JRE MMA Show #129 with Gordon Ryan & Mo Jassim

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:01

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. All right, what's happening?

   4. NANarrator0:14

      Not much.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you, good to see you. Mo, introduce yourself.

   6. MJMo Jassim0:17

      My name is Mo Jassim. I'm the head organizer of ADCC 2019. And-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      And for people who don't know what ADC, ADCC is, Abu Dhabi Combat Club. When, when was that founded? In 2000...

   8. NANarrator0:27

      No, 1998 was the-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      '98.

   10. NANarrator0:29

       ... inaugural one.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       That was the first one.

   12. MJMo Jassim0:31

       Yeah, way back in the day.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       That's pretty wild when you think about like the UFC starting in '93 and that's where everybody really got excited about JuJitsu.

   14. NANarrator0:39

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       And then Abu Dhabi only five, five years later.

   16. MJMo Jassim0:42

       Yeah, because, I mean, the owner and creator-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Pull this sucker right up-

   18. MJMo Jassim0:44

       Sorry.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       ... to your face. And you see, it moves around.

   20. MJMo Jassim0:46

       Okay.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       You can grab it. You don't have to-

   22. NANarrator0:48

       Hold on one second. Sorry.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       What's the matter?

   24. NANarrator0:50

       I'm not recording his mic on accident.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Oh. Hmm.

   26. NANarrator0:53

       Wrong one. There you go.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       Start again.

   28. NANarrator0:56

       No, it's good.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       Did you record it at all?

   30. NANarrator0:58

       It's going now.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Well, Marcelo finished more…

   1. GRGordon Ryan15:00

      pioneer.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      Well, Marcelo finished more people.

   3. GRGordon Ryan15:02

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      So-

   5. GRGordon Ryan15:02

      It depends on what the criteria is.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      Yeah.

   7. GRGordon Ryan15:04

      Like, Andre has more medals, but I think that the way Marcelo won was far more impressive.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      Yes.

   9. GRGordon Ryan15:09

      And he's got a lot more division wins. Like, he's got, he's got a way better, uh... He's had way more fights than Andre overall, uh, in, in ADCC. Like, he's did the division every year 'cause he never won the absolute. Whereas Andre just did the division and then the absolute. He lost his first two, and then he double golded, and then he's just been doing super fights since 2013. So he hasn't had that many fights compared to Marcelo.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Marcelo was built so weird too, 'cause he had these giant ass tree trunk legs-

   11. GRGordon Ryan15:35

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       ... and this, like, normal sized upper body.

   13. GRGordon Ryan15:37

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Just so weird, you know?

   15. GRGordon Ryan15:39

       One of the head judges trained with him for a week, and he came to Abu Dhabi and he was telling me, it's like the weirdest body type he's ever felt. He has, like, these tree trunk legs-

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       (laughs)

   17. GRGordon Ryan15:47

       ... that can elevate him, and these really small hands. So he's like, "Once he takes your back, there's, there's no way you could, you could defend." Training, training with, uh, with Mikey is, like, the same way, 'cause his legs are shorter proportionally than his upper body. So, like, you try to-

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:00

       Musumeci?

   19. GRGordon Ryan16:00

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       Yeah.

   21. GRGordon Ryan16:01

       So you're gonnna try to pass his guard, and they're like, feet... Like, little tiny feet, like, slip into places they normally wouldn't be able to because-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       (laughs)

   23. GRGordon Ryan16:06

       ... his legs are so short. So I'm, like, fucking trying to pass his guard, and his, like, feet are, like, coming inside my arms. I'm like, "Mo- man, I don't know what to do here."

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       He sat down outside and I had to get a photo of it because it's so preposterous. I'm like, "How is... What are you doing? How do you sit like that?"

   25. GRGordon Ryan16:19

       Oh, where his, where his, where his knees come in and his feet go out-

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Yeah.

   27. GRGordon Ryan16:21

       ... and then he sits.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Yeah.

   29. GRGordon Ryan16:21

       He sleeps like that s- uh... He sleeps like that on plane, on, on plane rides. Like, he'll just sit in the chair and then fall asleep apparently.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       That's insa... I don't even know how the fuck your body contorts to that shape. It has to be, like, his body developed while he was doing those positions.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   There's no one like…

   1. MJMo Jassim30:00

      you see the results.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      There's no one like him.

   3. GRGordon Ryan30:02

      No.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      The, no one else does that.

   5. GRGordon Ryan30:03

      And the, he doesn't do anything else in life. Like, he bought an a- he, he has an apartment now and, uh-I'm like, "Hey, did you go, like, furniture shopping? You'd, like, get, like, plates and dishes?" He's like, "Mm, I have to do that."

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      (laughs)

   7. GRGordon Ryan30:15

      I'm like, "We've been living here for a year, dude."

