JRE MMA Show #19 with Vinny Shoreman & Liam Harrison

1. 0:04 – 0:48

   Why Muay Thai still hasn’t exploded in America

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      Boom, and we're live with my pal Vinnie Shearman and eight-time world Muay Thai champion Liam Harrison.

   2. LHLiam Harrison0:10

      Ah, thank you very much. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Fuck yeah, dude.

   4. LHLiam Harrison0:12

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Great to be here. Great to see you guys too.

   6. VSVinny Shoreman0:13

      Yeah, we love it.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Um, listen man, I'm a, I'm a big fan of all combat sports but I really believe that if there's one sport that doesn't get its due, it's Muay Thai. I really don't understand-

   8. VSVinny Shoreman0:23

      Anyway.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      ... why it hasn't taken off in America. I, I don't get it. I love boxing. Boxing's a lot of fun. I think Muay Thai is twice as fun.

   10. LHLiam Harrison0:31

       Yeah, it's twice as hard as well, I think. I mean, I fought pro boxing and I've had over a hundred Muay Thai fights. It's definitely a lot harder. I mean, it is getting more mainstream now along with the MMA because most of the top MMA fighters are doing Muay Thai for the standup, but it's still not where it needs to be-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Yeah, it's-

   12. LHLiam Harrison0:46

       Nowhere near.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       ... it's weird, right?

2. 0:48 – 2:35

   Traditions, pacing, and the Wai Kru: barrier or feature?

   1. VSVinny Shoreman0:48

      Yeah, I mean, (sighs) I think what puts a lot of people off, uh, Muay Thai is the, uh, maybe the two-minute break and also the, the-

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:57

      Two-minute break in between rounds?

   3. VSVinny Shoreman0:58

      Yeah.

   4. LHLiam Harrison0:58

      Yeah.

   5. VSVinny Shoreman0:58

      And the traditional music and stuff like that. People find that hard to take too really, which is... Uh, I mean, I love it, so I don't see that problem but I can see outside the box with that as well, so...

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:08

      Well, I feel like the two-minute break gives guys more of a chance to recover-

   7. VSVinny Shoreman1:11

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:11

      ... which makes the fights more exciting. You have more energy. And, uh, I don't care about the, the dance, the white crew. That doesn't bother me.

   9. VSVinny Shoreman1:18

      Yeah, but you're a fan, aren't ya? You're a martial arts fan. I mean, to sit down and watch with beers and...

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       I am, but watch baseball.

   11. VSVinny Shoreman1:22

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       Baseball is so fucking boring.

   13. LHLiam Harrison1:23

       Yeah, exactly.

   14. VSVinny Shoreman1:24

       Grounders. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       It's crazy how boring it is.

   16. LHLiam Harrison1:26

       A lot of shows in England now, they've started to cut out the, all the traditional stuff. There's no runway, no white crew.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Right.

   18. LHLiam Harrison1:31

       You get in the ring, you face off. Bell goes, go straight away. So they're trying to cut little aspects of it out just to make it more media fr- uh, fan, fan friendly really.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Yeah. We should probably explain to people that don't know what we're talking about though. The, the dance that they do, it's called the white crew, right?

   20. VSVinny Shoreman1:45

       Yeah, the rum white.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       And it's, what's, what is the headband they put on? What is that?

   22. LHLiam Harrison1:49

       The mongkong.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       That's the mongkong.

   24. LHLiam Harrison1:51

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       And when you're doing the dance, the idea is like to warm up?

   26. VSVinny Shoreman1:56

       Yeah, there's, there's lots of different rea- lots of different reasons why. There's different camps believe different things. It's to do, mainly to do with Buddhism. You're seen in the ring and then taking, uh, you know, paying respect to your gym, your, your, your coaches, your parents et cetera, isn't it, Liam?

   27. LHLiam Harrison2:09

       Yeah, I mean, I, I enjoy doing it. It, it sort of prepares me mentally for what's about to happen. Um, I've done it in nearly all my 108 fights. Only the odd one or two where I've missed it when that's only been because I've been told by the promoters, "Right, no runway." I enjoy doing it, but like Vinnie said, like some people who come and watch it, they just wanna see fights. They don't wanna see that aspect of the sport as well. They just wanna see people getting torn up.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:31

       And in case anybody didn't catch that through that dense accent, he just said-

3. 2:35 – 4:11

   Fight volume in Thailand vs the West (108 fights vs 300+)

   1. LHLiam Harrison2:35

      (laughs)

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:35

      ... 108 fights. That's fucking crazy, man.

