JRE MMA Show #24 with Kevin Lee

Joe Rogan 0:04 Boom, and we're live. Kevin Lee.

Kevin Lee 0:07 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:07 This is about as fresh off of a fight as you can get man, right?

Kevin Lee 0:10 Yeah, just about, touching down.

Joe Rogan 0:11 Two days?

Kevin Lee 0:12 Yeah, barely slept. Straight here. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Yeah, right? It must have been a crazy... First of all, like, after a fight, it's probably, you're probably still wired and, like, can't believe it's over, right? What is it like?

Kevin Lee 0:22 Y- it takes you a minute for it to hit you, really. Uh, I didn't sleep at all after the fight. I just, I laid there for a little bit, mind kind of racing, didn't really settle down. Uh, I just ended up just getting up, getting some breakfast, and then, uh, right on the plane over here. Didn't sleep all on plane. Came over here, 3:00 AM. I've been up all morning.

Joe Rogan 0:42 But you're, what are you, like 25?

Kevin Lee 0:44 Yeah, yeah, I can keep going.

Joe Rogan 0:45 You can do that. You can keep going. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 0:45 Yeah, I can keep going. Rockstar lifestyle, baby. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:47 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 0:48 I gotta live it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 25, you can do that for, like, two days in a row before it really starts to settle in.

Kevin Lee 0:52 Yeah, no, I'll be good for a minute. I mean, besides getting kicked in the head, I'm all good, other than that.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Yeah. Dude, that w- f- that was, first of all, it was a very, very, very impressive performance. I mean, Edson Barboza is no fucking joke, and notoriously difficult to take down. Even Khabib struggled getting him down the early parts of the first round, but you got him down quick.

Kevin Lee 1:11 Yeah, I think a lot of people underestimate that, uh, especially how technical m- my wrestling can get.

Joe Rogan 1:16 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 1:16 Um, I've, I just feel like e- Edson was really strong. Uh, he was probably the strongest guy that I've ever faced. Physically, uh, it just, h- his body is just, it m- it moved a little bit different. But technically, I, I just had the, the aspect there and when, when you add those two things up, I'm equally as strong. You know, the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:35 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 1:35 Yeah, I'm just gonna blow him out the water.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Well, he's just a bundle of fast twitch muscle fiber, man, and that dude, I mean, people, you know, they'll see the Khabib fight and they'll see this fight with you. They might not understand how good that guy really is. He's very, very good.

Kevin Lee 1:49 He's a beast, and, uh, he's gonna come back and he's gonna knock some people out. He, he-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Oh, for sure.

Kevin Lee 1:52 He's only gonna get better from here, I think.

Joe Rogan 1:54 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 1:55 Uh, it's just, he, it's the styles make the fights too. And me, I feel like I can fight any style, you know? That, that was my number one goal when I got into this sport, just to be the most well-rounded, complete, uh, fighter that there is. And, and I feel like I can take advantage, uh, of, like, some of his, things that he's not good and good at. But he's gonna get better at 'em. He's gon- he's gonna be back. He's a beast.

Joe Rogan 2:15 Well, that focus and that mindset of being well-rounded was very obvious in that fight. I was very impressed by the fact you, you fight just as good southpaw as you do orthodox. You switch up easily.

Kevin Lee 2:25 I've, I've been, uh, I've only been going southpaw for maybe the past year, year and a half or so, uh, and just kinda getting a feeler, uh, for it down. But I feel like that could be one of the hu- when you listen to a lot of the great fighters in, in the past, they talk about a right-handed southpaw. There's so many advantages that can be there.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 2:43 Uh, and it's just, it's just always great to be able to switch up and, and change timings, especially when you got a guy that's, that's trying to time you like Edson. Uh, because he's-

Joe Rogan 2:50 Yeah, they say that e- I'm sorry, but they, they say that if you work on the opposite side, it actually makes the other side better.

Kevin Lee 2:55 Yeah, yeah. It makes it a little bit easier when you switch back.

Joe Rogan 2:57 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 2:57 And, and, and I've noticed that. I mean, there's still some, some kinks and twists that I wanna kinda get outta there. You know, you see-

Joe Rogan 3:03 Right.

Kevin Lee 3:03 ... I, I, I study a lot of people. I study a lot of the switch fighters, especially in MMA, uh, recently. I wanna say about the n- last two years guys have been doing it more often. But some guys do it better than others. I try and-

Joe Rogan 3:15 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 3:15 ... get the perfect mix, you know?

Joe Rogan 3:17 Well, some guys do it, but there's a twist, right? Like, Wonderboy does it, but when Wonderboy does it, you know that the front leg is coming.

Kevin Lee 3:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:24 And then he's, he's, you know, he's, he can fight any style. I mean, he can fight left or right.

Kevin Lee 3:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:29 But when he switches, when he goes right, you know that front leg sidekick's coming, that front leg roundhouse kick is coming. And then when he stands orthodox, he's much more likely to throw a punch or, you know, maybe even spin. He, he mixes it up, but he, he's limited, maybe, in the way he attacks.

Kevin Lee 3:45 The blending of it, I think.

Joe Rogan 3:47 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 3:47 Uh, Wonderboy's one of those guys that his switches are like really, uh, you can see 'em coming.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 3:53 You know, the, he, he makes 'em really pronounced, you know? They're big switches. And you know the, the attacks that are coming. There are certain guys like TJ Dillashaw who is great at mixing it up completely-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Right.

