JRE MMA Show #19 with Vinny Shoreman & Liam Harrison

Joe Rogan 0:04 Boom, and we're live with my pal Vinnie Shearman and eight-time world Muay Thai champion Liam Harrison.

Liam Harrison 0:10 Ah, thank you very much. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:11 Fuck yeah, dude.

Liam Harrison 0:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Great to be here. Great to see you guys too.

Vinny Shoreman 0:13 Yeah, we love it.

Joe Rogan 0:15 Um, listen man, I'm a, I'm a big fan of all combat sports but I really believe that if there's one sport that doesn't get its due, it's Muay Thai. I really don't understand-

Vinny Shoreman 0:23 Anyway.

Joe Rogan 0:23 ... why it hasn't taken off in America. I, I don't get it. I love boxing. Boxing's a lot of fun. I think Muay Thai is twice as fun.

Liam Harrison 0:31 Yeah, it's twice as hard as well, I think. I mean, I fought pro boxing and I've had over a hundred Muay Thai fights. It's definitely a lot harder. I mean, it is getting more mainstream now along with the MMA because most of the top MMA fighters are doing Muay Thai for the standup, but it's still not where it needs to be-

Joe Rogan 0:46 Yeah, it's-

Liam Harrison 0:46 Nowhere near.

Joe Rogan 0:47 ... it's weird, right?

Vinny Shoreman 0:48 Yeah, I mean, (sighs) I think what puts a lot of people off, uh, Muay Thai is the, uh, maybe the two-minute break and also the, the-

Joe Rogan 0:57 Two-minute break in between rounds?

Vinny Shoreman 0:58 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 0:58 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 0:58 And the traditional music and stuff like that. People find that hard to take too really, which is... Uh, I mean, I love it, so I don't see that problem but I can see outside the box with that as well, so...

Joe Rogan 1:08 Well, I feel like the two-minute break gives guys more of a chance to recover-

Vinny Shoreman 1:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11 ... which makes the fights more exciting. You have more energy. And, uh, I don't care about the, the dance, the white crew. That doesn't bother me.

Vinny Shoreman 1:18 Yeah, but you're a fan, aren't ya? You're a martial arts fan. I mean, to sit down and watch with beers and...

Joe Rogan 1:21 I am, but watch baseball.

Vinny Shoreman 1:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22 Baseball is so fucking boring.

Liam Harrison 1:23 Yeah, exactly.

Vinny Shoreman 1:24 Grounders. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24 It's crazy how boring it is.

Liam Harrison 1:26 A lot of shows in England now, they've started to cut out the, all the traditional stuff. There's no runway, no white crew.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Right.

Liam Harrison 1:31 You get in the ring, you face off. Bell goes, go straight away. So they're trying to cut little aspects of it out just to make it more media fr- uh, fan, fan friendly really.

Joe Rogan 1:39 Yeah. We should probably explain to people that don't know what we're talking about though. The, the dance that they do, it's called the white crew, right?

Vinny Shoreman 1:45 Yeah, the rum white.

Joe Rogan 1:46 And it's, what's, what is the headband they put on? What is that?

Liam Harrison 1:49 The mongkong.

Joe Rogan 1:50 That's the mongkong.

Liam Harrison 1:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51 And when you're doing the dance, the idea is like to warm up?

Vinny Shoreman 1:56 Yeah, there's, there's lots of different rea- lots of different reasons why. There's different camps believe different things. It's to do, mainly to do with Buddhism. You're seen in the ring and then taking, uh, you know, paying respect to your gym, your, your, your coaches, your parents et cetera, isn't it, Liam?

Liam Harrison 2:09 Yeah, I mean, I, I enjoy doing it. It, it sort of prepares me mentally for what's about to happen. Um, I've done it in nearly all my 108 fights. Only the odd one or two where I've missed it when that's only been because I've been told by the promoters, "Right, no runway." I enjoy doing it, but like Vinnie said, like some people who come and watch it, they just wanna see fights. They don't wanna see that aspect of the sport as well. They just wanna see people getting torn up.

Joe Rogan 2:31 And in case anybody didn't catch that through that dense accent, he just said-

Liam Harrison 2:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:35 ... 108 fights. That's fucking crazy, man.

Liam Harrison 2:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39 That's a lot of fights.

Liam Harrison 2:39 It is for a westerner, but like a lot of the Thais I'm coming across, they're all 200, 300 plus. I remember last year I fought a Thai and, um, they said, "Oh, Liam's had 100 fights. That is a lot. What do you think?" And he said, "I'd 100 fights when I was 15 years old." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:55 Wow.

Liam Harrison 2:56 So... (laughs) Yeah. Uh, that was Singdhammo who said that about me, so yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 A hundred fights when he was 15. How are it even possible?

Liam Harrison 3:00 I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 3:01 They must have been fighting every week.

Vinny Shoreman 3:02 They fight every week, don't they? Just...

Joe Rogan 3:03 Yeah, 52 weeks a year.

Vinny Shoreman 3:04 Well, it's a li- it's a living, isn't it? So-

Joe Rogan 3:06 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 3:06 ... you know, if they don't eat, they don't... In Thailand, if you don't fight, you don't eat, so see ya. There's no welfare or anything like that, so they have to do that.

Joe Rogan 3:13 I had, uh, former UFC, uh, champion Pat Miletich in yesterday and we were talking about Muay Thai and how crazy it is that this one place, Thailand, developed this completely effective style. Like, they changed the way people fight.

Vinny Shoreman 3:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:27 I mean, they really did.

Vinny Shoreman 3:28 Yeah, they did.

Joe Rogan 3:28 You look at all the other martial arts, whether it's karate or kung fu or anything else, like, they figured it out.

Liam Harrison 3:33 Yeah, without a doubt. Um, but what's happening now is as well, the westerners are starting to catch them up now. I mean, remember when the first time I went to Thailand, not many people were going and, um, not many people knew about fighting that Thai way. More and more westerners now are going to live there. They're staying there for long periods of time. They're getting it down and we now can compete with the top level Thais now.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Wow.

Liam Harrison 3:53 Before, like back in the day, there might have been like only Ramon Dekker, Danny Beal, obviously John Winpa, them guys who could really do it-

Vinny Shoreman 3:59 Yeah, Ronnie Green as well from England.

Liam Harrison 4:00 From... Yeah, Ronnie Green from England.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Right, right.

Liam Harrison 4:01 But now there's a lot, a lot, especially around Europe, French fighters, top level, British guys. We've got Danny McGowan in England, he's doing it. I mean, we are starting to really compete with people on top, top level now.

Joe Rogan 4:11 Is Muay Thai more popular in Europe than it is in America?

Liam Harrison 4:14 Yeah, there's massive shows on in Europe every weekend.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Really?

Liam Harrison 4:17 I mean, in, in America, there's like, the main one's Lion Fight. Um-

Joe Rogan 4:21 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 4:21 We've got like two or three huge promotions in England now, Yokko, um, there's Tankor. The French, they have massive shows on every weekend with top, top level fighters on. Um, all over Poland and every- everywhere. It is getting, it is getting huge.

Joe Rogan 4:36 I'm a big fan of Lion Fight but it seems to me that there's a lot of times where these guys come over and they're fighting someone that really doesn't belong in there with them. And you get to see like Allard Zilla or someone like that.

Liam Harrison 4:46 That would be absolutely ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 4:47 That fight is crazy.

Liam Harrison 4:48 The guy's first fight against a guy who's had 400 fights.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 4:50 Like, one of the best Thai champions of this era he were.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Yeah, and his first ever professional Muay Thai fight he got his guy ripped off.

Liam Harrison 4:56 And look what happened, he got his, got his head ripped off.

Vinny Shoreman 4:56 Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 4:57 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 4:57 ... that's the difference between Yokko and everything else, you know?

Joe Rogan 4:59 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 4:59 Um, they do it in such a way that the, the, the matchmaking, Brian Calder, who does our matchmaking, our friend, um... The, the, the fights are like really, really... always, always competitive, which I really enjoy. And-

Joe Rogan 5:11 And you've been doing commentary for them for how long?

Vinny Shoreman 5:13 I've been doing commentary for Yokko since 2011. I met Stefania in, uh... when I was working for It's Showtime! And she asked me to work for them and I'll-

Joe Rogan 5:22 I still have some of the old It's Showtime! on my old... I have a DVR in my gym-

Vinny Shoreman 5:27 Right. Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:27 That's like fucking 10 years old and I still have your voice-

Vinny Shoreman 5:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:30 ... yeah, screaming over something.

Vinny Shoreman 5:32 Sorry about that.

Liam Harrison 5:33 Can't escape it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:33 It's, it's great. It's great.

Vinny Shoreman 5:34 I'm sorry about that. You know, you know what? As, as of, as of... I was gonna say as I've matured but af- after the shenanigans we've got up to-

Joe Rogan 5:39 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 5:40 Uh, in the past, uh, you'd be surprised.

Joe Rogan 5:41 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 5:41 But no, it's, it's, um...You know, Yokkoh's gone from strength to strength. You know, and, and, and Showtime offshoots like Glory and, and, and Fusion, who I work for now, you know, it's, they're so healthy at the minute.

Liam Harrison 5:54 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 5:54 They're so healthy, kickboxing and Muay Thai is

Joe Rogan 5:56 Well, it's so high level.

Vinny Shoreman 5:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:58 It's just to me, I, I mean, I've sat down and thought about this alone by myself for hours on end, trying to think like what would be the way to get Muay Thai more popular in America.

Vinny Shoreman 6:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:07 'Cause me, as a, a person who loves combat sports, I look at Muay Thai and I'm like, "This is the pinnacle of striking sports." It's the most exciting to me. I like the clinch, I like the elbows. I love kickboxing, I love Glory. But I feel like there's something missing with that. Like, just the stuff that you were showing me today, with all the trips and the sweeps and all that stuff that's eliminated from Glory.

Vinny Shoreman 6:28 The thing is, thing is with, with Liam as well, though, because he's got such a, he's got a fan-friendly style. You know, he's not particularly a clincher, but he's, he's crash, bang, wallop, and 150 mile an hour. And I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I'm his biggest fan. I mean, if you listen to the commentary-

Liam Harrison 6:42 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 6:42 ... it's totally 100% biased.

Liam Harrison 6:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:44 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 6:44 And I don't fucking care. No, I love the kid, do you know what I mean? I've known him since he was 15. And I-

Liam Harrison 6:48 I'm on my back up floor and Vinnie's like, "Look how well he's lying down! Oh, he's just doing it great!"

Vinny Shoreman 6:52 (laughs) "He wear them anklets smashing, he does."

Liam Harrison 6:54 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 6:54 But, you know, for me, it, it, it's his style that makes it exciting, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:58 Yes.

Vinny Shoreman 6:58 And, and for me, that's the fun.

Liam Harrison 6:58 I think that with, with the TV thing, I think to get it more popular, you need to pick and choose what fights you put in on the TV, I think.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 7:05 If you just put like a random show on with like three like, fights that are terrible but one's okay, you need to, instead of it being live, maybe like pick and choose some good fights, get it out there, get people talking about it. Make 'em think, "Wow, did you see that? Did you see them elbows? Did you see all that blood? See them sweeps?" That's what I think.

Joe Rogan 7:21 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 7:21 Yeah, that's what I, that's what I'd do, personally. But-

Joe Rogan 7:23 I feel like if a network like Fox took a chance and had one Saturday night and they promoted it and they, "We're gonna show you the most dangerous standup strikers on the planet Earth." Like, you might think that professional boxers are the most dangerous strikers, but they literally wouldn't last two rounds.

Vinny Shoreman 7:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:39 They'd get their legs kicked out from under them, they'd get a knee in the body, an elbow in the face, they'd get cut up and clinched and thrown to the ground. It's just a better style of fighting. And a guy like you (snaps fingers) on TV would be a whole lotta fun.

