JRE MMA Show #126 with Eryk Anders

1. 0:00 – 2:50

   Making 185 at a 230-lb walkaround: weight cuts, diet extremes, and performance

   1. EAEryk Anders0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) First of all, how the fuck do you make 185 pounds?

   3. EAEryk Anders0:15

      I-

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      How is that even possible?

   5. EAEryk Anders0:16

      Diet and exercise.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      But you're so big. What do you walk around at?

   7. EAEryk Anders0:20

      Uh, about 230 right now.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      (imitates explosion) What is the process of you getting down to 185?

   9. EAEryk Anders0:26

      Yeah, I definitely can't do it, uh, on short notice. It takes like a whole eight weeks, uh, unless I, you know, have to kill myself.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (smacks lips) Geez.

   11. EAEryk Anders0:35

       Which ... And I used to do that. I'd just not eat for a week and sit in a sauna forever and then wonder why, after three minutes, like, "Dude, I'm fucking tired, dude."

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah.

   13. EAEryk Anders0:43

       "Fuck, fuck."

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Well, how much of a, a p- performance impact does it have on you even if you, like, take off ... even if you have s- two solid months to prepare and lose the weight?

   15. EAEryk Anders0:52

       Yeah. I feel, I feel good. Uh, I don't think it has a performance issue. I know that some dudes, they cut weight, uh, they don't do it the right way, and I think it kinda like, uh-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Makes them chancy.

   17. EAEryk Anders1:02

       ... makes them more fragile, you know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Yeah.

   19. EAEryk Anders1:04

       But I haven't had that experience.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       (sips) Mm. So for you, as long as they give you two months, you can do it, but how good does food taste after those two months?

   21. EAEryk Anders1:16

       Ah, dude, I ... Everything in my life is extreme.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       (laughs)

   23. EAEryk Anders1:18

       Like if I'm not, if I'm like ... If I don't have a fight coming up, I'm a burger, cheeseburger, uh, pizza, beer kinda guy. Hardly drink water. But then when I am ... Don't eat anything green. Uh, but then when I am training for a fight, you know, it's just the exact opposite. Nothing but water. You know, I count my calories and ... yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       Do you have like a meal prep company that-

   25. EAEryk Anders1:37

       Yeah, those uh, I think it's Icon Meals-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       Mm-hmm.

   27. EAEryk Anders1:40

       ... that the UFC has.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       Yeah.

   29. EAEryk Anders1:42

       And it's awesome 'cause like each meal you can just like tell how ... It says like the macronutrients on there and how many calories, so I just wear like a heart rate monitor and it tells me how many calories I burn per workout, so I just go home. "Oh, that burnt 500. I can only eat 300."

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:55

       (exhales)
2. 2:50 – 4:51

   Should weight cutting be banned? Fight-night weights, “sanctioned cheating,” and optimized body types

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:50

      What would you think if they eliminated weight cutting? 'Cause, you know, there's been talk about that, mostly from me. I, I j- ... I think it's ... I mean, everyone's doing it, but what it is essentially is like sanctioned cheating. You're pretending you're 185 pounds.

   2. EAEryk Anders3:06

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:06

      You're about 185 for what, a hour?

   4. EAEryk Anders3:08

      I f- ... Yeah. The shortest amount of time possible.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      Yeah. And then what do you ... When you fight, what do you think you weigh?

   6. EAEryk Anders3:14

      (smacks lips) Well, I, I've been as heavy as 225 on fight night-

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      Wow.

   8. EAEryk Anders3:18

      ... before an 185 fight.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:19

      That's crazy.

   10. EAEryk Anders3:20

       But I ... It's a ... I think it works backwards. Yeah, I'm bigger, but when I'm that heavy ... Like when I fought Andre Muniz, I was like 225, but I just felt like heavy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       Mm.

   12. EAEryk Anders3:29

       You know, I was like, "Dude, I don't know if I was-

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:31

       You put too much on.

