JRE MMA Show #115 with Valentina Schevchenko

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Okay, here we go. Valentina, pleasure to have you in here. Very excited.

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko0:18

      Yes. Finally I'm here, right? (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs) Finally, yeah. I mean, we've been talking about it for a while and, uh, I've been a fan of yours for quite a long time. You're a very unusual person, very unusual.

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko0:27

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      I mean, it's, it's unusual to be a martial arts champion, but you are ... You're an unusual martial arts champion. I mean, you're very ... You're very diverse. You have so many skills and talents. It's very strange. Like, how does one ... First of all, how many languages do you speak?

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko0:43

      Um, three what I speak, and I'm learning fourths. I learning Thai now.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:49

      You're learning Thai?

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko0:50

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       'Cause you were speaking Thai after one of your fights.

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko0:52

       The last one, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Yeah. So it sounds like you know it. Like you say you're learning it, but you, you got a lot to say.

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko0:59

       Uh, yeah, it's kind of like I can say a lot, but, uh, when I mean I'm learning, I want to, um ... So once I will speak it, like, fluently-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Mm-hmm.

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko1:10

       ... and I will understand, like, native people so good, then I consider it, yes, I speak language. Before that, it's kind of still learning and I think, um, I started to learning, like, couple years ago, but, um, I think it's very important to have practice with native people.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       Yes.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko1:29

       Go to Thailand and, like, forget about speaking English, just speak Thai, and this is how, like, um, you just adopt everything. So this is what I ... I want to put this language, Thai language, on the next level. Then I will say, okay, four. Now four. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       So, like, you immerse yourself?

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko1:49

       Um, maybe. Yeah. Kind of. Uh, because, for me, um, I try to do everything, like, as best way I can. Not the perfection way, right, but the best what I can.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       Now, your first language is Russian?

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko2:05

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       And when did you learn other ... When did you start learning other languages?

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko2:09

       Um, so, English, it was ... I started to learn it in the school, just some basics, because it's like a school program. We learn alphabet, some just very easy words, and nothing enough for, like, speaking, uh, level. But when I started to compete and go and travel for the competition, that was, like, my push for, uh, bringing, uh, my l- um, like, uh, language level to the next level. And, uh, when we moved to, um, South America, then I started to learn, uh, Spanish. But learning Spanish, it was, uh, kind of like the hard way. I came there with no one word in Spanish. No one word, and it's straight, like, to there. "If you want to learn Spanish, you have to speak Spanish right now." And, uh, I say from the moment what I started to speak to the moment when I, uh, was kind of, like, given my first interview, it was four months. After four months, I was giving my first interview in Spanish. It was not the perfect Spanish, but I still could communicate. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       So talk us through this journey. So why did you go to South America?

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko3:23

       Um, I, uh, was born in Kyrgyzstan. My, um, sister, she is martial artist. I was, uh, starting my training when I was very young age, five years old, and definitely, uh, um, like, through all the years what I practice in martial arts, I compete a lot. Every competition, a lot of martial arts, and, um, so, um, I started to compete in Kyrgyzstan. Then there was not any competition, like, any, um, opponents, and it was, like, hard to compete already. Then, uh, we start to travel. My coach, Pavel, with who I train, like, since the beginning, uh, he decide, like, to, um, "Okay, let's explore something new." We move to Russia for a couple years, and then it was like also no p- uh, uh, opponents to fight with, and, uh, we decided to move next and to see how to, like, explore. And definitely, um, I think for martial arts, for MMA, for, like, anything in S- South America, it's, um, a good place to. And mostly it's, um, interesting to explore, interesting culture from Russia, Kyrgyzstan, it's very far. It's kind of l- like s- totally different culture, and we decide to explore over there. We come to, um, South America and people there just wanted to learn a lot Muay Thai. We started to train, give, uh, like, classes, and they was asking for the seminars, and we stay a little bit more, a little bit more, and then we decide, "Okay, why we not stay here and live here?"

