JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

Ilia Topuria 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, well, my man. What's happening? Pleasure.

Ilia Topuria 0:15 No, please, my pleasure-

Joe Rogan 0:16 My pleasure.

Ilia Topuria 0:16 ... thank you very much for having me here.

Joe Rogan 0:18 My honor. I'm, uh, I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm ve- very excited about your journey into the lightweight division.

Ilia Topuria 0:26 Something that's, I feel very excited also about that.

Joe Rogan 0:29 What are you walking around at? Like what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?

Ilia Topuria 0:33 Hmm, I'm go- I'm gonna tell you in kilos.

Joe Rogan 0:35 Okay.

Ilia Topuria 0:36 I walk around 80, 82. That's-

Joe Rogan 0:39 What is that, Jamie, like 160, 170?

Narrator 0:42 175.

Joe Rogan 0:42 175?

Ilia Topuria 0:43 180.

Joe Rogan 0:43 180?

Ilia Topuria 0:44 Most closely, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:44 Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight, 35 pounds?

Ilia Topuria 0:47 25, 30 pounds, like-

Joe Rogan 0:49 Oof.

Ilia Topuria 0:49 Yeah, that's a lot.

Joe Rogan 0:50 Hard.

Ilia Topuria 0:51 That was the hardest part-

Joe Rogan 0:52 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 0:52 ... of my train- of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple fights that, that I had, 'cause it's like I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in the fight game, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:05 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:06 And it was taking a lot of time and energy from me, and I'm like my dream is to, to become a world champion. I want to end up this, this chapter that I have, that I started in 145, and now it's time to, to really enjoy it, and I'm very excited about that. I already have one fight in 155.

Joe Rogan 1:24 Jai Herbert.

Ilia Topuria 1:25 Jai Herbert.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Yeah. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. It doesn't make any sense.

Ilia Topuria 1:32 Why does Logan do that?

Joe Rogan 1:32 I don't... It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do. It's like you're, you know, I mean if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right? So it's crazy that you're the 145-pound champion but you're 180-pound man. It's kind of nuts.

Ilia Topuria 1:47 Yeah, and, but, but at the same time if you go to the next weight class, you are playing with a disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight.

Joe Rogan 1:55 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:56 So if you don't do that, at the end of the day you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Yeah, like Islam. Islam Makhachev is huge. I mean, that guy, how he makes 155 is... I don't understand it. Every time I stand next to him, like-

Ilia Topuria 2:10 And, and-

Joe Rogan 2:10 ... how are you 155?

Ilia Topuria 2:11 How much do you think he, he walks around?

Joe Rogan 2:13 He's got to be 190-ish, in the 190 range.

Ilia Topuria 2:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16 He's got to be. That's what he looks like to me.

Ilia Topuria 2:18 I never saw him in person.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big. I mean, he's, he's not a small g- he's not 155-pound man. It's just so silly. The whole thing is just, it's, it's an, it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes. I, I've talked to Dana about this. I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC.

Ilia Topuria 2:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:42 I said the first thing you should do is get rid of this. Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes, you know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85, and then 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps are too big. 20 pounds is nuts.

Ilia Topuria 2:57 Yeah. I would do something with the, with the drug test. Like if I go to your home to, to, to make the drug test, I put you in, in, in the scale, if you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the, in the, in the weight- next weight class. Just to give you an, an example, for example, if you're fighting at 100 kilograms, I'm, I'm gonna say-

Joe Rogan 3:17 Okay.

Ilia Topuria 3:18 ... in kilograms, and I go to your house, I, I do the, the drug test, I put you in the scale, and you weigh this, 110 kilograms, I will force you to go to the next weight class.

Joe Rogan 3:28 Yeah. Th- I think that's realistic. Th- that makes sense. And I think that they should have more weight classes 'cause the weight class gaps are just too large.

Ilia Topuria 3:36 Oh, maybe that's a option also.

Joe Rogan 3:37 Yeah. The, I mean, the, at the lower weight classes it's 10 pounds, which seems reasonable, but really at the lower weight classes, you know, when you're li- like 125 and 135, it could easily be five pounds.

Ilia Topuria 3:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:50 Five pounds is reasonable. But Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 12, 15, 20 weight classes like boxing has. He wants it to be like the UFC has now.

Ilia Topuria 4:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:00 But it's not enough. There's just not enough.

Ilia Topuria 4:02 I don't really know the real reason behind that, but I would love to talk to Dana and ask him this, th- this question also because it's kind of dangerous also-

Joe Rogan 4:10 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 4:10 ... for the guys, and m- many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they gonna make the weight.

Joe Rogan 4:18 Right. Exactly. And they're gonna be compromised.

Ilia Topuria 4:20 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:21 I mean there's a lot of guys who fight just d- deeply dehydrated from the day before-

Ilia Topuria 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:26 ... and even though they've rehydrated themselves, their brain's not rehydrated yet.

Ilia Topuria 4:29 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:30 It's not smart, and it do- it's not, it's also not necessary. Like why would y- it, it would make for better fights. Why would you want someone to be physically compromised 24 hours before they're fighting? It doesn't make any sense at all.

Ilia Topuria 4:43 But at the same time, the weight cut takes something out from you that's crazy. It's like putting a dog inside a room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room with f- full of food.

Joe Rogan 4:59 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 4:59 It's like the same thing, you know? When I'm cutting the weight, I'm li- I'm a different person.

Joe Rogan 5:03 Mm.

Ilia Topuria 5:03 I f- I feel that I'm like... My mind goes different, my thought process is different, everything is so different at, at that moment. I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Yeah, more focused-

Ilia Topuria 5:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:16 ... dialed in.

Ilia Topuria 5:17 More f- Exactly.

Joe Rogan 5:18 Dominick Cruz says it's a good thing. He says, uh, he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in. He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fight.

Ilia Topuria 5:25 How much he cuts?

Joe Rogan 5:27 I don't think he cuts that much.

Ilia Topuria 5:28 That's why-

Joe Rogan 5:29 He's what, 35? (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 5:30 (laughs) That's why he likes it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:32 (laughs) Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it.

Ilia Topuria 5:34 In game.

Joe Rogan 5:35 You know, 'cause when he was fighting at 85-

Ilia Topuria 5:36 Wow.

Joe Rogan 5:36 ... he was weighing in-

Ilia Topuria 5:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 5:38 ... at 85 and then fighting in the sca- in a cage at 225, 226, which is crazy.

Ilia Topuria 5:44 I don't know how, how that guy was making 1- 185.

Joe Rogan 5:47 I don't know.

Ilia Topuria 5:47 That's crazy, because he's huge and he's so tall.

Joe Rogan 5:50 Well how about Dricus du Plessis? How the fuck is he 185? That guy is huge.

Ilia Topuria 5:55 Yeah, that guy is huge also.

Joe Rogan 5:56 He's a tank. There's a lot of these guys, like... But it's, it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185-pound man but he's not. Dricus is probably, when he gets into the cage, he's well into the 220s.

Ilia Topuria 6:09 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 6:09 He's a big guy.

Ilia Topuria 6:11 I don't know in what weight, w- weight he, he walks around, but he's huge guy also. And Khamzat, when he was fighting in 170-

Joe Rogan 6:17 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 6:18 ... he was big also. He was a- almost killing himself, ma-

Joe Rogan 6:22 The craziest one-

Ilia Topuria 6:23 ... trying to make the weight.

Joe Rogan 6:23 ... was Anthony Rumble Johnson. Do you remember Anthony?

Ilia Topuria 6:26 Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:26 Anthony, I ran into him once in between fights and I said, "How much do you weigh?" He said, "230."

Ilia Topuria 6:33 Wow.

Joe Rogan 6:34 He was fighting 170.

Ilia Topuria 6:35 He ch- He switched a- how many weight classes? He started from 170-

Joe Rogan 6:39 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 6:39 ... he went to, like, light heavyweight, and then-

Joe Rogan 6:42 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 6:42 ... he end up fighting in, in the heavyweight division, right?

Joe Rogan 6:44 He went to middleweight and didn't make weight. He missed weight and lost that fight, and then he fought heavyweight outside the UFC, and then came back and fought light heavyweight in the UFC.

Ilia Topuria 6:55 You know, something similar, uh, happened to me also. I started fighting in the bantamweight division.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Really?

Ilia Topuria 7:01 Yeah. Before the UFC, like, in Cage Warriors, when I was fighting in the Cage Warriors, I actually missed a weight also when I was, was fighting for the belt. I was, I, I was fighting at that time in the bantamweight division. Then I s- uh, I kept fighting in, in the featherweight, and now I'm in the lightweight. I hope I, I don't end up fighting in the welterweight. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:22 (laughs) How old were you when you first started fighting?

Ilia Topuria 7:25 L- In MMA, you're asking? Or, or in, uh-

Joe Rogan 7:27 Well, ult- When did you first start martial arts?

Ilia Topuria 7:31 With four years old, my, my dad put me with my brother in, in judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept practicing with the Greco Ro- with the Greco-Roman wrestling, and then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old. And completely by chance, we find a gym and we started training the, the MMA, the mixed martial arts.

Joe Rogan 7:54 Totally by chance?

Ilia Topuria 7:56 Totally by chance.

Joe Rogan 7:57 Wow. So were you a, a mixed martial arts fan at all?

Ilia Topuria 8:01 I didn't know anything about the mixed martial arts. I didn't know anyth- anything about the BJJ, the ground game, any fucking thing.

Joe Rogan 8:07 Wow.

Ilia Topuria 8:07 So we went to j- to Spain and we wanted to keep w- with the same discipline as we, we were doing in Georgia with the Greco-Roman wrestling, but they don't have the culture of, of that sport. So we were a little bit sad, you know, because we wanted that sport. My brother was really, really good on that. So my mo- mom was, uh, working and he saw a man with the cauliflower ears. He went to ... she went to, to him and she asked him like, uh, "What you doing? Because my kids want to, to do wrestling. Do you train in, in some gym or, or something?" And he said, "No, I'm doing the BJJ. Bring your kids and I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you the gym." She came to home and my dad and, and my mom, sh- and they started to convince us like, "There's a gym, they are practicing like jiu-jitsu, uh, MMA, all the sports." And, um, I was like, "But what the fuck is this? I don't know what's this."

Joe Rogan 9:06 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 9:06 And my dad start- started to show me the videos of the Gracies. He, he, he told me like, "This, uh, one of the best sports in the world right now. You are gonna guys love it." This and that. And at that day, we went to the gym and I felt in love since the first second.

Joe Rogan 9:22 Well, it's actually a great base to start out from, starting with judo and then Greco-Roman wrestling-

Ilia Topuria 9:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:27 ... and then going into jiu-jitsu. It's really great because you already have a- an established grappling base.