   14. EAEryk Anders3:32

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       Yeah.

   16. EAEryk Anders3:32

       I was like, "Dude, I'm not moving like I was getting ready for the fight." So when that happens, it's like, "Dang." I just kinda fuck myself.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:39

       Charles Oliveira just, uh ... They, they just did this thing where they wei- weighed him on, uh, fight night versus weigh-in, and he's 183 on fight night. He fights at 155 which is-

   18. EAEryk Anders3:51

       Ah, you look at him, you wouldn't think he weighs that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       No, he's-

   20. EAEryk Anders3:53

       You know, he's ...

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       He's pretty stout. He's a stout du- ... I mean, he's long and lean and everything, but-

   22. EAEryk Anders3:57

       He's like broad, but-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       Mm-hmm.

   24. EAEryk Anders3:59

       ... front to back he's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       Yeah.

   26. EAEryk Anders4:00

       ... a thin guy.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       Well, I think he's maximized for the weight class. There's guys that like, they're maximized for that weight class. Like Jon Jones at 205 is a perfect example. Maximized for that weight class. The, the perfect physique for that weight class. Khamzat Chimaev at 170, maximized. It's like the perfect amount of length, but strong as shit.

   28. EAEryk Anders4:19

       Sure.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:19

       You know, there's like a, a lot, there's a lot of advantages for that.

   30. EAEryk Anders4:23

       Yeah. You know, those guys, especially at the top, you know, they're much bigger, uh, for the most part than everybody else in their weight class. Like, Usman's a big motherfucker for the weight class. Jon Jones, he's 6'4".
3. 4:51 – 6:22

   Learning to cut correctly: early horror stories and how his wife changed the process

   1. EAEryk Anders4:51

      No, when I, uh, when I first started fighting, they were like, "Oh, you're gonna ..." I was like 240, like football big. And they were like, "Oh, you're gonna end up fighting at 85." I was like, "Bullshit."

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:00

      (laughs)

   3. EAEryk Anders5:00

      "I'm, I'm not cutting weight like that." And then, uh, my buddy, uh, Marcus Brimage fought McGregor on the same card that, uh, Cormier and, uh, Jon Jones fought the first time, and so we went and I saw those two fight, and I was like, "85 might be the move."

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:17

      (laughs)

   5. EAEryk Anders5:17

      "85 might be the move. Motherfuckers are big, dude."

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:19

      What was it like the first time you did it?

   7. EAEryk Anders5:21

      Uh, dude, it was awful, because like no one told me how to do it. They were like, "Oh, dude, you know ... " I would run, and I'd be like 210, and they're like, "Oh, you can just cut the rest in water." So like, "All right." So the first time, dude, I sat in a sauna for like six hours.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:36

      (sighs)

   9. EAEryk Anders5:37

      And, uh, my coach at the time, I was like, "Dude, I'm done with this. I don't care how much I weigh right now. I'm outta here." And, uh, he was like, "No, no." You know? I'm like, "Dude, listen. I'm getting outta here whether it's through you or around you."

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:49

       (laughs)

   11. EAEryk Anders5:50

       "You have about three seconds to make this decision." And, uh, he just stepped to the side and, you know, of course I missed weight. I was like 189, but I was like, "Dude, I'm not doing that shit." And then, uh ... So I did that a few times, and then I met my wife, and, you know, she's into the fitness thing, and she's like, "You're-"... not a smart person.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:09

       (laughs)

   13. EAEryk Anders6:09

       This is, this is not how you should be doing this. So she started measuring my meals and I was actually eating more, you know, 'cause it makes your metabolism faster or whatever, but smaller meals.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:18

       Mm.

   15. EAEryk Anders6:19

       And then, dude, I, just became easier.

4. 6:22 – 8:23

   From national champion to janitor: post-football frustration and finding MMA

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:22

      So what was your transition from football into MMA? Like what, what motivated that?

