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JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

Joe sits down with retired boxer Terence Crawford, a three-division undisputed champion who retired 42–0. https://www.youtube.com/@TBudCrawfordOfficial https://www.tbudcrawford.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Order ALDI on Uber Eats: https://earn.sng.link/A99vk/i2fm/okid

Joe RoganhostTerence Crawfordguest
Feb 25, 20262h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:02

    Intro

    1. JR

      [upbeat music]

  2. 0:02 – 2:08

    Crawford’s Canelo upset: size concerns vs “skills pay the bills”

    1. JR

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

    2. TC

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      [upbeat music] Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] All right, champ is here.

    4. TC

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Madravo fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight?

    6. TC

      Yeah, I believe so. I believe so.

    7. JR

      It was before that fight, and that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo, and everybody was like: "That's crazy! He's gonna go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that. That's nuts." Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now. [laughing]

    8. TC

      Yeah. Yeah. You know what I say, skills pay the bills.

    9. JR

      They do. They do. Skills are everything, man. Uh, but the thing is, it's like, it's interesting, I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madravo fight again recently, [mouth clicks] and Madravo looked bigger.

    10. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      He looked bigger than Canelo.

    12. TC

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      It was really interesting.

    14. TC

      He was a big dude, you know?

    15. JR

      He's a big dude.

    16. TC

      He's a big dude.

    17. JR

      I wonder what that guy walks around at, 'cause it's not 154.

    18. TC

      No, not at all.

    19. JR

      He's a big guy.

    20. TC

      I think he fought at 160 his last fight.

    21. JR

      Did he?

    22. TC

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Yeah. Really, a, an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, uh... Like I was saying, telling you before, it was a great I-told-you-so fight for me. 'Cause, uh, there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump, he's too experienced.

    24. TC

      [chuckles]

    25. JR

      But you got it.

    26. TC

      Yeah, it was-

    27. JR

      I mean, you made it look, I, I wanna say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive, you know? It was, it was such a clear victory. It was so- it was... At one point when you were pity-patting him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, "Oh, my goodness, he's feeling it!"

    28. TC

      Yeah, I was, I was in my element. I was in the zone, s- mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you know, telling me I was gonna get knocked out, I was too small, and I was just fighting for the money, when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, "I'm gonna t- I'm gonna show y'all what I'm really about," because this is not the first time that I done heard that, "Oh, he can't do this, he can't do that."

  3. 2:08 – 3:10

    Being judged by opponents: Roy Jones Jr. parallels and “tomato can” talk

    1. JR

      I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, "Roy Jones, other than James Toney, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody."

    2. TC

      Mm.

    3. JR

      And I, and I was like: No, he's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good.

    4. TC

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say, "These guys are awesome."

    6. TC

      For sure. For sure. And I, I've been dealing with that my whole career, you know, people getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out, you know, if they beat him. "Oh, such and such beat this guy." But me, it's, "Oh, you fighting tomato cans," or-

    7. JR

      [laughing]

    8. TC

      ... "You fighting bones," and things like that. So I was just like-

    9. JR

      It was just 'cause you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they, they try to find flaws in every great performance.

    10. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, "Yeah, but who are these guys that he beat?"

    12. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      But you beat great guys.

    14. TC

      Champions. [chuckles]

  4. 3:10 – 4:50

    The Benavidez fight: tension, injury excuses, and finding the late KO moment

    1. JR

      Yeah, I mean, listen, uh, one of the m- more interesting fights to me was the Benavidez fight. I, I re-watched that again recently, too.

    2. TC

      That was a good fight.

    3. JR

      Especially that... Whoo! 'Cause there was so much tension.

    4. TC

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      There was so much shit-talking and tension and so many emotions.

    6. TC

      And he can fight.

    7. JR

      He can fight.

    8. TC

      You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury, and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same, you know? So that's another thing that they're gonna say, "Oh, well, he had got shot in the leg, and if he didn't, then this would've happened or that would've happened." And I'm like, "He fought the same." Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that use his legs, uh, as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt and laugh at them.

    9. JR

      Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he, he fought the same, and he fought well.

    10. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      I mean, he's a tough guy. He, he fought really well, and-

    12. TC

      Took me 12 rounds.

    13. JR

      Yeah. Listen, and but, oof, that right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down, I was like, "Oh, my goodness!" I w- I remember watching that fight live. I was like, "Oh, there it is."