Liam Harrison 7:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:52 I'm a big fan of the way you fight, man. You f- you fight like you got rabies.

Liam Harrison 7:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:56 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 7:56 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 7:57 It, it's like what Vinnie said, um, I've always had that, that type of style. But you know what? And sometimes, I've probably lost fights on points because of going, wanting to go for the kill when probably I, if I'd have changed my game plan, I probably could've won. But that's just not what I'm about. I get in there and people come in to watch me fight and paying their hard-earned money to come and watch me fight, they wanna see me smash someone's leg, they wanna see me knock someone out, they wanna see even if it goes the distance, they wanna see me put it all in there. And people are paying their money for that. So I feel like I've got a moral obligation to, to give 'em that. I mean, I can fight technical as well. I've had lots of fights in the past where I've just gone in with that game set and I've wo- schooled top-level fighters. Um, but I don't like doing that. I wanna get in there and I wanna, I wanna fuck shit up.

Vinny Shoreman 8:39 I don't like it.

Joe Rogan 8:40 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 8:40 I don't like doing that, either.

Liam Harrison 8:42 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 8:42 I'm not gonna be, you know, uh, it's-

Joe Rogan 8:43 You don't like when he fights technical?

Vinny Shoreman 8:44 N- L- Listen, I, I, he can't do any wrong in my eyes. You know what I mean?

Liam Harrison 8:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:48 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 8:48 He can't, you know what I mean? Oh, Liam's, Liam's killed a family for nothing. Mm, they must've done something to excited.

Joe Rogan 8:54 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 8:54 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 8:54 But, um, no, I, I just, I just think that, you know, his style, the way that the show that we work on, I work on regularly, Yokkoh.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 9:02 I mean, to, to, to have that level of... It's matchmaking.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 9:07 See, Muay Thai is like anything. I- if, if it's done well, it's beautiful. If it's done badly, it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 9:11 Right.

Vinny Shoreman 9:11 ... it sucks and watch.

Joe Rogan 9:11 Including boxing.

Vinny Shoreman 9:12 Includ- yeah, including boxing.

Joe Rogan 9:12 You know, like, one of the reasons why we were talking about the Gennady Golovkin-Canelo Alvarez fight, I mean, one of the reasons why we're so looking forward to the fight, not just because the first fight was so great, because stylistically, look at the way those two guys fight.

Vinny Shoreman 9:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:23 Like, how could this be a bad fight? It's impossible.

Liam Harrison 9:25 Yeah, and now they're both there and they're gonna both change different game plans and stuff, and it's got everyone thinking again, "Oh, well, what is gonna happen this time?"

Vinny Shoreman 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:30 There's no change.

Liam Harrison 9:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:32 There's gonna, someone's gonna get hit and it's gonna be guns blazing.

Liam Harrison 9:34 Team GGG, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Team GGG.

Vinny Shoreman 9:36 We've been to hunt him, haven't we?

Liam Harrison 9:38 (laughs) We were looking for him the other day at Big Bear.

Joe Rogan 9:40 Yeah, you guys went stalking like fan girls. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 9:42 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 9:42 100%. We sat in a restaurant where he eats.

Joe Rogan 9:44 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 9:44 Where he came over and said, "Oh, what would you like?" I went, "Oh, I'll have what GGG has, please."

Vinny Shoreman 9:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:47 Yeah, it's true.

Liam Harrison 9:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:48 The GGG special.

Liam Harrison 9:49 Yeah. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 9:49 And when we was in there, we were sat there and, and Li- Liam was like across from me, um, and I went, "There's Tom Loeffler." And he went, "Who is it?" I went, "It's GGG's manager." And they've been getting all chairs out and stuff.

Liam Harrison 10:00 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 10:00 Setting these chairs out for, and I thought, "He's gonna arrive. He's gonna, we're gonna meet him."

Liam Harrison 10:04 I couldn't eat my food, I got so excited. I pushed my plate away. I went, "I can't, I can't eat any more. I can't eat any more."

Joe Rogan 10:07 "Yeah, he's gonna be here any moment now."

Liam Harrison 10:10 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 10:10 And we were sat there for ages, he didn't turn up.

Liam Harrison 10:11 Oh, well.

Vinny Shoreman 10:12 But we met Freddie Roach the day before.

Joe Rogan 10:14 Freddie Roach is a sweetheart, isn't he?

Liam Harrison 10:15 What a guy, what a guy, what a guy.

Vinny Shoreman 10:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:17 He's a real sweetheart, you know.

Vinny Shoreman 10:18 Yeah. He took us down and let us watch sparring and stuff. And we were like... (clapping)

Joe Rogan 10:21 Yeah, he-

Liam Harrison 10:22 But it weren't even that, he's like stood with us for like half an hour, we were talking about boxing. He were like interested in when I was fighting and stuff like that. He didn't have to be like that, do you know what I mean? And I bet he gets people walking in there all the time like wanting to meet him and stuff. But he took time out, talking to Vinnie about all different other types of fights. Let us watch the, some top level fighters spar, and he were like really interested, like what-

Vinny Shoreman 10:40 Yeah, great guy.

Liam Harrison 10:40 Absolute legend.

Joe Rogan 10:41 He's very genuine.

Vinny Shoreman 10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:42 I got to interview him back when he was training Georges St-Pierre.

Vinny Shoreman 10:44 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 10:44 When Georges St-Pierre was, uh, under him and he's just, uh, as down to earth as you or you or any... You know, just a regular guy.

Vinny Shoreman 10:50 Yeah, he's a good guy, man.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 10:52 He was over the moon to meet you.

Joe Rogan 10:53 And man, talk about a guy who's been around the world and seen it all.

Vinny Shoreman 10:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:56 That guy.

Vinny Shoreman 10:57 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:57 You know, training Pacquiao and...

Vinny Shoreman 10:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:59 Just, oh fuck, man.

Vinny Shoreman 10:59 And you know what I thought? He said something about, "I don't know whether Pacquiao's gonna train with him for this fight." And he kinda like, and he was so, um, engaging and endearing about Pacquiao, wasn't he?

Joe Rogan 11:09 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 11:09 Saying, "Oh, Pacquiao plays basketball." Even though he's been with him 16 years, uh, and he's just going, "Oh, well, if he goes and does something else or he finds another trainer," he was like, "Oh, well, he likes basket-"

Liam Harrison 11:18 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:18 It's just that... (sighs) He don't give a fuck.

Vinny Shoreman 11:20 No.

Joe Rogan 11:20 He's got money, he doesn't give a shit.

Vinny Shoreman 11:21 No.

Joe Rogan 11:21 And you know, I mean, his health has been such an issue over the last few years.

Vinny Shoreman 11:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:25 He has trauma-related Parkinson's.

Vinny Shoreman 11:27 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 11:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:27 Which has got to be very interesting when you're, you know, training fighters and you realize like you are suffering from fighting yourself.

Vinny Shoreman 11:33 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 11:34 Yeah, it...Just me and him, that, that's made my whole trip, me and him, just seeing how grounded and down to earth he is. I, honestly, I just couldn't believe it.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Have you gone to Wild Card Gym yet?

Vinny Shoreman 11:42 Yeah, that's where we went.

Liam Harrison 11:43 Yeah, that's where we went.

Joe Rogan 11:43 Oh, that's where you went. Yeah, okay-

Vinny Shoreman 11:44 That's where we went last week, yeah.

Liam Harrison 11:44 We, we watched, um, some, two of... What were his name? George Kambosos Jr.?

Vinny Shoreman 11:48 Yeah, the j- the kid from Australia. Good guy.

Liam Harrison 11:49 Watch out for him, 14-0.

Joe Rogan 11:51 Oh, yeah?

Liam Harrison 11:51 Oh, yeah. Phew.

Vinny Shoreman 11:52 Sharp.

Joe Rogan 11:53 Really sharp.

Liam Harrison 11:53 He's, yeah, next, next big thing from Australia, definitely.

Vinny Shoreman 11:55 Really sharp. And a lovely fella as well. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:55 It's crazy too, when you go up to that gym, you hear so much about it, and you're like, "Yeah, it's about as big as this room." (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 11:59 Yeah, it's true.

Joe Rogan 12:00 (laughs) It's not a big fucking gym.

Liam Harrison 12:01 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 12:02 We were sweating and all sorts, weren't we, on the way up?

Liam Harrison 12:04 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 12:04 Whoo!

Joe Rogan 12:04 Yeah. No, it's a legendary spot, you know?

Vinny Shoreman 12:06 Yeah. It's g- it's a great place.

Joe Rogan 12:08 So you're in America doing some seminars?

Liam Harrison 12:10 Yeah, yeah. Um, uh, Fire Fury Focus seminars. Um, Vinnie's doing all his, um, NLP mind coaching stuff for an hour and a half, and then I take over and do all the physical aspects, um, Muay Thai, all the little tricks and sweeps, some of the stuff that I was show- showing you there. Stuff that I've used throughout my career to help me get to where I'm, where I am.

Joe Rogan 12:30 And NLP is neurolinguist- linguistic programming? Is that what you're doing?

Vinny Shoreman 12:33 Yeah. Yeah, NLP. S- uh, but it's mainly to language and, and things, tricks that I've picked up from over the years. It's not all NLP, you know?

Joe Rogan 12:40 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 12:40 It's, uh, a little bit of hypnosis, hypnotic language, blah, blah, blah. So-

Joe Rogan 12:43 Right, right.

Vinny Shoreman 12:44 And it gets them in a learning state. So what I do is I, I get, uh, prepare them in a learning state, give them confidence, build them up, so they can start to take on what Liam teaches. So it's a double whammy really. So he teaches some brilliant techniques as you're aware, and then I just do my bit to get them where they have to get to.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Before I met you, I thought that hypnosis was for idiots.

Liam Harrison 13:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:03 I thought you had to be-

Liam Harrison 13:05 So did I. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 13:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:05 (laughs) I thought you had to be a dummy.

Liam Harrison 13:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:07 I'm like, "Yeah, you ain't getting me with that shit." (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 13:10 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 13:10 Same. Same.

Joe Rogan 13:11 And then when you hypnotized me, I was like, "Wait a minute. This is real? Wow." But what... It's... I tried to explain it to me, uh, to people, you know? I'm like, "It's not what you think." It's not like, you don't know where you are, you don't know what's going on, all of a sudden your pants are off. It's not like that. It's like you achieve this weird state of mind that you're-

Vinny Shoreman 13:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:31 ... aware of.

Vinny Shoreman 13:31 You do it.

Joe Rogan 13:32 Yes.

Vinny Shoreman 13:32 Yeah, all's I do is guide it. You do it.

Joe Rogan 13:34 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 13:35 And then the, the client does it, like whether they're with you or actors. We've got an actor friend called Mike Parr, who we've... Uh, I've been working with who loves it and Warren Brown, big fan. Who we, who we know.

Joe Rogan 13:44 Does he use it to help his acting?

Vinny Shoreman 13:46 Yeah, he, he did. He mentioned me on a program called This Morning, which is a daytime show, uh, in England, and, uh, he went on. He's in a, uh, a soap opera called Emmerdale. He's known Liam a long time and known me less time because I'm not in that one.

Liam Harrison 13:59 He's your biggest fan, by the way.

Joe Rogan 14:00 Oh, yeah?

Liam Harrison 14:01 Biggest fan.

Vinny Shoreman 14:02 Yeah, he's your biggest fan.

Joe Rogan 14:02 What's up, Mike?

Liam Harrison 14:02 What's up, Mike? There you go. Yeah, you met his, met his year.

Vinny Shoreman 14:05 (laughs) Yeah. So yeah, and, and we... I've done work with him, and since we're going on your show, which I have to... I really do appreciate it, because my work's gone from really, uh, a businesswoman of the year, CEOs, and everyone now I've been. It's just been... It's just gone crazy because, you know, they needed a convincer and you was it, so thanks very much. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:23 (laughs) Well, it's legit.

