JRE MMA Show #122 with Jake Shields

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) So, do you know- (laughs)

Jake Shields 0:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:15 We just ... Everybody keeps j- ... Hello, Jake Shields. Good to see you, bro.

Jake Shields 0:18 How's it going, Joe? Great to be on your show.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Great to have you.

Jake Shields 0:19 Known you for, like, what? 15 years?

Joe Rogan 0:21 Long fucking time, brother.

Jake Shields 0:22 And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 0:23 Maybe more. It might be like 20.

Jake Shields 0:24 Yeah, right, 20.

Joe Rogan 0:25 Yeah.

Jake Shields 0:25 I remember seeing your podcast, um, when it first started. You were like a small little-

Joe Rogan 0:30 I know.

Jake Shields 0:30 ... fringe show-

Joe Rogan 0:30 Yeah.

Jake Shields 0:31 ... for like, uh, potheads, fight people, comedians.

Joe Rogan 0:33 Well, I waited until it got real big to bring you on.

Jake Shields 0:35 Yeah, so now-

Joe Rogan 0:36 (laughs)

Jake Shields 0:36 Oh, no, no, no pressure now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:39 So, we were talking about this, uh, what is it called? This C-OVID documentary-

Narrator 0:44 Watch-

Joe Rogan 0:44 ... that I think is made by the Russians.

Narrator 0:46 Watch the water.

Jake Shields 0:46 It's definitely true, by the way.

Joe Rogan 0:47 Watch the water.

Jake Shields 0:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 Definitely true. So, what are they trying to say? There's snake venom?

Narrator 0:52 All right. Well, the-

Joe Rogan 0:55 (laughs)

Jake Shields 0:56 (laughs)

Narrator 0:57 I don't know.

Jake Shields 0:57 They say ... I- I've just heard this one, by the way. Joe just broke this one to me.

Joe Rogan 1:00 Yeah, just-

Narrator 1:01 I mean, someone was saying that it was the mark of the beast. Let's ... Let me read you the byline.

Jake Shields 1:05 Okay. Okay.

Narrator 1:05 And you tell me, uh, what you think-

Jake Shields 1:06 Hit me with it.

Narrator 1:07 ... we're gonna get-

Jake Shields 1:07 Okay.

Narrator 1:07 ... and what you're gonna watch.

Jake Shields 1:08 Okay.

Narrator 1:09 "The plandemic continues-"

Jake Shields 1:10 Hmm.

Narrator 1:10 "... but its origins are still a nefarious mystery."

Jake Shields 1:13 Oh.

Narrator 1:14 "How did the world get sick? How did COVID really spread? How did the Satanic elite tell the world about this bioweapon ahead of time?

Jake Shields 1:24 Oh.

Narrator 1:24 "Watch. This doctor has unveiled a shocking connection between this pandemic and the eternal battle of good and evil, which began in the Garden of Eden."

Joe Rogan 1:33 Oh, Jesus.

Jake Shields 1:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:35 So, that's what it is. They were saying that the s- the snake venom-

Jake Shields 1:38 Snake venom. And so there's this ... their picture-

Joe Rogan 1:40 And it-

Jake Shields 1:40 ... there's like a snake-

Joe Rogan 1:41 Oh, boy. So, it's the mark-

Jake Shields 1:43 ... that's under the-

Joe Rogan 1:43 They're saying it's the mark of the beast.

Jake Shields 1:45 Yeah, 'cause Sat- 'cause the snake is like, you know, represents Satan, so literally Satan blood.

Joe Rogan 1:49 The crazy thing is they've banned this from YouTube. Like-

Jake Shields 1:52 Really?

Narrator 1:52 I-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Yeah.

Jake Shields 1:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:53 At what, at what point in time ... Come on.

Jake Shields 1:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:56 What, what, what about fun?

Jake Shields 1:58 Yeah, we should be able to watch things about-

Joe Rogan 1:59 Yeah.

Jake Shields 1:59 ... snake blood and, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:00 (laughs)

Jake Shields 2:00 ... the Devil's beast. I, I wanna watch it now.

Joe Rogan 2:03 I mean, even if it's ridiculous. Come on. What about fun? Because I think when you pull things like this down from YouTube, it just makes the really nutty people think that there's an even grander conspiracy.

Jake Shields 2:15 Yeah. No, trying to, trying to fight it makes it seem like there might really be something there, like it doesn't need to be taken down.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Yeah.

Jake Shields 2:20 Especially this is just so ridiculous. It's like, come on.

Joe Rogan 2:23 But the thing is, when you start saying "Satan," people start getting real curious. Like, "Maybe, man. Maybe."

Jake Shields 2:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29 "Might be Satan." Satan ... What is it Keyser Söze says? Phrased? "The biggest trick the Devil played."

Narrator 2:35 I was trying to find out if ... Just outside of this. If you tried to make, um, you know, like one of those infomercials from the '90s and said you had some fake product that could-

Joe Rogan 2:43 Right.

Narrator 2:43 ... cure this, and you made a 45-minute version of that and put it on YouTube, would they allow that?

Joe Rogan 2:48 As long as it's not about COVID.

Narrator 2:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:51 The, the thing is like, they've, they've cracked down so hard on any, anything that is against the COVID narrative. That's, that's what's going on with that.

Jake Shields 3:01 Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of crazy how they'll ban e- even stuff that's true. I mean, stuff like-

Joe Rogan 3:05 Yes.

Jake Shields 3:05 ... this is obviously probably not true, but things that we now know for a fact are true ... Guys like Alex, um, Bernstein. You've had him on your show.

Joe Rogan 3:12 Yeah. Yeah, Alex Bernstein.

Jake Shields 3:13 Yeah, he got, he got banned for putting-

Joe Rogan 3:14 Yeah.

Jake Shields 3:14 ... stuff that was true just ahead of the curve.

Joe Rogan 3:16 100% true.

Jake Shields 3:16 Y-

Joe Rogan 3:17 Ahead of the curve. If you put it out now, there wouldn't even be a debate about it.

Jake Shields 3:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Like, all the things that he said about, like, masks not working, about how people that are vaccinated can still spread it. It's ... The problem is that 75% of all television advertising, 75%-

Jake Shields 3:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:33 ... of it is ma- is from pharmaceutical companies.

Jake Shields 3:36 Yup. And, uh, you know who owns, uh, Twitter? Pharmaceutical companies and Vanguard and BlackRock and ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:42 Well, also, like, the Saudi family, right? Isn't that like one of the royal families? 'Cause they were tweeting-

Jake Shields 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:46 ... with Elon when-

Jake Shields 3:47 You see-

Joe Rogan 3:47 ... Elon was trying to buy it.

Jake Shields 3:48 You see E- Elon's response? It was like-

Joe Rogan 3:50 Yeah.

Jake Shields 3:50 ... "Oh, yeah. So what's, uh, what's Saudis," uh, something like, "opinion on, uh, free-"

Joe Rogan 3:54 Free speech.

Jake Shields 3:54 "... free ... " Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 Yeah.

Jake Shields 3:55 I'm pretty sure that was a jab at the journalist they, uh, chopped up alive in Turkey.

Joe Rogan 3:58 Yeah. Jamal Khashoggi.

Jake Shields 4:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Yeah.

Jake Shields 4:01 I mean, that's how I, that's how I thought of it, at least. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 4:03 Did you ever see that documentary, The Dissident?

Jake Shields 4:05 No, I didn't.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Dude, it's dark. It's Bryan Fogel, and he's a brilliant documentary, uh, guy who, who also made, um ... He made Icarus. Did you see that? That's the one on the Russians cheating at the Olympics.

Jake Shields 4:17 I heard of it. I know I need to watch it, but I have not seen it.

Joe Rogan 4:20 (sighs) It's amazing.

Jake Shields 4:20 I hear that's really good. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:21 It's amazing. It's amazing 'cause it shows the ... how the Russian, um, doping program, how deep it goes.

Jake Shields 4:29 Damn.

Joe Rogan 4:29 Like, it goes ...

Jake Shields 4:31 There's a lot of strong Russians I've trained with.

Joe Rogan 4:32 (laughs)

Jake Shields 4:33 Not saying they're doping. Just trying to be clear about that, but-

Joe Rogan 4:35 Well, I mean-

Jake Shields 4:36 ... just know you guys are strong.

Joe Rogan 4:37 Jake, you started MMA and, and, and com- competition jujitsu in the days where ... rampant steroid use.

Jake Shields 4:45 Yeah, everywhere.

Joe Rogan 4:46 I mean, it was everywhere.

Jake Shields 4:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:47 Like, in the early days of fighting, like, when you were first ... Like, what, what year was your first MMA fight?

Jake Shields 4:52 I think '99.

Joe Rogan 4:54 '99.

Jake Shields 4:54 Yeah. Surprising that we were always in the teams that were always like ... not like huge anti, but we were just never doing it, you know?

Joe Rogan 5:00 Right.

Jake Shields 5:00 With Nick, Nate, Gil, all those guys.

Joe Rogan 5:02 Right. Those are some of the few guys that didn't.

Jake Shields 5:05 Mm-hmm. You know, like in the sport, it's true. Most people are doing it, and it made it hard not to 'cause you know everyone's doing it. It's like-

Joe Rogan 5:10 Right.

Jake Shields 5:10 ... going off, and it made it so hard. There's definitely less now, but to me, I think there's still some out there. You see some of these guys just looking so jacked, such-

Joe Rogan 5:17 Yeah.

Jake Shields 5:17 ... good shape. I have no idea what they're doing to beat the tests, but seems like some guys are.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Well, I mean, obviously there's some genetic freaks, but I think there's also some things that you can get away with.

Jake Shields 5:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:28 You know? I think micro-dosing testosterone, you could probably get away with.

Jake Shields 5:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:33 There's probably a bunch of different peptides that are still legal that are effective.

Jake Shields 5:37 Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. Genetics, but then you'll see a team that has like 10 guys that are all jacked. It's like, hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Jake Shields 5:43 (laughs) Not gonna say any teams, but-

Joe Rogan 5:44 Well, what's crazy is when USADA came along, how many people melted.

Jake Shields 5:47 Mm-hmm. You know, exactly, 'cause they melted, but you look at them now, and now they're blown back up.

Joe Rogan 5:51 Yeah. They figured it out. They've worked out-

Jake Shields 5:54 But-

Joe Rogan 5:54 ... the cycles.

Jake Shields 5:55 That's kind of what I think, but I have no inside information, so I'm just speculating.

Joe Rogan 5:58 Well, the amount of money that's in MMA now is so substantial, and-... a lot of these teams are backed by, like, really wealthy people.

Jake Shields 6:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:07 And they bring in fucking chemists.

Jake Shields 6:09 Yep. They can stay ahead of the-

Joe Rogan 6:10 Yeah.

Jake Shields 6:11 ... head of the curb. That's what I assume is going on. But again, I have just no idea and I would never accuse anyone of, uh, of juicing without knowing. That's a messed up thing to do.

Joe Rogan 6:18 Have you fucked around with anything? Have you tried anything?

Jake Shields 6:20 Not really.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Now, not really is a weird word. (laughs)

Jake Shields 6:23 Well, like diuretics, uh, (laughs) I'm getting older now, so-

Joe Rogan 6:26 To make money?

Jake Shields 6:26 ... I think it might be about time to not competing.

Joe Rogan 6:28 Are you done competing, totally?

Jake Shields 6:30 Well, I'd still compete in jujitsu-

Joe Rogan 6:31 Yeah.

Jake Shields 6:31 ... but most likely fighting. I mean-

Joe Rogan 6:33 Yeah.

Jake Shields 6:33 ... if someone offers me a shit load of money for another name guy, I'll do it. But I'm not gonna fight, like, some 25 and 0 Russian that no one's ever heard of-

Joe Rogan 6:39 (laughs)

Jake Shields 6:39 ... that they're trying to build up off of me.

Joe Rogan 6:42 Right. When was the last time you fought? How many years ago?

Jake Shields 6:44 Like, three years ago.

Joe Rogan 6:45 Three years ago?

Jake Shields 6:45 And, you know, retirement is, uh-

Joe Rogan 6:46 Was that PFL?

Jake Shields 6:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:48 Yeah?

Jake Shields 6:48 Yeah. Lost my-

Joe Rogan 6:49 How was-

Jake Shields 6:49 ... last fight. So kind of-

Joe Rogan 6:50 How was that pl- competing over there?

Jake Shields 6:52 I mean, it was good. They, they pay good, but they just don't have the same kind of, uh, promo and attention.

Joe Rogan 6:57 Right.

Jake Shields 6:57 It's just, uh, you know, some of these shows pay better than the UFC for most people, but they don't build the hype. So it sucks with fighters, sometimes they're looking at, you know, "Do I take a pay cut and go in the UFC and get less famous?" I mean, I had to take a pay cut after, uh, I left Strikeforce, but I wanted to fight GSP. So it's like-

Joe Rogan 7:12 Right.

