Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #122 with Jake Shields

Joe sits down with Jake Shields: a veteran mixed martial artist and grappler who competed for multiple organizations, among them the UFC, PFL, and Strikeforce.

Joe RoganhostJake ShieldsguestGuestguest
Jun 27, 20243h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:51

    Reunion, podcast origins, and a banned COVID ‘snake venom’ documentary

    1. NA

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) So, do you know- (laughs)

    4. JS

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      We just ... Everybody keeps j- ... Hello, Jake Shields. Good to see you, bro.

    6. JS

      How's it going, Joe? Great to be on your show.

    7. JR

      Great to have you.

    8. JS

      Known you for, like, what? 15 years?

    9. JR

      Long fucking time, brother.

    10. JS

      And then, uh-

    11. JR

      Maybe more. It might be like 20.

    12. JS

      Yeah, right, 20.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. JS

      I remember seeing your podcast, um, when it first started. You were like a small little-

    15. JR

      I know.

    16. JS

      ... fringe show-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. JS

      ... for like, uh, potheads, fight people, comedians.

    19. JR

      Well, I waited until it got real big to bring you on.

    20. JS

      Yeah, so now-

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. JS

      Oh, no, no, no pressure now. (laughs)

    23. JR

      So, we were talking about this, uh, what is it called? This C-OVID documentary-

    24. NA

      Watch-

    25. JR

      ... that I think is made by the Russians.

    26. NA

      Watch the water.

    27. JS

      It's definitely true, by the way.

    28. JR

      Watch the water.

    29. JS

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      Definitely true. So, what are they trying to say? There's snake venom?

  2. 2:51 – 4:37

    Platform censorship, pharma influence, and Elon/Twitter ownership questions

    1. JR

      The, the thing is like, they've, they've cracked down so hard on any, anything that is against the COVID narrative. That's, that's what's going on with that.

    2. JS

      Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of crazy how they'll ban e- even stuff that's true. I mean, stuff like-

    3. JR

      Yes.

    4. JS

      ... this is obviously probably not true, but things that we now know for a fact are true ... Guys like Alex, um, Bernstein. You've had him on your show.

    5. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, Alex Bernstein.

    6. JS

      Yeah, he got, he got banned for putting-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. JS

      ... stuff that was true just ahead of the curve.

    9. JR

      100% true.

    10. JS

      Y-

    11. JR

      Ahead of the curve. If you put it out now, there wouldn't even be a debate about it.

    12. JS

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Like, all the things that he said about, like, masks not working, about how people that are vaccinated can still spread it. It's ... The problem is that 75% of all television advertising, 75%-

    14. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      ... of it is ma- is from pharmaceutical companies.

    16. JS

      Yup. And, uh, you know who owns, uh, Twitter? Pharmaceutical companies and Vanguard and BlackRock and ... (laughs)

    17. JR

      Well, also, like, the Saudi family, right? Isn't that like one of the royal families? 'Cause they were tweeting-

    18. JS

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      ... with Elon when-

    20. JS

      You see-

    21. JR

      ... Elon was trying to buy it.

    22. JS

      You see E- Elon's response? It was like-

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. JS

      ... "Oh, yeah. So what's, uh, what's Saudis," uh, something like, "opinion on, uh, free-"

    25. JR

      Free speech.

    26. JS

      "... free ... " Yeah.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. JS

      I'm pretty sure that was a jab at the journalist they, uh, chopped up alive in Turkey.

    29. JR

      Yeah. Jamal Khashoggi.

    30. JS

      Yeah.

  3. 4:37 – 6:18

    Doping in early MMA: steroids, USADA ‘melting,’ and beating tests

    1. JR

      Jake, you started MMA and, and, and com- competition jujitsu in the days where ... rampant steroid use.

    2. JS

      Yeah, everywhere.

    3. JR

      I mean, it was everywhere.

    4. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      Like, in the early days of fighting, like, when you were first ... Like, what, what year was your first MMA fight?

    6. JS

      I think '99.

    7. JR

      '99.

