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JRE MMA Show #168 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

Joe sits down with Khalil Rountree Jr., a professional mixed martial artist competing in the Light Heavyweight division of the UFC. ⁠www.ufc.com/athlete/khalil-rountree-jr⁠ @officialkhalilrountree This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit ⁠https://BetterHelp.com/JRE

Khalil Rountree Jr.guestJoe Roganhost
Jul 24, 20252h 18mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:43

    Intro

    1. KJ

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

    4. JR

      What's up, Jamie?

    5. KJ

      Check-a, check-a, check-a, check it out.

    6. JR

      Hey, G. What's up?

    7. KJ

      What up?

    8. JR

      How you feeling? What's going on?

    9. KJ

      Oh, man. Back from a amazing Thailand vacation.

    10. JR

      Oh, really?

    11. KJ

      After that, after the, uh, after the fight. It just feels like I've been on, like, just a great vacation journey. Baku was amazing, let me start off there.

    12. JR

      Please.

    13. KJ

      (laughs) Let me start off with Baku, Azerbaijan. Oh my gosh, what a place.

    14. JR

      I heard it's amazing there.

    15. KJ

      Absolutely incredible.

    16. JR

      Everybody who went there was raving about how great it was.

    17. KJ

      Absolutely incredible. When we got the news, like, "Okay, the fight's gonna be postponed. It's gonna go into Baku." I had never heard of the place in my life. Um, I agreed without even looking it up, you know, but in my mind I was thinking like, "Okay, this is place I've never heard of." You know, I started thinking like, "I don't know, it's probably gonna be something similar to, like, Saudi, and it's probably just, like, a lot of desert, blah, blah, blah." And then I get there and my mind was absolutely blown. Amazing treatment from Baku City Circuit, welcomed us in. Um, the fans were some of the best I've ever (laughs) encountered, man. They were so happy to have the UFC there. Um, everyone in the streets, like people who weren't even fight fans were just excited that the UFC was in Baku, so, like, that added to the experience. And then, um, it's just beautiful, man. Like...

    18. JR

      What was it like? What'd it look like?

    19. KJ

      (sighs) So, where

  2. 1:43 – 2:58

    Oldtown Baku

    1. KJ

      we were-

    2. JR

      Is it right there?

    3. KJ

      Yeah, so that's Old Town. So I did a tour through there.

    4. JR

      Whoa.

    5. KJ

      Uh, four-

    6. JR

      How old is Old Town?

    7. KJ

      It, I forgot, I, so I forgot, but I know that 4,000 people still live in Old Town. There's boutique hotels in there. Um, there's just so much history, um, as like when it was built, um, kind of what they're known for.

    8. JR

      Whoa.

    9. KJ

      I don't remember what that building is, um, but the architecture there is one of the things that, that's the, uh, the, the Flame Towers. So at night there's just projections and, like, it'll be like the flag or it'll just, it'll actually be like flames, um, because Baku is, uh, known for oil, like being one of the first oil countries. This is the Carpet Museum.

    10. JR

      Whoa.

    11. KJ

      An amazing place full of car- carpets that are like century years old.

    12. JR

      How the hell they built it to look like a carpet? How fucking wild is that?

    13. KJ

      (laughs) It's crazy. And all these carpets are handmade, like passed down generation after generation, so like they tell you how deep the, the, the culture and like the stories of these carpets, and like how... Oh my God. They, i- the, and clean, clean, friendly people, uh, that's a m-

    14. JR

      I know, a bunch of people that went there decided to stay for a few days.

    15. KJ

      I

  3. 2:58 – 7:24

    Back to Baku

    1. KJ

      would've, I, honestly, I wish that I would've stayed longer. I've already booked family trips. I've told everybody we're going back to Baku.

    2. JR

      Wow.

    3. KJ

      Oh, man. Like-

    4. JR

      That cool. (laughs) That's awesome.

    5. KJ

      (laughs) Just thinking about it, I'm like, "Dude, this is a place that I want to, I want to visit for the rest of my life. I wanna just keep going back to Baku, man."

    6. JR

      That's dope.

    7. KJ

      Yeah, so...

    8. JR

      And obviously you had an amazing result there too.

    9. KJ

      A- yeah, I think, I think that the, you know, I think that it really played into just my performance. I was just in a really good place. L- let me, okay, I was in a good place, but I was also (laughs) in kind of a fucked-up state, like not gonna lie. Um, I was just so happy to be across the world doing what I love to do and to be, like, treated like we're actually appreciated for, you know, like for what we do. And, uh, so that helped me get through all the other shit that I was dealing with.

    10. JR

      What was the other shit?

    11. KJ

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      What was going on?

    13. KJ

      Oh man, so I knew that we were gonna be jet-lagged, no matter what. I knew it 'cause we're traveling, you know, super far.

    14. JR

      That's like 16-hour flight, right?

    15. KJ

      Yeah, super long flight. So I knew we were gonna be jet-lagged, so I made sure that we got there two weeks early to adjust. Um, it took about six, almost about a week to like fully adjust. And then so during fight week, it's say second day, f- first day of fight week, I'm like throwing up and shit and nonstop.

    16. JR

      Oh no.

    17. KJ

      (laughs) And I'm like, "Okay, this is great." Like, "This is exactly what I wanna be feeling right now," you know? Pressure's on, I gotta fight, you know, like I'm super motivated. Um, yeah, and, uh, I'm just like, "I don't know what I'm," (laughs) "What am I gonna do, man?" Like...

    18. JR

      What was it?

    19. KJ

      I don't even know.

    20. JR

      Food poisoning?

    21. KJ

      I don't think so.