Ilia Topuria 9:32 Mm-Hmm. It's great, of course. My recommendation for everyone is if you want to have a career in, in, in MMA, you should start with wrestling because for me personally, because this is my p- personal experience, that it's much easier to learn in the future the boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling.

Joe Rogan 9:54 Really?

Ilia Topuria 9:55 For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in, in, in many people.

Joe Rogan 9:59 But how old were you when you first started boxing?

Ilia Topuria 10:03 17 years old.

Joe Rogan 10:05 That's fairly old.

Ilia Topuria 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Like, when you think about how high level your striking is.

Ilia Topuria 10:08 Of course, it is.

Joe Rogan 10:09 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 10:10 But when I started I was like, "Okay, I'm very good with the wrestling. I can take people down, I can control them. I have a great ground game. But what if I go to the highest competition and s- I, I find some, some adversities? I have to be able to fight in the, in, in, in the striking also. So I have to deve- develop my game in the striking."

Joe Rogan 10:32 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 10:32 And I start from, from, from that, and I start with my brother. We were like the f- the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to leave it. So we were studying every day, all day, like, so obsessed. We were watching like all the videos of Julio Cesar Chavez-

Joe Rogan 10:47 Oh, wow.

Ilia Topuria 10:47 ... of Canelo, all that, practicing all the techniques. And then, uh, putting in, in interaction the sparrings and all that. And I was like finding my style-

Joe Rogan 10:58 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 10:58 ... what that, that I really like to do.

Joe Rogan 11:01 Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts.

Ilia Topuria 11:06 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 11:06 So, like, you are the first champion-

Ilia Topuria 11:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:09 ... from Spain in the UFC. So it's, it's very interesting that you, you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet.

Ilia Topuria 11:20 So I was the first guy to, to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top five, and then the, the, the world champion. We, we had a guy in, in Spain who fought in, in, in the UFC, I don't know if you remember him, Enrique Wasabi.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Okay. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 11:36 He did The Ultimate Fighter. Then we have another guy also, Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also. But before that we didn't have anyone in the UFC yet.

Joe Rogan 11:46 So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain?

Ilia Topuria 11:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:51 There was amateur MMA?

Ilia Topuria 11:52 Mm-Hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:53 And-

Ilia Topuria 11:53 I made three fights in amateur, and then I start with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain, and at some point it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European t- territory to, to, to get a fight.... yeah, and everything started from that.

Joe Rogan 12:14 But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally, uh, well, there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite, high-level competition.

Ilia Topuria 12:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:24 But it seems like that's not the case with your gym.

Ilia Topuria 12:26 No, it wasn't. So I don't know, I don't know what was the reason, to be honest, to, to came this far. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 12:35 Well, that's always the question with champions. Like, are champions born or are they bred? Because there's, there's gyms that develop... Like, Marvin Hagler came out of the Petroneli Brothers Gym in Brockton, Massachusetts.

Ilia Topuria 12:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:47 They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Hagler is one of the greatest of all time.

Ilia Topuria 12:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:52 It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel.

Ilia Topuria 12:56 The same thing. There was something inside me that made me the person who I am today.

Joe Rogan 13:04 D- did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA, that you were gonna fight professionally?

Ilia Topuria 13:09 Yeah, since the first day. So my mindset always was the, the same, exactly the same as I have right now. I'm like, "If someone did it, I also can do it. And if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it."

Joe Rogan 13:24 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 13:24 This is the mindset I, I, I always had.

Joe Rogan 13:26 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 13:27 And it's like... Yeah. That... I think that the champion are, are... They are not born, they are made also, because you can burn in a, mm, extraordinary, uh, situation, but you can end up, mm, s- so bad, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:44 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 13:44 And the opposite also. You can burn in a, I don't know, crazy situation and end up in a paradise.

Joe Rogan 13:51 Yeah, it's, it's such an interesting thing because they... All champions are not the same type of person either. You know, you got guys like Sugar Sean O'Malley who's silly and smokes weed and has crazy hair.

Ilia Topuria 14:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:03 And then you got (clears throat) guys like Alex Pereira, very stoic, you know, very serious. It's... Everyone's different.

Ilia Topuria 14:09 He's very serious. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:10 Very serious.

Ilia Topuria 14:10 I met him in, in, in, in Sydney. Uh, I went with my brother because he made his UFC debut. And yeah, he was kind of quiet, like... (knocks on wood)

Joe Rogan 14:20 Yeah, he's intense. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 14:22 Yeah. (laughs) He's so serious.

Joe Rogan 14:23 Yeah, he's intense. I remember watching him fight for the first time in Glory-

Ilia Topuria 14:27 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 14:27 ... in kickboxing, and I was like-

Ilia Topuria 14:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:29 "Jesus Christ."

Ilia Topuria 14:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:30 His left swing chaos people, I was like, "This guy is different."

Ilia Topuria 14:34 Huge.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 14:35 Great.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Crazy power. His power is just ridiculous. I mean, to like hit guys with a block-

Ilia Topuria 14:40 Who d- who do you love watching fight at this point?

Joe Rogan 14:41 I love watching you fight.

Ilia Topuria 14:43 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 14:43 Yeah, I'm a giant fan.

Ilia Topuria 14:45 Come on, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:45 Um, I like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by the, the game in all different styles. I mean, I, I like watching all the champions. I mean, uh, I love watching Merab fight.

Ilia Topuria 14:57 Wow.

Joe Rogan 14:57 He's a fucking animal.

Ilia Topuria 14:59 He's the machine.

Joe Rogan 15:00 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 15:00 I love him.

Joe Rogan 15:01 He's an animal.

Ilia Topuria 15:02 He's an animal.

Joe Rogan 15:02 I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is fucking crazy. It's like superhuman cardio.

Ilia Topuria 15:09 And I'm gonna tell you something about Merab that surprised me, that maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room. But I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon. Wow, that man is a fucking machine.

Joe Rogan 15:29 He's a fucking machine.

Ilia Topuria 15:30 I'm, I'm a... Right now you ask me who I love to, to w- watch fight, that's Merab. I would pay, take my money.

Joe Rogan 15:39 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 15:39 When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point, I'm like, "Bro, take my money

Narrator 15:43 I want it."

Joe Rogan 15:43 But I love Umar too. Umar, you know, that fight was incredible. That was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful, so high level. And, you know, to see him w- make Umar start to wilt, to see Umar, like you see the wobble-

Ilia Topuria 15:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:59 ... when guys start getting fatigued, you see there's like a little bit of, like, loose movement in the way-

Ilia Topuria 16:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:03 You know, you see that? Merab had none, zero. Just shooting like, like he was in the first round in the fifth round.

Ilia Topuria 16:10 Because this is what I exactly think that happens to Umar, because you see, uh, Merab from outside, like you're sitting and you, you are seeing him training or fighting, and you're like, "He's not gonna be able to take me down. He's not gonna be able to do that to me." And then you get inside that octagon with him and everything changes.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 16:29 It's like you have a, a machine in front of you who has like nonstop. He doesn't-

Joe Rogan 16:35 Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Dan- Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday.

Ilia Topuria 16:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Merab wasn't home, he was out running.

Ilia Topuria 16:42 (laughs) Yeah?

Joe Rogan 16:43 He won the title on Saturday, Daniel went to his house on Sunday, Merab's out running.

Ilia Topuria 16:47 Wow, he's crazy. He c- he came, he came to Spain also to help me once when, when I had the training camp, I was supposed to fight with Moosa. He came to, to, to help me. Crazy. We... The same exactly, exactly team. We, we were like finishing the training, he was going for a run.

Joe Rogan 17:03 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 17:03 He was going like actually to, to his house running. You know-

Joe Rogan 17:06 Yeah, there's no shortcuts.

Ilia Topuria 17:07 No, there's no shortcuts.

Joe Rogan 17:08 No shortcuts.

Ilia Topuria 17:09 No shortcut.

Joe Rogan 17:09 But, you know, like, to answer your question, I'm... I, you know, I'm fascinated by all the different styles, you know. I l- I like watching everybody fight, you know. I love Volkanovski, you know. I loved watching him fight this past weekend.

Ilia Topuria 17:21 Wow.

Joe Rogan 17:21 And...

Ilia Topuria 17:22 He's so great. He-

Joe Rogan 17:24 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 17:24 I was so happy for him this, this Saturday because he really deser- de- deserved to get the, that title back.

Joe Rogan 17:30 (clicks tongue) Does it bother you to see someone win your title?

Ilia Topuria 17:34 No, not at all.

Joe Rogan 17:35 You're good?

Ilia Topuria 17:36 I'm good.

Joe Rogan 17:36 You're like, I'm good?

Ilia Topuria 17:37 I- I'm good. Happy for him.

Joe Rogan 17:38 You established, you won, you defended, and like...

Ilia Topuria 17:40 I won, I defended. Right now I have completely different challenge in front of me. I wish him nothing but the best, and to everyone, like I wish the best wins all the time.

Joe Rogan 17:49 That's great.

Ilia Topuria 17:50 Yeah. I don't, I don't care.

Joe Rogan 17:51 That's great. What about Paddy Pimblett though? (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 17:54 He, he did a great job. He did-

Joe Rogan 17:56 He did a great job.

Ilia Topuria 17:56 He, he did what he had to do.

Joe Rogan 17:58 He did.

Ilia Topuria 17:59 But for me it's like I- I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be completely honest with you. For me, Chandler, he never was a, mm, extraordinary fighter. He was like average level of fighter, like... Who did he beat, like, in the UFC?

Joe Rogan 18:15 Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson.

Ilia Topuria 18:16 Oh, Dan Hooker. Hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Dan Hooker's a good fighter. He just, he caught... Well, Dan Hooker had that war with Dustin Poirier. That, and Dan, Dustin Poirier is a very good fighter.

Ilia Topuria 18:28 H- how many losses he had?

Joe Rogan 18:29 He's got a few losses.

Ilia Topuria 18:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:30 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 18:31 He's a good fight-

Joe Rogan 18:32 A few losses.

Ilia Topuria 18:32 ... a very entertaining fighter.

Joe Rogan 18:33 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 18:33 Like, for the fans-

Joe Rogan 18:34 He's a wild dog.

Ilia Topuria 18:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:35 When he fights.

Ilia Topuria 18:36 He's a dog.

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 18:36 He, he, he goes inside that, that, that octagon and he fights. But yeah, I-

Joe Rogan 18:43 I think he's on a resurgence. I think, you know, he had a skid for a while, and now he's rebuilding himself, and he's on a resu-

Ilia Topuria 18:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:49 You smile and look at you, you motherfucker. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 18:54 (laughs) So he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson-

Joe Rogan 18:57 I think-

Ilia Topuria 18:57 ... when he was, like, almost four years old.