    8. JS

      Yeah. Surprising that we were always in the teams that were always like ... not like huge anti, but we were just never doing it, you know?

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. JS

      With Nick, Nate, Gil, all those guys.

    11. JR

      Right. Those are some of the few guys that didn't.

    12. JS

      Mm-hmm. You know, like in the sport, it's true. Most people are doing it, and it made it hard not to 'cause you know everyone's doing it. It's like-

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. JS

      ... going off, and it made it so hard. There's definitely less now, but to me, I think there's still some out there. You see some of these guys just looking so jacked, such-

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      ... good shape. I have no idea what they're doing to beat the tests, but seems like some guys are.

    17. JR

      Well, I mean, obviously there's some genetic freaks, but I think there's also some things that you can get away with.

    18. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      You know? I think micro-dosing testosterone, you could probably get away with.

    20. JS

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      There's probably a bunch of different peptides that are still legal that are effective.

    22. JS

      Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. Genetics, but then you'll see a team that has like 10 guys that are all jacked. It's like, hmm.

    23. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    24. JS

      (laughs) Not gonna say any teams, but-

    25. JR

      Well, what's crazy is when USADA came along, how many people melted.

    26. JS

      Mm-hmm. You know, exactly, 'cause they melted, but you look at them now, and now they're blown back up.

    27. JR

      Yeah. They figured it out. They've worked out-

    28. JS

      But-

    29. JR

      ... the cycles.

    30. JS

      That's kind of what I think, but I have no inside information, so I'm just speculating.

  4. 6:18 – 8:00

    Retirement realities and the economics of non-UFC leagues (PFL, Bellator)

    1. JR

      Have you fucked around with anything? Have you tried anything?

    2. JS

      Not really.

    3. JR

      Now, not really is a weird word. (laughs)

    4. JS

      Well, like diuretics, uh, (laughs) I'm getting older now, so-

    5. JR

      To make money?

    6. JS

      ... I think it might be about time to not competing.

    7. JR

      Are you done competing, totally?

    8. JS

      Well, I'd still compete in jujitsu-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      ... but most likely fighting. I mean-

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. JS

      ... if someone offers me a shit load of money for another name guy, I'll do it. But I'm not gonna fight, like, some 25 and 0 Russian that no one's ever heard of-

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. JS

      ... that they're trying to build up off of me.

    15. JR

      Right. When was the last time you fought? How many years ago?

    16. JS

      Like, three years ago.

    17. JR

      Three years ago?

    18. JS

      And, you know, retirement is, uh-

    19. JR

      Was that PFL?

    20. JS

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      Yeah?

    22. JS

      Yeah. Lost my-

    23. JR

      How was-

    24. JS

      ... last fight. So kind of-

    25. JR

      How was that pl- competing over there?

    26. JS

      I mean, it was good. They, they pay good, but they just don't have the same kind of, uh, promo and attention.

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. JS

      It's just, uh, you know, some of these shows pay better than the UFC for most people, but they don't build the hype. So it sucks with fighters, sometimes they're looking at, you know, "Do I take a pay cut and go in the UFC and get less famous?" I mean, I had to take a pay cut after, uh, I left Strikeforce, but I wanted to fight GSP. So it's like-

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. JS

      ... I wouldn't have been happy with myself if I haven't got it. So, it sucks to be in a situation to have to take a pay cut, but that's how it goes sometimes.

  5. 8:00 – 10:23

    Bellator highlights, Strikeforce nostalgia, and the ‘Mayhem’ brawl story

    1. JR

      Did you see Corey Anderson versus Nemkov this past weekend?

    2. JS

      (sighs) I missed that.

    3. JR

      Oh my God, it was such a bummer. Because first of all, Nemkov is a beast, but Corey Anderson was working him. Corey Anderson was way ahead in the fight. He was dominating him on the ground, he was taking him down. He was doing fantastic in the stand up and then during the ground and pound, he slipped, like, tr- trying to throw an elbow, I believe, or maybe a punch, and they collided heads. Nemkov got a giant gash-

    4. JS

      Oh, man.