   3. LHLiam Harrison2:39

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      That's a lot of fights.

   5. LHLiam Harrison2:39

      It is for a westerner, but like a lot of the Thais I'm coming across, they're all 200, 300 plus. I remember last year I fought a Thai and, um, they said, "Oh, Liam's had 100 fights. That is a lot. What do you think?" And he said, "I'd 100 fights when I was 15 years old." (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:55

      Wow.

   7. LHLiam Harrison2:56

      So... (laughs) Yeah. Uh, that was Singdhammo who said that about me, so yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      A hundred fights when he was 15. How are it even possible?

   9. LHLiam Harrison3:00

      I'm not sure.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       They must have been fighting every week.

   11. VSVinny Shoreman3:02

       They fight every week, don't they? Just...

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       Yeah, 52 weeks a year.

   13. VSVinny Shoreman3:04

       Well, it's a li- it's a living, isn't it? So-

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Yeah.

   15. VSVinny Shoreman3:06

       ... you know, if they don't eat, they don't... In Thailand, if you don't fight, you don't eat, so see ya. There's no welfare or anything like that, so they have to do that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       I had, uh, former UFC, uh, champion Pat Miletich in yesterday and we were talking about Muay Thai and how crazy it is that this one place, Thailand, developed this completely effective style. Like, they changed the way people fight.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman3:27

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:27

       I mean, they really did.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman3:28

       Yeah, they did.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       You look at all the other martial arts, whether it's karate or kung fu or anything else, like, they figured it out.

   21. LHLiam Harrison3:33

       Yeah, without a doubt. Um, but what's happening now is as well, the westerners are starting to catch them up now. I mean, remember when the first time I went to Thailand, not many people were going and, um, not many people knew about fighting that Thai way. More and more westerners now are going to live there. They're staying there for long periods of time. They're getting it down and we now can compete with the top level Thais now.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       Wow.

   23. LHLiam Harrison3:53

       Before, like back in the day, there might have been like only Ramon Dekker, Danny Beal, obviously John Winpa, them guys who could really do it-

   24. VSVinny Shoreman3:59

       Yeah, Ronnie Green as well from England.

   25. LHLiam Harrison4:00

       From... Yeah, Ronnie Green from England.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       Right, right.

   27. LHLiam Harrison4:01

       But now there's a lot, a lot, especially around Europe, French fighters, top level, British guys. We've got Danny McGowan in England, he's doing it. I mean, we are starting to really compete with people on top, top level now.

4. 4:11 – 5:11

   Europe’s Muay Thai scene, match-making, and promotions (Yokkao, Lion Fight)

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:11

      Is Muay Thai more popular in Europe than it is in America?

   2. LHLiam Harrison4:14

      Yeah, there's massive shows on in Europe every weekend.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:17

      Really?

   4. LHLiam Harrison4:17

      I mean, in, in America, there's like, the main one's Lion Fight. Um-

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:21

      Yeah.

   6. LHLiam Harrison4:21

      We've got like two or three huge promotions in England now, Yokko, um, there's Tankor. The French, they have massive shows on every weekend with top, top level fighters on. Um, all over Poland and every- everywhere. It is getting, it is getting huge.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:36

      I'm a big fan of Lion Fight but it seems to me that there's a lot of times where these guys come over and they're fighting someone that really doesn't belong in there with them. And you get to see like Allard Zilla or someone like that.

   8. LHLiam Harrison4:46

      That would be absolutely ridiculous.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:47

      That fight is crazy.

   10. LHLiam Harrison4:48

       The guy's first fight against a guy who's had 400 fights.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       Yeah.

   12. LHLiam Harrison4:50

       Like, one of the best Thai champions of this era he were.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Yeah, and his first ever professional Muay Thai fight he got his guy ripped off.

   14. LHLiam Harrison4:56

       And look what happened, he got his, got his head ripped off.

