JRE MMA Show #15 with Brendan Schaub

Brendan Schaub 0:00 (Joe hums) I might do a show with Diaz in New York.

Joe Rogan 0:05 Boom! Live? Uh, Jamie's giving me the not sure look. Yes!

Brendan Schaub 0:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Uh, you and Joey Diaz talking about doing a show in, in New York. Where?

Brendan Schaub 0:16 Maybe, man. Damn.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Where at? Where at?

Brendan Schaub 0:17 Maybe, brother.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Oh, okay. You don't wanna talk about it?

Brendan Schaub 0:18 Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Um-

Brendan Schaub 0:19 Need to find that shit.

Joe Rogan 0:20 You want to hear... I got a Joey Diaz story. We're going to do a show with me and Joey and Yoel motherfucking Romero. And he's gonna talk to him if he gets confused in, in, in Spanish.

Brendan Schaub 0:29 Oh, that's gonna be amazing.

Joe Rogan 0:30 You know, 'cause Joey's from Cuba. Dude, are you kidding me?

Brendan Schaub 0:32 So Joey Diaz is gonna translate?

Joe Rogan 0:33 He was... Joe... It's totally Joey's idea. Joey says...

Brendan Schaub 0:36 It's a brilliant idea.

Joe Rogan 0:37 "Bro, I've been talking to him. I love this fucking guy. We'd have an amazing podcast, you and me. You throwing the questions at him. If shit gets weird, I come to him in Spanish. We'll understand each other better."

Brendan Schaub 0:46 It's a brilliant idea.

Joe Rogan 0:47 This is what Joey said. He said, uh... He goes, "Tell him that I want to be on his podcast because he has love for Cuba and under... He understands Cuban love."

Brendan Schaub 0:56 Love it. Love it.

Joe Rogan 0:58 I was like, that... All that shit that he was doing to Luke Rockhold after he knocked him out-

Brendan Schaub 1:01 Bro, back up.

Joe Rogan 1:01 ... like, that's intense. That's intense.

Brendan Schaub 1:03 Gi- give me a few minutes. You just knocked me into freaking-

Joe Rogan 1:06 That's intense.

Brendan Schaub 1:07 ... Puerto Vallarta. Give me a fucking second to get my wits about me and then kiss me on the lips or wherever the fuck you want to do it.

Joe Rogan 1:14 His ability to just be calm and then explode is very terrifying. It's only helped by him telling you he loves you.

Brendan Schaub 1:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:23 (laughs) He's, he's more terrifying than ever!

Brendan Schaub 1:26 It's scary 'cause he's such a nice guy outside.

Joe Rogan 1:29 (clicks tongue) Dude, he is the nicest guy. He's very friendly, you know.

Brendan Schaub 1:32 Remember the champ, though, was like, "Oh yeah, that's what you do? You're Whitaker, you know. Whitaker's a monster, man."

Joe Rogan 1:36 You gotta go back to that Tim Kennedy fight though, man.

Brendan Schaub 1:40 Talking about Stuergate?

Joe Rogan 1:40 Yeah, that Tim Kennedy fight was crazy. It was like, look, I know what you're doing is very slick. This is very smart. I mean, this is... Angelo Dundee did that to Muhammad Ali when he fought Henry Cooper in London. He got cracked with a left hook. Henry Cooper dropped him, he was in real trouble. They cut the glove, baby!

Brendan Schaub 1:59 Suspect.

Joe Rogan 1:59 Cut that glove, baby! We gotta get the other pair. Oh, it's out there in the dressing room. Be right back.

Brendan Schaub 2:04 It's all fair in love and war, my man.

Joe Rogan 2:06 And they go... Yeah, it ain't the right way to do it, but you gotta, you gotta realize that this guy had gone through the whole amateur wrestling system as a representative of Cuba. What... The... Matt Brown and I did a podcast last week, and Matt Brown spent-

Brendan Schaub 2:19 Love Matt.

Joe Rogan 2:19 He's a great guy. And fascinating dude, man. Intense, smart motherfucker. People-

Brendan Schaub 2:24 Matt died.

Joe Rogan 2:25 People get a chance to... He did. He di- he died and they brought him back.

Brendan Schaub 2:28 Matt died.

Joe Rogan 2:29 Yeah, you know, we talked about that. I was like-

Brendan Schaub 2:31 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:31 You and Court McGee both have this, like, creepy thing to you 'cause you both crossed over to the other side and you don't give a fuck.

Brendan Schaub 2:37 And how was it?

Joe Rogan 2:38 Whoo! Both guys, man, you gotta beat them. They don't beat each other.

Brendan Schaub 2:41 You literally have to take them out.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Or they don't beat themselves, rather.

Brendan Schaub 2:43 No.

Joe Rogan 2:44 Yeah. I mean, Matt Brown ain't beating himself. Like he's, he's a human.

Brendan Schaub 2:46 What's he doing now?

Joe Rogan 2:48 He is gonna fight Carlos Condit.

Brendan Schaub 2:50 Oh, that's right. He's coming back for... What... Just...

Joe Rogan 2:52 Whoo!

Brendan Schaub 2:52 He ended, he ended on that dope ass knockdown of Diego-

Joe Rogan 2:56 Whoo!

Brendan Schaub 2:56 ... with the elbow.

Joe Rogan 2:57 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 2:57 Maybe behind the ear, but all's fair.

Joe Rogan 2:59 A little bit. Mm-hmm. A little bit.

Brendan Schaub 3:00 And then... Yeah, I thought he was gonna right off to the sunset, now he's fighting Carlos Condit.

Joe Rogan 3:03 So he was explaining about his camp that he did in Cuba. It's amazing story. Amazing. He spent like six weeks in Cuba.

Brendan Schaub 3:08 Matt Brown?

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yes. Yes.

Brendan Schaub 3:10 His white ass was in Cuba?

Joe Rogan 3:11 His white ass was in Cuba with the wrestling team for six fucking weeks for one of the camps for one of his fights. He boxed in Cuba against B- Cuban boxers and he wrestled in Cuba.

Brendan Schaub 3:19 That's a tough go.

Joe Rogan 3:20 And he lived in, uh, a Cuban fighter's house. They had him there and they, they fed him.

Brendan Schaub 3:24 How long ago?

Joe Rogan 3:25 Which fight was it that he said? I'm trying to remember which fight. If you pull up his, uh-

Brendan Schaub 3:29 I thought you said recently.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Pull up his record, it was fairly recently. It's fairly recently.

Brendan Schaub 3:33 I mean, how old would he be doing that, my man?

Joe Rogan 3:34 Dude, he's a bad motherfucker, dude.

Brendan Schaub 3:35 He's a bad motherfucker, but it's not... He-

Joe Rogan 3:37 He's, he's just trying to get better, man. He's just trying to get better and that's what he figured was the move.

Brendan Schaub 3:42 Well, he, he has one more left though, yeah?

Joe Rogan 3:44 Um...

Brendan Schaub 3:45 Let's be real here.

Joe Rogan 3:45 At least if he wants to do it-

Brendan Schaub 3:47 He's on the Masters Tour.

Joe Rogan 3:48 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 3:48 I lo-... He, he knows I love him, he's on the Masters Tour.

Joe Rogan 3:50 Um, I think he said it was for the Tim Means fight. I'm pretty sure he said it was the Tim Means fight.

Brendan Schaub 3:56 (clears throat) Well then after that, let's get back to Cuba. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:59 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 3:59 'Cause after that it... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:02 (laughs) So rude. (laughs) So rude.

Brendan Schaub 4:04 I'm just saying.

Joe Rogan 4:05 So rude. But look, man.

Brendan Schaub 4:05 You go to Cuba-

Joe Rogan 4:05 If I fight Damien Maia, okay, who is the constrictor of all constrictors.

Brendan Schaub 4:10 Nightmare.

Joe Rogan 4:10 If Damien Maia can get you to the ground, I don't think... M- most people don't understand what that kind of jujitsu feels like. You know? I've rolled with a few guys that were my size that just went through me. Like I realized like, "Oh, okay."

Brendan Schaub 4:24 Yeah. Like Butler? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:24 Like Jake Shields is what I... I talk about him all the time. Wrestling with him is like wrestling with a chimp. Karel Parisyan, same thing. It's like holding onto a chimp. Like good luck, bitch. You might look like me.

Brendan Schaub 4:34 It's a nightmare.

Joe Rogan 4:34 You know? It's like, like you see a guy, like maybe he does CrossFit. You're like, "Oh, that guy looks fucking strong." No, there's a different... There's like a Ben Askren strong, where it doesn't even look strong, just looks like a fit, athletic guy and they grab you and you're like, "What in the fuck is going on here? Why can't I move?"

Brendan Schaub 4:49 And they twist you up.

Joe Rogan 4:49 It's a different kind of strong.

Brendan Schaub 4:50 They move different.

Joe Rogan 4:51 It's a different kind of strong.

Brendan Schaub 4:52 Correct.

Joe Rogan 4:53 Damien Maia's got that strong to strong guys.

Brendan Schaub 4:56 True.

Joe Rogan 4:56 He does that shit to guys like Carlos Condit.

Brendan Schaub 4:59 Correct.

Joe Rogan 4:59 I mean this is, uh... He's the motherfucker of motherfuckers when it comes to strangling people.

Brendan Schaub 5:03 It's a terrible fight for Matt Brown. It's a terrible fight for him.

Joe Rogan 5:04 And what he did to Neil Magny, he just kept closing, closing, closing. It was like watching a goddamn snake. It was like watching a snake take out a deer.

Brendan Schaub 5:12 It was terrifying.

Joe Rogan 5:13 Just slowly get to that back, just tighter and tighter. And every time he corrected, it got tighter and tighter. You see Neil Magny just drowning.

Brendan Schaub 5:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:21 Like, "Fuck!"

Brendan Schaub 5:21 He looked like that zebra in the alligator's mouth. Just like, "Ah!"

Joe Rogan 5:24 You know, I tell you what was equally impressive, man. It's Rafael dos Anjos and Neil Magny. I was like, "Holy fuck, did I read that wrong."

Brendan Schaub 5:31 Me too.

Joe Rogan 5:32 I thought Neil Magny was gonna give him a real good fight. I thought-

Brendan Schaub 5:35 'Cause of his cardio reach?

Joe Rogan 5:36 Cardio, reach, footwork, movement, discipline, sticks to the, to the game plan. Neil Magny's a difficult guy to fight. That Carlos Condit fight-

Brendan Schaub 5:45 Unless, unless you get him down, his jujitsu's his Achilles heel.

Joe Rogan 5:48 Well...... he, I mean, Demian Maia obviously got him, but the way dos Anjos got him was, like, holy fuck, at 170. Dos Anjos is more aggressive-

Brendan Schaub 6:00 He's a motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 6:00 ... and stronger-

Brendan Schaub 6:01 He's a motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 6:03 ... it seems to me. Doesn't it seem he's stronger?

Brendan Schaub 6:04 He's way better. He's way-

Joe Rogan 6:05 Way better at 170.

Brendan Schaub 6:05 He looks healthy, he moves, he has more power.

Joe Rogan 6:07 Yeah. Dude.

Brendan Schaub 6:08 He's putting his combinations better together.

Joe Rogan 6:10 And he's just on the lighter side of being one of those big guys, so it seems like he's got more speed.

Brendan Schaub 6:16 He reminds me kind of, like, Robert Whittaker-

Joe Rogan 6:18 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 6:18 ... where Whi- he, to me, people go, "Oh, he's a little small." He's almost perfect.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Perfect.

Brendan Schaub 6:22 Where he's not huge, he's not muscle-bound-

Joe Rogan 6:24 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 6:24 ... can do everything really well.

Joe Rogan 6:25 Whittaker stuffed Yoel Romero's takedowns with a blown-out knee. He got his knee blown out in the first round and he still stuffed takedowns. Whittaker is-

Brendan Schaub 6:34 Whittaker's a-

Joe Rogan 6:34 ... a fucking-

Brendan Schaub 6:34 ... bad-

Joe Rogan 6:35 ... savage.

Brendan Schaub 6:35 I'm all up on that Australian train right now.

Joe Rogan 6:37 I think it's another thing, where the guy was cutting weight, making 170 and just struggling-

Brendan Schaub 6:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:42 ... man, just struggling. I really wish, the, the way that Ben Askren described how ONE FC's doing it, where they're doing this, um, uh, hydration test.

Brendan Schaub 6:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 6:52 They're doing a hydration test when you weigh in, they're doing a hydration test, like, leading up to the fight, and everybody bumped up a weight class. And he's now, he's, like, at 185, 'cause that's really what he weighs.

Brendan Schaub 7:02 And not to change subjects, but just, just, the, I listen to that Ben Askren, I've always been a huge fan of Ben Askren. I think it's such a shame he never fought in the UFC. I-

Joe Rogan 7:09 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 7:09 ... I think he beats anyone in the world in the UFC, I really do, but-

Joe Rogan 7:11 Well, we would like to see-

Brendan Schaub 7:13 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 7:13 ... at the very least, I mean, maybe-

Brendan Schaub 7:15 I, if I had to bet on it, and I'm a betting man, I'd put some, a lot of dollars on Ben Askren.

Joe Rogan 7:19 What-

Brendan Schaub 7:19 That being said, he's very articulate. He, that man needs to do his own podcast.

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 7:23 He needs to do something as far as entertainment, as far as wrestling-

Joe Rogan 7:26 Well, he does a wrestling podcast.

Brendan Schaub 7:27 ... as far as me concerned.

Joe Rogan 7:27 He was saying he has a wrestling podcast.