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       Hmm.

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko5:01

       And we stay there and lived for eight years.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       So you initially went there just to find people to compete with?

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko5:08

       No. Initially it was, um ... Mm, it's very hard to say in one word what it was initially, because I'm not traveling for looking for a gym. I'm not traveling looking for, um, something, like, one. I'm traveling for, to explore new places, to explore new culture, to, uh, have different, like, uh, adventures, if I can say, and this is what's initial reason for traveling, to, uh, see what is there. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       Hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Did ... Is this…

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko15:00

      enough time on your skills, but sometimes it's just not enough. Sometimes you have to go out and see something else, uh, I mean like, um, the character of the fight of different fighter to get this experience, to try it on yourself. Not only just, like, "Okay, this is my technique and I will perform it the best way that I can." Yes, but sometimes you have to add yourself, your spirit in tho- in this technique to modify it, uh, especially how it will- will work for you. And this is only way how you know this technique will work. It's, uh, if you are just, like, doing it because someone told you that it's right, it's one thing, but e- when you started to actually feel the technique, then it's became your, like, so natural things that it's kind of, like, uh, like, dangerous for everyone.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:52

      Did ... Is this something that you learned to ... That things all help other things? Like, whatever you do, the more you experience, the broader your understanding of things, the better it helps all of the things you do? Or is it something you were taught?

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko16:08

      Uh, it's combination. It's combination. What I, um, what my fr- mother was told me, what my coach, what Pavel told me, and definitely my own experience, because I see it works. First, I hear from them it works. It's one thing. When I- when actually I see it works, it's kind of like, uh, put stronger impact on you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:34

      Yeah.

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko16:34

      And definitely, uh, for the experience what I have, uh, uh, through the, like, all years what I practice in martial arts, I see this is the only one, uh, like, way how put your level on the n- uh, your game on the next level.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:49

      And now it's just intuitive? Now this is just how you approach things naturally?

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko16:54

      Yes and no. It's combination. Sometimes you have to, um, to break something, like, for example, uh, you trying to learn something new and you go for it. And you go for it and you try. It's like ... And you have, like, barrier. You cannot, like, break this barrier. And you try and you try and you try. Uh, sometimes you have to put there a little bit more pressure to break the barrier. And it doesn't, um, consist with anything like feeling or something like, um, uh, intuition, something like that. But, uh, once you break it, then it's, like, different level and then when you have to start to learn how to feel it from inside to perform it the better way.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:43

      So, your ... What was your initial martial art you started with when you were five years old?

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko17:47

      Uh, I started with taekwondo, taekwondo ITF. Uh, yeah. This is was my first sport.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:54

       And then how did you branch out from there? Like, what were the years? What ... Wh- when did you start training in different arts?

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko18:01

       Um, so it's ... Uh, every time, the ... What- what, uh, was idea of Pavel, uh, Pavel every time was thinking about universal fighter, about, like, fighter who, uh, doesn't have any, like, problem. Uh, for example, if you are speaking about striker, striker every time would feel something weird and, like, uncomfortable when, uh, someone other start to wrestle him. Right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:32

       Mm.

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko18:32

       And wrestler, he ... Uh, definitely he will feel not the best, uh, the- the strength when he's fighting. So, the idea every time was to-... be, like, universal, to create from, uh, his student universal fighters. That's why he put us in different competition as Kyrgyzstan, it's, uh, it's little country and there is so many martial arts. So many, uh, like schools and Pavel have friends like presidents of, uh, federation of karate, of presidentation of, uh, like different style of Taekwondo, uh, um, Wushu Sanda, so, like, different competition we, uh, would have. And we competed in different ones, like, uh, in my childhood it was like thousand different competition.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       Mm-hmm.

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko19:20

       And i- this is what, like, um, um, help me to feel the different style of fighting, different technique, and, um, I never, uh, had, like, um, problem to fight in different style. It was, uh, problem- it wa- it, it was kind of like how good you can transfor- transform yourself for the, uh, like, switch the chip for the different martial artists. That's why there, um, I cannot say there was like, "Okay, this day I switch standup for the crowd."