    14. TC

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      "There it is. You found him."

    16. TC

      Yeah, he, he had good head movement, you know, and-

    17. JR

      Tough guy

    18. TC

      ... he, he was, he was ducking them hooks and them straight, straight punches, so I was just like, "All right, I gotta switch it up."

    19. JR

      Well, also, he believed in himself.

    20. TC

      For sure. Definitely.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. TC

      Definitely.

    23. JR

      He came into that fight to win.

    24. TC

      Oh, definitely.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. TC

      Most definitely. Most definitely.

  5. 4:50 – 6:24

    Legacy stacking: Spence, casual fans, and the ‘Canelo is washed’ backlash

    1. JR

      Yeah. It's, uh, it's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve, because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set.

    2. TC

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      You know, the people inside boxing, the re- the, the people that really know boxing did, but I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit, and so the, the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae.

    4. TC

      Yeah. Yeah, it was, and even now, a lot of people saying, "Oh, well, Canelo's washed, he's old."

    5. JR

      [chuckles]

    6. TC

      And I'm like: Well, I'm older than him.

    7. JR

      [laughing]

    8. TC

      Like, what are we talking about, you know? So I just, I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on. You know, for everybody to already know what's, what, what happened, and then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened.

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. TC

      So I just be like, "Man, it's cool."

    11. JR

      That's boxing, though.

    12. TC

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Right? That's sports in general. You're always gonna have that. There's always gonna be a bunch of sideline people that talk-

    14. TC

      Mm-hmm

    15. JR

      ... a lot of shit. But, you know, for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficult-... difficulty s- signing big fights.

    16. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like, think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, "Oh, shit!"

    18. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      Like, I think he was, like, 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad, and a lot of people were saying, "He's washed up. He- it's over." And when he knocked out Trinidad-

    20. TC

      Mm-hmm

    21. JR

      ... everybody was like, "Oh, okay."

  6. 6:24 – 10:58

    Boxing politics: promoters, “side of the street,” and why big fights don’t happen

    1. TC

      Yeah. Yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning, you know? Um, they created a whole side of the street 'cause of me, you know, and I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now. All the promoters are working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way, and I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

    2. JR

      [lips smack] That's true. Yeah. It's a, it's a dirty business. You know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids certain fighters, it's, it's always been that way, you know? And it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many f- like, the big one for a long time was, uh, David Benavidez and Canelo.

    3. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      Like, everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you, you gotta think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavidez.

    5. TC

      Nah, not, not, not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavidez gonna come in the ring. You know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know, and I just think Canelo knows, like, "Why would I wanna get in the ring with this guy that's gonna be massive come fight time? And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills." Because, because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career-

    6. JR

      Yeah

    7. TC

      ... you know, and beating them with skill. You know, so you gotta tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished-

    8. JR

      Absolutely

    9. TC

      ... being 5'7", going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and, and actually winning and winning-

    10. JR

      Knocked out Kovalev.

    11. TC

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career-

    13. TC

      Yeah

    14. JR

      ... but it's still Kovalev.

    15. TC

      For sure. Yeah.

    16. JR

      And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime?

    17. TC

      For sure.

    18. JR

      I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight-

    19. TC

      Mm-hmm

    20. JR

      ... the Bivol fight. 'Cause I think after that fight, he's like, "Okay."

    21. TC

      Yeah, this dude is big. [chuckles]

    22. JR

      "This is a little big."

    23. TC

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      'Cause Bivol, not just big, but he's got that Russian style, light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out.

    25. TC

      Good boxer.

    26. JR

      It's a difficult style to handle.

    27. TC

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      You know? And the, like, the only guy to beat Beterbiev-

    29. TC

      Mm-hmm

    30. JR

      ... was, uh, another beast.

  7. 10:58 – 15:02

    How Crawford solved Canelo: counters, confidence, and reading earlier fights

    1. JR

      And whew, he just... There was, there was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it, before you even brought the hand back.

    2. TC

      Mm.

    3. JR

      So he was going to counter, and you were throwing a quick hook.

    4. TC

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      I was like, "Oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty."

    6. TC

      Trying to catch him on the counter.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. TC

      You know, Canelo is a great counter-puncher, you know, so you gotta beat him to it. You gotta counter the counter at times.