   2. EAEryk Anders6:28

      Uh, well, uh, so we won the national championship my senior year. And so I think everybody knows that if you, even if you do make it to the NFL, probably not gonna be there for long. So I went, "Okay, so if the NFL thing doesn't work out, at least I can come back to Alabama. Somebody, an alumni will have a job for me." You know, uh, but that's not what happened. Um, so I, you know, I ended up being a janitor. I was cleaning apartments, cleaning factories, working with meth heads and-

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:57

      Whoa.

   4. EAEryk Anders6:58

      ... you know, drug addicts, like, with a water lance. Like this thing has, like, 2,000 pounds of pressure. Like it cut sheet metal.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:04

      Really?

   6. EAEryk Anders7:04

      And you know, some dude's, like, nodding off, you know, fucking around. So it was dangerous, you know. So I just found myself being, like, mad frustrated that, you know, here I am living in the same town that just a year ago we won the national championship and I'm doing this kind of work. So you know, I was, you know, fighting all the time, drinking, abusing drugs, just kind of mad. And, uh, walking around my fists balled up all the time. I was like, so ... I went, "Man, eventually something's gonna happen to me. I'm gonna get shot." You know, just, you know, doing stupid stuff. And, uh, so I just walked into a gym, started training. Uh ...

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:40

      So you were about 21?

   8. EAEryk Anders7:42

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:43

      21 when you first started training?

   10. EAEryk Anders7:44

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       No training prior at all?

   12. EAEryk Anders7:46

       Uh, no, like 24.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:47

       Oh, really?

   14. EAEryk Anders7:48

       Yeah. 'Cause I, like, chased the dream, the football dream.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:50

       Mm-hmm.

   16. EAEryk Anders7:50

       I went to, uh, Colorado, played arena ball and, you know, played in Canada for a little bit and, uh, you know, finally it was just like, "Dude, if it's not the NFL, then it's not worth it."

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:02

       So what was, uh, holding you back from achieving your goals in the NFL?

   18. EAEryk Anders8:06

       Um, I just don't think I was big enough, fast enough, good enough. And you know, you always kind of, like, lie to yourself when you're young. You're just like, "Oh, fuck yeah, dude, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna play." And then, you know, you kind of get shit on and, you know, so you just walk around bitter until you find something else to do. At least that was my experience, anyways.

5. 8:23 – 23:29

   Starting MMA late and getting humbled fast: sparring Walt Harris and embracing being a beginner

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:23

      And so was MMA a thought in your mind as a career or was it something you were just doing to blow off steam?

   2. EAEryk Anders8:30

      Uh, initially I just wanted ... I started doing jujitsu and I was like, "Oh, this is cool." You know, I can go, like, wrestle and, like, get it out, you know?

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:37

      Mm-hmm.

   4. EAEryk Anders8:38

      And, uh, I want, wanted to see what it's like to, you know, throw punches and stuff. And so I walked into another gym and, uh, first day in there, the coach walks up to me. He's like, "Uh, can you fight?" And when y- any 24-year-old male and you ask them if they fight, it's like, "Fuck yeah, I can fight. Hell yeah." Uh, he's like, "All right, cool. Here are some gloves. Go fight that guy. Go spar with that guy." And it was fucking Walt Harris, who was already, uh, a professional fighter, been training, been boxing.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:10

      Heavyweight?

   6. EAEryk Anders9:11

      Big motherfucker, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:12

      Yeah, Walt's big.

   8. EAEryk Anders9:13

      Like 260, 6'4". And, uh, he beat me up in the nicest way possible.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:18

      (laughs)

   10. EAEryk Anders9:18

       Like, I knew, like, if he was being for real, I knew what would happen to me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Well, that's nice of Walt.

   12. EAEryk Anders9:23

       Yeah. And, like, you know, I had, like, those big football muscles so I couldn't, you know, block anything down the middle, so I was just goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       (laughs)

   14. EAEryk Anders9:31

       And, uh, but dude, I fell in love with it. I was like, "Dude, it's gonna be fun to, like, suck at something and then learn how to do it."