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Mm-hmm.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko19:57

       Or, like, I start to train, like, Muay Thai since this day, because, um, it's just never happen. It was everything l- everything, like, uh, so naturally development, like, um, going from one style to the another style. And more, uh, if we're speaking about Taekwondo, there is, like, a Taekwondo professional style, pro Taekwondo. It's, uh, uh, the same, like, fighting, similar to Muay Thai but, uh, uh, they wrestle with more, like, um, throws. I mean, like, like Judo throws or freestyle wrestling throws, so it's m- more, like, wide variety of throws. So it's kind of, like, also help for, um, um, my competition in Muay Thai. Um, yeah, but, um, when I started to compete more frequently in Muay Thai, it's, um, I would say since 2003.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:55

       And then you became just w- much more Muay Thai focused?

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko20:59

       Um, much more it started about 2005, '6, uh, because before, it was like, we already started to fight Muay Thai, MMA, and on that time, it was less competition for female fighters in mixed martial arts.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:19

       Mm-hmm.

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko21:19

       It was very hard to find, like, frequent fights. If you want to keep, like, busy and fight every time, you would fight, like, more like in standup, because there is more, uh, opportunities for you. And this is what it's, uh, how it started that I start to focus more in Muay Thai, because it was more opportunities in Muay Thai. But, uh, in 2010, when, uh, female MMA started to, like, just like boom, explode, yeah, we definitely was, uh, like thinking to come back, do the same, and we started to compete in Muay Thai and MMA.

   22. JRJoe Rogan21:56

       So it's interesting that your- the beginning of your journey in martial arts coincides with the beginning of the UFC. So if we go back 28 years, th- we're talking about, like, 1993, right? Like that is the beginning of the UFC.

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko22:12

       (laughs) Oh my god. (laughs) It's a good example, no?

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:15

       Yeah, it's a perfect example, right?

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko22:17

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       Because one of the things that we've always said, uh, as th- this sport has grown is that it's really interesting to watch these young kids growing up with martial arts, with mixed martial arts, as opposed to, you know, they would be 30 years old with a lifetime of wrestling and then learn how to strike and then enter the UFC. We're seeing people, like yourself, that when you started your martial arts journey was the beginning of the UFC, which is pretty crazy.

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko22:46

       Uh, it is, and I think it's, um, in some-

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:49

       And now you're a UFC champion.

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko22:51

       I know.

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:51

       It's crazy.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. So when you…

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko30:00

      um, more, like, arms in your, like, position, you have more percentages. So I want to have, like, f- 100% and, uh, percentage to win the fight. That's why I was training, like, everything and, um, like, training, uh, not just pretend to do technique, but know how to make people tap after this technique.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:23

      Yeah. So when you say more arms, you mean more weapons, right?

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko30:26

      Exactly. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      You mean ... Yeah, yeah. Just for people that ... Now, were you ... Uh, is this something that was just inside of you when you first started doing martial arts? Like, how did you ... When did you realize that you had this competitive spirit that would lead you to become a champion? Was this something that you knew from the beginning or was it something that you developed along the way? Like, did you always know that you wanted to be a martial arts champion?

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko30:50

      Um, I started, as I say, five years old and as a, like regular child, normal child, like, um, I doubt that anyone at this age would clearly know what they want, what they want to do in the future. For the children, um, like, it's like, what they wanna do? Just have fun, play. Play around with the same children, like around. And this is, uh, I was no exception. So, it was the same. I just wanted to, um, I don't know, just to be a child.

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:26

      Mm-hmm.