Kevin Lee 4:03 ... uh, where I feel like he doesn't sit down on his punches too much or, you know, he gets in spots where he can get clipped in between those with your feet off the ground. Uh, so I try and find a happy medium between those two, switching up too much and, uh, being able to make those hard switches too.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Well, TJ's really been doing that style for just, like, three or four years now, since he's been with Bang. Maybe it was about, I wanna say three years, four years or so.

Kevin Lee 4:24 Yeah, probably, something like... It, it takes some time to get used to it, get used to the timing and everything. And, and that's one of the things with me. Like, I try and be the most consistent, uh, guy that there is out there. So the more consistently I'm getting in there, the more I'm seeing things coming, I'm, I'm, I'm reading the angles and, you know, getting a lot of different looks, a lot of different bodies being thrown at me. Uh, so all that adds up to experience and, you know, it's, it's only gonna get better from there.

Joe Rogan 4:47 Yeah, it's also one of those things. When you're 25 years old, you, you still are, like, realistically five years away from your athletic prime.

Kevin Lee 4:54 Yeah, I, I keep that-

Joe Rogan 4:55 Really.

Kevin Lee 4:56 ... (sighs) I keep that in the back of my mind sometimes because I, you know, you obviously don't wanna overwork the body too much. You don't wanna burn out. Uh, but yeah, I think it's just staying consistent and staying healthy.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 5:05 As long as I'm healthy through it, you know, I got through that fight, no, n- no serious damages at all. Uh, and that's the most important thing, is just staying healthy when I'm young, uh, and then, uh, you know, tailing back when I'm starting to get more damages or more injuries. But, I, I do a great job at keeping my body healthy, I think, more than anything.

Joe Rogan 5:21 What do you, like, when you're in, I know Robert Folles was your coach for quite a long time and, uh, we both miss him. I'm sure you, you were very close with him. He was such a great guy, man.

Kevin Lee 5:31 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Was, was he the guy that, like, did he sort of, uh, map out your training program when you were in camp or?

Kevin Lee 5:37 You know, I had, uh, we, we kinda structured it, or at least I try and structure it like a full team.... uh, aspect. You know, Rob was kinda like ... I think of it like a race car, you know? I'm, I'm the race car itself, uh, but Robs was like the head driver, you know? Rob's telling me where to go, what to do. Uh, Dewey was kinda like my horsepower. You know, he's-

Joe Rogan 5:56 Dewey Cooper?

Kevin Lee 5:56 Yeah, Dewey Cooper, uh, I mean, phenomenal striking coach if you ever, you know-

Joe Rogan 6:00 Yes, fantastic fighter.

Kevin Lee 6:01 He, with him, he, he was, uh, a smaller heavyweight, but he would fight giant guys-

Joe Rogan 6:06 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 6:06 ... like Peter Aerts. And to do that, you, you gotta ... You know, you look at him, he's only about 220, you know, six-foot-one, maybe. He's fighting six-foot-seven, 300-pound guys, so he has to be extra technical in there-

Joe Rogan 6:17 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 6:18 ... uh, not rely on his speed and power. That's why I think he, he makes such a great coach and, and he pushes me, uh, through it. But I had another guy I- I've been working with, Corey Goodwin, for the last four or five years since I've been out in Vegas. He's kinda like the mechanic, you know? He keeps me ... He keeps my body fresh and going.

Joe Rogan 6:33 Is he, is he your strength and conditioning guy?

Kevin Lee 6:34 Yes. Uh, we call it that, but, w- what we do is a lot different than, than strength and conditioning. You know, it's, it's not a lot of ... I, I don't lift any weights. I don't ... And people, when people see-

Joe Rogan 6:45 For real?

Kevin Lee 6:45 Yeah, no. I haven't touched a weight since college, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:48 Wow.

Kevin Lee 6:48 The only time I did was, uh, when I went over and I started working with the UFC PI guys a little bit. They wanted me to touch weights, but, uh, I don't ... I- it's just not a good fit for me.

Joe Rogan 6:58 Are you doing s- uh, what are you doing? Plyometrics? Are you doing-

Kevin Lee 7:02 He'd have to explain it to you more.

Joe Rogan 7:04 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 7:04 You know, that's, that's his ... That, that's what ... He does, he, he worked through s- EXO's for a long time, so he took a lotta their, their physiology and, or some of their-

Joe Rogan 7:11 What is that? What did you say?

Kevin Lee 7:11 Uh, EXO's. Uh-

Joe Rogan 7:12 What's EXO's?

Kevin Lee 7:13 The, uh, I think they just signed a deal with the UFC too. A lot of guys been going over and, uh, they're a big strength and conditioning, uh, program.

Joe Rogan 7:21 Oh, okay.

Kevin Lee 7:21 They got, they got a big facility down in Arizona, but they used to be based outta Vegas. Uh, so he worked for them where he gets a lot of his training philosophies and stuff from.

Joe Rogan 7:29 Mm.

Kevin Lee 7:29 Uh, but it's not, it's not any, any weightlifting.

Joe Rogan 7:32 Is it calisthenics, pushups?