Vinny Shoreman 14:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:24 I'll tell you right now. I mean, I don't know about other people, but you know how to do it.

Vinny Shoreman 14:27 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 14:27 And it, it, it gave me some very interesting understanding about the f- the mind and thought processes.

Vinny Shoreman 14:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:33 And how, how it works. And that expression that you like, like to use all the time, Hakalau.

Vinny Shoreman 14:38 Hakalau.

Joe Rogan 14:38 I think about that. Explain what that is to people?

Vinny Shoreman 14:41 Hakalau is a, it's increasing your peripheral vision. Um, it's cor... It's increasing your awareness just by basically cutting off your chitter chatter that goes on in your mind. If you see, uh, Liam, when he fights, before he fights, he pushes his gloves together-

Joe Rogan 14:56 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 14:56 ... and goes into Hakalau every single time. What that does, well I haven't shown you that yet, but I will show you later on if you wish, is you, you anchor the gloves. So you anchor a positive state in the gloves and you push them together and you find Hakalau, and it just gets you in the... Well, you can explain that.

Liam Harrison 15:12 Yeah. What, what's unique about these seminars is, and why I wanted to do them is, 'cause I've worked with him myself before and all the stuff that he's teaching and know... I know it works meself. Um, first time I used Vinnie is, uh, the story of how it all started. I fought a top level Thai called Anawat Kao-Samrek. He was nicknamed with Iron Hands of Siam. He had like an 80% KO ratio.

Joe Rogan 15:31 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 15:31 And I went to fight him in Jamaica. I knew I could beat him but there were a few aspects that just didn't go right with training and it didn't go right at the time. I don't like-

Vinny Shoreman 15:37 Michael Jackson died.

Liam Harrison 15:39 Threw him off. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:40 Oh, did he?

Liam Harrison 15:41 He did. He did. I'm not gonna lie.

Joe Rogan 15:42 Really?

Liam Harrison 15:42 That fucked my shit up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:43 Really? It fucked you up when Michael Jackson died?

Liam Harrison 15:46 Oh, yeah, I'm a massive fan.

Joe Rogan 15:47 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 15:47 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 15:47 Anyw- every, everyone who knows me knows I'm a massive fan.

Vinny Shoreman 15:49 We like that. << He's out of my life >>

Joe Rogan 15:53 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 15:53 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 15:53 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 15:53 But I'm not, I'm not blaming Michael Jackson for losing that fight, listen.

Joe Rogan 15:56 No, but you really were. You were a massive Michael Jackson fan. That's interesting.

Liam Harrison 15:59 Oh, massive, massive, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:00 Did you ever come out to his fights? You ever have like walkout music?

Liam Harrison 16:02 Yeah, like Smooth Criminal-

Joe Rogan 16:02 Ah!

Liam Harrison 16:02 ... Bad guy. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:04 Nice!

Liam Harrison 16:04 Of course. Um, but yeah-

Joe Rogan 16:06 Nice.

Liam Harrison 16:06 I fought this Thai champion in Jamaica. Like I said, a few things didn't go right and he smashed me to pieces. It was the first time I ever got stopped. Um, I knew I could beat him though. I'm good at reading fighters. I knew I could beat him so I begged and begged and begged for the rematch and the promoter brought him about six months- seven months later, brought him to England. MEN Arena, massive show up, biggest show the country's ever seen. And Vinnie had spoke to me before in the past, said, "Do you ever want to do a little bit of work?" And I was fine, "I'm mentally strong, I'm mentally strong. I don't need to." But as you build up to that fight I thought, "You know what? I'm, I'm gonna train as hard as I always... As I've ever done before anyway," but there's no point, you can never be too prepared.

Joe Rogan 16:41 Right.

Liam Harrison 16:41 So I said, "Oh, Vinnie, can we do a little bit?" And um, we did, uh, we did loads of different techniques and we had like keywords, like warrior were one of them and-

Vinny Shoreman 16:50 Warrior was the main one.

Liam Harrison 16:51 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 16:52 Um, bear in mind, now the reason why Liam was reluctant to, uh, work with me is the first time he met me, um, I stole a wheelchair.

Liam Harrison 16:59 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 16:59 Drunk.

Liam Harrison 17:00 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 17:01 I didn't steal it.

Joe Rogan 17:02 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 17:02 I didn't tip anyone who was disabled out with a wheelchair just for everyone at home.

Liam Harrison 17:05 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:05 Fucking Brits.

Vinny Shoreman 17:06 I know. But we... I was drunk at a show at Lee Sound Hall. I'm sure there's coaches, Richard Smith remembers or Lisa. And um, a- anyway, so he was reluctant because I like to mess about, you know I like to, uh, be silly et cetera, you know? But he, he came to me and, and uh, we, we worked together and my take on this story is, I was commentating at the time with a great guy called Rob Cox who, who lives in Thailand who knows everything about Muay Thai. Rob Cox knows everything.

Liam Harrison 17:32 Everything.

Vinny Shoreman 17:32 Everything. He's the, like the king. Simple.And I was commentating with him. Now, Liam came to me and, and I, I wanted to put a word in that would, that would, like, keep him strong, so it was warrior. Now, what was really weird is I was commentating on the ... uh, you can watch it on YouTube. When I'm commentating on the fight, he looks at me at round four, 'cause I can see him, and he looks through his co- his trainer, Richard Smith, and Andy House, and his cousin, who's a five-time world champion as well, so it's in the family. And he looks over at me, and he goes, "Warrior." He looked straight in my eyes.

Liam Harrison 18:02 I don't even remember doing that, either. It were like, the, the state I was in when I were fighting, he couldn't hurt me. I mean, b- bearing in mind how badly he smashed me to pieces in the first fight, I didn't get hurt with anything. I was just ... it were like I were in some total state. I was so on point. I'm making him miss. I- I schooled him, really. I beat him pretty convincingly on points.

Joe Rogan 18:19 That's amazing.

Liam Harrison 18:20 And, um, I went to the after-party af- afterwards. I had a bottle of water. Sat down, passed out, collapsed. Ambulance came and got me, took me to hospital. I had a bad ... a really bad concussion.

Joe Rogan 18:30 Wow.

Liam Harrison 18:31 But it just goes, like, the state I was in, in the fight, and, um, I didn't feel a thing. Everything just ... I ... my eyes, ev- I didn't feel anything. It were weird. I- it was hard to explain.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Because you get up to-

Vinny Shoreman 18:41 So emotionally invested in it as well-

Liam Harrison 18:43 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 18:43 ... that when he ... 'cause you know I'm his biggest fan. When he came over, he said, "Thank you." I was like, (laughs) "Thank you."

Liam Harrison 18:47 Yeah, it were-

Joe Rogan 18:47 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 18:47 "...to be alive."

Liam Harrison 18:47 It were my dad's bir- it were my dad's birthday that day as well, so there were a lot ... it were on-

Joe Rogan 18:50 Oh.

Liam Harrison 18:50 ... my dad's birthday, bu-

Vinny Shoreman 18:51 Yeah. We ... I know his dad and-

Liam Harrison 18:52 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 18:52 ... and his family and that. And I was so overwhelmed by it. But look, I mean, it's only one aspect of it. He's got a fantastic coach in Richard Smith, and Lisa Horne, and Lisa Smith. Lisa ... she went to go home. Lisa, and all the gang's like Jordan, Badger-

Liam Harrison 19:06 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 19:06 ... you know, Andy, everyone, Steve Campbell, his strength and-

Liam Harrison 19:08 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 19:08 ... conditioning. He's got so many people around him. I'm just one little bit. But it was weird, 'cause when he went, "Warrior," and I said to him, "Do you remember saying, 'Warrior'?" He went, "No."

Liam Harrison 19:15 (Laughs) Yeah, I didn't remember it at all.

Vinny Shoreman 19:17 But-

Liam Harrison 19:17 I had to look back at the video and watch it. I said, "Are you-"

Joe Rogan 19:19 The concussion probably had a lot to do with it-

Vinny Shoreman 19:20 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 19:21 Maybe. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:22 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 19:22 I looked back at the video and there's a left hook in round four. My head nearly, like, goes woo-woo.

Joe Rogan 19:25 Ah.

Liam Harrison 19:25 Spins round and pat.

Joe Rogan 19:26 Think that was the one?

Liam Harrison 19:27 That's probably it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:28 Yeah. You know, it's interesting that that's catching on, mental coaching. It really is. And there's a lot of fighters that used to dismiss it that I know now are using mental coaches.

Vinny Shoreman 19:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:36 I've had conversations with them before in the past, and I was like, "What do you think about sports psychologists? What do you think about mental c- ... I don't need that shit." And then, years later, a loss or two later, their mind's in a weird place, and then they, they decide, "Okay, I need something like that."

Vinny Shoreman 19:51 Yeah, it's a- it ... uh, the thing is, I think that fights are won and lost in the changing rooms. I think that ... or, in the locker room, as you say. You know, one little ... it's like, uh, a little, tiny bit of anthrax if thrown in a, in a, a reservoir of poison in a whole city. And I think that's what he does mentally.

Liam Harrison 20:04 I've seen fighters in the dressing room who I've trained with in the gym, and they have been so strong, had so much power in the gym. They've been the best ever, and I've seen them in the changing rooms, and I've seen them start to go to theirself, "Oh, gonna be hard this, isn't it?" (mimics heart thumping)

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 20:17 "Oh, he's strong, isn't he?" And I can see him just starting to-

Joe Rogan 20:20 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 20:20 ... deflate and-

Joe Rogan 20:21 (coughing) Yeah.

Liam Harrison 20:22 ... change. And a lot of fighters do have that problem, and, um-

Joe Rogan 20:25 Dwarfed by the moment-

Liam Harrison 20:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:26 ... it's called.

Liam Harrison 20:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:27 Yeah. That's a common thing with everything.

Vinny Shoreman 20:29 With his anxiety.

Joe Rogan 20:29 With any kind of performance, anything-

Liam Harrison 20:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:31 ... where you're doing something that's difficult. But fighting has such dire physical consequences-

Vinny Shoreman 20:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:37 ... that the, the overwhelming anxiety and the pressure just ... you, you see it so many times, guys who are really good fighters-

Vinny Shoreman 20:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:45 ... that they have panic attacks in the dressing room.

Liam Harrison 20:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:46 They just-

Vinny Shoreman 20:46 Uh, it's-

Joe Rogan 20:46 ... they can't handle it.

Vinny Shoreman 20:47 It's like interviews as well. I mean, you get such a, uh, a, a diverse mix of clients that it, it's everything ... it's what y- it means to you, isn't it? So that, your fight could ... against whoever, the hardest fighters, Thai boxers in the world that they keep matching you with.

Liam Harrison 21:01 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 21:02 And, um, and, and your job or your, your interview or, or your, like Mikey, the, the lines that you have to do or your show. I, I think it's all relative to you, you know? And anxiety's a big scourge.

Joe Rogan 21:12 Yeah, any time you have to do anything difficult-

Vinny Shoreman 21:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 21:14 ... anxiety comes into play.

Vinny Shoreman 21:15 Yeah. It does.

Joe Rogan 21:15 But it just doesn't come into play in anything remotely cl- ex- except war.

Liam Harrison 21:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:20 It's like war is, like, the highest level of it.

Vinny Shoreman 21:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 And then pass- you get ... below that is, like, probably police officers and, you know, first responders.

Vinny Shoreman 21:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Then it's fighters.

Vinny Shoreman 21:29 Indeed.

Joe Rogan 21:29 It's like there's nothing like it.

Vinny Shoreman 21:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:31 That walk to the fucking ring, you know?

Vinny Shoreman 21:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:33 I mean, and you're just thinking about, "Did I do enough? Did I sleep enough? Did I eat right?"

Liam Harrison 21:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:37 You know?

