JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:08

   Crawford’s Canelo win: silencing doubts about size and weight jumps

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

   2. TCTerence Crawford0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      [upbeat music] Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] All right, champ is here.

   4. TCTerence Crawford0:14

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Madravo fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight?

   6. TCTerence Crawford0:20

      Yeah, I believe so. I believe so.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      It was before that fight, and that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo, and everybody was like: "That's crazy! He's gonna go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that. That's nuts." Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now. [laughing]

   8. TCTerence Crawford0:37

      Yeah. Yeah. You know what I say, skills pay the bills.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      They do. They do. Skills are everything, man. Uh, but the thing is, it's like, it's interesting, I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madravo fight again recently, [mouth clicks] and Madravo looked bigger.

   10. TCTerence Crawford0:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       He looked bigger than Canelo.

   12. TCTerence Crawford0:54

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       It was really interesting.

   14. TCTerence Crawford0:55

       He was a big dude, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       He's a big dude.

   16. TCTerence Crawford0:57

       He's a big dude.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       I wonder what that guy walks around at, 'cause it's not 154.

   18. TCTerence Crawford1:01

       No, not at all.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       He's a big guy.

   20. TCTerence Crawford1:02

       I think he fought at 160 his last fight.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Did he?

   22. TCTerence Crawford1:04

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Yeah. Really, a, an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, uh... Like I was saying, telling you before, it was a great I-told-you-so fight for me. 'Cause, uh, there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump, he's too experienced.

   24. TCTerence Crawford1:23

       [chuckles]

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       But you got it.

   26. TCTerence Crawford1:25

       Yeah, it was-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       I mean, you made it look, I, I wanna say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive, you know? It was, it was such a clear victory. It was so- it was... At one point when you were pity-patting him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, "Oh, my goodness, he's feeling it!"

   28. TCTerence Crawford1:42

       Yeah, I was, I was in my element. I was in the zone, s- mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you know, telling me I was gonna get knocked out, I was too small, and I was just fighting for the money, when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, "I'm gonna t- I'm gonna show y'all what I'm really about," because this is not the first time that I done heard that, "Oh, he can't do this, he can't do that."

3. 2:08 – 3:10

   Being underrated because you make elites look ordinary

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:08

      I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, "Roy Jones, other than James Toney, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody."

   2. TCTerence Crawford2:20

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:20

      And I, and I was like: No, he's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good.

   4. TCTerence Crawford2:27

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:28

      If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say, "These guys are awesome."

   6. TCTerence Crawford2:31

      For sure. For sure. And I, I've been dealing with that my whole career, you know, people getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out, you know, if they beat him. "Oh, such and such beat this guy." But me, it's, "Oh, you fighting tomato cans," or-

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:52

      [laughing]

   8. TCTerence Crawford2:52

      ... "You fighting bones," and things like that. So I was just like-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:55

      It was just 'cause you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they, they try to find flaws in every great performance.

   10. TCTerence Crawford3:03

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, "Yeah, but who are these guys that he beat?"

   12. TCTerence Crawford3:07

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       But you beat great guys.

   14. TCTerence Crawford3:09

       Champions. [chuckles]

4. 3:10 – 4:50

   The Benavidez fight: injuries, confidence, and the 12th-round finish

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      Yeah, I mean, listen, uh, one of the m- more interesting fights to me was the Benavidez fight. I, I re-watched that again recently, too.

   2. TCTerence Crawford3:18

      That was a good fight.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      Especially that... Whoo! 'Cause there was so much tension.

   4. TCTerence Crawford3:21

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:22

      There was so much shit-talking and tension and so many emotions.

   6. TCTerence Crawford3:26

      And he can fight.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:27

      He can fight.

   8. TCTerence Crawford3:28

      You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury, and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same, you know? So that's another thing that they're gonna say, "Oh, well, he had got shot in the leg, and if he didn't, then this would've happened or that would've happened." And I'm like, "He fought the same." Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that use his legs, uh, as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt and laugh at them.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:10

      Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he, he fought the same, and he fought well.