    5. JR

      ... and they stopped the fight and made it a no contest. So, this is the million dollar fight.

    6. JS

      Oh, Jesus. Oh, that's the-

    7. JR

      If he wins... Yeah. That's-

    8. JS

      That was the final one?

    9. JR

      Yeah, that's it, because Nemkov's the champion.

    10. JS

      So are they gonna fight again, or-

    11. JR

      Yes.

    12. JS

      ... what are they gonna do?

    13. JR

      Yes, they have to fight again, but now Nemkov has-

    14. JS

      Two fights for a million dollars.

    15. JR

      This is like... Here, l- watch this again. So what... Just go a little bit before this, so you can see, like-

    16. GU

      Keep showing it.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. GU

      I'm just trying to find that slow-mo where... Here you go.

    19. JR

      Well... Yeah. So, he was going to throw an elbow and he got-

    20. JS

      Oh.

    21. JR

      ... blocked and, and, you know, deflected and clashed heads. And props to Corey, who immediately said, "I hit him with my head."

    22. JS

      Damn it.

    23. JR

      See, look, he w- See, it was just that, like, his arm slipped off and they collided heads.

    24. JS

      I wouldn't have said anything if I was Corey. (laughs)

    25. JR

      Well, Corey's a good man. Not that you're not, but, you know, he just-

    26. JS

      But I still won't say anything. (laughs)

    27. JR

      He just wanted to be... So, Nemkov's a bad motherfucker, though. He's a-

    28. JS

      Man.

    29. JR

      ... beast. I mean, he knocked out Ryan Bader and-

    30. JS

      Yeah.

  6. 10:23 – 15:45

    Jake’s ‘accidental’ first fight, early MMA chaos, and brutal old rules

    1. JR

      You know? It's so funny, like, uh, when you say y- you competed in '99, 'cause that's like... God, man, you were on the early, early days. That's six years after the birth of the UFC.

    2. JS

      Yeah, it was at that s- yeah, you're right, '93. Holy-

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. JS

      ... crap (mumbles) . Yeah, the sports I've watched have just changed so much, you know. I've had fights bare knuckles. Um, my first fight, I was actually in the crowd watching the fight, just there to watch and someone didn't show up. It was like, "Does anyone wanna fight?" And my dumb ass is like, "Yeah, me, me."

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. JS

      And they're sitting there, I'm going up, and they're taping my wrists and I'm sitting there back there being like, "Wait, what did I just do?"

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. JS

      "Is this, uh... Is this a good idea?"

    9. JR

      How old were you?

    10. JS

      I'm a moron. Probably 20, so I was a moron.

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. JS

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      How long had you been training?

    14. JS

      I think, like, three, four weeks.

    15. JR

      Oh, that's-

    16. JS

      But I, but I was a wrestler.

    17. JR

      ... hilarious.

    18. JS

      I thought I could beat everyone else, so... And I did win the fight.

    19. JR

      Wow.

    20. JS

      But I thought I was, like, unbeatable.

    21. JR

      Did you have any striking training at all?

    22. JS

      Oh, no. Oh, I think I got-

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. JS

      ... the crap beat out of me by Chuck Liddell one time.

    25. JR

      One time. (laughs)

    26. JS

      I wanted to, like, spar him 'cause, you know... We know how Chuck looks, right? But-

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. JS

      ... imagine if you'd never seen Chuck, you'd be like, "This guy is ridiculous. I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess this guy up." So going in-

    29. JR

      Really? Chuck?

    30. JS

      I didn't really think I was messing with him, but I thought I would do well. And I got in there with him and he just creamed me. And this was-

  7. 15:45 – 21:33

    Vegetarian ethics, hunting debates, and diet adaptation (plus donut temptation)

    1. JR

      Did you have any idea of doing something else? Is... Was there something else you wanted to do when you were young?