   15. VSVinny Shoreman4:56

       Well, that's-

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       Yeah.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman4:57

       ... that's the difference between Yokko and everything else, you know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       Mm-hmm.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman4:59

       Um, they do it in such a way that the, the, the matchmaking, Brian Calder, who does our matchmaking, our friend, um... The, the, the fights are like really, really... always, always competitive, which I really enjoy. And-

5. 5:11 – 6:28

   Commentary career and the business of presenting fights

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:11

      And you've been doing commentary for them for how long?

   2. VSVinny Shoreman5:13

      I've been doing commentary for Yokko since 2011. I met Stefania in, uh... when I was working for It's Showtime! And she asked me to work for them and I'll-

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:22

      I still have some of the old It's Showtime! on my old... I have a DVR in my gym-

   4. VSVinny Shoreman5:27

      Right. Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:27

      That's like fucking 10 years old and I still have your voice-

   6. VSVinny Shoreman5:30

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:30

      ... yeah, screaming over something.

   8. VSVinny Shoreman5:32

      Sorry about that.

   9. LHLiam Harrison5:33

      Can't escape it. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       It's, it's great. It's great.

   11. VSVinny Shoreman5:34

       I'm sorry about that. You know, you know what? As, as of, as of... I was gonna say as I've matured but af- after the shenanigans we've got up to-

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:39

       (laughs)

   13. VSVinny Shoreman5:40

       Uh, in the past, uh, you'd be surprised.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       (laughs)

   15. VSVinny Shoreman5:41

       But no, it's, it's, um...You know, Yokkoh's gone from strength to strength. You know, and, and, and Showtime offshoots like Glory and, and, and Fusion, who I work for now, you know, it's, they're so healthy at the minute.

   16. LHLiam Harrison5:54

       Yeah.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman5:54

       They're so healthy, kickboxing and Muay Thai is

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       Well, it's so high level.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman5:58

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:58

       It's just to me, I, I mean, I've sat down and thought about this alone by myself for hours on end, trying to think like what would be the way to get Muay Thai more popular in America.

   21. VSVinny Shoreman6:07

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:07

       'Cause me, as a, a person who loves combat sports, I look at Muay Thai and I'm like, "This is the pinnacle of striking sports." It's the most exciting to me. I like the clinch, I like the elbows. I love kickboxing, I love Glory. But I feel like there's something missing with that. Like, just the stuff that you were showing me today, with all the trips and the sweeps and all that stuff that's eliminated from Glory.

6. 6:28 – 9:36

   Liam’s fan-friendly style and what makes fights TV-ready

   1. VSVinny Shoreman6:28

      The thing is, thing is with, with Liam as well, though, because he's got such a, he's got a fan-friendly style. You know, he's not particularly a clincher, but he's, he's crash, bang, wallop, and 150 mile an hour. And I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I'm his biggest fan. I mean, if you listen to the commentary-

   2. LHLiam Harrison6:42

      (laughs)

   3. VSVinny Shoreman6:42

      ... it's totally 100% biased.

   4. LHLiam Harrison6:44

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:44

      (laughs)

   6. VSVinny Shoreman6:44

      And I don't fucking care. No, I love the kid, do you know what I mean? I've known him since he was 15. And I-

   7. LHLiam Harrison6:48

      I'm on my back up floor and Vinnie's like, "Look how well he's lying down! Oh, he's just doing it great!"

   8. VSVinny Shoreman6:52

      (laughs) "He wear them anklets smashing, he does."

   9. LHLiam Harrison6:54

      (laughs)

   10. VSVinny Shoreman6:54

       But, you know, for me, it, it, it's his style that makes it exciting, you know?

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:58

       Yes.

   12. VSVinny Shoreman6:58

       And, and for me, that's the fun.

   13. LHLiam Harrison6:58

       I think that with, with the TV thing, I think to get it more popular, you need to pick and choose what fights you put in on the TV, I think.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       Yeah.

   15. LHLiam Harrison7:05

       If you just put like a random show on with like three like, fights that are terrible but one's okay, you need to, instead of it being live, maybe like pick and choose some good fights, get it out there, get people talking about it. Make 'em think, "Wow, did you see that? Did you see them elbows? Did you see all that blood? See them sweeps?" That's what I think.