    9. JR

      Did that fight play out the way you thought it was gonna play out?

    10. TC

      Yeah, most definitely.

    11. JR

      Exactly the way you thought it?

    12. TC

      Yeah, most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know, um, when I went to his fight against Berlenka and against, um, the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name. Munguia. Munguia. When I was with Turkey, I said, "Turkey, he can't beat me." Just watching him from 135 to now, like, live, I'm looking at him, I'm just like, "I can beat this dude." Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, "Mm-... yeah, he can't fight like that against me. Which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was gonna stop me from getting that victory that night.

    13. JR

      The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked, like, under-motivated.

    14. TC

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Like it wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like-

    16. TC

      Yeah

    17. JR

      ... when you look at him.

    18. TC

      He wasn't, you know, uh, and that, and it happens, you know? That's why I always train like this is the toughest fight of my career, 'cause it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about, quote.

    19. JR

      Right.

    20. TC

      You know?

    21. JR

      Right, right, right.

    22. TC

      Them be the, the ones that sneak up on you, and, you know, you gotta be ready for 'em. But he didn't come to fight. He moved the whole fight, and, you know, Canelo was frustrated, and he was just like, "Ah, man, this dude didn't come to do anything."

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. TC

      You know?

    25. JR

      He came to survive.

    26. TC

      Yeah, so I could see where he was frustrated at.

    27. JR

      Yeah. Well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either, right?

    28. TC

      Right.

    29. JR

      You know, so he probably said, "Listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good."

    30. TC

      Yeah.

  8. 15:02 – 18:43

    Retiring on top: motivation, health, and resisting the comeback trap

    1. JR

      Oh, you absolutely did. Now you definitely done, done?

    2. TC

      [chuckles] It's over with.

    3. JR

      It's definitely over?

    4. TC

      Yeah. I don't got n- so I told, I told a co- couple of my close friends, I said, "Okay, since 2014, I've been fighting for something: a title." I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, undisputed titles, undisputed, undisputed titles, undisputed, like, just everything that I've been fighting for. Now I just come back, and it's just like, all right, well, what's the motivation? Just money? You know, like, all right, so what, what is it on top of that? You know, because my, my thing was, the money gonna come. You know, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be when I finished boxing. I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you know, and I think I, I did that. You know, so now it's like, this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no better finish than that, to me.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. TC

      What, what was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that was stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through in camp, in camp to get to that fight, you know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what, what can top that?

    7. JR

      I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for, for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in, undefeated, and beat Canelo, another all-time great-

    8. TC

      Mm

    9. JR

      ... I mean, that is, that is a perfect finale-

    10. TC

      Yeah

    11. JR

      ... for a spectacular career. That's pretty dope.

    12. TC

      For sure.

    13. JR

      And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice.

    14. TC

      It's, it's, it's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters endure to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot. You know, we put our body through a lot, and then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourself, they don't care about us.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. TC

      They gonna say, "Oh, well, he was once a good champion." And we go to the fights, you see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk past them.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. TC

      You know? They on to the next. "Oh, let's see the young fighter," you know, and it's like they use you up till you have nothing left, then they forget about you.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. TC

      You know, so it's, it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first, because once it's, once it's over with, it's over with, and you can't, you can't get your health back.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. TC

      You can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't-... your mind is messed up-

    23. JR

      Yeah

    24. TC

      It's over with.

    25. JR

      That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too. To see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out on top, and done.

    26. TC

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting, they go, "Man, I think I got one more in me." And then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit.

    28. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      That's the real problem.

    30. TC

      Yeah.

  9. 18:43 – 20:32

    Low-key lifestyle and media avoidance: the Kendrick Lamar mix-up and entourage costs

    1. TC

      It's, it's always gonna be that, you know, "I got, I got another one in me. I got another one in me," because they miss that, that high of all the fans chanting their name, and everybody, you know, cameras, lights, and, you know, they, they miss it, you know? But I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. I-

    2. JR

      Really?

    3. TC

      Y'all can have the lights. Just, just pay me and I go under the rock somewhere-

    4. JR

      [laughing]

    5. TC

      ... you know, take care of my family, you know. I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

    6. JR

      How come?

    7. TC

      'Cause that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. You know, I be under the radar.

    8. JR

      I do like that you show up by yourself.