Vinny Shoreman 21:38 Yeah. It ... and it's ... and I ... you see it. I see so many ... And that's why I g- I've kinda got into it as well, you know, with, with different things, is that I saw so much potential. See, I, I ... you know, the first time ... (laughs) one of the first times I met him, I was training someone to fight him.

Joe Rogan 21:53 Oh, wow.

Liam Harrison 21:53 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 21:53 And I was like, "Right, listen, he's only a kid, so what you gotta do, get in his face and punch him in the face hard."

Liam Harrison 21:59 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 21:59 "As often as you can. He'll soon quit."

Liam Harrison 22:01 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 22:02 How wrong was I? (laughs)

Liam Harrison 22:03 You're only 15.

Joe Rogan 22:05 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 22:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:05 Who was the ... how old was the other guy?

Vinny Shoreman 22:06 Uh-

Liam Harrison 22:07 20- 28.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Oh, Jesus.

Vinny Shoreman 22:08 What was his name? What was his name?

Liam Harrison 22:09 Mark Castelen.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Si-

Vinny Shoreman 22:10 Mark, from Liverpool, yeah.

Liam Harrison 22:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:11 You fought a fucking 28-year-old when you were 15?

Liam Harrison 22:14 I ... Right. I, I fight at 65 kilo now. My first fight were at 60 kilo when I were 14, so I've always been big for my age. And then when I got to 15, I just stopped growing, um, so when I were 14, I had, like, a beard, and I looked like a yeti and all sorts.

Joe Rogan 22:28 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 22:28 And I was b- uh, big in school. So I were having to fight old, a lot older people. I'm having to fight men and, um ... so I was, like, my f- I think when I were 14, one of my first fights without any protection on, I had to fight a 28-year-old. And, um, I went my first 29 th- pro fights all unbeaten. It wasn't until I fought a Thai champion and, um, I got a bit of an hiding called ... you called Duwell that I realized, "Oh, I have to change up my, my game plan here and have to go to Thailand and, like, learn how they do it, fight like them."

Joe Rogan 22:55 What is the difference? What is the difference when you, when you train in England versus when you train in Thailand and how they fight? What is the difference?

Liam Harrison 23:02 Well, over there, I, I, uh, I stayed there for about 18 months, in Thailand, and I just lived in the gym like the Thais did. So, woke up in the morning, we went running, came back, pad work, bit of clinch. Not too intense in the morning, but then the afternoon session, free in the afternoon, scorching hot heat, three till six. I mean, most classes in England, they might be, what, an hour, an hour and a half? These were three hours, intense. You keep your-

Joe Rogan 23:23 Second workout of the day, too.

Liam Harrison 23:24 Yeah, yeah. So you're skipping for half an hour. Straight off of that, straight on the pads, seven, eight rounds. Straight off of that, straight into sparring. Straight off of that, straight into clinching with the Thais. And anyone who knows how strong the Thais are at clinching as well, it was absolute torture every single day. Um, but I loved it and I don't think without ...... doing that, I would definitely not have been able to compete with the top level fighters that I have done. Um, now, though, how much Richard has projes- progressed with my gym in England, I feel like we've got so many top level fighters now that, who are at that level, I feel like I don't have to go over there to do it anymore.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 23:56 We've got the stable in Bad Company now. We've got the knowledge, we've got the experience, and we've got the- the- the- Andy Owson, Jordan Watson, young Joe Craven coming through. We've got all these strong, strong animals in the gym that, um, we're probably one of... Well, we are. We have been one of the best gyms in Europe for a long time now.

Joe Rogan 24:11 Now, do you work out the same amount of time? Do you do a morning session and then do a three-hour afternoon session too?

Liam Harrison 24:17 Yeah, so what I'll do in the morning, I'll go down, I'll probably do kick pads with, with my boss Richard, uh, and then maybe a bit of play sparring with Jordan or a run. So then in the evening... I've got PTs all day in between this, though. That's the only difference.

Joe Rogan 24:29 Personal training, you say?

Liam Harrison 24:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:30 Okay.

Liam Harrison 24:30 I teach as well, like, full time.

Joe Rogan 24:32 Right.

Liam Harrison 24:32 So I might have five hours of PTs to do-

Joe Rogan 24:34 Wow.

Liam Harrison 24:34 ... in between all this. It's obviously-

Joe Rogan 24:36 That's exhausting.

Liam Harrison 24:37 Yeah, it is, it is.

Joe Rogan 24:38 Especially the way you teach.

Liam Harrison 24:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:39 You get very intense.

Liam Harrison 24:40 I'm- I like to be hands-on and-

Joe Rogan 24:42 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 24:42 ... uh, to get involved. And, um, it is, it is tiring. I just have to make sure I like me diet at some point with stuff like that. Because if I have a day where I, where I eat shit and then I'm exhausted-

Joe Rogan 24:50 Right.

Liam Harrison 24:50 ... and I can't get the most out of my second training session. And then it'll get to five o'clock, I'll go run again, kick pads again, and that's when Richard will do, like, the-

Joe Rogan 24:57 So you run twice in a day?

Liam Harrison 24:59 Some days.

Joe Rogan 24:59 Wow!

Liam Harrison 25:00 Yeah, I don't run far though. I'll do more five, five Ks but fast.

Joe Rogan 25:03 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 25:03 The way I see it with Muay Thai, it's explosive stuff, so I do more, I do more hill sprints and more sprint work-

Joe Rogan 25:07 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 25:07 ... than actual long distance. The only time I do my really long distance is if I need to drop my weight down drastically. But we- when you're fighting five three-minute rounds, it's not a long time. It's like baba-bang, baba-bang. So I do more explosive work, like hill sprints with my strength coach and stuff like that, and I... Plyometric explosive workouts. Um, that's the only thing that's missing in Thailand, really, the strength and conditioning. But a lot of gyms out there now are getting hold of that and-

Joe Rogan 25:31 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 25:31 ... changing up their, like-

Vinny Shoreman 25:31 Superpro's doing it-

Liam Harrison 25:32 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 25:32 ... where I go, w- with Robbie Timms and, and Shiroon who's trained, like I just said, that A- Alistair Overeem's over there, uh, and Badr, and Badr's been there a few times. A lot of the Dutch go over there, uh, in Koh Samui, and they're, they've got a, uh, a CrossFit place now, they've got, like, a new sort of Metafit place.

Liam Harrison 25:48 Yeah, so has Yokkao as well. They've got it going on now-

Vinny Shoreman 25:50 Yeah, yeah, the all-

Liam Harrison 25:50 ... like Petch, Petch under there, I think.

Vinny Shoreman 25:50 Yeah, Yokkao Center as well.

Liam Harrison 25:51 And a lot of them are-

Vinny Shoreman 25:52 So a lot of them are catching up, you know, and, and, you know, doing it over there as well. So they, they, they're kinda catching up. I know that Bamchamerka and all the, uh, Buakaw, Buakaw Stannack is doing a lot of-

Liam Harrison 26:00 Yeah, Buakaw does a lot of it.

Vinny Shoreman 26:01 ... his strength and conditioning and stuff.

Joe Rogan 26:02 He looks like he does a lot of it.

Liam Harrison 26:04 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 26:04 Yeah, he does.

Joe Rogan 26:04 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 26:05 I was at his last fight, um, against Johnny Risco, and he lost. Uh, Johnny Risco was amazing that night. He was just on him, didn't give him any rest, but like-

Joe Rogan 26:12 How long ago was this?

Vinny Shoreman 26:13 Um, about... How long ago was it?

Liam Harrison 26:15 Last week, wasn't it?

Vinny Shoreman 26:15 Uh, last week.

Joe Rogan 26:16 Yeah, last week. How old's Buakaw now?

Liam Harrison 26:17 35, maybe now.

Vinny Shoreman 26:18 35.

Joe Rogan 26:19 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 26:19 He's go- he's coming to the twilight now.

Joe Rogan 26:21 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 26:21 Yeah, yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 26:21 He's a legend though.

Joe Rogan 26:22 Yeah, he is.

Vinny Shoreman 26:22 Legendary fight.

Joe Rogan 26:23 Yes. I got a chance to see him fight in LA.

Vinny Shoreman 26:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:25 When they had, uh... They've had some fights, they tried to do some pay-per-view events and stuff like that out here.

Vinny Shoreman 26:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:31 It's just, for whatever reason, it never caught on.

Vinny Shoreman 26:33 Yeah, we did a Muay Thai in America in, uh, uh-

Liam Harrison 26:35 We had one Andy Fong.

Vinny Shoreman 26:35 Yeah, Andy Fong.

Liam Harrison 26:36 Yeah, yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 26:36 Twice on it, uh, uh, and that's how I met-

Liam Harrison 26:38 And they were good shows, them as well, so I don't-

Vinny Shoreman 26:39 They were wicked shows.

Joe Rogan 26:39 Yeah, real-

Liam Harrison 26:40 All real good fights.

Vinny Shoreman 26:41 Yeah, they were wicked shows. That's where I met Brian Doble, who's our friend who's looked after us here. And, um-

Joe Rogan 26:46 Fontana, California in the house.

Vinny Shoreman 26:47 Yes, sir. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:48 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 26:48 Double dose, that's where our seminar is on Saturday, our last one. And, um, yeah, it was... It- it's- it's a shame because I love, we love it here, don't we? (laughs)

Liam Harrison 26:56 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 26:56 We don't wanna go home.

Joe Rogan 26:57 Yeah, I wish, I really wish we could, I could figure out a way to get it to catch on. I just don't understand what's wrong.

Liam Harrison 27:02 I guess it is getting there with the, with the MMA and stuff, like-

Joe Rogan 27:05 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 27:05 ... I remember the first time... I ever fought main event on a show in England and I got, like, paid, like this much. But now I'm at headlining shows and I'm getting paid, like, up there now. So I, I... There's a lot of people that are saying, "It's going nowhere, it's going nowhere."

Joe Rogan 27:18 Just bring that mic in front of you.

Liam Harrison 27:19 I've watched it, like, go from there right to where it is now in my career. And where it's come from is massive, is m- massive gap from where it was.

Joe Rogan 27:28 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 27:28 And if it does keep going like this, it will eventually get there, but it's just slowly, slowly, slowly.

Joe Rogan 27:33 We've always seen much more Muay Thai talent come out of England and out of, uh, Europe-

Vinny Shoreman 27:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:37 ... than we have out of America, for whatever reason. There's been some standout fighters in America, but it's the big shows. There's, like, a lot of big shows in Europe. And that's just really never been the case here.

Liam Harrison 27:46 Yeah, I mean, like, like Yokkao is the one now. E- everyone wants to fight on Yokkao. I'm nothing to do, to do with the promotion, I'm, I'm just a Yokkao fighter, and I get people messaging me all the time, "Oh, how do I get to fight on Yokkao? Who do, who do I contact?" And I'm hono- I mean, like, hundreds of messages all the time of people asking. Like, everyone does, that's the show that everyone wants, to be honest. The, the biggest, outside of the main stadium ones in Thailand, the biggest in the world by, by a country mile.

Joe Rogan 28:10 Do they do, um, internet pay-per-view?

Vinny Shoreman 28:12 No, they don't. And, um, I think that's something they should look at, really.

Liam Harrison 28:15 Yeah, yeah, I've said this for ages.

Vinny Shoreman 28:16 Yeah, uh, because I think a- as, as a... Because even, even though it's big, it's small, if that makes sense-

Joe Rogan 28:23 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 28:23 ... in, in, in, uh, numbers that come to the, come to the show. It's like, it's like 3,000 or something like that-

Joe Rogan 28:28 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 28:28 ... which isn't massive, but it's always jam packed. And the thing is, when you're selling tickets for a show, people say, "Oh, I can buy it for, like, f- uh, five quid and sit at home and watch it instead." And I think there's always that awareness.

Liam Harrison 28:38 Yeah, this should be an international, then maybe, maybe a trans-

Vinny Shoreman 28:40 Yeah, geoblock.

Liam Harrison 28:40 Yeah, yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 28:41 Yeah, geoblock 'cause, um, I know that Enfusion do that, who I work for.

Joe Rogan 28:44 Geoblock? What do you mean, like-

Vinny Shoreman 28:45 Yeah, that, that, it means that you can't watch it in your country.

Liam Harrison 28:49 But everywhere else worldwide.

Vinny Shoreman 28:50 You can watch it everywhere else, but if you want to watch it, unblock it.

Liam Harrison 28:50 So if you think about it, everyone in America-

Joe Rogan 28:52 Oh, so the people who go to the, to see it.

Vinny Shoreman 28:54 So you buy tickets.

Joe Rogan 28:54 I see what you're saying.

Vinny Shoreman 28:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:55 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where does it air? In... Does it air on television? Like-

Vinny Shoreman 28:59 No, it, it's a, it's... They, they, they bring the... We do the show, and then they put the fights out, and they, they kind of feed the fights out over YouTube.

Liam Harrison 29:07 Oh.

Vinny Shoreman 29:07 And, and they yo- I think they may put it on their Facebook page or their-

Liam Harrison 29:10 But the fights on that show, I mean, every single fight is a war. Every single fight could headline any show around the world.

Vinny Shoreman 29:17 We have got some, we have got some right kids coming through. I'm a massive fan of Stuart Stabler.

Liam Harrison 29:19 There's never, there's never a boring show, is there?

Vinny Shoreman 29:21 No.

Liam Harrison 29:21 Not ever.

Vinny Shoreman 29:22 And e- even when Liam's not on it, which is, uh, you know, obviously the highlight for me 'cause he's my mate and he brings, he brings thunder, doesn't he? He's a storm. But we've got some new kids coming through that are just... (exhales) Like I just mentioned Stuart Stabler and these Joe Craven and these, these kids coming through that are just... I watched him taking on his style and, and taking on their own style, and there, there's some real dangerous kids coming through.

Joe Rogan 29:43 Now, I would imagine with your style, it's, your s- your style is so physically intensive and so aggressive that, like, you're... How well do you monitor your diet?

Liam Harrison 29:54 I have to do with... when I'm close to a fight, um, if I don't, like I say, I've got... I'm gonna have no energy. And they're like-

Joe Rogan 30:00 Do you cut weight?

Liam Harrison 30:02 Yeah, I used to cut a lot more than I do now. I... I... I might do about eight pounds now, but I might start the f- the fight, um, camp and be only 10 pounds over.

Joe Rogan 30:09 But that's not... that's nothing crazy.

Liam Harrison 30:11 No, not a lot at all.

Joe Rogan 30:12 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 30:12 Um, my last four or five fights, the day before the weigh-in, I've been on weight without having to get in the sauna or without having to go run in the sweatsuit or anything like that. As I've got older, I've got wiser. Um-

Joe Rogan 30:21 Yeah. You real... you just realized it was draining you too much?

Liam Harrison 30:24 Yeah, of course. Especially as I got older. When I was younger, I could get away with it. I might be able to get in the sauna and lose like three, four kilo at the weigh-in and still get in there and, and knock someone out or stop someone. But as I... I had a few mistakes as I got older as well, growing, where I missed weight, and it made me just think, "What am I doing here? Get on point with it." Um, because as soon as you start to do stuff like that, promoters don't wanna work with you.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Right.

Liam Harrison 30:43 You get a bad rep. And, um, this were about seven, eight years ago now, and I haven't done it... I haven't done it since. I've made sure I've been on point with everything. To be honest, it's down to me- my missus a lot as well. She looks after me, um. She... and she goes out and works hard all day, but whenever I get in from gym, about half seven, eight o'clock, there's healthy food there for me and stuff. Um-

Joe Rogan 31:00 What, what kind of food do you eat? Do you, do you specify? I mean, do you have like a-

Liam Harrison 31:03 Not really. A lot of people cut out carbs and stuff. I, I'm training so hard and sweating all day and burning so much calories in my PTs and stuff. I don't need to cut out my carbs, um-

Joe Rogan 31:11 That's a big factor. Like, people need to understand that when they're talking about low carb diets, it really dependent upon how much exercise you do.

Liam Harrison 31:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 If you're running twice a day and you're doing three-hour workouts in the afternoon, like, you're gonna need some carbohydrates.

Liam Harrison 31:23 Yeah, exactly. I don't need to cut 'em out. Um, even in the last week, a lot of people have been saying, "Oh, it's last week, fight camp, weigh-ins coming up, I need to cut my carbs out." I'll still get up in the morning and have a massive bowl of porridge. I still have rice with my dinner and my fish and my salad and stuff like that as well. I don't need to cut it out. Um, but like I said, that's down to how much work I'm doing-

Joe Rogan 31:39 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 31:39 ... and stuff like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:40 The amount you're burning. I mean, Jesus Christ, the amount of calories you must be burning is insane.

Liam Harrison 31:44 Well, I had my, I had my watch on the other day, and I think I'd done something like almost nearly 5,000 or something ridiculous, and I wore-

Joe Rogan 31:49 5,000 calories?

Liam Harrison 31:50 I wore it all day from me training and me PTs and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 31:53 That's insane.

Liam Harrison 31:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Just think about eating 5,000 calories a day.

Guest 31:57 Yeah, exactly. You can't.

Joe Rogan 31:57 You wanna throw up. (laughs)

Liam Harrison 31:57 Yeah, yeah. You can't.

Joe Rogan 31:58 (laughs) Yeah, that's crazy. So w- with... d- do you limit the amount of, uh, personal training you do because like-

Liam Harrison 32:04 As, as the fight gets closer, I have to.

Joe Rogan 32:06 Yeah, I would imagine.

Liam Harrison 32:06 Um, if I'm not... got a fight coming up, I'll only train once a day just to keep sharp and keep on top, top of me game. Um, I might be able to do seven, seven hours, like, no problem. And, um, but as the fight gets closer and closer, I'll cut down and cut down and cut down because obviously I don't want my body being tired. I need to be... I've got a lot to lose every time I fight, um.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Right.

Liam Harrison 32:25 I've got... I'm, I'm, I'm like... this is a brand now with these seminars and stuff as well, so I need to make sure I'm going in there as on point as I can be, um.

Joe Rogan 32:33 So you think about it that way. You don't think about... you think about it as like you're basically a business.

Liam Harrison 32:38 Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. And, um, I've got a lot to... I've got a lot riding on it every time I fight, uh. I think that has been for a long, a long time now. I mean, like all the country gets behind me, but there's a lot of player haters out there as well that wanna see me lose and they love it when I lose and, um-

Joe Rogan 32:51 Yeah.

Guest 32:51 Tell me who they are.

Liam Harrison 32:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:53 I will hunt them down with your bow. (imitates arrow firing)

Liam Harrison 32:56 (laughs)

Guest 32:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:56 (laughs) Well, there's no getting around that, man. If you're doing well, there's gonna be people that hate you.

Liam Harrison 33:00 Exactly, exactly.

Guest 33:00 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 33:00 And a lot of it, really, they just hate themselves. That's really what it is.

Liam Harrison 33:03 There you go. I mean, look, it's-

Guest 33:05 Perception is projection.

Joe Rogan 33:05 Well, yeah, I mean, what it is is they see someone who's out there as exceptional, and it makes them compare their own life to this guy who's out there smashing everybody with 108 fights and they go, "Fuck that guy."

Liam Harrison 33:16 (laughs)

Guest 33:16 He's a pussy.

Joe Rogan 33:17 Well, I put a video on of me kicking the pads the other day, and some... I got about four or five... Well, I've probably got loads more than that actually, but there were four or five comments that I noticed saying, "Kicking that wrong." I thought, "I'll just click on the profiles and have a look at them." They're all just selfies of themselves eating chocolate bars- (laughs)

Liam Harrison 33:31 (laughs)

Guest 33:31 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 33:31 ... and one of them with a dog. They're all about 175 kilos, if you know what I mean.

Joe Rogan 33:35 Someone told you that you're kicking wrong?

Liam Harrison 33:37 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Guest 33:37 And this... we put a video up, we put a video up the other day, I was holding boxing pads for Liam while he's out here.

Liam Harrison 33:42 (laughs)

Guest 33:42 I just hold boxing pads-

Joe Rogan 33:43 I saw that.

Guest 33:44 And someone said-

Joe Rogan 33:44 Holy shit.

Guest 33:44 ... "Your... your... you're drop... you're dropping your left hand." I was like, "All right then, thanks fucking Sugar Ray Leonard."

Liam Harrison 33:49 And then they said, "Oh, if you ever have a fight, you're gonna get knocked out."

Guest 33:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:51 Oh, God.

Liam Harrison 33:52 Even if I have a fight.

Joe Rogan 33:52 If he has 109th fight. (laughs)

Guest 33:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:56 It's just hilarious that someone would actually say to you that you're kicking wrong. Like, if anybody... all my friends out there that get flustered by people criticizing them on social media, I wanna point them to that.

Guest 34:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:08 Liam fucking Harrison, someone's telling him that he's kicking wrong.

Liam Harrison 34:13 (laughs)

Guest 34:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:13 That makes me wanna cry-

Guest 34:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:15 ... from laughing so hard. That's how fucking stupid some people are.

Guest 34:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:19 But that just shows you that when you have an open forum where anyone can comment-

Guest 34:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:24 ... anyone can say something, you're gonna run into a certain amount of those people.

Liam Harrison 34:27 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 34:27 There's no getting around it.

Liam Harrison 34:28 Yeah, definitely.

Joe Rogan 34:29 I mean, you just can't... you can't look at the comments, you know? You can't, you can't read that shit, you know?

Guest 34:33 You just, you just get assassinated from, from all, all corners.

Liam Harrison 34:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:36 Well, the thing is, those people, they might not even mean what they're saying. They just, they're... it's verbal diarrhea. They're just blah. They're just angry, they're upset.

Guest 34:45 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 34:45 And the thing is, though, even if I looked at someone's video and I thought their technique wasn't on point or anything like that, I wouldn't have gone on and write it.

Joe Rogan 34:52 Right, of course.

Liam Harrison 34:52 I mean, what gives you the right to go on and, like, try and put someone down or putting someone... Do you know what I mean? It's just... it's-

Guest 34:57 Well, this is what I was gonna say is that-

Joe Rogan 34:59 You ring me though. "Vinnie, Vinnie."

Guest 35:00 "Have you seen this?"

Liam Harrison 35:01 (laughs)

Guest 35:01 Fucking hell.

Joe Rogan 35:01 Of course, if it was a competitor or someone like that.

Guest 35:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:04 And, you know, maybe someone's getting undue accolades-

Liam Harrison 35:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:07 ... and you're like, "This ain't shit."

Guest 35:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:09 You know? Or if someone you're supposed to fight-

Liam Harrison 35:10 But not when... not when you're like 420 pounds, sat around just eating burgers all day.

Joe Rogan 35:14 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 35:14 It's ridiculous. Do you know what I mean?

Guest 35:15 They can eat more than you though.

Liam Harrison 35:16 Good point.

Guest 35:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:17 Maybe, maybe not. You eat 5,000 fucking calories, man, you know?

Guest 35:22 It's true.

Joe Rogan 35:22 I've sit down with some fighters and you watch them eat and you're like, "How... where the fuck is all that going?"

Liam Harrison 35:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:27 You know?

Guest 35:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:28 I mean, there's very few things in life that burn off more calories than throwing kicks.

Guest 35:32 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:33 You know? And especially the way you throw them. And like... (imitates loud yelling) Like that. Just the amount of fucking energy you're generating.

Liam Harrison 35:41 Yeah, I mean, when I'm on the pads and stuff like that, every training session, I put 100% in, especially when I'm on the pads.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Your pads... your pad work is fucking awesome to watch. It's very inspirational. It's very fun.

Liam Harrison 35:51 Obviously as well with that, that's just a little clip of what I'm doing on the pads. I mean, my old pad work ain't just me trying... Well, sometimes it's just me trying to smash the pads to pieces, but obviously there's a lot more technical aspects to it.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Right.

Liam Harrison 36:00 That's just like a little clip where I will... I look for what someone's filming like, "Oh, that was good," so I'll put it up.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Right.

Liam Harrison 36:04 But obviously there's bits where Rich is stopping me and putting me right on what I'm doing wrong, technique-

Joe Rogan 36:08 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 36:09 ... working the game plan and stuff like that. They're obviously just little, little snippets that I just put up, um, of me doing things wrong, apparently, but that's... Obviously there's a sparring now with a different technical side to it as well as that one.... but I mean, that is like my style, but I don't fight totally just like that, just smash, smash, smash. Like, you gotta be smart about it.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Of course. Yeah.

Liam Harrison 36:27 Especially at the level I fight at. If I just started smashing things like that, I'm just gonna walk onto a shot. That's, uh, that, that level, it's gonna be game over.

Joe Rogan 36:34 Yeah. There's no way. Now, do you, w- in between fights, do you, um, train with people w- that have other styles or different styles? Like, maybe some Kyokushin guys or someone who's doing something different?

Liam Harrison 36:45 I train a lot of, uh, MMA fighters at the minute. Um, I've got quite a lot of guys coming to me. I've got... I've been doing a bit of work with Matt Deaccisi from the UFC. He's been training me a little bit. Um, he's out in Florida now, training there. Um, there's a gym in Leeds where I'm from called AVT. It's like a real hotbed, some top, uh, MMA guys out there. I've got a young kid called Louis Lee Scott, 17 years old, 7-0 in MMA. She'd been doing Muay Thai, but he's gonna be an absolute superstar in MMA, no doubt. Um, his style, what he's got going on is so good because he's got the standup, um, that we were, but we found like a medium to pull it into the MMA. So his eyes are on point, his movement's on point.

Joe Rogan 37:24 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 37:24 But he still finds himself in the positions to land the Muay Thai strikes with all the power. So generate the power and still be out of there, uh, fast enough and quick enough not to be getting taken down and losing balance and falling all over place. Um, so watch out for him. He's gonna be definitely-

Vinny Shoreman 37:37 Yeah. He's a good kid.

Liam Harrison 37:38 ... yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 37:38 He's just signed with, uh, MTK.

Liam Harrison 37:40 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 37:40 Which is, uh, Mack the Knife Global, which I'm gonna be working with. They've got boxers, so I work with the mind side of that. So they're getting onto it now. But they've also gone into the MMA side.

Liam Harrison 37:48 Till signed with them as well.

Vinny Shoreman 37:49 Yeah. Darren Till.

Liam Harrison 37:50 Darren Till signed with them.

Vinny Shoreman 37:50 So he's, he's... They've signed them too. Like, he's got... They've got boxers, they've got Billy Joe Saunders, who I know you like.

Liam Harrison 37:55 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 37:55 And Tyson Fury and blah, blah, blah. But they've also got an MMA side run by Kieran Keddle. And, um, yeah, they've just signed Louis. Louis is exceptional.

Liam Harrison 38:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:02 Well, the UFC is now coming to Liverpool.

Vinny Shoreman 38:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:04 And Darren Till is going to be in the headline.

Vinny Shoreman 38:06 Mike Hodson, you know, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:06 But he doesn't have a fight yet, correct?

Vinny Shoreman 38:08 No.

Liam Harrison 38:08 Correct. Nothing confirmed yet, no.

Vinny Shoreman 38:09 Not yet.

Joe Rogan 38:09 I'm hoping it's gonna be Usman. They're ta- Kamaru Usman-

Vinny Shoreman 38:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:12 ... and him are going back and forth on, on Twitter.

Vinny Shoreman 38:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:14 That's good. That guy gets no love. Kamaru Usman, 7-0 in the UFC, smashes everybody. Everybody's scared of him. Nobody calls him out, ever.

Liam Harrison 38:21 I don't think... Yeah. Till, I'm pretty sure Till will be scared of him. He'd love it, Till, wouldn't he?

Vinny Shoreman 38:24 Yeah, he loves it.

Liam Harrison 38:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:25 Yeah. Till, uh, Till's-

Liam Harrison 38:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:27 They've been going back and forth.

Liam Harrison 38:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:28 I think Till is the guy for him, it's, uh-

Liam Harrison 38:29 Yeah. Definitely. What a fight that'll be.

Joe Rogan 38:31 And the standup wise, Till has a massive advantage. And then on the ground, Usman should have an advantage.

Vinny Shoreman 38:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:36 So it's, it's a very interesting fight.

Liam Harrison 38:38 Yeah. Interesting fight.

Joe Rogan 38:38 Usman's a fucking tank too. That guy's a fucking animal, man.

Vinny Shoreman 38:42 (clears throat) I'm-

Liam Harrison 38:42 Well, well, yeah, I've not seen too much of him, but, um-

Joe Rogan 38:44 It's 'cause everybody's scared of him.

Liam Harrison 38:45 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:45 He can't get fights.

Liam Harrison 38:46 Well, that, there you go.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Usman is a fucking stud. I mean, that guy is no joke. He, he's like... There's very few people calling that guy out.

Vinny Shoreman 38:53 Yeah. But Till will be loving that.

Liam Harrison 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:54 Oh, yeah. Till's the one that's calling him out.

Liam Harrison 38:56 Yeah. Th- th- yeah. There you go. Like, he thrives on stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 38:58 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 38:58 I've known Darren since he were 16 years old. And, uh, we used to, we used to train together, like Muay Thai back in the day. He used to come over to my gym, Bad Company, with his coach. And we used to work together and then pad work him and do bits with him. And he's always had that attitude. And, um, never been scared of anyone. Always have been like, "Yeah, whatever. Bring it on. Bring it on."

Vinny Shoreman 39:14 He-

Joe Rogan 39:15 I believe him. There's, there hasn't been a single guy in the UFC with one fight that's got as much hype as that guy.

Vinny Shoreman 39:20 You know-

Joe Rogan 39:20 One fight fights Cowboy, smashes him.

Liam Harrison 39:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:23 I mean, you see what he did to Cowboy. Cowboys were class.

Liam Harrison 39:25 Yeah. But everyone knew then he's the real, the real deal as well, and-

Vinny Shoreman 39:27 He's always been special. He's one of these kids, like when I seen him growing up, he's one of these kids that you just come to... And he's special. And I mean, the city is behind him, everyone, 'cause he comes to our gym where I train, Four Corners Gym with John Gillies and, uh, Bully and all them and Mick and Alan. And he, he tr- he comes down there, sticks his head in, but he doesn't train. But I haven't trained there, but he, he comes and sees us and he's a great guy. But his coach, Colin Heron, I grew up with kind of, 'cause we, I was training with a Thai guy, Master Sken, and we used to do demos and stuff, 'cause believe it or not, I used to be all right. And, uh, but Colin was always a little bit better. And since then he's got Carlin, Carlon Gym, and he, he's had UFC fighters from Liverpool. But it's, now he's got this star in Darren and the whole city is, it gets, it goes... A bit like giving leads, they just get swamped by people asking for 50 cents each.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Now was this when Darren was fighting Muay Thai that he became popular?

Vinny Shoreman 40:14 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 40:15 Yeah. Well, when he fought Muay Thai, didn't he?

Vinny Shoreman 40:16 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 40:16 But, um, he were always like one of the most naturally talented kids you would ever see.

Vinny Shoreman 40:20 He's with Simon Audley then a different coach.

Liam Harrison 40:21 Yeah. He used to come down to our gym, and he'd have a fight coming up and, um, he would just be wiping the floor with everyone. He didn't even really train hard back then either. He used to come down. And a real young kid, he'd mess around, he'd run, run riot and didn't, really hardly train, but still turn up, fight and win. Since then, someone with that natural talent, he's now got that dedication, that hard work. So someone who's that naturally talented and who's gonna work that hard, that's gonna be a force to be reckoned with.

Vinny Shoreman 40:45 And a southpaw.

Liam Harrison 40:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:46 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 40:47 Forced to be reckoned with.

Vinny Shoreman 40:48 And a southpaw.

Joe Rogan 40:48 When he stepped in and caught Cowboy with that left elbow.

Liam Harrison 40:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Did you see, see that fight?

Vinny Shoreman 40:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Liam Harrison 40:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:52 When he stepped in and just bang!

Vinny Shoreman 40:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Just drove up that elbow and smashed Cowboy's nose. You're like, "Wow, that was fast."

Vinny Shoreman 40:59 He cuts to the skin so quick as well.

Joe Rogan 41:01 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 41:01 Well, Colin, his trainer, he was a... He, he trained Murdequan, Murdequan, is it? TaeKwonDo?

Liam Harrison 41:06 Murdequan, yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 41:07 Yeah. He was like a black belt at 11 or something like that.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 41:10 And, you know, he's just... Colin takes no bullshit, you know. Uh, uh, Colin just says, "That's the way." He's a bit like Richard. "That's the way it is. That's what you gotta do. That's what you're doing." And since that, since Darren's had that influence in his life, like Liam said, and the, obviously the story about him going Brazil, he's just, uh, he's just been another level.

Joe Rogan 41:28 What makes a guy naturally talented? Like you take a guy like Darren Till, like when you say naturally talented, like what is it about a guy like that that just picks things up quicker?

Liam Harrison 41:37 I don't know. It's, it's hard to explain. Some people just walk into Bad Company gym, and they'll have two, three lessons and they'll just be able to... They'll have that flow, the movement, the rhythm and stuff like that. And Darren was like that ever since... I remember when he first started, I remember his coach saying, "I've got this kid, you need to see him. You need to come and look at him. Southpaw. Should see him kick. He's only been training a few months." And I, when I saw him, I'm like, "He looks like he's a seasoned pro of five, six years of training." We've had plenty like that walk in our gym at Bad Company. And they'll come in, they'll have a few fights and they're, "Oh, it's all right, this." But as soon as it gets hard and the level steps up and they realize how hard they have to work to actually compete at that level, that's the end of them. You don't really see them anymore. And it's like the biggest waste of talent you've ever seen. We've had plenty like that walk through our gym.

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 42:19 It's not many-

Joe Rogan 42:21 Talent's not enough.

Liam Harrison 42:22 Like... No, n- no, not when you get to that level.

Joe Rogan 42:24 No, it's not in the home.

Liam Harrison 42:24 It is to a- a certain level-

Joe Rogan 42:25 Right.

Liam Harrison 42:25 ... when you can get yourself out of jail. But when the level-

Joe Rogan 42:27 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 42:27 ... steps up and everyone's working hard and people who are as talented as you are working hard, then that's when you're gonna be in trouble. That's why Darren's gone off and done what he's done. That's why, and shown what he's all about.

Joe Rogan 42:39 There's this ki- uh, class my, my d- youngest daughter, she's seven, she takes, uh, martial arts, takes this mixed martial arts class. There's this five-year-old in this class, and they're doing drills on their bag. And I'm watching this five-year-old kick the bag. He's got his hands up high. He's moving like this. Da-da-bang! Turns the hip over perfect. Even his switch kick. And I'm watching this five-year-old, and I went over to his parents. And I went, "If I was a strike... If I was, like, uh, uh, a s- a coach that was looking to recruit a fighter-"

Liam Harrison 43:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:08 "... at a young age, I'd grab that fucking kid." Like, that kid's special. Like, there's something that he figured out at five. At five! All the other kids, you're looking at all the other kids in the class, they're flailing their arms all over the place.

Liam Harrison 43:20 (laughs) Not paying attention.

Joe Rogan 43:21 They're, they're kicking up. They're ba-

Liam Harrison 43:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 43:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:23 This fucking kid is like this. His hands are glued right below his eyes, like, bang, bang, crack, bang, bang, crack.

Liam Harrison 43:30 Well, our-

Joe Rogan 43:30 At five!