Joe Rogan 18:59 I think, honestly, we got Michael Chandler after his prime. Um, if you go watch Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez in Bellator, those were fucking crazy fights, crazy fights.

Ilia Topuria 19:09 Yeah, but at the end of the day-

Joe Rogan 19:11 Wars.

Ilia Topuria 19:11 ... you see wars.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 19:12 It's a very competitive fight.

Joe Rogan 19:14 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 19:14 You see almost a bar fight.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 19:16 You see two guys in the middle of the octagon exchanging punches, but you don't see technique, you don't see skills. You see a great fight because as a fans, it's, uh, very entertaining to watch fights like that. But if you really think about it, it's like you don't see skills in that fight. You don't see someone trying to take you down, control you, some great submissions, great transitions, I don't know, striking. You, you, you see a guy that he's, like, looking for a combination, he's looking for his moment, creating a spaces. You don't see, like... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 19:51 I see what you're saying. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's the end of tax season, and I know by now you all are probably sick of numbers, but there's one more expense we need to talk about, and that's how much you're investing in your well-being. The cost of traditional therapy can be outrageous, between $100 and $250 a month or even more. So, how do you get the help you need without blowing your monthly budget? Use BetterHelp. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you money and time. It can even help you save up to 50% per session. And you still get quality care. Therapy is a good tool everyone can use, whether you've experienced a major trauma or not. It can teach you valuable skills you can use in your everyday life, like how to better manage all that stress tax season brings, or how to communicate better with your partner, or even how to be more mindful. Use BetterHelp to work towards your goals at a reasonable cost. It's also more convenient, since everything is online. It's easier to work in a therapy session, no matter how hectic your schedule gets. And as one of the largest online therapy platforms, BetterHelp has access to thousands of therapists with all sorts of specialties, so you can find the right fit for you. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com/jre to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jre. So it's not as tactical or technical.

Ilia Topuria 21:22 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:22 It's just wild dogs.

Ilia Topuria 21:24 It's, uh... it's just wild dogs.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Yeah. I mean, that's why Michael Chandler is so popular, 'cause he fights like a wild dog.

Ilia Topuria 21:29 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:29 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 21:29 And that's cool.

Joe Rogan 21:30 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 21:30 That's cool. You need the guys also like, like him.

Joe Rogan 21:33 But I would never recommend my friend to fight like that.

Ilia Topuria 21:36 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:37 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 21:37 I never would l- recommend to someone, "Watch this guy and learn something."

Joe Rogan 21:41 Right, right, right. Learn... Yeah. I- it's like he's so entertaining, but sometimes it's best to not be as entertaining and just to be better.

Ilia Topuria 21:51 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Yeah, and shut people down.

Ilia Topuria 21:54 At the same time, you don't have to be Bilal.

Joe Rogan 21:57 Right. I see what you're saying. But you... Bilal, I think gets too much bad rap. Like, Bilal, when he beat up Sean Brady, that was very entertaining. And Sean Brady is very good. You know, I think Bilal just does what it takes to win, and when you're in a divi-... And also, like, he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did. He had to-

Ilia Topuria 22:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:20 ... develop that over time.

Ilia Topuria 22:22 Yeah, but you... There are two type of champions for me. Like, there are champions who prepare themselves to win, and there are the other ones who prepare themselves to dominate.

Joe Rogan 22:32 Mmm.

Ilia Topuria 22:32 I prepare myself not to win because I know that I'm gonna win. I'm, I wanna win in fashion. I wanna dominate, and I wanna maul people. I want people to be entertained. I want people to be like, "Wow, I'm happy that I spend the money this Saturday night going watch this guy."

Joe Rogan 22:47 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 22:47 That's what I want.

Joe Rogan 22:48 Yeah. Someone was talking about that recently on Instagram. I don't remember who, uh, the, the coach was, but he was talking about levels of athletes. That there's, there's people that train to compete, there's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate.

Ilia Topuria 23:05 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 23:05 To be the greatest of all time.

Ilia Topuria 23:07 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 23:07 And there's a, there's a different mindset. There's a never satisfied, always improving mindset that the great champions have.

Ilia Topuria 23:13 All the time.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 23:14 I want the people to be entertained all the time. Like, when actually I was... I started with the, with, with the MMA, I was, like, recording myself, all the sparrings. And after that, I was re-watching my, my, my sparring. I was like, "Will I pay my money to watch this? What do I have to, to, to change in my game to be more entertained?"

Joe Rogan 23:39 Mmm.

Ilia Topuria 23:40 And this is how I was, like, looking m- myself all the time. I was very criti- critical with, with myself. And this is how I develop and develop and develop. And all the time I go inside the octagon, I don't go there just to win. You know what I mean? I want everyone to be like, "Wow, what he just did."

Joe Rogan 24:00 Mmm.

Ilia Topuria 24:00 How he did it. He was the greatest of all time, and he made i- m- made him look easy.

Joe Rogan 24:05 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 24:06 This is what I want.

Joe Rogan 24:07 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 24:07 I wanna change the game, you know, the people to, to... I want you to say to your friend, "Watch this guy and learn something."

Joe Rogan 24:13 Mmm. Yeah. Well-... mission accomplished.

Narrator 24:16 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 24:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:17 So far, right? So far, so good. And now, uh, a new journey into the lightweight division. You know, um, I don't understand why they won't just book you and Islam. 'Cause many times that I wish I was running the UFC, I would change-

Narrator 24:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:30 ... so many different things.

Ilia Topuria 24:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:31 That would be one of the first things I would change.

Narrator 24:33 Uh-

Joe Rogan 24:33 Like, book that fight, book that fight right away.

Ilia Topuria 24:36 You would do sound fights also, and Mars, um, I'm sure. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:41 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 24:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:41 I would probably-

Ilia Topuria 24:42 We all go with the star ship.

Joe Rogan 24:44 I have some wacky ideas.

Ilia Topuria 24:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:44 I have, I got some wacky ideas.

Ilia Topuria 24:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:45 I don't even think they should fight in a cage.

Ilia Topuria 24:48 (sniffs) Yeah?

Joe Rogan 24:49 Yeah. I think the cage is an unnecessary, um, it's a-

Ilia Topuria 24:52 Wow.

Joe Rogan 24:53 And I think it's an unnecessary element in fighting. Like, to push someone against something, or to be able to get up from something.

Ilia Topuria 25:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:02 I don't think it's necessary.

Ilia Topuria 25:04 And how would you show it?

Joe Rogan 25:04 I think they should be in, like, a basketball court, like a basketball court that's matted up.

Ilia Topuria 25:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:09 Have a big space. Have a warning track where you can't... if you go outside the warning track too many times, you, you could lose points.

Ilia Topuria 25:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:16 And, um, so when someone takes you down, you have to actually get up. I also think, at the end of a round, like say if you've got a guy mounted at the end of the round-

Ilia Topuria 25:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:25 ... you start the next round mounted on him.

Ilia Topuria 25:27 Of course.

Joe Rogan 25:28 Yeah, I don't think-

Ilia Topuria 25:28 Of course.

Joe Rogan 25:29 ... because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up?

Ilia Topuria 25:33 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 25:33 He never got up.

Ilia Topuria 25:35 Never got up.

Joe Rogan 25:35 You have to earn a get-up. You have to stand up by yourself.

Ilia Topuria 25:38 I love it. I, I never thought about that-

Joe Rogan 25:40 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 25:40 ... actually.

Joe Rogan 25:41 No, no standups ever, ever. No standups. Unless someone commits a foul. Like if someone commits a foul and you wanna stand them up and take a point away, that's fine, but if the guy's at the bottom and he commits a foul, like if a guy's at the bottom and he gouges someone's eyes on purpose-

Ilia Topuria 25:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 25:53 ... take a point away, put him right back in the same spot.

Ilia Topuria 25:57 Wow. That's great.

Joe Rogan 25:57 Because otherwise, like say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira, who's never taking anybody down-

Ilia Topuria 26:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:02 ... he's just gonna strike with you, right?

Ilia Topuria 26:04 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:04 Why would you let him back up again and have the advantage-

Ilia Topuria 26:08 You wouldn't.

Joe Rogan 26:08 ... of him standing up again?

Ilia Topuria 26:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:10 The beginning of the round, he starts standing up again. Now you gotta take him down again?

Ilia Topuria 26:13 But also, y- y- you don't think that it's, it's a part of the show also?

Joe Rogan 26:18 It is a part of the show, but I don't give a fuck about that.

Ilia Topuria 26:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:21 I'm a f- I mean, I'm a hardcore fan. I'm a purist.

Ilia Topuria 26:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 I think it should be about fighting, about elite fighting. And elite fighting is you gotta get up.

Ilia Topuria 26:30 Hm.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Like if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you and it's not entertaining, but if he can do that to you, that's tough shit. That's what he did.

Ilia Topuria 26:39 But y- you would change also the t- uh, the time range? Like, oh, you would leave at three rounds of five minutes-

Joe Rogan 26:44 I think-

Ilia Topuria 26:44 ... with one minute rest?

Joe Rogan 26:45 ... the good thing about five-minute rounds, the good thing about five-minute rounds is it's sustainable and guys can fight at a high pace. If you had like just one-

Ilia Topuria 26:55 15 minutes.

Joe Rogan 26:56 ... 15-minute round, guys would be exhausted. And the end of it would be sloppy. It wouldn't be the same. The pace would be much slower. It wouldn't be as good.

Ilia Topuria 27:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:04 So I think there's nothing wrong with rounds, but I think it's one fight. It's not five fights. So why does he stand up at the end of every round? I think if a guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like- d- tr- trapped in arm and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle, why would you... why does he get to stand up again?

Ilia Topuria 27:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:23 It doesn't make any sense.

Ilia Topuria 27:24 That's true.

Joe Rogan 27:25 Especially if he's a striker and you wasted all-

Ilia Topuria 27:27 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:27 ... that energy getting to the ground and you got so close to cinching up a submission, and then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again.

Ilia Topuria 27:33 And then clink, you have to stand up.

Joe Rogan 27:35 Yeah, and he didn't even earn it.

Ilia Topuria 27:35 Start again, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:36 Start him right back down there.

Ilia Topuria 27:37 Got you.

Joe Rogan 27:38 No cage. No standups. No standups ever. If everybody boos, tough shit. Go watch baseball. Go watch-

Ilia Topuria 27:45 That's true.

Joe Rogan 27:45 Go watch something else.

Ilia Topuria 27:46 (laughs) Would, would... you, you wouldn't like to see at some point the world championships in mixed martial arts? Like for example, let's say the seven best fighters from the United States in every weight class against seven best, best fighters from, I don't know, from China or from Russia.

