JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

1. 0:00 – 1:25

   Moving to Lightweight: walking weight, brutal cuts, and why 145 stopped being fun

   1. ITIlia Topuria0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, well, my man. What's happening? Pleasure.

   3. ITIlia Topuria0:15

      No, please, my pleasure-

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      My pleasure.

   5. ITIlia Topuria0:16

      ... thank you very much for having me here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      My honor. I'm, uh, I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm ve- very excited about your journey into the lightweight division.

   7. ITIlia Topuria0:26

      Something that's, I feel very excited also about that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      What are you walking around at? Like what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?

   9. ITIlia Topuria0:33

      Hmm, I'm go- I'm gonna tell you in kilos.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Okay.

   11. ITIlia Topuria0:36

       I walk around 80, 82. That's-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       What is that, Jamie, like 160, 170?

   13. NANarrator0:42

       175.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       175?

   15. ITIlia Topuria0:43

       180.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       180?

   17. ITIlia Topuria0:44

       Most closely, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight, 35 pounds?

   19. ITIlia Topuria0:47

       25, 30 pounds, like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Oof.

   21. ITIlia Topuria0:49

       Yeah, that's a lot.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Hard.

   23. ITIlia Topuria0:51

       That was the hardest part-

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Yeah.

   25. ITIlia Topuria0:52

       ... of my train- of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple fights that, that I had, 'cause it's like I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in the fight game, you know?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ITIlia Topuria1:06

       And it was taking a lot of time and energy from me, and I'm like my dream is to, to become a world champion. I want to end up this, this chapter that I have, that I started in 145, and now it's time to, to really enjoy it, and I'm very excited about that. I already have one fight in 155.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Jai Herbert.

   29. ITIlia Topuria1:25

       Jai Herbert.

2. 1:25 – 4:43

   Fixing weight cutting: more divisions, limits, and safety concerns

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:25

      Yeah. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. It doesn't make any sense.

   2. ITIlia Topuria1:32

      Why does Logan do that?

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:32

      I don't... It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do. It's like you're, you know, I mean if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right? So it's crazy that you're the 145-pound champion but you're 180-pound man. It's kind of nuts.

   4. ITIlia Topuria1:47

      Yeah, and, but, but at the same time if you go to the next weight class, you are playing with a disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      Mm-hmm.

   6. ITIlia Topuria1:56

      So if you don't do that, at the end of the day you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:01

      Yeah, like Islam. Islam Makhachev is huge. I mean, that guy, how he makes 155 is... I don't understand it. Every time I stand next to him, like-

   8. ITIlia Topuria2:10

      And, and-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:10

      ... how are you 155?

   10. ITIlia Topuria2:11

       How much do you think he, he walks around?

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       He's got to be 190-ish, in the 190 range.

   12. ITIlia Topuria2:16

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       He's got to be. That's what he looks like to me.

   14. ITIlia Topuria2:18

       I never saw him in person.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big. I mean, he's, he's not a small g- he's not 155-pound man. It's just so silly. The whole thing is just, it's, it's an, it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes. I, I've talked to Dana about this. I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC.

   16. ITIlia Topuria2:41

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:42

       I said the first thing you should do is get rid of this. Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes, you know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85, and then 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps are too big. 20 pounds is nuts.

   18. ITIlia Topuria2:57

       Yeah. I would do something with the, with the drug test. Like if I go to your home to, to, to make the drug test, I put you in, in, in the scale, if you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the, in the, in the weight- next weight class. Just to give you an, an example, for example, if you're fighting at 100 kilograms, I'm, I'm gonna say-

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       Okay.

   20. ITIlia Topuria3:18

       ... in kilograms, and I go to your house, I, I do the, the drug test, I put you in the scale, and you weigh this, 110 kilograms, I will force you to go to the next weight class.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Yeah. Th- I think that's realistic. Th- that makes sense. And I think that they should have more weight classes 'cause the weight class gaps are just too large.

   22. ITIlia Topuria3:36

       Oh, maybe that's a option also.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       Yeah. The, I mean, the, at the lower weight classes it's 10 pounds, which seems reasonable, but really at the lower weight classes, you know, when you're li- like 125 and 135, it could easily be five pounds.

   24. ITIlia Topuria3:49

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Five pounds is reasonable. But Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 12, 15, 20 weight classes like boxing has. He wants it to be like the UFC has now.

   26. ITIlia Topuria4:00

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       But it's not enough. There's just not enough.

   28. ITIlia Topuria4:02

       I don't really know the real reason behind that, but I would love to talk to Dana and ask him this, th- this question also because it's kind of dangerous also-

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       Yes.

   30. ITIlia Topuria4:10

       ... for the guys, and m- many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they gonna make the weight.
3. 4:43 – 7:22

   Extreme examples and the psychology of cutting: Pereira, Rumble, and ‘you become a different person’

   1. ITIlia Topuria4:43

      But at the same time, the weight cut takes something out from you that's crazy. It's like putting a dog inside a room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room with f- full of food.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:59

      (laughs)

   3. ITIlia Topuria4:59

      It's like the same thing, you know? When I'm cutting the weight, I'm li- I'm a different person.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:03

      Mm.

   5. ITIlia Topuria5:03

      I f- I feel that I'm like... My mind goes different, my thought process is different, everything is so different at, at that moment. I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:15

      Yeah, more focused-

   7. ITIlia Topuria5:16

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:16

      ... dialed in.

   9. ITIlia Topuria5:17

      More f- Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       Dominick Cruz says it's a good thing. He says, uh, he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in. He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fight.

   11. ITIlia Topuria5:25

       How much he cuts?

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       I don't think he cuts that much.

   13. ITIlia Topuria5:28

       That's why-

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       He's what, 35? (laughs)

   15. ITIlia Topuria5:30

       (laughs) That's why he likes it. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       (laughs) Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it.

   17. ITIlia Topuria5:34

       In game.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       You know, 'cause when he was fighting at 85-

   19. ITIlia Topuria5:36

       Wow.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:36

       ... he was weighing in-

   21. ITIlia Topuria5:37

       Wow.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       ... at 85 and then fighting in the sca- in a cage at 225, 226, which is crazy.

   23. ITIlia Topuria5:44

       I don't know how, how that guy was making 1- 185.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       I don't know.

   25. ITIlia Topuria5:47

       That's crazy, because he's huge and he's so tall.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Well how about Dricus du Plessis? How the fuck is he 185? That guy is huge.

   27. ITIlia Topuria5:55

       Yeah, that guy is huge also.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       He's a tank. There's a lot of these guys, like... But it's, it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185-pound man but he's not. Dricus is probably, when he gets into the cage, he's well into the 220s.

   29. ITIlia Topuria6:09

       Exactly.

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:09

       He's a big guy.
4. 7:22 – 11:01

   Topuria’s origin story: judo at 4, Georgia wrestling, Spain move, and discovering MMA by accident

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:22

      (laughs) How old were you when you first started fighting?

   2. ITIlia Topuria7:25

      L- In MMA, you're asking? Or, or in, uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:27

      Well, ult- When did you first start martial arts?

   4. ITIlia Topuria7:31

      With four years old, my, my dad put me with my brother in, in judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept practicing with the Greco Ro- with the Greco-Roman wrestling, and then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old. And completely by chance, we find a gym and we started training the, the MMA, the mixed martial arts.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:54

      Totally by chance?

   6. ITIlia Topuria7:56

      Totally by chance.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:57

      Wow. So were you a, a mixed martial arts fan at all?

   8. ITIlia Topuria8:01

      I didn't know anything about the mixed martial arts. I didn't know anyth- anything about the BJJ, the ground game, any fucking thing.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:07

      Wow.

   10. ITIlia Topuria8:07

       So we went to j- to Spain and we wanted to keep w- with the same discipline as we, we were doing in Georgia with the Greco-Roman wrestling, but they don't have the culture of, of that sport. So we were a little bit sad, you know, because we wanted that sport. My brother was really, really good on that. So my mo- mom was, uh, working and he saw a man with the cauliflower ears. He went to ... she went to, to him and she asked him like, uh, "What you doing? Because my kids want to, to do wrestling. Do you train in, in some gym or, or something?" And he said, "No, I'm doing the BJJ. Bring your kids and I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you the gym." She came to home and my dad and, and my mom, sh- and they started to convince us like, "There's a gym, they are practicing like jiu-jitsu, uh, MMA, all the sports." And, um, I was like, "But what the fuck is this? I don't know what's this."

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:06

       (laughs)

   12. ITIlia Topuria9:06

       And my dad start- started to show me the videos of the Gracies. He, he, he told me like, "This, uh, one of the best sports in the world right now. You are gonna guys love it." This and that. And at that day, we went to the gym and I felt in love since the first second.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Well, it's actually a great base to start out from, starting with judo and then Greco-Roman wrestling-

   14. ITIlia Topuria9:26

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       ... and then going into jiu-jitsu. It's really great because you already have a- an established grappling base.

   16. ITIlia Topuria9:32

       Mm-Hmm. It's great, of course. My recommendation for everyone is if you want to have a career in, in, in MMA, you should start with wrestling because for me personally, because this is my p- personal experience, that it's much easier to learn in the future the boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       Really?

   18. ITIlia Topuria9:55

       For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in, in, in many people.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:59

       But how old were you when you first started boxing?

   20. ITIlia Topuria10:03

       17 years old.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       That's fairly old.

   22. ITIlia Topuria10:06

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       Like, when you think about how high level your striking is.

   24. ITIlia Topuria10:08

       Of course, it is.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       Yeah.

   26. ITIlia Topuria10:10

       But when I started I was like, "Okay, I'm very good with the wrestling. I can take people down, I can control them. I have a great ground game. But what if I go to the highest competition and s- I, I find some, some adversities? I have to be able to fight in the, in, in, in the striking also. So I have to deve- develop my game in the striking."

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       Mm-hmm.

   28. ITIlia Topuria10:32

       And I start from, from, from that, and I start with my brother. We were like the f- the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to leave it. So we were studying every day, all day, like, so obsessed. We were watching like all the videos of Julio Cesar Chavez-

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:47

       Oh, wow.

   30. ITIlia Topuria10:47

       ... of Canelo, all that, practicing all the techniques. And then, uh, putting in, in interaction the sparrings and all that. And I was like finding my style-
5. 11:01 – 14:40

   Building a champion without an ‘elite factory’: mindset, obsession, and becoming Spain’s first UFC champ

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:01

      Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts.

   2. ITIlia Topuria11:06

      Mm-mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:06

      So, like, you are the first champion-

   4. ITIlia Topuria11:09

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:09

      ... from Spain in the UFC. So it's, it's very interesting that you, you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet.

   6. ITIlia Topuria11:20

      So I was the first guy to, to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top five, and then the, the, the world champion. We, we had a guy in, in Spain who fought in, in, in the UFC, I don't know if you remember him, Enrique Wasabi.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:35

      Okay. Yeah.

   8. ITIlia Topuria11:36

      He did The Ultimate Fighter. Then we have another guy also, Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also. But before that we didn't have anyone in the UFC yet.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:46

      So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain?

   10. ITIlia Topuria11:50

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:51

       There was amateur MMA?

   12. ITIlia Topuria11:52

       Mm-Hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       And-

   14. ITIlia Topuria11:53

       I made three fights in amateur, and then I start with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain, and at some point it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European t- territory to, to, to get a fight.... yeah, and everything started from that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally, uh, well, there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite, high-level competition.

   16. ITIlia Topuria12:24

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       But it seems like that's not the case with your gym.

   18. ITIlia Topuria12:26

       No, it wasn't. So I don't know, I don't know what was the reason, to be honest, to, to came this far. I don't know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       Well, that's always the question with champions. Like, are champions born or are they bred? Because there's, there's gyms that develop... Like, Marvin Hagler came out of the Petroneli Brothers Gym in Brockton, Massachusetts.

   20. ITIlia Topuria12:47

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Hagler is one of the greatest of all time.

   22. ITIlia Topuria12:51

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel.

   24. ITIlia Topuria12:56

       The same thing. There was something inside me that made me the person who I am today.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       D- did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA, that you were gonna fight professionally?

   26. ITIlia Topuria13:09

       Yeah, since the first day. So my mindset always was the, the same, exactly the same as I have right now. I'm like, "If someone did it, I also can do it. And if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it."

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:24

       (laughs)

   28. ITIlia Topuria13:24

       This is the mindset I, I, I always had.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:26

       Mm-hmm.

   30. ITIlia Topuria13:27

       And it's like... Yeah. That... I think that the champion are, are... They are not born, they are made also, because you can burn in a, mm, extraordinary, uh, situation, but you can end up, mm, s- so bad, you know?
6. 14:40 – 24:45

   Fighters he loves watching & the ‘dominate’ mindset (Merab, Volk, and entertainment vs. efficiency)

   1. ITIlia Topuria14:40

      Who d- who do you love watching fight at this point?

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:41

      I love watching you fight.

   3. ITIlia Topuria14:43

      Yeah?

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:43

      Yeah, I'm a giant fan.

   5. ITIlia Topuria14:45

      Come on, man. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:45

      Um, I like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by the, the game in all different styles. I mean, I, I like watching all the champions. I mean, uh, I love watching Merab fight.

   7. ITIlia Topuria14:57

      Wow.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:57

      He's a fucking animal.

   9. ITIlia Topuria14:59

      He's the machine.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:00

       (laughs)

   11. ITIlia Topuria15:00

       I love him.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:01

       He's an animal.

   13. ITIlia Topuria15:02

       He's an animal.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is fucking crazy. It's like superhuman cardio.

   15. ITIlia Topuria15:09

       And I'm gonna tell you something about Merab that surprised me, that maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room. But I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon. Wow, that man is a fucking machine.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       He's a fucking machine.

   17. ITIlia Topuria15:30

       I'm, I'm a... Right now you ask me who I love to, to w- watch fight, that's Merab. I would pay, take my money.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       (laughs)

   19. ITIlia Topuria15:39

       When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point, I'm like, "Bro, take my money

   20. NANarrator15:43

       I want it."

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       But I love Umar too. Umar, you know, that fight was incredible. That was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful, so high level. And, you know, to see him w- make Umar start to wilt, to see Umar, like you see the wobble-

   22. ITIlia Topuria15:59

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       ... when guys start getting fatigued, you see there's like a little bit of, like, loose movement in the way-

   24. ITIlia Topuria16:03

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       You know, you see that? Merab had none, zero. Just shooting like, like he was in the first round in the fifth round.

   26. ITIlia Topuria16:10

       Because this is what I exactly think that happens to Umar, because you see, uh, Merab from outside, like you're sitting and you, you are seeing him training or fighting, and you're like, "He's not gonna be able to take me down. He's not gonna be able to do that to me." And then you get inside that octagon with him and everything changes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Yeah.

   28. ITIlia Topuria16:29

       It's like you have a, a machine in front of you who has like nonstop. He doesn't-

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Dan- Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday.

   30. ITIlia Topuria16:40

       Yeah.
7. 24:45 – 28:22

   Joe’s ‘rules overhaul’: no cage, no stand-ups, carry positions between rounds + MMA team competitions

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:45

      I don't even think they should fight in a cage.

   2. ITIlia Topuria24:48

      (sniffs) Yeah?

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:49

      Yeah. I think the cage is an unnecessary, um, it's a-

   4. ITIlia Topuria24:52

      Wow.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:53

      And I think it's an unnecessary element in fighting. Like, to push someone against something, or to be able to get up from something.

   6. ITIlia Topuria25:02

      Okay.

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:02

      I don't think it's necessary.

   8. ITIlia Topuria25:04

      And how would you show it?

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:04

      I think they should be in, like, a basketball court, like a basketball court that's matted up.

   10. ITIlia Topuria25:09

       Okay.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:09

       Have a big space. Have a warning track where you can't... if you go outside the warning track too many times, you, you could lose points.

   12. ITIlia Topuria25:15

       Okay.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:16

       And, um, so when someone takes you down, you have to actually get up. I also think, at the end of a round, like say if you've got a guy mounted at the end of the round-

   14. ITIlia Topuria25:25

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       ... you start the next round mounted on him.

   16. ITIlia Topuria25:27

       Of course.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:28

       Yeah, I don't think-

   18. ITIlia Topuria25:28

       Of course.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:29

       ... because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up?

   20. ITIlia Topuria25:33

       Exactly.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:33

       He never got up.

   22. ITIlia Topuria25:35

       Never got up.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       You have to earn a get-up. You have to stand up by yourself.

   24. ITIlia Topuria25:38

       I love it. I, I never thought about that-

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:40

       Yeah.

   26. ITIlia Topuria25:40

       ... actually.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:41

       No, no standups ever, ever. No standups. Unless someone commits a foul. Like if someone commits a foul and you wanna stand them up and take a point away, that's fine, but if the guy's at the bottom and he commits a foul, like if a guy's at the bottom and he gouges someone's eyes on purpose-

   28. ITIlia Topuria25:53

       Wow.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:53

       ... take a point away, put him right back in the same spot.

   30. ITIlia Topuria25:57

       Wow. That's great.
8. 28:22 – 42:13

   Promotion walls & missed superfights: UFC vs. ONE, and the Fedor-in-the-UFC saga

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:22

      That would be great. That's a great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I think that, that idea sounds really good. And also there is a bit of an issue, right, with the UFC being the premier organization for martial arts. The UFC is like if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion.

   2. ITIlia Topuria28:39

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:40

      Like, you're a world champion.

   4. ITIlia Topuria28:42

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:42

      World champion. Someone can fight in the PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the PFL world champion." Everybody's like, "Right."

   6. ITIlia Topuria28:47

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:48

      Come on. Come on.

   8. ITIlia Topuria28:49

      Because at the end of the day-

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:49

      Great fighters, but at the end of the day...

   10. ITIlia Topuria28:52

       You know that you have all the best fighters.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:54

       Right.

   12. ITIlia Topuria28:54

       The best collection of fighters in the UFC.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:56

       Yes. But I watch ONE FC and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there and I'm like, "Jesus Christ. These guys are good, man."

   14. ITIlia Topuria29:05

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:05

       "Some of these guys are good." And you know, they're calling them ONE, ONE FC world champions, I'm like, grr. I'd like to see 'em. I'd like to see 'em because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent and we've seen that before. Like some guys look like destroyers and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter and they get pieced up.

   16. ITIlia Topuria29:26

       What happens is that I think that in ONE Championship you... m- most of the time you're used to fighting with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who, who you're gonna face next. Maybe he's a wrestler.

   17. JRJoe Rogan29:38

       Right.

   18. ITIlia Topuria29:38

       Maybe you're gonna fight Demian Maia-

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:40

       Right.

   20. ITIlia Topuria29:40

       ... who wants to fight you on the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't fucking know.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:45

       Right.

   22. ITIlia Topuria29:45

       So you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything.

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:49

       Yeah.

   24. ITIlia Topuria29:49

       In ONE Championship, maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:55

       Yeah, maybe. I mean, there are some good grapplers over there, but my point is I really wish there was no organizations.

   26. ITIlia Topuria30:03

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't th- Look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to the UFC, but I wish there was just only fighting.

   28. ITIlia Topuria30:15

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. In boxing... But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys 'cause they all have different promoters.

   30. ITIlia Topuria30:24

       Exactly.
9. 42:13 – 56:08

   Conor McGregor: comeback skepticism, drug testing, lifestyle, and ideal matchups

   1. JRJoe Rogan42:13

      Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fedor's gonna fight bare-knuckle.

   2. ITIlia Topuria42:17

      Yeah, I, I heard something about that, that they, they-

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:19

      Yeah, uh, I think Conor's promotion.

   4. ITIlia Topuria42:21

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan42:21

      I think it's Conor's promotion, that BKFD, or whatever is.

   6. ITIlia Topuria42:23

      Actually, do you think he's gonna come back, Conor?

   7. JRJoe Rogan42:26

      If I had a bet? No.

   8. ITIlia Topuria42:27

      Yeah. No, I don't think he comes back.

   9. JRJoe Rogan42:29

      Why? 'Cause he hasn't come back yet. And he could've. You know, if he really wanted to, he would've been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled, drug-tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight.... like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Chan- Chandler. I understand that, okay. Why should you fight on a broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a lot, like Conor?

   10. ITIlia Topuria42:50

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan42:50

       He relies on movement so much. Yeah, I get it. So heal that toe up. What's that? That's two months. Broken toes, two months.

   12. ITIlia Topuria42:56

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan42:57

       And so then you're back in camp, and then you, you reschedule a fight, and then you fight again.

   14. ITIlia Topuria43:02

       Of course.

   15. JRJoe Rogan43:02

       But he didn't. Um, and also, partying, constant partying, all these law, legal problems that he has, you know, f- scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's, he's wealthy.

   16. ITIlia Topuria43:19

       He's done.

   17. JRJoe Rogan43:20

       Maybe. I mean, the, what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40, and his body just doesn't have it anymore.

   18. ITIlia Topuria43:29

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan43:29

       You know?

   20. ITIlia Topuria43:29

       So right now, he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could fight him.

   21. JRJoe Rogan43:33

       Right.

   22. ITIlia Topuria43:34

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan43:34

       Right. They could fight right now, yeah.

   24. ITIlia Topuria43:36

       They could fight because if they put him against Paddy, I think Paddy beats him easy now.

   25. JRJoe Rogan43:42

       Uh, well...

   26. ITIlia Topuria43:44

       You don't think so?

   27. JRJoe Rogan43:44

       A lot of years off, right? Lot of years off. You know, on the feet, Conor's a motherfucker, man.

   28. ITIlia Topuria43:49

       No, at the f- in, in the feet-

   29. JRJoe Rogan43:51

       Yeah.

   30. ITIlia Topuria43:51

       ... he's a motherfucker. I, I know that.
10. 56:08 – 1:16:04

    Title-shot politics at 155: Topuria demands Islam, rejects contender fights, and predicts the division

    1. JRJoe Rogan56:08

       I did ask who you get to fight, and they said, "We're working on things." But, uh, he was actually specifically talking about, um, what happens if Belal wins, you know, because, uh, Islam and Belal have been... They've been talking about Islam fighting Belal.

    2. ITIlia Topuria56:23

       That's gonna happen.

    3. JRJoe Rogan56:25

       I would like that to happen if Belal wins, but that's an if. Jack Dillamantellana is a bad motherfucker. He's good, man.

    4. ITIlia Topuria56:32

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan56:32

       That guy's good.

    6. ITIlia Topuria56:33

       Even if he wins, they gonna make that fight happen-

    7. JRJoe Rogan56:36

       Hm.

    8. ITIlia Topuria56:36

       ... against Islam.

    9. JRJoe Rogan56:37

       You think so?

    10. ITIlia Topuria56:39

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan56:40

        Well, if Ja- Jack Dillamantellana wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion. And, you know, maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The problem with Islam fighting Belal is that they trained together. And I think, you know, they'd kinda said that way ever.

    12. ITIlia Topuria56:53

        How many guys w- we- w- we see fight- fighting between each other that they used to train before?

    13. JRJoe Rogan56:59

        Oh, I agree. I mean, I think they should fight.

    14. ITIlia Topuria57:02

        Yeah, they should fight. Of course.

    15. JRJoe Rogan57:03

        I definitely think they should fight. I think Khabib doesn't like that idea.

    16. ITIlia Topuria57:08

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan57:10

        Yeah.

    18. ITIlia Topuria57:11

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan57:12

        (laughs) That's how I feel. But it's not just that. I mean, Dana's always putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it, they have 500 fighters on the w- on... In the roster at least and, you know, there's all these things that are happening and, like... Like, the Arman Tsarukyan thing, like, his back hurts the day of the fight. Wow. He's gotta pull out. Like, this is fucking crazy. This is-

    20. ITIlia Topuria57:34

        (laughs)

    21. JRJoe Rogan57:34

        You know what I mean? Like, imagine that. You have this whole promotion based around this, uh, elite fighter who's f- who fought Islam in his first fight, short notice. They- they go to a very close decision, a very close fight. Arman's gotten a lot better, Islam's gotten a lot better. Then they're gonna fight again and then the day of, he hurts his back. It's crazy.

    22. ITIlia Topuria57:53

        It happens, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan57:54

        Yeah.

    24. ITIlia Topuria57:54

        Very crazy.

    25. JRJoe Rogan57:54

        Yeah.

    26. ITIlia Topuria57:55

        But if you will be in the Dana's place, who would be my next opponent?

    27. JRJoe Rogan58:00

        Islam. 100%. 100%.

    28. ITIlia Topuria58:03

        I wish they did that fight.

    29. JRJoe Rogan58:04

        I tried to tell him that this weekend (laughs) .

    30. ITIlia Topuria58:06

        That would be a great fight.

Episode duration: 2:26:59