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      (laughs)

   9. MJMo Jassim30:17

      (laughs)

   10. GRGordon Ryan30:17

       I had to go to fucking Bed Bath & Beyond last week to pick him up plates, bowls, dishes, uh, utensils-

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       What does he eat? Uh, takeout?

   12. GRGordon Ryan30:25

       So he, he fasts, and he just go... He just goes to, uh, to Whole Foods at the end of the day and picks up whole foods. Hits on chicks.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:32

       (laughs)

   14. MJMo Jassim30:32

       (laughs)

   15. GRGordon Ryan30:32

       And, uh, but he, like, doesn't have like... I, I helped him move into his apartment. It's like, no one's been... Ever been in, like, any of John's apartments. So I helped him move into the apartment. So he's got, like, some furniture. He's got, like, a bed and, like, a couch and stuff. And he's like, "Oh, I'm gonna need to put some furniture in here." I'm like, "Yeah, that's never gonna happen."

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       (laughs)

   17. GRGordon Ryan30:47

       But then I asked him, I'm like, "Do you have, like, cups and bowls and stuff?" He's like, "No." So I had to, like, go and buy him-

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       (laughs)

   19. GRGordon Ryan30:53

       ... like, all this shit. He, like, moves in. He's like, "Gordon, what do you think about wifi?" I'm like, "What do you mean what do I think about wifi?"

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:01

       (laughs)

   21. MJMo Jassim31:01

       (laughs)

   22. GRGordon Ryan31:01

       He goes, "Is it worth getting?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       (laughs)

   24. MJMo Jassim31:03

       (laughs)

   25. GRGordon Ryan31:03

       I'm like, I'm like, "Yeah." I'm like, "You wanna, like, hook up your TV and watch, like, you know, Netflix or something?" He goes, "I despise TV. I'm not gonna watch it." I'm like, "Okay." I'm like, "Well, like, what if you wanna have, like, your phone connected to the wifi so you can watch tape?" He goes, "I can just watch it with the 5G. It's free." I'm like, "Okay." And I'm like, "Well, what if you have a chick over on a date and she wants to watch something on, on Netflix?" He goes, "Good point."

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:30

       (laughs)

   27. MJMo Jassim31:30

       (laughs)

   28. GRGordon Ryan31:30

       "How much does it cost?" (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       (laughs)

   30. MJMo Jassim31:32

       (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   I would think. …

   1. GRGordon Ryan45:00

      right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      I would think.

   3. MJMo Jassim45:00

      I would think.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      "I should fucking do that." That's, yeah...

   5. GRGordon Ryan45:01

      It's like, I don't get it.

   6. MJMo Jassim45:02

      I don't get it either.

   7. GRGordon Ryan45:03

      But I think they're just so blinded by hate that they just are just like, "Fuck that guy." And they just refuse to like even acknowledge anything. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't, I mean, it makes my job easier. It's-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:14

      Yeah.

   9. GRGordon Ryan45:14

      ... it's, it's great for me because I'm the only guy doing it. Um, I mean, not everybody, I mean, no one can do what I do. Like no one's gonna go on a 60 match winning streak and, you know, be able to call submissions and stuff like that. Um, but there are other ways to build a brand and, uh, you know, these guys are just so bad at it. Like they're just...

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       But conceivably someone could do what you've done if they did what you've done.

   11. GRGordon Ryan45:35

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       Like conceivably it's possible. You know?

   13. GRGordon Ryan45:38

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       I mean, it, it, it's not...

   15. GRGordon Ryan45:39

       Yeah. If I did it, people could do it.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:41

       Yeah.

   17. GRGordon Ryan45:41

       Um, but it's just, I don't know, man. It's just, they just don't.

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       Isn't, isn't that interesting when at least one person just separates himself from the herd and nobody goes, "Hey, I need to do what that guy's doing." And then that becomes like the norm.

   19. MJMo Jassim45:54

       It's, it's just...

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:54

       Like you must train seven days a week. You must study tape. You must analyze it from an intellectual perspective and not just be a brute.

   21. GRGordon Ryan46:00

       It's, it's so crazy. Actually like I just, uh, we're just releasing it now, like for ADCC. I just wrote a book on this about like building brands and like how to be as successful as like a young person or a young athlete.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       Mm-hmm.

   23. GRGordon Ryan46:10

       And it's, goes into like a lot of that stuff. Um, but it's just crazy how none of these guys can like differentiate themselves. Like, okay, if you can't win, at least like be different. Like do something different where it's like you get someone's attention. Like...

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       But you are different. The thing is people trying to be different, then you get Dillon Danis.

   25. GRGordon Ryan46:29

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       You know what I mean?

   27. GRGordon Ryan46:30

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:30

       You get people who t- just trying a little too hard.

   29. GRGordon Ryan46:32

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:32

       You know, obviously he has talent, but there's something about that extra, the trying too hard, that people are like, "Eh."
5. 1:00:00 – 1:06:13

   That's really interesting. So…

   1. GRGordon Ryan1:00:00

      but, uh, there's... Over the l- last five years, there's a lot less champions coming out of Brazil.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      That's really interesting. So they just come over here and then they start schools and make money?