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       Yeah.

   17. LHLiam Harrison7:21

       Yeah, that's what I, that's what I'd do, personally. But-

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:23

       I feel like if a network like Fox took a chance and had one Saturday night and they promoted it and they, "We're gonna show you the most dangerous standup strikers on the planet Earth." Like, you might think that professional boxers are the most dangerous strikers, but they literally wouldn't last two rounds.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman7:39

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       They'd get their legs kicked out from under them, they'd get a knee in the body, an elbow in the face, they'd get cut up and clinched and thrown to the ground. It's just a better style of fighting. And a guy like you (snaps fingers) on TV would be a whole lotta fun.

   21. LHLiam Harrison7:51

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:52

       I'm a big fan of the way you fight, man. You f- you fight like you got rabies.

   23. LHLiam Harrison7:55

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       (laughs)

   25. VSVinny Shoreman7:56

       (laughs)

   26. LHLiam Harrison7:57

       It, it's like what Vinnie said, um, I've always had that, that type of style. But you know what? And sometimes, I've probably lost fights on points because of going, wanting to go for the kill when probably I, if I'd have changed my game plan, I probably could've won. But that's just not what I'm about. I get in there and people come in to watch me fight and paying their hard-earned money to come and watch me fight, they wanna see me smash someone's leg, they wanna see me knock someone out, they wanna see even if it goes the distance, they wanna see me put it all in there. And people are paying their money for that. So I feel like I've got a moral obligation to, to give 'em that. I mean, I can fight technical as well. I've had lots of fights in the past where I've just gone in with that game set and I've wo- schooled top-level fighters. Um, but I don't like doing that. I wanna get in there and I wanna, I wanna fuck shit up.

   27. VSVinny Shoreman8:39

       I don't like it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:40

       Yeah.

   29. VSVinny Shoreman8:40

       I don't like doing that, either.

   30. LHLiam Harrison8:42

       (laughs)
7. 9:36 – 12:08

   Wild Card Gym stories, boxing fandom, and meeting Freddie Roach

   1. VSVinny Shoreman9:36

      We've been to hunt him, haven't we?

   2. LHLiam Harrison9:38

      (laughs) We were looking for him the other day at Big Bear.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      Yeah, you guys went stalking like fan girls. (laughs)

   4. VSVinny Shoreman9:42

      (laughs)

   5. LHLiam Harrison9:42

      100%. We sat in a restaurant where he eats.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      Yeah.

   7. LHLiam Harrison9:44

      Where he came over and said, "Oh, what would you like?" I went, "Oh, I'll have what GGG has, please."

   8. VSVinny Shoreman9:47

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:47

      Yeah, it's true.

   10. LHLiam Harrison9:48

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:48

       The GGG special.

   12. LHLiam Harrison9:49

       Yeah. (laughs)

   13. VSVinny Shoreman9:49

       And when we was in there, we were sat there and, and Li- Liam was like across from me, um, and I went, "There's Tom Loeffler." And he went, "Who is it?" I went, "It's GGG's manager." And they've been getting all chairs out and stuff.

   14. LHLiam Harrison10:00

       Mm-hmm.

   15. VSVinny Shoreman10:00

       Setting these chairs out for, and I thought, "He's gonna arrive. He's gonna, we're gonna meet him."

   16. LHLiam Harrison10:04

       I couldn't eat my food, I got so excited. I pushed my plate away. I went, "I can't, I can't eat any more. I can't eat any more."

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:07

       "Yeah, he's gonna be here any moment now."

   18. LHLiam Harrison10:10

       (laughs)

   19. VSVinny Shoreman10:10

       And we were sat there for ages, he didn't turn up.

   20. LHLiam Harrison10:11

       Oh, well.

   21. VSVinny Shoreman10:12

       But we met Freddie Roach the day before.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:14

       Freddie Roach is a sweetheart, isn't he?

   23. LHLiam Harrison10:15

       What a guy, what a guy, what a guy.

   24. VSVinny Shoreman10:17

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       He's a real sweetheart, you know.