    22. JR

      A cold? Some kind of a cold?

    23. KJ

      Because e- everybody, everybody that, uh, I was with, we all ate the same thing. We were-

    24. JR

      You were, you were the only one who got sick?

    25. KJ

      I was the only one, man. I was the only one.

    26. JR

      Wow.

    27. KJ

      And so...

    28. JR

      And you don't cut a ton of weight.

    29. KJ

      No. So, uh, I think what was-

    30. JR

      What do you walk around at?

  4. 7:24 – 11:05

    After the Pereira fight

    1. JR

      the last time we talked was before the Pereira fight.

    2. KJ

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And it was a great fight.

    4. KJ

      Thank you.

    5. JR

      You had some great success, it was a tough fight. Uh, and then, uh, what is, what is it like after that fight? So you faced the best in the world, and you know that you can hang with him.

    6. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      You lost the fight, but you didn't... gained a ton of experience. You went five rounds with one of the greatest. And what is it like after that?

    8. KJ

      (inhales deeply) I'd say, (sighs) everything seems very different now. Um, I have been... Since the Pereira fight, I've been to, I'd say, more than six countries. And that every... I... There's fans there. Everyone, like, knows who I am now. And that is something that was a shock to me, um, especially coming off a loss and just knowing that, like, I gave my all in that fight and that's, I guess, what the people wanted from me, to get that type of, like, acknowledgement, 'cause I'd been in the UFC for so long. But that fight, I guess, really showed people, like, who I am and I got to show the world who I am, and, um, against a guy like Alex. So now I feel like I've at least kind of made my mark and been like, "Hey, I'm here." (laughs) You know?

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. KJ

      And so people are now like, "Okay, Khalil, I know this guy," as you can say the name, and now people kind of, you know, they're, they're familiar with, with who I am now. Um, but the other thing that it showed me was that I know... I now know who I am and what I'm capable of. Um, I spent majority of that fight just soaking in the moment and just like, "Oh, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here." I was excited to be there. Um, I gave everything I had, but then going back and watching it, I'm like, "Ah, I saw a lot of the mistakes that I made."

    11. JR

      What mistakes specifically?

    12. KJ

      The number one mistake that I think was made in that fight is that it was my first five rounder. And when I was going into the fourth, 'cause I took a lot of damage in, in the f- in the end of the, uh, like middle to end of the third, so I was up one and two. The beginning of three, I was starting to kind of... He started to kind of take over halfway through the round. And once he started hitting me, I was like, "Oh, shit, he's established his range and now I'm feeling it." So it wasn't necessarily like a cardio thing. It was just like I started taking damage, and everybody knows this guy hits hard. So I was taking the damage, I was rocked, I was dizzy. Going into the fourth, in the, in the break, I remember John Wood saying, "All right, man," like, "you're doing great. 10 more minutes." Like, "You can do anything 10 minutes. Just stick in there, we got this." And because I wasn't familiar with the five rounds, I took 10 minutes as sellout. So in the fourth round, I came out, like, ready to... (laughs) you know? I wasn't thinking with the mindset of like, "I'm up two, he just took the third. Fourth round, I need to maybe relax," you know? Maybe not-

    13. JR

      Pace yourself instead of-

    14. KJ

      Yeah, not get hit-

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. KJ

      ... you know, whatever. Fourth round, I came out, I bit down, and I went to war. I think that's what lost me the fight, for me personally.

    17. JR

      So you made a lot of adjustments

  5. 11:05 – 13:39

    Making adjustments in the Hill fight

    1. JR

      in the Jamahal Hill fight.

    2. KJ

      1000%.

    3. JR

      Yeah, you could see it. You could see... First of all, what a performance.

    4. KJ

      Thank you.

    5. JR

      I mean, you dominated a world champion. I mean, dominated him. It was-

    6. KJ

      Thank you.

    7. JR

      ... such a clear-cut victory. And it was a victory where a lot of people thought that you were gonna struggle with him.

    8. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      And, you know, you just really, you really showed, uh, a level above the Pereira fight. And I think m- maybe part of it is what you're talking about, like choosing when to engage and when not to engage. Like there was moments in that fight where you were dominating the fight, but there was moments where he was coming after you, you just moved, you just moved. You moved away from him. And I know it pissed him off, but it's like, hey man, you know, you were way ahead.

    10. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      You were way ahead and you were do- you were dominating the exchanges, then when you chose to exchange with him, you were hurting him-

    12. KJ

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... and dropping him. It was very impressive, man.

    14. KJ

      Thank you. And that was, uh, that was the product of, you know, really reviewing mistakes and...

    15. JR

      You also do some wild shit like standing hammer fists.Was that something you practiced?

    16. KJ

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      Were you practicing that?

    18. KJ

      Absolutely, man.

    19. JR

      That's a crazy move, man.

    20. KJ

      Absolutely, man. We're artists, you know?

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. KJ

      I think that that's one thing that, you know, I try my best to always embody the artist in mixed martial arts. I think it gets lost in the growth of the sport of MMA, you know? But, you know, from this, the past conversations we have and you understanding kind of how, how I was before, like, man, I need some type of outlet for creativity, you know?

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. KJ

      And I, I-

    25. JR

      And that's what it is?

    26. KJ

      My m-

    27. JR

      Standing hammer fist. (laughs)

    28. KJ

      I mean, my mind it, you know, just-

    29. JR

      Hey, man.

    30. KJ

      ... m- my essence is art, so I'm like, "How can I, you know, paint this picture of, like, expression, of-

  6. 13:39 – 15:08

    Moving quicker in the middleweight division

    1. KJ

      that's the fun part of it.