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko31:26

      Uh, but, uh, my mom, she put myself and my sister Antonina to the, um, um, gym of Pavel and we started to train there. So, um, she had vision for us that, uh, her children, her daughters have to do martial arts because she is martial artist. And she knew exactly this is something that she want for us, to be strong, to be confident, uh, to be, like, just fearless of anything because martial arts give that all. And, um, definitely at first, it was not anything deep. I mean, like s- knowing that one day I will be the champion or something like that. No, it was, it was just um, um, playing, doing some techniques in form of play and, um, just exercise. But when I start to grew up and I started to understand actually what I doing, like, and what I wanna be in the future, it was, um, I'm saying about like age 12, 13, 14. This is the perfect age for the children, for the child to understand and analyze what they're doing in the life, what they looking for, what they are, is their expectation from the life. And this is the age when I actually started to train with a lot of sense, uh, with a lot of like, uh, I understood that this is my life, this is martial arts, what I wanna be, like I wanna do forever, like (laughs) this, uh, this is what I wanted to do. And, um, I didn't know, um, where it's gonna lead me. I didn't know. It's just like you start one thing, you never know where it's gonna lead. You can expect something, but you don't know how it's gonna end. And for me, it was just like, to have this experience, to have this way in martial arts, just to enjoy the process. And this is how it's everything started, but, um, I would say once I start to understand that this is my life, martial arts, then I put my heart to all, like, trainings and, like, um, I wanted to be better and better. And, uh, there it was I discover my, like, talent, what I can do, what is my good side, and I discovered that I can understand technique way f- faster than other pe- uh, like children the same age and I can perform it, like a little bit better. And so, this is I start to just, ah, to feel it, uh, inside me.

   8. JRJoe Rogan34:10

      So, your mother was a martial artist as well?

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko34:12

      She is martial artist.

   10. JRJoe Rogan34:13

       She is martial artist.

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko34:13

       Yes. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       Not just was.

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko34:15

       No.

   14. JRJoe Rogan34:15

       Um, what style did she start with?

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko34:17

       Uh, sh- uh, she's president of Kyrgyzstan Muay Thai Federation actually. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       Oh. Wow.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko34:23

       Yes, she has her student, students. She has her, like, um, team, uh, w- what she's, like train and what, uh, she travel to world championships. But yes, and she started when she was young and it's kind of like was her passion for the, uh, for her life. And I'm so happy that, uh, she decides that this is what we will do, um, because it's kind of like, uh, yes. Because of her, I am where I am right now. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan34:57

       So, your mother started with Muay Thai or did she-

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko35:00

       No.

   20. JRJoe Rogan35:00

       ... have a bunch of different martial arts as well?

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko35:01

       Uh, y- she started in the, uh, time when it was like karate.

   22. JRJoe Rogan35:06

       Mm-hmm.

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko35:06

       But, um, um, it was like Soviet Union karate, underground karate because, you know, in Soviet Union it was prohibit to do karate.

   24. JRJoe Rogan35:14

       Karate was prohibited?

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko35:16

       Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan35:16

       Really?

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko35:17

       Yes.

   28. JRJoe Rogan35:17

       Interesting.

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko35:18

       And-

   30. JRJoe Rogan35:18

       Until when?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   So, it's about recognizing…

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko45:00

      to teach the students, it's not necessary to do dancing. He can just ... Or she can, uh, just teach their students on how to do the footwork, what is the better way to move or something like that. The other thing, not every coach naturally like teacher, because it also take, uh, a lot of knowledge. Uh, coach has to have this, like, vision of technique, and not only vision of how to teach exactly this technique for every student. No. Also, uh, it's like he has, for example, five different student, five different, like, biometrics, uh, fight style, like, different type of muscles, different, just different. And he has one technique, one, two, like, two straight, like, two hooks, whatever, but everyone would hit it differently. And if the coach see, um, and combine specific of each fighter with their, like, right angle, how to turn the fist or something like that, and can see this detail and say, "Okay, this is your thing. Do it right there. L- uh, this is will work for you." Maybe it's not the classical o- one. Maybe it's not the right what everyone think, like, this is the right way for this, uh, for this punch. Maybe it's, like, just a little bit angled, just something like that. But it's work for the student, and the student is winning with this technique. So, this is the, uh, what, uh, coach has to have, this type of the vision. But what I see, many coaches say, uh, knows their technique and they don't see the specification of each fighter, the, the, like, biotype of the fighter and they try to just break the nature gift what the fighter have and put this technique just, uh, like, what they are thinking is gonna be right. And this is what I want to say is this is wrong because it's kind of, like, um, it's not helping fighter to win and, uh, to get the right, um, um, technique for themself what it will work for them. It's just like, uh, what coach, like, just he is not naturally teacher. This is what I s- I, I mean the most important. It's not about dance. It's not about fighting. It's about right coach what you have.