    9. TC

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      But one time, you showed up at one of the UFCs, and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar, and they put it on the fucking screen. [chuckles]

    11. TC

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      And I didn't catch it, 'cause I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, "Are you guys out of your fuckin'-"

    13. TC

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      "You don't know who Terence Crawford is, and you're in combat sports?"

    15. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      This is crazy.

    17. TC

      I think they did that on purpose.

    18. JR

      No.

    19. TC

      [laughing]

    20. JR

      No way. No way.

    21. TC

      They had to.

    22. JR

      No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron in the truck.

    23. TC

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah, no, 100%, they did not do that on purpose.

    25. TC

      Right.

    26. JR

      No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that.

    27. TC

      Right.

    28. JR

      No one would disrespect you like that, no chance.

    29. TC

      Yeah, I was sitting next to Terry, by, and I was like, "Did they really just do that?"

    30. JR

      No, they-

  10. 20:32 – 22:46

    Ad read break (Uber Eats / ALDI)

    1. JR

      This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news, ALDI is now on Uber Eats, and you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code NEWALDI26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first ALDI order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28. Terms apply. See app for details. But that's- you roll very low-key. Like, you don't show up with an entourage, you know? A lot of times, you're just by yourself.

    2. TC

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      You know, and that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved. You know?

    4. TC

      Yeah, people be so, like, surprised that... You know, they'll see me in the airport, and they'll be like, "You by yourself?" [laughing] I'm like, "Yeah." They're like, "Man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage."

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. TC

      I'm like, "Nah, man, that's just a bill."

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. TC

      'Cause you know, you gotta pay all them people to be around you.

    9. JR

      That's true, too.

    10. TC

      So, you know-

    11. JR

      Yeah

    12. TC

      ... I just be chilling.

    13. JR

      Yeah, I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself.

    14. TC

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Yeah. I mean, it's a, that's another good example for young fighters to realize, like, at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? You know, all that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's... It's very temporary. It's very fleeting.

    16. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      It goes away. Legacy. Legacy and the glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever, and the respect of people in boxing that really know.

    18. TC

      Yeah, for sure.

    19. JR

      Yeah, that's what, that's what it's all about, and you've got that. Now everybody has to shut the fuck up.

    20. TC

      Yeah, they do.

    21. JR

      Everybody has to shut the fuck up, even the people that said that, "Oh, Canelo's... " Stop. You were the same people saying Canelo was gonna stop him.

    22. TC

      Yeah, the same people that saying Errol Spence was gonna stop me, the same people that saying Maidana was gonna stop me-

    23. JR

      Yep

    24. TC

      ... and so forth. So it just got to the point where they just, they can't- they gotta accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just been proving me wrong time after time. It's like, let me just give him his flowers.

    25. JR

      Yes.

    26. TC

      Forget it, you know?

  11. 22:46 – 25:58

    Switch-hitting mastery: training stance changes and why it breaks opponents

    1. JR

      That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, and does it perfectly, and does it in a way that is very unusual. Because, like, you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best.

    2. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      You know, and, like, that, God, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny, one of the times you were in here, you were telling me that his coach- your coach told you to stop doing that. [laughing]

    4. TC

      Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, "You need to focus more on fighting orthodox, the right way, instead of switching to southpaw." I was just like, "All right, switch southpaw again." Then it was just like, he was like, "All right, well, if you gonna do that, we're gonna train like that." I was like, "All right, let's train like it," [chuckles] 'cause I'm gonna keep switching, 'cause it just ca- came so natural.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. TC

      I be in there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then they'll just- I'll just switch, like, unthinkingly. Bah, bah, bah.

    7. JR

      Yes.

    8. TC

      Man, you know, it was just, I win and I win. He was like, "All right, we gonna fight like... We gonna train like that."

    9. JR

      Well, it's such a underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it, because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch.

    10. TC

      Different angles, all that.

    11. JR

      In MMA, it's become commonplace.

    12. TC

      Mm.

    13. JR

      In, in the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other, and now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching, because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques.

    14. TC

      Mm.

    15. JR

      There's so many different things you could do in MMA off of switch- 'cause you're switching and kicking-

    16. TC

      Mm-hmm

    17. JR

      ... you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in southpaw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. It's like things are come- there's so much overload of the mind, where you have to calculate all these different things, and if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up-

    18. TC

      Yeah

    19. JR

      ... inside the cage.

    20. TC

      Yeah, because some people, they have better-... chances on one side than the other, you know? And then when you switch on them, it's just like, "Oh, f- I hate fighting southpaws."

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. TC

      You know, it just do something to their brain-

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm

    24. TC

      ... you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

    25. JR

      Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and the left-

    26. TC

      Yeah

    27. JR

      ... and then y- y- your, your brain has to, like-

    28. TC

      You gotta worry about the hook now-

    29. JR

      Yeah

    30. TC

      ... instead of the straight.

  12. 25:58 – 31:47

    Coaching next generation and fatherhood: patience, gym mentorship, and his son’s wrestling goals

    1. JR

      Yeah. Do you think you're gonna train people when you're done? [chuckles]

    2. TC

      [chuckles] I'll be training a little bit. I'll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. TC

      Like, I get frustrated, and I have to remember, like my coach, Bomac, say, "Everybody's not you, bud."

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. TC

      You know, everybody don't adapt like you, everybody not as athletic like you, you know? So you can't be frustrated if they not getting something-

    7. JR

      Right

    8. TC

      ... like, as fast as you getting it. You've been doing this since you were seven, and some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you gotta give them grace, you know, and take your time with them. And some of them, you know, they flat-footed, and you just gotta train them into their style. Everybody not gonna have your style. So when he explained that to me, I was just like, "Yeah, you're right." [chuckles] You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see-

    9. JR

      Yeah

    10. TC

      ... you know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be.

    11. JR

      Being a version of you.

    12. TC

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Yeah. That's gotta be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style.

    14. TC

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      And, you know, you're, y- you're never gonna convince some fighters to fight your way.

    16. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      Yeah. But, uh, the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like, there's a lot of great fighters like, you know, Freddie Roach, that had some boxing matches but was never, like, an elite boxer-

    18. TC

      Yeah

    19. JR

      ... but still was a great coach. And, but to have an elite fighter to be a coach, it's like there's an element of that... First of all, you- is it- there's an element from the young guy coming up, like, you wanna impress.

    20. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      If you got Terence Crawford-

    22. TC

      Yeah

    23. JR

      ... in your corner-

    24. TC

      Yeah

    25. JR

      ... you wanna impress him. Buddy McGirt did a fantastic job, and he became a great trainer. There's a, a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder, because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young g- there's so much small, minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on, that w- would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges.

    26. TC

      Mm. Yeah, for sure, and I try to help them on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the bag or when they hitting the mitts, shadow boxing, just little details. You know, I come in the gym, and you see the little kids, they see me, and they look, look to the corner, and they hit the bag, "Ah!"

    27. JR

      Yeah, they get fired up.

    28. TC

      You can see they trying to get my attention. I come over there and give them some little wisdom, you know, and they appreciate it.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. TC

      But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my, my son wrestling next door, and they over here boxing, and I'm both, one side and the other side, so it's good.

  13. 31:47 – 42:49

    Modern boxing debates: “boring” boxing, Shakur’s artistry, Ryan Garcia, and PED fallout

    1. JR

      Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you, you're legitimately putting your life on the line.

    2. TC

      Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that until something happen.

    3. JR

      Right.

    4. TC

      You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have went in the ring one way and left it a different way.

    5. JR

      Yes.

    6. TC

      You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers for doing what the sport is for, and that's boxing. You know, us boxers, like, [chuckles] you're not in here getting your brains beat out.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. TC

      So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do-

    9. JR

      Right

    10. TC

      ... is box.

    11. JR

      Right.

    12. TC

      You know, and I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters they just due for boxing. You know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers.

    13. JR

      Yes.

    14. TC

      You know, they wanna see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know, but they not thinking about the aftermath and the after effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, uh, piss and blood, and things like that.

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. TC

      Like, your body is not meant to be beat on like that.

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. TC

      You know, so they just looking at, "Oh, well, I paid this money. Y'all gonna go in there and kill each other," you know, and I think that's wrong.

    19. JR

      Yeah. Well, you're always gonna have morons in this world.

    20. TC

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      You're always gonna have casuals. You're always gonna have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But, like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Teofimo, that last fight-

    22. TC

      Mm-hmm

    23. JR

      ... like, that was art.

    24. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      That was art. That sneaky jab-

    26. TC

      Yeah

    27. JR

      ... where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab, and you could see Lo- Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it.

    28. TC

      Nope.

    29. JR

      He didn't know what to do. It was beautiful. It was b- he barely got hit.

    30. TC

      Yeah.

  14. 42:49 – 54:36

    Weight cutting realities: Crawford’s toughest cuts, MMA extremes, and fixing weight classes

    1. JR

      They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut?

    2. TC

      ... the most I ever had to cut was probably, like, 25.

    3. JR

      Whew! That's a lot.

    4. TC

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      What weight was that, 35 or 40?

    6. TC

      47.

    7. JR

      47, really?

    8. TC

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Wow.

    10. TC

      My last fight with Spence.

    11. JR

      And when did you start your cut?

    12. TC

      Whew, months.

    13. JR

      Months out?

    14. TC

      Yeah, months out.

    15. JR

      So the week of the fight, what were you at?

    16. TC

      Probably, like, 152, 54.

    17. JR

      Oh, okay.

    18. TC

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      That's very good.

    20. TC

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.

    22. TC

      But it was, them last couple of pounds is tough.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. TC

      Them last couple of pounds are tough, and I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know? But the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was, like, killing me.

    25. JR

      What were you walking around at back then?

    26. TC

      Probably, like, in the 50s.

    27. JR

      Mm.

    28. TC

      Like, 55.

    29. JR

      And, and so would you just lower your calories in camp, in camp and then-

    30. TC

      Everything.

  15. 54:36 – 1:12:27

    Money, promoters, and fighter leverage: UFC monopoly vs boxing competition

    1. TC

      I think it, these combat sports, it gotta come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing, I think if the, if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, "Oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power."

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. TC

      You know, but they can't cut the check without us.... mm-hmm, you know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. TC

      Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something, but the fighters that doesn't, they like, "Well, you can do that. I gotta provide for my family. You can take a, a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's gonna last, but who gonna pay my bills?

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. TC

      Who gonna put food on my family table while we doing this, while we making this stand?"

    8. JR

      Right, right.

    9. TC

      So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established.

    10. JR

      Yes.

    11. TC

      You know, and I think that's where, you know, the, the seesaw effect happens with, with boxing and UFC, because there's a lot-

    12. JR

      Well, UFC is more extreme, because it's really just the UFC.

    13. TC

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      It's really... I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA, UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed, and he winds up leaving, and he goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching.

    15. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      Nobody watches. Nobody cares. He, he knocked out some dude in the PFL, and nobody cared.

    17. TC

      Is he making more money?

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. TC

      He care. [chuckles]

    20. JR

      He cares. Well, that's why he did it.

    21. TC

      Yeah, that's, that's all that matters.

    22. JR

      He maybe got a great, a great deal with the PFL, and then he got to box, box Tyson Fury-

    23. TC

      Yeah

    24. JR

      ... boxed Anthony Joshua.

    25. TC

      Doing well.

    26. JR

      Doing well.

    27. TC

      Doing well.

    28. JR

      Much, much more money, for sure-

    29. TC

      Doing well

    30. JR

      ... which is good, but the, the, the fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed.

  16. 1:12:27 – 2:10:42

    Canelo camp details: shoulder surgery, strength work, and why the rematch talk is “internet bullshit”

    1. JR

      ... 'cause I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this, when you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So knowing that you're gonna be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what, what did you do different in, in terms of... Did you do anything different in far of, about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare...? Like, I know you were thinking about that fight-

    2. TC

      Mm

    3. JR

      ... for a long time, but, like, when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you were gonna be fighting him at 68, what did you do different?

    4. TC

      To be honest, I didn't do nothing different.

    5. JR

      Really?

    6. TC

      It's crazy. Like, all my fights, there's nothing different. You know, we training for me, me getting sharper, what I need to work on, what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my strength and conditioning coach, he got me in February. He called me up, he like, "Hey-... we gonna get this fight. He just kept saying, "We gonna get it, so you need to be working out now." So this way before I ever got the Canelo fight, so I'm like, "All right, so you come over to my house. We'll work out, we'll work out, we'll work out."

    7. JR

      What kind of stuff were you doing?

    8. TC

      Just strength work, just strength work.

    9. JR

      Like deadlifts, like what kind of stuff?