    2. JS

      I had no clue what I wanted to do. I was just a young kid getting in trouble. I thought maybe be a pro snowboarder 'cause all my friends were trying to do that. But I didn't really have any ambition. I was going to school but no idea what I wanted to study. So I caught fighting and just, um, completely fell in love and got addicted and just, uh, you k- you know, couldn't help going for it and trying it.

    3. JR

      It's interesting because people have this idea of like what, um, the, like what kind of personality gets involved in fighting. But your personality's like kind of the opposite. You're like very friendly.

    4. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      Real quiet. You're mostly-

    6. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      ... vegetarian.

    8. JS

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      You know?

    10. JS

      Well, fully vegetarian, but-

    11. JR

      Are you fully vegetarian?

    12. JS

      Not, not vegan though. Yeah. Vegetarian, so...

    13. JR

      Do you eat eggs?

    14. JS

      I do eat eggs.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      The vegans and no eggs, so...

    17. JR

      Right. Do you, um... But you do that mostly for like ethical reasons, right?

    18. JS

      Mostly for ethical reasons, yeah.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. JS

      I grew up vegetarian so it makes it a lot easier for me. So I never had to like cut it out. I don't miss it. So it just kind of... The few times I've eaten it I felt like nasty and felt weird and actually physically sick too. So I'm like-

    21. JR

      Meat?

    22. JS

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      First time you... Really?

    24. JS

      In the... Yeah.

    25. JR

      Wow.

    26. JS

      It makes my stomach bloat. If I was to eat it, I would do like you, go hunting or something.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. JS

      'Cause the idea of like these factory farms are just, I don't know. If you watch any of those videos, just-

    29. JR

      (exhales)

    30. JS

      ... just disgusting.

  8. 21:33 – 26:13

    Online trolls, the ‘OK’ hand sign, and performative activism backlash

    1. JS

      Yeah. So back to that, who do you think comes up with that? You think someone being serious? You think someone trolling? You think, uh-

    2. JR

      I think there's a lot of variables. Th- It could be, like, Russians that are, like, coming up with some nonsense to try to make people fight online. There's, there's definitely a lot of these things that are trolls. There's a lot of these things that are created in, um, whether it's Reddit or all these other places.

    3. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      You know?

    5. JS

      Like the, the okay hand signal? Oh wait, I might get banned for doing that 'cause you see that one-

    6. JR

      No, the okay one was ... That's a weird one, right? 'Cause it used to be ... There's some sort of game that some dorks play.

    7. JS

      Oh, yeah. It's the smack game.

    8. JR

      Where you smack a guy in the nuts-

    9. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      ... if you ... if your fingers point in a certain way.

    11. JS

      Yeah. I bet if you-

    12. JR

      You know?

    13. JS

      ... done this before, I'd just smack them back. (laughs)

    14. JR

      I don't understand that game. I didn't know about that game until Tim Pool told me about it.

    15. GU

      It's just a dumb game.

    16. JR

      Did you kn- What?

    17. GU

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      What is it? How does it work?

    19. GU

      Got you. Made you look.

    20. JS

      If you look, like below the leg, if you hold it here and you look, then I get to punch you.

    21. GU

      Just made you look.

    22. JS

      I'll try to get you later.

    23. JR

      What?

    24. GU

      Made you look.

    25. JR

      Do you b- In the nuts?

    26. JS

      No, no, no, no.

    27. GU

      Oh, yeah. Well, it depends.

    28. JS

      You can just like-

    29. GU

      Really, it's just a punch-

    30. JR

      Some guys-

  9. 26:13 – 29:06

    San Francisco lockdowns, riots, and Jake’s pivot into political Twitter

    1. JR

      Well, you were diving into the waters of Twitter. I was like, "Look at Jake go."

    2. JS

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      'Cause you- it seems like you-

    4. JS

      I never used it till recently, yeah.

    5. JR

      Yeah, it seem- but it seemed like you had gotten to a point where you were like, "Fucking enough." Is that accurate?