   10. TCTerence Crawford4:16

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:16

       I mean, he's a tough guy. He, he fought really well, and-

   12. TCTerence Crawford4:18

       Took me 12 rounds.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:19

       Yeah. Listen, and but, oof, that right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down, I was like, "Oh, my goodness!" I w- I remember watching that fight live. I was like, "Oh, there it is."

   14. TCTerence Crawford4:29

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:29

       "There it is. You found him."

   16. TCTerence Crawford4:30

       Yeah, he, he had good head movement, you know, and-

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:34

       Tough guy

   18. TCTerence Crawford4:34

       ... he, he was, he was ducking them hooks and them straight, straight punches, so I was just like, "All right, I gotta switch it up."

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       Well, also, he believed in himself.

   20. TCTerence Crawford4:44

       For sure. Definitely.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       Yeah.

   22. TCTerence Crawford4:45

       Definitely.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:46

       He came into that fight to win.

   24. TCTerence Crawford4:48

       Oh, definitely.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       Yeah.

   26. TCTerence Crawford4:48

       Most definitely. Most definitely.

5. 4:50 – 6:59

   Legacy timing, casual fans, and boxing politics (“side of the street”)

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:50

      Yeah. It's, uh, it's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve, because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set.

   2. TCTerence Crawford5:04

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:04

      You know, the people inside boxing, the re- the, the people that really know boxing did, but I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit, and so the, the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae.

   4. TCTerence Crawford5:17

      Yeah. Yeah, it was, and even now, a lot of people saying, "Oh, well, Canelo's washed, he's old."

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:22

      [chuckles]

   6. TCTerence Crawford5:22

      And I'm like: Well, I'm older than him.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:25

      [laughing]

   8. TCTerence Crawford5:25

      Like, what are we talking about, you know? So I just, I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on. You know, for everybody to already know what's, what, what happened, and then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:44

      Right.

   10. TCTerence Crawford5:45

       So I just be like, "Man, it's cool."

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:46

       That's boxing, though.

   12. TCTerence Crawford5:47

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       Right? That's sports in general. You're always gonna have that. There's always gonna be a bunch of sideline people that talk-

   14. TCTerence Crawford5:53

       Mm-hmm

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:53

       ... a lot of shit. But, you know, for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficult-... difficulty s- signing big fights.

   16. TCTerence Crawford6:03

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:03

       It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like, think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, "Oh, shit!"

   18. TCTerence Crawford6:12

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       Like, I think he was, like, 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad, and a lot of people were saying, "He's washed up. He- it's over." And when he knocked out Trinidad-

   20. TCTerence Crawford6:22

       Mm-hmm

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:22

       ... everybody was like, "Oh, okay."

   22. TCTerence Crawford6:24

       Yeah. Yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning, you know? Um, they created a whole side of the street 'cause of me, you know, and I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now. All the promoters are working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way, and I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       [lips smack]

6. 6:59 – 9:55

   Why some fights don’t happen: Canelo vs Benavidez and historical ‘missed’ matchups

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:59

      That's true. Yeah. It's a, it's a dirty business. You know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids certain fighters, it's, it's always been that way, you know? And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many f- like, the big one for a long time was, uh, David Benavidez and Canelo.

   2. TCTerence Crawford7:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:22

      Like, everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you, you gotta think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavidez.

   4. TCTerence Crawford7:32

      Nah, not, not, not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavidez gonna come in the ring. You know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know, and I just think Canelo knows, like, "Why would I wanna get in the ring with this guy that's gonna be massive come fight time? And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills." Because, because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career-

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:12

      Yeah

   6. TCTerence Crawford8:12

      ... you know, and beating them with skill. You know, so you gotta tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished-

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:20

      Absolutely

   8. TCTerence Crawford8:21

      ... being 5'7", going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and, and actually winning and winning-

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:30

      Knocked out Kovalev.

   10. TCTerence Crawford8:30

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career-

   12. TCTerence Crawford8:33

       Yeah

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:33

       ... but it's still Kovalev.