    2. JR

      I think there's an advantage that you have also as a lighter guy in that division, is that you move quicker. And that was kinda evident in that fight.

    3. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      The... You're like... You know, there's a range of light heavyweights and you're on the smaller range.

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      Like, there's a lot of guys like Dricus who's bigger than you-

    7. KJ

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      ... who's the middleweight champion.

    9. KJ

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      He's fucking huge, man.

    11. KJ

      (laughs) Yeah.

    12. JR

      It's the opposite thing, right?

    13. KJ

      Yeah, for sure.

    14. JR

      He's cutting a ton of weight. I don't know what he cuts, but every time I interview him I'm like, "How?"

    15. KJ

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      "How the fuck are you 185 pounds? You're enormous."

    17. KJ

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      He looks like a heavyweight.

    19. KJ

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      And he is a heavyweight when he fights. I mean, he's over 205 for sure when he fights.

    21. KJ

      Yeah, these guys, th- they blow up.

    22. JR

      Blow up.

    23. KJ

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      And you don't. And I think because of that, you have this, uh... You have speed, and not just speed of the strikes, but the way you move in and out.

    25. KJ

      Mm.

    26. JR

      You know? It's like when you close the distance on Jamal, you could see, it was like, there were some moments where I think he was surprised by the speed in which you were able to close the distance.

    27. KJ

      Yeah, I think so as well. Um, there were... Yeah, there were some reactions in there that I was picking up on. Um, I could see a bit of frustration, you know?

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. KJ

      Um, I feel like I was able to read a lot of the things before they, you know, before they would come. And, um, yeah, I, I'm, I mean, I heard everything that his coaches were saying, and in my mind I was just seeing him struggle with, like, not being able to react the way he wanted, and maybe that was because, you know, there was, there was the speed that they weren't necessarily

  7. 15:08 – 15:57

    Leg kicks

    1. KJ

      dealing with.

    2. JR

      The speed and also the leg kicks. You, you fucked him up early with leg kicks.

    3. KJ

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      And that it really had a significant effect. When you see him switching stances-

    5. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JR

      ... and he doesn't like to stand orthodox, you know?

    7. KJ

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      You saw a lot of changes.

    9. KJ

      Yeah. He, he did... I can, I can say that, you know, there were some improvements made. I think that he probably spent some more time working on his footwork. He was a lot less flat-footed than he usually is. Um, I could tell that, like his... A lot of the times his toes were pointed at me and that wasn't what I studied. (laughs) You know what I mean? Like... (laughs)

    10. JR

      (laughs) So he made some changes.

    11. KJ

      He made some changes, for sure.

    12. JR

      He, he landed some very good leg kicks, specifically in the first round.

    13. KJ

      Yeah, thank you. I, uh, I always do my best to, you know, try to channel my Muay Thai and-

    14. JR

      Yeah,

  8. 15:57 – 19:06

    Eric Anders fight

    1. JR

      no-

    2. KJ

      ... you, you know what I mean?

    3. JR

      ... d- dude, you like, one of the few... Like, I rem- remember we talked about that, about the Eryk Anders fight, like you, when you came back from Thailand the first time, you, you were fighting like a Thai.

    4. KJ

      Mm.

    5. JR

      And me and DC were having a blast with it.

    6. KJ

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      We're like, "Look at this." Like, light on the front foot, it was a, like, totally different approach.

    8. KJ

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      But, um, and he landed some very good leg kicks in the first round too. It was a good exchange, but yours were doing a lot more damage, and-

    10. KJ

      Yeah, he started off with the leg kicks. Like, I think he threw maybe three or four calf kicks before I actually started answering back. Um, yeah, he, so he started it and (laughs) I was just like, "Okay, cool." (laughs) "If this is the game we're playing," like, "I love this game."

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. KJ

      You know? Like, "I love this game." So, um, yeah, it was, it was, it was a great fight, man. I-

    13. JR

      Why did you start the beginning of the fight, like, with your hands down just, like, walking towards him?

    14. KJ

      'Cause that's how I felt, Joe. I mean, like, uh, th- I, I feel like in that fight... So there was, there was not necessarily, like, beef between Jamal and I. Like, we never really exchanged... You know, there wasn't any, like, heated discussions or anything. But we all have phones, we all have social media, we all... You know, I get Google alerts and stuff anytime I'm mentioned and so, like, I've seen things that were said and I'm just like, "Okay, whatever." I don't agree with it and I don't... You know, whatever. If this guy looks at me as... However, that's just his opinion.

    15. JR

      What was he saying? Like, what was it?

    16. KJ

      It w- just like... I think it was, like, things again about, like, the Alex fight or just saying that, like, "He's gonna outskill me." Or, you know, "I don't belong in the division." Just, you know, things like that.

    17. JR

      You weren't on that level.

    18. KJ

      Like, don't take my exact word for it-

    19. JR

      Right.

    20. KJ

      ... but that's kinda how... Like, that's the stuff that I kinda saw. So, the... For me, there was no real reason to show any, like, respect. You know, if we're in the same building, if we're in the same room, I just like, "Whatever." I wanted to just kinda block him out. Um, and then during the weigh-ins... So I had a, I had a press conference and they were saying like, "Hey, in the Alex fight," you know, you, "there was a lot of blood, you got cut up, da-da-da-da-da." Um, "Can we expect the same thing from you in this fight?" And I said, "No. There's not gonna be any blood on my face."... how you're interviewing me now is how you're gonna interview, eh, me after the fight. I'm gonna look the same. He didn't like that. I didn't say his name, but he didn't like that. And so at the weigh-ins he come, like... And mind you, we had three days before the weigh-ins and we'd seen each other in the hotel room and blah, blah, blah. Or in the hotel, you know? There were many more opportunities for him to say what he said, but he chose to do it at the weigh-ins in front of Dana White. And I thought that was like, "Come on." (laughs)

    21. JR

      What did he say?

