition, a lot of martial arts, and, um, so, um, I started to compete in Kyrgyzstan. Then there was not any competition, like, any, um, opponents, and it was, like, hard to compete already. Then, uh, we start to travel. My coach, Pavel, with who I train, like, since the beginning, uh, he decide, like, to, um, "Okay, let's explore something new." We move to Russia for a couple years, and then it was like also no p- uh, uh, opponents to fight with, and, uh, we decided to move next and to see how to, like, explore. And definitely, um, I think for martial arts, for MMA, for, like, anything in S- South America, it's, um, a good place to. And mostly it's, um, interesting to explore, interesting culture from Russia, Kyrgyzstan, it's very far. It's kind of l- like s- totally different culture, and we decide to explore over there. We come to, um, South America and people there just wanted to learn a lot Muay Thai. We started to train, give, uh, like, classes, and they was asking for the seminars, and we stay a little bit more, a little bit more, and then we decide, "Okay, why we not stay here and live here?"

Joe Rogan 5:01 Hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 5:01 And we stay there and lived for eight years.

Joe Rogan 5:04 So you initially went there just to find people to compete with?

Valentina Shevchenko 5:08 No. Initially it was, um ... Mm, it's very hard to say in one word what it was initially, because I'm not traveling for looking for a gym. I'm not traveling looking for, um, something, like, one. I'm traveling for, to explore new places, to explore new culture, to, uh, have different, like, uh, adventures, if I can say, and this is what's initial reason for traveling, to, uh, see what is there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:40 Hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 5:41 So and once you are there, you kind of like, okay, uh, South America, it's very interesting, um, continent. It's like, uh, it's not just one con- uh, country, like Peru, where we both live in. It's Argentina. It's Brazil. It's Colombia. It's Ecuador, Chile. It's so many different countries, and you want to, uh, be there. You want to explore what is there. You want to see how people live, what they's thinking, what they believe, and it's kind of like it's, uh, pulling you into it. It's, uh, very hard to say, "Okay, uh, now it's time to go back," because every time when I am traveling, I want to explore more. I want to see deeper. It's... For me, it's not enough to see with a tourist eyes. "Okay, I take picture here, there. I've been there. Mark." No, it's not enough for me. I want to understand what actually people, uh, how they live.

Joe Rogan 6:33 ... has this always been something that's fascinating to you? Like, what draws you to want to know so much about these different cultures?

Valentina Shevchenko 6:39 Uh, yes. Uh, I, I remember it was since the beginning. I just like, uh, it was, uh, it is huge part of my life. It's everything about me, and I think it's kind of like the best school, the best education what one can get. Because, um, definitely when you are in school you can, uh, learn something but this is like a real school.

Joe Rogan 7:03 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 7:03 And the travel, it put you in different life situation and you have to know how to react. You have to learn how to communicate with, uh, like other people because a intra- uh, for example, I can say, uh, in your city, in your street, in your country, you can be the superstar. You travel somewhere else and like, uh, for example, if you are local star and you go to the other country and you're kind of like there, okay, it's okay but what? And you have to know how to deal, how to communicate with other people and it's put you on the ground every time. And it's kind of like good even for the, uh, especially for the fighters.

Joe Rogan 7:45 So if you talk me through the progression of your career when you moved to Peru first, that's where you moved? Were you already a world Muay Thai champion?

Valentina Shevchenko 7:56 Oh, yes. It was, um, five or seven, five or seven Muay Thai world championships.

Joe Rogan 8:02 And did you worry that you wouldn't get good training partners there or w- they wouldn't be at the same elite level that you're at?

Valentina Shevchenko 8:10 Um, (sighs) that part ... First, I'm never worried about to find, uh, right training partner because I know this is the world. It's like so many, uh, good training partners. So many different people, so many, like, you can find anyone. Uh, no matter, like, if it's, like, a small place, big place, you can find, uh, good level for your trainings. The most important, um, it's I think one of the most important ones, it's, uh, to have right coach.

Joe Rogan 8:43 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 8:44 Because no matter how good, uh, um, fighter can be, if it's going to be not right approach... If it's going to be right approach, he can rise or she can rise. If it's going to be super much talent, but not right approach, he will fall.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 9:02 And this is, uh, like the, the, the worst things I, I think could happen. That's why the most important what I was worry about, do you have right coach with me? That's why I'm travel everywhere Pavel goes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:14 So Pavel has been with you from the very beginning?

Valentina Shevchenko 9:17 Yes. Yes, from the very beginning.

Joe Rogan 9:19 That's a huge advantage.

Valentina Shevchenko 9:20 He is my coach from the first, um, uh, day in his gym.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Oh, wow.

Valentina Shevchenko 9:26 S- from the, like, I started five years old, when I had five years old.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Wow, so you've been with s- him since you were-

Valentina Shevchenko 9:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:31 ... five years old?

Valentina Shevchenko 9:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:33 Wow.

Valentina Shevchenko 9:33 I am fighting and training 28 years.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Wow.

Valentina Shevchenko 9:36 Yeah, and since there, it's li- it's mos- m- more like a coach. We are a team. Me, my sister, Pavel, uh, we team who, like, sharing the, um, um, like so much things in common. We love the same things, uh, traveling, exploring, um, like, uh, see different people. And, uh, yeah, it's not just a sport, it's like a, a family.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Well, it's very fortunate that he was willing to travel with you. If he didn't want to move to South America, would you have stayed in, in Russia?

Valentina Shevchenko 10:11 Uh, it's, you know, it's, um, it's hard to tell... Uh, it's not hard to tell because, um, I think at the certain point when, uh, everything come in one, like, in something, one complete, it's not a question if they don't want, if, like, something happen differently, because everything happen as it has to happen.

Joe Rogan 10:38 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 10:38 And you never think what it would be if it would be different way. It just happen what, h- how it happened. And I know that this passion for travel, it's not just my passion. Um, Pavel shares the same passion for travel. My sister shares, uh, the same. That's why we are, like, a, a good and strong team. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:57 Yeah, it's a perfect combination. So when you moved to Peru, you had no problem finding world-class s- strikers to train with and people to work out with?

Valentina Shevchenko 11:06 Uh, you know, it's kind of like, uh, when we moved there, uh, firstly, we started to train and to teach Muay Thai and give different seminars because, um, before it was mostly kickboxing. So Muay Thai, it's more deeper martial arts. It's l- more complete martial arts because, uh, kickboxing and just hands and, uh, kicks. Uh, Muay Thai, it's everything. It's k- um, elbow, knee, and clinching so you can wrestle till the ground. So it's kind of like more complete and it has different, um, fight character rather than kickboxing. And this is what we starting to do. But, um, every time we was traveling, uh, even we were, like, living in Peru, we spend it for, uh, three, four months in Thailand every time.

Joe Rogan 12:00 Really?

Valentina Shevchenko 12:00 So... Yes. And this is amazing because, for example, we travel for the world championship there and we just stay there for another, like, two, three months.

Joe Rogan 12:09 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 12:09 And this is the best part. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:11 So, um, where were you training out of in Thailand? Were you at Tiger Muay Thai?

Valentina Shevchenko 12:16 Um, last six, seven years, it's Tiger Muay Thai. It's gym what I represent, what I fight for. Uh, before it was Koh Samui WMC Lamai gym. Uh, so, uh, for me, it's every time I was like if it's Thailand, it's islands.

Joe Rogan 12:34 Mm. And what is the benefit of training in Thailand as opposed to training other places?

Valentina Shevchenko 12:42 Um, I would say the spirit, because, um, what is Muay Thai? It's Thailand. It's spirit of Thailand. And, um, definitely to train in Thailand, you have enjoy everything. But I'm not, um, fanatic of, like, people, uh, who just come in there and train in, like, three session a day and they don't explore, um, Thailand, what is that? They explore the culture, explore the food, explore what's around. They just spend, like, um, uh, all their time in the gym without see what's happening outside. To understand the full picture, you have experienced everything. That's why, um, I say every time, if you want to put, uh, yourself on the next level, you have to train, but also, like, speak with the people and see what's happening around. So, it's kind- kind of like open your eyes more widey.

Joe Rogan 13:43 And you think that actually improves your skill set? It just improves your perspective, which improves your skill set?

Valentina Shevchenko 13:50 I think everything tie to each other. So, there is no, for example ... Uh, I- I- I- I would put this example. I started to learn, um, um ... So, I speak English. I speak Spanish. Right? And when I speak, um, when I started to learn new language, it was helping me to, uh, improve my first language. So, it's kind of like, yes, it's totally different language, but it's helping me to, uh, uh, to put on the better level something what I have already.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 14:26 That's- that's why it's very hard to say if you do something, it doesn't help to, um, get to put on the next level what already you have. So, it's interchange. It's something that, uh, influence on each other. That's why, for me, it's every time, uh, yes, to have better skills in sport, in ... No matter what sport. Mixed martial arts, just art- martial arts or, like, whatever. Definitely you have to spend enough time on your technique (laughs) . You have to spend enough time on your skills, but sometimes it's just not enough. Sometimes you have to go out and see something else, uh, I mean like, um, the character of the fight of different fighter to get this experience, to try it on yourself. Not only just, like, "Okay, this is my technique and I will perform it the best way that I can." Yes, but sometimes you have to add yourself, your spirit in tho- in this technique to modify it, uh, especially how it will- will work for you. And this is only way how you know this technique will work. It's, uh, if you are just, like, doing it because someone told you that it's right, it's one thing, but e- when you started to actually feel the technique, then it's became your, like, so natural things that it's kind of, like, uh, like, dangerous for everyone.