Kevin Lee 7:33 Yeah, a lot of calisthenics, lot of movement. Uh, a lot of ... We work a lot of the joints especially. You know, where he overextends my joints. He pushes them past, past the limit and then we work out from there. So, it's not very heavy lifting. It's maybe 15 pounds.

Joe Rogan 7:47 What do you mean by pushing them past the limit? Like, like, uh, hyperextend it?

Kevin Lee 7:51 Yeah, I mean, no-

Joe Rogan 7:51 Like he pulls it-

Kevin Lee 7:52 Well-

Joe Rogan 7:52 ... almost like you get in armbar-ed?

Kevin Lee 7:53 So, uh, uh, one of the things we do is he takes a band and he, and he stretches it out so it really pulls my shoulder. And I, I was telling you how I, I very rarely have s- shoulder problems and I think a large reason, he, he pulls it all the way out, kinda out the socket, and then we work at it out from there.

Joe Rogan 8:09 Huh.

Kevin Lee 8:09 You know, to build strength from those, those little muscles. Uh, which I feel like is, is ... That's the part where I get my true strength from, you know? I do that, a lotta yoga, lot of, you know, lot of things that just all the strength comes from within me, not lifting weights or anything.

Joe Rogan 8:24 How often are you doing yoga when you're in camp?

Kevin Lee 8:26 Uh, two, two, three times a week. I've only been doing it for like four or five months since, since the Tony fight.

Joe Rogan 8:32 Yeah?

Kevin Lee 8:32 Uh, it, it's been helping me out a, a lot. When I, when I started doing it guys were like, "Oh, what, are you lifting or something?" I'm like, "Nah, just ... (laughs) That shit's hard."

Joe Rogan 8:40 It's hard, right?

Kevin Lee 8:40 I was like, "Fucking just doing yoga," like-

Joe Rogan 8:42 Isn't it crazy how hard it is?

Kevin Lee 8:43 Yeah, shit's crazy.

Joe Rogan 8:43 People ... It sounds like you're just fucking off. Like, "Yeah, I'm doing yoga." "Oh, you lazy bitch. What you doing, stretching? Touching your toes and shit?" (laughs)

Kevin Lee 8:51 (laughs) Maybe for like the first two months, like, I'd be like ashamed to tell people. They like, "Where you going like, you know ..." Uh, "I'm going to this one class, uh, you know, we gonna be lifting a lotta weights and we gonna be grunting and shit."

Joe Rogan 9:02 Yeah. Eating meat and shit.

Kevin Lee 9:02 And like ... Nah, I'm in there with like the fucking (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 9:04 Housewives.

Kevin Lee 9:06 ... the housewives and they killing me.

Joe Rogan 9:07 It's crazy, right?

Kevin Lee 9:08 They killing me, they killing me. I've gotten good now though, but, uh, when I first started-

Joe Rogan 9:11 Do you do hot yoga? Are you doing-

Kevin Lee 9:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Lee 9:13 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:14 That's the way to go.

Kevin Lee 9:14 Hot, hot yoga. Uh, uh, I do a couple different st- even the Vinyasa a little bit.

Joe Rogan 9:18 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 9:18 Uh, I, I try and dibble dabble. But I've only been doing it for a couple months now.

Joe Rogan 9:23 Now, when you do ... How do you structure your camp like, um, in terms of like how much strength and conditioning you doing, how much skill work, how much-

Kevin Lee 9:30 So, i- it kinda depended on ... Depends on the opponent too. Uh, but, you know, generally I'm doing three times a week of, of some type of grappling, uh, whether that's wrestling or, or, uh, no gi. Uh, then I only spar once a week at the end of the weeks. Uh, we pick our sparring partners that we pick, that we choose. You know, we fly guys in or, or guys that are in town 'cause I'm in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 9:52 Mm-hmm, right.

Kevin Lee 9:52 All guys aren't always in and out. Um, but then, uh, you know, I only, I only do strength and conditioning maybe two times a week. Not, not too much.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Now, when you say, um, you spar once a week and you bring guys in, um, are you sparring hard or do you spar more technical?

Kevin Lee 10:06 Yeah, yeah. Nah, I go hard. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:07 Or do you just go, go, go hard?

Kevin Lee 10:08 When I'm in camp.

Joe Rogan 10:08 Right.

Kevin Lee 10:09 Uh, maybe four or five good, but I, I go pretty hard and, and it, (laughs) it ruins me sometimes 'cause I run out of sparring partners-

Joe Rogan 10:15 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 10:15 ... and guys don't wanna show up and all this. But, uh, they ... I, I ended up having to start paying guys just so, "Come on, man. Give me some work here."

Joe Rogan 10:22 Right.

Kevin Lee 10:23 Yeah, yeah, we trying to make some money.

Joe Rogan 10:24 Do you think that that's the way to go like, um, for longevity? You see, there's a, there's the big debate, right? Whether or not you should spar skillwise and then save it up for the fight or whether you should just fucking go to war.

Kevin Lee 10:34 I think, I think you need that, that reaction time-

Joe Rogan 10:38 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 10:38 ... you know, w- with a guy that's seriously throwing at you.

Joe Rogan 10:41 Right.

Kevin Lee 10:41 And I mean, we're, we're not trying to hurt each other, for sure. Uh, the sparring partners-

Joe Rogan 10:44 Like 80% maybe, 70%, something like that?