Brendan Schaub 7:28 Yeah, hey listeners, I'm just saying-

Joe Rogan 7:29 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 7:29 ... like, he, there's more he could do.

Joe Rogan 7:32 Yeah, I agree with you.

Brendan Schaub 7:32 I thought he was brilliant on that.

Joe Rogan 7:33 No, he's, he's a brilliant guy and he's just smart and unique, like, as a person. And you can either appreciate that or not. And-

Brendan Schaub 7:40 That's marketable, man.

Joe Rogan 7:42 Well, it, it, it is marketable, in my opinion, but it might not be (laughs) 'cause I don't, I'm just coming at it from a point of view from a, as a fan. I mean, I'm a fan.

Brendan Schaub 7:50 Which, which is-

Joe Rogan 7:50 So for me-

Brendan Schaub 7:51 ... what we wanna hear.

Joe Rogan 7:52 ... listen, for me-

Brendan Schaub 7:52 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 7:53 ... I, there's, it's a no-brainer. You wanna see the best versus the best, and he has been able to do weird shit to people. And he's been able to do it-

Brendan Schaub 8:00 Hasn't been hit in, what, three years?

Joe Rogan 8:01 Dude, he said his last two fights he didn't get hit once. (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 8:04 Didn't get, he goes, "I haven't been punched in the face in three years, Joe."

Joe Rogan 8:07 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 8:07 When I hear that, I'm like, "Dude-"

Joe Rogan 8:08 Joe, he's not joking.

Brendan Schaub 8:08 ... "that's so marketable."

Joe Rogan 8:10 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 8:11 It's like-

Joe Rogan 8:11 And he's fucking-

Brendan Schaub 8:11 ... the Floyd Mayweather thing.

Joe Rogan 8:12 ... super articulate, super smart.

Brendan Schaub 8:15 Speaks well.

Joe Rogan 8:15 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 8:15 Smart dude, good-looking-

Joe Rogan 8:16 Fucking great guy.

Brendan Schaub 8:17 ... Olympian.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 8:18 Good dude, married.

Joe Rogan 8:18 He's a character.

Brendan Schaub 8:19 He's a coach, for God sakes-

Joe Rogan 8:21 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 8:21 ... wrestling, kids.

Joe Rogan 8:22 (sighs) I, I'm not a promoter. I'm not a promoter. I have no say. And I don't want it. I don't want it.

Brendan Schaub 8:27 I'm, can't you just get-

Joe Rogan 8:28 I'm too busy.

Brendan Schaub 8:28 ... Dan as a hearing spike? "Yo, l- let me, let me holla at you, dawg."

Joe Rogan 8:30 He's just-

Brendan Schaub 8:30 "L- listen, I know you're stressed to the gills right now."

Joe Rogan 8:32 He's got-

Brendan Schaub 8:32 "Let me talk to you for a second."

Joe Rogan 8:32 He's, look, he knows how to promote. He's a promoter.

Brendan Schaub 8:35 When, when he, when he-

Joe Rogan 8:36 I, I don't know jack shit about promotion. I could be wrong. I might just be such a purist that I want the best to fight the best so much I don't give a fuck what it looks like.

Brendan Schaub 8:43 You know the sport. You know the sport. Don't sell yourself short. I guarantee you we could sell Ben Askren. If you and I put on a promotion, I guarantee you I could sell Ben Askren.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Oh, uh, I guarantee I could get into people's heads why this is important. It's, it's important if the art form is important. If it's just important to put on a good show, then, you know, you could always have guys just stand in the middle of the octagon and throwing lead at each other and let's see what happens.

Brendan Schaub 9:07 There's no longevity in that.

Joe Rogan 9:08 You can always do that. There's no longevity in that, but it's very entertaining and there have been moments (clears throat) , like, uh, when Francisco Rivera and John Lineker just fucking threw down at each other-

Brendan Schaub 9:17 For sure.

Joe Rogan 9:17 ... until one guy broke. That's, I do not recommend anybody fighting like that, but that shit is crazy to watch, it's undeniable. That's gonna get the people out of their seats. That's gonna get people freaking out about it.

Brendan Schaub 9:29 You gotta sprinkle that kinda style in every now and then. That's fun.

Joe Rogan 9:31 R- right.

Brendan Schaub 9:32 But as a sport-

Joe Rogan 9:32 Right.

Brendan Schaub 9:32 ... we can't do that.

Joe Rogan 9:33 I think, but every now and then, when something like that happens, like with, uh, Ricardo Lamas and, uh, Max Holloway-

Brendan Schaub 9:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:40 ... when Max Holloway pointed down at the ground-

Brendan Schaub 9:41 And just was like-

Joe Rogan 9:42 ... and was like, "Come on, bitch." A fight he was already winning.

Brendan Schaub 9:44 Motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 9:45 But that, that shows you who Max is, man.

Brendan Schaub 9:47 I love that guy.

Joe Rogan 9:47 That's real shit.

Brendan Schaub 9:47 The motherfucker's bad. The motherfucker's bad.

Joe Rogan 9:50 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 9:50 I'm such a fan.

Joe Rogan 9:51 Me too.

Brendan Schaub 9:52 I'm such a fan.

Joe Rogan 9:52 I love him.

Brendan Schaub 9:52 With the, with this, with this new Showtime show I'm doing at the, I interviewed Frankie, and it's tough for me 'cause I'm so, I love Frankie, but I'm such, like, a Max Holloway fan. It's tough for me not to show the favoritism.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Mm, you know what, man? I might be a-

Brendan Schaub 10:05 I love both of 'em.

Joe Rogan 10:06 I might be a-

Brendan Schaub 10:07 I've known Frankie longer.

Joe Rogan 10:09 Yeah. I'm, I know Frankie way better. I'm a giant Max Holloway fan, but I have to do this thing that I do, where I don't want anybody to win. I just wanna see what the result is.

Brendan Schaub 10:19 See, I don't want-

Joe Rogan 10:19 I have to do that thing.

Brendan Schaub 10:19 ... I don't want anyone to lose. I'm not good at that. You're, you're one of the best in the world to do it.

Joe Rogan 10:23 It's still hard though, man.

Brendan Schaub 10:24 I'm not, I'm not good at that. Like, I don't want anyone to lose. Like, I love Yoel Romero and I love Luke, but I've been on-

Joe Rogan 10:30 I love you!

Brendan Schaub 10:30 I love you guy, Jesus! But I, uh, I know what those guys feel like when they lose and there's everything on the table. I know what, for Luke, how he changed camps and sometimes-

Joe Rogan 10:40 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 10:40 ... that's just, you're on a boat and there, and, and there's holes in it and you think you're, if you paddle further away from the original camp, you're gonna fill these holes. It doesn't work like that.

Joe Rogan 10:47 Well, I think maybe he-

Brendan Schaub 10:47 So I know by him leaving-

Joe Rogan 10:48 ... just needed a fresh f- look. I mean, it might've been a good move for him, but he fought Yoel Romero. I mean, the reality is, Yoel Romero is fucking horrifying.

Brendan Schaub 10:57 He's horrifying. Luke can beat him. Luke can beat him.

Joe Rogan 11:00 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 11:00 Yeah, the-

Joe Rogan 11:00 Luke, he might be able to, but he also might be able to get hit exactly like he got hit in that fight every time they fight. Dude, it, you don't know, man.

Brendan Schaub 11:07 And I, I, I'm saying I don't know. I've seen, I've seen a better-

Joe Rogan 11:10 Luke is a beast.

Brendan Schaub 11:10 ... I've seen a better version of Luke. To, to me, as far as skill-wise, besides Whittaker right now, he's on another level. But I look at the roster and to me, Luke is the most complete middleweight in the world. I can even see him being the light heavyweight champion.

Joe Rogan 11:22 Mm.

Brendan Schaub 11:22 Gusfin might give him some problems. Besides Gusfin in it, it, there, there's gonna be some issues for those guys.

Joe Rogan 11:26 Who knows? Maybe him going, I mean, he's been talking about an inevitable climb to 205. He might be just like Whittaker, and just like, um, (clicks tongue) uh, who else were we talking about? Rafael dos Anjos.

Brendan Schaub 11:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:37 Might be, he might be the, a better fighter at 205. He might be, I mean, he's so fucking lean, man.

Brendan Schaub 11:41 The, the pro- the problem there is, what made Luke so great was that swagger. Like-

Joe Rogan 11:45 Right.

Brendan Schaub 11:45 ... the people were like, "Oh, he's so cocky." I get that, I actually want my fighter like that. I liked how he was so arrogant and cocky.

Joe Rogan 11:51 Mm.

Brendan Schaub 11:51 Sometimes people don't gravitate towards it, but for a guy like Luke, he just, he thrived off that. And now, when I see him, I, I, you know, when I, his la- in the Branch fight, I didn't see it as much. I thought the- that fight was a little suspect. Not, n- not taking anything away from Branch, but that should've been easier for Luke.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 12:06 And then I see the Yoel Romero fight and I just, that killer instinct wasn't there. He's very, I know you have five rounds, but he would let Yoel explode and reset. When you reset, you gotta go, man. You gotta go.

Joe Rogan 12:17 Branch might not have the b- best results inside the octagon, but when it comes to technical skill, he's a super high-level fighter. His sk- his skill level and his capabilities, I don't think have matched up to all of his performances.... and you saw that when he was attacking Luke. He's fucking good, man. He put him in real trouble.

Brendan Schaub 12:34 Oh, I'm not saying he's not good.

Joe Rogan 12:35 He was very... Oh, he's very good.

Brendan Schaub 12:35 Oh, I'm not saying that. No. No.

Joe Rogan 12:36 And his ground game is very good, but it makes Luke's win even more impressive.

Brendan Schaub 12:40 For sure, but Branch has never... Wh- In world series of fighting, he kind of, you know, became light heavyweight champion, middleweight champion. He's a monster, right?

Joe Rogan 12:47 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 12:47 In the UFC, he just... He hasn't found his groove yet.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Right.

Brendan Schaub 12:50 He j- And he never has.

Joe Rogan 12:51 Right.

Brendan Schaub 12:52 Now, I don't... You know, a l- lot of it's level of competition.

Joe Rogan 12:54 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 12:54 You know, his first fight in the UFC was, you know, boring, and then, he get Luke Rockhold, which is no walk in the park. So, I, I do think Dave Branch is a monster. Renzo Gracie black belt.

Joe Rogan 13:01 Well, this is his second vir- round in the UFC.

Brendan Schaub 13:04 Correct.

Joe Rogan 13:04 Remember when he fought Gerald Harris-

Brendan Schaub 13:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:05 ... and he got KO'd with that crazy slam from the guard?

Brendan Schaub 13:07 Yes. He didn't have a good career before.

Joe Rogan 13:08 That was nuts.

Brendan Schaub 13:08 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 13:09 That was a g- That was a v- crazy. Gerald Harris is a powerful man.

Brendan Schaub 13:13 Monster. I'm, I'm just saying, with, with Luke, it was this swagger where he thought he was the best in the world.

Joe Rogan 13:17 Right.

Brendan Schaub 13:18 He was in Strikeforce.

Joe Rogan 13:18 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 13:18 This is when he got to the UFC, when he was champion.

Joe Rogan 13:20 Right.

Brendan Schaub 13:21 And then, in the Bisping fight, he gets clipped with that left hook and he has problems with the, with left, th- the left side for him.

Joe Rogan 13:26 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 13:27 So, you know, Bisping lands that, knocks him out, that short notice fight. He thought he was gonna walk through him. Then, he takes that long layoff, and he's, he's trying to be a male model, and-

Joe Rogan 13:34 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 13:34 ... you know, arguing with the UFC. It's just... And, and somewhere along the lines, he, he lost a little bit of swagger. When he gets that back, we're in good form.

Joe Rogan 13:41 Well, um, I'm curious to see what his journey with Henri Hooft, where that comes up.

Brendan Schaub 13:46 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 13:46 'Cause they've been... They... How l- How long have they been together now, like a year?

Brendan Schaub 13:50 Maybe a year, yeah, he moved out there.

Joe Rogan 13:52 A year? Henri's an interesting coach, man. He's a fucking powerful guy.

Brendan Schaub 13:55 He's one of the best.

Joe Rogan 13:55 He's a very powerful guy, but it's-

Brendan Schaub 13:57 You know what... You know what he doesn't have is DC and Cain Velasquez-

Joe Rogan 14:01 Right. Right.

Brendan Schaub 14:01 ... and Khabib-

Joe Rogan 14:02 Right.

Brendan Schaub 14:02 ... and Josh Thompson-

Joe Rogan 14:03 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 14:03 And these, these monsters. You're surrounded by just these monsters.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 14:06 Who's he training with? And ha- has he addressed that left side where it keeps getting hit, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:10 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 14:11 Which... What put him out-

Joe Rogan 14:12 Left.

Brendan Schaub 14:13 ... was his left.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Yeah. The two lefts.

Brendan Schaub 14:14 Two lefts. That uppercut-

Joe Rogan 14:16 Ooh.

Brendan Schaub 14:16 ... was like a free-for-all.

Joe Rogan 14:17 Oh.

Brendan Schaub 14:17 Like, Mark Goddard, get a little closer. You gotta get a little closer.

Joe Rogan 14:21 Yeah. That would've been hard to get in the way of, though.

Brendan Schaub 14:22 So... So you don't have yo mero just fucking-

Joe Rogan 14:24 Right.

Brendan Schaub 14:24 Think about it. It's hitting as hard-

Joe Rogan 14:26 With the smash.

Brendan Schaub 14:26 ... as you can with yo m- yo mero smash.