Joe Rogan 15:52 Did ... Is this something that you learned to ... That things all help other things? Like, whatever you do, the more you experience, the broader your understanding of things, the better it helps all of the things you do? Or is it something you were taught?

Valentina Shevchenko 16:08 Uh, it's combination. It's combination. What I, um, what my fr- mother was told me, what my coach, what Pavel told me, and definitely my own experience, because I see it works. First, I hear from them it works. It's one thing. When I- when actually I see it works, it's kind of like, uh, put stronger impact on you.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 16:34 And definitely, uh, for the experience what I have, uh, uh, through the, like, all years what I practice in martial arts, I see this is the only one, uh, like, way how put your level on the n- uh, your game on the next level.

Joe Rogan 16:49 And now it's just intuitive? Now this is just how you approach things naturally?

Valentina Shevchenko 16:54 Yes and no. It's combination. Sometimes you have to, um, to break something, like, for example, uh, you trying to learn something new and you go for it. And you go for it and you try. It's like ... And you have, like, barrier. You cannot, like, break this barrier. And you try and you try and you try. Uh, sometimes you have to put there a little bit more pressure to break the barrier. And it doesn't, um, consist with anything like feeling or something like, um, uh, intuition, something like that. But, uh, once you break it, then it's, like, different level and then when you have to start to learn how to feel it from inside to perform it the better way.

Joe Rogan 17:43 So, your ... What was your initial martial art you started with when you were five years old?

Valentina Shevchenko 17:47 Uh, I started with taekwondo, taekwondo ITF. Uh, yeah. This is was my first sport.

Joe Rogan 17:54 And then how did you branch out from there? Like, what were the years? What ... Wh- when did you start training in different arts?

Valentina Shevchenko 18:01 Um, so it's ... Uh, every time, the ... What- what, uh, was idea of Pavel, uh, Pavel every time was thinking about universal fighter, about, like, fighter who, uh, doesn't have any, like, problem. Uh, for example, if you are speaking about striker, striker every time would feel something weird and, like, uncomfortable when, uh, someone other start to wrestle him. Right?

Joe Rogan 18:32 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 18:32 And wrestler, he ... Uh, definitely he will feel not the best, uh, the- the strength when he's fighting. So, the idea every time was to-... be, like, universal, to create from, uh, his student universal fighters. That's why he put us in different competition as Kyrgyzstan, it's, uh, it's little country and there is so many martial arts. So many, uh, like schools and Pavel have friends like presidents of, uh, federation of karate, of presidentation of, uh, like different style of Taekwondo, uh, um, Wushu Sanda, so, like, different competition we, uh, would have. And we competed in different ones, like, uh, in my childhood it was like thousand different competition.

Joe Rogan 19:20 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 19:20 And i- this is what, like, um, um, help me to feel the different style of fighting, different technique, and, um, I never, uh, had, like, um, problem to fight in different style. It was, uh, problem- it wa- it, it was kind of like how good you can transfor- transform yourself for the, uh, like, switch the chip for the different martial artists. That's why there, um, I cannot say there was like, "Okay, this day I switch standup for the crowd."

Joe Rogan 19:57 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 19:57 Or, like, I start to train, like, Muay Thai since this day, because, um, it's just never happen. It was everything l- everything, like, uh, so naturally development, like, um, going from one style to the another style. And more, uh, if we're speaking about Taekwondo, there is, like, a Taekwondo professional style, pro Taekwondo. It's, uh, uh, the same, like, fighting, similar to Muay Thai but, uh, uh, they wrestle with more, like, um, throws. I mean, like, like Judo throws or freestyle wrestling throws, so it's m- more, like, wide variety of throws. So it's kind of, like, also help for, um, um, my competition in Muay Thai. Um, yeah, but, um, when I started to compete more frequently in Muay Thai, it's, um, I would say since 2003.

Joe Rogan 20:55 And then you became just w- much more Muay Thai focused?

Valentina Shevchenko 20:59 Um, much more it started about 2005, '6, uh, because before, it was like, we already started to fight Muay Thai, MMA, and on that time, it was less competition for female fighters in mixed martial arts.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 21:19 It was very hard to find, like, frequent fights. If you want to keep, like, busy and fight every time, you would fight, like, more like in standup, because there is more, uh, opportunities for you. And this is what it's, uh, how it started that I start to focus more in Muay Thai, because it was more opportunities in Muay Thai. But, uh, in 2010, when, uh, female MMA started to, like, just like boom, explode, yeah, we definitely was, uh, like thinking to come back, do the same, and we started to compete in Muay Thai and MMA.

Joe Rogan 21:56 So it's interesting that your- the beginning of your journey in martial arts coincides with the beginning of the UFC. So if we go back 28 years, th- we're talking about, like, 1993, right? Like that is the beginning of the UFC.

Valentina Shevchenko 22:12 (laughs) Oh my god. (laughs) It's a good example, no?

Joe Rogan 22:15 Yeah, it's a perfect example, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 22:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:17 Because one of the things that we've always said, uh, as th- this sport has grown is that it's really interesting to watch these young kids growing up with martial arts, with mixed martial arts, as opposed to, you know, they would be 30 years old with a lifetime of wrestling and then learn how to strike and then enter the UFC. We're seeing people, like yourself, that when you started your martial arts journey was the beginning of the UFC, which is pretty crazy.

Valentina Shevchenko 22:46 Uh, it is, and I think it's, um, in some-

Joe Rogan 22:49 And now you're a UFC champion.

Valentina Shevchenko 22:51 I know.

Joe Rogan 22:51 It's crazy.

Valentina Shevchenko 22:52 I- it's something that, uh, meant so much for me now, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:57 Yeah. Well, you're not just a UFC champion, you're one of the best champions. It's very, it's very unique to watch you fight, because you're, you're one of those people, like Anderson Silva in his prime, where you've kind of cleaned out your division. You know? Um, and there's no disrespect to your opponents, but some of your oppo- opponents, when I'm watching you fight them, I'm not thinking, are they going to beat you? I'm thinking, what are you going to do to them? That's- it's a strange position to be in, where you're almost, like, competing, you're competing against these women, but your level is so much higher than everyone else in this 125-pound division, that there's just not much there for you, in terms of, like, Valentina has to fight this woman. There, there's no fight like that for you.

Valentina Shevchenko 23:47 I think that, um, definitely, this is one of my goals. In my, uh, performance, in my training, and, um, definitely this is, like, what I, um, the idea of my fight style, to be able to, um, win the fight, make the fight, uh, very beautiful from the technical side, very intensive, very, like, uh, just high level martial arts. But in the same time without do it like dirty fight, like street fight, just a, like, different level, when you can finish your opponent without, uh, them touch you.

Joe Rogan 24:29 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 24:29 So this is kind of like, like ideally idea (laughs) ideal.

Joe Rogan 24:34 Yeah. Well, you can see how you sometimes impose the opponent's style on them.It's almost like you're challenging yourself, like the Jessica Andrade fight. Like, in the, coming into that fight, most people thought the only way she would have any sort of advantage at all would possibly be grappling. And so what did you do? You out-grappled her.

Valentina Shevchenko 24:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:55 Like, did you do that on purpose?

Valentina Shevchenko 24:56 No. No.

Joe Rogan 24:57 No?

Valentina Shevchenko 24:57 No. Uh, I don't know. Uh, this is what I think. It, it's no. (laughs) Because, uh, maybe, huh, people just, like, was s- speaking about that so much, so frequently before the fight. Maybe it just stay in my, like, mind and was there. But, you know, I never felt that this is a position dangerous for me. Since the beginning, since the like ... I, I know exactly, uh, h- uh, what is my strength. I know exactly what is my power. Um, that's why it's never was a doubt would I be good there? No. Um, I know what I can. I know exactly, um, what I have to be worry about, what I have to worry about, um, in the fight. I ha- I know that I have to be careful, like, to see everything because it's MMA. Everything can happen. You cannot just go there and say, "Okay, I'm a champion. Everyone has to fall down."

Joe Rogan 25:56 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 25:56 No, you cannot. You ca- you have to, um, be wild. You have to be like a wild animal ready for anything. And, uh, but in the same time, you just ... You cannot overestimate your opponent because you are overestimate them, uh, it's gonna be, like, not interesting fight.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 26:15 You're gonna be like, uh, just-

Joe Rogan 26:17 Tentative.