Kevin Lee 10:47 It, we go pretty hard up until you obviously can see that there's an injury or someone's hurt-

Joe Rogan 10:52 Right, right, right.

Kevin Lee 10:52 ... or, you know, you back down and ... Uh, even on like some of my takedowns I, I back down obviously. Uh, I'm not trying to knock the guy out, but I am trying to give him some good work.

Joe Rogan 11:01 Right.

Kevin Lee 11:01 And I hope he do, he does the same in return. But we pick smart guys that'll do it. That's what it's about at that level. When you got two very high-level guys going against each other, we can go hard and not injure.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Right.

Kevin Lee 11:13 If, if I'm going with like a new guy or, you know-

Joe Rogan 11:15 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 11:15 ... it's a newer team, like I don't even try to fuck around with it.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Someone who's trying to make a name off you.

Kevin Lee 11:18 Yeah, I don't fuck around with it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:19 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 11:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:19 There's a lot of that, man.

Kevin Lee 11:21 It's too much.

Joe Rogan 11:21 Yeah, I remember I ran into Vitor once and his hand was in a cast, and he hadn't had a fight in a while. I said, "What happened?" He said some new guy came into the gym and he's sparring with this new guy and this new guy's trying to kill him and he broke his hand on this dude's forehead. And I was thinking, "You're Vitor Belfort." I mean, and this is Vitor like ...

Kevin Lee 11:37 Pshh.

Joe Rogan 11:38 I wanna say like eight, nine years ago. I was like, "Man, like that's crazy."

Kevin Lee 11:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:42 But, that's the kinda shit that happens, right?

Kevin Lee 11:44 And guys are very tough in a gym. I mean, especially some of the little dudes.

Joe Rogan 11:47 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 11:47 Like, they tougher than you think they would be.

Joe Rogan 11:49 They're coming out, they're 16 and they're tough.

Kevin Lee 11:50 Yeah. They-

Joe Rogan 11:51 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 11:51 (laughs) They're coming out with, with, you know, new st- I think each gen- generation has a new style too.

Joe Rogan 11:56 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 11:56 That you're, you, you d- you don't get used to.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Right.

Kevin Lee 11:58 And if it, you know, if ... Them boys will catch you. They, they be hungrier than you, uh-

Joe Rogan 12:02 Well, you're seeing all these new guys that are coming up that can do everything. You know, they, they have like TaeKwonDo skills, they got Muay Thai, they can wrestle. They do flying arm bars and shit. There's just ... Kids are ... Because MMA is such a part of like the zeitgeist now and everybody understands it, and kids know if you wanna be a really tough fighter, it's not about boxing, it's about MMA. And so you're getting these wild ass kids at a really young age practicing this shit on each other, learning it, trying, going to gyms when they're nine, 10 years old. By the time they're in high school, they're killers.

Kevin Lee 12:36 Yeah. I mean, and we have so many of them that come through, uh, Vegas especially.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Sure.

Kevin Lee 12:39 And I think that's what, that's my favorite part about living there is, is the, the training partners and, and like you said, the new kids. I try and ... Even though I'm only 25, I'm trying to see what they doing-

Joe Rogan 12:49 Right.

Kevin Lee 12:49 ... that's coming up next.

Joe Rogan 12:50 That's smart.

Kevin Lee 12:51 Uh, because they're, they're gonna come with something that (laughs) you ain't seen before.

Joe Rogan 12:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Kevin Lee 12:55 Uh, it is some out there.

Joe Rogan 12:56 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 12:56 Like, like even my younger brother, uh, my younger brother's just getting started in his MMA career. He's only got five pro fights now, uh, eight in total, so not that many fights. But, just some of the things that he do, I'm like, you know, "Let me try, let me learn-"

Joe Rogan 13:09 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 13:09 "... from you a little bit."

Joe Rogan 13:10 Right. Well, the Barboza fight, um, y- you got clipped, was it third round, the beginning of the third round?

Kevin Lee 13:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:15 You got clipped with that wheel kick?

Kevin Lee 13:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:17 That recovery was amazing though, man. That's an amazing recovery. I mean, Barboza puts people out with that shit and your legs completely gave out.

Kevin Lee 13:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:25 But, m- man, it's, that's a weird moment, right?

Kevin Lee 13:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:28 Where like anything ... If he wasn't near you, right, where you could grab ahold of him and take him down, if he just stepped back a little bit, you know? Interesting, right?

Kevin Lee 13:38 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was still there, uh-

Joe Rogan 13:40 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 13:41 You know, I ne- I never went away. And I think a lot of ... Even the way I moved (laughs) , when somebody showed me that video after, I cracked up. I was, I was dying laughing 'cause when I'm in there, I don't, I don't know what happened, you know. I see the video and I see my legs just go-

Joe Rogan 13:54 Did you see the remixes-

Kevin Lee 13:55 ... chicken dance. Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 13:56 ... Sony did with the music?

Kevin Lee 13:57 (laughs) There's a couple of them, bro.

Joe Rogan 13:59 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 13:59 They pretty good, though. I've been laughing along to them all morning.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Well, because you won. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 14:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:03 It's funny.

Kevin Lee 14:04 It's funny, but while I laugh-

Joe Rogan 14:05 'Cause you won, it's funny. Yeah.