   3. GRGordon Ryan1:00:12

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:12

      Yeah, which is harder to do over there.

   5. MJMo Jassim1:00:14

      I mean, the other problem too is this. If you wanna learn leg locks, who do you go to? Okay, you got John Danaher. There's some 10th Planet guys who are very good. Lachlan Giles. There's not that many experts in leg locks, so...... you know, that's a big issue. And I don't, I mean, other than buying DVDs, I don't know how you close that gap.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

      Hmm.

   7. MJMo Jassim1:00:31

      You know, because it's, for me, I hate leg locks personally. It's like a whole nother martial art. It's obviously very effective. But they have to learn that, that part of the game. And I went to Brazil. This is the first time I did the Brazil qualifiers myself. I went there for one reason. Um, the other, the other ones, they were okay. But I went there to get that passion into NoGi. And you know, I was there for two weeks, and we smashed it, a lot of competitors. So I'm interested to see what happens in 2024 in the next Brazilian trials to see, 'cause I'd, I've seen the progression in the North American trials massively over the last four years. So I want to see if that happens in Brazil. 'Cause at the end of the day, they still own 85, 90% of all ADCC titles.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

      It is pretty wild when you think about it that way, right? But obviously that's the birth of Brazilian Jujitsu, fucking Brazil-

   9. MJMo Jassim1:01:19

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       ... clearly, duh.

   11. MJMo Jassim1:01:20

       Exactly.

   12. GRGordon Ryan1:01:20

       The, over the next five years, there'll definitely be more Brazilian, maybe even 10 years, more Brazilian champions than, than any other country, um, per ADCC. But, uh, the next decade, I think, you'll start to see a shift, where it's more Americans, more Europeans.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

       And are there good guys coming out of Russia, like you were talking about? Has that happened yet?

   14. GRGordon Ryan1:01:38

       Not yet, because most of them just are too busy wrestling, or they go right to MMA.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Yeah.

   16. GRGordon Ryan1:01:43

       Um, but I think as... And a lot of the Sambo guys kind of clash and think Jujitsu is like soft or whatever the case is.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       Hmm.

   18. GRGordon Ryan1:01:49

       Um, but, uh, I think as the sport grows in popularity, and especially when there's more money pushed into it, I think you're gonna have people who are dedicated from a young age, who are very good at wrestling, like near Olympic level in wrestling, but not good enough to make the Olympics, so they do Jujitsu instead. And they have like Olympic level wrestling with high level intricate Jujitsu. And that's gonna be, that's gonna be an issue. Because the main, the main hole, one of the big, uh, the two major holes over the last decade in, in Jujitsu has been, um, leg locks, which is now starting, the gap starting to be filled there. Um, and the integration of standing and ground techniques. Um, the standing position in Jujitsu is terrible. Um, the wrestling for Jujitsu rule sets is mostly terrible. Um, but when you have Olympic caliber wrestlers who have been trained in Jujitsu since they're five years old-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:42

       Hmm.

   20. GRGordon Ryan1:02:42

       ... you're gonna have a real issue.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:44

       Yeah.

   22. GRGordon Ryan1:02:45

       So...

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:46

       What needs to be done to get more eyes on it? 'Cause right now, to me, it seems like I know you guys sold thousands of tickets, but those are probably thousands of Jujitsu students.

   24. GRGordon Ryan1:02:57

       Well, I'll be honest-

   25. MJMo Jassim1:02:58

       We gotta do more Rogan shows. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:00

       (laughs) That'll, that'll help a little.

   27. MJMo Jassim1:03:01

       I'll be honest with you. So 2019, me and my team, realistically we worked on it for four months. Um, we didn't really give it our 100%. But the best feedback I had at 2019 was a middle-aged woman comes up to me, and she's like, "I just came here 'cause my son asked me to come, and I had a great time." So my whole thing is, I need to cater to the masses. If I only cater to Jujitsu fans, I'm not gonna grow. So how do I do that? For this one, you know, one of the biggest influences for me was Pride FC. So we're going very heavy on the production, and I bring up this analogy all the time. How many UFC fans actually train a combat sport? It's probably less than 1%. NFL is what, 1% of one... You know, no one trains it. So I need to get the masses and not just cater to Jujitsu fans. So that's, that's where my goal is with this event.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:03:51

       The problem is that Jujitsu, watching Jujitsu is not that exciting until someone submits somebody. Whereas watching MMA, everybody understands what's going on. "That guy kicked that guy, that guy punched that guy. Oh my God, he's got his neck."

   29. GRGordon Ryan1:04:04

       It, that, that's the, that's the big thing is it starts at the athletes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:08

       Hmm.

Episode duration: 2:12:57