The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #19 with Vinny Shoreman & Liam Harrison
CHAPTERS
- 0:04 – 0:48
Why Muay Thai still hasn’t exploded in America
Joe opens by arguing that Muay Thai is the most exciting striking sport, yet it remains underappreciated in the U.S. Liam and Vinny discuss why MMA has helped, but Muay Thai still lags behind mainstream visibility.
- •Muay Thai seen as a ‘pinnacle’ striking sport compared to boxing
- •Despite MMA crossover, U.S. popularity still limited
- •Liam contrasts Muay Thai’s difficulty with pro boxing experience
- •Initial thoughts on what turns casual viewers away
- 0:48 – 2:35
Traditions, pacing, and the Wai Kru: barrier or feature?
The group breaks down the ceremonial elements of Muay Thai—music, the Wai Kru/Ram Muay, and the Mongkol—and debates whether those traditions hurt TV appeal. Liam notes some UK shows are removing pageantry to be more “fan friendly.”
- •Two-minute breaks and traditional music may deter casual fans
- •Explanation of Wai Kru/Ram Muay and Mongkol headband
- •Respect rituals, Buddhism, and mental preparation aspects
- •Promoters cutting runway/ceremony for faster broadcasts
- 2:35 – 4:11
Fight volume in Thailand vs the West (108 fights vs 300+)
Joe reacts to Liam’s 108-fight career and the reality that Thai fighters often have 200–300+ bouts. They explain the economic and cultural reasons Thais fight extremely often, sometimes weekly, as a livelihood.
- •Thai fighters may have 100 fights by age 15
- •Fighting frequency driven by economics: ‘if you don’t fight, you don’t eat’
- •Westerners’ fight counts look small by comparison
- •Thailand’s system produces deep experience early
- 4:11 – 5:11
Europe’s Muay Thai scene, match-making, and promotions (Yokkao, Lion Fight)
Liam and Vinny describe Europe’s thriving weekend show circuit and why it’s more developed than the U.S. They praise strong matchmaking (especially Yokkao) and criticize mismatches that can happen when elite Thais fight novices abroad.
- •Europe hosts large shows regularly; U.S. has fewer outlets
- •Lion Fight mentioned as a key American promotion
- •Mismatch risks: debut pros vs veterans with hundreds of fights
- •Yokkao credited for consistent competitive matchmaking
- 5:11 – 6:28
Commentary career and the business of presenting fights
Vinny talks about his commentary history (It’s Showtime!, Yokkao, Enfusion/Glory era) and how presentation affects growth. Joe brainstorms what would make Muay Thai catch on in America, emphasizing elbows, clinch, trips, and sweeps.
- •Vinny’s path from It’s Showtime! to Yokkao/Enfusion work
- •Kickboxing vs Muay Thai ruleset differences (sweeps/trips removed)
- •Joe’s ‘how do we market this?’ thought experiments
- •Importance of production choices and storytelling
- 6:28 – 9:36
Liam’s fan-friendly style and what makes fights TV-ready
They joke about Vinny’s bias toward Liam and then get serious about what draws viewers: action, intensity, and selecting the right fights. Joe argues networks could sell Muay Thai as the ‘most dangerous strikers on earth.’
- •Liam’s ‘crash-bang-wallop’ approach as a gateway style
- •Curating fights for TV rather than airing uneven cards live
- •Muay Thai’s full toolkit: leg kicks, knees, elbows, clinch throws
- •Entertainment value vs point-fighting tradeoffs
- 9:36 – 12:08
Wild Card Gym stories, boxing fandom, and meeting Freddie Roach
The conversation pivots into boxing travel stories: trying (and failing) to meet GGG, and meeting Freddie Roach at Wild Card. They highlight Roach’s kindness, curiosity, and the toll of fighting (trauma-related Parkinson’s).