Liam Harrison 43:31 Our kids' class at Bud Company, I don't like training upstairs at the same time when they're on, 'cause all the technique is so good. It's embarrassing sometimes. You look at them all and you think, like, from 6 to 12, these are amazing. But like I say, it's only the ones that really want it, who are really willing-

Joe Rogan 43:44 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 43:44 ... to put the hard work in, who will go from the next level and the next level and the next level. 'Cause a lot drop off, no matter how talented they are.

Vinny Shoreman 43:50 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 43:50 Not a lot of people like having to go to that place where you need to go-

Joe Rogan 43:53 Right.

Liam Harrison 43:54 ... to get to a good level.

Joe Rogan 43:55 Yeah. He doesn't like people watching him when he can't do things well either.

Liam Harrison 43:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:59 Like when he's learning things, he likes to go over in the corner and practice things on his own. It's, like, very interesting-

Liam Harrison 44:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:03 ... when you watch, like, someone who's just got, like, a special inclination towards something.

Vinny Shoreman 44:06 There's a kid called Shay Williams from, uh, Liverpool. And all the blokes would talk about he's eight.

Joe Rogan 44:12 Eight?

Vinny Shoreman 44:12 I'm friends with his dad, Mick.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Eight?

Vinny Shoreman 44:13 Yeah, he's eight.

Joe Rogan 44:14 Everyone's talking about an eight-year-old. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 44:16 And everyone's, all these guys, you know, these big sort of strong, like, "All right, me fuckin', I don't know if you've seen that kid. He's fuckin' brilliant, that. Eight, eight years of age." Lovely kid, but he's just one of these kids that can do everything.

Liam Harrison 44:26 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 44:26 "Look, Dad, I can balance on one hand, and he went, "Wow."

Liam Harrison 44:28 I'll tell you what-

Joe Rogan 44:29 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 44:29 ... the best video on YouTube is that we saw the other day as well, them two young, uh, the black American kids.

Vinny Shoreman 44:34 Oh, yeah, the-

Joe Rogan 44:34 Oh, my gosh.

Liam Harrison 44:35 The one- the boxing coaches.

Vinny Shoreman 44:36 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:36 That kid's amazing.

Liam Harrison 44:37 Did you see that?

Joe Rogan 44:38 Yes.

Vinny Shoreman 44:38 Yes.

Liam Harrison 44:38 And the coach, and what he was saying, the one holding the pads.

Joe Rogan 44:40 He was right.

Liam Harrison 44:41 He knows more than most boxing trainers I've ever seen-

Vinny Shoreman 44:43 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 44:43 ... in my life. It was unbel-

Joe Rogan 44:43 And he's, like, five years old.

Liam Harrison 44:45 Yeah, exactly.

Vinny Shoreman 44:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Cre- and the hand speed. Pa-pa-pa-pa-pap.

Liam Harrison 44:47 Unbelievable.

Vinny Shoreman 44:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Pa-pa-pa-pa-pap. Amazing.

Liam Harrison 44:50 Yeah. Brilliant. The best video I've seen all year.

Vinny Shoreman 44:51 Yeah, his, his webkids-

Liam Harrison 44:52 That was absolutely amazing.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Yeah, that, whoever fucks with that kid in school-

Liam Harrison 44:56 Yeah, they're in trouble. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:56 ... that's a big problem. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 44:57 Maybe it's that kid that sent that thing saying you're dropping your left hand.

Liam Harrison 45:00 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 45:00 If it is him, he better fucking listen up.

Liam Harrison 45:02 If it is him, I, I, I'm sorry.

Vinny Shoreman 45:03 Yeah, he better listen up, man.

Liam Harrison 45:03 Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 45:04 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 45:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:06 You're getting, you're getting hated on by six-year-olds. (laughs)

Liam Harrison 45:08 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 45:08 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:09 It's, um, I think i- it's interesting today too as opposed to in the past that you can watch videos like that.

Vinny Shoreman 45:15 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 45:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:15 And then, you know, before, you'd have to, like, watch a VHS tape and sit down and analyze it and pause it. Like, now you could be at a fucking bus stop on your phone and you could watch world-class fighters instantly.

Vinny Shoreman 45:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Instantly.

Vinny Shoreman 45:27 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 45:27 The thing wi- the thing with that is as well though, the, with the internet, as well as being able to watch world-class fighters instantly-

Joe Rogan 45:32 Here's a kid.

Liam Harrison 45:33 What? Oh, there.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Look at this kid. That's hi- him and his dad, I guess. Look at that fucking technique!

Liam Harrison 45:37 (laughs) Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 45:40 Look, it's incredible. He ducks under, I mean, everything, blocking punches. Fucking amazing. And look at that, he goes to the body! That's crazy. I mean, he looks like he's four. That's a different kid. That's an even tinier kid.

Vinny Shoreman 45:54 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Liam Harrison 45:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:55 Very impressive.

Liam Harrison 45:56 But yeah, the thing with the internet as well though, what's starting to happen now though a lot in, especially in the UK, people will say, "Right, um, we try to match your show. Right, we've got a guy here who's had three fights. Your guy's had three fights. Let's match them." And they go, "Ooh, no, give me his name. I need to search him on YouTube. I need to-

Joe Rogan 46:10 Right, right, right.

Liam Harrison 46:10 ... search his Facebook, I need to search this." So as well as being a blessing, it's a curse for stuff like that because back when I started fighting, everybody, Richard would just go to me. I'd walk in the gym, Richard would go, "You're fighting on Saturday." This might be on Wednesday.

Joe Rogan 46:21 Right.

Liam Harrison 46:22 I go, "All right." And then-

Joe Rogan 46:23 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 46:23 ... with that, I'd turn up Saturday, you have your fight. But now it's like, "I wanna know his name, his gym, what's his Facebook, wh-"

Joe Rogan 46:28 Isn't that a badge of courage too, to be able to do that? Like, that's something that people would always admire, like a guy that would come into the gym and someone would say, "Would you like to fight this weekend?" They go, "Fuck yeah."

Liam Harrison 46:37 Yeah, Martini Man anytime-

Joe Rogan 46:38 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 46:38 ... anywhere anyplace.

Joe Rogan 46:39 Yeah, let's do it.

Liam Harrison 46:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:40 Yeah, I mean, that, that is what you're here for.

Liam Harrison 46:42 Everyone in our gym's always been like that.

Joe Rogan 46:44 Well, it-

Liam Harrison 46:44 But we have no-

Joe Rogan 46:45 ... I'm sure it trickles down-

Liam Harrison 46:46 ... any difference-

Joe Rogan 46:46 ... from coach-

Liam Harrison 46:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:47 ... from Richard-

Vinny Shoreman 46:47 The thing is as well-

Joe Rogan 46:48 ... and from you guys.

Vinny Shoreman 46:48 ... we've got a big junior circuit now with Yokkao. We've gotten Yokkao next generation.

Joe Rogan 46:52 How do you feel about that, about little kids fighting?

Vinny Shoreman 46:54 They don't fight head contact.

Joe Rogan 46:56 No head contact?

Vinny Shoreman 46:57 No.

Liam Harrison 46:57 Yeah, so they-

Joe Rogan 46:57 Just leg kicks, body kicks, body punches.

Liam Harrison 46:59 It makes them more skilled, does that.

Vinny Shoreman 47:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:00 Oh, yeah.

Liam Harrison 47:01 A lot more skilled.

Joe Rogan 47:01 Oh, for sure.

Vinny Shoreman 47:02 Catching kicks, low kick, push kicks-

Joe Rogan 47:03 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 47:03 ... and everything. I mean, some of the kids we've got, we've got another kid called-

Joe Rogan 47:05 They can't head kick either?

Vinny Shoreman 47:07 No.

Liam Harrison 47:07 No, just strictly body.

Joe Rogan 47:08 Okay.

Vinny Shoreman 47:08 We've got ki- we've got, uh, some kids from, like, fr- from Richard's two sons.

Liam Harrison 47:11 Yeah, Finlay and Fergus.

Vinny Shoreman 47:12 Then we've got, uh, L-

Liam Harrison 47:13 Joe Ryan.

Vinny Shoreman 47:13 ... Louis, Louis Joe. Joe Ryan who's-

Joe Rogan 47:15 And what year, what year do you let them-

Vinny Shoreman 47:16 Riley, Riley Smith.

Liam Harrison 47:17 Well, Joe Ryan's just 13. He's just fought pro in Thailand and knocked out an, I think, an 18-year-old Thai boy.

Vinny Shoreman 47:21 Yeah, so O' Riley Smith.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Whoa, whoa, whoa. He fought pro in Thailand when he was 13?

Liam Harrison 47:25 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 47:25 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 47:25 Last week.

Vinny Shoreman 47:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:26 Oh my god.

Liam Harrison 47:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:27 That's...

Liam Harrison 47:27 There's a video on, on YouTube.

Joe Rogan 47:28 Where the fuck are his parents? (laughs)

Liam Harrison 47:29 Yeah, but, um, they were there with him, but this kid is, is special. He's taller than me.

Joe Rogan 47:32 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 47:32 He's 13. He's taller than me.

Joe Rogan 47:34 Wow.

Liam Harrison 47:34 He fights at about 59, 60 kilos. I've done a lot of work with him one-to-one as well. His dad has done an a- amazing job with him.

Vinny Shoreman 47:41 There he is.

Liam Harrison 47:41 Is that about... Is he unbeaten in 36 fights?

Vinny Shoreman 47:43 He was unbeaten in 36 fights.

Joe Rogan 47:44 36 fights and he's 13?

Vinny Shoreman 47:46 But he, he lost... I think he lost in, uh, the IFMA's in-

Liam Harrison 47:48 On the final.

Vinny Shoreman 47:49 ... in, in, in Russia.

Liam Harrison 47:49 Yeah, yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 47:50 Yeah, against a kid that was, like, 16 and he weighed four kilos heavier. We've got another kid called Riley Smith, Jonathan Haggerty.

Liam Harrison 47:56 Yeah, I just, uh-

Vinny Shoreman 47:56 We've got some kids-

Joe Rogan 47:57 Keep this thing close to your face.

Vinny Shoreman 47:57 Sorry.

Liam Harrison 47:58 Sorry.

Vinny Shoreman 47:58 Sorry. We've got some-

Joe Rogan 47:59 You can move it around there.

Vinny Shoreman 47:59 We've got some right kids that are coming through. Jonathan Haggerty, who's just been on Yokkao Special, n- 20 years old, beat a great fighter, veteran called Keefan. Really good fighter.

Joe Rogan 48:08 Now, what kind of program do you have for these young kids? Do you have classes based on age groups? Do you have classes based on weight classes? Or do you just have kids classes?

Liam Harrison 48:17 Well, at Bud Company Gym, the kids class is, um, six to 12 year old.There's about 40 or 50 sometimes in our kids' classes. And, um, there'll be about three or four of the, the instructors taking it. Fighters will all be up in the ring, fight training, intermediates will be in the middle, beginners down at the end. So everyone's got someone catering for them, helping them bring through. All the fighters are working together. Watching them is just like watching the mini version of all our fighters upstairs. It's, it's class to watch sometimes. I like just going and watching them all training and sparring with each other, and clinching, and helping each other. And then a lot of them will stay behind after the class and really now putting the extra hours and the extra work. And they're ... it's good watching. Sometimes you'll see someone come in the gym and they're walking right shy, and then I look at them again two months later and I'll see them on the pads going, "Ba! Ba! Bam!" And he's like looking round going, "Yeah, see that? See that?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:03 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 49:03 It's class watching that happen. Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 49:04 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 49:04 You see them going through from being, like, walking at gym, being a shy little seven, eight year old boy and then smashing the pads and having their first fight. Our junior team is so good because obviously we've got Richard and Lisa training them, but my cousin, Andy, he's also a five-time world champion. He's doing PTs with a lot of them. Joe Craven's only, like, 19 years old, but he's so good with the kids as well. So they've got a wealth of experience. And, um, like I say, they're all just going, "Ba! Ba! Bam!" And then next minute they're up there fighting and just smashing it. And I think we've got ... We had 18 fights for our junior team last week, and I think we, we won something like 16. So-

Joe Rogan 49:39 Now I'd asked you earlier when we were working out together, you, you've never really considered fighting MMA.