   2. JRJoe Rogan47:31

      So, it's about recognizing that each person is different and not trying to impose one style on all the fighters.

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko47:39

      Exactly. Exactly, because, uh, even one style can be different. Even, uh, like, it's the same, but a little bit different.

   4. JRJoe Rogan47:48

      Yeah.

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko47:48

      Just small details. And, uh, coach has to see it. He, he has to understand.

   6. JRJoe Rogan47:56

      And that's really where the art in martial arts comes from, right?

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko48:00

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan48:00

      It's this expression of the individual that comes out while competing-

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko48:04

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan48:04

       ... and while training.

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko48:05

       Exactly. Yes. I totally agree.

   12. JRJoe Rogan48:07

       And it is an art. And to us, like, to people who practice martial arts, like, when I watch you fight, it's beautiful. It is an art, you know, even the most brutal parts of it. Like, when you knocked out Jessica Eye, like, it's beautiful. Like, the way you set up the kick to the body and then switched up to the head, that's ... For someone who appreciates what that is, like how you did that, it's beautiful.

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko48:30

       This is, this is, like ... I think that's why it's called martial arts. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan48:35

       Yeah. But for people, it's interesting because people that don't practice martial arts, they don't like that term. I've, I've heard that described. I've h- I've heard people talk disparagingly about martial arts saying, "That is not art. It's just brutality. It's just violence." And although brutality and violence is a part of the art, it is art.

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko48:58

       Because it's fighting art.

   16. JRJoe Rogan48:59

       Yes.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko48:59

       Definitely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan49:00

       Yes.

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko49:01

       Uh, uh, you cannot just go there and say, like, to your opponent, "Okay, let's agree. I do the technique and you will do the technique, and then I win."

   20. JRJoe Rogan49:08

       Right.

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko49:08

       So, you cannot just ... It's, uh, all about the fight.

   22. JRJoe Rogan49:11

       Yeah. It's about expressing yourself-... while the other person is trying to express themselves, and you both have similar-sized bodies, at least they weigh the same-

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko49:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan49:23

       ... and you're trying to figure out how to impose your skill set, and your training, and your technique, and your mind.

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko49:28

       Mm-hmm. Exactly.

   26. JRJoe Rogan49:29

       And, and, and that, I think, is one of the more interesting things about you, is this approach that you've taken to life, to educate yourself, to immerse yourself in different cultures and to achieve balance, clearly, that is having some sort of effect for you as a champion. Like, you're a different kind of person because of all these experiences, and I think that speaks volumes on who you are as a champion. I think it's one of the reasons why you're such an interesting person to watch fight.

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko50:01

       (laughs) Um, y- thank you. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan50:05

       (laughs)

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko50:05

       I think, yes, it's kind of, like, experience what I have through the years, what I practice in martial arts, it's, um, mm, teach me how to I have... How I have to react for the certain situation in the life, right? And, um, I see, for example, many, um, young people, they are, um, for example, having some success and they are starting to believe in themselves too much.

   30. JRJoe Rogan50:38

       Mm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:00

      you wrong things. No, so it's, uh, uh, it's completely you don't want to happen. It's something that, um, gonna mess, it's gonna, like, choke to each other-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Mm-hmm.