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       Yeah.

   16. EAEryk Anders9:38

       "And then not suck." And you know, but I think that's, like, the biggest apprehension from other athletes coming into this 'cause who the fuck wants to be a white belt?

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Right.

   18. EAEryk Anders9:46

       Again, you know, you're already an elite athlete or, you know, played at the pinnacle of the sport. Now you gotta go in there and take your licks again like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       Like a beginner.

   20. EAEryk Anders9:55

       Yeah. And so I think, uh, the ego kind of gets in the way of, you know, guys coming from other sports and girls coming from other sports and learning this stuff.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       Well, even, that even works in guys in combat sports that are learning MMA, like guys who are kickboxers, they don't like to-

   22. EAEryk Anders10:11

       Wrestle.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       ... wrestle or do jujitsu. They just want to learn how to get up. They just want to learn ... Th- that's a big common problem. So when they get in scrambles, they don't really know how to do anything offensively, so everything is defensive. Which once your opponent realizes that everything is defensive, it's very, m- much more relaxing for them.

   24. EAEryk Anders10:30

       Yeah. And they know they don't have a wrist, so they can take more chances.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:33

       Exactly. Exactly.

   26. EAEryk Anders10:34

       "Oh, worst case scenario, he gets up. I'm not gonna get choked out by," or whatever.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:37

       Yeah, it's like guys that surprise people, like Jiri Prochazka when Jiri just tapped out Glover. Like who the fuck saw that coming?

   28. EAEryk Anders10:44

       Oh, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:44

       You know?

   30. EAEryk Anders10:45

       I think exhaustion kind of plays into-
6. 23:29 – 1:09:40

   Wild early fights and sketchy promotions: cigarettes, no corner, and two bouts in one night

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:29

      Wow. So when you had your first fight, how long had you been training for?

   2. EAEryk Anders23:34

      A month.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:35

      A month?

   4. EAEryk Anders23:35

      And I fought twice.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:37

      In a night?

   6. EAEryk Anders23:38

      Yeah, I think, uh, my coach at the time, I'm sure that he was on dope looking back.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:44

      (laughs)

   8. EAEryk Anders23:44

      (laughs) His... he would just be pale and we didn't do nothing but ones and twos, didn't wrestle, didn't do anything. He would hardly show up. And, uh, you know, they were like, "Hey, you want to fight?" I was like, "All right, cool." And, uh, so dude, I like... Like this is very like a dark time in my life, you know? So I was like... drove up to Huntsville, Alabama smoking Newports and, uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:08

      Smoking Newports the day of the fight?

   10. EAEryk Anders24:10

       Oh, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       Wow.

   12. EAEryk Anders24:11

       And, uh, man, my coach didn't even show up. Didn't have any corner men. This is in a boxing ring in a bar, in a smoky bar in the middle of nowhere Alabama. And, uh, so I was just like, "Hey, um, sir, do you mind, uh... You don't have to say anything, just do you mind pulling the stool out in between rounds?" I boxed one fight, lost a split decision and then, uh, fought MMA, knocked the guy out in 50 seconds and I was like, "I think that's it."

   13. JRJoe Rogan24:41

       In the same night?

   14. EAEryk Anders24:42

       In the same night.

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:42

       So you had a boxing match and then you had an MMA fight in the same night? Oh my god.

   16. EAEryk Anders24:47

       No coach.

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:49

       (laughs) No Athletic Commission either, I guarantee ya.

   18. EAEryk Anders24:50

       Zero.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:51

       (laughs)

   20. EAEryk Anders24:51

       Zero.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:52

       Holy shit. That h- What kind of fucking promotion is that?

   22. EAEryk Anders24:55

       Dude, just some rednecks putting together a boxing match or a fight. They called me on, while I was on the way up there. They're like, "Hey, um, they want you to have your, your blood work, you know, done within, like, the last six months. Have you had, uh, your blood work done?" I was like, "Um, yeah, sure. Like, like, two months ago, I did." But, dude, of course, I didn't.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       They didn't check.