Liam Harrison 49:45 No. Um, like I say, it took me a long time to get where I am in Muay Thai. And let's be honest, who's gonna stand up in front of me if I went into a ring? I'd have to get my ground game so, so good.

Joe Rogan 49:56 Right.

Liam Harrison 49:56 It'll take me a long time. And to be honest, I'm really enjoy- I, I love Muay Thai. I love, I love fighting Muay Thai, and I think you can only be good at something that you're passionate about. If I got in there and I thought, "Well, I'll do this because there's a lot of money involved in it," that wouldn't be-

Joe Rogan 50:08 Mm-hmm.

Liam Harrison 50:08 I wouldn't be where I am. I, I fight Muay Thai because I absolutely love it. Obviously-

Joe Rogan 50:13 Your style though, is, it's re- it's really interesting. It would apply very well to MMA.

Liam Harrison 50:17 Yeah. I f- like when I'm teaching the MMA fighters that, that I do train, I think I have got that good medium of how the striker needs to be and without getting taken down and out, off-balancing yourself 'cause it, it ... I'm not arrogant enough to go in there and say, "Right, Muay Thai, you need to do this in MMA. You need to fight like a Thai and do that." I'm not arrogant enough. I know there has to be changes. And I think I do spot that well, and it does work with the fighters I train. But, um, like I say, I lo- I love fighting Muay Thai. That's where my heart is. And, um, maybe if someone came over and said, "Oh, there's loads of money. Do you wanna ... " Maybe, yeah. But, like, I'm, I'm a stand-up fighter.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Right.

Liam Harrison 50:51 So he- I-

Joe Rogan 50:52 Have you done any wrestling or jujitsu or anything like that?

Liam Harrison 50:54 I, I haven't, no. Um, I've always been so concentrated on my Muay Thai fight career. I'm always booked out all year. I don't really get ... I've thought about it before doing a bit with AVT with Danny Mitchell, but I'm booked out on fights. I've got July, August, October, November.

Joe Rogan 51:09 You're already booked?

Liam Harrison 51:10 I'm booked out right to the end of the year.

Joe Rogan 51:12 Wow.

Liam Harrison 51:12 I don't even-

Joe Rogan 51:12 So do you do that, that many fights in advance?

Liam Harrison 51:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:14 That's very different than, like, boxing.

Liam Harrison 51:15 I get booked up for a year, yeah, a year and a half in advance.

Joe Rogan 51:18 A year and a half in advance?

Liam Harrison 51:18 Almost, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:19 Wow! No kidding.

Liam Harrison 51:20 It's all, all penciled in. So I'm not gonna have no time anyway 'cause I need to stay on top of my own training just so I'm ready to go from one fight to the next.

Joe Rogan 51:28 And if you get injured?

Liam Harrison 51:29 I, obviously I have to pull out. I had to pull out.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Right.

Liam Harrison 51:31 I had to pull out. I brought my foot in my last fight in, um, Paris in December. Broke my foot, split my shin, and, uh, I couldn't fight. In March, I went to fight two weeks ago, but obviously I couldn't do that one. Injuries are part of the sport.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Are you back to kicking things now?

Liam Harrison 51:43 I'm back kicking 100% and, um, back, as soon as I get back home, I'll be back in camp, ready to go in July.

Joe Rogan 51:48 That's impressive. Three months later you're throwing hard kicks.

Liam Harrison 51:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:52 Now, when you started working with Vinny, what was, what was the big difference? Like, what's the big difference in doing this, uh, mind coaching and, like, what, what have you noticed an improvement in?

Liam Harrison 52:03 My awareness. Like, the stuff with the Hakalau that we're on about, and, uh, the anchoring, it, your, your awareness increases so much.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Like, when you anchor, what do you, what are you thinking? When you touch, when you smash your gloves together at the beginning of a fight?

Liam Harrison 52:14 It's, uh, I'm, I'm sure everyone it'll be different. Um, what I'm doing is that when I'm pushing my gloves together and all of the stuff we've worked on, like the Hakalau, the awareness, everything's all just coming into me. The warrior, it sticks with me. That word will always stick with me after we've worked before. I'm sure people who have worked with him and got different stuff that they're anchoring. Well, that's what I'm anchoring.

Joe Rogan 52:29 When you say anchoring, what do you-

Liam Harrison 52:32 Bringing it in and bringing it all back in, where all the stuff that we've worked on, like when we did the Anawat fight, the warrior stuff. We also had another fight, um, against Andrei Kulibin. I got wrote off by everyone in this fight. He'd been to England twice before. He'd knocked out two of our top guys in the weight above me. So I stepped up in weight, um, to fight him and I went and did a bit of work with Vinny then, and there were a f- a few key words that we said then. One of them were visual- visible damage. And what were the other one?

Joe Rogan 52:59 Um, hot knife through butter.

Liam Harrison 53:00 Hot knife through butter 'cause I said to him-

Joe Rogan 53:03 Hot knife through butter. (laughs) Hot knife through butter.

Liam Harrison 53:04 Hot knife through butter. But you-

Joe Rogan 53:05 You guys and your goddamn accents.

Vinny Shoreman 53:06 He, he-

Joe Rogan 53:06 Did you learn how to speak American English?

Vinny Shoreman 53:08 See, see well-

Joe Rogan 53:08 Jesus.

Liam Harrison 53:09 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 53:09 Hot knife through butter.

Joe Rogan 53:10 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 53:10 So, so what I, what I'd said, what I'd said-

Joe Rogan 53:12 (laughs) That's pretty good.

Vinny Shoreman 53:12 It's very good. I'm a natural American, I am.

Joe Rogan 53:14 (laughs)

Liam Harrison 53:14 That's pretty good. What I'd said to Vinny is I said, "I, I don't just wanna beat this guy." I said, "Everyone's writing me off." I said, "I wanna smash him to absolute smithereens." And then-

Vinny Shoreman 53:22 He told me the game plan. He, he told me the game plan. He already told me what he was gonna do with, uh, Andrei Kulibin-

Liam Harrison 53:26 I told everyone how I was gonna win.

Vinny Shoreman 53:28 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 53:28 And no one believed me.

Vinny Shoreman 53:29 Yeah, and then, but I obviously because, uh, you know, if you didn't mention it, I'm his biggest fan.

Joe Rogan 53:33 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 53:33 And, um, and, and what he, we did, I did a CD for him. So I said, "Listen to this CD before you go to bed." So I recorded this, this, this CD. And it was weird because I wa- again, I was commentating thankfully on it. It was on the main event, wasn't it?

Liam Harrison 53:45 Yeah, main event.

Vinny Shoreman 53:46 And I was watching it and it was like playing a video game 'cause it was just like, low kick, bang. It was just like ... And everything that I, and all the thing that I said, kinda, kinda cheating in it, really.

Joe Rogan 53:55 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 53:55 I was like, "It's like a hot knife through butter!" And he went, bang! And he just, I mean, if you ever see it, he absolutely destroyed Kulibin. And Kulibin is a, is a legendary fighter from Belarus. And it, it was just, it went down perfectly.

Liam Harrison 54:07 Yeah, every time I kicked him, I could see how it would hurt him and that's what was coming into me head. And he we- he would ... Again, it's weird. It's hard to explain unless you actually do work with him and-

Vinny Shoreman 54:15 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 54:15 And, but, yeah, it worked again perfect. Anawat worked perfect and that one worked perfect.

Joe Rogan 54:18 What was the game plan that people didn't believe?

Liam Harrison 54:21 Um, I said to everyone, I said, "I'm gonna stop him in three rounds." And because he-... I were moving up in weight, and because he'd knocked out two other top fighters in England from that weight, above that-

Vinny Shoreman 54:29 Who'd he knock out? He knocked out Mi- Michael Dicks.

Liam Harrison 54:31 Michael Dicks in first round, and I think he stopped Imran Khan as well.

Vinny Shoreman 54:33 Oh, okay.

Liam Harrison 54:34 And, um, I told everyone I were gonna stop him. I said, I don't... He's, as I said, his leg's, his leg's too straight, so I'm gonna smash his leg. I'm gonna stop him with low kicks. It'll be a... And I said, it'll be like a hot knife through butter. And I stopped him in round three with low kicks.

Joe Rogan 54:46 Now, when you were creating this CD for him-

Liam Harrison 54:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:49 ... like, what was the goal? What was your objective?

Vinny Shoreman 54:51 He told me what he was gonna do, so I reaffirmed it. So he, we did, like, a, a trance thing, where y- you go into... y- you know, you lead anyone into an induction. And then w-... just played out the fight in his mind, t- telling him the specifics of what he told me and how he speaks. Because you have to use their language back to them. If I said, you know, something that's not in their vocabulary, ob- obviously, I'm not saying you're thick, but if you say

Liam Harrison 55:14 But I am.

Vinny Shoreman 55:15 ... go, "Oh," smack the wall.

Liam Harrison 55:16 (laughs)

Vinny Shoreman 55:17 So, he's... he'd got to add lots of, like, you know, what he told me into the, into the CD. So it, it, it... and it went in (laughs) , it works. I've never done it before. It was a gamble. I just thought, "You know what?" You know, uh, all... when it all comes down to it.

Joe Rogan 55:31 It seems like you could probably do that for a lot of people, right?

Vinny Shoreman 55:34 I- I mean, I've-

Joe Rogan 55:35 Like, different things that you're trying to work on, if you could just, like, listen to it and-

Vinny Shoreman 55:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:38 ... like, in your f- like, on your earbuds or something like that-

Vinny Shoreman 55:41 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 55:41 ... where you're doing other things?

Vinny Shoreman 55:41 Yeah, of course. And you know, I, I've been... I have people now who work with me for a year, like clients that wanna work with me for a year. They pay me for a year, and they just wanna ring me and talk about stuff. It's become, like, a real d-... sort of different than hypnotherapy and, and just being a, a therapist in, in, in just i-... in that sort of, that sort of way. But yeah, it's possible. And look, uh, I... the reason why we're doing this is because number one, w-... as I said, he's me friend, but number two, what we do works.

Joe Rogan 56:12 Yeah.

Liam Harrison 56:12 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 56:12 It's not... This is tried and tested. He's eight world titles world champion. I'm his mind coach. You know, obviously he's got a great coach in Richard and everybody, but what we do works, and people are starting to see the benefits. The feedback we've got from, like, San Diego Boxing Club, you know-

Joe Rogan 56:25 Mm-hmm.

Vinny Shoreman 56:25 ... uh, Artem and Jessie and all them, is been-

Joe Rogan 56:27 Yeah.

Vinny Shoreman 56:27 ... mind-blowing, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 56:29 Yeah, yeah.

Liam Harrison 56:29 Uh-

Joe Rogan 56:29 Well, there's definitely g- good states of mind to go into-

Vinny Shoreman 56:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:32 ... anything that's difficult, and again, fighting's one of the most difficult things, and then there's bad states of mind.

Vinny Shoreman 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:37 And those states of mind can determine the outcome. And i- just to have something that you can get to in your mind that can put you on the right path, like what you were saying, warrior or Hakalau, like, all these anchors that you're doing-

Vinny Shoreman 56:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:53 ... like, the... these different things. Like, I feel like these are applicable for everyday life too.

Vinny Shoreman 56:59 Exactly. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 57:00 Like, that this is something that people could really benefit from, like, to just... to, to... instead of just being, like, random and wild with your thoughts-

Vinny Shoreman 57:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:08 ... and your ideas going into something, and, and hoping that you have a good point of view and