    22. KJ

      He said, "Oh, you're gonna bleed." (laughs) "You gonna bleed. Eh, eh, you better believe that. You're gonna bleed." Like, in my face, like, "Oh, I'm gonna make you bleed." And I was just like, "Okay." Like, "Sure." (laughs) You know? Like that was just really, like, i- internally, like, I'm, "Okay, sure. Yeah. Whatever."

  9. 19:06 – 20:59

    Why he didnt get cut

    1. KJ

      And-

    2. JR

      Why did you think that you wouldn't get cut? Like what made you think?

    3. KJ

      I knew how I've been training and what I'm prepared for, and I know the type of athlete and fighter and man that I am, and I just knew that it wasn't gonna happen. I was just that confident in my abilities and the work that I put in that I just knew it wasn't gonna happen.

    4. JR

      It's pretty wild also considering you're coming off of a loss. Like, you had more confidence coming off of a loss.

    5. KJ

      100%. Because the loss just showed me that there's more work to do, you know? Like, people always say back to the drawing boards, and like, it was more than the drawing boards for me. It was like back to the dirt, back to the Vegas weather, back to the dying on the assault bike, back to challenging myself, back to going deeper. Who am I really? What am I really capable of? And, you know? Like- (laughs)

    6. JR

      Hmm.

    7. KJ

      That, well, that was it. It was just like deep, deep internal digging to get out and to discover what I'm made of.

    8. JR

      Hmm.

    9. KJ

      And so in that comes confidence. In that comes like, "I n- I know what I'm capable of, and I know what I can do." And so that's how I felt. (laughs) You know?

    10. JR

      Wow.

    11. KJ

      And so that's why I walked out like that, because I was just like...

    12. JR

      'Cause it's kinda wild. I was going, "What is he doing?" (laughs)

    13. KJ

      It, I, but I was also prepared, you know? Like, I didn't wanna rush anything.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. KJ

      Like nothing needed to be rushed. Like the cage is closed and we got 25 minutes. Why am I gonna run out, you know? Like... (laughs)

    16. JR

      Right, right, right.

    17. KJ

      No. Like, I walk here. I know that you're not gonna do anything. I wasn't threatened. Like that, that statement in my face didn't like, "Grr." I was just like, "God, here we go again." (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. KJ

      You know what I mean? Like another guy that wants to, like, get in my face. Like, yeah. And I did the job that needed to be

  10. 20:59 – 21:45

    Casuals

    1. KJ

      done.

    2. JR

      It was a very measured performance. And some people didn't like that. Some people, you know, uh, the casuals I think. There's casuals that-

    3. KJ

      They wanted to see blood.

    4. JR

      They just wanna see chaos. They don't-

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... care about your health, they don't care about-

    7. KJ

      They don't care about me at-

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. KJ

      ... the age of 50 with... You know what I mean? When this is all over and I want my knees and my hands and my fingers and everything to work.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. KJ

      And I wanna be able to speak sentences and go through the airport on both my feet and not in a wheelchair.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. KJ

      They don't care about that.

    14. JR

      No.

    15. KJ

      And that's okay.

    16. JR

      Yeah, it's okay.

    17. KJ

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      I mean...

    19. KJ

      You know? Like...

    20. JR

      The only time it bothers me is when referees react. Like when referees separate people 'cause of booing.

    21. KJ

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      Like don't do that.

    23. KJ

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Don't do that.

    25. KJ

      Yeah, you can't-

    26. JR

      Don't get a-

    27. KJ

      The referees can't be influenced by the crowd.

    28. JR

      Yeah. Don't, don't give into the casuals.

    29. KJ

      You can't, man.

  11. 21:45 – 24:49

    Smart performance

    1. KJ

      Um...

    2. JR

      'Cause I thought it was a very smart performance. Like if you're gonna fight a guy like Jamal who's an awesome counter striker, one-punch knockout power, got a series of bodies behind him, like-

    3. KJ

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      ... uh, he's knocked out a lot of dudes.

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      He knows how to do it. You gotta fight him smart. And-

    7. KJ

      For sure.

    8. JR

      And that's what you did.

    9. KJ

      And I wasn't, yeah, uh, uh, just like to be clear, I know the things that I said can come off as like overly confident or whatever. I wasn't sleeping on Jamal, you know? Like I knew what he was capable of and I trained hard for him. I really did. Eh, every day was, was dedication. Every day was, you know, strategy and planning. So-

    10. JR

      When did you feel like everything was coming together in the fight?

    11. KJ

      Uh... Before the fight.

    12. JR

      Really?

    13. KJ

      Like, yeah. The, the, the win for me happened before the fight. Um, like I said, I think with camp, um, the training, you know, my head trainer, like with John, with Lorenzo, with Christian. (laughs) Just the guys who are in my circle, um, and the work that we do, I just, that really helped me with, you know, a lot, a lot of confidence and a clear vision and a path to victory, and I just stuck to it. So I just had a feeling that if I st- if I stick to the plan, I win this fight.

    14. JR

      And you did.

    15. KJ

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      Yeah. It was-

    17. KJ

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      It was very measured, very smart in a... And I liked it. I really enjoyed it. Like-

    19. KJ

      Thank you.

    20. JR

      I enjoyed it because I like when people fight smart. I really do. When f- people maximize the amount of damage that they put out, minimize the amount of damage they receive in return. That's what you did.

    21. KJ

      Yeah. And so, yeah, now we got the next one, Jiri Prochazka.