   26. VSVinny Shoreman10:18

       Yeah. He took us down and let us watch sparring and stuff. And we were like... (clapping)

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       Yeah, he-

   28. LHLiam Harrison10:22

       But it weren't even that, he's like stood with us for like half an hour, we were talking about boxing. He were like interested in when I was fighting and stuff like that. He didn't have to be like that, do you know what I mean? And I bet he gets people walking in there all the time like wanting to meet him and stuff. But he took time out, talking to Vinnie about all different other types of fights. Let us watch the, some top level fighters spar, and he were like really interested, like what-

   29. VSVinny Shoreman10:40

       Yeah, great guy.

   30. LHLiam Harrison10:40

       Absolute legend.
8. 12:08 – 14:33

   Seminars in America: physical Muay Thai + NLP/hypnosis mindset coaching

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:08

      So you're in America doing some seminars?

   2. LHLiam Harrison12:10

      Yeah, yeah. Um, uh, Fire Fury Focus seminars. Um, Vinnie's doing all his, um, NLP mind coaching stuff for an hour and a half, and then I take over and do all the physical aspects, um, Muay Thai, all the little tricks and sweeps, some of the stuff that I was show- showing you there. Stuff that I've used throughout my career to help me get to where I'm, where I am.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:30

      And NLP is neurolinguist- linguistic programming? Is that what you're doing?

   4. VSVinny Shoreman12:33

      Yeah. Yeah, NLP. S- uh, but it's mainly to language and, and things, tricks that I've picked up from over the years. It's not all NLP, you know?

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:40

      Mm-hmm.

   6. VSVinny Shoreman12:40

      It's, uh, a little bit of hypnosis, hypnotic language, blah, blah, blah. So-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:43

      Right, right.

   8. VSVinny Shoreman12:44

      And it gets them in a learning state. So what I do is I, I get, uh, prepare them in a learning state, give them confidence, build them up, so they can start to take on what Liam teaches. So it's a double whammy really. So he teaches some brilliant techniques as you're aware, and then I just do my bit to get them where they have to get to.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:00

      Before I met you, I thought that hypnosis was for idiots.

   10. LHLiam Harrison13:03

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       I thought you had to be-

   12. LHLiam Harrison13:05

       So did I. (laughs)

   13. VSVinny Shoreman13:05

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       (laughs) I thought you had to be a dummy.

   15. LHLiam Harrison13:07

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       I'm like, "Yeah, you ain't getting me with that shit." (laughs)

   17. VSVinny Shoreman13:10

       (laughs)

   18. LHLiam Harrison13:10

       Same. Same.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       And then when you hypnotized me, I was like, "Wait a minute. This is real? Wow." But what... It's... I tried to explain it to me, uh, to people, you know? I'm like, "It's not what you think." It's not like, you don't know where you are, you don't know what's going on, all of a sudden your pants are off. It's not like that. It's like you achieve this weird state of mind that you're-

   20. VSVinny Shoreman13:31

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       ... aware of.

   22. VSVinny Shoreman13:31

       You do it.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:32

       Yes.

   24. VSVinny Shoreman13:32

       Yeah, all's I do is guide it. You do it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:34

       Yeah.

   26. VSVinny Shoreman13:35

       And then the, the client does it, like whether they're with you or actors. We've got an actor friend called Mike Parr, who we've... Uh, I've been working with who loves it and Warren Brown, big fan. Who we, who we know.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       Does he use it to help his acting?

   28. VSVinny Shoreman13:46

       Yeah, he, he did. He mentioned me on a program called This Morning, which is a daytime show, uh, in England, and, uh, he went on. He's in a, uh, a soap opera called Emmerdale. He's known Liam a long time and known me less time because I'm not in that one.

   29. LHLiam Harrison13:59

       He's your biggest fan, by the way.

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:00

       Oh, yeah?
9. 14:33 – 22:55

   Hakalau, anchoring, and the ‘Warrior’ keyword—mindset in big fights

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:33

      And how, how it works. And that expression that you like, like to use all the time, Hakalau.

   2. VSVinny Shoreman14:38

      Hakalau.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:38

      I think about that. Explain what that is to people?

   4. VSVinny Shoreman14:41

      Hakalau is a, it's increasing your peripheral vision. Um, it's cor... It's increasing your awareness just by basically cutting off your chitter chatter that goes on in your mind. If you see, uh, Liam, when he fights, before he fights, he pushes his gloves together-

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:56

      Mm-hmm.

