CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:51
Reunion, podcast origins, and a banned COVID ‘snake venom’ documentary
Joe welcomes Jake Shields and they reminisce about knowing each other for decades and how the podcast used to be a fringe show. They jump immediately into a bizarre COVID documentary (“Watch the Water”) and the fact that it was removed from YouTube.
- •Jake and Joe reflect on their long history and the podcast’s early audience
- •Discussion of ‘Watch the Water’ and outlandish claims (snake venom, ‘mark of the beast’)
- •Why controversial content gets people more curious
- •YouTube bans as fuel for conspiracy thinking
- 2:51 – 4:37
Platform censorship, pharma influence, and Elon/Twitter ownership questions
The conversation shifts from the documentary to broader concerns about censorship and narrative control during COVID. They discuss pharmaceutical advertising influence, big institutional ownership, and Elon Musk’s free speech jabs at Saudi-linked investors.
- •Crackdowns on ‘anti-narrative’ COVID content and retroactive vindication of claims
- •Mentions of bans of commentators who were ‘ahead of the curve’
- •Pharma’s advertising dominance and incentives in media ecosystems
- •Twitter ownership and Elon’s free speech exchange with Saudis
- 4:37 – 6:18
Doping in early MMA: steroids, USADA ‘melting,’ and beating tests
Joe and Jake dig into performance-enhancing drug culture from the late 1990s onward. They talk about how widespread steroid use was, how USADA changed physiques, and how teams may still stay ahead through microdosing and chemistry.
- •Jake’s first MMA era (1999) and normalized PED use
- •Teams and fighters who avoided steroids despite pressure
- •USADA’s arrival and visible body changes, then later ‘figuring it out’
- •Speculation on microdosing, peptides, and wealthy teams hiring experts
- 6:18 – 8:00
Retirement realities and the economics of non-UFC leagues (PFL, Bellator)
Jake explains where he is with fighting, why he’d only return for the right payday, and how PFL treated him. They compare pay versus promotion, attention gaps with the UFC, and how tournaments and contracts work.
- •Jake weighing retirement: jiu-jitsu competitions vs MMA bouts for big money
- •PFL experience: solid pay but less promotional momentum
- •Bellator’s talent vs UFC’s attention dominance
- •Million-dollar tournament incentives and structure
- 8:00 – 10:23
Bellator highlights, Strikeforce nostalgia, and the ‘Mayhem’ brawl story
They review notable Bellator moments (Corey Anderson vs Nemkov no contest) and how freak accidents affect prize fights. Then they revisit the hype era of Strikeforce/EliteXC and the infamous cage brawl involving Mayhem Miller.
- •Corey Anderson–Nemkov head clash leading to a no contest in a high-stakes fight
- •How Bellator compares to Strikeforce’s peak hype years
- •EliteXC’s CBS exposure and Strikeforce’s rise
- •Jake recounts the Mayhem brawl and its cultural moment in MMA
- 10:23 – 15:45
Jake’s ‘accidental’ first fight, early MMA chaos, and brutal old rules
Jake tells the story of taking his first fight from the crowd with only weeks of training (but with wrestling). They riff on the anything-goes era: bare knuckle bouts, nets under ropes, groin shots, and infamous nut-shot stories from early events.
- •Jake’s first fight: last-minute replacement and immediate regret mid-wrist-tape
- •Training with and learning from a young, savage Chuck Liddell
- •Vale Tudo and early UFC rule chaos (groin shots, headbutts, kicks on the ground)
- •Wild anecdotes: Keith Hackney nut punches, hair pulling, grotesque ‘ball grab’ tale
- 15:45 – 21:33
Vegetarian ethics, hunting debates, and diet adaptation (plus donut temptation)
Joe and Jake explore Jake’s lifelong vegetarianism, ethical motivations, and how meat affects his digestion. They contrast that with Joe’s hunting rationale, talk protein sources, and joke about donuts while circling back to ‘Satan’ snake venom humor.
- •Jake’s ethics-first vegetarianism and physical reaction to eating meat
- •Joe’s hunting choice as an alternative to factory farming
- •Protein sources (beans/eggs) and individual dietary variation
- •Food cravings and consequences: Krispy Kreme vs ‘best donuts in Round Rock’
- 21:33 – 26:13
Online trolls, the ‘OK’ hand sign, and performative activism backlash
They discuss how troll campaigns can manufacture meaning (like the ‘OK’ gesture controversy) and how real-world consequences can follow. Then they revisit the post–George Floyd climate, social pressure, and the ‘black square’ phenomenon.
- •Trolling dynamics (4chan) and memetic misinformation
- •Real example of someone losing a job over a misinterpreted hand gesture
- •BLM-era social enforcement and coercion to display solidarity symbols
- •Joe’s critique of performative posts as power exercises, not solutions
- 26:13 – 29:06
San Francisco lockdowns, riots, and Jake’s pivot into political Twitter
Jake explains why he started speaking out publicly: harsh Bay Area lockdowns, looting, and perceived double standards. They discuss business devastation, ‘optics’ over evidence (outdoor dining), and wealth shifting upward during the pandemic.