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. KJ

      Did you see that news?

    24. JR

      I did.

    25. KJ

      Just saw it yesterday.

    26. JR

      I did, I did.

    27. KJ

      Yeah. Um, so this is, man, I'm excited about this fight. Yeah.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. KJ

      I, I really am. Um, another guy who's, you know what I mean? Like former champion, very skilled, very dangerous.

    30. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  12. 24:49 – 25:44

    Training for Yuri

    1. KJ

      that night.

    2. JR

      So, how do you train for a guy like Yuri? Like, what, what do you do? I mean, are you gonna watch a lot of tape on him? Like, how do you prepare for a guy like that that's very unusual?

    3. KJ

      Um, without giving away too much, I think that it just requires, you know, study. Like passing any test. You know what I mean? Like i- it requires dedication and focus and, you know, doing the right study, making the right adjustments, um, and training. (laughs) You know? It's, uh, the rest, I think, is, is art. You know? Like how we go about solving the, the problem is for everybody to enjoy. Um, but I think that, yeah, it comes, it comes from study, and, um, good training partners as well. I think that that's a huge, um, a huge thing in, in anybody's

  13. 25:44 – 28:56

    Emulating someones style

    1. KJ

      training camp is-

    2. JR

      Do you have anybody that could emulate that style?

    3. KJ

      Um-

    4. JR

      Or will you even try?

    5. KJ

      You know what? I... To emulate someone's style, I think, is, it, it's helpful. It is. It, it is helpful. But it's very hard 'cause you can never really truly, you know, be someone. So someone can give you certain looks that maybe you'll see. Um, so I don't, I don't rely too heavily on, you know, on emu- people emulating. Um, but I do appreciate, you know, bodies and people that are, um, around the same size, just so I can, you know, get used to that body contact of maybe someone who's a bit taller and-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. KJ

      ... not training with guys who are maybe shorter. You know? Like, if I had a short guy who can emulate my opponent-

    8. JR

      It's not gonna help against a tall guy like Jamal.

    9. KJ

      (laughs) You know? It doesn't help.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. KJ

      So if I have, if I have a taller guy who maybe can't emulate, and I can do what I want to do against a taller body, then the rest is up to, like, my awareness, and, like, making sure that, you know, a guy who maybe has this weird style, like, "Okay, I'm, I'm aware of that, but I know what I can do against someone of the same size."

    12. JR

      Yuri's just... He's so unusual in that a lot of times his hands are down really low. His s- his stance is very wide, and he moves back and forth like a cobra. Like, he, he hinges at the waist more than probably anybody.

    13. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JR

      And he does a lot of unusual stuff that you could see guys, like, try to adjust to that when they're inside the cage with him. It's like-

    15. KJ

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      ... you have this weird moment where you have to think and consider these new possibilities.

    17. KJ

      Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. I think that, uh, you know, like I said, I just, I've just returned from, you know, a reset. Um, and, yeah. And now I'm, as soon as I leave here, I'm, you know, I'm locked back into-

    18. JR

      Dun, dun, dun.

    19. KJ

      ... samurai mode. (laughs) You know? And, uh-

    20. JR

      What'd you do in Thailand? Were you just training? Were you just vacationing, or did you do any training?

    21. KJ

      Oh. It was incredible, Joe. So, uh, my wife and I got invited to Thailand from the Thailand Tourism Authority.

    22. JR

      Wow.

    23. KJ

      So they invited us to come. They hosted us in Bangkok. Uh, amazing hotel. Dusit Thani Hotel. You have to go. If you ever go to, to, to Bangkok, Dusit Thani. So, they hosted us. They took us to, like, a small pro- or the smallest province in Thailand called Samut Songkhram. And in that province, they are known for, uh, having the best coconuts in all of Thailand. So all, like, coconut water, coconut sugar, all that stuff most likely comes from Samut Songkhram. Um, salt farm, a bee farm, uh-

    24. JR

      What's a salt farm?

    25. KJ

      Salt farm, so they, they made these channels that come from, uh, the nearest, like, body of water, and they get the salt. They extract the salt from the sea, and then they create a bunch of different things from it, you

  14. 28:56 – 31:37

    How salt is made

    1. KJ

      know? Bath salts.

    2. JR

      Oh, so they do it with some kind of machinery?

    3. KJ

      I- No, it's like... Yeah, there's a little bit... Yeah. It's, uh, looks like this. Yeah, exactly.

    4. JR

      Huh. Oh, so they do it by hand?

    5. KJ

      Yeah, they do it by hand. These peop- Dude, they're out there... Yeah, just, this is their daily life. And so we got to v- hang out with these people that l- that, like, live in this province.

    6. JR

      Whoa. That's how they do it?

    7. KJ

      Yeah, man.

    8. JR

      I woulda never known. So w- how are they getting salt out of the water like that? Like, what do you do to-

    9. KJ

      I honestly, like... I was so excited to be there that I probably missed out on a lot of the details, but that's how it looked. Like there were these windmills and I know they're like-

    10. JR

      The water evaporates, it looks like.

    11. KJ

      Yeah, the water evaporates and then there's, like, salt left at the bottom and then-

    12. JR

      Rake it into a pile.

    13. KJ

      Yeah. (laughs)

    14. JR

      Huh.

    15. KJ

      They rake it into a pile and then it goes through other processes. But, um, it's really cool, their, just, experience. Like they're very passionate about... And there's different salts from everywhere. Like that up there on the right is salt. I don't know where it came from, but-

    16. JR

      That, for- that stuff that looks like, like dark, like cereal?