Kevin Lee 14:06 But I think a lot of ... You see my, uh, a lot of what I was ... My focus going into this one was really on my footwork, uh, my balance, you know, doing yoga. I've been dancing too, uh, a little bit.

Joe Rogan 14:16 What kind of dancing?

Kevin Lee 14:17 (laughs) Some ballet and, and salsa.

Joe Rogan 14:20 Yeah?

Kevin Lee 14:20 I mean, I, you know-

Joe Rogan 14:21 I've heard a lot of guys ... Look, Lomachenko is, uh, uh ... You know, his dad had him enrolled in dance for four fucking years.

Kevin Lee 14:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:28 Traditional Russian dancing, and he credits that for his footwork.

Kevin Lee 14:31 Yeah. I mean, I've, uh, uh, I've only been doing it for a short amount of time, but still I can tell right off the bat, and I think a lot of what you saw there was that, you know. Uh, when I looked at before, the only other fight I've ever got dropped in or hurt seriously was, uh, the Leonardo Dos Santos fight and really it was me dropping back on my ankle and I broke my ankle in that fight. So when I tried to stand back up, it looked like I wobbled to ... And that's why John, uh, you know, John McCarthy stepped in. So a lot of what I focused on was the balance.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Mm.

Kevin Lee 14:59 So when my, you know, (laughs) that equilibrium gave off and you see, I saw four guys in front of me, I'm just like, "Let me just keep my eyes on this motherfucker right here." Like ...

Joe Rogan 15:07 It's crazy 'cause you think of how hard Barboza is usually to take down. You just got ... You ... It was very fortunate that he was right there for you to grab him, 'cause he was trying to move in for the kill.

Kevin Lee 15:15 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, it's ...

Joe Rogan 15:17 If you were his coach, you would have been screaming, "Get the fuck away from him," right?

Kevin Lee 15:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:21 Wouldn't you?

Kevin Lee 15:21 Honestly, his, his, his coaches was not doing him no favors during that fight.

Joe Rogan 15:25 No?

Kevin Lee 15:25 I felt bad for the guy, to be honest with you.

Joe Rogan 15:26 Why? What do you mean? In what way?

Kevin Lee 15:28 Ah, they coulda, they coulda did him better. Uh, through the se- uh, he ... I probably could have put him away in the second round, um, but he was panicking and I could see it in him. You know? And his coaches like caused him to panic a little bit more. You know, they just kept screaming at him the time, like, "You only got two minutes to survive" or ...

Joe Rogan 15:46 Right.

Kevin Lee 15:47 And I was like, "Oh, let me not ..." You know? Barboza a nice guy. He really is. And, uh, you know, I didn't wanna hurt him too bad, so ...

Joe Rogan 15:53 It's two very similar fights for him in a row.

Kevin Lee 15:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:55 Two maulings-

Kevin Lee 15:56 Yeah, that too.

Joe Rogan 15:57 ... you know, in a row. That's ... You know, when you're that guy who wants to stand up and, you know, you got guys that are just, just constant pressure, constant pressure.

Kevin Lee 16:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:05 I mean, the ... People don't realize how much endurance that takes to move away too. You're moving backwards. It's a lot more difficult to do.

Kevin Lee 16:11 Uh, yeah, true. I mean, uh, I, I feel like i- everything kind of pushed, you know. It, it, it's about who controls the, the pace of the fight.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 16:17 And I feel like I did a good job of that. And I, you know, I, I, I thought even after I got wobbled with the, with the kick in the third, I still came back and-

Joe Rogan 16:23 You won the round. I mean-

Kevin Lee 16:24 Yeah, I tried to make it a point to finish standing.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Other than that moment, you won the round.

Kevin Lee 16:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:27 You know, and, uh, you hurt him bad in the second round too with a kick to the body. Like-

Kevin Lee 16:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:32 ... you could see him cover up and tensing, but you could see it. It, it was a, a strong right kick to the body.

Kevin Lee 16:37 One of the reporters, he asks me like, why was I standing at, at range with him. Uh, and it's just like, I, I feel like I can do it all. You know? And that, that's my true sense.

Joe Rogan 16:46 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 16:46 It's like I can stand at range with, with ... I mean, he's definitely the, the most explosive, dynamic, uh, all those things that you wanna say, the, the best kicker in the lightweight division. And I, and I can stand at range with him and, and kick just as well with him. And I can wrestle with the best wrestlers, I can, I can kick with the kick, best kick boxers, I can punch with the best boxers. So, uh, why not test myself? I'm, I'm not one of these guys who shy away from shit.

Joe Rogan 17:08 He's an interesting case because he's really primarily a kicker. He will throw punches, but that's not his strong suit. I mean, he's not a guy that just wants to, you know, just, just dig in and, and throw bombs.

Kevin Lee 17:18 Yeah, but he got some bombs too. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:20 (laughs) He's got some bombs, I'm sure.

Kevin Lee 17:21 I mean, you hold on to ... He, he hit me with that left ... You know, and I ... He hit me with a, a, a monstrous left hook in the fifth round. I was like, "Man, he's still there." The kid nev- he never gave up.

Joe Rogan 17:30 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 17:30 He was taking a beating. He hit me with a monstrous left hook, so I gave him one back and bust his orbital up pretty good. But, (laughs) uh, you know, he was still there to the very end. He, he, he can box too. He, he's got some power in his hands.

Joe Rogan 17:43 Yeah, and the cut was a pretty nasty cut. Pretty nasty cut over his right eye when they stopped the fight.

Kevin Lee 17:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Were you, were you shocked that they stopped it?

Kevin Lee 17:49 No, I thought, I thought it was the, the right call. You know, I, I think more, uh-... coaches in MMA should definitely get in there a little bit sooner. And I think, I think that's what the, some of the problem with this corner was too. Uh, uh, y- you know, you see some of these fights and you can kinda tell when a guy just doesn't... You know, it, it, it doesn't make sense to make him take more beatings. Not-

Joe Rogan 18:09 Right.

Kevin Lee 18:09 ... somebody like Barboza c- is explosive to the very, very end. You have to give that to him. But-

Joe Rogan 18:13 That's the thing, you never know, right? I mean-

Kevin Lee 18:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:15 ... if he connected with that left hook perfect and you went out-

Kevin Lee 18:18 And then-

Joe Rogan 18:18 ... and then he's a hero.

Kevin Lee 18:19 Yeah. The- then, you know, I guess you, then you look like the asshole. But-

Joe Rogan 18:23 Right.

Kevin Lee 18:23 ... uh, you know, I don't know. It's, it's a thin line to cross.

Joe Rogan 18:25 It's, yeah, it's a tough decision. Uh, you don't wanna be there when your guy's getting beaten up like that and you have to make that call.

Kevin Lee 18:31 Yeah. Yeah, and I, I mean, maybe g- I'm just speaking for him because I'm not a coach yet.

Joe Rogan 18:34 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 18:34 Maybe, you know, my stance will, will change when I'm, when I am a coach. But, you know, or if I have a coach. But we'll see.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Yeah, it's, uh, (sighs) it's, it's different with d... I mean, the same thing with referees. And Keith Peterson did a great job in that fight. There's, i- he's a guy that doesn't get enough credit.

Kevin Lee 18:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:49 There's a, there's a few, like, you know, Herb Dean, I think, 'cause John McCarthy's retired, I think he's the gold standard. Josh Rosenthal. There's a bunch of really-

Kevin Lee 18:55 Get it.

Joe Rogan 18:56 ... good guys. But-

Kevin Lee 18:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:57 ... that's a tough call to decide when to stop.

Kevin Lee 18:59 I think even Yamasaki, you know, Yamasaki takes a lot of, uh, he takes a lot (laughs) of bullshit for, especially from the-

Joe Rogan 19:04 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 19:05 ... from, from... Dana don't like him at all.

Joe Rogan 19:06 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 19:07 He hate that motherfucker (laughs) . But, uh, he, he does a great job in there. E- even that, that fight where he let the girl take a lot of punches-

Joe Rogan 19:14 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 19:14 ... and a lot of damage, she was still moving. She was still showing that she was in the fight. I think you gotta put that on her coaches and her, and her trainers. They know that she's, if she's really in there or not.

Joe Rogan 19:24 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 19:24 You know? Some guys are just too tough for their own good, like, like Barboza.

Joe Rogan 19:27 Well, she was fighting-

Kevin Lee 19:28 Uh.

Joe Rogan 19:28 ... Valentina Shevchenko. She just shouldn't-

Kevin Lee 19:30 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 19:30 ... have been in there. She just shouldn't have been in there.

Kevin Lee 19:32 Yeah. It's a hard fight.

Joe Rogan 19:32 That was her, her first UFC fight and she's fighting a woman who's just a straight-up assassin.

Kevin Lee 19:36 Yeah. And it, and it can't be on the ref. You can't put it on the ref to know that, you know?

Joe Rogan 19:40 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 19:41 Or to, to make that call. The ref has to be completely, uh, subj- you know, not, not objective at all. Um, i- it, it's, I think it's gotta put it on the coaches. They should know, you know?

Joe Rogan 19:51 What weight do you walk around at?

Kevin Lee 19:53 Uh, about one... M- if I'm completely just kinda like bullshitting, doing whatever-

Joe Rogan 19:57 Right.

Kevin Lee 19:57 ... I've gotten to as high as, like, 195. Uh, but-

Joe Rogan 20:00 Now, when you're in training, like, when you're getting... Like, say you're four weeks out-

Kevin Lee 20:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:03 ... where you at?

Kevin Lee 20:04 Uh, 85 usually.

Joe Rogan 20:05 185?

Kevin Lee 20:06 Yeah. 85. 80-

Joe Rogan 20:06 So you're cutting a lot of weight, man.

Kevin Lee 20:08 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, uh-

Joe Rogan 20:10 Do you see yourself ever moving to 70 or...

Kevin Lee 20:12 No, not, not 70 necessarily, just because tho- those guys, they're... You... At that point you're talking about a frame issue.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Right.

Kevin Lee 20:19 You know? You, you got guys that are, like, 6'1" and, you know, they, they're just... It's a, it's a different-

Joe Rogan 20:24 Rulers.

Kevin Lee 20:24 ... it's a different body style.

Joe Rogan 20:25 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 20:25 You know, I train with a lot of them-

Joe Rogan 20:26 Right, right.