    6. JS

      That's exactly what happened. I think it was the COVID lockdowns were just so extreme in San Francisco. And then the Black Lives Matter riots came, and they were letting people just loot and rob people. And I'm like, "You know what? I'm just gonna start fucking-"

    7. JR

      Talking.

    8. JS

      "... speaking my mind."

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      I probably lost about 20,000 followers in the first week tweeting, but-

    11. JR

      Did you really?

    12. JS

      Maybe, like, 10. But-

    13. JR

      Wow.

    14. JS

      ... it took me a while, but I slowly- now I'm back above where I was.

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. JS

      Just different audiences. (laughs) But- but now, when I tweet about fighting, it gets, like, hardly any, uh, any traction. I'll tweet about politics and it goes crazy.

    17. JR

      Love it.

    18. JS

      So I just have a different audience. It's kind of hilarious.

    19. JR

      That's so funny.

    20. JS

      But if I, like, go- like, so if I start- my audience I picked up, if I start talking crap on Trump or something, it'll get, like, no- no likes. No retweets.

    21. JR

      (laughs) Yeah, it's- the- the- the San Francisco way of handling things might be the worst in the country. Well, it's like s- the whole Pacific Northwest. It's San Francisco-

    22. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. JR

      ... Portland, and Seattle. They handled that shit worse than anybody.

    24. JS

      It was just unreal. You know, most of my- like, half my frie- fe- friends, you know, middle class people, who have spent years working their ass off, probably more than half of them minorities, to build businesses up, and just got their businesses crushed. Most of them went under. You know, restaurants-

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. JS

      ... clubs, gyms.

    27. JR

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    28. JS

      It's just, uh- they don't realize the damage it does to people. Especially the middle class and the money-

    29. JR

      They didn't fucking care because their checks kept coming. All those politicians, they ... And I have a friend, and his brother works on the COVID board in California.

    30. JS

      Uh-huh.

  10. 29:06 – 33:25

    Fighter health: deviated septum, broken noses, staph infections, and Thailand hospitals

    1. JR

      'Cause your- your nose is fucked, right? We were talking about that before the podcast.

    2. JS

      Yeah, I got the deviated septum.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. JS

      So I'm stuck, like, uh-

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. JS

      ... I need to get this thing fixed.

    7. JR

      I got mine fixed. It was the- the best fucking thing I've ever done. 'Cause mine was broken my whole life.

    8. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      I fell down a flight of stairs when I was, like, five years old and fucked my nose up. But I could never breathe out of it. It was always useless 'cause I pro- I probably broke it, like, a dozen times over my life.

    10. JS

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      You know, most fighters, like, like, Justin Gaethje, you hear him talk. He talks like this.

    12. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      Like, "It sounds like," "It sounds like there's," like there's no nose.

    14. JS

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Like his nose is completely stuffed up.

    16. JS

      What was the recovery time on that, uh, for this?

    17. JR

      Fucking nothing.

    18. JS

      Oh, fuck. I gotta go get that.

    19. JR

      I was rolling in six weeks.

    20. JS

      Yeah, I gotta get that.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. JS

      'Cause it su- ... I think I'm just so used to it, I don't realize, but now that I'm gonna be able to breathe out of my nose, I've had it for a-

    23. JR

      Oh, it changes everything. It's like (breathes deeply) . Look at this (breathes deeply) .

    24. JS

      Fresh air.

    25. JR

      I would- I would go to yoga class, and they would say, "Breathe out of your nose." I'm like, "I can't. I'll die."

    26. JS

      Yeah, right?

    27. JR

      Like, I literally- I'll die. I'll literally-

    28. JS

      That's why my- my friend gave me that thing for breathing out your nose. I'm like, "I can't use this. I can't-"

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. JS

      "... breathe out of my nose."

  11. 33:25 – 39:02

    Sparring culture, concussion caution, and judging controversies in MMA

    1. JR

      I know, right? It's like, isn't it amazing that a culture that dev- developed arguably the best stand-up striking style-

    2. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      ... also is so friendly?