Jake Shields 7:12 ... I wouldn't have been happy with myself if I haven't got it. So, it sucks to be in a situation to have to take a pay cut, but that's how it goes sometimes.

Joe Rogan 7:18 Yeah. Um, there's a lot of these companies that have to pay a lot of money to get-

Jake Shields 7:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:23 ... good talent. But it's still, it's like, Bellator is the only one that's getting real attention.

Jake Shields 7:28 But they're not still getting anywhere near the attention of the UFC, not even close.

Joe Rogan 7:31 No.

Jake Shields 7:31 Like, I have this guy I'm going to corner next week, Pat- Pacs- uh, Patchy Mix.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 7:35 Absolute savage, you know. Like-

Joe Rogan 7:37 Yeah.

Jake Shields 7:37 ... he's 15 and 0 as an amateur, all submissions. Like, 15 and 1 as a pro, like, 13, 14 submissions. And like, no one really knows who he is and he's fighting... He's in the Million Dollar Tournament, so he's getting paid well, but it just-

Joe Rogan 7:47 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 7:47 ... sucks that he's not getting the... For how good he is, he's not getting the recognition he deserves.

Joe Rogan 7:51 So, how does that work? He gets a million bucks if he wins the tournament?

Jake Shields 7:55 Yeah, I think he... And he gets paid on top of it, too. His salary, I believe.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Oh. Really?

Jake Shields 7:58 So, I think it's a million plus, you know, whatever he is first fights.

Joe Rogan 8:00 Did you see Corey Anderson versus Nemkov this past weekend?

Jake Shields 8:04 (sighs) I missed that.

Joe Rogan 8:04 Oh my God, it was such a bummer. Because first of all, Nemkov is a beast, but Corey Anderson was working him. Corey Anderson was way ahead in the fight. He was dominating him on the ground, he was taking him down. He was doing fantastic in the stand up and then during the ground and pound, he slipped, like, tr- trying to throw an elbow, I believe, or maybe a punch, and they collided heads. Nemkov got a giant gash-

Jake Shields 8:29 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 8:29 ... and they stopped the fight and made it a no contest. So, this is the million dollar fight.

Jake Shields 8:34 Oh, Jesus. Oh, that's the-

Joe Rogan 8:35 If he wins... Yeah. That's-

Jake Shields 8:35 That was the final one?

Joe Rogan 8:36 Yeah, that's it, because Nemkov's the champion.

Jake Shields 8:38 So are they gonna fight again, or-

Joe Rogan 8:39 Yes.

Jake Shields 8:40 ... what are they gonna do?

Joe Rogan 8:40 Yes, they have to fight again, but now Nemkov has-

Jake Shields 8:41 Two fights for a million dollars.

Joe Rogan 8:42 This is like... Here, l- watch this again. So what... Just go a little bit before this, so you can see, like-

Guest 8:47 Keep showing it.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Yeah.

Guest 8:48 I'm just trying to find that slow-mo where... Here you go.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Well... Yeah. So, he was going to throw an elbow and he got-

Jake Shields 8:52 Oh.

Joe Rogan 8:52 ... blocked and, and, you know, deflected and clashed heads. And props to Corey, who immediately said, "I hit him with my head."

Jake Shields 9:01 Damn it.

Joe Rogan 9:01 See, look, he w- See, it was just that, like, his arm slipped off and they collided heads.

Jake Shields 9:05 I wouldn't have said anything if I was Corey. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:07 Well, Corey's a good man. Not that you're not, but, you know, he just-

Jake Shields 9:11 But I still won't say anything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:11 He just wanted to be... So, Nemkov's a bad motherfucker, though. He's a-

Jake Shields 9:15 Man.

Joe Rogan 9:15 ... beast. I mean, he knocked out Ryan Bader and-

Jake Shields 9:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:18 ... uh, Corey just... It just was one of those things, man. I mean, there's nothing you can do.

Jake Shields 9:24 Yeah, man. Bellator had some great fighters, but-

Joe Rogan 9:25 They're doing well.

Jake Shields 9:26 They're doing well, but they never... They, they haven't got the same kind of hype that Strike Force had when I was there-

Joe Rogan 9:30 No.

Jake Shields 9:30 ... my own thing. Because-

Joe Rogan 9:30 Well-

Jake Shields 9:30 Strike Force was the show-

Joe Rogan 9:32 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:32 ... other than Pride, that managed to get some real hype.

Joe Rogan 9:34 And Elite XC, remember for a little bit?

Jake Shields 9:36 Yeah, that was the... Kinda turned into that. That's why I did-

Joe Rogan 9:37 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:37 ... Mission to Elite XC, because Strike Force bought Elite XC and got their TV deals.

Joe Rogan 9:41 Wasn't Elite XC on CBS?

Jake Shields 9:44 Yep, they had CBS-

Joe Rogan 9:45 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:45 And, and then Strike Force got that deal. So-

Joe Rogan 9:47 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:47 ... I was fighting on all those shows. That was when... That was when I was able to get some hype outside the UFC. That was a good time period.

Joe Rogan 9:52 That was the, "Sometimes these things happen in MMA."

Jake Shields 9:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:55 When the brawl broke out between-

Jake Shields 9:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:56 ... Mayhem and you guys.

Jake Shields 9:57 Yeah, it was after I beat-

Joe Rogan 9:58 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:58 ... Henderson.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Yeah.

Jake Shields 9:59 We went out there and then Mayhem jumped over the cage, started talking crap and we just beat, beat the hell out of him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:04 (laughs)

Jake Shields 10:05 In his defense, he never complained about it. Took his beating like a man. He's crazy, but... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:10 That was just... When, when Gus Johnson said, "Sometimes these things happen in MMA," everybody's like, "What the fuck are you saying?"

Jake Shields 10:17 Yeah. That, that brawl was hilarious. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:19 It was. It was hilarious. But-

Jake Shields 10:21 Uh-

Joe Rogan 10:21 Those were the wild days of MMA.

Jake Shields 10:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:23 You know? It's so funny, like, uh, when you say y- you competed in '99, 'cause that's like... God, man, you were on the early, early days. That's six years after the birth of the UFC.

Jake Shields 10:35 Yeah, it was at that s- yeah, you're right, '93. Holy-

Joe Rogan 10:37 Yeah.

Jake Shields 10:38 ... crap (mumbles) . Yeah, the sports I've watched have just changed so much, you know. I've had fights bare knuckles. Um, my first fight, I was actually in the crowd watching the fight, just there to watch and someone didn't show up. It was like, "Does anyone wanna fight?" And my dumb ass is like, "Yeah, me, me."

Joe Rogan 10:51 (laughs)

Jake Shields 10:51 And they're sitting there, I'm going up, and they're taping my wrists and I'm sitting there back there being like, "Wait, what did I just do?"

Joe Rogan 10:56 (laughs)

Jake Shields 10:56 "Is this, uh... Is this a good idea?"

Joe Rogan 10:58 How old were you?

Jake Shields 10:59 I'm a moron. Probably 20, so I was a moron.

Joe Rogan 11:02 (laughs)

Jake Shields 11:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:03 How long had you been training?

Jake Shields 11:05 I think, like, three, four weeks.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Oh, that's-

Jake Shields 11:07 But I, but I was a wrestler.

Joe Rogan 11:08 ... hilarious.

Jake Shields 11:08 I thought I could beat everyone else, so... And I did win the fight.

Joe Rogan 11:10 Wow.

Jake Shields 11:11 But I thought I was, like, unbeatable.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Did you have any striking training at all?

Jake Shields 11:15 Oh, no. Oh, I think I got-

Joe Rogan 11:17 (laughs)

Jake Shields 11:17 ... the crap beat out of me by Chuck Liddell one time.

Joe Rogan 11:19 One time. (laughs)

Jake Shields 11:20 I wanted to, like, spar him 'cause, you know... We know how Chuck looks, right? But-

Joe Rogan 11:23 Right.

Jake Shields 11:23 ... imagine if you'd never seen Chuck, you'd be like, "This guy is ridiculous. I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess this guy up." So going in-

Joe Rogan 11:29 Really? Chuck?

Jake Shields 11:30 I didn't really think I was messing with him, but I thought I would do well. And I got in there with him and he just creamed me. And this was-

Joe Rogan 11:35 And this was when you were 20?

Jake Shields 11:36 Yeah, just... But he, he didn't try knocking me out with head shots, but he did with, uh, liver shots.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Ugh.

Jake Shields 11:41 Yeah, it was not, not fun.

Joe Rogan 11:42 Dude, Chuck in the early days, when... Before Chuck was a champion, when, you know, people were ducking him. It was hard for him-

Jake Shields 11:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:48 ... to get fights, like when he fought Babaloo. Like, Chuck was a fucking monster.

Jake Shields 11:53 Damn, yeah, I was training with him that time period. That's... He's the guy who introduced me to fighting, and man, what a savage. What a-

Joe Rogan 11:57 He was kill or be killed.

Jake Shields 12:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:00 Like, these young kids that don't know, put some respect on that guy's name.

Jake Shields 12:04 (laughs) Yeah, dude, that guy's a legend.

Joe Rogan 12:05 (laughs)

Jake Shields 12:05 I mean, I look up to Chuck because he's the guy that got me into the sport, so I always look up to him as, like, a mentor and a big brother, you know?

Joe Rogan 12:10 Yeah, du- during the early days of MMA, I mean, he was...He was the kill or be killed guy.

Jake Shields 12:17 Mm-hmm. He's the, you know, he's the guy that motivated me to take it for a career. Because he started making a little money and I'm like... A little money, probably like 30K a fight. But I was so broke, I was like, "Oh, man. Maybe I can make some money with this sport." And just, uh, went after it.

Joe Rogan 12:30 Yeah. That was (sighs) it was such a crazy time, right? Because like Chuck fought Pele in Vale Tudo in Brazil.

Jake Shields 12:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:40 When they had nets-

Jake Shields 12:41 Yup.

Joe Rogan 12:42 ... under the bottom rope. Remember? So you couldn't slip out.

Jake Shields 12:44 He got caught under the net.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Yeah.

Jake Shields 12:45 Was it Pele, right? And Chuck was-

Joe Rogan 12:46 Yeah.

Jake Shields 12:46 ... just beating the crap out of him.

Joe Rogan 12:47 Bare knuckle.

Jake Shields 12:47 I remember his head (laughs) was in... Yeah. That was-

Joe Rogan 12:49 Yeah. There it is.

Jake Shields 12:49 ... savage.

Joe Rogan 12:50 That's the fight.

Jake Shields 12:50 Thir- thir- 30-minute fight I think?

Joe Rogan 12:52 (clicks tongue) Yeah. But look how they have the nets under the bottom rope. That was just so insane. So you couldn't scoot out.

Jake Shields 12:56 Mm-hmm, which I kinda liked that actually, 'cause in Japan I'd be fighting guys and they, they, they would let the Japanese scoot out, but they wouldn't let us Americans scoot out.

Joe Rogan 13:03 Oh, really?

Jake Shields 13:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:04 Really? They would stop you?

Jake Shields 13:05 Like in Judo they would... Yeah, they tried to grab us, but then sometimes they'd let the other guy shake them down, they'd slide right out of the ring and they-

Joe Rogan 13:10 Oh.

Jake Shields 13:10 ... restart you on the feet.

Joe Rogan 13:12 There should... Look at this. Wow.

Jake Shields 13:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:17 That's Chuck Liddell in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Jake Shields 13:19 Yeah, that was like... What year was that? 'Cause I was early when I knew Chuck and I remember I was just so pumped when he won that.

Joe Rogan 13:24 If I had it... Let me guess.

Jake Shields 13:25 Two-

Joe Rogan 13:25 I don't-

Jake Shields 13:25 I'm gonna say 2001.

Joe Rogan 13:27 (imitates whooshing sound) I bet it's earlier. I bet it's like '99.

Jake Shields 13:33 Could be, 'cause it was early when I knew Chuck.

Joe Rogan 13:35 Does it say? Groin shots were legal.

Jake Shields 13:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:38 Headbutts were legal. Kicks to the head of a ground, on the ground were ille- were legal. It was anything goes.

Jake Shields 13:45 Yeah, it was like-

Joe Rogan 13:45 Groin shots. The fact that groin shots were legal is just fucking bonkers.

Jake Shields 13:50 Yeah. Even UFC 1, those weren't, were they?

Joe Rogan 13:53 (clicks tongue) Yes, they were. Do you remember-

Jake Shields 13:54 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 13:54 ... Keith Hackney, uh, and Jo San? Jo San, uh... Keith Hackney was on the ground and Jo San was hanging onto him, and Keith Hackney was punching him in the nuts.

Jake Shields 14:05 (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Over and over and over again. (laughs)

Jake Shields 14:06 That's right. And then remember Royce Gracie grabbed Kimo's hair?

Joe Rogan 14:09 Yeah.

Jake Shields 14:10 And he was trying to pull him down by his hair.