   14. TCTerence Crawford8:34

       For sure. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime?

   16. TCTerence Crawford8:37

       For sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:38

       I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight-

   18. TCTerence Crawford8:42

       Mm-hmm

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       ... the Bivol fight. 'Cause I think after that fight, he's like, "Okay."

   20. TCTerence Crawford8:45

       Yeah, this dude is big. [chuckles]

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:46

       "This is a little big."

   22. TCTerence Crawford8:48

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:48

       'Cause Bivol, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out.

   24. TCTerence Crawford8:55

       Good boxer.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:56

       It's a difficult style to handle.

   26. TCTerence Crawford8:58

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       You know? And the, like, the only guy to beat Beterbiev-

   28. TCTerence Crawford9:01

       Mm-hmm

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:01

       ... was, uh, another beast.

   30. TCTerence Crawford9:04

       Yeah, so I think, you know, him knowing that, and then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavidez had persuaded him to go elsewhere. But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight.
7. 9:55 – 13:27

   Fight-craft details vs Canelo: counters, rhythm changes, and winning the chess match

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:55

      It's like all the bullshit's gone. It's like now everybody's gotta give you your just due, 'cause that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was o- one of the all-time great performances because it was a Canelo that's... You know, you could say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime. And you just outboxed him, and you outboxed him... I mean, think about it, 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68, and you outboxed him-

   2. TCTerence Crawford10:21

      Thirty-five first.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:22

      Oh, that's right.

   4. TCTerence Crawford10:22

      [laughing]

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:22

      Thirty-five first. Right, that's right. That's crazy!

   6. TCTerence Crawford10:25

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:26

      That's crazy, going up from 35 to 68-

   8. TCTerence Crawford10:30

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:30

      ... and outboxing the champ. And the way you did it, too, it was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. When you're, if you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch. 'Cause, you know, Cal- Canelo's a dangerous guy. He's a heavy puncher-

   10. TCTerence Crawford10:46

       Yeah

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       ... and he, he puts a lot of power into his punches. He's, he's kind of changed over the years a- and really relied more on his power, but man, he knows how to land it, and when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble.

   12. TCTerence Crawford10:58

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:58

       And whew, he just... There was, there was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it, before you even brought the hand back.

   14. TCTerence Crawford11:10

       Mm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       So he was going to counter, and you were throwing a quick hook.

   16. TCTerence Crawford11:13

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:13

       I was like, "Oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty."

   18. TCTerence Crawford11:16

       Trying to catch him on the counter.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:17

       Yeah.

   20. TCTerence Crawford11:17

       You know, Canelo is a great counter-puncher, you know, so you gotta beat him to it. You gotta counter the counter at times.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:24

       Did that fight play out the way you thought it was gonna play out?

   22. TCTerence Crawford11:27

       Yeah, most definitely.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:28

       Exactly the way you thought it?

   24. TCTerence Crawford11:29

       Yeah, most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know, um, when I went to his fight against Berlenka and against, um, the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name. Munguia. Munguia. When I was with Turkey, I said, "Turkey, he can't beat me." Just watching him from 135 to now, like, live, I'm looking at him, I'm just like, "I can beat this dude." Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, "Mm-... yeah, he can't fight like that against me. Which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was gonna stop me from getting that victory that night.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked, like, under-motivated.

   26. TCTerence Crawford12:26

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:27

       Like it wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like-

   28. TCTerence Crawford12:32

       Yeah

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       ... when you look at him.

   30. TCTerence Crawford12:34

       He wasn't, you know, uh, and that, and it happens, you know? That's why I always train like this is the toughest fight of my career, 'cause it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about, quote.
8. 13:27 – 17:06

   Greatest-of-all-time talk and the decision to retire on top

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:27

      You know. It's, uh, it's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever, and, uh, it's interesting how that changes-

   2. TCTerence Crawford13:42

      Mm-hmm

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      ... how people now look at your bo- and then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, "Errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter." And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had, and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought, and... But now with the Canelo victory, you, you're in this rare air of-

   4. TCTerence Crawford14:08

      [chuckles]

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      ... you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time.