Joe Rogan 28:06 Russia. Yeah. I would love that.

Ilia Topuria 28:07 The best flyweights against the best flyweight from the United States.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Sure.

Ilia Topuria 28:12 And you do that and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions. And if you win four weight divisions, that country won.

Joe Rogan 28:20 Hmm. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 28:21 That would be fun also.

Joe Rogan 28:22 That would be great. That's a great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I think that, that idea sounds really good. And also there is a bit of an issue, right, with the UFC being the premier organization for martial arts. The UFC is like if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion.

Ilia Topuria 28:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Like, you're a world champion.

Ilia Topuria 28:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:42 World champion. Someone can fight in the PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the PFL world champion." Everybody's like, "Right."

Ilia Topuria 28:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:48 Come on. Come on.

Ilia Topuria 28:49 Because at the end of the day-

Joe Rogan 28:49 Great fighters, but at the end of the day...

Ilia Topuria 28:52 You know that you have all the best fighters.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Right.

Ilia Topuria 28:54 The best collection of fighters in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 28:56 Yes. But I watch ONE FC and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there and I'm like, "Jesus Christ. These guys are good, man."

Ilia Topuria 29:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:05 "Some of these guys are good." And you know, they're calling them ONE, ONE FC world champions, I'm like, grr. I'd like to see 'em. I'd like to see 'em because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent and we've seen that before. Like some guys look like destroyers and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter and they get pieced up.

Ilia Topuria 29:26 What happens is that I think that in ONE Championship you... m- most of the time you're used to fighting with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who, who you're gonna face next. Maybe he's a wrestler.

Joe Rogan 29:38 Right.

Ilia Topuria 29:38 Maybe you're gonna fight Demian Maia-

Joe Rogan 29:40 Right.

Ilia Topuria 29:40 ... who wants to fight you on the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't fucking know.

Joe Rogan 29:45 Right.

Ilia Topuria 29:45 So you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything.

Joe Rogan 29:49 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 29:49 In ONE Championship, maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion.

Joe Rogan 29:55 Yeah, maybe. I mean, there are some good grapplers over there, but my point is I really wish there was no organizations.

Ilia Topuria 30:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:03 I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't th- Look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to the UFC, but I wish there was just only fighting.

Ilia Topuria 30:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:16 You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. In boxing... But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys 'cause they all have different promoters.

Ilia Topuria 30:24 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:25 And if they all have the same promoter, they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation, right? If they all have the same promoter and the same managers and-

Ilia Topuria 30:32 Y- y- you know something about soccer? No.

Joe Rogan 30:34 Yeah, I know a little bit about it.

Ilia Topuria 30:35 Like, how they do, like, the Champions League.

Joe Rogan 30:37 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 30:38 They have like... For example, let's say, uh, the Real Madrid, they have a team. That's why I would... What I would do is, like, I would create a team against another team. For example, I have Real Madrid. I've, I, I sign, like, the best seven fighters in the world, whoever I want in, in different weight classes. And you have, for example, Barcelona. You, you sign the seven best fighters in the world, around the world. You train them in one place, you do, like, all the strategy, strategy, and we meet each other. We, we do a competition like a Champions League.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Mm.

Ilia Topuria 31:10 And we do, like, the whole year calendar, and the best wins. At the end, we do, like, the finals and w- we give them the space to recover. W- we, we create, like, a competition between teams, not individual, um, people. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 31:25 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 31:26 So I would do something like that, maybe.

Joe Rogan 31:28 That's a great idea. But the problem is, I think guys are... Guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick.

Ilia Topuria 31:33 So, that's why in, in soccer, you have guys that in your position, you always have two or three guys.

Joe Rogan 31:39 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 31:39 That if you are injured, you, you have another guy-

Joe Rogan 31:42 Right.

Ilia Topuria 31:42 ... that can, can, can change you or switch you, you know?

Joe Rogan 31:44 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 31:45 Be- between the rounds, even. Mm, you are... In soccer, sometimes it happens. Some- someone gets injured in, in estadio, stadium.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 31:54 And they can switch them.

Joe Rogan 31:56 Yeah. That makes sense. But I mean, at the end of the day, like, imagine, say, if you get scheduled to fight Islam, and, uh, I- Islam gets injured and Arman Tsarukyan takes his place or something.

Ilia Topuria 32:08 Mm-hmm. But you are, uh...

Joe Rogan 32:09 The NBA 82-game grind is done, and now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs are here, and it's time for all the high-stakes drama, clutch moments, and jaw-dropping plays. I can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting, DraftKings Sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play-in games all the way through to the finals, now's your time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. All season long, DraftKings has been the go-to spot for NBA player props, and that doesn't stop now. Wanna make your playoff experience even more intense? Try placing a bet on your favorite player's performance. Ready to place your first bet? Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now. Lock in your bets, and let's make this playoff run unforgettable. Here's something special for first-timers. New DraftKings customers bet $5 to get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Make it a playoff run to remember with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code ROGAN, that's code ROGAN for new customers, to get $200 in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks. Only on DraftKings. The crown is yours.

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Ilia Topuria 33:53 Again, you are, like, focused on, uh, individ- individuals. You are not focused on teams.

Joe Rogan 33:59 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 33:59 Because no one's gonna care who is gonna fight in the... from the flyweight division, who is gonna be your representative from the flyweight division or f- from the lightweight division. I'm like, eh, maybe I bring you Islam that, uh, I have it in... I have him in, in, in my team. Or also, I could have Charles Oliveira in the same team, or maybe I bring Charles Oliveira because I think that against your team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Right. Right, right. They do that with grappling, like quintet. They do that. They have, like, grappling teams. Yeah. I mean, that would be interesting. I just... There's, there's certain fighters. Like, I was... My main regret in MMA that we never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC when he was in his prime.

Ilia Topuria 34:42 Ah. That's true.

Joe Rogan 34:43 If, if I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fedor-Cain Velasquez.

Ilia Topuria 34:50 Oh, that would be a great fight.

Joe Rogan 34:51 In their prime. Oh my God.

Ilia Topuria 34:53 Great fight.

Joe Rogan 34:53 In their prime, that would have been incredible.

Ilia Topuria 34:55 Great.

Joe Rogan 34:55 Incredible.

Ilia Topuria 34:56 Actually, Cain was an amazing fighter.

Joe Rogan 34:59 Bro, that guy had a gas tank that was superhuman.

Ilia Topuria 35:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:03 Su-... For a heavyweight, it didn't even make any sense. You would see guys just fall apart. They would just wilt.

Ilia Topuria 35:08 Pure boxing style also.

Joe Rogan 35:09 Pure boxing style, great wrestling, incredible chin, and just indomitable will.

Ilia Topuria 35:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Too tough for his own good, which is why he wound up... Like, towards the end of his career, he was just... His body had deteriorated so much.

Ilia Topuria 35:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:22 He had so many back injuries, neck injury, shoulder injury, knee injury. There was just-

Ilia Topuria 35:26 Actually, what's going on with him? He's, uh, he's in jail right now or he's not?

Joe Rogan 35:30 Yeah, he got sentenced. He got sentenced to five years, and the, the judge said this was the least amount he could sentence him. He didn't want to sentence him, but-

Ilia Topuria 35:37 Well, what happened to him? D- do you know that? No.

Joe Rogan 35:39 Yes. So, Cain's son was going to daycare, and there was a man who molested him at daycare. Cain found out about it, chased the man in his car, and shot at him. He tried to catch him in his car and shot at him. Cain gets arrested. Cain stayed in jail. The guy gets arrested, and he got out on bail. I don't know what's happening with the guy. I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what.

Ilia Topuria 36:05 Oh, crazy.

Joe Rogan 36:05 But this guy molested his son multiple times. I don't know how many times. But, uh, he did what every father would have done. You... The, the... If you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby. You don't understand. It's, it's... You would see red in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent. That fucking anger is... I mean, if there's ever a plea for temporary insanity...... that's, that's the plea. If there's ever a person who could justifiably say, "I was temporarily insane," it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy. (sighs)

Ilia Topuria 36:53 Wow. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:55 Everybody understands it, everybody understands it. He should have never gone to jail. He's not a threat to society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't be in prison.

Ilia Topuria 37:03 No.

Joe Rogan 37:03 And he already did three years. He was already in jail for three years.

Ilia Topuria 37:06 And he has been a great example for so many upcoming guys, like, for the new generation.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 37:12 I don't know why guys like him ha- ha- have to end up in the jail for something like that.

Joe Rogan 37:17 Exactly.

Ilia Topuria 37:18 He didn't robber anyone. He didn't-

Joe Rogan 37:20 Exactly.

Ilia Topuria 37:21 I don't know, crazy.

Joe Rogan 37:21 Exactly. It's, it's horrific. It's horrific. You know, I mean, I just don't understand it. It's, um... I mean, the judge's hands were tied. He had to make a sentence, and this is the l- I think the minimum amount. They were trying to give him 30 years. (sighs) Yeah, for attempted murder, 'cause he was just sh- shooting at this guy. And obviously, when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and, and kill a bystander.

Ilia Topuria 37:43 Of course.

Joe Rogan 37:43 You know, it's very dangerous. But also, the guy was in a murderous rage for a good reason, for a good reason.

Ilia Topuria 37:52 Of course.

Joe Rogan 37:52 And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off. That's my feeling.

Ilia Topuria 37:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:56 That's my feeling.

Ilia Topuria 37:57 That's true. (laughs) That's also true.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Yeah. A guy like that walking around who molests children should be dead. The- I- that's just my feeling. All this thought of... I mean, there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that they have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles. They, they, they call them minor-attracted persons. They wanna, like, make it a protected class and say it's, you know, it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex. Like, no, it's not.

Ilia Topuria 38:24 Aw.

Joe Rogan 38:24 No, it's not. You're victimizing children-

Ilia Topuria 38:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:26 ... the most vulnerable and protected people that we have.

Ilia Topuria 38:30 Of course. You can't, you can't even talk to the kids a- about something like that. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 38:35 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 38:35 About like... I, I heard so many crazy things about that topic, that... Let's-

Joe Rogan 38:41 I know.

Ilia Topuria 38:41 ... let's, let's leave this right there.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Let's, let's leave it right there, or we'll just get in trouble.

Ilia Topuria 38:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:45 (laughs) Yeah, I mean, kill them all. That's how I feel. Kill them all. Anybody wants to do that to children, there's no reason for them to exist. They... This, this I... I mean, for... Yeah. You're just gonna ruin-

Ilia Topuria 38:56 For sure.