Joe Rogan 14:11 Yep.

Jake Shields 14:12 So...

Joe Rogan 14:12 The worst was Big Daddy Goodrich versus The Pedro. Do you remember The Pedro?

Jake Shields 14:18 Pedro Hisop?

Joe Rogan 14:19 No, The... He was The Pedro.

Jake Shields 14:21 No, I don't.

Joe Rogan 14:21 He was the guy who fought Vale Tudo in Brazil. And Big Daddy Goodrich reached into his shorts and grabbed his balls and crushed his balls with his hand.

Jake Shields 14:32 Jesus. That is a savage man.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Reached into his fucking shorts in the middle of a fight and grabbed his hog-

Jake Shields 14:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:40 ... and crushed his nuts.

Jake Shields 14:41 You say this is Big Daddy Goodrich?

Joe Rogan 14:43 I'm not... I'm 99% positive.

Jake Shields 14:44 I'm gonna, I'm gonna remind myself never to get in a fight with Goodrich. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:47 (laughs) Well he's, he's most certainly done. But I'm 99% certain-

Jake Shields 14:51 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 14:52 ... that that's, that's who did it.

Jake Shields 14:53 I don't know how I missed that one. That is, uh...

Guest 14:55 Who would it have been against?

Joe Rogan 14:56 The Pedro.

Guest 14:57 Against The Pedro.

Joe Rogan 14:58 So it was a guy named The Pedro.

Jake Shields 15:00 S- yeah. What year did you start watching fighting? Like, really early?

Joe Rogan 15:02 I found out about it in '94.

Jake Shields 15:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:06 It was after the first UFC. I had just moved to LA and I watched the second UFC. I got it from a video store, like a Hollywood Video or some shit.

Jake Shields 15:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:14 And I was like, "Oh my god. What is this?"

Jake Shields 15:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:17 And then, um, I, I found out a, you know, that this was like a thing that they were doing on a regular basis. I couldn't bel-

Jake Shields 15:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:24 So I f- I saw it after it had already aired. Like maybe-

Jake Shields 15:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:27 ... I'd heard about it.

Jake Shields 15:28 Yeah, same with me. I think around '95 or something.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Yeah.

Jake Shields 15:30 My dad rented some and I'd bring it home like, "Oh my god. This is crazy."

Joe Rogan 15:33 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 15:34 Never thought I would do it obviously. I mean these guys are nuts. But then when I started, uh, fighting my dad's like, "You can't do this."

Joe Rogan 15:39 (laughs)

Jake Shields 15:40 I'm like, "Uh, Dad, you're the one that, uh, brought these videos home, introduced it to me." So...

Joe Rogan 15:45 Did you have any idea of doing something else? Is... Was there something else you wanted to do when you were young?

Jake Shields 15:50 I had no clue what I wanted to do. I was just a young kid getting in trouble. I thought maybe be a pro snowboarder 'cause all my friends were trying to do that. But I didn't really have any ambition. I was going to school but no idea what I wanted to study. So I caught fighting and just, um, completely fell in love and got addicted and just, uh, you k- you know, couldn't help going for it and trying it.

Joe Rogan 16:08 It's interesting because people have this idea of like what, um, the, like what kind of personality gets involved in fighting. But your personality's like kind of the opposite. You're like very friendly.

Jake Shields 16:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Real quiet. You're mostly-

Jake Shields 16:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:22 ... vegetarian.

Jake Shields 16:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:24 You know?

Jake Shields 16:24 Well, fully vegetarian, but-

Joe Rogan 16:25 Are you fully vegetarian?

Jake Shields 16:25 Not, not vegan though. Yeah. Vegetarian, so...

Joe Rogan 16:27 Do you eat eggs?

Jake Shields 16:28 I do eat eggs.

Joe Rogan 16:28 Yeah.

Jake Shields 16:28 The vegans and no eggs, so...

Joe Rogan 16:30 Right. Do you, um... But you do that mostly for like ethical reasons, right?

Jake Shields 16:34 Mostly for ethical reasons, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah.

Jake Shields 16:36 I grew up vegetarian so it makes it a lot easier for me. So I never had to like cut it out. I don't miss it. So it just kind of... The few times I've eaten it I felt like nasty and felt weird and actually physically sick too. So I'm like-

Joe Rogan 16:47 Meat?

Jake Shields 16:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:47 First time you... Really?

Jake Shields 16:48 In the... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:48 Wow.

Jake Shields 16:48 It makes my stomach bloat. If I was to eat it, I would do like you, go hunting or something.

Joe Rogan 16:52 Yeah.

Jake Shields 16:52 'Cause the idea of like these factory farms are just, I don't know. If you watch any of those videos, just-

Joe Rogan 16:56 (exhales)

Jake Shields 16:56 ... just disgusting.

Joe Rogan 16:57 That's why I became a hunter. 'Cause I watched those-

Jake Shields 16:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:59 I had two choices in my mind. I said I was either gonna become a vegetarian or I was gonna start hunting.

Jake Shields 17:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:05 And so I started hunting.

Jake Shields 17:06 Yeah, no. A lot of my good friends have gotten into hunting but it's kind of... Uh, they've invited me but I'm just like, "I don't know if I want to kill an animal still. Maybe I'll go out with them just for the backpacking experience though."

Joe Rogan 17:15 Yeah. Well it's great backpacking experience for sure. But the thing about hunting is that like you h- they have to kill those animals.

Jake Shields 17:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:22 Like there's, there's so many of them, they, they have to be hunted, especially like deer.

Jake Shields 17:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:27 Like when you're around here, around Texas-

Jake Shields 17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:29 ... they're fucking everywhere, man.

Jake Shields 17:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:30 I mean when I drive home at night, uh, when I'm getting close to my house, I have to drive slow 'cause these fuckers are jumping out in front of the car all over-

Jake Shields 17:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:38 ... the place.

Jake Shields 17:38 Yeah. No, I mean it kind of makes sense. But it's still like if I don't eat it, to kill something would just feel wrong to me.

Joe Rogan 17:43 Yeah. Well, the only reason why I would kill something and not eat it is that like if you have like a dangerous situation.

Jake Shields 17:50 Oh yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:51 You know?

Jake Shields 17:51 That's, that's different. If an animal's coming after me then definitely.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Well you have... Or you have predators on your property that are trying to kill your-

Jake Shields 17:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:56 ... animals or stalk your dog or something like that.

Jake Shields 17:59 Oh yeah. That's a totally different situation.

Joe Rogan 18:01 Yeah. I mean, but most animals you can eat, you know?

Jake Shields 18:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:04 You can eat anything.

Jake Shields 18:05 Ate a snake once 'cause we-

Joe Rogan 18:06 Really?

Jake Shields 18:07 ... killed that so I figured, uh, might as well, uh, might as well eat it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:09 What was that like?

Jake Shields 18:10 I don't know. That let me taste like, tastes like chicken I guess. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:13 (laughs) But you don't eat chicken, so how would you even know that?

Jake Shields 18:15 That's what everyone says.

Joe Rogan 18:16 When was the last time you actually had meat?

Jake Shields 18:19 Uh, probably like 10 years ago.

Joe Rogan 18:21 Wow.

Jake Shields 18:22 ... 'cause this blows my stomach out. I don't feel good-

Joe Rogan 18:23 That's interesting that it blow ... I guess, eh, uh, it's probably your body's, like, so accustomed to just eating vegetables.

Jake Shields 18:28 Yeah. I read there's like ... I think we, um, we build enzymes for the meat.

Joe Rogan 18:31 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jake Shields 18:31 And I think I probably could build it within a couple of days, but like ... But it just ... I don't have it from never adjusting it, so it would take me a little bit to readjust to eating meat.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Like, what is a, um, a standard meal for you? Like, what do you eat?

Jake Shields 18:42 Everything. Burritos, salads, you know, lots of fruit.

Joe Rogan 18:44 Bean and cheese burritos?

Jake Shields 18:45 B- Bean, cheese burritos.

Joe Rogan 18:46 Yeah.

Jake Shields 18:46 And vegetables, rice, um, you know, Thai food, Indian food, I eat all, all kinds of stuff.

Joe Rogan 18:51 What do you get, like as your, your, for your primary protein source? What do you use?

Jake Shields 18:55 A lot of beans.

Joe Rogan 18:56 Beans.

Jake Shields 18:56 And I don't really consume that much protein. I probably should consume more protein, but I feel like I'm ... If ... Everyone always says I'm strong that trains with me. So ...

Joe Rogan 19:03 No, you're very strong. Uh, so it's like ... You know, I th- I think there's different bodies, man. There's sh- Like, like some people are allergic to foods. Other people eat them easily. It ... Everybody's ... There, there's some sort of a biodiversity-

Jake Shields 19:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:17 ... amongst human beings. There's, there's d- ... You know, there's different people, man. Different ... Some people can eat all plants, and some people get sick when they eat all plants.

Jake Shields 19:25 Yeah. No, I'm really curious too if I ate meat, how my body would feel. I thought about it at one point in my fighting career, to give it a try for a while. My strength trainer was trying to get me to, but then I ate it a couple times, and I just felt so weird. And just the not never eating it, when I would eat it, flesh, it would just be hard, like hard for me to put down.

Joe Rogan 19:39 Really? Just like psychologically?

Jake Shields 19:41 Me- Mentally and physically. So it's both. It's psychologically-

Joe Rogan 19:43 Hmm.

Jake Shields 19:43 ... it's hard eating it, and then physically, I would get sick afterwards too. So it's like, "Oh, I can't do this."

Joe Rogan 19:46 If you were gonna do it physically, I would tell you to eat a very small portion. I would say, like, have a, like a four-ounce piece of, like-

Jake Shields 19:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:53 ... you know, some sort of free-range buffalo or something like that.

Jake Shields 19:56 That's kind of what I believe from the looking at diet. I think the best diet is maybe that with meat like once or twice a, twice a week, small amounts. 'Cause that's what I always have friends being like, "Oh, I want to switch to vegan or vegetarian." I'm like, "Hey, do it slow, you know?"

Joe Rogan 20:07 Yeah.

Jake Shields 20:07 "Just cut your meat way back. Eat it like twice a week."

Joe Rogan 20:09 Yeah. Well, that's the case with almost ... I mean, look, your body gets addicted to alcohol, which is crazy-

Jake Shields 20:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:15 ... 'cause it's terrible for you. But if you just keep drinking alcohol all the time and then cut off all the alcohol, you'll die.

Jake Shields 20:21 Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:22 That's-

Jake Shields 20:22 I know people that have tried to quit, and they just can't get out of bed. They're sick. They're-

Joe Rogan 20:25 Yeah.

Jake Shields 20:25 ... throwing up from, from not drinking. It's so weird.

Joe Rogan 20:27 Well, that's how weird the body is. The body's get ... Body gets-

Jake Shields 20:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:30 ... so accustomed to consuming certain things. Like, if you have a person who eats only one kind of food, and then they radically change it, your body's probably like, "What the fuck is going on?"

Jake Shields 20:41 Yeah. It goes ... And then that's kind of how I watch my diet, wha- how, how stuff makes me feel. If I eat something and I don't feel good, I know I don't wanna eat it. Like, if I eat Krispy Kreme, I feel sick. I'm like, "You know what? I don't think those are good for me." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:51 Yeah. I feel sick, but while I'm eating it, I feel amazing.

Jake Shields 20:54 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:54 While I'm chomping down, you get that, that fr- Those ... The chocolate cream-filled ones, those are my favorite. Like ah ...

Jake Shields 21:01 Just melt in your mouth.

Joe Rogan 21:02 But as soon as I'm done, I'm so angry at myself. And then I feel like shit for hours.

Jake Shields 21:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:06 It's like the amount of time you feel like shit versus the amount of time you feel good ...

Jake Shields 21:09 Yeah. It's n- not worth it.

Joe Rogan 21:11 You get about 30 seconds of good.

Jake Shields 21:13 But if you get donuts, you have to go to this place in Round Rock. Unfortunately, I can't think the name. Just put in donuts in Round Rock, it'll pop up. Like, probably the best donuts I've ever had.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Really?

Jake Shields 21:21 Y- It's w- worth driving up there.

Joe Rogan 21:22 I'm not going.

Jake Shields 21:23 Or s- s-

Joe Rogan 21:24 (laughs)

Jake Shields 21:24 Send Jamie. Make Jamie do it. Make him earn his pay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:26 Jamie has to research this snake venom stuff to make sure that Satan is not trying to play a trick on us.

Jake Shields 21:31 I think Satan is.

Joe Rogan 21:32 You think so?

Jake Shields 21:33 Yeah. So back to that, who do you think comes up with that? You think someone being serious? You think someone trolling? You think, uh-

Joe Rogan 21:36 I think there's a lot of variables. Th- It could be, like, Russians that are, like, coming up with some nonsense to try to make people fight online. There's, there's definitely a lot of these things that are trolls. There's a lot of these things that are created in, um, whether it's Reddit or all these other places.

Jake Shields 21:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:55 You know?

Jake Shields 21:55 Like the, the okay hand signal? Oh wait, I might get banned for doing that 'cause you see that one-

Joe Rogan 21:59 No, the okay one was ... That's a weird one, right? 'Cause it used to be ... There's some sort of game that some dorks play.

Jake Shields 22:05 Oh, yeah. It's the smack game.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Where you smack a guy in the nuts-

Jake Shields 22:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:08 ... if you ... if your fingers point in a certain way.

Jake Shields 22:12 Yeah. I bet if you-

Joe Rogan 22:12 You know?

Jake Shields 22:12 ... done this before, I'd just smack them back. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:14 I don't understand that game. I didn't know about that game until Tim Pool told me about it.

Guest 22:18 It's just a dumb game.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Did you kn- What?

Guest 22:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:20 What is it? How does it work?

Guest 22:22 Got you. Made you look.

Jake Shields 22:23 If you look, like below the leg, if you hold it here and you look, then I get to punch you.

Guest 22:27 Just made you look.

Jake Shields 22:27 I'll try to get you later.

Joe Rogan 22:28 What?

Guest 22:28 Made you look.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Do you b- In the nuts?

Jake Shields 22:30 No, no, no, no.

Guest 22:31 Oh, yeah. Well, it depends.

Jake Shields 22:32 You can just like-

Guest 22:32 Really, it's just a punch-

Joe Rogan 22:33 Some guys-

Guest 22:33 ... in the arm.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Oh.

Guest 22:33 But, uh, it depends on how ... what kind of friend you got.

Joe Rogan 22:36 But it's also a white power thing.

Guest 22:38 Yeah, it became a whole-

Jake Shields 22:38 No, that's not real.

Guest 22:39 Tha- That's where it became the 4chan troll stuff.

Jake Shields 22:41 4chan made that up to see like how ridiculous they could push things. They go, "Let's see if we can get people to believe the okay thing is a white-"

Guest 22:47 But-

Jake Shields 22:48 "... pride thing." And then it bought on.

Guest 22:49 But then it caught on.

Joe Rogan 22:50 But then the white power people did start using it.

Guest 22:52 Right. But do they-

Joe Rogan 22:53 'Cause I remember there was this photo of these militia guys, and they wa- They had that thing. They were holding their fingers that way.

Guest 22:59 Yeah. People do do it.

Joe Rogan 23:00 And they were saying that's what ... Yeah.

Guest 23:01 Yeah.

Jake Shields 23:02 I think it's pretty rare. There w- I saw one, there was a Mexican guy. He was driving through a Black Lives Matter protest, and he had his hands through the car's window just like chilling there.

Joe Rogan 23:09 Oh.

Jake Shields 23:10 And then it got spotted, and he got ... It went viral, and this ... He got fired, lost his job. Now he's like broke.

Joe Rogan 23:15 He's Mexican?

Jake Shields 23:16 And he's Mexican. He's like, "How can I be white pride?"

Joe Rogan 23:18 Oh, my God.

Jake Shields 23:18 I didn't ... He was just like an older dude, like doe- probably doesn't-

Joe Rogan 23:21 Maybe he had a booger on his-

Jake Shields 23:22 I'm sure he doesn't have Twitter.

Joe Rogan 23:23 ... his face just flicket. (laughs) That is crazy. They fired him for holding his finger like that?

Jake Shields 23:28 Yep. And he was just sitting outside his car. He was just chilling, drive- driving by, and someone photographed it-

Joe Rogan 23:32 That-

Jake Shields 23:32 ... and it went viral.

Joe Rogan 23:33 That is so ridiculous. As if he's signaling to people.

Jake Shields 23:37 Mm-hmm. He's like an older, in his 40s, family-

Joe Rogan 23:39 Oh, my God.

Jake Shields 23:39 ... like nice guy. Probably doesn't go online.

Joe Rogan 23:42 They fired him for that?

Jake Shields 23:43 Yeah. I can't remember-

Joe Rogan 23:44 God-

Jake Shields 23:44 ... what company it was, but-

Joe Rogan 23:45 ... damn.

Jake Shields 23:46 But, yeah, he got fired. And I saw an interview recently, and I think he was like, you know, lost all his money. He was like all bummed out. And he's like, "Clearly, I'm not a white supremacist."

Joe Rogan 23:53 Oh, my God.

Jake Shields 23:53 "I'm Mexican."

Joe Rogan 23:53 That's so fucking stupid. I remember there was a video of this lady who was eating outside of a restaurant. I think it was in Washington, DC.

Jake Shields 24:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:04 It might have been, might have been in Brooklyn. I forget where it was. But she was eating outside, and all these, uh, Black Lives Matter people came by, and they were telling her that she had to, like, raise her fist-

Jake Shields 24:16 Raise her ... (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:17 ... in solidarity. And she's like, "I'm not doing that. I've marched with you guys. I'm not doing that. I'm here eating." And like, they're screaming and yelling at her. And then they told ... Like, th- Like, some of the m-... organizers were like, "White people, get in front. Yell at her." And white people yelling at her.

Jake Shields 24:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:29 I'm like-

Jake Shields 24:30 That was-

Joe Rogan 24:30 You forget the frenzy.

Jake Shields 24:31 Yeah, that was so mad. It's so funny 'cause I just saw that yesterday. Someone, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:34 Yeah.

Jake Shields 24:34 Somebody on your show-

Joe Rogan 24:35 James Lindsay.

Jake Shields 24:36 James Lindsay posted that.

Joe Rogan 24:36 Yeah.

Jake Shields 24:36 And I saw that, and I'm like, "What the..."

Joe Rogan 24:38 We forget. We forget how-

Jake Shields 24:40 How crazy it was.

Joe Rogan 24:40 ... what a frenzy, like, that whole post-George Floyd time was. Because it was two things going on. It was, one, people realizing, like, there's so much police violence.

Jake Shields 24:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:51 It has to end. And then there was also these white people that were clamoring to make sure that people don't think they're racist.

Jake Shields 24:59 Yeah. I mean, everything was just so polarized and it was crazy.

Joe Rogan 25:01 Yeah.

Jake Shields 25:01 If you didn't jump online and agree with them, you were a racist.

Joe Rogan 25:03 Yeah.

Jake Shields 25:03 If you didn't post a black square.

Joe Rogan 25:05 Yeah, the black square.

Jake Shields 25:05 I think I got, you know- I think I got people mad at me, I didn't post a black square.

Joe Rogan 25:09 Oh.

Jake Shields 25:09 (laughs) Calling up, "Jake didn't post a black square."

Joe Rogan 25:12 Yeah, I saw- I ha- I saw some people having a conversation about that, like, you know, and they were like, "Hey, he didn't even post a black square." I'm like, "Hey, fuck you."

Jake Shields 25:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:19 You don't- you can't tell someone they have to post a goddamn black square.

Jake Shields 25:22 Did you not post one either, Joe?

Joe Rogan 25:23 No, I did not post a black square.

Jake Shields 25:25 Racist.

Joe Rogan 25:25 It's so dumb.

Jake Shields 25:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:26 Like, that black square is not gonna fix anything. Like, and you making someone post a black square is just you exercising power over people.

Jake Shields 25:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Getting people to submit. That's all it is. You're not fixing shit.

Jake Shields 25:37 Yeah. No, exactly. But I know a lot of people-

Joe Rogan 25:38 Yeah.

Jake Shields 25:38 ... that posted it that didn't want to. I talked to them, they're like, "Oh, I felt pressured to post it." I mean, it's their fault for not being stronger, but I hold that out for a bunch of people. Particularly girls, a lot of times they feel the pressure. They're like, "I don't want to post this, but my friends are, like, texting me." And stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 25:50 Well, I know guys that felt that pressure too.

Jake Shields 25:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:53 But it's just, like, those are scary moments because people are accustomed to telling people what to do and getting people to comply. And it becomes this, like, weird bully thing.

Jake Shields 26:03 Yeah, we're really going through a weird time with that in the last couple years.

Joe Rogan 26:05 Yeah.

Jake Shields 26:05 You know, it was never like that when I grew up, but it's gotten, uh, pretty crazy, like, the last five years. And people just- especially San Francisco, where I was living.

Joe Rogan 26:12 Yeah.

Jake Shields 26:12 It's just nuts.

Joe Rogan 26:13 Well, you were diving into the waters of Twitter. I was like, "Look at Jake go."

Jake Shields 26:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:17 'Cause you- it seems like you-

Jake Shields 26:18 I never used it till recently, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Yeah, it seem- but it seemed like you had gotten to a point where you were like, "Fucking enough." Is that accurate?

Jake Shields 26:25 That's exactly what happened. I think it was the COVID lockdowns were just so extreme in San Francisco. And then the Black Lives Matter riots came, and they were letting people just loot and rob people. And I'm like, "You know what? I'm just gonna start fucking-"

Joe Rogan 26:35 Talking.

Jake Shields 26:35 "... speaking my mind."

Joe Rogan 26:36 Yeah.

Jake Shields 26:36 I probably lost about 20,000 followers in the first week tweeting, but-

Joe Rogan 26:38 Did you really?

Jake Shields 26:39 Maybe, like, 10. But-

Joe Rogan 26:40 Wow.

Jake Shields 26:40 ... it took me a while, but I slowly- now I'm back above where I was.

Joe Rogan 26:43 (laughs)

Jake Shields 26:43 Just different audiences. (laughs) But- but now, when I tweet about fighting, it gets, like, hardly any, uh, any traction. I'll tweet about politics and it goes crazy.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Love it.

Jake Shields 26:51 So I just have a different audience. It's kind of hilarious.

Joe Rogan 26:52 That's so funny.

Jake Shields 26:54 But if I, like, go- like, so if I start- my audience I picked up, if I start talking crap on Trump or something, it'll get, like, no- no likes. No retweets.

Joe Rogan 27:01 (laughs) Yeah, it's- the- the- the San Francisco way of handling things might be the worst in the country. Well, it's like s- the whole Pacific Northwest. It's San Francisco-

Jake Shields 27:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:12 ... Portland, and Seattle. They handled that shit worse than anybody.

Jake Shields 27:17 It was just unreal. You know, most of my- like, half my frie- fe- friends, you know, middle class people, who have spent years working their ass off, probably more than half of them minorities, to build businesses up, and just got their businesses crushed. Most of them went under. You know, restaurants-

Joe Rogan 27:29 Yeah.

Jake Shields 27:29 ... clubs, gyms.

Joe Rogan 27:30 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jake Shields 27:31 It's just, uh- they don't realize the damage it does to people. Especially the middle class and the money-

Joe Rogan 27:35 They didn't fucking care because their checks kept coming. All those politicians, they ... And I have a friend, and his brother works on the COVID board in California.

Jake Shields 27:45 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 27:45 And they were talking about banning outdoor dining. And he said, "Why would we ban outdoor dining? There's no cases that can be attributed to outdoor dining. This is not a- a factor." And the woman he was talking to said, "It's all about the optics."

Jake Shields 27:59 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 27:59 Like, imagine you're gonna close a fucking restaurant that's been struggling for a year.

Jake Shields 28:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:04 They finally get a little bit of money coming in. They're finally rehiring wait staff, rehiring bar staff. Everybody's kind of getting back in work again.

Jake Shields 28:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:13 And they go, "Oh, we're gonna shut down outdoor dining."

Jake Shields 28:16 Yeah, I think a lot of people just don't realize the devastation it did to people. Maybe they have a tech job or they're- you know, they don't live in those towns. It's a completely different job where they can stay home and get paid. But they don't realize you're completely killing people's businesses that have spent years, sometimes their lifetime, to build, and just kill it over that.

Joe Rogan 28:30 Yeah, I think it's just the politicians. I think they don't care. 'Cause I think they get paid no matter what.

Jake Shields 28:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:37 And they feel oddly disconnected from the people, you know.

Jake Shields 28:40 Yeah. Well, I think about 4 trillion went up to the top 1% during this and, like, but I'd say about the same amount got lost from the middle class.

Joe Rogan 28:48 You mean $4 trillion?

Jake Shields 28:49 Dollars.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Got moved, yeah.

Jake Shields 28:50 E- e- extra money got moved from the- from the middle-bottom to the top.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Yeah, I don't think about that too much, but that redistribution of wealth thing. Dude, if you keep breathing in the microphone like that, I guarantee you people are gonna complain.

Jake Shields 29:01 Oh, sorry, I didn't realize I was doing that.

Joe Rogan 29:03 (laughs)

Jake Shields 29:03 Thanks for letting me know. I don't want to, uh-

Joe Rogan 29:06 (laughs)

Jake Shields 29:06 ... mess it up.

Joe Rogan 29:06 'Cause your- your nose is fucked, right? We were talking about that before the podcast.

Jake Shields 29:09 Yeah, I got the deviated septum.

Joe Rogan 29:10 Yeah.

Jake Shields 29:10 So I'm stuck, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 29:11 Yeah.

Jake Shields 29:12 ... I need to get this thing fixed.

Joe Rogan 29:13 I got mine fixed. It was the- the best fucking thing I've ever done. 'Cause mine was broken my whole life.

Jake Shields 29:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:17 I fell down a flight of stairs when I was, like, five years old and fucked my nose up. But I could never breathe out of it. It was always useless 'cause I pro- I probably broke it, like, a dozen times over my life.

Jake Shields 29:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:26 You know, most fighters, like, like, Justin Gaethje, you hear him talk. He talks like this.

Jake Shields 29:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Like, "It sounds like," "It sounds like there's," like there's no nose.

Jake Shields 29:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Like his nose is completely stuffed up.

Jake Shields 29:35 What was the recovery time on that, uh, for this?

Joe Rogan 29:37 Fucking nothing.

Jake Shields 29:38 Oh, fuck. I gotta go get that.

Joe Rogan 29:38 I was rolling in six weeks.

Jake Shields 29:40 Yeah, I gotta get that.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Yeah.

Jake Shields 29:41 'Cause it su- ... I think I'm just so used to it, I don't realize, but now that I'm gonna be able to breathe out of my nose, I've had it for a-

Joe Rogan 29:45 Oh, it changes everything. It's like (breathes deeply) . Look at this (breathes deeply) .

Jake Shields 29:48 Fresh air.

Joe Rogan 29:50 I would- I would go to yoga class, and they would say, "Breathe out of your nose." I'm like, "I can't. I'll die."

Jake Shields 29:54 Yeah, right?

Joe Rogan 29:54 Like, I literally- I'll die. I'll literally-

Jake Shields 29:56 That's why my- my friend gave me that thing for breathing out your nose. I'm like, "I can't use this. I can't-"

Joe Rogan 29:59 Yeah.

Jake Shields 30:00 "... breathe out of my nose."

Joe Rogan 30:01 Yeah. I mean, you could probably do it yourself. You could probably stick some sticks in there and pry it open.

Jake Shields 30:06 Really?

Joe Rogan 30:07 If you want to be gangster.

Jake Shields 30:07 Oh, I'm gonna do a home surgery now.

Joe Rogan 30:09 I remember I saw Josh Barnett fix someone's broken nose in a video. There's a video of Josh Barnett, and the guy gets his nose broken in training. And Josh Barnett, I think he stuck a pencil in there and popped his nose back into place.

Jake Shields 30:19 Really?

Joe Rogan 30:20 Yeah.

Jake Shields 30:20 I'm gonna hit up- I'm gonna hit up Josh Barnett. I have to get a number from you after we leave.

Joe Rogan 30:22 I think it's, like, right when it breaks though. I don't think you can do it, like, with yours.

Jake Shields 30:27 (sighs) Okay. I guess, I'll go to a doctor.

Joe Rogan 30:28 What is this? Is it ... Yeah. See, this dude just got his nose broken. And so Josh Park ... Oh, it says, "Strike force heavyweight." So this is, this is fairly old. So Josh is manipulating this dude's nose. Ah, look at him.

Narrator 30:41 It all came out and started pumping in the media that there's no-

Joe Rogan 30:46 What does it say?

Guest 30:46 I, I wanted to hear the thing. I, uh, I think he's just narrating over top of it.

Joe Rogan 30:51 But what is he saying, though?

Guest 30:52 I don't know.

Narrator 30:52 It said, "Smokers are being hospitalized at rates higher than any other demographic."

Joe Rogan 30:58 This is not the same-

Narrator 30:58 So the truth is-

Joe Rogan 31:00 That's not the same audio.

Guest 31:00 I ... By the way, I might have that.

Jake Shields 31:01 Looks like he's fixing something.

Joe Rogan 31:02 You got another fucking thing running-

Guest 31:04 (laughs) I think I got that Rumble video going on in the background.

Joe Rogan 31:05 Oh, is ... That's exactly what it is.

Guest 31:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:06 You've got that fucking snake venom video.

Guest 31:09 Well, I don't know where it is.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Play, play this, though. You got the wrong one.

Guest 31:12 Well, hold on then. Let me ... I gotta find it. I gotta find it.

Joe Rogan 31:15 You got three different browsers going on. (laughs)

Guest 31:18 (laughs) Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:18 The Rumble video.

Guest 31:20 Hold on. It is on this one.

Joe Rogan 31:21 That is definitely it.

Jake Shields 31:22 But yeah, that's, that's pretty savage.

Guest 31:25 There it is.

Joe Rogan 31:25 I mean, it makes sense, though. I mean, if you just broke it, he could kind of pop it back in place.

Jake Shields 31:30 Oh, yeah. I, I hate going to the doctor. I would do that.

Joe Rogan 31:31 Yeah. There it goes.

Narrator 31:35 Now, here's the thing. Try not to (beep) with it.

Jake Shields 31:40 What do you mean?

Narrator 31:41 Well, 'cause your ... It's gonna itch. It's gonna swell. It's gonna a lot of things and, uh-

Guest 31:45 He might have just done it.

Narrator 31:46 You're gonna wanna mess with it, and it's gonna-

Joe Rogan 31:47 Yeah.

Narrator 31:47 ... knock it out. See, it's straight right now. Try not to (beep) .

Joe Rogan 31:50 Yeah. So he ... In the beginning, he used a pencil or a pen.

Jake Shields 31:55 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Like a ballpoint pen. But here's what's funny. That shit ain't clean. He didn't sterilize that pen.

Narrator 32:00 Just relax the best you can.

Joe Rogan 32:02 He just stuffed that thing. You ever get staph inside your nose?

Jake Shields 32:04 Oh, that would be terrible.

Joe Rogan 32:05 Oh my God, you totally can.

Jake Shields 32:07 Staph is not good.

Joe Rogan 32:08 Have you had staph?

Jake Shields 32:09 Yeah. I had it, like, twice. It was terrible both times.

Joe Rogan 32:11 Yeah. It's not fun.

Jake Shields 32:13 In Thailand, I don't-

Joe Rogan 32:13 Did you, did you do the whole, uh, antibiotic course and everything for staph?

Jake Shields 32:16 Yeah. Like, in Thailand, like, my leg blew up so big, I think I would have, like, died if I hadn't gone in.

Joe Rogan 32:20 Oh, really?

Jake Shields 32:20 It was like ... Yeah, in the middle of the night, I had, like, cold sweats. I didn't know if I was gonna make it through the night. But you don't know how to, like ... In Thailand, it's not like you just call 911.

Joe Rogan 32:27 Right. How do you get, uh, antibiotics in Thailand?

Jake Shields 32:29 Uh, I took a scooter to the hospital and, uh-

Joe Rogan 32:31 Wow.

Jake Shields 32:32 It was actually great treatment. It was clean, cheap. They put me on an IV. The doctor knew a ... I'm sure they got a lot of staph there. He knew all about it.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Oh, yeah. I guarantee you they do, right?

Jake Shields 32:40 I was so impressed with the medical in Thailand.

Joe Rogan 32:42 (laughs)

Jake Shields 32:42 It was like 200 bucks.

Joe Rogan 32:43 Really?

Jake Shields 32:44 In the US, it was like $5,000 and way worse treatment.

Joe Rogan 32:47 At least.

Jake Shields 32:47 And it was like ... And it was terrible treatment.

Joe Rogan 32:48 Which, uh ... Where were you at?

Jake Shields 32:50 Uh, Phuket.

Joe Rogan 32:50 Oh, was it Tiger Muay Thai?

Jake Shields 32:52 Tiger Muay Thai, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:52 That's a great camp.

Jake Shields 32:54 Yeah. And I've also been by, uh, Mike Swick. I'm sure you know Mike Swick, right?

Joe Rogan 32:56 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jake Shields 32:57 He had a gym right next to us, so-

Joe Rogan 32:58 He lives there now, right?

Jake Shields 32:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:59 What, what happened with him? Why did he decide to move to, uh, Thailand?

Jake Shields 33:03 I think he just went there and loved it, and I mean-

Joe Rogan 33:05 Wow.

Jake Shields 33:05 ... decided to stay there. It's a pretty nice spot. I mean, have you been out there?

Joe Rogan 33:08 I have been to Thailand, but I haven't been to Phuket. I've been to Chiang Mai. I went with my family on a vacation.

Jake Shields 33:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:13 It was dope.

Jake Shields 33:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:14 I love the people there. They're so nice.

Jake Shields 33:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:17 Everyone's so friendly and it's like ... It's a really beautiful culture, and the foods ... I love spicy food. I love Thai food, so it's great.

Jake Shields 33:24 Yeah. And Thai people are just so friendly.

Joe Rogan 33:25 I know, right? It's like, isn't it amazing that a culture that dev- developed arguably the best stand-up striking style-

Jake Shields 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:33 ... also is so friendly?

Jake Shields 33:35 Oh, yeah. And the Thai guys that you're sparring with are, like, so nice.

Joe Rogan 33:38 Yeah.

Jake Shields 33:38 They're just chill. They love it when you're training with them, Americans.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 33:41 It's just like, uh, the nicest dudes.

Joe Rogan 33:43 They're so nice and they're also really good at not beating people up.

Jake Shields 33:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:47 Like, one of the things about sparring, like, you have to be really careful. Say, if you're an amateur and you spar with a professional, and you go to certain gyms, certain gyms, they'll hurt you.

Jake Shields 33:58 Oh, yeah. That's, that's ... Especially in boxing-

Joe Rogan 34:00 Yeah.

Jake Shields 34:00 ... they try to knock you out.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Oh, yeah. 100%.

Jake Shields 34:01 But the Thai guys will play with you. Unless you go hard on them-

Joe Rogan 34:03 Yeah.

Jake Shields 34:03 ... then they will try to kick your ass, which obviously makes sense.

Joe Rogan 34:06 Yeah. Yeah, if you go hard on them.

Jake Shields 34:08 But the-

Joe Rogan 34:08 But I remember y- first ... My first times in a boxing gym, they just tried to kill me.

Jake Shields 34:12 Oh, yeah. If ... Unless you're really good, you go in a boxing gym-

Joe Rogan 34:14 Yeah.

Jake Shields 34:14 ... they're gonna go out there and literally try to knock you out. That's what they just use people for.

Joe Rogan 34:17 It's cr- But it's crazy how many wars are in boxing gyms. I mean, so many videos of guys just flat out throwing 100% knocking people out. And they'll put that video-

Jake Shields 34:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:26 ... up on your Instagram. And you're like, "Hey, man, you shouldn't put that up." Like, "You look like a fucking asshole here." Like-

Jake Shields 34:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:31 "You shouldn't be sparring like this."

Jake Shields 34:33 Yeah. And, you know, posting knocking someone out is kinda messed up too, a little disrespectful.

Joe Rogan 34:36 Yeah. Well, it's also, it's like w- It's the culture of those gyms that's like ... There's so much bravado, machismo, whereas Thais, they, like, touch each other. Like, the-

Jake Shields 34:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:46 They spar so light.

Guest 34:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:48 It's really, it's really interesting, because it's not like it fucks with their timing, you know. It's like they fight so often that for them to spar and spar hard is ridiculous.

Jake Shields 34:58 Yeah. I think that's why they spar so light, 'cause they fight so often, so they spar, um ... So they spar super light, so it makes sense.

Joe Rogan 35:04 Yeah.

Jake Shields 35:05 So if you don't spar ... Fight all the time, you probably wanna spar hard occasionally. Because they fight, like, every two weeks or something, they can go out there-

Joe Rogan 35:10 Right.

Jake Shields 35:11 ... and just kinda touch each other when they spar.

Joe Rogan 35:12 Right.

Jake Shields 35:12 Even with no shin pads, sometimes they'll spar and just be kicking you, but not hard.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Yeah. No, it's kind of, it's kind of amazing, really. It's am- amazing that they figured out that style, because that's the best way to get technical. The best way to get technical is to not have, like, real consequences to your mistakes.

Jake Shields 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 So you don't, like, flinch and you're not worried about, like, the, the counters, you know.

Jake Shields 35:34 Yeah, no. The guys I train, I try to have them, like, you know, spar hard once a week, and then medium, and then have one time where it's just kind of play sparring, where they're touching, moving.

Joe Rogan 35:41 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 35:41 So they don't have to worry about getting hit. They can try all their new moves.

Joe Rogan 35:44 When you ... When a guy gets hurt in the gym, how much time do you tell him to take off?

Jake Shields 35:48 It depends on how hurt. Like, a minor concussion, at least a week. A bigger one, longer.

Joe Rogan 35:53 Yeah, but even a m- a ... Just a week, even for a minor concussion, and then you're gonna get hit in the head again. It's probably not good.

Jake Shields 36:01 I w- Yeah, that's why I said at least a week.

Joe Rogan 36:02 Yeah.

Jake Shields 36:02 I'd say maybe if it was, like, super minor, then maybe go back to, like, drill sparring after that. I wouldn't go back into heavy sparring.

Joe Rogan 36:07 Right.

Jake Shields 36:08 But no, hard concussion, a couple of months, I would say.

Joe Rogan 36:11 Yeah, at least.

Jake Shields 36:11 I think-

Joe Rogan 36:12 And then it's like how do you know if they're recovered? Do you ask them? It's like ...

Jake Shields 36:16 Yeah. I've seen a few people get really bad concussions that last for, like, years.

Joe Rogan 36:19 Oh, yeah.

Jake Shields 36:19 Have you ever seen that?

Joe Rogan 36:20 Oh, yeah, man.

Jake Shields 36:21 It's, it's kinda scary.

Joe Rogan 36:22 Well, there's a lot of people that were never s- the same again after a brutal fight.

Jake Shields 36:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:26 You know? I mean, we all know guys that were in wars and were never the same again.

Jake Shields 36:30 Yeah. It's, it's ... It sucks when you see that. I'm lucky. Going through, you know, 20 years fighting, I feel like, um, I mostly made it out, uh-Mostly made it out okay. Not 100%.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Mostly?

Jake Shields 36:38 Might be a little bit retarded, but...

Joe Rogan 36:40 (laughs)

Jake Shields 36:40 Can I say that word?

Joe Rogan 36:41 Yes. You just did.

Jake Shields 36:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 36:42 What do you think, like, if you ... What do you think was, like, your hardest fight? Like, where you took the most damage?

Jake Shields 36:47 exhales ] I've been in a lot of hard fights. Hen- Henderson dropped me twice in the first round, just floored me.

Joe Rogan 36:53 He hit so fucking hard, too.

Jake Shields 36:54 Yeah. My last fight, with Ray Cooper, a lot of damage, but I just mentally didn't really feel in that fight either. At that point, I was like ... I don't even know why I was fighting. It was just kind of like-

Joe Rogan 37:02 You were on the way out.

Jake Shields 37:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Yeah.

Jake Shields 37:04 Just, I lost motivation. And that's not the thing, after, like, when I got hit in that one, I didn't have any desire to, like, get back up. On Henderson, you get dropped, it's like, "I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna win this fight."

Joe Rogan 37:13 Right.

Jake Shields 37:13 You know? But when I realized I lost that desire, it's like, "Wait, why am I, why am I out here doing this still?"

Joe Rogan 37:18 Yeah. That's a dangerous thing for a fighter, right? When you stop having that kind of enthusiasm that got you into fighting in the first place.

Jake Shields 37:25 It's such an intense sport. You have to have 100% enthusiasm and motivation to do it. But the problem is, a lot of times, guys start making money later in their careers.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 37:33 And that's the same time they're losing motivation, but then they're finally making the good paydays. So it's, uh, it's tricky.

Joe Rogan 37:39 Yeah. Yeah. How did you find the PFL? Did you enjoy being over there?

Jake Shields 37:43 Yeah, no, I did. It's like, you know, they don't, like I said, they don't have the same hype as UFC, so that sucks, but they treated me good. You know, they pay well. It's, uh...

Joe Rogan 37:50 How are they affording to do what they're doing?

Jake Shields 37:52 Man, good question, 'cause it's, uh ... It's a great show for the up-and-comers, 'cause you can go and make a million dollars in, like, what, three, four fights?

Joe Rogan 37:58 Yeah.

Jake Shields 37:59 But, uh, you know, for the older guys, but the g- ... We ... They get a lot better contracts too, the guys that have been around.

Joe Rogan 38:03 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 38:03 So their pay is still pretty well. Some of the big names are getting paid pretty well on top of the, you know, million.

Joe Rogan 38:08 Yeah. I mean, they have Kayla Harrison. They have, you know ... They have good fighters.

Jake Shields 38:15 Anthony Pettis signed over there.

Joe Rogan 38:16 Yeah.

Jake Shields 38:17 Um, Roy MacDonald.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Mm-hmm. Yeah. They have good fighters.

Jake Shields 38:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:22 But it's just ... Do they still do that weird thing where they're ... They have, like, points, and you get p- a certain amount of points first?

Jake Shields 38:30 That's how ... Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 38:31 Finishing, and it moves you further ahead.

Jake Shields 38:33 That's how they score the bracket.

Joe Rogan 38:35 Yeah.

Jake Shields 38:35 'Cause they have, like, two, I think, what, two matches in the point system is who you fight next. It's a little weird, but ...

Joe Rogan 38:41 Why fuck with that?

Jake Shields 38:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:42 I don't understand.

Jake Shields 38:43 I think it's, I think it's pointless, but-

Joe Rogan 38:44 Why complicate things? 'Cause, like, I tried explaining to, to somebody, and they were like, "What?" I was like, "Yeah, I think you get, like, points if you win in the first round. If it goes to a decision, if it's a split decision, maybe you get less points." I don't know.

Jake Shields 38:56 I think their reasoning is to take out bias and to be completely fair, but I agree with you, I don't really like it.

Joe Rogan 39:00 Yeah.

Jake Shields 39:00 I think it's just kinda weird.

Joe Rogan 39:02 When you're, you're at that stage where you're not fighting anymore, and that's ... For someone who has fought since '99, that's a complicated stage in your life, where you're sort of like ... Y- you have to be all in to be a fighter, and then you realize at a certain point in time that you're not anymore. Like, how do you make that adjustment?

Jake Shields 39:22 Th- that is a good question, and that is extremely difficult, which I think is why a lot of athletes go on, like, past they wanna be fighting.

Joe Rogan 39:28 Yeah.

Jake Shields 39:28 'Cause it becomes, like, your identity.

Joe Rogan 39:29 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 39:29 It's all I know, is I get a fight, you know, and then I, like, train my ass off for, like, 10 weeks, fight, take a week off, party-

Joe Rogan 39:37 Yeah.

Jake Shields 39:37 ... back to the gym and try to schedule another fight. It's like your identity. And then you're like, "Oh, I gotta step away." And it's, um ... The fir- the first year was, was kinda tough, but now I've, you know, started getting into the business world. I've been fortunate to have, you know, good mentors around me. Like, I don't know if you know Tarec Sime? He was my trainer.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Jake Shields 39:51 He's a great guy. He, early on, was pushing me into business. I wasn't really listening, unfortunately, 'til, 'til later.

Joe Rogan 39:56 (laughs)

Jake Shields 39:57 (laughs) But then him and another guy I started working with, Derry Money- uh, Derek Moneyberg's an extremely rich dude. He, like, really has business figured out. So I'm like, all right, learning from people that, uh ... You gotta put energy into something else so you enjoy it.

Joe Rogan 40:08 Right. Like, what kind of business are you doing?

Jake Shields 40:11 Oh, man, I'm doing all kinds of stuff. I just launched, uh, my clothing company, American Jiu-Jitsu. Uh, American, uh, americanfight.com is the website. Um, been working with High Rollers.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Okay, the BJJ marijuana company?

Jake Shields 40:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the own- one of the owners there now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:24 Oh, you're one of the owners? That's lit.

Jake Shields 40:26 Yeah, yeah. So it's, I think I'm, uh, I think I'm getting a deal on Fight Pass.

Joe Rogan 40:28 Have you ever done a, a competition high?

Jake Shields 40:31 I did once, at the High Rollers-

Joe Rogan 40:32 Yeah? Yeah?

Jake Shields 40:33 ... against, uh, Diego.

Joe Rogan 40:34 What is it like, being barbecued?

Jake Shields 40:36 Terrifying.

Joe Rogan 40:36 (laughs)

Jake Shields 40:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:38 How often do you get high, first off?

Jake Shields 40:40 Like, once every couple months.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Oh, really?

Jake Shields 40:42 So for me, it was like, "Oh, crap, I smoked too much."

Joe Rogan 40:44 W- well, you're hanging out with the Diaz brothers though. Everybody would assume that you get high every day.

Jake Shields 40:49 Oh, yeah, everyone thinks I'm high all the time.

Joe Rogan 40:52 (laughs)

Jake Shields 40:52 (laughs) Nick, I think Nick smokes the most by far.

Joe Rogan 40:55 Does he?

Jake Shields 40:55 Yeah. Nate's not like ... He smokes, but not like, not like Nick. Nick will just put it down. He'll smoke you under the table.

Joe Rogan 41:01 I'm sure. Dude, a lot of people smoke me under the table. I've had people on this podcast that ... Like, Mike Tyson the other day, he smoked me under the table.

Jake Shields 41:09 Oh, you said Mike Tyson?

Joe Rogan 41:10 Yeah.

Jake Shields 41:10 I'll have to watch that one.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Snoop Dogg, he smoked me under the table. Wiz Khalifa. Um-

Jake Shields 41:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:15 ... Action Bronson, he smoked me under the table. Most people do. Most real solid smokers. The ... I smoke a lot, but I don't smoke a lot for a, a person who smokes a lot.

Jake Shields 41:23 Yeah, I'm a lightweight. The best though, we've ... Uh, when Nick Diaz and Snoop Doggy did an interview, and they're both just sitting there with their own blunts. They didn't wanna, like, pass them.

Joe Rogan 41:30 (laughs)

Jake Shields 41:30 I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that, that's totally Nick Diaz move."

Joe Rogan 41:32 Well, uh, b- Snoop Dogg rolled and smoked two blunts of his own during the podcast.

Jake Shields 41:37 inhalation ] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Pretty impressive.

Jake Shields 41:38 Animal.

Joe Rogan 41:39 I want to build a top. Just puts them down. Puts it down. But those gu- ... He's high all the time though. Did you see the video of him preparing for the Super Bowl? He's in that little Super Bowl set, and he's, he's smoking-

Jake Shields 41:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:49 ... while he's getting ready to go perform during the Super Bowl halftime. Snoop is smo- is smoking.

Jake Shields 41:53 Yeah, that's, that's awesome.

Joe Rogan 41:55 Animal.

Jake Shields 41:55 Yeah, me, I couldn't do it.

Joe Rogan 41:56 Savage.

Jake Shields 41:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:57 Just super human tolerance for marijuana. But he could just exist high as fuck and be cool, cool as a cucumber, like all day.

Jake Shields 42:06 You see there was a press conference from Nate's last fight. The press conference was getting super boring, so he just, like, lit up, started smoking mid-conference. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:13 (laughs) You could do that now. You know?

Jake Shields 42:15 He, he can at least.

Joe Rogan 42:16 Yeah.

Jake Shields 42:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:17 Well, back in the day, you know, marijuana was a real problem, 'cause guys would be like six weeks out, and, uh, that would be their last smoke, and then they'd still test positive.

Jake Shields 42:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:27 You know? Especially when you're cutting a lot of weight, and you're, you know, d- deleting all that fat from your body. And, for whatever reason, a lot of guys were testing positive that were like ... And so people were t- trying like seven, eight, nine, 10 weeks out.... and guys get real irritable. It just doesn't, it doesn't help your fighting. I don't think, like, smoking six weeks out or five weeks out... I think if you were high while you were fighting-

Jake Shields 42:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:52 ... then you're making an argument that it might be helping.

Jake Shields 42:55 Yeah. I mean, to me, I don't think it should ever have been banned, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 42:58 Yeah.

Jake Shields 42:58 ... I, I don't think it helped me when I was high. I think what... Nick Diaz may have fought high during, what was it? The Gomi fight? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:03 He did.

Jake Shields 43:04 That was... Didn't they try giving him a, they tried giving him a lifetime ban-

Joe Rogan 43:07 Ugh.

Jake Shields 43:07 ... for weed.

Joe Rogan 43:08 God. Well, the craziest one is when he fought Anderson, because Anderson tested positive for steroids. They banned Anderson for a short amount of time. Nick tested positive for a-

Jake Shields 43:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:19 ... tiny amount of marijuana, tiny amount, and they banned him for fucking two years.

Jake Shields 43:23 Yeah. I think it was five years. Maybe that got reduced. I think they gave him-

Joe Rogan 43:25 Yes.

Jake Shields 43:25 ... a five-year, then he, like, fought it and it reduced it to two.

Joe Rogan 43:28 Yeah.

Jake Shields 43:29 Yeah, and I was at that hearing with him in the Nevada. It was this girl wanted to ban him for life, and it turned out-

Joe Rogan 43:33 (sighs)

Jake Shields 43:33 ... she was from Stockton, so it had to be some kind of resentment of, like, he's from the same town, but bigger than her. You could just tell it was that.

Joe Rogan 43:40 You think that's what it was? That he was bigger-

Jake Shields 43:41 She just seemed like... I don't know. She just seemed, like, resentful because he was from Stockton and famous and, like-

Joe Rogan 43:46 Well, I think it's-

Jake Shields 43:46 ... she wanted to be big.

Joe Rogan 43:47 ... I think, I, I don't know if it's that, but I think there's definitely a power issue with those folks, with people that have... It's like some people just don't make good judges. They're, they're not good at an athletic commission. They're not, they're... Some people just should not have the kinda power that they have.