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:12

      ... strike each other, and be so- completely, like, not-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Incompatible.

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:16

      Exactly. So, this is you never want to happen.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

      Did you get advice from other fighters? Did you, did you, like, train with other champions and get advice from them at all?

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:26

      I trained with other champions, but, um, I don't need advices. The only person who I take advices, uh, this is my coach, my sister, and my mom, only three person-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

      (laughs)

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:40

      ... what I consider that they are, have rights (laughs) to give me advices.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

       (laughs)

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:45

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       Well, obviously, it's working.

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:47

       This is the most important. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

       Yeah, the, the most important thing is that it's working.

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:50

       But, but it doesn't matter I won't listen their something, like, what people have, uh, uh, rights-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       Mm-hmm.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko1:00:57

       ... saying right or something like exactly that I consider would work for me. It doesn't mean that I will close the eyes and I won't listen you. Uh, no.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Right.

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko1:01:07

       I won't do that, definitely. I will take it. But I mean, to go to someone and, like, "Oh, okay. Share your experience. Share your, like..." No. No. It's not... Y- even, like, you will listen it for 1,000 times, if you are not experienced yet, you never will feel it, it never will, it's never will work for you. So, uh...... backwards when I feel a person trying to give too much advices when no one asks them to give that advices. I feel like, "Okay, maybe I have to get away from that person." (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

       Yes. Yeah, that's a weird one, right?

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko1:01:47

       This is-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:47

       When someone is... It's usually someone who's not that good.

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko1:01:51

       Oh, no. They can be good.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:53

       Yeah?

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko1:01:53

       They can be good, uh, like, uh, physically, like, technically.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

       Mm-hmm.

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko1:01:58

       But they maybe not that good with their-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       Mentally.

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko1:02:01

       ... mind. Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       Yeah. Maybe, right? And maybe they're trying to convince themselves-
6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00

   Mm. …

   1. VSValentina Shevchenko1:15:00

      uh ... I didn't experience any problem fighting 135, but definitely I would s- have to think more about strategy for the fight.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:12

      Mm.

   3. VSValentina Shevchenko1:15:13

      Being smaller, you cannot, uh, you have to think about different tactic, how to approach two different fighter, because sometimes you will have enough power to break them, sometimes no. So it's kind of like yes or no maybe, and you have to have your backup plan, and you have to have your, like, uh, body, uh, ready for different game plan. That's why it's, uh, uh, I didn't have problem to fight in 135, but, uh, I every time was to think about, uh, something extra things.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:48

      Do you foresee a possibility of you competing at 135 pounds again? 'Cause Amanda Nunes is kind of running out of opposition, and you're kind of running out of opposition, and you both had epic fights against each other. Do you think that that's possible?

   5. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:05

      Uh, there is only one possibility, why I move up to 135, and this is it. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:16:11

      Yeah. Do you think that could be the case someday?

   7. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:14

      I think so. Why not? It's gonna, ev- if everything gonna s- continue, like, that way-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:16:20

      Yeah.

   9. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:20

      ... it's just gonna be inevitable.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:22

       D- uh, is there anyone in your division right now, in 125, where you look at them and you say, "I wanna, uh, I wanna fight her"?

   11. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:31

       It's just not my style. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:33

       Hmm. You just wait till-

   13. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:34

       Just looks like, okay. It's not my style, uh, I would say, to pick opponent for you.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:39

       Mm-hmm.

   15. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:40

       Uh, because all the time I was, when I was fighting Muay Thai, MMA, I was like, "Valentina, would you fight her? Yes. Valentina, would you fight her? Yes. Her? Yes." So it was, like, the way I am. It is the way I am. I'm not choosing my opponents.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:57

       Right.

   17. VSValentina Shevchenko1:16:57

       I'm not looking for some, like, easy fights. I want to fight with the, the best ones. That's why, um, uh, I just not picking one. I just wait when UFC gonna, like, "Okay, this is your opponent." (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:17:09

       Well, it's, it is an unusual situation though. Like I said, you are in this position that's very similar to, like, many of the great fighters that are dominant champions, where you don't have one person who stands out.