- •Lockdown severity and enforcement in San Francisco
- •Riots/looting and policy tolerance fueling Jake’s frustration
- •Economic impact on small businesses and the middle class
- •Jake’s audience shift: politics gets traction, fight talk doesn’t
- 29:06 – 33:25
Fighter health: deviated septum, broken noses, staph infections, and Thailand hospitals
A tangent about Jake’s breathing and deviated septum turns into stories about fighters’ noses and a Josh Barnett nose-fix video. From there they discuss staph infections, medical costs, and Jake’s surprisingly positive, inexpensive hospital care in Thailand.
- •Deviated septum surgery: recovery expectations and quality-of-life gains
- •Josh Barnett ‘fixing’ a broken nose and infection risks
- •Staph horror stories, including Jake’s severe case in Thailand
- •Thai medical care: clean, fast, and far cheaper than the U.S.
- 33:25 – 39:02
Sparring culture, concussion caution, and judging controversies in MMA
They compare Thai sparring culture (light, technical) with boxing gyms’ hard-spar wars and social-media bravado. Then they shift to fighter safety and the difficulty of concussion management, and finally to judging debates (10-8 rounds, Sterling vs Yan).
- •Why Thai fighters spar light and how it improves technique longevity
- •Boxing gym hard sparring culture and posting KO clips
- •Concussion recovery timelines and long-term neurological effects
- •Scoring debates: what should count as a 10-8, and why criteria feels inconsistent
- 39:02 – 40:11
Life after fighting: business ventures, coaching select athletes, and big-arena memories
Jake describes the identity shift of retirement and how he’s filled that void with business and coaching. He plugs his clothing brand, discusses cornering as an adrenaline substitute, and recalls major career moments like fighting in Toronto’s huge stadium.
- •Retirement identity loss and why athletes overstay their primes
- •Jake’s ventures: American Jiu-Jitsu clothing and High Rollers involvement
- •Selective coaching model and why he keeps a small stable of fighters
- •Career highlights: massive venues, tough opponents, and unpadded matchmaking
- 40:11 – 53:03
Weed in fight culture: High Rollers, Diaz stories, and commissions’ punishment mismatch
They laugh about competing while high and how infrequent Jake actually smokes despite Diaz associations. The conversation turns serious about athletic commissions, marijuana testing, and how punishments have been harsher for weed than for steroids in some cases.
- •Jake’s ‘terrifying’ experience competing high at High Rollers
- •Nick vs Nate Diaz marijuana habits and iconic blunt stories
- •Old-school drug testing and weight cuts affecting THC positives
- •Commission power dynamics: Nick Diaz suspensions vs steroid cases
- 53:03 – 1:02:36
Danaher, B-Team/PR split, and the evolution of gi vs no-gi jiu-jitsu
Joe and Jake talk about John Danaher’s obsessive brilliance, injuries, and encyclopedic knowledge across grappling and striking. They touch on the Puerto Rico period and team split, then dive into gi vs no-gi philosophy and how jiu-jitsu has become more ‘exotic.’
- •Danaher’s rare intellect and all-consuming coaching routine
- •Injury limitations and stoic teaching style during recoveries
- •Team dynamics: Puerto Rico boredom, Austin move, and B-Team emergence
- •Gi vs no-gi debates and jiu-jitsu’s shift toward competition-specialized techniques
- 1:02:36 – 1:40:38
Neck/back longevity tools, strength training debates, and Louie Simmons tribute
Jake and Joe compare chronic wear-and-tear issues and share what’s helped—Iron Neck for range and strength, light deadlifts for rehab, and Reverse Hyper for decompression. They discuss Louie Simmons’ influence, extreme training culture, and his recent passing.
- •Iron Neck as a safer rotational strengthening tool
- •Bulging discs, doctors telling fighters to quit, and proving them wrong
- •Light deadlifts and Reverse Hyper as back-saving staples
- •Louie Simmons’ legacy: innovation, intensity, and the cost of the lifestyle
- 1:40:38 – 3:10:26
Modern politics vs old America: duels, presidents, and how fast history compresses
A discussion about dueling culture and Andrew Jackson’s many duels becomes a broader reflection on how ‘not that long ago’ early American violence and hardship were. They contrast frontier risk-taking with modern comfort, and end by marveling at how quickly societies transform.
- •Andrew Jackson’s dueling history and honor culture as a ‘courage test’
- •How primitive weapons, hygiene, and boredom shaped violent norms
- •Frontier-era migration risks vs modern risk aversion
- •Perspective on time: the U.S. as ‘three people ago’ and rapid civilizational change