    4. JS

      Oh, yeah. And the Thai guys that you're sparring with are, like, so nice.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. JS

      They're just chill. They love it when you're training with them, Americans.

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JS

      It's just like, uh, the nicest dudes.

    9. JR

      They're so nice and they're also really good at not beating people up.

    10. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      Like, one of the things about sparring, like, you have to be really careful. Say, if you're an amateur and you spar with a professional, and you go to certain gyms, certain gyms, they'll hurt you.

    12. JS

      Oh, yeah. That's, that's ... Especially in boxing-

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. JS

      ... they try to knock you out.

    15. JR

      Oh, yeah. 100%.

    16. JS

      But the Thai guys will play with you. Unless you go hard on them-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. JS

      ... then they will try to kick your ass, which obviously makes sense.

    19. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, if you go hard on them.

    20. JS

      But the-

    21. JR

      But I remember y- first ... My first times in a boxing gym, they just tried to kill me.

    22. JS

      Oh, yeah. If ... Unless you're really good, you go in a boxing gym-

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. JS

      ... they're gonna go out there and literally try to knock you out. That's what they just use people for.

    25. JR

      It's cr- But it's crazy how many wars are in boxing gyms. I mean, so many videos of guys just flat out throwing 100% knocking people out. And they'll put that video-

    26. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      ... up on your Instagram. And you're like, "Hey, man, you shouldn't put that up." Like, "You look like a fucking asshole here." Like-

    28. JS

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      "You shouldn't be sparring like this."

    30. JS

      Yeah. And, you know, posting knocking someone out is kinda messed up too, a little disrespectful.

  12. 39:02 – 40:11

    Life after fighting: business ventures, coaching select athletes, and big-arena memories

    1. JR

      When you're, you're at that stage where you're not fighting anymore, and that's ... For someone who has fought since '99, that's a complicated stage in your life, where you're sort of like ... Y- you have to be all in to be a fighter, and then you realize at a certain point in time that you're not anymore. Like, how do you make that adjustment?

    2. JS

      Th- that is a good question, and that is extremely difficult, which I think is why a lot of athletes go on, like, past they wanna be fighting.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. JS

      'Cause it becomes, like, your identity.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JS

      It's all I know, is I get a fight, you know, and then I, like, train my ass off for, like, 10 weeks, fight, take a week off, party-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. JS

      ... back to the gym and try to schedule another fight. It's like your identity. And then you're like, "Oh, I gotta step away." And it's, um ... The fir- the first year was, was kinda tough, but now I've, you know, started getting into the business world. I've been fortunate to have, you know, good mentors around me. Like, I don't know if you know Tarec Sime? He was my trainer.

    9. JR

      Yeah. Yeah.

    10. JS

      He's a great guy. He, early on, was pushing me into business. I wasn't really listening, unfortunately, 'til, 'til later.

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. JS

      (laughs) But then him and another guy I started working with, Derry Money- uh, Derek Moneyberg's an extremely rich dude. He, like, really has business figured out. So I'm like, all right, learning from people that, uh ... You gotta put energy into something else so you enjoy it.

    13. JR

      Right. Like, what kind of business are you doing?

  13. 40:11 – 53:03

    Weed in fight culture: High Rollers, Diaz stories, and commissions’ punishment mismatch

    1. JS

      Oh, man, I'm doing all kinds of stuff. I just launched, uh, my clothing company, American Jiu-Jitsu. Uh, American, uh, americanfight.com is the website. Um, been working with High Rollers.

    2. JR

      Okay, the BJJ marijuana company?

    3. JS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the own- one of the owners there now. (laughs)

    4. JR

      Oh, you're one of the owners? That's lit.

    5. JS

      Yeah, yeah. So it's, I think I'm, uh, I think I'm getting a deal on Fight Pass.

    6. JR

      Have you ever done a, a competition high?

    7. JS

      I did once, at the High Rollers-

    8. JR

      Yeah? Yeah?

    9. JS

      ... against, uh, Diego.

    10. JR

      What is it like, being barbecued?

    11. JS

      Terrifying.