Joe Rogan 14:29 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 14:29 Literally, he's punching a human as hard as they can.

Joe Rogan 14:31 I didn't think it was a bad stoppage because he had his head up when he went down, and you gotta give one guy a chance to hit him. Now, looking at it after the fact, you go, "Man, I wish he didn't get hit with that uppercut." The fight was already over. But in the moment-

Brendan Schaub 14:45 In real time, agree.

Joe Rogan 14:45 ... what if it doesn't happen?

Brendan Schaub 14:47 I'm talking shit.

Joe Rogan 14:47 What if he doesn't hit him? Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 14:48 Yeah. With Mark Goddard, I, I hear you, unless he ran a 4.2.40, you're not getting away.

Joe Rogan 14:51 I think it's a perfect stoppage. I mean, I think the first one, you don't really stop it yet. You gotta see what's going on.

Brendan Schaub 14:57 Flatlined this motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Is he gonna be okay?

Brendan Schaub 14:58 Let's flatline him.

Joe Rogan 14:58 But you don't know. You never know.

Brendan Schaub 15:00 I hear you.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Right?

Brendan Schaub 15:01 With that one, you kinda know.

Joe Rogan 15:02 I know... Kinda, but after the fact, we're saying that.

Brendan Schaub 15:05 Ah, so mo- I also have the angle video.

Joe Rogan 15:06 In the moment, like Frankie Edgar. Let's talk about Frankie Edgar. That fucking guy is a zombie. He comes back from the dead. He gets cracked by Gray Maynard in two fights to the point where it looks like it's over.

Brendan Schaub 15:14 I'm glad you brought this up.

Joe Rogan 15:15 It's over.

Brendan Schaub 15:16 Because-

Joe Rogan 15:17 He's been rocked and he, he comes back in the most incredible way.

Brendan Schaub 15:20 When, when, when I, I sit down with him and we're talking about that, and we were talking about concussions and CT 'cause they have kids and stuff. And I said, "Like, that Gray Maynard fight, you know, you, you were concussed and you came back." He goes... What's crazy was... (laughs) I don't wanna ruin the interview with this. What's crazy about that, Brendan, is, uh, wasn't concussed, no signs at all. I went, "S- I'm gonna stop you. I'm gonna stop you. Who told you?" He goes, "Didn't even throw up." I went, "So that's your sign for not concussed? You didn't throw up?" He said... (laughs) That is such a bro sign, Frankie. Look at me when I tell you this. You had brain trauma in that fight, man.

Joe Rogan 15:50 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 15:50 Fucking telling you, bro.

Joe Rogan 15:51 There's no way he didn't. It's impossible. I mean, maybe he'll recover 100%.

Brendan Schaub 15:55 He's the best, man.

Joe Rogan 15:55 But the, the fucking heart that it took to come back from that and draw-

Brendan Schaub 15:59 Legend.

Joe Rogan 15:59 ... in one fight and then KO him in the second fight.

Brendan Schaub 16:01 Legend, brother.

Joe Rogan 16:02 Fucking crazy.

Brendan Schaub 16:02 And what's crazy, if you look at Frankie's record, you know, when they toss him to Yair Rodriguez as the-

Joe Rogan 16:07 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 16:07 ... you know, the- these young cats-

Joe Rogan 16:08 Woo!

Brendan Schaub 16:08 ... he eats them up-

Joe Rogan 16:10 Eats them up.

Brendan Schaub 16:10 ... like Kobayashi. Did you see the Brian Doherty/Cub Swanson fight?

Joe Rogan 16:13 Now, Ortega.

Brendan Schaub 16:13 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 16:14 He does this to these young kids, man.

Brendan Schaub 16:15 Brian Ortega is a totally different animal, though.

Joe Rogan 16:18 And can-

Brendan Schaub 16:18 Totally different animal if he gets ahold of your neck.

Joe Rogan 16:20 You cannot fuck around with that dude on the ground. We're talking real high-level jiu-jitsu.

Brendan Schaub 16:25 He beat Cub Swanson basically twice.

Joe Rogan 16:27 I don't think... Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 16:27 He got saved by the bell and then got his neck again.

Joe Rogan 16:29 I don't think people who are watching him are yet 100% aware of what he's capable of. He's a fucking killer on the ground, dude. He cinches shit up at one of the highest levels I've ever seen in that division.

Brendan Schaub 16:43 You should see him in training and practice.

Joe Rogan 16:45 I can't imagine.

Brendan Schaub 16:45 I mean, I've known Brian forever, and he, he's a guy where, you know, the... One of the reasons why he got so good, remember, he teaches at the Gracie Academy in Torrance-

Joe Rogan 16:52 Right.

Brendan Schaub 16:52 ... nonstop.

Joe Rogan 16:53 Right. That's a big thing, technique.

Brendan Schaub 16:54 And he's constantly teaching, helping everyone. He's a great kid, man.

Joe Rogan 16:57 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 16:57 Monster.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Dude, his triangle-

Brendan Schaub 16:59 He's so quick.

Joe Rogan 16:59 ... is one of the best I've ever seen. It's so quick. He, he's so fucking nasty-

Brendan Schaub 17:04 (clears throat) He has a million setups.

Joe Rogan 17:04 ... off of his back.

Brendan Schaub 17:05 He has a million setups.

Joe Rogan 17:06 He has a million setups and the fucking dexterity of his legs, man. And when he cinches shit up, it's super high level.

Brendan Schaub 17:12 And I've talked about it for a long time, with, with guys with that high-level jiu-jitsu, you know, a lot of them wanna wrestle nonstop, and they're trying to get back that-

Joe Rogan 17:18 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 17:18 ... but the wrestling hasn't caught up to their jiu-jitsu. With him, he's not afraid to jump to guard. He's not afraid to do flying triangles. He's not afraid to jump to half guard. He doesn't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Yeah, he can do anything.

Brendan Schaub 17:27 That's how, that's how he was raised-

Joe Rogan 17:28 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 17:28 ... into this, where Rener Gracie and Ryron Gracie just, "Hey, man, don't be scared. Off your back. You're beating dudes."

Joe Rogan 17:33 Yeah, it's a really interesting combination of boxing, 'cause now he's become a very good boxer, so his hands, which are... He's very comfortable boxing. And then guys are trying to take him down, right? And that was the fight before this last one, right? The dude tried to take him down.

Brendan Schaub 17:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:48 He got guillotined.

Brendan Schaub 17:49 Yep. And he was pulling things out. It- it went late, and then, he'd pull off these late submissions 'cause guys would tire, but you give him an inch, he takes a mile with your neck.

Joe Rogan 17:56 When he got ahold of Cub's neck, you could see, like-

Brendan Schaub 17:59 It's scary as shit.

Joe Rogan 17:59 ... it's just a whole nother level of squeeze and technique and sharpness. You know, everything is in the perfect place, and everything has perfect leverage. And when he grabs ahold of something, he cinches it up real quick.

Brendan Schaub 18:10 And he believes in it wholeheartedly.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Like, 100%.

Brendan Schaub 18:12 Like, if he, if he gets it, he goes, "Oh, this is over."

Joe Rogan 18:14 Right.

Brendan Schaub 18:14 He's done it to everybody.

Joe Rogan 18:15 Yeah, he's done it to everybody.

Brendan Schaub 18:15 He does it to... He's done it to so many people in training.

Joe Rogan 18:17 With the smash.

Brendan Schaub 18:17 He does it to every... High, high... I won't say names. High, high-level dudes-

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 18:20 ... in training, where you're like, "Holy fuck."

Joe Rogan 18:22 Super legit. Super legit. That is a fucking dangerous fight for Frankie to accept on short notice.

Brendan Schaub 18:26 How gangster is Frankie?

Joe Rogan 18:27 Frankie's as gangster-

Brendan Schaub 18:28 Go, "I'll take that killer."

Joe Rogan 18:29 ... as it gets.

Brendan Schaub 18:29 Legend, man.

Joe Rogan 18:29 Gangster as it gets.

Brendan Schaub 18:30 Yeah, but now-

Joe Rogan 18:31 Different fight. Different fight.

Brendan Schaub 18:32 Brian Ortega has a different fight on his hands, too-

Joe Rogan 18:34 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 18:34 ... because he comes...... I mean, it took... He's not... It's gonna be tough to take Frankie down, but what Brian does have, he has the size advantage.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 18:40 He doesn't have speed advantage, he doesn't have the wrestling advantage. I think Frankie puts everything do- together better. As far as killer instinct-

Joe Rogan 18:46 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 18:46 ... Ortega. That's his X factor.

Joe Rogan 18:48 I read the other day that Frankie's never been finished. I went, "Wow."

Brendan Schaub 18:52 Yeah, when you think about it-

Joe Rogan 18:53 That's incredible. That's incredible. He's never been submitted?

Brendan Schaub 18:57 And he also has, uh, that Ricardo Almeida as his jiu-jitsu coach who he trains with every day.

Joe Rogan 19:01 Yeah. And he's with, uh, Marlon Moraes too, right? Same camp?

Brendan Schaub 19:05 Marlon, yeah, Marlon Moraes.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 19:06 They got Frankie, they got Eddie Alvarez, who's a monster.

Joe Rogan 19:10 Woo!

Brendan Schaub 19:10 And they're training every single day.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Woo!

Brendan Schaub 19:12 Oh, and, and Barboza.

Joe Rogan 19:15 Die!

Brendan Schaub 19:15 That's their camp. Oh, and their leader? Happen to be the best mind in the game, Mark Henry.

Joe Rogan 19:20 Dude, that's a hell of a camp right there. That's a hell of a camp.

Brendan Schaub 19:24 It's ridiculous, and they're, you know, for, for Eddie Alvarez and Frankie-

Joe Rogan 19:28 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 19:28 ... and Barboza, it's just like this perfect storm of killers.

Joe Rogan 19:32 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 19:32 And then you have this brilliant mind, the Einstein of mixed martial arts in Mark Henry who's just this fucking savage, man.

Joe Rogan 19:38 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 19:39 It's brilliant what they're doing up there.

Joe Rogan 19:42 Yeah, it's, uh, one of the hot camps, right?

Brendan Schaub 19:44 I had- I had- I asked Frankie, I said, "Were you- were you surprised what happened with, you know, Barboza and Khabib?" He goes- he goes, "Dude, Barboza's a motherfucker to take down. Like, Eddie and I have struggled, man." I said, "Think how good Khabib is."

Joe Rogan 19:57 Scary. Scary.

Brendan Schaub 19:59 Scary.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Scary.

Brendan Schaub 20:00 That Khabib-Tony fight, son.

Joe Rogan 20:02 I have-

Brendan Schaub 20:02 It's my number one fight I wanna see this year.

Joe Rogan 20:04 There's just people that I think have evolved from generation after generation after generation of grappler, you know? And there seems to be something happening with those- those Russian folks and those Dagestan folks and especially him with his dad being this fucking amazing trainer. He's just-

Brendan Schaub 20:24 Just tougher than us, Joe.

Joe Rogan 20:26 Tougher.

Brendan Schaub 20:26 We're not the same.

Joe Rogan 20:27 It's- something happens when he grabs ahold of guys that you just don't see. It's just-

Brendan Schaub 20:31 Barboza's face was like, "What-"

Joe Rogan 20:32 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 20:33 "... the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 20:34 He's just getting run over by a freight train, just a guy with unstoppable pressure, constant punches to the face. You're never getting up. You feel it. You know you're never getting up and if you do get up, it's gonna cost you so much energy to get up, you're gonna be exhausted. And then you know this guy can take you down again. If he takes you down again, you're three quarters helpless. Three quarters helpless. Next round, you're gonna be half helpless. Next th- round-

Brendan Schaub 20:57 Gotta hope he's not a five then.

Joe Rogan 20:57 ... after that, you're basically helpless. You're just-

Brendan Schaub 20:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:59 ... tough. You're just surviving on your- your toughness and you're, you know he's gonna take you down again and beat your face in again.

Brendan Schaub 21:04 It's like ISIS torture, man. I'd rather just get murked real fast by Francis than fight Khabib. It's a savage, slow death.

Joe Rogan 21:10 It's a savage, slow fight, but here's the thing. He's never fought anybody like Tony. Tony is so different. He's so different.

Brendan Schaub 21:19 Completely different animal.

Joe Rogan 21:20 He's so different. He's so dangerous on his feet, he's hard to take down, he scrambles like crazy. He's- he's well aware of what it takes to protect himself on the ground, he takes a tremendous shot, he's got crazy darces, he pulls darces up on people that are- that are like... You know, he did the Barboza, remember that fucking-

Brendan Schaub 21:38 Correct.

Joe Rogan 21:38 ... crazy-ass fight?

Brendan Schaub 21:39 Correct, correct.

Joe Rogan 21:39 And he slaps that darse on him? That darse is tight, son.

Brendan Schaub 21:42 He's- his darse is world-class. Here's the X factor with Tony and Khabib, is to me, Tony's getting taken down.

Joe Rogan 21:48 Right.

Brendan Schaub 21:48 I can sure- I swear, I'd bet my life saving that he gets taken down. That's not the fight.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Right.

Brendan Schaub 21:53 The fight starts once they hit the ground 'cause Tony Ferguson off his back is a s- monster.

Joe Rogan 21:58 A monster. Everything.

Brendan Schaub 21:58 From elbows to his triangle, like he's training with Kevin Lee.

Joe Rogan 22:01 Yep.

Brendan Schaub 22:01 Now, Kevin Lee's different grappler than Khabib but still, his setups, but his elbows, w- you- if you rest, he's gonna whoop your ass from his back.