Jake Shields 44:03 100% agree.

Joe Rogan 44:04 They just abuse it.

Jake Shields 44:04 Like, judges are a good one. Some of these guys, they know nothing about fighting, and-

Joe Rogan 44:07 Yeah.

Jake Shields 44:07 ... why would you be a judge, something you don't know about?

Joe Rogan 44:09 (smacks lips) Yeah, I meant judges in terms of, like, legal judges.

Jake Shields 44:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:12 But yeah, judges for fighting, too. Yeah, it's, um... (sighs) That's a sore spot, the judges for fighting.

Jake Shields 44:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:19 God, there's... There's a good o- there's good ones. There's definitely good ones. But my God, there's some bad ones out there, too. You know, did you see the A gay- AJ McKee, uh, Pitbull fight this past weekend?

Jake Shields 44:28 Yeah, no, I missed that whole card, unfortunately, but-

Joe Rogan 44:30 Yeah, I watched highlights of it. I'm gonna have to go back and watch the whole fight and score it and see what people think.

Jake Shields 44:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:35 Because there's a lot of people that think that was a bullshit decision, so...

Jake Shields 44:38 Yeah, I've heard it was all over the place. I have some friends who are training with AJ, so-

Joe Rogan 44:42 Yeah.

Jake Shields 44:42 ... he's obviously biased, but he said it was a close fight.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Well, I mean, it was close enough. I mean, it was definitely close. It was a five-round decision. But, you know, he, he got, he did score takedowns, but Pitbull did almost catch him in a submission. It's like...

Jake Shields 44:57 So yeah, some of them are hard to judge, kinda like the-

Joe Rogan 44:59 Yeah.

Jake Shields 44:59 ... um, the Sterling one and Sterling/Yan one.

Joe Rogan 45:01 Yeah.

Jake Shields 45:01 That one's like, is this wh- basically comes down to who won that first round.

Joe Rogan 45:04 (smacks lips) It does, but doesn't... List- listen, when Sterling takes your back and has your back for the entire fucking round, and comes really close to getting chokes in, and is punching you the entire round, complete back control.

Jake Shields 45:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:17 When is that a 10-8?

Jake Shields 45:19 That's-

Joe Rogan 45:19 I wanna know when that's a 10-8.

Jake Shields 45:20 Oh, yeah, it's tough. And that's there's no-

Joe Rogan 45:21 Yeah.

Jake Shields 45:21 ... fair, uh, judging criteria.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Because I, I watched him take his back and, first of all, I was s- stunned at how strong his back control is. I always knew it was good.

Jake Shields 45:31 Yup.

Joe Rogan 45:31 I mean, it was amazing against Sandhagen when he took Sandhagen's back and strangled him.

Jake Shields 45:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:35 But to wa- Yan, no one has ever controlled Yan on the ground like that before.

Jake Shields 45:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:40 No one.

Jake Shields 45:41 Yeah, when, if you're a good body triangle rider and you lock it, it's so hard to get out of, and I think-

Joe Rogan 45:45 He's so good.

Jake Shields 45:46 ... Yan didn't really re- Yan didn't really know how to work to unlock that, uh, body triangle.

Joe Rogan 45:49 I was so impressed with Aljamain. I'm so, I was so impressed with his back, back-taking and his back control, 'cause I know how good Yan is on the ground. He's a fucking beast, man.

Jake Shields 45:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:59 No one's been able to control him on the ground. The fact that Aljamain was able to get him to the ground repeatedly-

Jake Shields 46:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:03 ... and take his back repeatedly, I was very impressed with that.

Jake Shields 46:06 Yeah, no, Sterling's an amazing fighter. I just think because the way the last one went-

Joe Rogan 46:09 Right.

Jake Shields 46:09 ... a lot of people didn't really like him. But I have him, uh, he trains at Kotor where I'm training people, so I have him spar the f- 35-pounders I train all the time, and he's, uh, definitely the real deal.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Oh, he's the real deal. His, his jiu-jitsu is off the charts. I think the, I think with a, with a situation like that first fight, first of all, it was 100% an illegal blow, 100% he should be disqualified, no ifs, ands, or buts. That was a fucking knee, a hard knee to the face of a-

Jake Shields 46:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:33 ... downed opponent, and he was fucked up from that. That said, I don't think that's how you could win a title. I think you could lose-

Jake Shields 46:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:39 You should be able to lose a title that way. I don't think you should be able to win a title that way.

Jake Shields 46:43 Yeah, no, it made it, like, made it weird. And like, I, I even like Sterling, I'm friends with him-

Joe Rogan 46:46 I love him.

Jake Shields 46:46 ... but it's one of those things. You watch it, you're like, "Oh, that's kind of a crappy way to win."

Joe Rogan 46:49 You... Well, win a fight? Maybe. Win a title?

Jake Shields 46:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:53 No. Like, win by disqualification? Yes, 'cause you get your win bonus.

Jake Shields 46:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:57 Okay. But win a world championship? No, you have to win that.

Jake Shields 47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:01 You have to win that. You have to beat a guy.

Jake Shields 47:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:03 That's not beating a guy. That's the guy fucking up and losing his title.

Jake Shields 47:08 Yeah, 'cause even though I, like, you know, he's a friend of mine, I respect him, I didn't really look at my, look at him as a champ until he beat Yan.

Joe Rogan 47:12 He-

Jake Shields 47:12 Now you can say he's the champ.

Joe Rogan 47:13 Yup, he's the champ now.

Jake Shields 47:14 At least, at least in my eyes.

Joe Rogan 47:15 Mm.

Jake Shields 47:16 I think most people's eyes.

Joe Rogan 47:17 Listen, he, without a doubt, had the best performance ever against Yan.

Jake Shields 47:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:21 And he opened up a lot of people's eyes, 'cause a lot of people did not... Th- they looked at Yan as being complete.

Jake Shields 47:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:26 His ground game is complete, his takedowns, his trips, his striking game is off the charts. And everybody was like, "Look, this guy's a fucking terror."

Jake Shields 47:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:34 But Aljamain found the kryptonite.

Jake Shields 47:36 Yeah, I mean, look at his, uh, record. He's fought some savages. I can't remember exactly who, but I remember looking at it being like, "Oh, he's the, he's the real deal."

Joe Rogan 47:42 (smacks lips) Oh, he's, he, he fucked up a lot of people, man. Like, if you look at what... I mean, p- you, if we talk about Pi- Petr Yan, look at how he knocked out, um, Uriah, beat up Jose Aldo. Like, he's-

Jake Shields 47:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:56 ... he's beat the fuck out of some people. He's, he's a fucking bad man. He's a dangerous dude.

Jake Shields 48:01 Yeah, no, it's, uh... There's, uh, P- Yan and, and Sterling. That, that's, uh... 35s is an exciting weight, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:07 Fuck yeah.

Jake Shields 48:08 I just signed one of my 35-pounders to the UFC, uh, Javed Basharat. You know him?

Joe Rogan 48:11 No, I don't.

Jake Shields 48:12 He's, uh, I think 2 and 0 now. He was the one that got called a terrorist at the, um... What show was that? Like the Kinder series? Some guy, they called him a terrorist at weigh-ins, which was stupid, but it-

Joe Rogan 48:22 Called him a terrorist?

Jake Shields 48:22 ... it went viral. 'Cause he's a Afghan.

Joe Rogan 48:24 Oh.

Jake Shields 48:25 So, completely stupid, but it made it go viral, like, in the Middle East and everywhere, so got him a lot of attention.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Well, there you go.

Jake Shields 48:30 And then he beat the crap outta the guy, so...

Joe Rogan 48:31 Um, so you're coaching a lot of guys now? Is that...

Jake Shields 48:34 No, just small, a small group. I'm very selective who I train, 'cause a lot of you guys-

Joe Rogan 48:37 How do you decide?

Jake Shields 48:39 Just guys I like that train hard that I wanna work with.

Joe Rogan 48:41 So it's like, so you're in the gym, you're training, and you see guys, and do they come to you and ask you for help? Or...

Jake Shields 48:48 It's generally the guys that ask me. I, I, I help a lot of guys a tiny bit, but I wouldn't say I'm their trainer, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:52 Right, you just help them a little bit.

Jake Shields 48:53 Like, I might go show Francis Ngannou a move, but I'm not his trainer. There's-

Joe Rogan 48:56 Right, right.

Jake Shields 48:56 ... guys like that, you know? But there's a, you know, five or six guys that I put a lot of energy into.

Joe Rogan 49:00 And when you put energy into... Do you have a contract with these guys, or you just-

Jake Shields 49:03 I don't.

Joe Rogan 49:03 You don't?

Jake Shields 49:03 I'm just doing it word of mouth. If they don't w- if they don't want me, they can, uh, they can get rid of me. It's-

Joe Rogan 49:07 And do they pay you?

Jake Shields 49:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:09 Do they give you a percentage?

Jake Shields 49:10 Yeah, it's us- it's not like it... It's not much. It's small. There's not a ton of money in training, but luckily, that's not my, uh, primary, uh, method of making money. I do it because I love it. Keeps me involved in the sport. I go out there. When you're cornered, it almost feels like you fight.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Right, the excitement level and-

Jake Shields 49:23 And you're just attached to these guys.

Joe Rogan 49:25 Right.

Jake Shields 49:25 It's like they become like your brothers, you know, when you bleed together, sweat together, it's like a brotherhood. I mean, you know just from jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 49:31 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 49:31 Imagine when you're out there, like, actually fighting. It's like take that-

Joe Rogan 49:33 Yeah.

Jake Shields 49:33 ... and magnify it by 10.

Joe Rogan 49:35 Yeah. Well, that's what Garry Tonon said. You know, Garry Tonon, when he made the jump-

Jake Shields 49:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:39 ... from just straight grappling to MMA, he was like, "The thrill of going out there and knowing that you're putting it all on the line and that you could get yourself knocked out."

Jake Shields 49:49 Mm-hmm. You can get hurt and-

Joe Rogan 49:50 Yeah.

Jake Shields 49:51 ... and embarrassed. People don't think about that. You have-

Joe Rogan 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 49:52 ... millions of people might be watching you.

Joe Rogan 49:54 Yeah.

Jake Shields 49:54 Do you want to get, like, knocked out, you know, covered in blood in front of all your friends, fans? It's, uh, it's a lot of stress going in there. So, after going back to grapple that, it's funny when you see people nervous at grappling shows, you're like, "Yeah, try fighting in front of 60,000 people in Toronto." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:07 Right, that's right. Yeah, you fought in the biggest-

Jake Shields 50:10 You commentated that one, right?

Joe Rogan 50:10 Yeah. I was-

Jake Shields 50:11 That was wild, right?

Joe Rogan 50:11 It was wild being there 'cause I remember it was a giant in... It was the Rogers Centre, right?

Jake Shields 50:16 Yeah, yeah, the Rogers Centre.

Joe Rogan 50:17 In Toronto.

Jake Shields 50:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:18 And it was so big that there was a hotel-

Jake Shields 50:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:21 ... inside of the arena. And so people-

Jake Shields 50:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:24 ... in their hotel rooms were looking out their windows, watching the fights.

Jake Shields 50:28 Yeah, being the main event of that was just wild. Walking out, you look up, you're like, "What the hell?"

Joe Rogan 50:32 The fucking screens alone were so big.

Jake Shields 50:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:35 And the roars of the fights, like when someone would, would score, uh, like a knockdown or something like that-

Jake Shields 50:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:41 ... like, "Raah."

Jake Shields 50:43 Yeah, that was still the wildest moment of my career. That was like, that was nuts.

Joe Rogan 50:46 Yeah, that was nuts. Is that... Like, what d- d- do f- certain fights stand out when you, you think about your career where you're like, "I can't fucking believe th- that fight"?

Jake Shields 50:57 A little bit. I mean, I had a lot of big, like... I looked, looked at my record and I'm like, "Holy crap, I fought the who's who of MMA." You know?

Joe Rogan 51:03 Yeah.

Jake Shields 51:03 Looking back, like, remember the Rumble in the Rock tournament? I beat, like, what? There was, there was three, uh, two... I fought, was it Yushin Okami and Carlos Condit on the same night, like two just complete savages.

Joe Rogan 51:13 (laughs)

Jake Shields 51:13 And won both of those.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Yeah.

Jake Shields 51:14 I was just wrecked after. My friends were like, "Yeah, we're gonna go rage." I'm just like, "Oh, man, I wanna go home, but all right, I guess I'll, uh, go rage."

Joe Rogan 51:20 Did you go out?

Jake Shields 51:21 Oh, of course.

Joe Rogan 51:22 Oh, that's hilarious.

Jake Shields 51:23 Like, cuts all over my head, body sore, shin swollen up.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Y- you submitted Henderson in his prime.

Jake Shields 51:30 Yeah, I didn't, didn't submit him, but I dominated that fight.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Oh, that's right, that's right.

Jake Shields 51:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:33 You didn't submit him. Who submitted Henderson? Uh...