   6. VSVinny Shoreman14:56

      ... and goes into Hakalau every single time. What that does, well I haven't shown you that yet, but I will show you later on if you wish, is you, you anchor the gloves. So you anchor a positive state in the gloves and you push them together and you find Hakalau, and it just gets you in the... Well, you can explain that.

   7. LHLiam Harrison15:12

      Yeah. What, what's unique about these seminars is, and why I wanted to do them is, 'cause I've worked with him myself before and all the stuff that he's teaching and know... I know it works meself. Um, first time I used Vinnie is, uh, the story of how it all started. I fought a top level Thai called Anawat Kao-Samrek. He was nicknamed with Iron Hands of Siam. He had like an 80% KO ratio.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      (laughs)

   9. LHLiam Harrison15:31

      And I went to fight him in Jamaica. I knew I could beat him but there were a few aspects that just didn't go right with training and it didn't go right at the time. I don't like-

   10. VSVinny Shoreman15:37

       Michael Jackson died.

   11. LHLiam Harrison15:39

       Threw him off. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       Oh, did he?

   13. LHLiam Harrison15:41

       He did. He did. I'm not gonna lie.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       Really?

   15. LHLiam Harrison15:42

       That fucked my shit up. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       Really? It fucked you up when Michael Jackson died?

   17. LHLiam Harrison15:46

       Oh, yeah, I'm a massive fan.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       (laughs)

   19. VSVinny Shoreman15:47

       (laughs)

   20. LHLiam Harrison15:47

       Anyw- every, everyone who knows me knows I'm a massive fan.

   21. VSVinny Shoreman15:49

       We like that. << He's out of my life >>

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       (laughs)

   23. LHLiam Harrison15:53

       (laughs)

   24. VSVinny Shoreman15:53

       (laughs)

   25. LHLiam Harrison15:53

       But I'm not, I'm not blaming Michael Jackson for losing that fight, listen.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       No, but you really were. You were a massive Michael Jackson fan. That's interesting.

   27. LHLiam Harrison15:59

       Oh, massive, massive, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:00

       Did you ever come out to his fights? You ever have like walkout music?

   29. LHLiam Harrison16:02

       Yeah, like Smooth Criminal-

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       Ah!
10. 22:55 – 29:43

    Training like a Thai: Thailand camp life vs the modern ‘Bad Company’ stable

    1. JRJoe Rogan22:55

       What is the difference? What is the difference when you, when you train in England versus when you train in Thailand and how they fight? What is the difference?

    2. LHLiam Harrison23:02

       Well, over there, I, I, uh, I stayed there for about 18 months, in Thailand, and I just lived in the gym like the Thais did. So, woke up in the morning, we went running, came back, pad work, bit of clinch. Not too intense in the morning, but then the afternoon session, free in the afternoon, scorching hot heat, three till six. I mean, most classes in England, they might be, what, an hour, an hour and a half? These were three hours, intense. You keep your-

    3. JRJoe Rogan23:23

       Second workout of the day, too.

    4. LHLiam Harrison23:24

       Yeah, yeah. So you're skipping for half an hour. Straight off of that, straight on the pads, seven, eight rounds. Straight off of that, straight into sparring. Straight off of that, straight into clinching with the Thais. And anyone who knows how strong the Thais are at clinching as well, it was absolute torture every single day. Um, but I loved it and I don't think without ...... doing that, I would definitely not have been able to compete with the top level fighters that I have done. Um, now, though, how much Richard has projes- progressed with my gym in England, I feel like we've got so many top level fighters now that, who are at that level, I feel like I don't have to go over there to do it anymore.

    5. JRJoe Rogan23:56

       Mm-hmm.

    6. LHLiam Harrison23:56

       We've got the stable in Bad Company now. We've got the knowledge, we've got the experience, and we've got the- the- the- Andy Owson, Jordan Watson, young Joe Craven coming through. We've got all these strong, strong animals in the gym that, um, we're probably one of... Well, we are. We have been one of the best gyms in Europe for a long time now.

    7. JRJoe Rogan24:11

       Now, do you work out the same amount of time? Do you do a morning session and then do a three-hour afternoon session too?

    8. LHLiam Harrison24:17

       Yeah, so what I'll do in the morning, I'll go down, I'll probably do kick pads with, with my boss Richard, uh, and then maybe a bit of play sparring with Jordan or a run. So then in the evening... I've got PTs all day in between this, though. That's the only difference.

    9. JRJoe Rogan24:29

       Personal training, you say?

    10. LHLiam Harrison24:30

        Yeah, yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan24:30

        Okay.

    12. LHLiam Harrison24:30

        I teach as well, like, full time.

    13. JRJoe Rogan24:32

        Right.

    14. LHLiam Harrison24:32

        So I might have five hours of PTs to do-

    15. JRJoe Rogan24:34

        Wow.

    16. LHLiam Harrison24:34

        ... in between all this. It's obviously-

    17. JRJoe Rogan24:36

        That's exhausting.

    18. LHLiam Harrison24:37

        Yeah, it is, it is.

    19. JRJoe Rogan24:38

        Especially the way you teach.

    20. LHLiam Harrison24:39

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan24:39

        You get very intense.

    22. LHLiam Harrison24:40

        I'm- I like to be hands-on and-

    23. JRJoe Rogan24:42

        Yeah.

    24. LHLiam Harrison24:42

        ... uh, to get involved. And, um, it is, it is tiring. I just have to make sure I like me diet at some point with stuff like that. Because if I have a day where I, where I eat shit and then I'm exhausted-

    25. JRJoe Rogan24:50

        Right.

    26. LHLiam Harrison24:50

        ... and I can't get the most out of my second training session. And then it'll get to five o'clock, I'll go run again, kick pads again, and that's when Richard will do, like, the-

    27. JRJoe Rogan24:57

        So you run twice in a day?

    28. LHLiam Harrison24:59

        Some days.

    29. JRJoe Rogan24:59

        Wow!

    30. LHLiam Harrison25:00

        Yeah, I don't run far though. I'll do more five, five Ks but fast.
11. 29:43 – 38:02

    Weight cuts, calories, and recovery tools (cryotherapy, CBD, hair tests)

    1. JRJoe Rogan29:43

       Now, I would imagine with your style, it's, your s- your style is so physically intensive and so aggressive that, like, you're... How well do you monitor your diet?

    2. LHLiam Harrison29:54

       I have to do with... when I'm close to a fight, um, if I don't, like I say, I've got... I'm gonna have no energy. And they're like-

    3. JRJoe Rogan30:00

       Do you cut weight?

    4. LHLiam Harrison30:02

       Yeah, I used to cut a lot more than I do now. I... I... I might do about eight pounds now, but I might start the f- the fight, um, camp and be only 10 pounds over.

    5. JRJoe Rogan30:09

       But that's not... that's nothing crazy.

    6. LHLiam Harrison30:11

       No, not a lot at all.

    7. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       Yeah.

    8. LHLiam Harrison30:12

       Um, my last four or five fights, the day before the weigh-in, I've been on weight without having to get in the sauna or without having to go run in the sweatsuit or anything like that. As I've got older, I've got wiser. Um-

    9. JRJoe Rogan30:21

       Yeah. You real... you just realized it was draining you too much?

    10. LHLiam Harrison30:24

        Yeah, of course. Especially as I got older. When I was younger, I could get away with it. I might be able to get in the sauna and lose like three, four kilo at the weigh-in and still get in there and, and knock someone out or stop someone. But as I... I had a few mistakes as I got older as well, growing, where I missed weight, and it made me just think, "What am I doing here? Get on point with it." Um, because as soon as you start to do stuff like that, promoters don't wanna work with you.

    11. JRJoe Rogan30:43

        Right.

    12. LHLiam Harrison30:43

        You get a bad rep. And, um, this were about seven, eight years ago now, and I haven't done it... I haven't done it since. I've made sure I've been on point with everything. To be honest, it's down to me- my missus a lot as well. She looks after me, um. She... and she goes out and works hard all day, but whenever I get in from gym, about half seven, eight o'clock, there's healthy food there for me and stuff. Um-

    13. JRJoe Rogan31:00

        What, what kind of food do you eat? Do you, do you specify? I mean, do you have like a-

    14. LHLiam Harrison31:03

        Not really. A lot of people cut out carbs and stuff. I, I'm training so hard and sweating all day and burning so much calories in my PTs and stuff. I don't need to cut out my carbs, um-

    15. JRJoe Rogan31:11

        That's a big factor. Like, people need to understand that when they're talking about low carb diets, it really dependent upon how much exercise you do.

    16. LHLiam Harrison31:17

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan31:17

        If you're running twice a day and you're doing three-hour workouts in the afternoon, like, you're gonna need some carbohydrates.

    18. LHLiam Harrison31:23

        Yeah, exactly. I don't need to cut 'em out. Um, even in the last week, a lot of people have been saying, "Oh, it's last week, fight camp, weigh-ins coming up, I need to cut my carbs out." I'll still get up in the morning and have a massive bowl of porridge. I still have rice with my dinner and my fish and my salad and stuff like that as well. I don't need to cut it out. Um, but like I said, that's down to how much work I'm doing-

    19. JRJoe Rogan31:39

        Yeah.

    20. LHLiam Harrison31:39

        ... and stuff like that, yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan31:40

        The amount you're burning. I mean, Jesus Christ, the amount of calories you must be burning is insane.

    22. LHLiam Harrison31:44

        Well, I had my, I had my watch on the other day, and I think I'd done something like almost nearly 5,000 or something ridiculous, and I wore-

    23. JRJoe Rogan31:49

        5,000 calories?

    24. LHLiam Harrison31:50

        I wore it all day from me training and me PTs and stuff like that.

    25. JRJoe Rogan31:53

        That's insane.

    26. LHLiam Harrison31:54

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan31:54

        Just think about eating 5,000 calories a day.

    28. GUGuest31:57

        Yeah, exactly. You can't.

    29. JRJoe Rogan31:57

        You wanna throw up. (laughs)

    30. LHLiam Harrison31:57

        Yeah, yeah. You can't.
12. 38:02 – 1:15:56

    Natural talent, youth development, and kids fighting (no head contact)

    1. JRJoe Rogan38:02

       Well, the UFC is now coming to Liverpool.

    2. VSVinny Shoreman38:04

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan38:04

       And Darren Till is going to be in the headline.

    4. VSVinny Shoreman38:06

       Mike Hodson, you know, yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan38:06

       But he doesn't have a fight yet, correct?

    6. VSVinny Shoreman38:08

       No.

    7. LHLiam Harrison38:08

       Correct. Nothing confirmed yet, no.

    8. VSVinny Shoreman38:09

       Not yet.

    9. JRJoe Rogan38:09

       I'm hoping it's gonna be Usman. They're ta- Kamaru Usman-

    10. VSVinny Shoreman38:12

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        ... and him are going back and forth on, on Twitter.

    12. VSVinny Shoreman38:14

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan38:14

        That's good. That guy gets no love. Kamaru Usman, 7-0 in the UFC, smashes everybody. Everybody's scared of him. Nobody calls him out, ever.

    14. LHLiam Harrison38:21

        I don't think... Yeah. Till, I'm pretty sure Till will be scared of him. He'd love it, Till, wouldn't he?

    15. VSVinny Shoreman38:24

        Yeah, he loves it.

    16. LHLiam Harrison38:25

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan38:25

        Yeah. Till, uh, Till's-

    18. LHLiam Harrison38:27

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        They've been going back and forth.

    20. LHLiam Harrison38:28

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan38:28

        I think Till is the guy for him, it's, uh-

    22. LHLiam Harrison38:29

        Yeah. Definitely. What a fight that'll be.

    23. JRJoe Rogan38:31

        And the standup wise, Till has a massive advantage. And then on the ground, Usman should have an advantage.

    24. VSVinny Shoreman38:36

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan38:36

        So it's, it's a very interesting fight.

    26. LHLiam Harrison38:38

        Yeah. Interesting fight.

    27. JRJoe Rogan38:38

        Usman's a fucking tank too. That guy's a fucking animal, man.

    28. VSVinny Shoreman38:42

        (clears throat) I'm-

    29. LHLiam Harrison38:42

        Well, well, yeah, I've not seen too much of him, but, um-

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:44

        It's 'cause everybody's scared of him.

Episode duration: 1:50:20