Joe Rogan 22:08 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 22:09 So to me, that fight happens on the ground. We gotta- you gotta be careful of who's judging that fight because it- Tony can win even if he's whooping his ass from his back, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 22:19 Well, yes, it is- it is entirely possible that Tony could be hitting him and trying to attack with submissions. And you don't like doing MMA math, but they both fought Barboza and Tony was able to finish him.

Brendan Schaub 22:31 Tony's- has a better resume, for sure.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Well, he finishes guys, you know? I mean, he catches guys that are really high level with jiu-jitsu techniques. I mean, especially that darse, super dangerous.

Brendan Schaub 22:43 Kha- Khabib, we- we- you know exactly what he's gonna do, he's- he... You know, his striking isn't world-class, but his grappling, his pressure, everything else is world-class. We also haven't seen him five rounds. Five rounds with Tony is a tough task, man.

Joe Rogan 22:55 It's a tough task.

Brendan Schaub 22:55 'Cause Tony gets better.

Joe Rogan 22:57 But-

Brendan Schaub 22:57 He thrives in that kinda dog situation where you just go and go and go and-

Joe Rogan 23:01 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 23:01 So to me, you know, for Khabib, if it goes that fourth, fifth round, man-

Joe Rogan 23:05 Who knows? It's- it's- well, we don't know, you know?

Brendan Schaub 23:08 That's why- that's what-

Joe Rogan 23:09 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 23:09 That's why this fight's so good to me. That's why it's my number one fight this year. I swear to God, if either one of them gets hurt, I'm gonna cry.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Oh, you get me so excited. Yeah, and seeing as-

Brendan Schaub 23:16 And then think about St- let me just fucking get your dick out-

Joe Rogan 23:19 Wait a minute.

Brendan Schaub 23:19 ... Stipe, DC.

Joe Rogan 23:21 That's a great fight too.

Brendan Schaub 23:22 That's a super fight.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 23:24 That's a fucking super fight. We talk about all these super fights, that's a legit super fight.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Yeah. That is a super fight, right?

Brendan Schaub 23:32 It- it's such a close fight-

Joe Rogan 23:33 It's a very good fight.

Brendan Schaub 23:34 ... and DC's undefeated at heavyweight, was a former world champion-

Joe Rogan 23:37 No.

Brendan Schaub 23:37 ... from Strike Force.

Joe Rogan 23:39 It's also, when you see DC wrestle Volkan, you go, "Oh, there are levels to this shit, kid." (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 23:46 Correct. (laughs) Oh, Volkan-

Joe Rogan 23:47 He's-

Brendan Schaub 23:47 ... you got time, son.

Joe Rogan 23:48 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 23:48 You got time. You got time now. You got time to work on your wrestling.

Joe Rogan 23:52 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 23:53 I'm just kidding, I love you, Volkan. But- but the thing is, is-

Joe Rogan 23:56 That shit's funny though.

Brendan Schaub 23:57 It's funny, but he actually looked really good, like he'll-

Joe Rogan 24:00 He looked really good.

Brendan Schaub 24:00 The, uh, I've been in that clinch with DC and that is no picnic.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 24:03 He threw me around like a rag doll.

Joe Rogan 24:05 He did real good until he didn't do good anymore and then DC did-

Brendan Schaub 24:08 That's DC.

Joe Rogan 24:08 ... exactly what he said he was gonna do. By the end of the round, he had his neck and he just was saved by the bell, and then when he went to the second round, th- you know, you could tell what was going on.

Brendan Schaub 24:15 How big is DC?

Joe Rogan 24:16 DC's amazing. He's amazing. That just shows you how fucking great Jon Jones is. That's- that's the whole top of the pyramid. If you're Jon Jones-

Brendan Schaub 24:24 ... you look at the- the top of the spear and you go, "What? Okay."

Joe Rogan 24:27 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 24:27 "Jesus, how good is this guy!"

Joe Rogan 24:28 Yeah and Jon- and Jon trained for one week and was high off his ass.

Brendan Schaub 24:31 Yeah, listen man-

Joe Rogan 24:31 That's how good he is. He's a fucking wizard. He's on another level.

Brendan Schaub 24:35 Best of all time PDs things, whatever.

Joe Rogan 24:37 Phenomenal.

Brendan Schaub 24:37 But however, with D- if you're Jon, you're sitting at home right now in your underwear thinking about the bad decisions you've made in your hope- your hope- hopefully that you're gonna get back in the UFC. DC's taking your career path.

Joe Rogan 24:48 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 24:48 'Cause Jon always wanted to go to heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Yep.

Brendan Schaub 24:50 Wanted to fight Stipe, wanted to do all the shit.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Yep.

Brendan Schaub 24:52 DC goes, "Oh, cool. Hold my beer." And then just does his thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:56 Dude, can you imagine how big DC would be-

Brendan Schaub 24:57 Oh, cool. Hold my dick pills, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 25:00 ... if Jon- Jon comes back and DC beats him?Do you know how big he would be? Do you know how crazy that would be?

Brendan Schaub 25:07 That, that'd be crazy. That'd be-

Joe Rogan 25:08 How about if they fought at heavyweight?

Brendan Schaub 25:10 Well, they're gonna fight at heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 25:11 You think so?

Brendan Schaub 25:12 Yeah. DC gets that belt.

Joe Rogan 25:14 Look at this, "Kawwa, there's a 95% chance that Jon Jones fights in the UFC in 2018." So you're saying there's a chance. (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 25:19 You're telling me there's a chance.

Joe Rogan 25:21 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 25:21 That's his agent though. You know what I'm saying? That's his agent.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Is his agent Jim Carrey?

Brendan Schaub 25:25 Yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 25:25 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 25:25 So you're telling me there's a chance.

Joe Rogan 25:27 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 25:27 You can't really listen to agents, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 25:30 Yeah. That guy, first of all, um-

Brendan Schaub 25:31 My dude thinks he's gonna be the next Rock. He's full of shit. You know, if you talk to him on the gr- greatest thing walking this earth.

Joe Rogan 25:35 It is entirely possible that he accidentally took... And people are saying that I'm being paid to say this, and... But I'm gonna tell you right now-

Brendan Schaub 25:42 Oh, I get this all the time.

Joe Rogan 25:43 ... uh, UFC, UFC's never paid me to say anything other than the truth. The reality about it is they don't know what he took. They don't know what happened. They don't know wh- how he got it. And the theory that I talked about is just a rumor that was going around that someone was trying to explain one way it could have happened, and it's through tainted creatine.

Brendan Schaub 26:03 That was backed up by Nowitzki-

Joe Rogan 26:05 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 26:05 ... the golden snitch, who is a actual employee of the UFC.

Joe Rogan 26:08 And he explained it.

Brendan Schaub 26:08 But also, when you say you're not paid, y- y- y- the UFC does not pay you to say anything on this podcast.

Joe Rogan 26:14 No.

Brendan Schaub 26:14 You're a commentator.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 26:15 They're not f- telling you things, say.

Joe Rogan 26:17 But they, but here's the thing. To their credit, they've never tried. They've never ever, ever tried.

Brendan Schaub 26:20 Well, they know better.

Joe Rogan 26:21 But if they ever talk to me about something, it's something we all agree with. Like-

Brendan Schaub 26:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 ... you know, like maybe Dana and I have had conversations about, like, "This is a big fight. Um, are you pumped for this?" I'm like, "Fuck, dude."

Brendan Schaub 26:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:29 "I can't even wait."

Brendan Schaub 26:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Are you kidding me?

Brendan Schaub 26:31 And you can't put in a word for Ben Askren.

Joe Rogan 26:33 You don't... Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 26:33 You son of a bitch.

Joe Rogan 26:33 And he, he might ha- Dude, I've talked to him about it in the past. D- Once you start insulting him and fucking with him, he's like, "I'm busy."

Brendan Schaub 26:40 He's forgiving, no.

Joe Rogan 26:42 Oh, you gotta talk to him.

Brendan Schaub 26:43 He doesn't-

Joe Rogan 26:43 I bet, if-

Brendan Schaub 26:43 ... hate me anymore.

Joe Rogan 26:45 No. He does. I hope he doesn't.

Brendan Schaub 26:46 He probably does.

Joe Rogan 26:47 I think if-

Brendan Schaub 26:47 What can he do?

Joe Rogan 26:48 ... if Ben and him sat down, and I could be there, maybe I could help.

Brendan Schaub 26:51 You gotta be the middle man.

Joe Rogan 26:52 I would do that. I'd 100% be willing to do that.

Brendan Schaub 26:54 You helped me out when I was going through the Reebok thing.

Joe Rogan 26:56 Yeah. (sighs) Yeah. I think Ben is, uh, under- underutilized and not understood and underappreciated. That's what I think.

Brendan Schaub 27:06 It's a real shame too, 'cause th- the father's time, you know, it... You can't wait that long.

Joe Rogan 27:10 Did you see what he did to Kharachkov? You see what he did to Lima? These are top flight, super powerful guys. He rag dolls 'em.

Brendan Schaub 27:17 And, and Khabib once gets his fight at 55 and go to 70, what's up, son?

Joe Rogan 27:21 And, you know, he had that interesting conversation, uh, about when he fought, um, Jay Hieron, which was his toughest fight in Bellator.

Brendan Schaub 27:28 A long time ago, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:29 He... Split decision.

Brendan Schaub 27:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:30 But he said he wasn't wrestling. He said he fucked up.

Brendan Schaub 27:32 Oh.

Joe Rogan 27:32 He said he was trying to just-

Brendan Schaub 27:33 He was just doing striking, right?

Joe Rogan 27:33 ... work on his striking-

Brendan Schaub 27:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:34 ... and his wrestling was off. And I was like, "That's incredible that someone as good as him still needs to be constantly doing it to stay sharp."

Brendan Schaub 27:41 He forgot what got sh- got you to the dance.

Joe Rogan 27:43 I'm like, "That's amazing." And so ever since then, he's concentrated on his wrestling and just taking everybody down. Like, when he concentrates on his wrestling and he's constantly doing it, d-

Brendan Schaub 27:51 That's the way to do it. And even, even, uh, in... Curtis Blaydes, I text you, I'm like, "Dude, this Australia card is ridiculous."

Joe Rogan 27:56 Yeah. Dude.

Brendan Schaub 27:56 Yeah, I always fucking hate on it. Get it over with. But he... That card was amazing. But Curtis Blaydes goes, "Listen, man, you guys wanna boo me? Hate to tell you, I don't enjoy getting punched in the face. I'm not trying to get punched in the face."

Joe Rogan 28:06 Not by Mark Hunt.

Brendan Schaub 28:06 "I'm not trying to get... by anyone."

Joe Rogan 28:08 Dude, how good is his chin?

Brendan Schaub 28:09 He was, "I'm trying to get paid."

Joe Rogan 28:10 How good is Curtis Blaydes' chin?

Brendan Schaub 28:11 It's the beard.

Joe Rogan 28:12 Dude, he took some shots. Mark Hunt put it on him, man.

Brendan Schaub 28:17 Blasted him.

Joe Rogan 28:17 Blasted him.

Brendan Schaub 28:17 He was almost out of it.

Joe Rogan 28:19 Yeah, and he gets the double. Like, "Fuck yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. This is fighting. That's exactly what you're supposed to do."

Brendan Schaub 28:24 And I'm biased as fuck, 'cause Curtis from my, from my old camp, and I, I see those guys, I talk to them, they tell me how much of a monster he is. And I love Mark Hunt. I didn't want anyone to lose that fight. When I see Mark Hunt getting taken down-

Joe Rogan 28:34 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 28:34 ... it's... Mark Hunt, to me, is like the white rhino, the last white rhino.

Joe Rogan 28:37 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 28:38 You know what I'm saying? He's the last remaining white rhino.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Woo!

Brendan Schaub 28:40 We gotta protect this guy, man.

Joe Rogan 28:41 Right. (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 28:41 Don't give him the fucking... Just wrestler.

Joe Rogan 28:44 Right.

Brendan Schaub 28:44 He's a legend.

Joe Rogan 28:45 Right.

Brendan Schaub 28:46 Don't give him that guy. Give him Francis. Let's see how that plays out.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 28:49 Give him J... You know, not JDS, but you know what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 28:52 (smacks lips) Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 28:53 How dare you give him a fucking Juco National Champion and send it to Australia?

Joe Rogan 28:57 Well-

Brendan Schaub 28:57 How dare you?

Joe Rogan 28:58 ... he almost won by knockout though, and Mark's hard to take down. I think it was a good test. I think it was an important test. Look, they tried to do the same thing with Derrick Lewis. They gave Derrick Lewis a test at Mark Hunt. Mark Hunt shut him down and stopped him. Derrick Lewis is one of the best fucking heavyweights in the division.

Brendan Schaub 29:12 Whoa, whoa, whoa. Be- one of the best heavyweights, not one of the best wrestlers.

Joe Rogan 29:15 Right. But he still is one of the best guys, one of the, uh, uh... He's a knockout artist and a, a, a promising up-and-coming guy. They give him to Mark Hunt, he cannot get past Mark Hunt.

Brendan Schaub 29:24 True, but Mark Hunt-

Joe Rogan 29:25 Mark Hunt... This could happen-

Brendan Schaub 29:26 But the, but the... They both c-

Joe Rogan 29:26 ... with Curtis Blaydes too.

Brendan Schaub 29:27 Not really, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 29:27 If it happened in Australia-

Brendan Schaub 29:27 ... they made a commitment.

Joe Rogan 29:29 ... but if it happened in Australia with all his fans there from New Zealand, dude, that's a big fight for him. It's a smart fight. I, I think-

Brendan Schaub 29:34 Smart fight for who?

Joe Rogan 29:35 ... for both guys.

Brendan Schaub 29:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 29:36 If Mark Hunt won, if he connected with a couple shots more, or if Curtis was- wasn't as tough an- and as good as he is, he could have knocked out anybody at that night.

Brendan Schaub 29:45 For, for, for Curtis, it's a smart fight, right? For Mark Hunt-

Joe Rogan 29:48 For Mark Hunt-

Brendan Schaub 29:48 ... it's a smart fight too.

Joe Rogan 29:49 Not really. He's already a legend. Like, like, he's-

Brendan Schaub 29:52 I... Yeah, but he's... But if he wins the way he almost won by knockout-

Joe Rogan 29:54 It'd be an up-and-coming-

Brendan Schaub 29:55 ... in Australia, it br-... it jumps you up even further.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Not really. He's ranked fifth. You know what I'm saying?

Brendan Schaub 29:59 Yeah, but the excitement of the Perth crowd, you're as good as his la- your last fight. If he had two KOs in a row like that-

Joe Rogan 30:06 Could be anyone though.

Brendan Schaub 30:06 ... dude, that's big. But he-

Joe Rogan 30:07 Yeah, I agree. It's just, it's... To me, stylistically, it's a bad matchup.

Brendan Schaub 30:09 He's 40. I understand what you're saying, but he's 40 and he's legitimately one or two big wins away from another title shot. Think about what you have, right? You have DC versus Stipe. Whoever fights out, who are they gonna fight next? Mark Hunt knocks out... Hold on a second. He knocks out him, and then he knocks out someone next. Like, who could it be? Okay. Overeem?

Joe Rogan 30:29 I mean, you could try Overeem again, but the problem with Overeem fighting for the title again is he just lost to Stipe by knockout.

Brendan Schaub 30:35 I know.

Joe Rogan 30:35 And then he just lost to Francis by knockout.

Brendan Schaub 30:37 And he got Gooden there as well.

Joe Rogan 30:38 Yeah, so you-

Brendan Schaub 30:38 He's number one actually.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Yeah, you've got some fucking real interesting fights, but all it would take was Mark Hunt to beat one of those top guys and he's in consideration again.

Brendan Schaub 30:46 For sure.

Joe Rogan 30:47 There's a small pool there.

Brendan Schaub 30:48 Uh, it's super... Heavyweight's super small.

Joe Rogan 30:49 At heavyweight? So small. That's why Overeem keeps getting shuffled back to the top. As tough as he is, and it's not taking anything away from him, there's not a lot of-

Brendan Schaub 30:56 There's not a lot of guys-

Joe Rogan 30:57 ... new blood being fed into the top tiers of the group.

Brendan Schaub 30:59 There's no new blood, really.

Joe Rogan 31:01 Well, it's hard. It's a fucking hard division to find talented guys. I think it's the most-

Brendan Schaub 31:05 Heavyweight's tough.

Joe Rogan 31:05 ... difficult division.

Brendan Schaub 31:06 Well, heavy... I think, I think heavyweight's better off than light heavyweight. Look at light heavyweight, it's like Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 31:10 That's a shark tank. Light heavyweight's got a lot of crazy shit going on right now, right? Like, what happens if DC loses or leaves rather? And then you got-

Brendan Schaub 31:17 DC is gonna win the heavyweight belt and bounce.

Joe Rogan 31:20 So if he goes to heavyweight and stays at heavyweight-

Brendan Schaub 31:22 Wins, bounces.

Joe Rogan 31:23 And think of that, man. This is crazy, right?

Brendan Schaub 31:25 Is it?

Joe Rogan 31:26 W- Well, imagine Cain going to 205.

Brendan Schaub 31:28 That's not happening.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Maybe.

Brendan Schaub 31:29 He's too old. He's gonna fight at heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Keep going for them tacos. Come on, Cain.

Brendan Schaub 31:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:34 I've seen that... I've seen that show. That dude eats... He gets down with that Mexican food.

Brendan Schaub 31:38 He gets down. I don't blame him, man.

Joe Rogan 31:39 Why not? It's delicious.

Brendan Schaub 31:39 He's earned it. However, Cain will fight... He's not gonna fight for the title right away. He's gonna fight once this year and then hopefully a title fight. But th- I think what they're planning on is DC beats Stipe, vacates the belt, and then, w-... Cain will fight for the interim belt towards the end of the year, or beginning of early next year.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Damn, Stipe does not want to hear that kind of talk. People just loves to overlook Stipe Miocic.

Brendan Schaub 32:03 It's fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 32:04 It's crazy.

Brendan Schaub 32:04 Look at the heavyweight division though, it's a fucking land of the dinosaurs and then light heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 32:09 Well, Francis is terrifying for everyone on the planet other than Stipe Miocic.

Brendan Schaub 32:13 No, no, no. I- I- I- I- I... So Francis would, would lose... I'm back off the train. So Francis-

Joe Rogan 32:19 (laughs) You're off the Francis train?

Brendan Schaub 32:20 I'm at... Goddam, I'm off that train. I didn't know he can't wrestle at all.

Joe Rogan 32:24 I think he was exhausted.

Brendan Schaub 32:24 I didn't know he was like... How do you spell wrestling? Listen, so Curtis Blaydes smokes him. Cain Velasquez smokes him.

Joe Rogan 32:31 Smokes who? Francis?

Brendan Schaub 32:31 Yes, all day.

Joe Rogan 32:32 Really? So you think Curtis Blaydes, when they fought the first time, just wasn't ready for him?

Brendan Schaub 32:36 He didn't... But remember, that got stopped via doctor stoppage-

Joe Rogan 32:38 Right.

Brendan Schaub 32:39 ... in the second round.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Right.

Brendan Schaub 32:40 I think he goes, "Hold up, you have zero wrestling?"

Joe Rogan 32:42 Right.

Brendan Schaub 32:42 "You just hit mitts and lift weights and talk to the employees at the UFC Institute?"

Joe Rogan 32:46 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 32:47 "The fuck? Yeah, I'm gonna wrestle your ass."

Joe Rogan 32:50 I want to point out that I do not agree with that assessment. I'm sure he trained his wrestling. I'm sure he was in the best shape he could be.

Brendan Schaub 32:57 That's not what he told me. No, I'm just kidding. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:58 I think he, I think he burned down the first round. I mean, I've watched it. He's definitely needs some more than wrestling.

Brendan Schaub 33:02 There's no technique against wrestling there.

Joe Rogan 33:03 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 33:03 I- I... From the very get go, if his... his sheer strength got him through some of those take downs-

Joe Rogan 33:08 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 33:08 ... but you look at his hand placements, hips, it's not there. Now, it can come. It's a- it's a tough business to be in and try and pick that, those skills up and you look at the, that list. You know, Derrick Lewis, he can, he can double leg your ass.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 33:19 Mark Hunt, obviously good matchup. Curtis Blaydes, nightmare. Cain Velasquez, nightmare. Fabricio Werdum, fucking nightmare. Alstoveren can wrestle if he wants to.

Joe Rogan 33:27 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 33:27 Stipe, obviously nightmare. We saw what he did to him.

Joe Rogan 33:30 The thing is he's so fucking powerful that every one of them could get nighty-nighted with one shot.

Brendan Schaub 33:38 The sport's evolved, my brother.

Joe Rogan 33:39 The sport has definitely evolved.

Brendan Schaub 33:40 To be world champion, to be world champion.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Right. But you're looking at it through the eyes of someone who fought Stipe Miocic, right? He fought Stipe Miocic. Stipe figured him out, Stipe beat him, right? But Stipe is a very, very unusual character and there's some shots that he got hit with, hit with in that fight that a lot of dudes would not have been able to take.

Brendan Schaub 34:00 Agree with that. However, if Fabricio gets you on the ground-

Joe Rogan 34:02 Oh, yeah.

Brendan Schaub 34:02 ... and I promise you if he got you down that often, he would have choked Francis unconscious.

Joe Rogan 34:06 Yeah, that's a different animal. On the ground, that's a different animal.

Brendan Schaub 34:08 So is Cain though. Cain can... For-

Joe Rogan 34:10 Cain will beat you up on the ground for sure.

Brendan Schaub 34:11 What's... Stipe on the ground he, you know, he's not a big finisher. He's gonna do... He's gonna fuck you up and he's gonna wear you out.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Right.

Brendan Schaub 34:16 He's not a huge finisher. He doesn't look for submissions. France, or I'm sorry, Werdum will fucking get a hold of your neck, he'll look for submission.

Joe Rogan 34:23 He'll break everything, yeah.

Brendan Schaub 34:23 And then think about Cain, his ground and pound's ferocious.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Ferocious. Yeah, super accurate and the, the rep, the, the reps he puts in. Bang, bang, bang, bang, you know?

Brendan Schaub 34:31 He, he breaks you.

Joe Rogan 34:32 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 34:32 Where, where Stipe is very controlled, he's gonna take you down, he doesn't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 34:36 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 34:36 He's gonna wear you out.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah, Cain has a crazy output, like his output's disturbing.

Brendan Schaub 34:40 Nuts.

Joe Rogan 34:40 You know, you, you watch the, the sheer volume and the pace of the take downs and chaining take downs together and beating you up on the way down. You're like, "Wow." (laughs) Um, uh, Javier Mendez said this once. We were, we were in the back and it was him and "Crazy" Bob Cook and I was like, "Dude," I go, "I think he was just..." He was... I forget who it was that he fought, uh, but I said, "I think he was just expecting to ride the storm out." You know, like, 'cause he just couldn't keep up with Cain. And, uh, Javier goes, "This storm doesn't ever go away."

Brendan Schaub 35:12 Never.

Joe Rogan 35:12 He goes, "That storm is there forever." Like, "You don't understand, there's no riding this storm out." (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 35:16 Yeah, you just... You better fucking just gear down-

Joe Rogan 35:18 It's like, like-

Brendan Schaub 35:18 ... and try to match it.

Joe Rogan 35:19 It's like, it's... I mean, they even talk openly about it, like he's a freak. Like he'll take three weeks off, come back and just-

Brendan Schaub 35:24 He's just born with his crazy cardio.

Joe Rogan 35:26 ... runs through everybody.

Brendan Schaub 35:27 Nuts.

Joe Rogan 35:27 There's something going on there.

Brendan Schaub 35:28 There's something going on.

Joe Rogan 35:29 And you just-

Brendan Schaub 35:29 Unless he fights in Mexico, yeah, there's something going on.

Joe Rogan 35:31 Wow, that was a fucking mess, man. Nobody could do that. Nobody, even Cardio Cain can't go to 7,000 feet without being there for a while. It's just-

Brendan Schaub 35:38 It's a nightmare.

Joe Rogan 35:39 It's gonna... It's just too much-

Brendan Schaub 35:40 But now, now think, think about that relentless... Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Yeah, okay.

Brendan Schaub 35:42 Think about the re- relentless approach, and DC's fight's very similar.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 35:47 Against Stipe.

Joe Rogan 35:48 No.

Brendan Schaub 35:49 And that, to me, that's where I look, I look at... I see when it first came out, "Oh my God, it's a super fight. Let me think about this." What are, what are my initial thoughts? I always go, "What's my initial thoughts what most people are gonna think?" Well, Stipe has knockout power.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 36:00 His wrestling's good, he puts everything together well. But the cardio of DC is gonna be an issue if DC can get past that third round. That's a big... You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 36:08 'Cause that's tremendous cardio, but so does Stipe, and here's the other thing-

Brendan Schaub 36:12 Does he?

Joe Rogan 36:12 Think about Stipe, what was he able to do with Francis, right? He caught Francis who was the most dangerous guy in the division standing up. The most dangerous guy in terms of making mistakes.

Brendan Schaub 36:21 Hands down, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:22 Hands down.

Brendan Schaub 36:22 Hands down.

Joe Rogan 36:23 He caught him with some strong shots.

Brendan Schaub 36:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:25 He tagged him several times and now think the difference in size between Stipe and DC. You, you got a guy who... He's, he's a fighting guy who doesn't hit as hard. DC is definitely formidable on the feet and he showed that in the V- the Volkan fight. He cracked Volkan. He's, his, his standup is very good, but he's not absolutely terrifying with his punches.

Brendan Schaub 36:44 He's not a technician.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Right. Well, he is a technician. I think he's a technician-

Brendan Schaub 36:47 He gets away with some... Where, where, where he'll, he'll leave his hips and he'll pull back.

Joe Rogan 36:51 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 36:51 Which at heavyweight, you're gonna be in a little trouble. Now saying that, he is undefeated as a heavyweight, so...

Joe Rogan 36:55 Well, I was, I was very impressed with his hands in the Volkan fight.

Brendan Schaub 36:57 Me too.

Joe Rogan 36:57 He was the one that was landing shots.

Brendan Schaub 36:58 Me too.

Joe Rogan 36:59 So-

Brendan Schaub 36:59 He played that game.

Joe Rogan 37:00 Yeah, and Volkan-

Brendan Schaub 37:01 And beat him.

Joe Rogan 37:01 Right, and Volkan is fucking dangerous. His standup is very, very dangerous.

Brendan Schaub 37:05 Yeah, okay.

Joe Rogan 37:05 So I was... I'm impressed with him, so I think he is-

Brendan Schaub 37:08 Yeah, me too.

Joe Rogan 37:08 ... a technician, but he's like 5'11", Stipe's 6'4".Stipe's long and he's very good at knocking out heavyweights. I'm thinking the way Stipe knocked out Werdum, the way Stipe was able to crack Francis-

Brendan Schaub 37:24 Overeem.

Joe Rogan 37:25 Overeem.

Brendan Schaub 37:25 He knocked out Overeem.

Joe Rogan 37:25 Dude, he's a beast.

Brendan Schaub 37:26 Think about when he did-

Joe Rogan 37:26 Junior dos Santos.

Brendan Schaub 37:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:28 What he did to him.

Brendan Schaub 37:29 Think about what he did to Mark Hunt.

Joe Rogan 37:30 Yes, Arlovski, what he did to Arlovski. Dude, he's a beast.

Brendan Schaub 37:33 He's the greatest heavyweight of all time in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Right now you have to say he is because he won the title three... He's the only guy-

Brendan Schaub 37:38 Most successful?

Joe Rogan 37:39 ... to defend it three times.

Brendan Schaub 37:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:40 He's a fucking animal. So you got a tall order for DC. It's interesting because of his wrestling and it's just ability to figure out how to win and how good he looked in the Volkan fight, but Volkan and Stipe are not the same.

Brendan Schaub 37:52 So-

Joe Rogan 37:52 Stipe is the heavyweight fucking champion of the world and-

Brendan Schaub 37:54 I know.

Joe Rogan 37:55 ... for whatever reason, people seem to be able to... The- wanna look past him. I don't understand it.

Brendan Schaub 37:59 I don't know why. I, I do it too and I... Stipe's a buddy of mine.

Joe Rogan 38:02 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 38:02 Stipe's a buddy of mine, but-

Joe Rogan 38:04 Dude, you look past him now?

Brendan Schaub 38:05 Uh, it's very strange, like I, I was literally... You and I did The Wilbur together.

Joe Rogan 38:09 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 38:09 And one of the fan questions, how Stipe beat, uh, fucking Francis. I went, "Come out in a singlet and do not strike at all?" Like just, I'm scared for him, man.

Joe Rogan 38:16 Yeah. (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 38:16 But you look at it, Stipe just pulls it off, man.

Joe Rogan 38:19 He pulls it off.

Brendan Schaub 38:19 I don't know what it is.

Joe Rogan 38:20 He's a winner, that's what it is.

Brendan Schaub 38:21 He's a straight winner and he-

Joe Rogan 38:22 He's a winner. He knows how to win.

Brendan Schaub 38:24 But you know, you know who's a winner and is an Olympian and to me, besides Jon Jones, is the greatest of all time? Daniel Cormier.

Joe Rogan 38:31 Yes.

Brendan Schaub 38:31 He has something, some other gear and him pl- but also at heavyweight, he's gonna come in around 230.

Joe Rogan 38:37 Right.

Brendan Schaub 38:37 And then his leverage and he's, he's cock strong.

Joe Rogan 38:40 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 38:41 That motherfucker in the clinch. So there's division one wrestling, Stipe, Cleveland State, then there's Oklahoma State wrestling, Olympic wrestling. You're talking about WNBA to NBA All Stars. There's a com- complete difference there.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Yeah, he's-

Brendan Schaub 38:56 Ask Ben Askren for God's sakes.

Joe Rogan 38:57 You could see it. I mean, what, remember when he fought Dan Henderson? You're like, "Holy shit."

Brendan Schaub 39:01 Remember when he picked up Josh Barnett?

Joe Rogan 39:03 Dude, slammed him.

Brendan Schaub 39:04 What he did to Dan Henderson, that was f- that was insulting to me.

Joe Rogan 39:08 (laughs) That was-

Brendan Schaub 39:08 That's a goddamn legend.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Dan Henderson is also an Olympian.

Brendan Schaub 39:11 Yeah, I know, and he picked him and spiked him on his head-

Joe Rogan 39:13 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 39:13 ... like he was a four-year-old.

Joe Rogan 39:14 He threw him around like you never saw anybody do Dan Henderson before.

Brendan Schaub 39:17 Show a little fucking respect.

Joe Rogan 39:18 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 39:18 And then, and then he showed respect to Anderson Silva.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Well, that was a fight Anderson took on short notice, remember? Otherwise, he probably wouldn't have got paid.

Brendan Schaub 39:25 Still, how are you going to spike Dan Henderson, the goddamn American beauty?

Joe Rogan 39:28 Choked him out too, remember?

Brendan Schaub 39:29 I know, how dare you?

Joe Rogan 39:30 Dude, it was, uh...

Brendan Schaub 39:30 Look at the-

Joe Rogan 39:31 This is him versus Josh-

Brendan Schaub 39:31 Oh, that's Josh Barnett.

Joe Rogan 39:32 That's Josh Barnett.

Brendan Schaub 39:33 That's all three.

Joe Rogan 39:34 But look how nice and slamming people.

Brendan Schaub 39:34 Josh did have a broken hand in that fight, though.

Joe Rogan 39:36 This is Dan Henderson.

Brendan Schaub 39:37 Look, this is... That's insulting. That's rude.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Dude, he's just so strong.

Brendan Schaub 39:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:43 Look how strong he is.

Brendan Schaub 39:43 Geez. That's Gusman who's 6'6".

Joe Rogan 39:45 (laughs) Look how fucking strong DC is.

Brendan Schaub 39:47 That's nuts, man.

Joe Rogan 39:48 It's not just technique, the technique's amazing. You gotta be so strong to be able to do that to Josh Barnett. That is crazy. He flips him through the air and th- he's literally throwing him around like I would throw a 10-year-old.

Brendan Schaub 40:00 I'm such a DC fan, li- literally.

Joe Rogan 40:00 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 40:00 That's how I th- that's how I throw the tires in the gym.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 40:03 And that, that's difficult.

Joe Rogan 40:04 It's hard.

Brendan Schaub 40:04 That's difficult. Let alone a human body.

Joe Rogan 40:07 He's such a beast. Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 40:07 I'm such a fan, and you know what?

Joe Rogan 40:08 I like that fight, man.

Brendan Schaub 40:08 What's crazy is DC is slowly becoming the face of the UFC. He's becoming this world, like star. He's becoming a superstar.

Joe Rogan 40:16 I think people are starting to realize, first of all, he's a really good guy. Like a really, really good guy.

Brendan Schaub 40:20 Like a genuinely good dude.

Joe Rogan 40:22 That is, he's beautiful.

Brendan Schaub 40:22 There's no act.

Joe Rogan 40:22 He's a beautiful person. And he's a fucking beast, man. He's so tough and he throws dudes around, like right there. We're looking at his behind the reel right now.

Brendan Schaub 40:33 What he did to Dan Henderson that- what I did, what he did to Dan Henderson is a fucking insult in DC.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Dude. Look at... He gets a hold of Josh Barnett and he's like, "Nope, dude, going down. I don't give a fuck what you think."

Brendan Schaub 40:42 Oh, you're the war master? Very cool. Check that out.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Congratulations, you're on your back. It's just how he does it, man. Look at this. Boom. His wrestling is just so many notches above most of the people he fights.

Brendan Schaub 40:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:53 Which makes you even more fucking impressed with Jon Jones.

Brendan Schaub 40:57 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 40:58 That's what makes me even more impressed. Jon Jones took him down.

Brendan Schaub 41:01 And, and I just, like heavy... When you bring the, when you bring Jon up to me, it's heavy, it like hurts.

Joe Rogan 41:04 Fuck.

Brendan Schaub 41:05 Jon took him down. Jon took him down.

Joe Rogan 41:07 I- I- I was... If I had one of those Men in Black things where I erase people's memory, I'd erase everyone's Jon's fights. I'd (whoosh) . Dude, you can't erase the best. He's the best.

Brendan Schaub 41:16 I know, but it's like...

Joe Rogan 41:17 You, I mean, you look at his performances, like the fact that he was... Think about how goddamn good DC is and think of Jon head kicking him and stunning him and then putting him away.

Brendan Schaub 41:26 And, uh, and remember-

Joe Rogan 41:27 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 41:27 ... in the first fight, Jon took him down.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Took him down, first round.

Brendan Schaub 41:29 And there's a, there's a picture of DC literally like, "Oh, shit."

Joe Rogan 41:32 Oh, shit.

Brendan Schaub 41:33 He's getting double-legged.

Joe Rogan 41:33 Yeah, well, and he said after the fight, he really underestimated how strong he was.

Brendan Schaub 41:37 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Jon's on many levels, many levels past what most people understand. And, and you think about all the distractions, all the shit that guy's been through and he still is able to perform at that level. All the crazy shit, almost went to jail, the fucking crashed into a pregnant lady's car.

Brendan Schaub 41:54 Did he go to jail?

Joe Rogan 41:54 The wh- all the fucking craziness, man.

Brendan Schaub 41:56 Dick pic, cocaine.

Joe Rogan 41:57 All of that.

Brendan Schaub 41:58 I, I'd be one to bet if you gave Jon Jones literally like, "Okay bro, you're gonna have to fight in three days." I would still put my money on Jon to beat anyone in the world. That's how crazy this is.

Joe Rogan 42:07 He's some- he's something special, man. Jon's something special.

Brendan Schaub 42:09 Depressed, whatever the hell he is, I'll take Jon.

Joe Rogan 42:12 He's something special. And you know, you really see it in the fights where he's losing, that's where you see how good he is.

Brendan Schaub 42:17 How about the Gusman fight where like he barely trained-

Joe Rogan 42:19 The Gusman fight.

Brendan Schaub 42:19 ... and just showed up and like did work? Oh, when I say did work, you're talking about one of the greatest light heavyweight fights of all time and it was a five-round war.

Joe Rogan 42:28 War.

Brendan Schaub 42:28 War.

Joe Rogan 42:29 And Jon took over in the last half of the fight.

Brendan Schaub 42:31 It's nuts, man.

Joe Rogan 42:32 Yeah. And then how about, you know, the Vitor fight? He gets his arm basically bent sideways.

Brendan Schaub 42:37 And then submits Vitor Belfort.

Joe Rogan 42:38 And then submits him. Yeah, gets out of the armbar, which looks fucking horrific. The armbar look... It's like you see how far it's bent and you're just thinking about what his elbow must be doing right now, popping and cracking, and he still didn't tap and then he went on to coach The, The Ultimate Fighter, remember? He couldn't use his arm right. Like he... One of the reasons why he wanted to coach was because he couldn't train for a while.

Brendan Schaub 42:59 It's nuts, man.

Joe Rogan 43:00 Dude, he wouldn't tap.

Brendan Schaub 43:02 He's such a monster.

Joe Rogan 43:03 He wouldn't tap. He wouldn't tap. He had his arm bent sideways. I know a lot of guys do that, don't get me wrong, but you got to understand, a lot of guys that are as talented as Jon can't get through adversity. It's one of the things that makes him special.

Brendan Schaub 43:15 He thrives in it.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Well, yeah, when the chips are down, he's not giving up. There's no giving up. It's not happening.

Brendan Schaub 43:21 He almost prefers it though, I- I think.... if you told Jon Hand this is comeback, we're gonna do a 12-week camp, ease you back in, you- you eat right every day, there's no hookers, there's no dick pills.

Joe Rogan 43:30 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 43:30 I th- I don't think it helps him. I, I think he needs a little bit of chaos. I've known other absolute, like, ultimate winners who they, they need a little bit of chaos.

Joe Rogan 43:37 Right.

Brendan Schaub 43:37 When everything's going perfect, they go, "Whoa, whoa, whoa."

Joe Rogan 43:39 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 43:39 "We need, we need to throw a wrench into it."

Joe Rogan 43:40 Well, maybe. You might be right. But I've, I just gotta think that just the actual chaos of fighting, if treated correctly, could fill that void in between... While he's doing these training camps, I think he still hasn't reached his potential. I think we've maybe seen it in a couple of fights, where he had a great training camp and he didn't fuck around and he didn't party. But-

Brendan Schaub 44:01 Then he got caught.

Joe Rogan 44:02 Yeah. Well, whatever it is. Maybe he d-... We don't know. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know. I don't know if he goes through cycles of partying. We know he's a wild motherfucker, self-proclaimed.

Brendan Schaub 44:10 He's a wild motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 44:11 Self-proclaimed. But you have to be-

Brendan Schaub 44:12 Self-proclaimed? Sure.

Joe Rogan 44:13 He says he's a wild motherfucker.

Brendan Schaub 44:15 We know he's a wild motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 44:15 We know he's a wild motherfucker. But he's also, that wildness, is one of the reasons why he's so fucking good.

Brendan Schaub 44:23 He's an artist.

Joe Rogan 44:23 You have to have the whole thing. You gotta have the whole thing. He is an artist in a lot of ways.

Brendan Schaub 44:29 He's an artist.

Joe Rogan 44:29 You gotta have the wildness, you gotta have the physical talent, and you gotta have the brain to understand pathways to be creative, to take chances, to do things, wild risks like flying knees on Shogun or spinning elbows on Stephan Bonnar. There's a... And this is all, like, when he's fairly new to striking.

Brendan Schaub 44:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:48 Right?

Brendan Schaub 44:49 You al- you also gotta be able to have that bit of craziness where you can only train for two weeks and then still go in there wor- with a world-class athlete-

Joe Rogan 44:57 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 44:57 ... like Orion Bader or Gustafsson-

Joe Rogan 44:58 And be in shape.

Brendan Schaub 44:59 ... and still have the confidence to go, "I'll figure it out."

Joe Rogan 45:01 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 45:01 "I know, I know he's been training 12 weeks and he's one of the best in the world. I got this." That's a different switch that 99.9% of professional athletes don't have.