    10. TC

      Yeah, deadlifts, strength condition, like deadlifts, working on good legs and things like that, and just getting my body just, you know, back to where it need to be, you know? And, um, he just like, "Man, you gotta strengthen up your shoulders and things like that." And, 'cause quiet as kept, I had just had shoulder surgery.

    11. JR

      You did?

    12. TC

      Yeah. So I just... You know, it- there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse. You know, um, that's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of, but yeah, and he was just like, "Man, we gotta work. We gotta work," so-

    13. JR

      What was the shoulder injury?

    14. TC

      Labrum.

    15. JR

      Labrum?

    16. TC

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Yeah. So did you get it sewed back up?

    18. TC

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Did you get stem cells shot in there at all?

    20. TC

      Nah, nah, nah.

    21. JR

      No?

    22. TC

      I just had surgery on-

    23. JR

      Oh, man, I wish I'd talked to you

    24. TC

      ... the front and the back.

    25. JR

      I wish I'd talked to you about that.

    26. TC

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Could've got you in.

    28. TC

      Yeah, I didn't get, I, I didn't get it on my left shoulder, so I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in the Gamboa, uh, fight.

    29. JR

      Really?

    30. TC

      Yeah.

  17. 1:53:47 – 2:10:42

    Training science and great coaching: rest days, monitoring, and what fans never see

    1. JR

      But I love watching those old-school training footage videos. Like, there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains, and hitting the bag, and, and training, and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that, just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight.

    2. TC

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      'Cause I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, until you're finally in the ring. Like, the ring is almost the easy part.

    4. TC

      Easiest. It's tough. [chuckles] It's like, you know, when, when we in Colorado and we gotta run the mountain, like, sometimes I'll be like, "Man, I ain't running this motherfucker."

    5. JR

      [laughing]

    6. TC

      "Like, I don't care, like..." And then he'd be like, "You gonna get your ass whooped. You better get your ass up." And, or Bo would come in there and be like, "Let's go." I'd be like, "Man, Bo, I..." "Let's go!" "I don't..." [laughing] Bo got this saying. Anytime I'm giving him some push, he'd be like, "I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go." I'd be like, [exhales]

    7. JR

      That's great to have someone with you like that.

    8. TC

      Hey, right. I'm like, "Here we go." But once-

    9. JR

      He's been with you from the beginning?

    10. TC

      From the, from the start.

    11. JR

      That's so big, too.

    12. TC

      And it... And it's crazy, because the days that I don't wanna do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best, you know? And-

    13. JR

      'Cause you conquered that inner bitch.

    14. TC

      Yes. Yeah.

    15. JR

      That thing inside you that wants to not do it.

    16. TC

      Yeah, Steven say-

    17. JR

      Like, "I'm the fucking man."

    18. TC

      Yeah, Steven be like... He was like, "When you don't wanna do something, it's like you trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you're trying to do it fast." So, like, my best times is when I don't wanna do it.

    19. JR

      [laughing]

    20. TC

      Like, my best sparring is when I don't wanna spar, 'cause it's like... I'm like, "All right, I'm gonna fuck you up, 'cause I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit."

    21. JR

      [laughing]

    22. TC

      "You know, I don't wanna get hit."

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. TC

      You know? So it's like, your best days is when you don't wanna do it.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. TC

      You know, that's when I perform the best in the, in the, in the gym, and stuff like that. So yeah, man, a lot of, a lot of young fighters, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work. You know, they like, "Man, you train too hard." [chuckles] I'm like, "Ain't no such thing." You know, Tim Bradley told me, "Hey, man, you gotta rest. You gotta s- [laughing] gotta chill out."

    27. JR

      [laughing]

    28. TC

      Andre Ward, "Man, you gotta, you gotta rest," you know? And-... these last two training camps, I took on their advice and took just a day off, like, in a week. Like, every week, instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off just not doing nothing, and it helped me tremendously on my recovery.

    29. JR

      Really?

    30. TC

      'Cause I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'd do the incline. We'd just do the incline, that's it, in the morning, early in the morning, and then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, "No, you gotta just take the whole day off, not doing nothing, and just recover." And as you get-- as I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took that advice, and it's just like, man. I'm like, "Man, I could've did this years ago," right? [laughing] I was, I was, I was just so, like, locked in, like-

Episode duration: 2:10:42

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