- •GGG ‘fan-girl’ stalking story at Big Bear restaurant
- •Freddie Roach’s generosity and authenticity at Wild Card
- •Roach’s health issues and fighter/coach wear-and-tear
- •How legends treat visitors vs celebrity stereotypes
- 12:08 – 14:33
Seminars in America: physical Muay Thai + NLP/hypnosis mindset coaching
Liam explains the Fire & Fury Focus seminars: Vinny primes students mentally, then Liam teaches techniques. Joe and Liam admit they were skeptical of hypnosis until experiencing it firsthand, reframing it as guided focus rather than ‘mind control.’
- •Seminar structure: NLP/hypnotic language + Muay Thai mechanics
- •Hypnosis described as a cooperative, aware mental state
- •Goal: put people into a ‘learning state’ and build confidence
- •Mind training positioned as performance preparation
- 14:33 – 22:55
Hakalau, anchoring, and the ‘Warrior’ keyword—mindset in big fights
Vinny details Hakalau (expanded peripheral awareness) and anchoring states (e.g., glove press). Liam shares the origin story: losing badly to Anawat, then using Vinny’s methods for the rematch and entering a near-unbreakable flow state—despite later discovering he’d suffered a concussion.
- •Hakalau: widening awareness by reducing mental ‘chatter’
- •Anchoring: linking physical cues (gloves) to peak mental state
- •Anawat rematch: ‘Warrior’ cue and a radically different performance
- •Flow-state fighting contrasted with post-fight concussion collapse
- 22:55 – 29:43
Training like a Thai: Thailand camp life vs the modern ‘Bad Company’ stable
Liam describes living in a Thai gym for 18 months: twice-daily training, three-hour sessions, clinch torture, and relentless conditioning. He contrasts that with the current UK scene where elite partners and coaching at Bad Company allow world-class preparation without living abroad full-time.
- •Thai schedule: morning run/pads + intense afternoon 3-hour block
- •Clinch strength and volume as a defining Thai advantage
- •Rise of UK/European gyms producing Thai-level training partners
- •Strength & conditioning as a modern evolution (CrossFit/Metafit influence)
- 29:43 – 38:02
Weight cuts, calories, and recovery tools (cryotherapy, CBD, hair tests)
They get practical about diet: Liam now cuts less weight, keeps carbs due to huge training output, and manages energy around PT work. The talk expands into recovery methods—cryotherapy, sensory deprivation tanks, CBD—and skepticism about hair-follicle nutrition testing.
- •Smaller weight cuts with age; avoiding sauna-heavy depletion
- •High-volume training supports carbs (porridge, rice)
- •Recovery stack: cryo, float tanks, topical CBD for inflammation
- •Questionable ‘hair follicle’ food sensitivity tests discussed
- 38:02 – 1:15:56
Natural talent, youth development, and kids fighting (no head contact)
Joe, Liam, and Vinny discuss what ‘natural talent’ looks like in striking, from prodigy kids to UFC’s Darren Till. They also debate youth Muay Thai, explaining junior rules that remove head contact and how structured classes build confidence and technical skill early.
- •Darren Till’s early Muay Thai talent and fearless mindset
- •Talent vs work ethic: gifted athletes often quit when it gets hard
- •Junior Muay Thai circuit: body/leg only, no head kicks or punches
- •Bad Company’s kids program: large classes, tiers, and mentorship
- 1:15:56 – 1:50:20
Legend talk: Saenchai’s artistry, gambling influence, and Thailand realities
Liam describes fighting Saenchai—accuracy, creativity, and pace changes that feel supernatural. The conversation widens to Thailand’s gambling ecosystem, weight advantages to attract bets, and darker stories like alleged drink tampering or fight fixing (with caveats).
- •Saenchai as a silhouette-recognizable ‘artist’ with unique movement
- •High-level pacing: recovering instantly and overwhelming opponents late
- •Gambling shapes matchups, weight concessions, and judging incentives
- •Rumors of poisoning/throwing fights; stadium bans as deterrence