Joe Rogan 45:10 But imagine full dedication, full perfect diet-

Brendan Schaub 45:15 Nah, why you gotta do that shit, man?

Joe Rogan 45:16 ... no fucking ... (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 45:17 Why you gotta do that to the guy? You, you think he wants that? You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 45:20 I don't know. I don't-

Brendan Schaub 45:21 Why you gotta let him free like Shamu? Don't put him in the fucking container-

Joe Rogan 45:23 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 45:23 ... and have people look at him. Let him out in the ocean, let him do his thing.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Shamu never got released, he didn't know how to live in the wild, bro.

Brendan Schaub 45:29 Pffft, well, all Jon knows how to live in the wild. And then you wanna toss him into the fucking container and-

Joe Rogan 45:33 Bring him to a pu-

Brendan Schaub 45:34 ... put him in a blazer and some khakis and no dick pills.

Joe Rogan 45:37 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 45:37 You know what I'm saying? Like, let him live, man.

Joe Rogan 45:41 (groans)

Brendan Schaub 45:41 Is it a crime to take dick pills and a little Coke?

Joe Rogan 45:43 No. That's-

Brendan Schaub 45:43 Come on.

Joe Rogan 45:44 The, the problem's not that. The problem is, is he getting enough recovery so that he's training enough to reach his full potential? And what is more important? Is that more important or is it nurturing the wild nature that lets you do crazy shit?

Brendan Schaub 46:00 He ... There's a balance. He, he should be able to do both.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Maybe.

Brendan Schaub 46:03 He's not hurting anyone doing Coke or doing dick pills.

Joe Rogan 46:05 But as you get older and your body gets more and more tired from war, right? I mean, think of the battles that guy's been in.

Brendan Schaub 46:11 That's the nature of the beast, though.

Joe Rogan 46:12 Right. But-

Brendan Schaub 46:12 That's everyone.

Joe Rogan 46:13 But that's gonna be a problem if he's not fully dedicated as time moves forward.

Brendan Schaub 46:17 Even if you are fully dedicated, like a Cain Velasquez, he has a cage around his spine now.

Joe Rogan 46:21 Right.

Brendan Schaub 46:21 You know what I'm saying? Like, no matter what, it's gonna take its toll on you.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 46:25 If you perform at your best, you partying till 3:00 in the morning and then show up to training dr- drunk, that's your, that's your path, man. We shouldn't put these guys in boxes and force them to live like this and, "You have to do this and this is the way to do it." Jon goes, "That's not my way, man." "Oh, really? It's not?" "No, I'm actually undefeated. Yeah, my only loss is to Mark Hamill from whooping his ass so bad."

Joe Rogan 46:46 It's true.

Brendan Schaub 46:47 "That's my only loss. So you wanted me to do what? I gotta act like the rest of these guys? That's not fair, man. It's bullshit."

Joe Rogan 46:53 That's an interesting perspective. I like what you're saying.

Brendan Schaub 46:56 Not everyone f- c- fits into these boxes that they wanna put him in. He's not hurting anyone what he's doing.

Joe Rogan 47:00 See, the problem is you hear about someone partying too much and you always wonder, like, "Man, are they happy?"

Brendan Schaub 47:06 I know they're trying to feel something.

Joe Rogan 47:07 "Are they happy out there partying?" What are they doing?

Brendan Schaub 47:08 You ask him while he's high, he's gonna say, "Hell yeah." And he's balls deep in these dime pieces-

Joe Rogan 47:12 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 47:12 ... 'cause he's the best fighter in the world. Go ask Michael Irvin, who partied to th- had some legendary parties. The Dallas Cowboys had the, they had a white house, they called it the white house. The all three of them, the most famous players chipped in on a mansion they called the white house.

Joe Rogan 47:24 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 47:24 And every week they would throw the most epic parties of all time. You know what? Some of the best teams of all time.

Joe Rogan 47:29 It's true.

Brendan Schaub 47:30 Why do they gotta check these boxes off? Let them have a little fucking fun.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 47:33 They're not like you nine-to-fivers, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 47:36 Yeah, look, you got a real point there. The only argument against it would be if there was someone in his division that was like him but was dedicated.

Brendan Schaub 47:46 There's not.

Joe Rogan 47:47 There's not right now. I mean, there's DC-

Brendan Schaub 47:49 And even if they are-

Joe Rogan 47:50 There's, there's DC who puts up the best fight with him, but he's lost twice, second time emphatically.

Brendan Schaub 47:54 And he's dedicated as fuck.

Joe Rogan 47:56 Dedicated as fuck. Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 47:58 They, they don't have to be the same to get in that cage, man. It's not fair.

Joe Rogan 48:01 Yeah. It's interesting.

Brendan Schaub 48:03 I know.

Joe Rogan 48:03 It's an interesting point of view because, like, is he so talented that he can get away with not training as much as everybody else? Or is it just that his ability to say, "Fuck it," and his ability to just not give a fuck and be wild-

Brendan Schaub 48:21 Be a cowboy.

Joe Rogan 48:21 ... is one of his talents.

Brendan Schaub 48:23 That's a talent that most people-

Joe Rogan 48:24 You gotta-

Brendan Schaub 48:24 ... don't have.

Joe Rogan 48:25 And along with obvious physical talents.

Brendan Schaub 48:27 Correct. He was born with these God-given talents and he was born with this cowboy attitude, and that, for him, that works.

Joe Rogan 48:33 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 48:33 There's no mental coach, there's no ... he doesn't need any of that.

Joe Rogan 48:36 It's a good point. Yeah, see, it's almost like he needs a Frazier, right? Like, Ali needed a Frazier. Sugar Ray needed Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran. They need each other.

Brendan Schaub 48:45 They do.

Joe Rogan 48:46 They need each other. And with him-

Brendan Schaub 48:47 To bring out the best.

Joe Rogan 48:48 I bet DC did bring out the best in him and that's what he said.

Brendan Schaub 48:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:51 That DC brought out the best in him. But he needs someone else now.

Brendan Schaub 48:55 He needs someone else. Maybe it's Stipe.

Joe Rogan 48:56 Because, yeah, because if he, you know, if he fights DC again, boy, you can make that fight for sure, especially if DC wins-

Brendan Schaub 49:03 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 49:03 ... the heavyweight title, but-

Brendan Schaub 49:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... Jon just KO'd him in the last fight.

Brendan Schaub 49:08 And for DC-

Joe Rogan 49:09 And emphatic.

Brendan Schaub 49:10 And, and I know D... And I know the fighter in DC and the winner in DC, he wants that fight again.

Joe Rogan 49:13 Yeah, of course.

Brendan Schaub 49:13 Especially that heavyweight division heavyweight champ. I get that.... but as a DC fan, I d- I don't wanna see that. Some guys just have your number, it's just not in the cards. I, I, I... Maybe, may... And it... He's not Jon's equal. Jon goes to another level when he fights him. But maybe it's a Stipe. Maybe it's Werdum. I think Werdum, Jon's a tough fight for Jon.

Joe Rogan 49:32 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 49:32 Stipe's a beast of a fight for him.

Joe Rogan 49:34 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 49:34 I'd love to see Jon verse Francis.

Joe Rogan 49:36 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 49:36 May- maybe, maybe there's one of these heavyweights who... Out there, who can control... You know, because Jon's a non-knockout artist.

Joe Rogan 49:42 Too tough.

Brendan Schaub 49:42 So he has to be in there for five rounds with these super heavyweights who hit like a Mack truck. You know, Jon does get hit, so there's these varies that... You know? Variations there.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Isn't that great... One of the craziest things about Jon is he's not really a knockout artist.

Brendan Schaub 49:53 Mm-mm, and we love him.

Joe Rogan 49:54 But yet he knocked out DC.

Brendan Schaub 49:56 With a head kick, yeah, that's right. And DC's impossible to fucking knock out.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 50:01 He's never been knocked out.

Joe Rogan 50:02 Yeah. Um, maybe Jon's sitting on his punches and kicks better now, but what's amazing is how terrifying he is without having ever done that. Or done that, but not done it to the extent of some of the best guys in the division, like Jimi Manuwa or... Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 50:15 ... one of those guys.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 50:16 Just vicious, vicious strikers.

Joe Rogan 50:17 Like you don't have that Anthony Johnson power-

Brendan Schaub 50:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:19 ... where you're like, "Oh, if this lands, it's over." With Jon he's gonna slice you up.

Brendan Schaub 50:22 Yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 50:23 He, he's gonna break your will. Oh, you're getting-

Brendan Schaub 50:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:24 ... wrestling? He's gonna wrestle you. Oh, you're a jujitsu blackbelt? Like, Vitor, he's gonna submit you.

Brendan Schaub 50:28 Yeah. Ozdemir hits harder than him. A lot of guys hit harder than him.

Joe Rogan 50:31 For sure. Ryan Bader-

Brendan Schaub 50:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:32 ... probably hits harder than him.

Brendan Schaub 50:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:33 Look what he did to Ryan Bader.

Brendan Schaub 50:34 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, he's just a combination of things. You know, fighting spirit, uh, indomitable fighting spirit. It's just, that motherfucker does not give up. Crazy wrestling talent, super strong, just knows how to win.

Joe Rogan 50:49 And has a checkered past, but knows- Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 50:50 ... when it comes down to it, he might not ha- might not have the... A 12-week camp, might not have eight hours of rest, probably didn't eat right.

Joe Rogan 50:56 (coughs)

Brendan Schaub 50:57 Might be balls deep in a whole bag of gummy bears.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Fuck you up.

Brendan Schaub 50:59 But when he shows up, he's gonna fuck you up.

Joe Rogan 51:01 Yeah. He's on another level. He needs... It's almost like he needs someone on his level. And there's a few of those guys out there. Like-

Brendan Schaub 51:07 Is there?

Joe Rogan 51:08 Yeah. Outliers, man. Outliers, they, I mean-

Brendan Schaub 51:11 In the sport?

Joe Rogan 51:11 ... we might not see one yet. He might, he might be coming up. He might be a guy that's on the way. He might be... Emerge in a year and a half from now.

Brendan Schaub 51:17 True.

Joe Rogan 51:18 It's just... It's just what happens with these guys.

Brendan Schaub 51:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:19 I mean, we can never pretend that the talent that exists today is the only talent that we're gonna see in a year from now.

Brendan Schaub 51:23 Correct.

Joe Rogan 51:23 It's crazy.

Brendan Schaub 51:24 Yeah. And, uh, UFC's good.

Joe Rogan 51:25 And I think those guys are... They're gonna be better, man. Everybody's gonna be better.

Brendan Schaub 51:27 They're coming.

Joe Rogan 51:27 They're all watching Khabib, they're all watching Tony, they're all watching Barboza, they're watching Ben Askren, they're watching all these people. Everybody's just getting better. They're just getting better.

Brendan Schaub 51:35 But, but notice, every guy you mentioned besides Tony is a specialist who's great at one thing.

Joe Rogan 51:40 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 51:40 Every guy you just mes- mentioned.

Joe Rogan 51:42 There's something to be said for a specialist, man. There's something to be said for a, a person who's like a Gokhan Saki-

Brendan Schaub 51:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:47 ... who you just don't wanna fucking stand up with him. It's just, it's just-

Brendan Schaub 51:51 I'd watch him and Jon.

Joe Rogan 51:51 ... too high level.

Brendan Schaub 51:52 I'd watch him and Jon.

Joe Rogan 51:53 Jon would take him down. He's not ready for Jon.

Brendan Schaub 51:55 Literally 30 seconds. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:56 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, he's-

Brendan Schaub 51:56 No, but I, I, I, I'll pay to watch that guy fight every year.

Joe Rogan 51:59 I'll pay to watch him fight anyone in the world, but-

Brendan Schaub 52:01 He got hurt, for Christ sakes.

Joe Rogan 52:02 But if Gokhan can get his, his wrestling skills and continue to hone them, he's a guy like a-

Brendan Schaub 52:09 That's late, brother.

Joe Rogan 52:10 True, but he's a guy like a Cro Cop who's so explosive and powerful, that if you just get him some take-down defense, it's gonna be fucking hard with the cage to take that guy down.

Brendan Schaub 52:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:21 You know? I mean, Cro Cop became, like very short... Very quickly, he went from being a guy who fought Wanderlei Silva in a special rules match.

Brendan Schaub 52:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:29 Remember? Beats him standing up, and then-

Brendan Schaub 52:31 He did.

Joe Rogan 52:31 ... they had some deal where he could only go to the ground for, like, 30 seconds or something like that.

Brendan Schaub 52:35 Very s- Some Japanese weird shit, yes.

Joe Rogan 52:37 By the time they fight the second time, he destroys him. I mean, destroys him. Just beat him senseless and then head kicked him.

Brendan Schaub 52:42 He fully emerged into that wrestling world.

Joe Rogan 52:44 Dude.

Brendan Schaub 52:44 And he also... You know, he, he... Werdum, before he was even fighting, was his jujitsu coach.

Joe Rogan 52:49 Mm-hmm.

Brendan Schaub 52:49 Do you know that? So Werdum was helping-

Joe Rogan 52:50 So was Dean Lister.

Brendan Schaub 52:51 Yeah, so he-

Joe Rogan 52:51 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 52:51 ... he brought all these guys in so he could-

Joe Rogan 52:53 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 52:53 ... learn the ground. You know, it... But he's also younger than Gokhan at the time. So when I see guys like... And I'm not hating on people, like, "Oh, you hate on Francis."

Joe Rogan 53:01 No.