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. JS

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      How often do you get high, first off?

    15. JS

      Like, once every couple months.

    16. JR

      Oh, really?

    17. JS

      So for me, it was like, "Oh, crap, I smoked too much."

    18. JR

      W- well, you're hanging out with the Diaz brothers though. Everybody would assume that you get high every day.

    19. JS

      Oh, yeah, everyone thinks I'm high all the time.

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. JS

      (laughs) Nick, I think Nick smokes the most by far.

    22. JR

      Does he?

    23. JS

      Yeah. Nate's not like ... He smokes, but not like, not like Nick. Nick will just put it down. He'll smoke you under the table.

    24. JR

      I'm sure. Dude, a lot of people smoke me under the table. I've had people on this podcast that ... Like, Mike Tyson the other day, he smoked me under the table.

    25. JS

      Oh, you said Mike Tyson?

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. JS

      I'll have to watch that one.

    28. JR

      Snoop Dogg, he smoked me under the table. Wiz Khalifa. Um-

    29. JS

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      ... Action Bronson, he smoked me under the table. Most people do. Most real solid smokers. The ... I smoke a lot, but I don't smoke a lot for a, a person who smokes a lot.

  14. 53:03 – 1:02:36

    Danaher, B-Team/PR split, and the evolution of gi vs no-gi jiu-jitsu

    1. JR

      So, you have your business with, like, your clothing line.

    2. JS

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And do you think you'll ever open up a gym?

    4. JS

      I th- I was thinking about it, but it's, like, a lot of work to run a gym, and it's not a ton of money for having to, like, sit around and... I would do it, but I would, I would have to have a good partner and other people that help me teach 'cause I enjoy teaching, but I don't... I'm not like, uh, John Danaher where I wanna teach five times a day.

    5. JR

      Right. He's a weird guy, right?

    6. JS

      Right?

    7. JR

      I mean, uh, I mean weird in the-

    8. JS

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... best possible way.

    10. JS

      Oh, 100%. Uh, he... I, I love John, but he's definitely an odd character.

    11. JR

      He's so odd. Good luck finding one of those. I was talking to Gordon about that. I was like, "Good luck finding another one of those." You got a guy who is a philosophy professor-

    12. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      ... from Columbia who falls in love with jujitsu to the point where he lives in the gym, sleeps on the mats-

    14. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      ... trains all day, and he's not self obsessed because he's injured. Like d-

    16. JS

      Mm-mm.

    17. JR

      Like, he... For people who don't know, John Danaher has, like, serious injuries. Like, he had his hip replaced.

    18. JS

      Mm-mm.

    19. JR

      I think he's gonna have his knee replaced. He's just not sure when.

    20. JS

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      And a lot of that is from rugby before he ever did jujitsu.

    22. JS

      Yeah. Oh, yeah, I was training in New York when he had the hip replacement and the knee, and he was just in absolute pain, you could tell, but he's a stoic guy. He would, you know, limp in with a cane.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JS

      He couldn't show the matches, so he would, like, sit there and point with, like, a, a staff.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. JS

      He would make, like, Garry show the moves, and then there was a couple month period I think where he was going through the pain where sometimes he would just go off on Garry. I'm like, "Oh, poor Garry, he's d- showing it wrong." (laughs)

    27. JR

      Wow.

    28. JS

      But man, yeah, he's a smart guy.

    29. JR

      Oh, he's a genius. It's just very rare to get someone of that intellectual, that high-level intellectual capacity that gets obsessed with jujitsu and martial arts in general. Like, when I found out that he was Garry Tonon's striking coach as well as his jujitsu coach, I was like, "Holy fuck, that's insane."

    30. JS

      Yeah, when I started talking to him about striking one day, I was in shock. He was showing me, like, different boxers and kickboxers and, like, showing their offense, their defense. You're like, "Wow, this guy is like an encyclopedia." He's, uh... He knows everything. He did the same thing with wrestlers.

Episode duration: 3:10:26

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode HpfYRH3X8ys

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome