JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. ITIlia Topuria0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, well, my man. What's happening? Pleasure.

   3. ITIlia Topuria0:15

      No, please, my pleasure-

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      My pleasure.

   5. ITIlia Topuria0:16

      ... thank you very much for having me here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      My honor. I'm, uh, I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm ve- very excited about your journey into the lightweight division.

   7. ITIlia Topuria0:26

      Something that's, I feel very excited also about that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      What are you walking around at? Like what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?

   9. ITIlia Topuria0:33

      Hmm, I'm go- I'm gonna tell you in kilos.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Okay.

   11. ITIlia Topuria0:36

       I walk around 80, 82. That's-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       What is that, Jamie, like 160, 170?

   13. NANarrator0:42

       175.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       175?

   15. ITIlia Topuria0:43

       180.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       180?

   17. ITIlia Topuria0:44

       Most closely, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight, 35 pounds?

   19. ITIlia Topuria0:47

       25, 30 pounds, like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Oof.

   21. ITIlia Topuria0:49

       Yeah, that's a lot.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Hard.

   23. ITIlia Topuria0:51

       That was the hardest part-

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Yeah.

   25. ITIlia Topuria0:52

       ... of my train- of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple fights that, that I had, 'cause it's like I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in the fight game, you know?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ITIlia Topuria1:06

       And it was taking a lot of time and energy from me, and I'm like my dream is to, to become a world champion. I want to end up this, this chapter that I have, that I started in 145, and now it's time to, to really enjoy it, and I'm very excited about that. I already have one fight in 155.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Jai Herbert.

   29. ITIlia Topuria1:25

       Jai Herbert.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Yeah. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. It doesn't make any sense.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. ITIlia Topuria15:00

      machine.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      (laughs)

   3. ITIlia Topuria15:00

      I love him.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      He's an animal.

   5. ITIlia Topuria15:02

      He's an animal.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is fucking crazy. It's like superhuman cardio.

   7. ITIlia Topuria15:09

      And I'm gonna tell you something about Merab that surprised me, that maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room. But I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon. Wow, that man is a fucking machine.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      He's a fucking machine.

   9. ITIlia Topuria15:30

      I'm, I'm a... Right now you ask me who I love to, to w- watch fight, that's Merab. I would pay, take my money.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       (laughs)

   11. ITIlia Topuria15:39

       When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point, I'm like, "Bro, take my money

   12. NANarrator15:43

       I want it."

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       But I love Umar too. Umar, you know, that fight was incredible. That was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful, so high level. And, you know, to see him w- make Umar start to wilt, to see Umar, like you see the wobble-

   14. ITIlia Topuria15:59

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       ... when guys start getting fatigued, you see there's like a little bit of, like, loose movement in the way-

   16. ITIlia Topuria16:03

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       You know, you see that? Merab had none, zero. Just shooting like, like he was in the first round in the fifth round.

   18. ITIlia Topuria16:10

       Because this is what I exactly think that happens to Umar, because you see, uh, Merab from outside, like you're sitting and you, you are seeing him training or fighting, and you're like, "He's not gonna be able to take me down. He's not gonna be able to do that to me." And then you get inside that octagon with him and everything changes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Yeah.

   20. ITIlia Topuria16:29

       It's like you have a, a machine in front of you who has like nonstop. He doesn't-

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Dan- Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday.

   22. ITIlia Topuria16:40

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       Merab wasn't home, he was out running.

   24. ITIlia Topuria16:42

       (laughs) Yeah?

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       He won the title on Saturday, Daniel went to his house on Sunday, Merab's out running.

   26. ITIlia Topuria16:47

       Wow, he's crazy. He c- he came, he came to Spain also to help me once when, when I had the training camp, I was supposed to fight with Moosa. He came to, to, to help me. Crazy. We... The same exactly, exactly team. We, we were like finishing the training, he was going for a run.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       (laughs)

   28. ITIlia Topuria17:03

       He was going like actually to, to his house running. You know-

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Yeah, there's no shortcuts.

   30. ITIlia Topuria17:07

       No, there's no shortcuts.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      no organizations.