Kevin Lee 20:26 ... high-level welterweights too, you know. It's, it's a different body style, right? I'm more suited for 155. It's just w- you know, some of the things that I gotta play around with, uh, I think will keep happening in the upcoming months. I didn't project that I would fight again until July or so, so a lot of the things that I was doing diet-wise was kinda getting to that, and they approached me with this Barboza fight maybe, like, eight weeks earlier than that. So-

Joe Rogan 20:50 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 20:50 ... I just had to do what I had to do.

Joe Rogan 20:52 So is it a matter of just you didn't taper off quick enough or you just came in too heavy before you started?

Kevin Lee 20:58 You know, it was just, it was just the timing-wise, you know. I-

Joe Rogan 21:00 You missed it by one pound?

Kevin Lee 21:01 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's something on that timing that I, that I've really gotta figure out. And that was the biggest problem with, with the, uh, Tony Ferguson fight. Uh, you know, I can break it down for you. We, we... So usually, uh, you know, I'm normally about 185. Through six weeks of dieting, I can usually diet down to about 76, 77. Like, that's where I'm optimal. Uh, and then from there, I start the water cut. So the week of the fight, the Tuesday, I'm 76. Uh, you know, I save that all the way until, you know, I overload my body with water and, you know, flush out some of the, the, the sodium and, uh, the carbs and all that. Um, I save the rest of that up until the day before, and I try and cut as much as I can as, uh... Because I wanted to spend as little d- time dehydrated, that dehydrated as possible. And I think that's some of the problem with having these early morning weigh-ins, is the timing issue of it. And-

Joe Rogan 21:51 'Cause you wake up and then you have to start, like, from the time-

Kevin Lee 21:54 I, I-

Joe Rogan 21:54 ... you wake up, rather than if it's at 4:00 in the afternoon like it used to be, you'd be able to do it all throughout the day.

Kevin Lee 22:00 Yeah, yeah. I can cut more, you know, reasonably through the morning. You know, you can wake up every-

Joe Rogan 22:05 So do you feel like if you had more time, you woulda been able to make it?

Kevin Lee 22:07 Oh yeah, absolutely, 100%. Yeah, my, my body was-

Joe Rogan 22:09 So it's just a timing thing?

Kevin Lee 22:10 Yeah. It was-

Joe Rogan 22:10 I see, I got confused. When they were doing those early morning weigh-ins, I thought you had, like, like, from 8:00 AM to 4:00 to make it.

Kevin Lee 22:16 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 22:17 That's what I thought.

Kevin Lee 22:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:18 I thought if you could weigh in early, go ahead and weigh in early, but they gave you the time.

Kevin Lee 22:21 Yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm not really... (sighs) I don't really know the solution either. You know, I don't think nobody really knows the solution to that problem, the, the, the timeframe, 'cause you are seeing a lot of guys miss weight because of that, and I think that's, that's one of the biggest problems. Uh, not only that, but guys are going to sleep completely dehydrated and sleeping through the night 20 pounds dehydrated. That's a lot of water coming from your blood. Your blood gets thicker, your heart rate slows down when you, when you sleep. I mean, you know, I, I try my best not to spend as much time dehydrated as possible.

Joe Rogan 22:51 Right. Yeah.

Kevin Lee 22:51 So it's just a timing issue on that last one especially.

Joe Rogan 22:54 When you see guys like Dos Anjos, that just can't do it anymore, and he goes up to 70 and he looks better than ever, what do you think about that?

Kevin Lee 23:00 It, uh... It's, it's always an option for me.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 23:03 It would be an option now. Like, I, I would, I would entertain the right fight at it, for sure. It's just right now at, at, at the state of it, is, you know, they're doing this bullshit interim title and, you know, Tyron's sitting right there, and there's-

Joe Rogan 23:13 Right.

Kevin Lee 23:13 ... it's a lot of move... It's not a lot of movement at the top right now. So 155, just more fights interest me. It's bigger challenges. I think the guys are honestly better at 155. 170, maybe in the future, but, you know, it's gotta be the right type of fight or something.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Yeah. There... Well, there's so many good fighters now, from... I mean, you can go all across the board. I mean, pretty much every weight class-

Kevin Lee 23:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:32 ... is strong now. But yeah, I agree. I think 55 is probably the strongest weight class right now.

Kevin Lee 23:36 Yeah. And, and, and it's, and it's so strong that you can make a 165-pound. I mean, I don't-

Joe Rogan 23:40 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 23:40 ... I really don't see what, what the holdup is on it. But-

Joe Rogan 23:42 I agree.

Kevin Lee 23:42 ... do a 65, do a 75.

Joe Rogan 23:44 I agree.

Kevin Lee 23:45 Uh, because we have so many guys that-

Joe Rogan 23:46 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 23:47 ... can bounce between those. And, and you'll have a whole new top 15, a whole new champ, and, and they'll be just as strong as any other two weight classes next to it.

Joe Rogan 23:54 I couldn't agree more. I, I think it's very important that we spread it out better. I think 10 pounds is reasonable.

Kevin Lee 24:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:01 You know, I mean, the, the way boxing has it, they just, they, you know, they have a 54 and then they have a 60. That seems a little ridiculous.

Kevin Lee 24:06 Yeah, that's not-

Joe Rogan 24:07 47 and then they have a 54. I think you'd be better off with 10.

Kevin Lee 24:11 10? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:11 Just a straight-up 10 pounds, that's reasonable. But when you go from, like, 85 to 205, that shit's crazy.