Jake Shields 51:36 I don't-

Joe Rogan 51:36 Did somebody catch Henderson?

Jake Shields 51:38 I don't... uh, I can't think of.

Joe Rogan 51:39 What am I thinking of?

Jake Shields 51:41 Yeah, he's a hard guy to submit.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Am I thinking of Robbie Lawler? Did you submit Robbie Lawler with the guillotine?

Jake Shields 51:46 I submitted Robbie Lawler, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:46 That's what it is.

Jake Shields 51:46 That was Yeah, that one was awesome too, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:49 Yeah. That was awesome. Yeah, man, you really did fight the fucking who's who.

Jake Shields 51:53 Yeah, it's... I did not have a padded record. (laughs) That's why... I wish I had a coach or manage me- manager guiding me, being like, "Maybe we should take some easier fights."

Joe Rogan 52:00 You beat Tyron Woodley by decision.

Jake Shields 52:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:02 You fought Georges St-Pierre for the title in one of the biggest-

Jake Shields 52:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:05 ... crowds of all time.

Jake Shields 52:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:07 Yeah, you-

Jake Shields 52:07 Damian, Damien Maia.

Joe Rogan 52:09 That's right, yeah. Damn, dude, you had a wild-ass career.

Jake Shields 52:14 Yeah, it's pretty wild. I remember like, I don't know, six months ago or something, I went and looked through it and I was looking for the guys I fought, and I'm like, "Holy crap, I didn't get, like..."

Joe Rogan 52:20 (laughs)

Jake Shields 52:20 I don't think I fought anyone... Like, the worst guy I fought would be, like, 16-3 or something.

Joe Rogan 52:24 No, you had wars, man.

Jake Shields 52:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:26 You had fucking wars. You really did. You had a lot of wars.

Jake Shields 52:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:31 Yeah.

Jake Shields 52:33 Yeah, it's... Looking back, it's kind of wild. I'm like, "Wait, I did this for 20 years?" I would go in the cage and, like, try to beat the crap out of some of the best fighters (laughs) in the world.

Joe Rogan 52:39 Does it fee- seem strange now? You're three years removed. Like, does it seem, like, looking back, like, "What w-"

Jake Shields 52:46 It seems a little wild 'cause when you're doing it, it just seems so natural, but it's still... I mean, part of me misses it, of- of course. That's why I'm training guys-

Joe Rogan 52:52 Just the thrill of it and...

Jake Shields 52:54 Yeah, but that's what the training is, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:55 Yeah.

Jake Shields 52:55 ... tr- when you're... Corning a fighter is very close. Not quite. Nothing that'll match it, but it's like you get that same adrenaline 'cause I come so close to these guys in training.

Joe Rogan 53:03 So, you have your business with, like, your clothing line.

Jake Shields 53:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:06 And do you think you'll ever open up a gym?

Jake Shields 53:09 I th- I was thinking about it, but it's, like, a lot of work to run a gym, and it's not a ton of money for having to, like, sit around and... I would do it, but I would, I would have to have a good partner and other people that help me teach 'cause I enjoy teaching, but I don't... I'm not like, uh, John Danaher where I wanna teach five times a day.

Joe Rogan 53:23 Right. He's a weird guy, right?

Jake Shields 53:26 Right?

Joe Rogan 53:26 I mean, uh, I mean weird in the-

Jake Shields 53:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:28 ... best possible way.

Jake Shields 53:29 Oh, 100%. Uh, he... I, I love John, but he's definitely an odd character.

Joe Rogan 53:32 He's so odd. Good luck finding one of those. I was talking to Gordon about that. I was like, "Good luck finding another one of those." You got a guy who is a philosophy professor-

Jake Shields 53:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:42 ... from Columbia who falls in love with jujitsu to the point where he lives in the gym, sleeps on the mats-

Jake Shields 53:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:49 ... trains all day, and he's not self obsessed because he's injured. Like d-

Jake Shields 53:56 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 53:56 Like, he... For people who don't know, John Danaher has, like, serious injuries. Like, he had his hip replaced.

Jake Shields 54:02 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 54:02 I think he's gonna have his knee replaced. He's just not sure when.

Jake Shields 54:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:05 And a lot of that is from rugby before he ever did jujitsu.

Jake Shields 54:09 Yeah. Oh, yeah, I was training in New York when he had the hip replacement and the knee, and he was just in absolute pain, you could tell, but he's a stoic guy. He would, you know, limp in with a cane.

Joe Rogan 54:17 Mm-hmm.

Jake Shields 54:17 He couldn't show the matches, so he would, like, sit there and point with, like, a, a staff.

Joe Rogan 54:21 Yeah.

Jake Shields 54:21 He would make, like, Garry show the moves, and then there was a couple month period I think where he was going through the pain where sometimes he would just go off on Garry. I'm like, "Oh, poor Garry, he's d- showing it wrong." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:30 Wow.

Jake Shields 54:30 But man, yeah, he's a smart guy.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Oh, he's a genius. It's just very rare to get someone of that intellectual, that high-level intellectual capacity that gets obsessed with jujitsu and martial arts in general. Like, when I found out that he was Garry Tonon's striking coach as well as his jujitsu coach, I was like, "Holy fuck, that's insane."

Jake Shields 54:49 Yeah, when I started talking to him about striking one day, I was in shock. He was showing me, like, different boxers and kickboxers and, like, showing their offense, their defense. You're like, "Wow, this guy is like an encyclopedia." He's, uh... He knows everything. He did the same thing with wrestlers.

Joe Rogan 55:01 Yeah.

Jake Shields 55:02 Like, he'll name, like, some sec- uh, Iranian wrestler and he'll, like, know what he does. It's like, "Wow, this is just insane."

Joe Rogan 55:07 Yeah, his knowledge base is spectacular. And they say that's all he does. Like, he'll, he'll g- t- teach all day, and then he'll go watch videos all night.

Jake Shields 55:15 Yup, he would t- in between classes, he'd be watching videos, then back to a class. I don't know how he does it.

Joe Rogan 55:20 I mean, what are the odd, I mean, how many of those guys are out there? There's no one out-

Jake Shields 55:24 One, I think just one-

Joe Rogan 55:25 Right.

Jake Shields 55:26 ... just him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:26 I mean, oth- oth- other than him you've got like Firas Zahabi, who's also-

Jake Shields 55:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:29 ... a brilliant guy, who's also fascinated with the sport and can give you a lot of feedback, and, um, can name a lot of different styles of striking in jujitsu but ...

Jake Shields 55:39 Yeah, no, there, I mean, there's a lot of brilliant guys out there. But there's no one like John, that just completely, completely dedicates his life. No family, just all he does is watch tape, train people and, uh ...

Joe Rogan 55:47 How is that po- like, w- how is that possible?

Jake Shields 55:50 Yeah, it makes no sense, his intelligence level too.

Joe Rogan 55:52 Right, like, how is he not bored?

Jake Shields 55:54 Yeah, that's what I'm like, that's what I'm like, "Why are you teaching so many classes?"

Joe Rogan 55:57 Yeah.

Jake Shields 55:57 You think he would just do the pro team now. He's rich now, or making good money.

Joe Rogan 55:59 Right. I, he, it has nothing to do with it, he wears rash guards everywhere.

Jake Shields 56:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:04 The guy, like, I mean, I don't even know if he has a car. Does he have a car?

Jake Shields 56:07 He finally bought one-

Joe Rogan 56:08 Oh.

Jake Shields 56:08 ... last time I was out here. I was terrified getting in the car with him 'cause he'd had it like three days.

Joe Rogan 56:11 (laughs)

Jake Shields 56:12 But, but he drove really well, I guess he's an intelligent guy, I was impressed. I'm like, "Do you want me to drive, John?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:16 Ah, what did, what kind of car did he get?

Jake Shields 56:18 He got, um, what was that, a Jee ... Oh, man, I can't think of what it was, um ...

Joe Rogan 56:23 A Jeep?

Jake Shields 56:23 No, not a Jeep, it's like ... Dang it, I'm having a brain freeze. It's these, uh, it's like a semi-fancy car but not super fancy.

Joe Rogan 56:30 Oh. So he's just out here?

Jake Shields 56:33 Yeah, probably like a $50,000, $60,000 car, so nice but-

Joe Rogan 56:35 I'm very happy he's out here. I'm very happy he's out here. It adds to f- to Austin.

Jake Shields 56:40 Yeah, so much. It's like, I'll, I'll, I visit Austin a lot regardless but now I have an excuse to come out and train with him and Gordon and Garry, just, uh, the best jujitsu guys.

Joe Rogan 56:48 Were you training with them in Puerto Rico at all?

Jake Shields 56:50 No, I never made it to Puerto Rico.

Joe Rogan 56:52 No?

Jake Shields 56:52 I hear it was terrible out there.

Joe Rogan 56:54 (laughs)

Jake Shields 56:54 (laughs) Other than Gordon, he loved it, but everyone else thought it was terrible.

Joe Rogan 56:57 Why did they think it was terrible?

Jake Shields 56:59 I think there was just nothing to do. They were like a gated community. It's all dudes in their 20s, single, and you're out in a gated community where nothing's going on.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Hmm.

Jake Shields 57:07 Like, imagine that, and it does not sound too fun.

Joe Rogan 57:09 Yeah, it doesn't sound like a good time unless you're gay.

Jake Shields 57:11 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:12 (laughs)

Jake Shields 57:12 Then it'd be the best time. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:13 Yeah, that'd be amazing.

Jake Shields 57:15 There's a lot of dudes-

Joe Rogan 57:15 But if ... Yeah, a lot of dudes hugging each other. So they were in a gated community, it w- were they close to the beach at least?

Jake Shields 57:21 I think so, I think it was nice-

Joe Rogan 57:22 Yeah.

Jake Shields 57:22 ... but it was just boring. I think that's what helped lead to the split of the team which is very unfortunate.

Joe Rogan 57:27 What did, what caused that? Do you know?

Jake Shields 57:29 I, I, a little bit but I don't wanna go and-

Joe Rogan 57:31 Yeah.

Jake Shields 57:31 ... air, uh, air people's dramas.

Joe Rogan 57:32 Yeah.

Jake Shields 57:32 I'm, I'm neutral, 'cause I'm friends and everyone both sides, but-

Joe Rogan 57:34 It's a bummer.

Jake Shields 57:35 Yeah, it's a total bummer.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Yeah.

Jake Shields 57:36 'Cause I like, I like everyone involved and I tried, uh, I tried talking to, "Hey is there any way this could be resolved?" And it was just like, "No." Like, all right.

Joe Rogan 57:42 That's crazy. It's crazy that they're all out here too.

Jake Shields 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:45 They all came to the same city and then they split up.

Jake Shields 57:47 Yeah, the B Team, the name's hilarious. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:49 Very funny. Well, they're funny.

Jake Shields 57:50 They've embraced it.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Craig's hilarious. He's a funny motherfucker.

Jake Shields 57:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:53 You know. And, and Nicky Rodriguez is a fucking freak athlete. That guy.

Jake Shields 58:00 You see his brother just winning-

Joe Rogan 58:01 Yes.

Jake Shields 58:01 ... the ADCC trials and like-

Joe Rogan 58:02 Yeah.

Jake Shields 58:02 ... I think less than a year of training too. It's like-

Joe Rogan 58:04 Amazing.

Jake Shields 58:04 ... talk about that family.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Amazing. Well, that's real. You know, there's, that's genetics.

Jake Shields 58:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:09 There are people that are just, they have amazing g- ... And then they'll have a background in something else, like maybe gymnastics, or f- you know, some other explosive sport and it translates very easily-

Jake Shields 58:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:21 ... to MMA or jujitsu.

Jake Shields 58:22 Yeah, no, those guys just, they picked it up so quick.

Joe Rogan 58:24 Yeah.

Jake Shields 58:24 Nicky Rod, I think he'd been training a year when he took third at Abu- or second in Abu Dhabi.

Joe Rogan 58:27 Wow, really?

Jake Shields 58:28 And then his brother won the trials. And the trials now are like 250 people per weight. It was unreal.

Joe Rogan 58:34 That really is crazy. But it's, it makes sense because it's such a athletic pursuit, especially no gi. No gi is so athletic.

Jake Shields 58:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:43 It's, it's ... Marcelo Garcia was talking about that, he was saying the difference between gi and no gi is that your athletic ability has so much more of an impact on no gi.

Jake Shields 58:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's why a lot of like older people and stuff prefer the gi, it slows down the pace.

Joe Rogan 58:57 Sure, definitely. It's just-

Jake Shields 58:59 You ever train with a gi or you must all no gi?

Joe Rogan 59:00 I train gi and no gi, yeah. Um, you definitely feel like things are ... Uh, the thing I don't like about the gi is like the weird stuff, when people try to choke you with their clothes. Like, they try to like wrap-

Jake Shields 59:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:16 ... their lapel around your neck and like ... Okay, are we bringing weapons