Joe Rogan 38:56 ... lives. And not just their lives, but y- you're gonna ruin all the people whose lives they ruined, 'cause they're all fucked up now. You know, you, you, you, you, you kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby. It's just insane.

Ilia Topuria 39:11 Wow.

Joe Rogan 39:12 It's just fucking insane. So, that's-

Ilia Topuria 39:14 It is.

Joe Rogan 39:14 ... unfortunately, the story with Cain right now. And, you know, he was out for a while. Once they let him out, he was coaching at AKA, and, you know, he's a amazing coach and-

Ilia Topuria 39:24 We hope that they gonna, they gonna think it again and they gonna give him the freedom he deserves.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Yeah, I mean, I hope Trump pardons him. I mean, that's what I really hope.

Ilia Topuria 39:34 I hope so, too.

Joe Rogan 39:35 And Dana makes something happen with that. Maybe that's possible. I mean, that might be the best, best option. Um, but anyway, in his prime, uh, Cain Velasquez versus Fedor, that's my b- my biggest regret, a fight that we never got to see. 'Cause when Cain... When, when Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right? 'Cause they were huge in Japan in like 2001, 2002. They were filling stadiums in Japan when the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States. It really hadn't hit its peak until 2005.

Ilia Topuria 40:10 And why, uh, do you think that they never bring him to, to the UFC?

Joe Rogan 40:15 (clicks tongue) Well, they tried.

Ilia Topuria 40:16 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 40:16 Uh, but I gotta be careful how I say this. So, Fedor was controlled by, uh, some Russian people that were, uh, very, uh, rough men-

Ilia Topuria 40:29 Okay.

Joe Rogan 40:30 ... as it were, you know, uh, gangster-type characters. And, uh, they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC, but there were very unreasonable demands. Like, they wanted part of the promotion. They wanted-

Ilia Topuria 40:42 Ah.

Joe Rogan 40:42 ... to own a piece of everything. They wanted a lot, 'cause they knew that with Fedor, they had their golden ticket, and they wanted to play it out as much as possible.

Ilia Topuria 40:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 40:51 And negotiations were very intense and, uh, very, (clicks tongue) very confrontational. They got bad, where Dana had to up his security. It got, it got pretty-

Ilia Topuria 41:02 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 41:02 Yeah, it got heavy. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 41:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 41:03 These were dangerous people. These were dangerous people. It got-

Ilia Topuria 41:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:08 Yeah. I can tell you more off-air. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 41:11 Wow, I didn't know that story.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Yeah, I'll tell you more off-air. It got... You should talk to Dana about it. It got crazy.

Ilia Topuria 41:16 Wow.

Joe Rogan 41:17 Yeah. They're rough dudes.

Ilia Topuria 41:18 That's why.

Joe Rogan 41:19 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 41:19 Because I al- always thought, like, wha- why they don't bring that guy to the UFC? Because m- it's gonna be so fun for the, for the fans.

Joe Rogan 41:27 They wanted to co-promote. They wanted to be a part of the promotion. They wanted more than they deserved. They didn't just-

Ilia Topuria 41:33 Great.

Joe Rogan 41:33 ... want Fedor to get paid. They wanted to get paid. They wanted to m- they wanted to make a lot of money, and they-

Ilia Topuria 41:37 Gotcha.

Joe Rogan 41:37 ... wanted to get their hooks into the UFC.

Ilia Topuria 41:39 Gotcha, gotcha.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Yeah, Russian gangsters.

Ilia Topuria 41:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 41:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:44 (laughs) I get it from their perspective, too.

Ilia Topuria 41:47 Oh, it's crazy how th- how they rule, like, (laughs) everything.

Joe Rogan 41:49 Well, Pride was run by the Yakuza.

Ilia Topuria 41:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:52 You know, so it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters. They speak the same language. You know? It was, uh... They got along fine. But then when they came over to the UFC, the UFC was like, "That's not how-"

Ilia Topuria 42:03 "This is not the place."

Joe Rogan 42:03 "... we do it over here."

Ilia Topuria 42:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:05 "No, we'll give them a lot of money."

Ilia Topuria 42:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:06 "We want them to fight in the UFC," and it never took place, unfortunately.

Ilia Topuria 42:10 Wow.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 42:12 So crazy.

Joe Rogan 42:13 Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fedor's gonna fight bare-knuckle.

Ilia Topuria 42:17 Yeah, I, I heard something about that, that they, they-

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah, uh, I think Conor's promotion.

Ilia Topuria 42:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:21 I think it's Conor's promotion, that BKFD, or whatever is.

Ilia Topuria 42:23 Actually, do you think he's gonna come back, Conor?

Joe Rogan 42:26 If I had a bet? No.

Ilia Topuria 42:27 Yeah. No, I don't think he comes back.

Joe Rogan 42:29 Why? 'Cause he hasn't come back yet. And he could've. You know, if he really wanted to, he would've been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled, drug-tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight.... like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Chan- Chandler. I understand that, okay. Why should you fight on a broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a lot, like Conor?

Ilia Topuria 42:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:50 He relies on movement so much. Yeah, I get it. So heal that toe up. What's that? That's two months. Broken toes, two months.

Ilia Topuria 42:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:57 And so then you're back in camp, and then you, you reschedule a fight, and then you fight again.

Ilia Topuria 43:02 Of course.

Joe Rogan 43:02 But he didn't. Um, and also, partying, constant partying, all these law, legal problems that he has, you know, f- scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's, he's wealthy.

Ilia Topuria 43:19 He's done.

Joe Rogan 43:20 Maybe. I mean, the, what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40, and his body just doesn't have it anymore.

Ilia Topuria 43:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:29 You know?

Ilia Topuria 43:29 So right now, he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could fight him.

Joe Rogan 43:33 Right.

Ilia Topuria 43:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:34 Right. They could fight right now, yeah.

Ilia Topuria 43:36 They could fight because if they put him against Paddy, I think Paddy beats him easy now.

Joe Rogan 43:42 Uh, well...

Ilia Topuria 43:44 You don't think so?

Joe Rogan 43:44 A lot of years off, right? Lot of years off. You know, on the feet, Conor's a motherfucker, man.

Ilia Topuria 43:49 No, at the f- in, in the feet-

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 43:51 ... he's a motherfucker. I, I know that.

Joe Rogan 43:53 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 43:53 He can knock out like everyone.

Joe Rogan 43:55 If he's still the same guy.

Ilia Topuria 43:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:57 But the thing is, he's 36 now, you know?

Ilia Topuria 43:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:59 And if he's natural? Also, (sniffs) reality. Okay, when he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? 'Cause he's gotta do something to heal his leg quicker, so what is he gonna do? Well, you're gonna take steroids. So if you're gonna take steroids and you're already 34, ish, your endocrine system gets fucked up by taking steroids, where your body stops producing testosterone.

Ilia Topuria 44:22 Okay.

Joe Rogan 44:22 So I've had it explained to me by scientists before, and essentially, say if you take steroids for six months, you need at least six months before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again.

Ilia Topuria 44:36 Okay.

Joe Rogan 44:36 Some people think it's twice as long, so that would be a year, a year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels, if it does.

Ilia Topuria 44:47 If it does, or-

Joe Rogan 44:47 Depending, if it does.

Ilia Topuria 44:48 Y- you think that if someone puts steroids in his body, he, he never come, comes back as, uh, as he's, uh, uh, his normal body?

Joe Rogan 44:59 Vitor Belfort is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use as an example.

Ilia Topuria 45:03 But he took bunch of steroids.

Joe Rogan 45:06 He did. All the steroids. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 45:06 He, he took like a... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:10 (Laughs) Luke Rockhold said when he, when he was weighing in, when he fought him, he said, "This guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth." (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 45:16 Yeah, on his fucking... Exactly, bro. That, that was-

Joe Rogan 45:19 He was shredded.

Ilia Topuria 45:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:21 But if you go back to Vitor when he fought Anderson Silva, before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all.

Ilia Topuria 45:28 No, he looked old actually.

Joe Rogan 45:30 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 45:30 He looked like his body wa- was relaxed.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Soft.

Ilia Topuria 45:33 Yeah, like this.

Joe Rogan 45:33 'Cause Vitor... Yeah, so this is the- look at the difference.

Ilia Topuria 45:36 Yeah, wow.

Joe Rogan 45:37 Before USADA and after USADA. I mean, that is a crazy example.

Ilia Topuria 45:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:41 So when he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked soft and s- like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same. And that was just a couple years after test... They fucked up with the testosterone use exemption 'cause what they did was, they would test guys, and if you're low on testosterone, "Oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption." But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to. All you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night, and your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low. So you could go get drug... You, who has normal, healthy levels of testosterone-

Ilia Topuria 46:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:19 ... you could wreck your body on purpose then go get drug tested. And they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low testosterone. I'm gonna prescribe to you testosterone exemption." And so then you go and take testosterone and you become a fucking animal.

Ilia Topuria 46:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:33 And, and you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it.

Ilia Topuria 46:38 So y- you think that at this point, there are guys in the UFC that are take, uh, taking like testos- uh, steroids, let's say steroids?

Joe Rogan 46:45 I would imagine there's for sure someone-

Ilia Topuria 46:48 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 46:48 ... doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 46:50 Wow. I don't know-

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 46:51 ... because at, at this point, I feel that they are so strict with the-

Joe Rogan 46:54 They are.

Ilia Topuria 46:55 ... with the, they are so strict.

Joe Rogan 46:56 But there's a lot of guys that do their camps in faraway lands.

Ilia Topuria 47:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:00 And I think that like, people always used to joke around about Dagestan, you know? Like, try, try getting a U- a USADA guy into Dagestan, you know?

Ilia Topuria 47:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:09 (laughs) The moment he lands-

Ilia Topuria 47:10 They did, they did some-

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... everybody's gonna call everybody.

Ilia Topuria 47:12 ... some drug, drug test in, in, in Dagestan? They, they test, uh, Khabib, for example, in Dagestan? No.

Joe Rogan 47:19 I'm sure.

Ilia Topuria 47:19 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 47:19 I'm sure they must have.

Ilia Topuria 47:21 And what if someone lands from, from USADA-

Joe Rogan 47:23 Wasn't there an issue where some guys from USADA and Khabib's camp, they, they had like...

Ilia Topuria 47:29 They had some issues.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Some issue.

Ilia Topuria 47:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:31 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 47:31 They had some... I remember like-

Joe Rogan 47:32 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 47:32 ... something like that, but...

Joe Rogan 47:33 You go over there, like, and you know, you wanna get out, (laughs) you gotta be careful. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 47:38 Nah, you get out.

Joe Rogan 47:40 (Laughs) Yeah, but I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time, like say, like if you are in America and, you know, you live in Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all the time. They'll test you a bunch, you know?

Ilia Topuria 47:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:55 And there's some people that have been tested a bunch. They get tested a lot. And then some people that don't get tested as much. And if you're gonna go and do your camp in Thailand or you're gonna go y- do your, your camp in Dagestan or... It's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly.

Ilia Topuria 48:09 Yeah, but they can anyway.

Joe Rogan 48:10 They can.

Ilia Topuria 48:10 So you can trust on, on if they come or not.

Joe Rogan 48:15 But there's short-acting stuff. There's like, um, when, uh, Alex Rodriguez... Is that his... on A-Rod, right? Yeah, when he was fighting... or excuse me, when he was playing baseball rather, they were taking gummies, testosterone gummies.

Ilia Topuria 48:29 Okay.

Joe Rogan 48:29 And the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours, then it's out of your system.

Ilia Topuria 48:35 Wow.

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 48:36 I never heard that.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Yeah. There's certain stuff that you can take, like EPO, that's very short-lasting, very difficult to test but very short-lasting. And there's a-

Ilia Topuria 48:46 In my case-

Joe Rogan 48:47 (sighs)

Ilia Topuria 48:47 ... I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Right.

Ilia Topuria 48:50 I, I'm, I'm gonna feel like I'm cheating.

Joe Rogan 48:52 Right.

Ilia Topuria 48:52 I, I don't deserve the, the, the win because I'm cheating, I'm a cheater.

Joe Rogan 48:56 Right.

Ilia Topuria 48:56 I, I, I can have that thought, uh, that thought about myself. All the time I, when I walk inside the octagon, I feel that I didn't cheat, m- and I deserve to win, and that, that's why I'm gonna win. You know?

Joe Rogan 49:09 Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive, 'cause BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating.

Ilia Topuria 49:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:16 'Cause back then, it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh-ins. So at the weigh-ins, that's like an intelligence test.

Ilia Topuria 49:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Like, if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh-ins, you're gonna be clean. If you do it with a doctor-

Ilia Topuria 49:32 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:32 I know camps, I don't wanna say the names-

Ilia Topuria 49:34 No, no, don't say that.

Joe Rogan 49:35 ... but they had scientists working for the camps. And the scientists, these doctors would study guys' blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp, or by the time they got into weigh-ins. So when they were on the scale, they still had all the benefits of steroids, but they had no steroids in their system.

Ilia Topuria 49:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:53 And their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids.

Ilia Topuria 49:57 I know some cam- camps also that they used steroids.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 50:01 For sure.

Joe Rogan 50:02 But yeah, for me, like, you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong, because that's a so specific moment when you are in the backstage, you need your mind so badly, you need it more than your body sometimes. Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 50:19 Because, as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need this muscle as-

Joe Rogan 50:24 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 50:24 ... strong as possible, you know?

Joe Rogan 50:26 And if you know you cheated, that muscle's gonna feel bad.

Ilia Topuria 50:27 And if you know you're cheating-

Joe Rogan 50:29 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 50:29 ... that you are not in what you in reality are saying that you are-

Joe Rogan 50:34 Right. Right. Right.

Ilia Topuria 50:36 ... uh, that's a tough one.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 50:37 I don't wanna, I don't wanna, mmm, see myself in that situation, never.

Joe Rogan 50:42 That's a champion's mindset.

Ilia Topuria 50:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Yeah, that's a real champion's mindset. Some guys, they just wanna do anything to win. They wanna do anything to win. When it... And if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat. They'll... And they, they'll justify it by saying everybody cheats.

Ilia Topuria 50:55 Yeah, uh, (smacks lips) I'm a God believer, and, and m- my mindset is like of course I wanna win. I prepare myself to win. But if he destroys my plans, it's because maybe my plans could destroy me. So I don't wanna have anything because I wanna have it. If he decides it, if God decides to g- to give it to me, I accept it. I will do everything to get it, because I desire it from all my heart. And if he says that if I desire it, I have the faith, I will get it.

Joe Rogan 51:30 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 51:31 So this is-

Joe Rogan 51:32 And the reality is, if you give everything you have and you lose, you win a lesson.

Ilia Topuria 51:38 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:38 And you realize you're not at the level that you need to be.

Ilia Topuria 51:41 There's never a lose.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 51:42 Or you win or you learn.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Right.

Ilia Topuria 51:43 And lear- learning is also a winning.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Right. Where did you develop your mindset? D- have you g- got any mental coaching? Did you read books on psychology?

Ilia Topuria 51:53 Uh, I read a lot of books. I try to read at least, uh, 30 minutes a day, but it's every day. Every day. What you do and, and, and your daily habits, it, it what's m- m- what makes the difference, right? Because we can't decide our future, but we can decide our habits, and our habits decide our future.

Joe Rogan 52:13 Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. So like what kind of stuff do you read?

Ilia Topuria 52:17 Uh ... I read more like, um ... I l- I read a lot of books. I love reading books, uh, of se- self-development books, uh, m- also, how can I tell you and, and ... Yeah, this is the most of the books I, I, I read, self-development books. I, I read, uh, bio- biographies of, of the people that I like. For example, D- Donald Trump, Warren Buffett, I read that kind of people.

Joe Rogan 52:53 Businessmen?

Ilia Topuria 52:54 Yeah, I try to.

Joe Rogan 52:55 Yeah?

Ilia Topuria 52:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Why do you read businessmen's biographies?

Ilia Topuria 52:59 Because, uh, at the end of the day, right now I'm in sports, but at some point, I'm gonna retire. I'm gonna m- make a l- I have to make a living from, from something, right? Because I'm, I'm not gonna be fighting my wh- whole life and I don't want it even. So yeah. I wanna, I wanna prepare myself.

Joe Rogan 53:17 So-

Ilia Topuria 53:17 If you wanna have an extraordinary life, you have to be a extra- extraordinary person, right?

Joe Rogan 53:22 Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ilia Topuria 53:24 And I'm trying to, to become an extraordinary person. That's what I'm trying-

Joe Rogan 53:27 In all walks of life.

Ilia Topuria 53:28 In all walks of life.

Joe Rogan 53:29 Yeah. So do you have an idea of when you wanna retire?

Ilia Topuria 53:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:36 How old are you now?

Ilia Topuria 53:37 T- till I enjoy it, 28.

Joe Rogan 53:39 28?

Ilia Topuria 53:39 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know how many fights. Maybe, mm, till 32, 34.

Joe Rogan 53:45 Really?

Ilia Topuria 53:46 Yeah. I don't know. Till I enjoy. Right now, I'm enjoying. I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow.

Joe Rogan 53:52 So you'll take that road when it comes?

Ilia Topuria 53:55 What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 53:56 Uh, you'll f- when it, when that happens, when you no longer enjoy it, then you will go on a different path.

Ilia Topuria 54:03 So-

Joe Rogan 54:03 Then you will retire.

Ilia Topuria 54:04 I don't know. Right now, I, I, I wanna become a Lightweight World Champion. I wanna hold that belt too. So I don't know what's g-

Joe Rogan 54:12 (clears throat)

Ilia Topuria 54:12 ... what's gonna happen then. If I'm gonna keep motivated, um, uh, it's kind of difficult. This is a fight game. Fight game is so hard, so hard, because you have to go in and take someone's head off. And you can't, you can't be that soft guy, you know what I mean? Like, that kind guy. You have to be... you gotta have that testosterone up.

Joe Rogan 54:36 You gotta be vicious.

Ilia Topuria 54:37 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Yeah, you gotta be technical, you gotta be smart, but you also-

Ilia Topuria 54:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:40 ... have to be vicious.

Ilia Topuria 54:41 And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in- in- in my career. You know, at some point, maybe I will end up doing different things, maybe some businesses.

Joe Rogan 54:53 Mm.

Ilia Topuria 54:54 Right now I'm- I'm- I'm doing different things and I'm enjoying it also.

Joe Rogan 54:57 So, you're doing different things outside of fighting as well?

Ilia Topuria 54:59 Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now.

Joe Rogan 55:02 Oh, a MMA promotion?

Ilia Topuria 55:03 Yeah. A mm- MMA promotion.

Joe Rogan 55:04 What's it called?

Ilia Topuria 55:05 WO. WO. And the goal with WO is to- to... Because, as you mentioned-

Joe Rogan 55:10 When you say WO, how you-

Ilia Topuria 55:12 WO.

Joe Rogan 55:12 How do you spell that?

Ilia Topuria 55:13 Uh, Way of the Warrior.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Oh, wow. Okay.

Ilia Topuria 55:16 Yeah. So, from Spain to get to the UFC before was so difficult. I had to do so many crazy things to- to get to the UFC. But right now, we create WO and w- actually, we are in the UFC Fight Pass. Everyone can g- uh, get in- in- in that promotion fight. If you have the- the skills, if you are ready, someone's gonna see you and they're gonna sign you in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 55:41 A promoter's life is a hard life. That's a hard job.

Ilia Topuria 55:45 Yeah, you think so?

Joe Rogan 55:46 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 55:46 It's very entertaining, to be honest.

Joe Rogan 55:47 When I talked to Dana... At least promoting for the UFC. Like, I was talking to him this weekend, and he was telling me all the issues that they're having and... With different fights that jo- I was ask- I was asking him some questions, like, "What are you doing with this? What are you doing with that?" And he starts telling me, "Oh, this guy wants that. This is what I want. Fight this guy."

Ilia Topuria 56:02 Did he tell you something about me?

Joe Rogan 56:04 Maybe. Maybe a little bit.

Ilia Topuria 56:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:06 If he did, I can't tell ya.

Ilia Topuria 56:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:08 I did ask who you get to fight, and they said, "We're working on things." But, uh, he was actually specifically talking about, um, what happens if Belal wins, you know, because, uh, Islam and Belal have been... They've been talking about Islam fighting Belal.

Ilia Topuria 56:23 That's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 56:25 I would like that to happen if Belal wins, but that's an if. Jack Dillamantellana is a bad motherfucker. He's good, man.

Ilia Topuria 56:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:32 That guy's good.

Ilia Topuria 56:33 Even if he wins, they gonna make that fight happen-

Joe Rogan 56:36 Hm.

Ilia Topuria 56:36 ... against Islam.

Joe Rogan 56:37 You think so?

Ilia Topuria 56:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:40 Well, if Ja- Jack Dillamantellana wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion. And, you know, maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The problem with Islam fighting Belal is that they trained together. And I think, you know, they'd kinda said that way ever.

Ilia Topuria 56:53 How many guys w- we- w- we see fight- fighting between each other that they used to train before?

Joe Rogan 56:59 Oh, I agree. I mean, I think they should fight.

Ilia Topuria 57:02 Yeah, they should fight. Of course.

Joe Rogan 57:03 I definitely think they should fight. I think Khabib doesn't like that idea.

Ilia Topuria 57:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:10 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 57:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:12 (laughs) That's how I feel. But it's not just that. I mean, Dana's always putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it, they have 500 fighters on the w- on... In the roster at least and, you know, there's all these things that are happening and, like... Like, the Arman Tsarukyan thing, like, his back hurts the day of the fight. Wow. He's gotta pull out. Like, this is fucking crazy. This is-

Ilia Topuria 57:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:34 You know what I mean? Like, imagine that. You have this whole promotion based around this, uh, elite fighter who's f- who fought Islam in his first fight, short notice. They- they go to a very close decision, a very close fight. Arman's gotten a lot better, Islam's gotten a lot better. Then they're gonna fight again and then the day of, he hurts his back. It's crazy.

Ilia Topuria 57:53 It happens, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 57:54 Very crazy.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 57:55 But if you will be in the Dana's place, who would be my next opponent?

Joe Rogan 58:00 Islam. 100%. 100%.

Ilia Topuria 58:03 I wish they did that fight.

Joe Rogan 58:04 I tried to tell him that this weekend (laughs) .

Ilia Topuria 58:06 That would be a great fight.

Joe Rogan 58:07 Yeah, it's the... That's the fight to make, uh, because you have a world champion versus a world champion. Like, if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you. It's- it's simple.

Ilia Topuria 58:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:19 It's simple. You knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You knocked out, uh, Alexander Volkanovski, one of the greatest of all time. It's simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the fight. You know, he doesn't wanna fight 45 anymore, he wants to fight 55 (snaps fingers) , world title shot. And, uh, nobody would argue with that. That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it.

Ilia Topuria 58:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:39 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 58:39 Hopefully they- they make that fight happen.

Joe Rogan 58:42 Yeah, hopefully. I don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage, I'd... (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 58:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:47 I'd get rid of stand-ups.

Ilia Topuria 58:48 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:48 I'd get rid... I'd fuck everything up for them. I would make it, uh, less marketable. Probably.

Ilia Topuria 58:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:54 I would.

Ilia Topuria 58:55 Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's gonna be-

Joe Rogan 58:58 That's a good fight too.

Ilia Topuria 58:59 ... a good one also.

Joe Rogan 58:59 That's a great fight too.

Ilia Topuria 59:00 It's a great fight.

Joe Rogan 59:00 That's a great fight too. There's a lot of guys in that division.

Ilia Topuria 59:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:03 You know? There's- there's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155?

Ilia Topuria 59:11 I would like to fight with- with Islam, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 59:15 I w- I would like to fight him.

Joe Rogan 59:16 But if they don't give you that fight, if they give you, like, a number one contender fight, when would you like to fight next?

Ilia Topuria 59:21 I- I- I- I wouldn't fight for a number one contender fight.

Joe Rogan 59:24 Really?

Ilia Topuria 59:24 No.

Joe Rogan 59:24 You only wanna fight for the title?

Ilia Topuria 59:25 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 59:26 Really? Okay.

Ilia Topuria 59:28 Of course.

Joe Rogan 59:29 No, I understand. That makes sense to me. Look, also, it's the most marketable fight. Everybody else has lost to him, right?

Ilia Topuria 59:35 I don't care if Islam decides that he doesn't wanna fight me. I don't care. I sit still, you're gonna have to fight me, okay? You say that you are the world champion, you're gonna keep dominating the- the division, all that, I'm here. You c- you- you can't keep avoiding me all the time.

Joe Rogan 59:51 So, you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else?

Ilia Topuria 59:54 I don't think that they gonna do that.

Joe Rogan 59:56 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 59:56 I don't think they- they would put me on a sideline, because they asked me to... I- I vacate the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again, but I get the promise that I would fight for the title, mm, m- in my next fight.

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:12 So, m- how much time y- you will stop me and from the fighting?

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 So, they did give you a promise that your next... When you vacated the belt that your next fight would be for the title?

Ilia Topuria 1:00:22 Of course, if they gave that- that chance to everyone, why- why not to me?

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:25 They g- gave it to Henry Cejudo.

Joe Rogan 1:00:28 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:28 They gave it to Conor McGregor, they gave it to Georges St-Pierre.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:30 They gave it to- to Jones. They gave it to everyone.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Right. Yup.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:33 And I proved that I deserve that shot, as you said. I- I n- knock out, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 ... two of the all-time greats.

Ilia Topuria 1:00:40 Two of, uh, two of, um, of the all-time greats. To the greats, Volkan, who wa- who was, like, dominating everyone in, in 145 division, and Max Holloway. H- (gasps) great fighters, bo- both of them.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gaethje, which is, like, the greatest victory of his career. Yeah, to knock him out after that?

Ilia Topuria 1:01:00 And no one did it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't get to make the rules.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:07 And the last fight he had was in 155-

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Right.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:10 ... against Justin Gaethje-

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:11 ... who also fo- fought for the title.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 Yep.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:15 So.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Yeah. And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you. If you look at it-

Ilia Topuria 1:01:22 Who else?

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 ... like, he's kind of cleaned out the division. There's no re-

Ilia Topuria 1:01:24 Who else?

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 No one else. I mean, Arman's gotta build himself back up.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 He- he's not gonna get a, a title shot.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:30 I would put Justin Gaethje against Paddy Pimblett, me against Islam. Once I pass him, I get the title, and you, you, you put me against Paddy-

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Ooh.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:43 ... because I think that he, he's gonna- he's gonna-

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 You think Paddy's gonna beat Justin Gaethje?

Ilia Topuria 1:01:46 Easy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Wow.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:48 Easy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Really easy?

Ilia Topuria 1:01:49 Yeah, easy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Really easy?

Ilia Topuria 1:01:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Wow. That's a crazy thing to say because Justin Gaethje's a fucking animal.

Ilia Topuria 1:01:57 Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple, and Paddy knows that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 But he's a Division I wrestler. He knows how to grapple. You don't think you he knows how to grapp- he just chooses not to.

Ilia Topuria 1:02:06 I don't, I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 He chooses to stand and, and fight.

Ilia Topuria 1:02:08 I don't think so. Did you ever saw him submitting someone?

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people. He likes to bang it out and fight. He used to fight at a very-

Ilia Topuria 1:02:21 What everyone likes is to dominate people and, and to win as soon as possible. If you had the ability to submit someone as soon as you can, you would do it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Mm. I think that's your mindset. I think Justin Gaethje's mindset is to be the most violent person alive.

Ilia Topuria 1:02:37 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career, because he took unnecessary chances, and he fought recklessly. Then, as he adjusted l- later in his career, he fought more intelligently. He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it. He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights, and then he started winning and beating guys in that, you know, like, where he might have, like, thrown himself into wars before. Like, the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos, just a war, just... The first fight in the UFC, just throws himself into chaos.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:09 I remember that fight.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Yeah, chaos.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 He would just throw... He would just try to see... He was like Michael Chandler, but a better fighter, you know? Just more successful at it, at a high level.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:22 So you pick Justin Gaethje over Pa- Paddy?

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 I don't say that. Um, I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him. Although he's a fucking animal, and the guy-

Ilia Topuria 1:03:35 And how, how old is Justin Gaethje?

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Justin's probably 35.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:38 3-

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 How, how old is Justin?

Ilia Topuria 1:03:39 ... 5, 36.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 36, turns 37 in November.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 That's when it starts to slip away. If you're natural, af- everything after 35... Like, this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander Volkovskis-

Ilia Topuria 1:03:49 And I don't think that he's the type of guy that takes care of his body all the time, and he's, like, very strict-

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 Hm.

Ilia Topuria 1:03:57 ... with his health. I think he slept more at, at day than at night.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Oh, you think so?

Ilia Topuria 1:04:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 Did he party?

Ilia Topuria 1:04:05 (laughs) I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 I don't know.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:08 They put the, the camera on him, uh, on the last pay-per-view, and he looked like he was so high. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:04:14 Like this, uh...

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 High, I'm not worried about.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:16 High. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 What I'm worried about is drunk, 'cause high doesn't give you a hangover. High doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your body. If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign. That's a bad sign. That, that... Because you're not just not training, you're deteriorating your body, you know? If Justin Gaethje's just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that. Um, it's not the best for focus.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:39 Yeah, he, he doesn't seems to be that guy that drinks a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 No.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:42 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 I don't think so. I don't think so.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:44 Hm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Cocaine is the worst.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:46 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 When you hear a guy's doing coke, that's the worst. That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything.

Ilia Topuria 1:04:51 I never ever saw a cocaine in my life.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Me neither. I never done, never done cocaine either. I, when I was a kid, I had a, a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine and I got to see it up close.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 I was like, "Fuck that stuff."

Ilia Topuria 1:05:03 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 That's a scary one for fighters too, because the thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is exciting to people who love, like, exciting things. Like, there's something about fighters who are adrenaline junkies that like to be pumped up and ... Yeah. Conor-

Ilia Topuria 1:05:17 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 ... seems to enjoy it, which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:22 Hm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 But if he does come back, it's gotta be now, you know? Again, at 36 years old now, Paddy Pimblett. That's the fight. It'll be big.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:31 That's gonna be a, a, a big fight. Big.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Big, big fight.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 But I don't even think Conor's in the drug testing pool anymore.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:40 No?

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 I don't think so.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:42 You don't think so?

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 I don't believe so. I don't believe so.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:44 Because he-

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Let me Google that, find out if he's in a drug... I think he pulled out of the drug testing pool.

Ilia Topuria 1:05:46 I think he, he's gonna come back. He's g-

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 You think so?

Ilia Topuria 1:05:49 Yeah. If they give the, the opportunity to, to, I don't know, to, to guys like, I don't know, uh, 40 years old like Arlovski, uh, y- y- you can have so many names that they fought at four years, uh, um, uh, 40 years, uh, age. Why not Conor?

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 I know that you want a world title fight at 155-

Ilia Topuria 1:06:09 At some point-

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 ... but would you make an exception for a Conor McGregor fight in 155?

Ilia Topuria 1:06:14 But right now?

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Right now.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:15 No.

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 No?

Ilia Topuria 1:06:17 No.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 Good for you.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:18 A- do you think it's gonna be excited if I beat Islam and then I give the, the, the chance to Conor?

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 No, I mean, like, right now, before Islam. Like, if the, the UFC calls you up and says, "I know you want a world title fight. We guarantee you a world title fight after this."

Ilia Topuria 1:06:31 Actually, we had that talks a little bit.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 Really?