    17. KJ

      Y- Yeah, it's salt. It's like-

    18. JR

      It doesn't look like cereal? (laughs)

    19. KJ

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      Chips.

    21. KJ

      No, w- but, like, yeah.

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. KJ

      Cornflakes. They're toasted Cornflakes.

    24. JR

      Yeah, something.

    25. KJ

      Um-

    26. JR

      That's salt.

    27. KJ

      But, yeah. And so they had different, like, salts that came from everywhere and you can see, um, how it, how it forms d- based off of like the, you know, the, whatever ecosystem.

    28. JR

      Mm.

    29. KJ

      Um, yeah. So, so cool. So that's Samut Sakhon. We were in Samut Songkhram and, uh-Really cool, man. So they, we went on there, we went there. Um, they took a bunch of, I guess, influencers from around the world and, uh, flew them into Thailand to welcome us and show us diff- just different sides. It's not always about, you know, the beaches in Phuket and all the stuff. Like, they, they took us and then spread us out. So, that's where we got to go. And then, um, we went back to Bangkok and had this crazy cool gala. Um, Buakaw was there, you know?

    30. JR

      Oh, wow.

  15. 31:37 – 32:33

    Vacationing

    1. KJ

    2. JR

      So, it was all basically vacationing, not training?

    3. KJ

      Uh, no training because it was fresh out of the fight. So I flew ... I was in Baku two weeks. I flew from Baku to Vegas, stayed in Vegas eight hours, and then flew from Vegas to Thailand. (laughs) So, I, like, went around the world in, like, 24 hours. Um, so I was fresh out the fight, so there was, there was no training.

    4. JR

      Would it be closer to go from Baku to Thailand?

    5. KJ

      Yeah, but the trips were booked separately.

    6. JR

      Oh.

    7. KJ

      So, like, in order for that ticket to, you know, to actually work-

    8. JR

      Oh.

    9. KJ

      ... I had to be in Vegas to fly out. Um, but I did it. I thugged it out and, um-

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. KJ

      ... yeah, it was, it was the best way to recover. Like, this was a good recov- recovery for me because I started the camp, uh, for Jamal in February, is when I heard about it. But then it got postponed due to, like, one of his injuries. And, uh, yeah.

    12. JR

      Wow.

    13. KJ

      Yeah, and now I'm back. And, um ...

    14. JR

      When you

  16. 32:33 – 33:32

    Winning over Jamal

    1. JR

      get a big victory like that over a guy like Jamal, what does, what does that feel like in your head when you know the work paid off?

    2. KJ

      Uh, to just keep going, um, and to just, to just keep, like, keep digging. You know? Like, it- it's, it's nice 'cause I'm ... Before, you know, w- like, when I went u- I, I went on that five-fight win streak, I was, like, coming back from Thailand and, like, now I'm, I'm fully in this. You know? (laughs) I'm, I'm 100% in. And with that, uh, that means, like, I'm just g- I'm committed to digging this tunnel. And so, like, a win over Jamal, like, that tunnel isn't open yet. Like, I gotta get the belt first, (laughs) you know? Like, but I'm digging and I saw like, oh, maybe I got this, like, cool gemstone. Like, okay, cool, put that in my bag. But, like, now I'm, you know, I'm committed. I'm still, I'm still in the mine, you know? And, and so I got-

    3. JR

      Eyes on the prize.

    4. KJ

      Eyes on the prize, man.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

  17. 33:32 – 36:15

    Prizes

    1. KJ

      Yeah.

    2. JR

      And the prizes, it's very interesting now, right? 'Cause Pereira lost to Ankalaev-

    3. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      ... and they're gonna rematch on that same card.

    5. KJ

      Same card.

    6. JR

      Yeah, which is gonna be wild.

    7. KJ

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      That- that's the main event. And then co-main is Merab and Cory Sandhagen-

    9. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      ... which is another awesome fight.

    11. KJ

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      So, it's gonna be one of those cards.

    13. KJ

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      It's, I mean, right now-

    15. KJ

      It's gonna be a busy night for John Wood. (laughs) He's got me and Merab the same night.

    16. JR

      Just those three fights.

    17. KJ

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      Just that- that's an insane card if ... Obviously, if it stays together, i- i- MMA is rough with that. People get injured.

    19. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JR

      But if that card stays together the way it's pieced up right now, just with those three, I mean, whew.

    21. KJ

      Yeah.

    22. JR

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    23. KJ

      From what I've seen so far and, like, just the, the texts that I've gotten, yeah, a lot of people are really excited about it, which hypes me up and makes me wanna-

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. KJ

      ... you know, train smarter.

    26. JR

      Well, you know, Iuri, who also beat Jamal in one of his last fights, looked fantastic in that fight. And coming off of the Pereira fight, he also made some big changes and big improvements.

    27. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JR

      So that's one of the things that makes your fight with him so much more interesting.

    29. KJ

      Yeah, 'cause I- I'm sure from his last even a loss to Pereira, he ... I knew c- h- him coming back, he mentioned it. Like, he wants, he wants to fight for the title again. You know what I mean? (laughs)

    30. JR

      Yeah.

  18. 36:15 – 38:25

    Rematch vs Perez

    1. JR

      thing is, though, it's like he lost twice, you lost once, so it's like it's a little tougher to sell his fight-

    2. KJ

      Mm.

    3. JR

      ... than it is to sell a rematch with you. And I think you probably had more success, certainly than him in the second fight. The second ri- fight, he, he got kinda tuned up.

    4. KJ

      Yeah, I think second round.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. KJ

      You know, second round was the head kick.

    7. JR

      Well, the first round, he got dropped hard at the end.

    8. KJ

      Dropped hard and then came out second round head kicked.