   2. ITIlia Topuria30:03

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't th- Look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to the UFC, but I wish there was just only fighting.

   4. ITIlia Topuria30:15

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:16

      You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. In boxing... But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys 'cause they all have different promoters.

   6. ITIlia Topuria30:24

      Exactly.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:25

      And if they all have the same promoter, they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation, right? If they all have the same promoter and the same managers and-

   8. ITIlia Topuria30:32

      Y- y- you know something about soccer? No.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:34

      Yeah, I know a little bit about it.

   10. ITIlia Topuria30:35

       Like, how they do, like, the Champions League.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Mm-hmm.

   12. ITIlia Topuria30:38

       They have like... For example, let's say, uh, the Real Madrid, they have a team. That's why I would... What I would do is, like, I would create a team against another team. For example, I have Real Madrid. I've, I, I sign, like, the best seven fighters in the world, whoever I want in, in different weight classes. And you have, for example, Barcelona. You, you sign the seven best fighters in the world, around the world. You train them in one place, you do, like, all the strategy, strategy, and we meet each other. We, we do a competition like a Champions League.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:10

       Mm.

   14. ITIlia Topuria31:10

       And we do, like, the whole year calendar, and the best wins. At the end, we do, like, the finals and w- we give them the space to recover. W- we, we create, like, a competition between teams, not individual, um, people. You know what I mean?

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       Yes.

   16. ITIlia Topuria31:26

       So I would do something like that, maybe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       That's a great idea. But the problem is, I think guys are... Guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick.

   18. ITIlia Topuria31:33

       So, that's why in, in soccer, you have guys that in your position, you always have two or three guys.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       Mm-hmm.

   20. ITIlia Topuria31:39

       That if you are injured, you, you have another guy-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Right.

   22. ITIlia Topuria31:42

       ... that can, can, can change you or switch you, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Mm-hmm.

   24. ITIlia Topuria31:45

       Be- between the rounds, even. Mm, you are... In soccer, sometimes it happens. Some- someone gets injured in, in estadio, stadium.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       Mm-hmm.

   26. ITIlia Topuria31:54

       And they can switch them.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:56

       Yeah. That makes sense. But I mean, at the end of the day, like, imagine, say, if you get scheduled to fight Islam, and, uh, I- Islam gets injured and Arman Tsarukyan takes his place or something.

   28. ITIlia Topuria32:08

       Mm-hmm. But you are, uh...

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:09

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   30. NANarrator33:23

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4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   But he took bunch…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use as an example.

   2. ITIlia Topuria45:03

      But he took bunch of steroids.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:06

      He did. All the steroids. (laughs)

   4. ITIlia Topuria45:06

      He, he took like a... (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      (Laughs) Luke Rockhold said when he, when he was weighing in, when he fought him, he said, "This guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth." (laughs)

   6. ITIlia Topuria45:16

      Yeah, on his fucking... Exactly, bro. That, that was-

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:19

      He was shredded.

   8. ITIlia Topuria45:21

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      But if you go back to Vitor when he fought Anderson Silva, before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all.

   10. ITIlia Topuria45:28

       No, he looked old actually.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       Yeah.

   12. ITIlia Topuria45:30

       He looked like his body wa- was relaxed.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:33

       Soft.

   14. ITIlia Topuria45:33

       Yeah, like this.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:33

       'Cause Vitor... Yeah, so this is the- look at the difference.

   16. ITIlia Topuria45:36

       Yeah, wow.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Before USADA and after USADA. I mean, that is a crazy example.

   18. ITIlia Topuria45:41

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:41

       So when he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked soft and s- like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same. And that was just a couple years after test... They fucked up with the testosterone use exemption 'cause what they did was, they would test guys, and if you're low on testosterone, "Oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption." But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to. All you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night, and your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low. So you could go get drug... You, who has normal, healthy levels of testosterone-

   20. ITIlia Topuria46:19

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       ... you could wreck your body on purpose then go get drug tested. And they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low testosterone. I'm gonna prescribe to you testosterone exemption." And so then you go and take testosterone and you become a fucking animal.

   22. ITIlia Topuria46:32

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       And, and you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it.