Ilia Topuria 1:06:34 Yeah, but... Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 What was that t- what was that talk? Tell me what that talk was like.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:37 No, no, no, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Come on, come on, come on. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:06:41 No. The... I did this one-

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:06:42 ... and I'm gonna get some calls.

Joe Rogan 1:06:44 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:06:44 That... You know how the UFC is. They are, like, very specific.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Yeah, yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:47 Don't say anything-

Joe Rogan 1:06:49 Right. Too late.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:49 ... to no one.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Well, no one's listening. You can tell everybody.

Ilia Topuria 1:06:52 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:06:55 Only couple of million of people is listening.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Whatever!

Ilia Topuria 1:06:58 Yeah. Whatever.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Yeah. No one's gonna notice.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 It'll slip right by.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:01 S- yeah, if they offer me a fight against Conor right now...... we'll see. Why not?

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Why not?

Ilia Topuria 1:07:07 Why not? One, I wouldn't say no.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Just for the numbers.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:11 I wouldn't say no.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Just for the numbers.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Get a cut of that pay-per-view-

Ilia Topuria 1:07:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 ... and it hits two million buys.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 Woo!

Ilia Topuria 1:07:15 Why not? Why not?

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 That's the thing about Conor, is like still-

Ilia Topuria 1:07:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 ... even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now, he's still the, he's the golden goose.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:22 Of course he is.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah. It's just crazy.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:24 That's something that you can't take away from him.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 Kind of amazing, you know? That still, he still guarantees that many eyeballs will go to see him, you know? It just-

Ilia Topuria 1:07:34 Uh, hm, that would be a, a great one. But what excites me more is the fight with Paddy.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Really?

Ilia Topuria 1:07:40 Yeah, that fight excites me even more. And if they could put that fight in Spain-

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 (sighs)

Ilia Topuria 1:07:47 ... in the Bernabeu Stadium.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Ooh.

Ilia Topuria 1:07:51 I, I know that Dana doesn't like to, to, to put the events in the stadium. But th- that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the, the roof.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Oh, okay.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:01 Yeah. And it's prepared-

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 How many?

Ilia Topuria 1:08:03 ... for that kind of...

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 How many people?

Ilia Topuria 1:08:05 80,000.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 (exhales)

Ilia Topuria 1:08:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 You'd get 80,000 in Spain easy too.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:10 Yeah, no problem.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 If you're fighting in Spain.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:12 No problem.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Oh my God, that would be insane.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:14 Ins-

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 I'm gonna have to go to Spain for that.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:16 ... ins- and a lot of people could travel from England to Spain.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:21 And that happens very often.

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 But if they do it in Spain, it's gotta be on Spain time. They can't do that shit that they did when Leon Edwards fought.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:31 It has to be in Spain time, but I think that then with the n- like, the negotiations they, they are having with ESPN and-

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:41 ... I don't know in which platform they are gonna put the UFC events, they gonna ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time-

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 For Europe?

Ilia Topuria 1:08:53 ... y- Europe prime time.

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Yeah, Europe prime time.

Ilia Topuria 1:08:54 Europe prime time.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Listen, Europe time- prime, prime time is fine, because it's in the afternoon in America. That's fine. So the fight's at 1:00 in the afternoon, you, people watch football games, a fire-

Ilia Topuria 1:09:05 Eu-

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 100 million people watch a football game at 1:00.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:06 Europe still has to be a virgin, uh, market. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:11 You, you got 500 million people in Europe. It's more than United States even.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 Right, right.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:17 So-

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 And if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:20 Everybody has Netflix.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 That might happen.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:23 That's why.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 They're in negotiation right now, I'm sure.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:25 That will be a massive one (exhales) in Spain.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 In Spain, oh my God.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:30 Agai- against that, that pimple.

Joe Rogan 1:09:32 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:09:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 What happened with you two? 'Cause I saw the video where you guys are yelling at each other, was it in a hotel or something?

Ilia Topuria 1:09:40 Yeah, he said something about Georgia.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 Oh, he said something about your country?

Ilia Topuria 1:09:45 Yeah, he-

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 What'd he say?

Ilia Topuria 1:09:46 He said, like, "Now I understand wh- why the, uh, why the Russians are, are, um, bombing Georgia," or something, like putting bombs in Georgia.

Joe Rogan 1:09:54 Whoa.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:56 And I'm like, "Bro." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Whoa.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:57 Don't joke with that.

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 Yeah, it's a fucked up thing to joke about.

Ilia Topuria 1:09:59 You can joke about me, say whatever you wanna say about me, whatever, "He's a mushroom, he is this, he is that, da, da, da." Don't talk about war, because you don't know how is it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:11 Right. That's a crazy thing to say.

Ilia Topuria 1:10:14 Yeah. Don't say that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Yeah. So, that was the beginning of it. Just outta nowhere he said that?

Ilia Topuria 1:10:20 He said that on Twitter.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 Oh, wow.

Ilia Topuria 1:10:24 He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was too high.

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:10:28 Too drunk. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Tu- he was talking shit, you know what I mean? He gets people to pay attention. He's really good at getting people to pay attention, you know?

Ilia Topuria 1:10:36 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 He's really good at that. I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star.

Ilia Topuria 1:10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 Like that kind of a star, where the whole world's watching.

Ilia Topuria 1:10:44 He has that weird personality.

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 Yes.

Ilia Topuria 1:10:46 Yeah, he has that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 Well, he's very disarming, 'cause people, they see... I talked about this in the last pay-per-view, I th- I said it's a very sneaky trick. Because guys like you, they look at you, the way you carry yourself, the way you com- that's a fighter. Like, you look at, that guy's a dangerous motherfucker. But when you see Paddy, he's dancing like this, his hair is flopping around-

Ilia Topuria 1:11:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 ... like he's in the Beatles, you know?

Ilia Topuria 1:11:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 He's like, he seems silly, but then he fucks people up. And so I think people get confused.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:09 Yeah, but he fucks people up, like Michael Chandler.

Joe Rogan 1:11:14 Right.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:14 But when he, he, he faced a real fight, who, who did he face?

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 Well, he hasn't faced anyone-

Ilia Topuria 1:11:19 Anyone.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 ... that good yet, but-

Ilia Topuria 1:11:20 Like, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 ... he fucked up Michael Chandler-

Ilia Topuria 1:11:22 It doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 1:11:22 ... better than Charles Oliveira did.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:24 It does, and Charles Oliveira even... This what, what I was telling you before, like when you got 10 losses in your record-

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:32 ... that's not one, two, three, four, five, six, se- that's 10.

Joe Rogan 1:11:36 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:36 Like, y- y- when you walking with a guy that has 10 losses, the level of confidence, it's completely different. It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that it's undefeated.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 Right.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:49 He's a dangerous guy, in the striking, in the ground game, everywhere you, you look at him, he's a dangerous guy. He never tastes the lose.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:11:57 That's a different mentality. You gotta, you're gonna have to kill him to give up. N- he's not gonna even give up. You're gonna have to kill him. In the case of Charles, if he finds some adversity, he's gonna go to the, to, to, to the ground, he's gonna sit, and he's gonna be waiting, like, till you, you, you end of the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 Mm-hmm.

Ilia Topuria 1:12:17 This what I think, this what I feel, this what I see.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 Well, that was certainly the case early in his career. I think things changed with him when he had a child. Um, then he went on that run and became a champion. And, like, when he beat Justin Gaethje, when he beat all those guys, he was, he was pretty elite, man. He was really fucking good. When he beat Chandler, when Chandler had beat him up in that first round, he came back in the second round and fucked him up.

Ilia Topuria 1:12:41 Who?

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Chandler. Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:12:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:45 I know what you're saying. I get it. 'Cause, uh, Conor's been tested 11 times last year, five the year before, and none this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This year- He w- he was tested this year? No. No. None this year.

Ilia Topuria 1:12:57 None this year.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 That's what I'm saying. I'm- 11 times last year. Yeah, I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore. I don't know.I don't know. Uh, you know, I've heard no plans, you know. The UFC would tell me. I would say, "What's going on with Conor?" And I don't even bring it up anymore. It's, uh-

Ilia Topuria 1:13:18 I think with him it's going to happen, like, instantly if something happens.

Joe Rogan 1:13:22 Well, that's crazy. I mean, if he's gonna prepare, he needs, like, a real long camp to really get his body back to fighting shape. Like, real fighting shape. And he's got to remember, you know, what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Poirier and wasn't properly prepared.

Ilia Topuria 1:13:37 And it depends who he's gonna face.

Joe Rogan 1:13:38 Right.

Ilia Topuria 1:13:38 Because if you put him against, against me, he needs to die and be burn again. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:47 (laughs) Yeah, I hear you. (laughs)

Ilia Topuria 1:13:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:55 Yeah. If y- when you, when you think about, like, your division when you were, um, the, the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would've wanted when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that you would've wanted at 145?

Ilia Topuria 1:14:08 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:14:09 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:10 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:14:11 My God.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:11 For sure. He was a dangerous guy in 145.

Joe Rogan 1:14:15 He was so big.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:16 He was big, dangerous.

Joe Rogan 1:14:18 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:18 He had the knockout power.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 Smart.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:21 Smart. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:22 Yeah. One-shot knockout power.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:25 Yeah.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:25 He, he had that.

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 Yeah, but when he would make 145, I remember, uh, that was back when the weigh-ins were literally right there. You'd weigh a guy in and then they'd, they would cheer in front of the crowd. Now, the weigh-ins are early and it's a ceremonial weigh-in. So when Conor would weigh in, he would look like death. Death.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 See if you can find the video of the weigh-ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:52 He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean for six months.

Ilia Topuria 1:14:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:58 Like, look at him. Look at his face.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:00 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:15:00 Look at his face. Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg. Click that one with Mike Goldberg.

Narrator 1:15:05 It's right here?

Joe Rogan 1:15:06 Yeah, click on that. My God. Look how fucking skinny he looks. Look at his face. His cheekbones.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:13 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 He looks like he just got out of, like, some Russian prison. Like ...

Ilia Topuria 1:15:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:15:18 You know what I mean?

Ilia Topuria 1:15:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:19 Bro, that one on the right is insane.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:21 He looks ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:22 It's fucking insane.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:23 ... fucked with, with, with muscles. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:25 That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:30 I think he, he, w- he walks around in 185.

Joe Rogan 1:15:33 Whoo ... so he lost 40 pounds before he fought? That's crazy.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:39 He fought also at, uh, at the welterweight division, right?

Joe Rogan 1:15:41 Yes. He fought, uh ... Well, he fought Donald Cerrone, who is really not a welterweight either. He was a 155-pounder.

Ilia Topuria 1:15:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:15:48 You know, but he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back. Like, when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight. And Chandler was like, "Okay." Like, but, you know, part of me wonders, like, whether he was ever really going