    9. JR

      Yeah, and then got head kicked. Yeah.

    10. KJ

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      He was out of it going into the second.

    12. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      That left hook landed clean.

    14. KJ

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      At the end of the f- it could've been the ov- the end of the fight right there.

    16. KJ

      Yeah.... no, those, those, uh, Pereira's got a different power, man. For sure. Like, it's, it- it feels like a stone.

    17. JR

      Does it, it feels remarkably different?

    18. KJ

      Remarkably.

    19. JR

      Really?

    20. KJ

      Yeah. Getting punched, I've never been punched as hard as I did when I fought Pereira. Like, ever. And sparring, it, there was just something... It's kinda crazy, 'cause like, you just, I- I give credit where credit's due. You know? Like, I don't wanna g- gas him up too much. But there is just one thing, and it's like, I don't know. I- I've, I think that (laughs) it's tr- it's real (laughs) . You know what I mean? Like-

    21. JR

      Well, it's obviously real.

    22. KJ

      Yeah, yeah. It's- it's real. The power, the power, the strength is real. It's not, it's not anything lucky. It's calculated.

    23. JR

      Oh. Yeah.

    24. KJ

      But when it lands, it's like, yeah.

    25. JR

      Now, he was a guy I talked up big time when he was in Glory. When he, when I found out he was coming over to the UFC, I was like, "Buckle up, 'cause this is just different."

    26. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      He just hits different. And, you know, his frame's different too. It's a very, he's-

    28. KJ

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      ... moves different.

    30. KJ

      I remember when like, during the weigh-ins, um, when we faced off. And like, he just bent his arms up like this, and I was like, "Fuck, this is a big man." (laughs)

  19. 38:25 – 40:38

    UFC exits

    1. JR

      been unbeliev- Well, I think that's one of the things that contributed to it, is Izzy knocking him out. Other than the perfect punch, I mean, Izzy landed an absolutely perfect punch.

    2. KJ

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      But I think, I mean, it's well-noted that when guys lose that much weight-

    4. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      ... they're a little bit more vulnerable to getting hit.

    6. KJ

      Yeah. 100%, man. And, um, you wa- you watched the, uh, the Poirier fight, I'm sure.

    7. JR

      Sure.

    8. KJ

      Oh, yeah. You- you were there, no?

    9. JR

      No, I wasn't there.

    10. KJ

      You weren't there?

    11. JR

      The last one. You mean, with Max?

    12. KJ

      Yeah, yeah. With Max.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. KJ

      Pretty sick, man.

    15. JR

      Very good fight.

    16. KJ

      I was very happy.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. KJ

      And what a cool like, I don't know. I like what the UFC's doing now with, like, the exits. You know? Like, Anthony Smith got a sick exit.

    19. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. KJ

      Like, Dustin's got a sick exit. For me, I don't know. I, that- that was kinda one of the highlights of- of that night for me. Not only did I feel like they both put on a really good fight. I just thought like, "What a cool way to- to be able to just like do that much work, and then like be appreciated for it."

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. KJ

      Like, win or lose. I think, yeah, maybe the tides are changing a little bit. Maybe, you know... (laughs)

    23. JR

      In what way? What do you mean?

    24. KJ

      Like, I felt like for a long time, and still to this day, my- it- it, it's still pretty like heavy. But to lose in MMA was almost kinda like the end of the world to the fans.

    25. JR

      'Cause it is in boxing.

    26. KJ

      Yeah (laughs) , yeah.

    27. JR

      You know?

    28. KJ

      You know?

    29. JR

      In boxing, everybody wants to be undefeated.

    30. KJ

      Yeah. Like, undefeated.

  20. 40:38 – 44:26

    Sports commentary

    1. KJ

      for sure.

    2. JR

      Yeah. I hope the tide is turning that direction too.

    3. KJ

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      I just, people need to, it- it's like, again, it's casuals. It's like, people love... 'Cause one of the things that I really struggled with in the early days of commentary is that s- regular sports people were starting to do MMA commentary.

    5. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JR

      And they were talking about fighters the same way they would talk about like, a football player drops a pass, or a basketball player misses a shot. V- very disrespectfully.

    7. KJ

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Choked. They were say- they were saying a lot of shit, and I was like, "Hey, hey, hey."

    9. KJ

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      "You don't know what the fuck you're talking about."

    11. KJ

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      Like, "This is the wrong sport to be coming over here and talking like that."

    13. KJ

      For sure, man.

    14. JR

      You know? In the early days in particular, there was a lot of that. There was a lot of people that they wanted to get credit for their work by just being that arrogant. You know, there's like a bunch of those people in s- the sports world that are just like insulting-

    15. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      ... ar- And then, you know, there's a long history of athletes meeting those people and fucking them up, and s- slapping them.

    17. KJ

      Yeah (laughs) .

    18. JR

      And s- 'Cause it's- it's super disrespectful. And I don't know why, b- but there- there's like a culture, particularly in America, that embraces that, and that likes that. Because that's the kinda talk that like dum-dums have when they're on the job. They're like, "Did you see him last night? Fucking loser."

    19. KJ

      Yeah, yeah (laughs) .

    20. JR

      "He missed that three-pointer."

    21. KJ

      (laughs) Yeah.

    22. JR

      "You should've passed the ball." Like, you know, shut the fuck up, man.

    23. KJ

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      Just (laughs) , it's, I hate that shit.

    25. KJ

      Oh, yeah. It's-

    26. JR

      I hate that shit, 'cause I didn't do a lot of team sports, you know.

    27. KJ

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      I- I only was involved mostly in combat sports when I was a kid. And so, disrespect like that was like, "God, you don't know what you're even talking about." You don't-

    29. KJ

      Yeah, it's annoying, man.