   6. TCTerence Crawford14:10

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:11

      You know, there's a handful of guys-- there is no... It's very difficult to say the greatest of all time, 'cause people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson. They, you know, they throw Floyd in the mix, prime-time Roy Jones. There's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time, but you are now in that conversation.

   8. TCTerence Crawford14:28

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:28

      That's gotta be nice.

   10. TCTerence Crawford14:30

       It's beautiful, you know, especially all the hard work that I done put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting. I've been a fighter since day one. So when people compare me to, like, Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard, comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       Oh, you absolutely did. Now you definitely done, done?

   12. TCTerence Crawford15:05

       [chuckles] It's over with.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:07

       It's definitely over?

   14. TCTerence Crawford15:08

       Yeah. I don't got n- so I told, I told a co- couple of my close friends, I said, "Okay, since 2014, I've been fighting for something: a title." I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed titles, undisputed, undisputed titles, undisputed, like, just everything that I've been fighting for. Now I just come back, and it's just like, all right, well, what's the motivation? Just money? You know, like, all right, so what, what is it on top of that? You know, because my, my thing was, the money gonna come. You know, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing. I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you know, and I think I, I did that. You know, so now it's like, this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no better finish than that, to me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       Yeah.

   16. TCTerence Crawford16:20

       What, what was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that was stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through in camp, in camp to get to that fight, you know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what, what can top that?

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:39

       I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for, for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in, undefeated, and beat Canelo, another all-time great-

   18. TCTerence Crawford16:54

       Mm

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:54

       ... I mean, that is, that is a perfect finale-

   20. TCTerence Crawford16:57

       Yeah

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       ... for a spectacular career. That's pretty dope.

   22. TCTerence Crawford17:00

       For sure.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice.

9. 17:06 – 22:46

   Health, brain trauma, and rejecting the limelight: why Crawford stays low-key

   1. TCTerence Crawford17:06

      It's, it's, it's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters endure to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot. You know, we put our body through a lot, and then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourself, they don't care about us.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:33

      Right.

   3. TCTerence Crawford17:33

      They gonna say, "Oh, well, he was once a good champion." And we go to the fights, you see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk past them.

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:42

      Yeah.

   5. TCTerence Crawford17:43

      You know? They on to the next. "Oh, let's see the young fighter," you know, and it's like they use you up till you have nothing left, then they forget about you.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:53

      Yeah.

   7. TCTerence Crawford17:53

      You know, so it's, it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first, because once it's, once it's over with, it's over with, and you can't, you can't get your health back.

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:05

      Right.

   9. TCTerence Crawford18:05

      You can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't-... your mind is messed up-

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:12

       Yeah

   11. TCTerence Crawford18:13

       It's over with.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too. To see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out on top, and done.

   13. TCTerence Crawford18:28

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:29

       And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting, they go, "Man, I think I got one more in me." And then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit.

   15. TCTerence Crawford18:40

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:41

       That's the real problem.

   17. TCTerence Crawford18:42

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       The real-

   19. TCTerence Crawford18:43

       It's, it's always gonna be that, you know, "I got, I got another one in me. I got another one in me," because they miss that, that high of all the fans chanting their name, and everybody, you know, cameras, lights, and, you know, they, they miss it, you know? But I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. I-

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:08

       Really?

   21. TCTerence Crawford19:09

       Y'all can have the lights. Just, just pay me and I go under the rock somewhere-

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:13

       [laughing]

   23. TCTerence Crawford19:13

       ... you know, take care of my family, you know. I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:21

       How come?

   25. TCTerence Crawford19:22

       'Cause that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. You know, I be under the radar.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       I do like that you show up by yourself.