Brendan Schaub 53:01 No, I don't hate on him. What happens is, when you're... He's number... Still ranked number one in the world. When you're Francis, you're ranked number one in the world, there's no gimme fights, there's no warmup. The UFC can't do it. So-

Joe Rogan 53:11 Right.

Brendan Schaub 53:11 ... you, you're at this level where you don't really have time to make up for it. You can't take three years off at the age of 34 and learn how to wrestle. It, it, it's... You don't have that time. You just don't have that time, man. It's a bummer. It's like getting to the NFL, playing for the Patriots, and you can only go to the left with routes. You can go, "Ah, I'll try and learn to the right," like, well, f-... What are you talking about, man?

Joe Rogan 53:32 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 53:32 You can't go both fucking ways? Like, "No, but I'll learn." Like, no, get the fuck out of here. We got someone to do it, man. You know?

Joe Rogan 53:38 I-

Brendan Schaub 53:38 It's a weird reference, I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 53:39 It's... No, I know what you're saying.

Brendan Schaub 53:40 It's fucking weird. Jamie might've got it.

Joe Rogan 53:41 It's just... I know, I know what you're saying. I, I kinda get it, that someone doesn't know how to run a certain-

Brendan Schaub 53:44 That's why you don't have to say it at that high of level.

Joe Rogan 53:46 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 53:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:46 I, I totally understand. Um, but seeing as this guy five years ago couldn't do anything, right? Five years ago, he just gets into MMA. Five years later, he's-

Brendan Schaub 53:55 You're speaking about Francis?

Joe Rogan 53:56 Yeah. Five years. In five years he becomes the number one heavyweight contender, a terrifying betting favorite over the champion, who, if he wins, breaks the record of the most ever successful title defenses in UFC history. So e- e- even though he's won two title fights in a row, again, he's world-class competition.

Brendan Schaub 54:15 Still underdog.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Still underdog. That's how good five years-

Brendan Schaub 54:18 Fuck you, America.

Joe Rogan 54:18 Five years in. So just imagine, if this guy has the kinda appetite for learning and, and, and continuing to grow that he showed there, think about GSP. GSP had zero high school wrestling, zero college wrestling. Started picking up quick, was training with Russian nationals. They... Up in Montreal, did a lot of technical work, learned the basics of it. And as a s-... The kinda athlete that GSP is, he just started implementing it, started getting good at it. S-... Francis would have to do something like that.

Brendan Schaub 54:47 Literally have to. Or, you know, at the heavyweight division, maybe he doesn't and he's just that guy, you know? That he knocks people out and that's what he wants. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 54:54 Oh, he wants to be the best, man. But I think that he can be, but there's gonna be some guys that are gonna be able to take him down. And-

Brendan Schaub 55:01 For... F- f- if... When you say some guys, and they, they could do it for the next 10 years. That when, whe-

Joe Rogan 55:07 Right.

Brendan Schaub 55:07 ... he's always gonna be able to get taken down. There's a certain level where even if you hire fricking, you know, Ben Askren as your coach, he can't teach you enough to make up for those gaps against a DC.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Right.

Brendan Schaub 55:17 Against a Cain Velasquez. You know-

Joe Rogan 55:18 Not against DC, yeah.

Brendan Schaub 55:19 Like, like, uh, uh, e- even, uh, uh, against, uh, uh, Bladezz, uh, Curtis Bladezz-

Joe Rogan 55:23 Right.

Brendan Schaub 55:23 ... who's a national champion.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Well, Curtis Bladezz is also a big guy.Curtis Blaydes is a big athlete-

Brendan Schaub 55:27 Powerful.

Joe Rogan 55:28 ... very powerful athlete and really good wrestler. So he's not the same level as Daniel Cormier, but he's a much bigger man. Those shots that he took against Hunt-

Brendan Schaub 55:37 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 55:38 ... holy, holy fuck, dude. Like that was-

Brendan Schaub 55:40 That whole, that whole card.

Joe Rogan 55:41 ... he was going like this.

Brendan Schaub 55:41 That whole card.

Joe Rogan 55:42 I was like flinching, like, he's ready to drop. I'm like, "He's gonna drop." I'm like, "Goddamn, he didn't drop," and then he took him down. I was like, "Wow."

Brendan Schaub 55:48 I text his cornerman, Cody Donovan, my best friend. I went, "Bro, if you tell him to throw his right hand again, I'm gonna fucking bust."

Joe Rogan 55:54 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 55:54 He should literally double jab and get in to the legs. He needs to quit throwing that slow right hand because Mark Hunt's such a high-level striker, he sees it coming from a mile away.

Joe Rogan 56:03 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 56:03 It's so amateur. He has, he... So him and Francis, if you could put those together, you have the best heavyweight of all time. You have one guy who's fucking phenomenal at striking, you got another guy phenomenal at wrestling. Can't wrestle, can't strike.

Joe Rogan 56:16 (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 56:17 (laughs) You put them together and you got this fucking transformer Ninja Turtle who just fucking does work.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Curtis can strike, he just can't strike at the same level that Mark Hunt has. But what he can take is a fucking tremendous punch.

Brendan Schaub 56:28 Which is a huge, huge-

Joe Rogan 56:29 For now, for as long as it lasts.

Brendan Schaub 56:31 Correct.

Joe Rogan 56:31 Right? And will it last against a guy like Francis in the second fight?

Brendan Schaub 56:34 I'll tell you this. I'd rather be, if I had to pick, I love both guys. I'd rather be in Curtis Blaydes' shoes than Francis, I will say that.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Interesting.

Brendan Schaub 56:41 Where I have a gr- where I have a grappling background.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 56:44 Because what happens if, if I'm the striker Francis, I can't control if you want to take me down.

Joe Rogan 56:50 Right.

Brendan Schaub 56:50 Francis can control... I'm sorry, Curtis can control whether the fight goes to the ground or not. He c- he dictates where the fight goes. Francis does not.

Joe Rogan 56:57 After the first round.

Brendan Schaub 56:58 Francis does not.

Joe Rogan 56:59 After the first round. The only thing that could change... Now, here's the thing. Is Francis putting on any weight due to strength training, or is he just that big?

Brendan Schaub 57:07 (sighs) He used to fight at 205, you know that?

Joe Rogan 57:10 He did?

Brendan Schaub 57:10 He fought at 205 before.

Joe Rogan 57:11 When?

Brendan Schaub 57:12 When he was like 13. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:14 Frances did?

Brendan Schaub 57:14 No, I don't know. Look it up, Jimmy.

Joe Rogan 57:15 Are you serious?

Brendan Schaub 57:15 I'm pretty sure he used to fight at 205.

Joe Rogan 57:17 How is that even possible?

Brendan Schaub 57:18 I have no idea. Maybe it's weird African rules.

Joe Rogan 57:19 He's only been fighting for five years.

Brendan Schaub 57:21 Yeah, I don't... I- I'm pretty sure he fought at 205. Am I batshit crazy here?

Joe Rogan 57:24 205 what? (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 57:26 Yeah, 205 in African stones, which is really 265.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Do you know what, um, a stone is? Like English, proper English stone?

Brendan Schaub 57:32 It's so weird. What is it?

Joe Rogan 57:33 I think it's like... Is it 13? 14?

Brendan Schaub 57:35 12.

Joe Rogan 57:36 12?

Brendan Schaub 57:37 I think it's 12. I'm half-English, I should know this.

Joe Rogan 57:39 English people are screaming, "How come you don't know that, but we know who your president is?"

Brendan Schaub 57:44 14.

Joe Rogan 57:45 14.

Brendan Schaub 57:45 14, good call, sir.

Joe Rogan 57:46 14. Yeah, it could be 13.

Brendan Schaub 57:47 Let's not, let's not call things in stones, though, huh?

Joe Rogan 57:48 It could never be 13. That's an unlucky number. They would never use 13, though.

Brendan Schaub 57:51 That's why I said 12.

Joe Rogan 57:52 That's good. I was in a hotel the other day, it didn't have a 13th floor. So it's 12 to 14.

Brendan Schaub 57:56 Most of them don't, most of them don't. Also, grow up.

Joe Rogan 57:59 Exactly.

Brendan Schaub 57:59 Do we believe in this-

Joe Rogan 58:00 So stupid. (laughs)

Brendan Schaub 58:01 It's dangerous.

Joe Rogan 58:03 It's so stupid and they're coddling to people so bad.

Brendan Schaub 58:05 Did you take Friday the 13th off, for God's sakes?

Joe Rogan 58:08 "Oh, I think, well, it's hard, it's a dangerous day."

Brendan Schaub 58:10 Oh my God. Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 58:11 "It's the day of the devil." (imitates music)

Brendan Schaub 58:12 No 13th floor. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:16 People are so goofy.

Brendan Schaub 58:17 So weird, man.

Joe Rogan 58:18 People are super goofy with shit like that. They get... Some people get real goofy.

Brendan Schaub 58:22 Strange, man.

Joe Rogan 58:23 Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 58:23 Dude, how about your boy, uh, Tyson Pedro?

Joe Rogan 58:25 Dude. Fucking good.

Brendan Schaub 58:27 Tyson, you have my seat on JRE, by the way, man. Anytime I'm here, give him my seat.

Joe Rogan 58:31 Come on down, dude. Come on down.

Brendan Schaub 58:32 Yeah, come on down. Dude, his show and mine. I'm a huge fucking fan.

Joe Rogan 58:34 He's a bad motherfucker, and he's a fun guy too.

Brendan Schaub 58:36 Bad motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 58:37 Yeah. Super talented.

Brendan Schaub 58:37 All of Australia has just put on a show.

Joe Rogan 58:40 It's a, a merging hotspot. Well, it's been a hotspot for a long time.

Brendan Schaub 58:44 It's been a hotspot, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:44 But Australia, like John Wayne Parr from Muay Thai.

Brendan Schaub 58:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Obviously Ray Sefo in, from New Zealand, and um-

Brendan Schaub 58:53 Mark Hunt being the leader, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:54 ... Hunt, yeah, and a few other guys too.

Brendan Schaub 58:56 They've got Robert Whittaker, your champion.

Joe Rogan 58:58 Yeah, Robert Whittaker, Australian. Yeah, that whole part of the world.

Brendan Schaub 59:00 Tyson Pedro, Monster.

Joe Rogan 59:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Brendan Schaub 59:02 And then the heavyweight, the big heavyweight. I forget his name, he fought a monster.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Dan Hangman from, uh, New Zealand.

Brendan Schaub 59:07 Yeah, man, they got a lot of monsters.

Joe Rogan 59:09 Right? Good killers. You got killers there.

Brendan Schaub 59:10 Have you done shows in Australia?

Joe Rogan 59:12 Yeah, I had a good time, man.

Brendan Schaub 59:13 Such a great place to do-

Joe Rogan 59:14 I did Melbourne. What's up there?

Jamie Vernon 59:16 There was UFC weigh-ins for Ngannou, so he started at 250.

Joe Rogan 59:19 Okay, so he started 254.

Brendan Schaub 59:20 Well, no, I'm saying... No, he-

Jamie Vernon 59:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's what best I could find.

Brendan Schaub 59:23 Yeah, oh, man.

Joe Rogan 59:25 Hmm.

Brendan Schaub 59:25 So I'm, I'm almost positive someone told me he fought at 205.

Joe Rogan 59:27 How's that possible? Because he... That would mean he put on 50 pounds in like two years. (laughs) Is it possible? Uh-oh, skeptical face.

Jamie Vernon 59:37 I can't mind you in a month.

Brendan Schaub 59:37 I'm not saying anything.

Joe Rogan 59:38 What are you saying?

Brendan Schaub 59:39 I'm not... I'm saying when he was 12, he fought at 205. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:42 Dude, are you... Are you not saying anything, you're saying everything that-

Brendan Schaub 59:43 When he was eight, he fought at 205.

Joe Rogan 59:44 You're saying everything.

Brendan Schaub 59:45 When he was eight, he fought at 185.

Joe Rogan 59:47 I know what the fuck you're saying, dude.

Brendan Schaub 59:48 No, I promise you I'm not saying that. I would never do that to that man.

Joe Rogan 59:50 I know what the fuck you're saying.

Brendan Schaub 59:51 I get to run into these guys for god's sakes.

Joe Rogan 59:52 Who said that he thought he was like 40 years old, he was lying about his age? Somebody said that. Somebody was fucking around.

Brendan Schaub 59:55 Someone did say that to us after-

Joe Rogan 59:57 Was that Derek? It's probably Derek Lewis because he's so funny.

Brendan Schaub 59:59 No, Derek didn't say that, did he?

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 Did he?

Brendan Schaub 1:00:01 No. Derek's fighting this weekend.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 Who's he fighting? Marcin Hubera?

Brendan Schaub 1:00:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker. That guy's a good striker.

Brendan Schaub 1:00:08 God, I want Derek. I want Derek to win.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 It's a good fight. He's got a good shot.

Brendan Schaub 1:00:10 Let's go Derek Francis. Derek Francis, black on black crime. What's up, black panther?

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Ooh.

Brendan Schaub 1:00:15 Sick fight.

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Derek's a beast, man. This nigga's phenomenal.

Brendan Schaub 1:00:17 I like watching him fight. He was talking about retiring.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 Okay, yeah. Marcin Hubera. Yeah, why did he want to retire?

Brendan Schaub 1:00:26 I don't know. Goddamn, they're still pushing Sage Northcutt on us, huh? Um...

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 (laughs) He's learning and growing. He's only 18 years old.

Brendan Schaub 1:00:35 Goddammit.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Why you mad about Sage Northcutt fighting?

Brendan Schaub 1:00:36 I'm not mad at... I'm mad at his haircut. I'm not mad at Sage. I think