   24. ITIlia Topuria46:38

       So y- you think that at this point, there are guys in the UFC that are take, uh, taking like testos- uh, steroids, let's say steroids?

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       I would imagine there's for sure someone-

   26. ITIlia Topuria46:48

       Yeah?

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:48

       ... doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah.

   28. ITIlia Topuria46:50

       Wow. I don't know-

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       Yeah.

   30. ITIlia Topuria46:51

       ... because at, at this point, I feel that they are so strict with the-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. ITIlia Topuria1:00:00

      they asked me to... I- I vacate the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again, but I get the promise that I would fight for the title, mm, m- in my next fight.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ITIlia Topuria1:00:12

      So, m- how much time y- you will stop me and from the fighting?

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      So, they did give you a promise that your next... When you vacated the belt that your next fight would be for the title?

   5. ITIlia Topuria1:00:22

      Of course, if they gave that- that chance to everyone, why- why not to me?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

      Yes.

   7. ITIlia Topuria1:00:25

      They g- gave it to Henry Cejudo.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

      Mm-hmm.

   9. ITIlia Topuria1:00:28

      They gave it to Conor McGregor, they gave it to Georges St-Pierre.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ITIlia Topuria1:00:30

       They gave it to- to Jones. They gave it to everyone.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       Right. Yup.

   13. ITIlia Topuria1:00:33

       And I proved that I deserve that shot, as you said. I- I n- knock out, uh-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

       ... two of the all-time greats.

   15. ITIlia Topuria1:00:40

       Two of, uh, two of, um, of the all-time greats. To the greats, Volkan, who wa- who was, like, dominating everyone in, in 145 division, and Max Holloway. H- (gasps) great fighters, bo- both of them.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       Especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gaethje, which is, like, the greatest victory of his career. Yeah, to knock him out after that?

   17. ITIlia Topuria1:01:00

       And no one did it.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

       Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't get to make the rules.

   19. ITIlia Topuria1:01:07

       And the last fight he had was in 155-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       Right.

   21. ITIlia Topuria1:01:10

       ... against Justin Gaethje-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       Mm-hmm.

   23. ITIlia Topuria1:01:11

       ... who also fo- fought for the title.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       Yep.

   25. ITIlia Topuria1:01:15

       So.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

       Yeah. And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you. If you look at it-

   27. ITIlia Topuria1:01:22

       Who else?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:22

       ... like, he's kind of cleaned out the division. There's no re-

   29. ITIlia Topuria1:01:24

       Who else?

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

       No one else. I mean, Arman's gotta build himself back up.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:16:04

   Wow. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

   2. ITIlia Topuria1:15:00

      Wow.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      Look at his face. Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg. Click that one with Mike Goldberg.

   4. NANarrator1:15:05

      It's right here?

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:06

      Yeah, click on that. My God. Look how fucking skinny he looks. Look at his face. His cheekbones.

   6. ITIlia Topuria1:15:13

      Wow.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:13

      He looks like he just got out of, like, some Russian prison. Like ...

   8. ITIlia Topuria1:15:18

      Wow.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:18

      You know what I mean?

   10. ITIlia Topuria1:15:19

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15:19

       Bro, that one on the right is insane.

   12. ITIlia Topuria1:15:21

       He looks ... (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:15:22

       It's fucking insane.

   14. ITIlia Topuria1:15:23

       ... fucked with, with, with muscles. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:15:25

       That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost.

   16. ITIlia Topuria1:15:30

       I think he, he, w- he walks around in 185.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:15:33

       Whoo ... so he lost 40 pounds before he fought? That's crazy.

   18. ITIlia Topuria1:15:39

       He fought also at, uh, at the welterweight division, right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:41

       Yes. He fought, uh ... Well, he fought Donald Cerrone, who is really not a welterweight either. He was a 155-pounder.

   20. ITIlia Topuria1:15:48

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:15:48

       You know, but he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back. Like, when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight. And Chandler was like, "Okay." Like, but, you know, part of me wonders, like, whether he was ever really going to come back, you know? Uh, it's ... You know what I mean?

Episode duration: 2:26:59