   27. TCTerence Crawford19:37

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:37

       But one time, you showed up at one of the UFCs, and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar, and they put it on the fucking screen. [chuckles]

   29. TCTerence Crawford19:44

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       And I didn't catch it, 'cause I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, "Are you guys out of your fuckin'-"
10. 22:46 – 33:27

    Switch-hitting mastery: stance switching in boxing vs MMA and teaching the next generation

    1. JRJoe Rogan22:46

       That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, and does it perfectly, and does it in a way that is very unusual. Because, like, you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best.

    2. TCTerence Crawford23:05

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan23:06

       You know, and, like, that, God, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny, one of the times you were in here, you were telling me that his coach- your coach told you to stop doing that. [laughing]

    4. TCTerence Crawford23:15

       Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, "You need to focus more on fighting orthodox, the right way, instead of switching to southpaw." I was just like, "All right, switch southpaw again." Then it was just like, he was like, "All right, well, if you gonna do that, we're gonna train like that." I was like, "All right, let's train like it," [chuckles] 'cause I'm gonna keep switching, 'cause it just ca- came so natural.

    5. JRJoe Rogan23:35

       Yeah.

    6. TCTerence Crawford23:35

       I be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then they'll just- I'll just switch, like, unthinkingly. Bah, bah, bah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan23:42

       Yes.

    8. TCTerence Crawford23:42

       Man, you know, it was just, I win and I win. He was like, "All right, we gonna fight like... We gonna train like that."

    9. JRJoe Rogan23:49

       Well, it's such a underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it, because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch.

    10. TCTerence Crawford23:57

        Different angles, all that.

    11. JRJoe Rogan23:59

        In MMA, it's become commonplace.

    12. TCTerence Crawford24:01

        Mm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan24:01

        In, in the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other, and now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching, because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques.

    14. TCTerence Crawford24:14

        Mm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan24:14

        There's so many different things you could do in MMA off of switch- 'cause you're switching and kicking-

    16. TCTerence Crawford24:18

        Mm-hmm

    17. JRJoe Rogan24:18

        ... you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in southpaw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. It's like things are come- there's so much overload of the mind, where you have to calculate all these different things, and if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up-

    18. TCTerence Crawford24:34

        Yeah

    19. JRJoe Rogan24:35

        ... inside the cage.

    20. TCTerence Crawford24:36

        Yeah, because some people, they have better-... chances on one side than the other, you know? And then when you switch on them, it's just like, "Oh, f- I hate fighting southpaws."

    21. JRJoe Rogan24:47

        Right.

    22. TCTerence Crawford24:47

        You know, it just do something to their brain-

    23. JRJoe Rogan24:49

        Mm-hmm

    24. TCTerence Crawford24:49

        ... you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

    25. JRJoe Rogan24:54

        Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and the left-

    26. TCTerence Crawford24:58

        Yeah

    27. JRJoe Rogan24:58

        ... and then y- y- your, your brain has to, like-

    28. TCTerence Crawford25:02

        You gotta worry about the hook now-

    29. JRJoe Rogan25:03

        Yeah

    30. TCTerence Crawford25:03

        ... instead of the straight.
11. 33:27 – 42:49

    Ryan Garcia, Shakur Stevenson, PED tests, and rehydration clauses

    1. JRJoe Rogan33:27

       You're always gonna have casuals. You're always gonna have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But, like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Teofimo, that last fight-

    2. TCTerence Crawford33:36

       Mm-hmm

    3. JRJoe Rogan33:36

       ... like, that was art.

    4. TCTerence Crawford33:38

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       That was art. That sneaky jab-

    6. TCTerence Crawford33:41

       Yeah

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:41

       ... where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab, and you could see Lo- Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it.

    8. TCTerence Crawford33:46

       Nope.

    9. JRJoe Rogan33:46

       He didn't know what to do. It was beautiful. It was b- he barely got hit.

    10. TCTerence Crawford33:51

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan33:51

        It was beautiful.

    12. TCTerence Crawford33:53

        And, and things like that, you know, you see two high-caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level-

    13. JRJoe Rogan34:03

        Yeah

    14. TCTerence Crawford34:03

        ... because of his boxing IQ. You know, not because Teofimo didn't belong in the ring with him, it's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here.