   24. EAEryk Anders25:16

       And then as I'm driving, I was like, "Dude, what if the guy that I'm fighting did the same thing, and but he does actually have, like, hepatitis or AIDS?"

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       Right. Right.

   26. EAEryk Anders25:25

       So I was like, "Well, I guess, you know, better make it quick, I guess."

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       (laughs) Don't let him get on top of you and bleed on you. Jesus Christ. So many people have those stories of the- these wild promotions. These, like-

   28. EAEryk Anders25:40

       And dude, I had no idea what I was doing. Like, how much do you think you could learn in a month with zero previous training?

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       And a shitty coach who's probably on dope.

   30. EAEryk Anders25:48

       And, yeah.
7. 44:56 – 1:17:57

   Breaking down elite fighters and a stacked UFC card: Adesanya–Cannonier, Pereira–Strickland, Holloway–Volk

   1. JRJoe Rogan44:56

      Yeah. It's not fun. But it's like those fights, like, you... It's, it's interesting to me the different kind of styles, right? Like, there's, uh, the guys that sprint and they can get guys out of there in the first round, and then there's guys that just, like, slowly start putting heat on you and cooking you, and then they come after you.

   2. EAEryk Anders45:15

      Yeah, then... Yeah. Um, (clicks tongue) I don't know. I like the brawlers. But there is something to, to be appreciated for, like, the technicians.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:24

      Yeah.

   4. EAEryk Anders45:24

      Like the Adesanyas and, you know-

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:27

      Oh, yeah.

   6. EAEryk Anders45:27

      ... the McGregors and stuff like that. Uh, so...

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:31

      It's a really interesting fight this weekend.

   8. EAEryk Anders45:33

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      And Jarrett Cannonier. Yeah, that is about as big as a 185-pound man gets.

   10. EAEryk Anders45:37

       Yeah. And I think he's, like, super deceptively long.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:41

       Mm-hmm.

   12. EAEryk Anders45:41

       Like, he's short. I think he's only 5'8", 5'9", or 5'10", something like that. But, dude, he... I bet you he could scratch his kneecap standing up.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       I think he's bigger than that. I think Jarrett is... I think he's six feet tall. How, how tall is Cannonier? 5'9"? Really? Wow. I'm confused. I thought he... He used to be a heavyweight. That's why I'm thinking it 'cause, you know, Jarrett started off his career as a heavyweight.

   14. EAEryk Anders46:04

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       And then got down to 205 and then now at 185.

   16. EAEryk Anders46:07

       But look at his reach.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       Oh, wow.

   18. EAEryk Anders46:08

       He's 5'9" with a 77 and a half reach. Uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       Yeah, that is a long reach. The thing about Jarrett is, like, he's so fucking shredded and lean and strong. Like, that guy has serious power. Like, serious, serious power.

   20. EAEryk Anders46:24

       Yeah. Don't sleep.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       Yeah.

   22. EAEryk Anders46:26

       He's... But the... I think the problem is, is I don't think anybody controls the distance as good as Adesanya does.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       No, he's the most sophisticated striker that sport's ever seen, in my opinion. He sets shit up. He's reading you. He's probing you. You know when you really see it? The Paulo Costa fight 'cause Paulo Costa was just steamrolling everybody.

   24. EAEryk Anders46:45

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       Just come forward, steamroll, steamroll. And Izzy just picked him apart, just...

   26. EAEryk Anders46:50

       Yeah, from a distance.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Yeah.

   28. EAEryk Anders46:52

       You know? I think the only person who, like... Not the only person who gave him trouble, but... Was, uh, Kelvin Gastelum.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:00

       Kelvin gave him some trouble.

   30. EAEryk Anders47:00

       Kind of, like, blitzed him a lot.

Episode duration: 2:30:56