Valentina Shevchenko 26:18 ... afraid of throwing anything.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 26:20 And that's why it's you have to find the balance and the balance is everything where you are, um, like, you can do whatever without any fear, but in the same time, very careful. And, um, I n- I never before the fight put some, like, challenges, uh, for me. Would I be good there? Would I be good, like, what I do, like, for the my next fight? I train myself for the different situation and this is what we are working like. And it's not just my work. It's, uh, like, teamwork. Pavel, Antonina, we all watching our opponents and we share what we think about them, what we have to be worry, what we have to work on, and through our training camps, through trainings, we just work on every pos- possible situation. And even, for example, I saw some situation in the fight was happening, like, not with my opponent or, like, different, completely different fight. And we try the situation. We, uh, we try what, uh, how I will, what I will do, how I would escape, or how I will finish from this situation. So we just, um, getting ready for anything and this is what I think help me to, um, take right decision during the fight because I don't have time to think about what I will do next, what my technique will be next. In the fight, it's everything happen, like, instantly. And I have to be sure that my brain and my body ready to act.

Joe Rogan 27:54 Well, it's very clear that you have a very well-rounded skill set. But it's also clear that when you're faced with particular challenges, your preparation for those particular challenges almost puts you in a situation where you want to try ... Like, the Juliana Pena fight's a good example of that, right? Like, you shocked the world when you arm barred her e- because everybody felt like if she had a chance to beat you, it would be grappling. And you as a Muay Thai champion, if you had a chance to beat her, it would be your striking. But then when you submitted her, everybody was like, "Holy shit."

Valentina Shevchenko 28:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:25 Like, that was a wake-up call for a lot of people that you're not just well-rounded, but you are capable of finishing everywhere, that you're lethal everywhere.

Valentina Shevchenko 28:37 Yes. This is what, uh, every time was in my training, my goals for the competition. Uh, not just goes there and compete, but, um, go there and win. Doesn't matter what I have to do to win the fight. I have to find the, uh, solution. I have to find the way to win the fight and every time, it was like my mindset. I'm, I don't like, like, um, this idea just go and have fun in the fight. I don't like idea just, uh, be there and, like, um, just to experience the feeling. I think for someone it's good. But if you have, like, higher goals for yourself, you have to put higher goals, like, higher, like, uh, things what you are thinking for. This isn't in my head. This is what I had since the beginning that, uh, no ma- no matter what happening, I have to find solution to turn the fight to my side and win the fight. And, um, definitely I was like, I understood fighting in ma- mixed martial arts, I have to have more arms. I have to f- uh, have more advantages, like, um, if we are comparing with, um, a- other fighter because, uh, more advantage you have, it's kind of like, um, in the war, right?

Joe Rogan 29:54 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 29:54 Uh, you have a handgun, you have, like, c- certain, like, percentage to win. You have, like, um, more, like, arms in your, like, position, you have more percentages. So I want to have, like, f- 100% and, uh, percentage to win the fight. That's why I was training, like, everything and, um, like, training, uh, not just pretend to do technique, but know how to make people tap after this technique.

Joe Rogan 30:23 Yeah. So when you say more arms, you mean more weapons, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 30:26 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:26 You mean ... Yeah, yeah. Just for people that ... Now, were you ... Uh, is this something that was just inside of you when you first started doing martial arts? Like, how did you ... When did you realize that you had this competitive spirit that would lead you to become a champion? Was this something that you knew from the beginning or was it something that you developed along the way? Like, did you always know that you wanted to be a martial arts champion?

Valentina Shevchenko 30:50 Um, I started, as I say, five years old and as a, like regular child, normal child, like, um, I doubt that anyone at this age would clearly know what they want, what they want to do in the future. For the children, um, like, it's like, what they wanna do? Just have fun, play. Play around with the same children, like around. And this is, uh, I was no exception. So, it was the same. I just wanted to, um, I don't know, just to be a child.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 31:26 Uh, but, uh, my mom, she put myself and my sister Antonina to the, um, um, gym of Pavel and we started to train there. So, um, she had vision for us that, uh, her children, her daughters have to do martial arts because she is martial artist. And she knew exactly this is something that she want for us, to be strong, to be confident, uh, to be, like, just fearless of anything because martial arts give that all. And, um, definitely at first, it was not anything deep. I mean, like s- knowing that one day I will be the champion or something like that. No, it was, it was just um, um, playing, doing some techniques in form of play and, um, just exercise. But when I start to grew up and I started to understand actually what I doing, like, and what I wanna be in the future, it was, um, I'm saying about like age 12, 13, 14. This is the perfect age for the children, for the child to understand and analyze what they're doing in the life, what they looking for, what they are, is their expectation from the life. And this is the age when I actually started to train with a lot of sense, uh, with a lot of like, uh, I understood that this is my life, this is martial arts, what I wanna be, like I wanna do forever, like (laughs) this, uh, this is what I wanted to do. And, um, I didn't know, um, where it's gonna lead me. I didn't know. It's just like you start one thing, you never know where it's gonna lead. You can expect something, but you don't know how it's gonna end. And for me, it was just like, to have this experience, to have this way in martial arts, just to enjoy the process. And this is how it's everything started, but, um, I would say once I start to understand that this is my life, martial arts, then I put my heart to all, like, trainings and, like, um, I wanted to be better and better. And, uh, there it was I discover my, like, talent, what I can do, what is my good side, and I discovered that I can understand technique way f- faster than other pe- uh, like children the same age and I can perform it, like a little bit better. And so, this is I start to just, ah, to feel it, uh, inside me.

Joe Rogan 34:10 So, your mother was a martial artist as well?

Valentina Shevchenko 34:12 She is martial artist.

Joe Rogan 34:13 She is martial artist.

Valentina Shevchenko 34:13 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:14 Not just was.

Valentina Shevchenko 34:15 No.

Joe Rogan 34:15 Um, what style did she start with?

Valentina Shevchenko 34:17 Uh, sh- uh, she's president of Kyrgyzstan Muay Thai Federation actually. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:23 Oh. Wow.

Valentina Shevchenko 34:23 Yes, she has her student, students. She has her, like, um, team, uh, w- what she's, like train and what, uh, she travel to world championships. But yes, and she started when she was young and it's kind of like was her passion for the, uh, for her life. And I'm so happy that, uh, she decides that this is what we will do, um, because it's kind of like, uh, yes. Because of her, I am where I am right now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:57 So, your mother started with Muay Thai or did she-

Valentina Shevchenko 35:00 No.

Joe Rogan 35:00 ... have a bunch of different martial arts as well?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:01 Uh, y- she started in the, uh, time when it was like karate.

Joe Rogan 35:06 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 35:06 But, um, um, it was like Soviet Union karate, underground karate because, you know, in Soviet Union it was prohibit to do karate.

Joe Rogan 35:14 Karate was prohibited?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Really?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Interesting.

Valentina Shevchenko 35:18 And-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Until when?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:19 Um, until beg- uh, until the Soviet Union collapse. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:23 Why was p- karate prohibited?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:25 Um, because the, um, philosophy of karate, it was against the philo- s- philosophy what, uh, Soviet Union had because karate, it's more like, um, different philosophy. It's like oriental philosophy.

Joe Rogan 35:40 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 35:40 In Soviet Union, it was, um, everything strict. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:45 Interesting. So, d- what martial arts were legal in Soviet Union?

Valentina Shevchenko 35:49 Um, what sport? The sport, it was, um-

Joe Rogan 35:53 Boxing, judo.

Valentina Shevchenko 35:54 Uh, boxing, uh, it was sambo.

Joe Rogan 35:58 Sambo.

Valentina Shevchenko 35:58 Because it's like, it's, uh, sambo it was combination of judo and what they created in Russia.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 36:05 And the sports like gymnastics, uh, like, um, athleticism, the running, right?

Joe Rogan 36:10 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 36:10 Like, um, um, uh, summer, summer Olympic games we ca- we can say. So, yeah, this is, uh, but the cult of sport, it's very, was very strong.

Joe Rogan 36:20 When did combat sambo start to make its emergence? Because combat sambo took, uh, essentially a lot of the techniques of mixed martial arts, but wore the gi top. Like, what, when did that start?

Valentina Shevchenko 36:34 Um, you know, I cannot tell exactly, but you know, uh, that sport, uh, sport sambo and combat sambo, it's, uh, definitely, uh, m- mo- every time more it was about the sport sambo. It's just wrestle.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 36:49 Yeah, it's every time it was, like, more, uh, something that more children would do and more, like, influence, but with, um, uh, I would say when it's, um...... all martial arts like taekwondo, karate, is, uh, it was, like, m- uh, it started to be more popular. Then definitely it was more, uh, uh, time for the, uh, fighting styles, for the, um, uh, martial arts like combat sports. It was, like, just insane. It, it just was everywhere.

Joe Rogan 37:18 So it wasn't until the collapse of the Soviet Union that things like karate and taekwondo and all these other martial arts became popular.

Valentina Shevchenko 37:25 Yes, and free. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:26 And free. And then they started integrating that with combat sambo and, uh, and becoming mixed martial arts-

Valentina Shevchenko 37:34 Um.

Joe Rogan 37:34 ... in Russia.

Valentina Shevchenko 37:34 You know, um, I would say that combat, uh, combat sambo it was, uh, even, uh, since the beginning because, uh, uh, it's part like, uh, if I'm not mistaken, it was kind of like what, uh, military-

Joe Rogan 37:46 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 37:46 ... was training.

Joe Rogan 37:47 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 37:47 So yeah. Uh, but, uh, if we're speaking about, like, competition, about what, uh, people compete in right now, yeah, it's different.

Joe Rogan 37:56 So you start out with taekwondo and then you make your way to Muay Thai and when you are a teenager you, you start deciding that this is going to be your life. Did you have any other dreams or interests or hobbies or passions or was it just martial arts?

Valentina Shevchenko 38:13 You know, my life it was, uh, so much, uh, different things to do and I, I, I mean, just to learn different things. That I, that's be- that's why I never had this like, "Oh, I want to do that, that." And I never, uh, had this like, "I have to choose one. I have to choose or I am martial artist or I am," like I don't know, something else.

Joe Rogan 38:37 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 38:37 I didn't have, uh... And I'm lucky that I didn't have this, um, like, uh, that I have to choose because, um, for example, um, uh, um, in my opinion, a person can be complete in everything. It doesn't matter, uh, like, um... He can be martial artist but the same way good artist, like paint or, like, play some instrument, musical instrument or singer or, um, good shooter or some different profession because, uh, if we're thinking about for example, we have life, right? And to become a professional in something we are studying. For example, it take five years to be a professional in certain things, right? If you're-

Joe Rogan 39:30 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 39:30 ... speaking about university or something like that. So why we don't stay, uh, spend another, like, two, three years to, um, learn something else? Another years to learn more and, uh, it's gonna fulfill you as a person to add more knowledge into you. That's why, uh, for me it's never was like, "Okay, you are just martial artist." My mom she, um, uh, when I started do martial arts she said like, "Okay, uh, you also gonna do dance." So it was like same things that I did since childhood. I was dancing and doing martial artist because it's kind of like balancing each other. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:11 Mm-hmm. Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 40:12 It's like, it's not... You are not going to one side too much and other side. You're going to be in between, keeps a perfect balance. And for example then, um, when I discover the, um, uh, shooting competition it was, uh, another things that I wanted to learn more to be there, like, better every day to just do what I like and same with the languages. I never start, uh, st- uh, I never, uh, end. I don't want to stop to learn. I want to learn every day something new. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:46 It's interesting that that, that concept of balance, uh, was written about in the 1400s by Miyamoto Musashi. When he talked about being a great swordsman, he talked about balance, that you had to learn poetry and you had to learn calligraphy and art and he was, he was a big believer that you didn't just concentrate on sword fighting, you concentrated on all these things and that they work synergistically, they work together.

Valentina Shevchenko 41:16 And, uh, this is true because, um, um, you're a good martial artist, yes. But you want to get... be a good person as well, right?

Joe Rogan 41:26 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 41:27 And more, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's just you are, like, a better person and I think it's, uh, very important. Uh, your education it's means a lot and you have to put, um, all money (laughs) in your education. And not only just, um, like, do whatever you like. What, for example, when you were, uh, growing up for example, any- anyone, uh, had some dreams or some things that was, like, huge inspiration for them and then for the, like, time pass and you're thinking, "Okay, now it's too late to start to learn something," and it's kind of like you're just wasting time. But actually it's never late. It's never late to learn something you w- uh, you were, like, wanted to do all your life. It just, uh, you just have to start, to make your fi- first step and this is the hardest, I think, the first step. But once you do it and when you understand that, uh, this is the, uh, how it should works, how it should be, everything gonna be, like, fine and you gonna just love it and, uh, just continue to learn, continue to grow, continue to, uh, make yourself, uh, a better person. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:42 It's so smart that your mother enrolled you also in dance and got you to learn dance as well as martial arts because the two, the skill sets are so interchangeable. Like, you see it like, uh, Vasyl Loma- Lomachenko, perfect example. He learned dance for years and he has this incredible footwork that you see has...... given him a huge advantage in boxing. And with you, when you fight, one thing that I've always noticed is you never are flat-footed.

Valentina Shevchenko 43:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:12 You're always moving, you're always ... You're, you're never a stationary target. You never get lazy. You're always ... Your back heel is always off the ground. And that is not the case with everyone. The people that don't have, like, the kind of leg dexterity that you have, or the kind of, uh, ability to move your, your footwork, they, they ... Maybe that's a big advantage, I think.

Valentina Shevchenko 43:38 I agree and not agree. It's like, um, yes and no, because if you wanna be, um, good one at something, you have to work, you have to spend more time to work on this thing.

Joe Rogan 43:53 On that thing.

Valentina Shevchenko 43:54 D- definitely. Dances, uh, they gonna help probably with your balance. Uh, they gonna help with something, but, um, it's not something that would help you to win the fight. (laughs) Definitely no.

Joe Rogan 44:08 Do you think it helps footwork though?

Valentina Shevchenko 44:10 Um, I would say it help with more, like, at first beginning balance, because in dancing, we have a lot of spins, right?

Joe Rogan 44:20 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 44:20 And, um ... Yeah, d- different dance have different (laughs) level, like, different movements. But I'm speaking about, like, folk dance, what I was doing, like folk dance or, like, R- Russian dance. It's kind of, like, h- part of ballet, h- part of, like, traditional, like s- um, uh, traditional dance of different countries, and, uh, a lot of, um, spins. And definitely, it's, uh, kind of, like, help you to do, like, round kicks-

Joe Rogan 44:47 Hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 44:48 ... or something like that. But, um, I would say if the lead man, your coach have very right of approach of how to teach the students, it's not necessary to do dancing. He can just ... Or she can, uh, just teach their students on how to do the footwork, what is the better way to move or something like that. The other thing, not every coach naturally like teacher, because it also take, uh, a lot of knowledge. Uh, coach has to have this, like, vision of technique, and not only vision of how to teach exactly this technique for every student. No. Also, uh, it's like he has, for example, five different student, five different, like, biometrics, uh, fight style, like, different type of muscles, different, just different. And he has one technique, one, two, like, two straight, like, two hooks, whatever, but everyone would hit it differently. And if the coach see, um, and combine specific of each fighter with their, like, right angle, how to turn the fist or something like that, and can see this detail and say, "Okay, this is your thing. Do it right there. L- uh, this is will work for you." Maybe it's not the classical o- one. Maybe it's not the right what everyone think, like, this is the right way for this, uh, for this punch. Maybe it's, like, just a little bit angled, just something like that. But it's work for the student, and the student is winning with this technique. So, this is the, uh, what, uh, coach has to have, this type of the vision. But what I see, many coaches say, uh, knows their technique and they don't see the specification of each fighter, the, the, like, biotype of the fighter and they try to just break the nature gift what the fighter have and put this technique just, uh, like, what they are thinking is gonna be right. And this is what I want to say is this is wrong because it's kind of, like, um, it's not helping fighter to win and, uh, to get the right, um, um, technique for themself what it will work for them. It's just like, uh, what coach, like, just he is not naturally teacher. This is what I s- I, I mean the most important. It's not about dance. It's not about fighting. It's about right coach what you have.

Joe Rogan 47:31 So, it's about recognizing that each person is different and not trying to impose one style on all the fighters.

Valentina Shevchenko 47:39 Exactly. Exactly, because, uh, even one style can be different. Even, uh, like, it's the same, but a little bit different.

Joe Rogan 47:48 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 47:48 Just small details. And, uh, coach has to see it. He, he has to understand.

Joe Rogan 47:56 And that's really where the art in martial arts comes from, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 48:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:00 It's this expression of the individual that comes out while competing-

Valentina Shevchenko 48:04 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 48:04 ... and while training.

Valentina Shevchenko 48:05 Exactly. Yes. I totally agree.

Joe Rogan 48:07 And it is an art. And to us, like, to people who practice martial arts, like, when I watch you fight, it's beautiful. It is an art, you know, even the most brutal parts of it. Like, when you knocked out Jessica Eye, like, it's beautiful. Like, the way you set up the kick to the body and then switched up to the head, that's ... For someone who appreciates what that is, like how you did that, it's beautiful.

Valentina Shevchenko 48:30 This is, this is, like ... I think that's why it's called martial arts. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah. But for people, it's interesting because people that don't practice martial arts, they don't like that term. I've, I've heard that described. I've h- I've heard people talk disparagingly about martial arts saying, "That is not art. It's just brutality. It's just violence." And although brutality and violence is a part of the art, it is art.

Valentina Shevchenko 48:58 Because it's fighting art.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 48:59 Definitely.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 49:01 Uh, uh, you cannot just go there and say, like, to your opponent, "Okay, let's agree. I do the technique and you will do the technique, and then I win."

Joe Rogan 49:08 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 49:08 So, you cannot just ... It's, uh, all about the fight.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Yeah. It's about expressing yourself-... while the other person is trying to express themselves, and you both have similar-sized bodies, at least they weigh the same-

Valentina Shevchenko 49:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:23 ... and you're trying to figure out how to impose your skill set, and your training, and your technique, and your mind.

Valentina Shevchenko 49:28 Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 49:29 And, and, and that, I think, is one of the more interesting things about you, is this approach that you've taken to life, to educate yourself, to immerse yourself in different cultures and to achieve balance, clearly, that is having some sort of effect for you as a champion. Like, you're a different kind of person because of all these experiences, and I think that speaks volumes on who you are as a champion. I think it's one of the reasons why you're such an interesting person to watch fight.

Valentina Shevchenko 50:01 (laughs) Um, y- thank you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:05 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 50:05 I think, yes, it's kind of, like, experience what I have through the years, what I practice in martial arts, it's, um, mm, teach me how to I have... How I have to react for the certain situation in the life, right? And, um, I see, for example, many, um, young people, they are, um, for example, having some success and they are starting to believe in themselves too much.

Joe Rogan 50:38 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 50:39 No, belief is, uh, wrong word. It's like thinking about themselves too much.

Joe Rogan 50:44 Oh.

Valentina Shevchenko 50:44 And thinking about themselves, they're, like, untouchable or like-

Joe Rogan 50:49 Ego.

Valentina Shevchenko 50:49 Yes, and, um, it's definitely will affect their trainings. But, uh, what I learned through the years, in the training, you have to be the most simple person as you can be because, um, um, it's a fight. It's a real fight. It's not a fight and saying what you can, like, uh, do beautifully and repeat or something like that. It's real, exactly, and, uh, if you, uh, have the wrong approach to what you have to, like, represent in the fight, you never will be the, um, like, winner. And definitely, it's, um, experience what I got and, um, through the years, it just show me that, um, while I'm fighting, I don't have time to think about, like, myself too much, like, or then, like, work like that.

Joe Rogan 51:48 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 51:48 You cannot. You just cannot because, uh, it's gonna last before your fight. And in the fight, you're gonna see, no, it's not working. (laughs) You have to come back. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:59 So clearly, you have confidence, but you also think that it's important to have humility.

Valentina Shevchenko 52:06 Definitely, and important to understand you have to do everything to win the fight, because if you have... You start to have, like, uh, to have mercy on something like that, in the fight, it doesn't work. Or you winner, or you're gonna be a loser. So decide who you wanna be, winner or loser. Yeah. Just decide. It's easy. Simple. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:30 It's simple. (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 52:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:32 If it was only that simple.

Valentina Shevchenko 52:33 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:34 Do you have, uh, an idea of when you're going to stop competing?

Valentina Shevchenko 52:39 Uh, no, no. I don't have any idea because I like the way, uh, the, uh, the lifestyle what I have right now. I feel myself so strong, so healthy, so good. That's why I want to experience that feeling as long as I can. I want to see what my body is capable of. I want to see my limits. I want to see, uh, where I can go. Because if you're, like, um, put in this, uh, certain day, certain year-

Joe Rogan 53:08 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 53:09 ... till what time you gonna compete, it's kind of like, um... My opinion, it's not good because you starting go to your end-

Joe Rogan 53:19 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 53:19 ... slowly but surely. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:21 Yeah. It messes with your head.

Valentina Shevchenko 53:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:23 You think about it.

Valentina Shevchenko 53:24 I think so. And if you are just, um, enjoy the time what you are and, and just experience and want to, uh, just do the best things what you can without like, okay, this is my limit. And you just do it the best way you can, and this is the only way to explore what you're capable of.

Joe Rogan 53:45 So right now, you're 33?

Valentina Shevchenko 53:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:47 And so this is the prime of your athletic life?

Valentina Shevchenko 53:50 I hope it still come. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:51 It still comes.

Valentina Shevchenko 53:52 It still coming. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:52 Like, this is, but it's-

Valentina Shevchenko 53:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:54 It's- I'm sure there's years to go, but this is, like, athletically, they, they say early 30s for a fighter is their prime because that's when their mind catches up with their body. Like...

Valentina Shevchenko 54:06 I would add a little bit more about the, um... We don't know because, uh, if a, if compare, like, what it was, um, five, 10 years ago, what, uh, how people were, like, at age 30 years old, for example, 10 years ago, they would feel themselves as like, okay, so like, it's a lot. They are already, like, family persons and they are, like, not thinking about competing or do something. Now, we have a different scale. Now, people, like, at age 30, they feel younger than it was before. That's why I don't know how, like, if we can say this is a prime. Maybe not. Maybe prime, it's now 40 years old.

Joe Rogan 54:52 Ah.

Valentina Shevchenko 54:52 Who knows? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:53 Well, I think it's you love competition so much-

Valentina Shevchenko 54:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:55 ... you wanna drag it out.

Valentina Shevchenko 54:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:57 You wanna stretch it out.

Valentina Shevchenko 54:58 Probably.

Joe Rogan 54:59 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 54:59 I love it a lot, but it's so hard. It's so hard-

Joe Rogan 55:02 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 55:03 ... to have training camp and it's, uh, it's more than just physically. It's mentally, and combination when it's physically and mentally, this is what is really hard because I, um, notice that, um...... mentally, what, uh, what I mean, uh, like, mentally, not just your preparation, but, uh, when you have to every day train with your training partner or different training partners and you know it's going to be like mini-battle. And you know that you have to, uh, uh, push yourself to the, uh, like, doing better thing. It's not just, like, just, uh, running or just any physical exercises to do without too much mental, like, things to push, so it's easier. But in mixed martial arts, in martial arts, it's combination, physically and mentally what it's, uh, making that hard. That's why it's kind of, like, so hard during the training camp, but it worst, it worst when you feel your hands raise up and, like, uh, everything good, um, even if some- something happen, sometimes if something happen not the way you want, even that one, it give you so much energy to continue. That's why f- uh, that's why my opinion, martial arts, it's the best thing what ev- anyone can have.

Joe Rogan 56:23 So, meaning when things don't go your way, then it gives you motivation to train harder and get better?

Valentina Shevchenko 56:30 Uh, motivation and also, like, uh, the energy of the event-

Joe Rogan 56:35 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 56:35 ... of the fight or s- for example, um, it put your, uh, level of martial art, like, on the next level. It's, uh, teach you. It's like sometimes you teach one technique for years, and sometimes you just have to fight-

Joe Rogan 56:51 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 56:51 ... in the real fight-

Joe Rogan 56:52 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 56:52 ... and you will understand the technique so fast. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:55 Yeah. Um, when you're talking about your body and your mind, um, and the, the difficulty, uh, you're, you're now training at the UFC Performance Institute, which is, uh, an amazing facility in Las Vegas, which for sure helps the body, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 57:11 Oh, definitely.

Joe Rogan 57:12 Because you have access to state-of-the-art equipment, state-of-the-art coaches and nutritionists, and it's an amazing place. Do you work on your mind in, in sense of do you, uh, study psychology? Do you meditate? Nothing?

Valentina Shevchenko 57:29 No. No.

Joe Rogan 57:29 No.

Valentina Shevchenko 57:30 Um, I have very different, very unusual approach towards my trainings. Um, for example, physically, I don't like to train with, uh, weights. I don't like to train with, um, some, like, um, very popular equip- equipment what's, like, modern fighters work in. I prefer, like, focus myself on the training in the gym. For the mental, I work on my mental game during the training as well. Um, for example, I give (laughs) this example. Uh, my coach, he set in time, 5-0, he set in time how many minutes one round is going to be, how long the training going to be. So, uh, coming into the gym, we don't have, like, from 10:00 to 11:00, this is our training, from 10:00 to 12:00, this is a limit for our training. No, we have, like, um, three, four hours, the window, and it's decision of Pavel when the training gonna stop. So, and it can go all three hours, (laughs) sometimes all four hours. It's all up to him. And this is like, uh, for example, this is the mental preparation, the mental game that, uh, you are dying in the training physically, but your mind is saying, "Continue." Your coach ins- is saying, "Continue," and you are pushing yourself to continue. This is the best mental preparation what you ha- uh, yeah, you can have for the fight.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 59:01 When your body already says, "I cannot," but your mind say, "Yes, you can." It's kind of like opening the second respiration, second respiration? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:10 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 59:11 Yeah, something like that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:13 So, through this difficult training and forcing yourself to stay focused in the gym, that's where your mental training comes from?

Valentina Shevchenko 59:20 Uh, yes, because, um, as I said earlier, to, uh, be the best version of yourself in anything, in something, in martial arts for example, you have to do everything what's considering this martial arts. You cannot do, uh, like, psychology, psychology-

Joe Rogan 59:41 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 59:41 ... apart, because if you go to, um... As a person who doesn't know what is that fighter psychology or never was in the fight, it doesn't know how it feels in the fight, they will give you wrong, uh, advices.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 59:59 They will teach you wrong things. No, so it's, uh, uh, it's completely you don't want to happen. It's something that, um, gonna mess, it's gonna, like, choke to each other-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:12 ... strike each other, and be so- completely, like, not-

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Incompatible.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:16 Exactly. So, this is you never want to happen.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Did you get advice from other fighters? Did you, did you, like, train with other champions and get advice from them at all?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:26 I trained with other champions, but, um, I don't need advices. The only person who I take advices, uh, this is my coach, my sister, and my mom, only three person-

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:40 ... what I consider that they are, have rights (laughs) to give me advices.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Well, obviously, it's working.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:47 This is the most important. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 Yeah, the, the most important thing is that it's working.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:50 But, but it doesn't matter I won't listen their something, like, what people have, uh, uh, rights-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:00:57 ... saying right or something like exactly that I consider would work for me. It doesn't mean that I will close the eyes and I won't listen you. Uh, no.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:01:07 I won't do that, definitely. I will take it. But I mean, to go to someone and, like, "Oh, okay. Share your experience. Share your, like..." No. No. It's not... Y- even, like, you will listen it for 1,000 times, if you are not experienced yet, you never will feel it, it never will, it's never will work for you. So, uh...... backwards when I feel a person trying to give too much advices when no one asks them to give that advices. I feel like, "Okay, maybe I have to get away from that person." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Yes. Yeah, that's a weird one, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:01:47 This is-

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 When someone is... It's usually someone who's not that good.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:01:51 Oh, no. They can be good.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Yeah?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:01:53 They can be good, uh, like, uh, physically, like, technically.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:01:58 But they maybe not that good with their-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Mentally.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:01 ... mind. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Yeah. Maybe, right? And maybe they're trying to convince themselves-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:06 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 ... by teach, by talking to you and giving you advice. It's interesting you say you, you don't like to use modern training equipment. Do you mean like weight lifting, like w- uh, like cardio machines? Like, what do you mean?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:19 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 Yeah?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:20 Weight lifting, cardio machine, I don't like them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 You don't like them? No?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:24 No, no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 But you look like you do.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:27 I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 It's interesting. Like, you look very fit and strong, and someone would assume if they saw you when you're fighting, "Oh, she must do a lot of strength and conditioning work."

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:37 No, I don't. No.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Wow.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:39 I don't like to run eith- like, uh, I hate-

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Really?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:42 ... run. And I don't like to hit pads also.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 You don't hit pads?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:45 This is my... I hit pads, but I don't like do that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 Really?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:02:49 I know some people, it's like favorite thing, because they don't have to fight or something like that, like this, have this mental pressure. But I rather do, uh, five rounds of fight, like, um, sparrings-

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:03 ... than do, like, five rounds on pads. No, I just don't like it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 What about working with power, with techniques? Do you like to hit the bag?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:12 Oh, yes. Yes. I do everything, bags, pads, but, uh, I just don't like it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 You don't like it. Do you, do you like any more than the other? Do you like bag more than pads?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:24 Um, for bag, it's, it's, it can be sometimes a little bit more lazy. You can relax, you can explode-

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:32 ... you can, like, do, like, manage your timing.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:35 For the pads, uh, especially when Pavel hold pads, it's just intensive, all five rounds nonstop. And it's like, uh, this is what I, uh, uh... For in the fight, I can, um, like in the sparring, I can find timing when I rest, when I explode, yeah? In... When I hit on pads and Pavel holds on pads, there is no time for rest. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:03:57 Just go, go, go.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 You can't control it.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:00 But, but definitely what, um, I'm working on, it's like a lot of, um, uh, work with partner. When you wrestle, it's your weight lifting. It's the same-

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:10 ... but with someone who moves.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:12 Yeah. Has someone who responds, has someone who make your, like, uh, do your protection. So, it's for me, it's, um... This is my, uh, like, uh, training style, what I do day by day. And this is where I get my strength, where I get my power and, um, my speed.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 How many times a day do you train?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:34 Uh, one time a day now. Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 That's unusual, right, for professional fighters?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:40 For me, no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 But not for you. (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:04:43 I would say, um, if, um, a person still learning and still, like, uh, like, s- many things to work on, they have... Or teenagers or, like, childrens, they have to w- work, like, twice a day or, like, uh, like, some... Three times too much. No, twice a day is, is, that's fine. Or, uh, they have to work more. I was working more, so I was training more when I was, like, uh, early ages.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:05:12 Now, it's enough one time a day. It's more than enough. And, you know, uh, people sometimes do, um, for example, one hour in the morning, then sparrings in afternoon. And it's kind of, like, they tired here, they tired h- there and they, they cannot do one hard session and show, like, everything put in the sparrings and have this full energy. They just, like, do... It's not here and not there. It's somewhere in, in between. And you don't know, like, "Do I have to do that or that?" And sometimes, it's, uh, you just, like, feel so tired when the time is fight and you're, like, on the, in s- your changing room in the fighting room. Before you fight, you're thinking, "Oh, I wish it's gonna finish soon, because I'm so tired."

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:05:56 This is something I don't want to happen. I want to feel so much energy for my fight, because it's good if you are training good. But the most important part, to win the fight, right?

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:06:10 It's, um... Some, s- uh, some people, they confuse. They think that, uh, they have to train, like, like, so hard and, like, to prove something like that. But for the time in the fight, they don't have energy. They're like a balloon. Pshh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:06:24 They go down. And, um, so this is very thin line, where you have to know what is good for your body-

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 (coughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:06:32 ... and where you have to know, uh, how to manage your training system.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 And is this something that you've just figured out about yourself over the years?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:06:41 Mm. I think this is the, um-

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 (coughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:06:46 ... uh, what, like, my team is training right now, how we prepare for the fight. Yes, it works for me. It works for me because I, we do very hard session. This one, but very hard one. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 Just one. But that is unusual. If you pay attention to other MMA fighters, they usually break it up to two things a day.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Usually, they're doing a strength and conditioning workout or maybe they're doing pads in the morning, and then they're doing some sort of sparring, maybe wrestling and jiu-jitsu in the afternoon, and then maybe they'll do MMA sparring in the evening.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 So, sometimes you have these three sessions.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 But you prepare differently.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:24 Yes. And, um, I don't like to do, like, separate. For example, now it's Muay Thai time-... now it's wrestling time, now it's grappling time. I don't like it because we are fighting mixed martial arts.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:39 It has to be everything in one. That's why in my training, we do everything at once.

Joe Rogan 1:07:44 So, you never just do only Jiu-Jitsu?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:48 Uh, if you are speaking about training camp, no.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Oh.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:52 If you are speaking about, like, um-

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 In between fights?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:07:54 ... after the fight, in between, definitely. I don't want to spar every day. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 So, like, right now-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Right now, you just beat Lauren Murphy. You're- you're off for a while. You don't ... Do you have, uh, an idea of when you'll be competing again?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:08 I don't have it yet. I didn't ask UFC yet about my next fight. And, um, yeah, I just take my time.

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Yeah. So, right now, you maybe would do a Jiu-Jitsu class or train something differently just to try it out?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:22 Yeah, yeah. I could, um ... I train every day, not every day. Now, I train like, um, one day, one rest, one day, one rest. But just to maintain, maintain physical, uh, and maintain mood, the most important.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 Mood?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:39 Mood. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 So, you need some training just to stay calm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:43 Uh, to stay ... and, uh, to stay happy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Happy, yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:47 Not calm, happy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:08:48 Because, um, I feel that I don't know how people f- feel with no trainings. Like, they just don't train. They just don't sweat, and it feels so weird for me.

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:09:02 I feel that, uh, the sweat, it's like, um, it's favorite, uh, favorite phrase of my sisters, like, when you take shower, like, you feel clean, right? But when you sweat in the training, you feel clean from inside.

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:09:16 So, this is for me that I have to do constantly. And I just feel if I'm not training, my mood is like, uh, starting to be crazy. And it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:09:25 ... you- you never know what to expect. Now she's laughing, that's why she's angry. Now, this is like, "No, I have to train." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 That's the case with everybody, I think. I really do. I just think most people just choose to live this way where they don't have a real good grasp on their body and- and a good control over it because of exercise.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:09:44 Yes, yes, I think so. It's, uh, definitely, it, um ... Even training in martial arts, you don't have to fight. You don't have to be professional fighter. Just do it for yourself and, like, everyone will feel the difference.

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:09:58 They're going to be happier people. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:01 So, when you structure, uh, your training camp, does Pavel structure it all? Like, say, if you have a fight and it gets scheduled, you have, uh, 12 weeks or whatever-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:10 ... you use for preparation. Who, uh ... Does Pavel schedule everything?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10:14 Yes, yes.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 He schedules everything. So, you just show up, put in your time, and that's it?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10:19 Uh, yes and no. (laughs) We are participating in everything.

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10:23 Like, so it's not something that ... Um, I like to know everything. I like, like, this is ... I like to understand how everything work. And I'm not only speaking about training and the training camp. I'm speaking about everything. It doesn't matter what we do, I want to understand what we gonna do-

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:10:40 ... what is, like, things we- we will work. So, it's kind of like work, uh, teamwork. And definitely, we are, uh, speaking about what to expect from the training camp, uh, where we gonna have training camp because it doesn't mean, uh, we are training, uh, like, at the same location all the time. We love to travel, to have training camps in different gyms, in different states, in different countries. So, we plan it in advance. We's thinking about, like, considering, for example, my fight going to be in, um, this type of the climate. So, where it's going to be better to train. And we just plan it in the- like, all together. This is, uh, I think, the best when everyone knowing what's happening.

Joe Rogan 1:11:25 And you've moved around in this country as well, right? You've trained ... You trained in Denver for a bit?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:11:31 Uh, for the fight with Juliana Pena, yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:35 Mm-hmm. So, um, is that when you started training with Rose? 'Cause you and Rose have done- Rose Namajunas-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:11:41 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 ... have done some training together too.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:11:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:42 Was that beneficial for you?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:11:44 I think it's beneficial for everyone. For example, um, when, uh, high level athletes training each other, it's kind of like good for both.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:11:56 It's ... Everyone can take something for themselves. And it's something that, um ... good experience. And we build our, like, good relationship, friend relationships. And it- it's amazing to have friends who are doing, like, the same thing what you are doing and sharing the same ideas what you are having. For this training camp, for example, in my, uh, training camp was Brendan Moreno. And it's like, he's, uh, amazing guy, very strong guy, very, like, uh, strong technique. And it was amazing to train with him as well. So, I think, uh, it's like, um, every time, no matter who I train with, I learn something new from them.

Joe Rogan 1:12:39 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:12:39 No matter what level they are, I able to learn something from them.

Joe Rogan 1:12:45 Do you take trips specifically, like, if like, say, if you're going to face someone who's a- a great Judo expert, do you train specifically, like, do- would you go to a place and train with, like, a Kayla Harrison or something like that, or someone who was specifically, uh, a Judo stylist?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:03 First of all, uh, we considering to have a similar weight class.

Joe Rogan 1:13:08 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:08 This is the number one rule because, uh, for example, if someone is ... I'm not just speaking about Kayla right now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:15 I'm speaking like in general.

Joe Rogan 1:13:17 She's big. (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:17 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:18 I'm speaking about general.

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:20 Sometimes, it's like, uh, it's not beneficial.

Joe Rogan 1:13:23 (clears throat)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:23 Even the, uh, like, uh, person, they are, like, skillful, super controlled and do, like, so good their things. It's, um ... They just don't do it in their heart full power-

Joe Rogan 1:13:37 Uh-huh.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:37 ... because they are just bigger.

Joe Rogan 1:13:39 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:39 And they're just stronger. It's, uh, not good for you because you have to feel this, like, uh, moment when you're kind of like breaking them or they kind of like have this thing when they are like in their technique. You have to feel the moment.

Joe Rogan 1:13:55 You have to be able to go hard.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:58 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:13:58 And this is, like, the number one rule. So I like to train, and I'm train with a, uh, training partner similar my weight class.

Joe Rogan 1:14:08 When you have competed at 135 pounds, was that an issue? Like, when, when you went up to 135, well, y- your first fights in the UFC, there was no 125-pound division.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:19 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 So, like, when you fought Holly Holm, when you fought Amanda Nunes, these fights are all at 135 pounds.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:25 Did you feel, when you were in that division, th- that you were just a little undersized?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:32 Oh, yes, (laughs) definitely-

Joe Rogan 1:14:33 Yeah?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:33 ... I was a smaller one (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 1:14:34 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:35 And for 135, I never, like, uh, was worried about cutting weight. I-

Joe Rogan 1:14:40 What did you weigh at, when, when you weighed 135? Did you walk around at, like, 135?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:14:43 Walk around, uh, this is my walk weight right now, like, 135. This is I walk in. If I start, uh, stop to train for, like, one week and eat every day, 138 maybe maximum (laughs) . But with trainings, like, one-four- 135, 136, so yeah. And, uh, definitely it's, uh ... I didn't experience any problem fighting 135, but definitely I would s- have to think more about strategy for the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:15:12 Mm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:15:13 Being smaller, you cannot, uh, you have to think about different tactic, how to approach two different fighter, because sometimes you will have enough power to break them, sometimes no. So it's kind of like yes or no maybe, and you have to have your backup plan, and you have to have your, like, uh, body, uh, ready for different game plan. That's why it's, uh, uh, I didn't have problem to fight in 135, but, uh, I every time was to think about, uh, something extra things.

Joe Rogan 1:15:48 Do you foresee a possibility of you competing at 135 pounds again? 'Cause Amanda Nunes is kind of running out of opposition, and you're kind of running out of opposition, and you both had epic fights against each other. Do you think that that's possible?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:05 Uh, there is only one possibility, why I move up to 135, and this is it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 Yeah. Do you think that could be the case someday?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:14 I think so. Why not? It's gonna, ev- if everything gonna s- continue, like, that way-

Joe Rogan 1:16:20 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:20 ... it's just gonna be inevitable.

Joe Rogan 1:16:22 D- uh, is there anyone in your division right now, in 125, where you look at them and you say, "I wanna, uh, I wanna fight her"?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:31 It's just not my style. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:33 Hmm. You just wait till-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:34 Just looks like, okay. It's not my style, uh, I would say, to pick opponent for you.

Joe Rogan 1:16:39 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:40 Uh, because all the time I was, when I was fighting Muay Thai, MMA, I was like, "Valentina, would you fight her? Yes. Valentina, would you fight her? Yes. Her? Yes." So it was, like, the way I am. It is the way I am. I'm not choosing my opponents.

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:16:57 I'm not looking for some, like, easy fights. I want to fight with the, the best ones. That's why, um, uh, I just not picking one. I just wait when UFC gonna, like, "Okay, this is your opponent." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:09 Well, it's, it is an unusual situation though. Like I said, you are in this position that's very similar to, like, many of the great fighters that are dominant champions, where you don't have one person who stands out.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:17:24 I think that, uh, there is a lot of girls. There a lo- like, in 125, it's, uh, the most comfortable weight class for females, like, one-two- 125, it's not too big, not too small.

Joe Rogan 1:17:38 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:17:39 And a lot of girls, they are, like, in this weight class. And, like, from the straw weights, they going up. From the bantam weights, they going down. So, uh, it's just, like, uh, very strong girls over there. But, uh, as I said, um, like, it's wrong to compare, uh, like, when they fight me, and you have to watch them fighting, like, to see their levels.

Joe Rogan 1:18:03 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:18:03 Because my goal is to fight differently. It's like I say, when you can finish them, but they cannot touch you.

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:18:11 So it's every time was the same. Muay Thai was the same. You, for example, I was, um, watching them fight s- to each other before I fight them, and I was like, like, "Wow, yeah." But then it's completely different. So i- it's kind of like ... In 125, I think there is, like, whole rosters, they are very good. They are very strong. And you could see the last f- like, the last event when it was all bonuses-

Joe Rogan 1:18:34 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:18:35 ... for the female fighters. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:37 Yeah. No, there's obviously some great, great talent in the female division of the UFC. Um, was Amanda Nunes your, your most difficult fight?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:18:47 Uh, I never was considered, like, um, difficulty of the fight, only for the fight (laughs) , for this-

Joe Rogan 1:18:58 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:18:58 ... five rounds or less. Uh, for me, difficulty of the fight, it's combination of training camp, your approach to the fight, fight week, and the fight itself. So, uh, I still cannot, like, um, answer this question. I think it's the hardest question. And, uh, every time people ask me, like, "What is your hardest fight, hardest opponent?" and I just cannot answer-

Joe Rogan 1:19:27 Hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:27 ... because it's so different. Each fight, it's different approach, different training camp. Every one is difficult. Difficult with their, like, own style-

Joe Rogan 1:19:39 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:39 ... something like that. Uh, that's why hard to say, hard.

Joe Rogan 1:19:44 What is difficult about Amanda's style?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:47 (laughs) Her sizes.

Joe Rogan 1:19:48 Size?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:49 It's not her style.

Joe Rogan 1:19:50 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:50 It's not her style. It's just she's big and heavy.

Joe Rogan 1:19:54 Yeah, and power.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:19:56 Uh, everyone has power.... everyone has power. One, if you are speaking about 135 weight class, every- e- everyone has, like, a lot of power. But, uh, A-A-Manda, I think she's just, like, bigger than anyone. Bigger.

Joe Rogan 1:20:10 You think she's bigger than the rest of the division?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:20:13 What's her walk weight? Uh, w- what is her walking weight? 160? 170? I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20:18 Is it really that big?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:20:19 I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20:20 Well, she does fight at 145 and she looks the same at 145 as she does at 135. And obviously, at 145, she's able to knock out Cyborg.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:20:29 Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, what's about the knockouts, um, everyone has, like, chances to knock out each other, so it's just like... It's, it's 50/50. It's the situation. If, for example, you have interchange, the chances are more for each one, right? But you have to smart, to have... You have to fight very smart. You know that, uh, small gloves, it's, like, more possibility to be knocked out-

Joe Rogan 1:20:59 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:21:00 ... or you make the knock- knockout. So if, um... It's kind of like or you, or you gonna hit or they gonna hit you. So it's kind of like this is what I saw in their fights. So it was interchange, and this interchange who's on that moment were more lucky.

Joe Rogan 1:21:17 If you had a long timeout, like if the UFC said, "Uh, here we are. It's, uh... We- we are in, uh, October." If they said, "Uh, Valentina, August next year, we would like you to fight Amanda Nunes. That's gonna be this big super fight." Would you try to gain weight? Would you lift weights? Would you do anything differently? Or would you just concentrate on technique and strategy and maintain the same weight you're at now?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:21:46 We are in October and August.

Joe Rogan 1:21:49 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:21:49 Do you know anything? They gonna approach me with this? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:21:51 I- I'm gonna try. (laughs) Well, I think if... When I look at the two of you, it's the most compelling fight in, in the UFC in, in women's MMA, I believe. That's the most compelling fight is 'cause you're both at the top of your game and you've... There's an argument for both of you to be the greatest of all time.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:08 I'm not gonna, um, do anything special to lift up my weight.

Joe Rogan 1:22:13 You wouldn't-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:14 No.

Joe Rogan 1:22:14 ... start working out?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:15 No.

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 And lift weights?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:15 No. No. No. No. Because, um, I don't believe it's gonna help. I believe it's gonna be worse for the fighter because if, in your whole life, you was, like, um, certain body type, you know how to carry, like, certain muscles, amount of muscles.

Joe Rogan 1:22:35 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:36 And z- then suddenly, for last two, three months, you start to carry way more. So what's gonna happen? You're gonna be slower. You're not gonna have same, uh, resistance for the whole fight because you have to carry more- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22:51 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:51 ... weight on top of you. So I will do the same. I just want to do the last, like, last day weight cut for... What I do-

Joe Rogan 1:22:59 (laughs) Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:22:59 ... for 125. I gonna lose... Uh, I'm not gonna lose this six p- uh, pound what is, like, um, what I do-

Joe Rogan 1:23:06 That's what you do for-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:08 ... 130, 125.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:08 And I just will eat normally as I do.

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:12 And train the same ways as I do.

Joe Rogan 1:23:15 It's interesting to see different people's approaches, right? Like, uh, when Israel Adesanya went up to challenge Jan Błachowicz for the 205 pound title, he did the same thing that you're saying.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:26 He didn't gain any weight. He just-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:28 ... uh, just concentrated on his tech- technique and training. But there was moments in that fight where the size of Jan Błachowicz was, uh, it was evident when... In the-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:38 ... grappling exchanges when he was able to control him on the ground. Do you think that there's any benefit? I mean, this is why I'm saying if you have a long time. I'm not saying if you just have a, a normal eight-week camp. I'm saying if they give you eight months, nine months, and they let you know in advance, you still don't think you'd ever try to gain any weight?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:57 I don't think it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:23:58 No?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:23:58 ... it's still gonna help because, uh, someone naturally bigger, every time, will have this advantage-

Joe Rogan 1:24:06 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:24:06 ... being bigger. No matter how more weight you're gonna put on top, you are still the same. Just with extra weight on you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:24:14 Yeah. Well, that's why I'm interested in Jon Jones. And Jon Jones, when he's trying to move up to the heavyweight division, he's gained a lot of weight. And he wants to be over the 265-pound limit and then cut back down to 265. So I believe he's walking around somewhere in the 260s now.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:24:31 I think we will know the answer only when he will fight-

Joe Rogan 1:24:35 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:24:35 ... in this weight class. And we will know exactly how it's gonna affect him. Will it be good for him or bad for him? So we don't know. As I say, every person, it's different. And I know how my body works. I know, uh, what is good for me, what is bad for me. Israel, he knows exactly-

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:24:55 ... the same about his body type. Jon Jones, he knows, uh, exactly about himself. So this is, uh, everyone's approach. And I think everyone should do what they think it's gonna help them to win.

Joe Rogan 1:25:08 So for you, from going down from 135 to 125 was the right move? You felt, like, much better at 125?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:17 It's my natural weight class.

Joe Rogan 1:25:19 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:19 It's like, uh, it's like what I was competing all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:25:22 Have you ever thought of going lower?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:25 115.

Joe Rogan 1:25:26 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:26 And, uh, die from the hunger. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:25:32 (laughs) But there are some girls who fight at 115 that look, in between fights, very similar to you. Physically.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:39 I know. I know.

Joe Rogan 1:25:41 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:41 And I do- I really don't know how they do that.

Joe Rogan 1:25:43 Like Joanna. Like, Joanna is... You and Joanna fought-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:25:47 ... in Muay Thai.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:25:49 And then... And what weight was that at?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:51 57 kilos is 125.

Joe Rogan 1:25:52 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:53 And so then... Which is your natural weight.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:55 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:25:55 And then Joanna's had...... notorious struggles to get down to 115.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:25:59 Yes, I know, yes and she, she's like, uh, that's why I so, I have so much respect for her, what like, what she's doing is amazing and like when she's like fighting 115, uh, after all this weight cut and showing all technique, what she is showing, it looks so impressive and it's like very, uh, hard to do that and I know it's very hard. But, uh, you know, I feel good 125. I don't see a reason why I have to move down to 115. I don't wanna try. I don't wanna... Uh, because now it's my best shape. If I will try to lose my weight, um, it has to be the huge reason why I'm do that because, uh, we have to consider the, uh, what's gonna be after. I will lose all that, but it's gonna affect my performing in 125 as well because it's, everything has sequences, right?

Joe Rogan 1:26:58 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:26:59 And that's why you better think twice before you take decision. But no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:27:05 Yeah, I, I would, wouldn't think that was a good idea either. I was just curious. I think that there is a real issue with fighters that lose a lot of weight and I think the long-term consequences are probably ultimately not worth it.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:27:19 No, uh, uh, exactly, exactly. It's kind of like the same, the opposite way for example. They, um, going down too much, they are like having this extreme cut in weight, but them, uh, old weight, it has like ten- tendency come back like double-

Joe Rogan 1:27:39 (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:27:39 ... triple with the friends. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:27:41 Right. (laughs)

Valentina Shevchenko 1:27:41 Come with the friends and then it make harder to, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:27:45 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:27:45 ... go back and cut the weight again. So it's kind of like, it's going that way once, working once, but then ch- ch- ch- you have to do it-

Joe Rogan 1:27:54 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:27:54 ... like harder and harder before you decide that it's not a smart thing to do.

Joe Rogan 1:28:00 Yeah, your body starts to think that it's experiencing famine.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:03 A- and also it's like, it's fine, it's okay for when you are have 20, 25 years.

Joe Rogan 1:28:09 Right.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:09 But, uh, if you are thinking about long-term fighting-

Joe Rogan 1:28:12 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:12 ... you have to think about your health as well. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:28:15 Do you think there's enough weight classes in the UFC? Would you like to see more weight classes?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:20 Uh, for the female fighters?

Joe Rogan 1:28:22 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:23 Um, like, 145, 105-

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:26 ... something like that or-

Joe Rogan 1:28:27 Like the way they do it-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:27 ... something between?

Joe Rogan 1:28:28 ... with boxing. You know how boxing has, uh, so many champions and they have so many different weight classes. You know, in boxing they have, you know, oftentimes like every four or five pounds-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:28:38 ... would be a new weight class.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:28:40 I think, um, like to lose that much I don't feel it's gonna worth it. Like, um, I don't feel, um, that is gonna... It's something that, uh, UFC has to do because UFC has so unique type and it's like, uh, it's uncomparable to anything. It's, uh, uh, my opinion, it's even bigger than Olympics. It's, uh, way bigger than Olympics. That's why, um, yeah, maybe 105 for the smaller girl.

Joe Rogan 1:29:12 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29:12 Or 145, we have 145. So, but not in between. I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 1:29:17 Yeah, it's, um... There's a much m- m- more limited talent pool as well, right?

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29:23 It's just not so many, um, mixed martial arts fighters like this, um. Because what is UFC? It's, uh, UFC it's rosters, it's the best ones.

Joe Rogan 1:29:34 Yes.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29:34 The best ones in the world. It's not just a small league what you have like different levels of competitors. It's like you can see the roster and it's like, oh, low level-

Joe Rogan 1:29:45 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29:45 ... here's the high level. No, here it's like fr- since the beginning to the end, super high level of everyone.

Joe Rogan 1:29:53 Yeah.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:29:53 This is like why... Uh, this is what is make it so unique, so special.

Joe Rogan 1:29:57 Well, it's really interesting because that level has increased dramatically over the last decade and a half. When we first sta- saw Ronda Rousey competing in the UFC, some of the earliest female fights in the UFC, the competition that she was facing was just not at the same level as the male competition that... But now when you see like Rose Namajunas versus Zhang Weili, like that is a very, very high level fight. And it's very exciting 'cause they're both world champion-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:30:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:30:30 ... elite martial artists. So when, when they fight you're seeing two of the best of the best period in the sport.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:30:37 It is. And this is saying about how fast and how far mixed martial art developed.

Joe Rogan 1:30:45 Mm-hmm.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:30:45 And like even if you're comparing like UFC fighters 15, 20 years ago, it's gonna be different. Now it's like mixed martial mar- uh, arts it's complete fight style. It's, uh, not a fight between standup fighter, boxer or wrestler. It's two high level mix MMA fighters who are like know how to dominate like exac- uh, so good in boxing, so good kicking, like TaeKwonDo, so good wrestlers and like grapplers. So it's speaking about the how, uh, MMA develops through the years and it's amazing because now we can see, uh, there is no difference female fighter, male fighter. They are just like performing the best way and it's amazing watch them how they compete.

Joe Rogan 1:31:34 It really is amazing when you think back from when you first started training martial arts as a five-year-old girl in 1993 to today, the UFC is almost unrecognizable. If you go back and watch any other sport from 1993, b- say like football or basketball, it looks similar. They mean you might have better athletes today-

Valentina Shevchenko 1:31:54 And-

Joe Rogan 1:31:54 ... and better training today, but it looks pretty similar.... today, martial arts has expanded so far above and beyond what it was at in those days.

Valentina Shevchenko 1:32:04 Yes,