    15. JRJoe Rogan34:16

        Yes.

    16. TCTerence Crawford34:17

        You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade-

    17. JRJoe Rogan34:21

        Right

    18. TCTerence Crawford34:21

        ... shots and give Teofimo the opportunity to land a good shot and change the, the, the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is, in a good, in the right spot at the right moment, anybody can get knocked out.

    19. JRJoe Rogan34:38

        Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched.

    20. TCTerence Crawford34:43

        Right.

    21. JRJoe Rogan34:44

        It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Teofimo, Teofimo can crack.

    22. TCTerence Crawford34:50

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan34:50

        He's a big dude, and he's a world champion, and it was one of the most lopsided performances ever-

    24. TCTerence Crawford34:55

        Mm

    25. JRJoe Rogan34:55

        ... where you see one world champion challenging another world champion.

    26. TCTerence Crawford34:58

        For sure.

    27. JRJoe Rogan34:59

        I mean, it was, it was art. Uh, to me, I was... E- every moment of that fight, like, u- up until the 12th round, I was just like... There was, uh, multiple times, I was like, "Ooh!"

    28. TCTerence Crawford35:09

        [laughing]

    29. JRJoe Rogan35:10

        Oh, my good- it was just beautiful.

    30. TCTerence Crawford35:12

        Yeah.
12. 42:49 – 54:36

    Weight cutting realities: Crawford’s hardest cuts and MMA’s bigger structural problem

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:49

       They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut?

    2. TCTerence Crawford42:53

       ... the most I ever had to cut was probably, like, 25.

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:58

       Whew! That's a lot.

    4. TCTerence Crawford42:59

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:59

       What weight was that, 35 or 40?

    6. TCTerence Crawford43:01

       47.

    7. JRJoe Rogan43:02

       47, really?

    8. TCTerence Crawford43:03

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan43:03

       Wow.

    10. TCTerence Crawford43:05

        My last fight with Spence.

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:07

        And when did you start your cut?

    12. TCTerence Crawford43:09

        Whew, months.

    13. JRJoe Rogan43:10

        Months out?

    14. TCTerence Crawford43:11

        Yeah, months out.

    15. JRJoe Rogan43:12

        So the week of the fight, what were you at?

    16. TCTerence Crawford43:15

        Probably, like, 152, 54.

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:20

        Oh, okay.

    18. TCTerence Crawford43:21

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:21

        That's very good.

    20. TCTerence Crawford43:22

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:22

        That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.

    22. TCTerence Crawford43:25

        But it was, them last couple of pounds is tough.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:28

        Yeah.

    24. TCTerence Crawford43:29

        Them last couple of pounds are tough, and I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know? But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was, like, killing me.

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:45

        What were you walking around at back then?

    26. TCTerence Crawford43:47

        Probably, like, in the 50s.

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:51

        Mm.

    28. TCTerence Crawford43:52

        Like, 55.

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:55

        And, and so would you just lower your calories in camp, in camp and then-

    30. TCTerence Crawford44:00

        Everything.
13. 54:36 – 1:51:56

    Business power, UFC vs boxing structures, and Riyadh Season changing matchmaking

    1. TCTerence Crawford54:36

       I think it, these combat sports, it gotta come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing, I think if the, if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, "Oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power."

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:59

       Right.

    3. TCTerence Crawford55:00

       You know, but they can't cut the check without us.... mm-hmm, you know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard.

    4. JRJoe Rogan55:09

       Right.

    5. TCTerence Crawford55:10

       Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something, but the fighters that doesn't, they like, "Well, you can do that. I gotta provide for my family. You can take a, a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's gonna last, but who gonna pay my bills?

    6. JRJoe Rogan55:32

       Right.

    7. TCTerence Crawford55:32

       Who gonna put food on my family table while we doing this, while we making this stand?"

    8. JRJoe Rogan55:37

       Right, right.

    9. TCTerence Crawford55:37

       So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established.