   19. VSValentina Shevchenko1:17:24

       I think that, uh, there is a lot of girls. There a lo- like, in 125, it's, uh, the most comfortable weight class for females, like, one-two- 125, it's not too big, not too small.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:17:38

       Mm-hmm.

   21. VSValentina Shevchenko1:17:39

       And a lot of girls, they are, like, in this weight class. And, like, from the straw weights, they going up. From the bantam weights, they going down. So, uh, it's just, like, uh, very strong girls over there. But, uh, as I said, um, like, it's wrong to compare, uh, like, when they fight me, and you have to watch them fighting, like, to see their levels.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:18:03

       Mm-hmm.

   23. VSValentina Shevchenko1:18:03

       Because my goal is to fight differently. It's like I say, when you can finish them, but they cannot touch you.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:18:11

       Right.

   25. VSValentina Shevchenko1:18:11

       So it's every time was the same. Muay Thai was the same. You, for example, I was, um, watching them fight s- to each other before I fight them, and I was like, like, "Wow, yeah." But then it's completely different. So i- it's kind of like ... In 125, I think there is, like, whole rosters, they are very good. They are very strong. And you could see the last f- like, the last event when it was all bonuses-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:18:34

       Mm-hmm.

   27. VSValentina Shevchenko1:18:35

       ... for the female fighters. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:18:37

       Yeah. No, there's obviously some great, great talent in the female division of the UFC. Um, was Amanda Nunes your, your most difficult fight?

   29. VSValentina Shevchenko1:18:47

       Uh, I never was considered, like, um, difficulty of the fight, only for the fight (laughs) , for this-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:18:58

       Mm-hmm.
7. 1:30:00 – 1:32:34

   Yes. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:30:00

      has increased dramatically over the last decade and a half. When we first sta- saw Ronda Rousey competing in the UFC, some of the earliest female fights in the UFC, the competition that she was facing was just not at the same level as the male competition that... But now when you see like Rose Namajunas versus Zhang Weili, like that is a very, very high level fight. And it's very exciting 'cause they're both world champion-

   2. VSValentina Shevchenko1:30:30

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:30:30

      ... elite martial artists. So when, when they fight you're seeing two of the best of the best period in the sport.

   4. VSValentina Shevchenko1:30:37

      It is. And this is saying about how fast and how far mixed martial art developed.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:30:45

      Mm-hmm.

   6. VSValentina Shevchenko1:30:45

      And like even if you're comparing like UFC fighters 15, 20 years ago, it's gonna be different. Now it's like mixed martial mar- uh, arts it's complete fight style. It's, uh, not a fight between standup fighter, boxer or wrestler. It's two high level mix MMA fighters who are like know how to dominate like exac- uh, so good in boxing, so good kicking, like TaeKwonDo, so good wrestlers and like grapplers. So it's speaking about the how, uh, MMA develops through the years and it's amazing because now we can see, uh, there is no difference female fighter, male fighter. They are just like performing the best way and it's amazing watch them how they compete.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:31:34

      It really is amazing when you think back from when you first started training martial arts as a five-year-old girl in 1993 to today, the UFC is almost unrecognizable. If you go back and watch any other sport from 1993, b- say like football or basketball, it looks similar. They mean you might have better athletes today-

   8. VSValentina Shevchenko1:31:54

      And-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:31:54

      ... and better training today, but it looks pretty similar.... today, martial arts has expanded so far above and beyond what it was at in those days.

   10. VSValentina Shevchenko1:32:04

       Yes, and it- it- it- it's- this is, like, uh, a dream for a mixed martial artist to, uh... Every time it was, um, like, dream of mine and is, like, to be comfortable in everything, know how to fight in every single, like, situation, don't have any, uh, like, um, fear that, "Okay, if someone will throw me down, what should I do?" (laughs) No.

Episode duration: 2:29:29