    30. JR

      You don't understand what this is. These guys are l- risking their fucking life. It's different than everything else you watch.

  21. 44:26 – 46:26

    ESPN

    1. KJ

      ESPY award or something.

    2. JR

      I wonder what's gonna happen if the UFC doesn't renew the ESPN contract.

    3. KJ

      Mmm.

    4. JR

      Because there's this negotiation thing that's going on right now and I don't know where they're gonna land. There's talk of Netflix, there's talk of other networks, there's a bunch of different talk. And the- one of the things that we benefit from is ESPN not just as the host of the fights, but also covering the fights.

    5. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JR

      All the additional coverage, all the SportsCenter talk, all the different shows that they have on ESPN+, the post-fight shows.

    7. KJ

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Those are all huge.

    9. KJ

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      You know, the breakdown, people love that shit.

    11. KJ

      No, they do. Yeah.

    12. JR

      They love the pre-fight breakdowns, you know-

    13. KJ

      Pre-fight breakdowns.

    14. JR

      ... Allen Joba-

    15. KJ

      Allen Joba, Karen Bryant.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. KJ

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. KJ

      I think, yeah, I think it's great. I would- I mean-

    20. JR

      Rashad Evans.

    21. KJ

      Yeah. It's gotta-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. KJ

      It's gotta stick around, man. Like, I think that-

    24. JR

      I hope so. I lo- I love ESPN and I love the- I like getting it- getting it that way off the app. It's easy.

    25. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    26. JR

      You know?

    27. KJ

      And it- I think it helps us too. I mean, it definitely helped the sport grow, right?

    28. JR

      100%.

    29. KJ

      And I think that people who ... I think it helped us as fighters gain those fans who were, you know, football fans.

    30. JR

      Oh, yeah.

  22. 46:26 – 52:26

    Staying sane

    1. KJ

      man?

    2. JR

      It's pretty much the same for me.

    3. KJ

      Really?

    4. JR

      I get to sit down and talk to cool people.

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      And I live my life pretty insulated.

    7. KJ

      That's good.

    8. JR

      So I- I don't deal with all the hoopla-

    9. KJ

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... and chitter chatter.

    11. KJ

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      I just keep it moving.

    13. KJ

      Okay. Fair.

    14. JR

      That's the way to stay sane. You got to just keep it moving.

    15. KJ

      Yeah, yeah.

    16. JR

      My day is basically the same every day. Get up early, write, shoot arrows, get in the cold plunge, lift weights, work out, do what I gotta do, come here.

    17. KJ

      Okay.

    18. JR

      It's the same.

    19. KJ

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      And then I go to the club, tell jokes, go home, go to bed, rinse, wash, repeat. That's what I do.

    21. KJ

      Nice.

    22. JR

      I- I don't do anything any different, so a- as chaotic as it seems-

    23. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JR

      ... it's the same for me.

    25. KJ

      Okay.

    26. JR

      I think what fucks people up is when they get caught up in other people talking about them and then they get involved in it and then they start reading things and they start thinking, "Is that who I am or is this who I am?"

    27. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JR

      "Who's right? Am I a fucking loser? Am I the coolest guy ever? Who am I?" You know, uh-uh. Just keep- keep working.

    29. KJ

      I love that.

    30. JR

      Yeah, it's the only way. The on- the only way to not go crazy when you get really famous is to keep doing exactly what you've always been doing.

  23. 52:26 – 1:17:25

    Usyk training

    1. KJ

      saying in the past, like, "Oh, you should start a podcast." I was like, "Uh, maybe not yet, but how about a YouTube channel?" So, um, yeah-

    2. JR

      Well, people love behind-the-scenes stuff. They really do. They love to see people train, training in particular.

    3. KJ

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      You know, I spent a lot of time watching, uh, Usyk training before this, uh, last Dubois fight.

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      Psh, fuck.

    7. KJ

      Was it crazy? I saw something the other day. It was like, "Usyk swimming five hours." I was like, "Oh my God."

    8. JR

      He's an animal, man.

    9. KJ

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      I mean, he's so fucking good. He's so good. I mean, think about what that guy has done. He beat AJ twice, he beat Tyson Fury twice, and now he beat Dubois twice.

    11. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JR

      That's crazy.

    13. KJ

      No, it's incredible.

    14. JR

      Those are two of the best, like, o- of this era. I think he's one of the best of all time, I really do. I think he's one of the best heavyweights of all time. And his movement is so dif-... One of the things that was interesting, um, uh, when they were, they were talking about the fight. And AJ was, uh, he was ta-... Uh, Tony Bells was talking about when he fought him. And AJ was saying that when he fought him, it was the most exhausted he's ever been.

    15. KJ

      Hmm.

    16. JR

      Because he's always moving. You nev- you're not... There's no rest with him.

    17. KJ

      No resting time. Yeah, yeah.

    18. JR

      There's, like, constant-

    19. KJ

      Yeah, yeah.

    20. JR

      ... there's constant twitching, so you-

    21. KJ

      Under fire the whole time. (laughs)

    22. JR

      You're, you're constantly thinking, "When is this coming?" There's no silent agreements. There's no relaxation. There's no... You know, there's n- there's no rounds off.

    23. KJ

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Everything is he's putting it on you and moving constantly.

    25. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    26. JR

      Like, I always say he's like a giant Lomachenko.

    27. KJ

      Got it.

    28. JR

      And they were both trained by the same guy.

    29. KJ

      Oh, were they?

    30. JR

      Yeah. Lomachenko's father trained Usyk as well.

Episode duration: 2:18:59

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