    10. JRJoe Rogan55:43

        Yes.

    11. TCTerence Crawford55:44

        You know, and I think that's where, you know, the, the seesaw effect happens with, with boxing and UFC, because there's a lot-

    12. JRJoe Rogan55:53

        Well, UFC is more extreme, because it's really just the UFC.

    13. TCTerence Crawford55:56

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:56

        It's really... I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA, UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed, and he winds up leaving, and he goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching.

    15. TCTerence Crawford56:11

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JRJoe Rogan56:11

        Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He, he knocked out some dude in the PFL, and nobody cared.

    17. TCTerence Crawford56:17

        Is he making more money?

    18. JRJoe Rogan56:18

        Yes.

    19. TCTerence Crawford56:19

        He care. [chuckles]

    20. JRJoe Rogan56:20

        He cares. Well, that's why he did it.

    21. TCTerence Crawford56:22

        Yeah, that's, that's all that matters.

    22. JRJoe Rogan56:24

        He maybe got a great, a great deal with the PFL, and then he got to box, box Tyson Fury-

    23. TCTerence Crawford56:29

        Yeah

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:29

        ... boxed Anthony Joshua.

    25. TCTerence Crawford56:31

        Doing well.

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:31

        Doing well.

    27. TCTerence Crawford56:31

        Doing well.

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:32

        Much, much more money, for sure-

    29. TCTerence Crawford56:33

        Doing well

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:34

        ... which is good, but the, the, the fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed.
14. 1:51:56 – 2:10:42

    Discipline, old-school camps, and training science: rest, monitoring, and great coaching

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:51:56

       I got into, uh, old, uh, boxing footage real recently. Over the last, like, six months, I've been watching a lot of, like, old camps, and there's some great YouTube channels that are, shows Hagler's camps.

    2. TCTerence Crawford1:52:07

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:52:07

       And Hagler's camps were phenomenal.

    4. TCTerence Crawford1:52:09

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:52:09

       It was so good. Like, Hagler was rich, and he would go to Provincetown, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No disrespect, Provincetown.

    6. TCTerence Crawford1:52:18

       [chuckles]

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:52:18

       I'm just saying, in compared to where he could be.

    8. TCTerence Crawford1:52:21

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:52:21

       I mean, he could be in New York City, he could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere, and run on the beach, and live in a room with no TV, no nothing, just eat, sleep, train.

    10. TCTerence Crawford1:52:34

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:52:34

        He was sparring 100 rounds a week. I mean, it was wild! Watching him train was incredible. It was incredible, and when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned.

    12. TCTerence Crawford1:52:46

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:52:47

        No stone unturned, and it was just all discipline, and drive, and focus and... And he was another guy that didn't get his due, didn't get his due until he stopped, really until he stopped Hearns.

    14. TCTerence Crawford1:53:00

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:53:00

        That's when people really woke up, you know? All the inside boxing people were very aware, but it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world caught on.

    16. TCTerence Crawford1:53:08

        'Cause he wasn't flashy.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:53:10

        Yeah, wasn't flashy, just dominate.

    18. TCTerence Crawford1:53:13

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:53:13

        Just break people's wills. The Mugabi fight, to this day-

    20. TCTerence Crawford1:53:16

        Mm

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:53:16

        ... is one of my favorite fights of all time, 'cause Mugabi was putting people in the hospital.

    22. TCTerence Crawford1:53:21

        That was tough.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:53:22

        Oh, my God, Mugabi hit-

    24. TCTerence Crawford1:53:23

        [chuckles]

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:53:23

        ... so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man, had a chin for hell. You know, f- Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles that i- like, they, they did a CAT scan on him, like a, a scan of his head. They said the ma- the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with headgear-

    26. TCTerence Crawford1:53:40

        [chuckles]

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:53:41

        ... or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece-

    28. TCTerence Crawford1:53:44

        Yeah

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:53:44

        ... for so long.

    30. TCTerence Crawford1:53:46

        Yeah. They were, "Argh!"

Episode duration: 2:10:42