Kevin Lee 24:16 (laughs) That's some big boys.

Joe Rogan 24:18 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 24:18 That's some big boys.

Joe Rogan 24:18 That's a big gap.

Kevin Lee 24:20 Some of them 20... Uh, even 55 to 70-

Joe Rogan 24:22 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 24:22 ... because most guys, uh, you know, like, a normal-sized guy is about my size, 185, 190 pounds.

Joe Rogan 24:28 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 24:28 That puts you in that, in that middle, you know.

Joe Rogan 24:31 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 24:31 You got guys like me with a lot of muscle, where I'm not gonna lose a lot of fat in between, you know.

Joe Rogan 24:35 Right.

Kevin Lee 24:35 Even for this one, I was 177, but I was 4.5% body fat, you know. I couldn't really lean...... you can't get too much more lean than that. Uh, a six-

Joe Rogan 24:44 You were 4.5% body fat when you weighed in?

Kevin Lee 24:47 Yeah, before, uh... Well, I was 4.5% maybe two weeks before the fight actually.

Joe Rogan 24:51 But are you getting calipers or are you doing... How do they, how do they test it now?

Kevin Lee 24:54 Over at the, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:54 Dunking you in the water?

Kevin Lee 24:55 No. Over, over at the, uh, PI.

Joe Rogan 24:57 Really? Oh, that body thing?

Kevin Lee 24:57 They have, uh, special scales. Yeah. They've got like-

Joe Rogan 25:00 Oh. So those scales aren't that good.

Kevin Lee 25:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:01 Here's the thing about those scales. Those scales when you hold onto those things-

Kevin Lee 25:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:05 ... I mean some of them are okay, but the best way they say is submerging you. There's a submerge one and there's another one that uses some sort of like electricity thing, like you lie in a bed and it... I think the, the Performance Institute has that too. They were explaining that shit to me.

Kevin Lee 25:20 Yeah, yeah. The, the, the full scanner.

Joe Rogan 25:22 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 25:22 Yeah, I've done that, uh, uh, a few times. But it's much quicker-

Joe Rogan 25:25 Is that... Sounds-

Kevin Lee 25:25 ... much easier just to get on the scale. And as long as-

Joe Rogan 25:27 It just sounds real low. 4.5% sounds unusually low.

Kevin Lee 25:29 It does. But as long as it's, it's, uh, still the same measurement, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 25:35 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 25:35 As my last fight.

Joe Rogan 25:36 Right.

Kevin Lee 25:36 For the Tony fight I was 5.5% on those measurements.

Joe Rogan 25:39 So as long as it's in the same, with the same calipers or whatever the fuck they're using-

Kevin Lee 25:43 Yeah, I mean...

Joe Rogan 25:43 ... you know that you're basically on point. That's what you said.

Kevin Lee 25:44 Yeah, exactly. I, I, I can compare it at least. Uh, but again, I can't get much, that much leaner, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:49 Right.

Kevin Lee 25:50 It's, it's mostly just gonna come out water. If, if they add a 65 then, you know, I, I've got 10 more pounds of water that I don't have to cut out, which is fucking ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 25:57 How, how frustrating was it you, for you going into that Tony Ferguson fight with that staph infection? Because that was a, that was a serious fu-... I didn't notice it at the weigh-ins, but then the moment you walked into the cage... It was funny, man, because they were telling DC, "Don't talk about it."

Kevin Lee 26:10 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:11 Because I was going, "That's staph. That, that is fucking staph." And th- and they said to DC, "Don't talk about it."

Kevin Lee 26:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:16 He goes, "Yup, that looks like staph to me." (laughs)

Kevin Lee 26:18 He just ignored them. He's like, "Fuck you."

Joe Rogan 26:20 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 26:20 "I'm telling them. That's staph, man."

Joe Rogan 26:22 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 26:22 I don't get why they didn't want anybody bringing it up, because it's an important point and it's, it's, uh, an unfortunate thing that happens during training sometimes.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Yeah. It, uh... I kind of noticed it on that Sunday, you know, and then Tuesday we do the check-ins and everything and, uh, I had the girl, I'm like, "Can you, you know, put some makeup on it?" Because I didn't want the c-

Kevin Lee 26:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:41 ... you know, nobody to find out. And, uh, even Tony, him... You know, if he would've saw it, he would've knew, he knew I compromised, all that.

Kevin Lee 26:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:47 Um, but it... Yeah. It frustrated things, it made things a lot more complicated. It put me... It made the weight cut terrible. Uh, just to go back to it, I mean, I'm, I'm cutting from 76 to, to 50... I had to be 55 for that fight. And I tried my best to skim it down, uh, in about 12 hours. So I woke up at 5:00 AM with... at about 162, uh, and weigh-ins are between nine and 11. Um, and from 5:00 AM till 8:00 AM I had only cut one pound. Compared to in other cuts that have gone really well, I would normally cut about four or five pounds in that time, but because I, I just was feeling good and I wasn't worried about it, and thus... And I was using the same temperature of water, I was using the same everything, but the staph made m-... yeah, my body hold onto the water. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 27:37 So when I went down to check and saw that I was still, like, five pounds up with, like, two hours to go, they started, like, throwing boiling hot water on me to get, you know, to get my body-

Joe Rogan 27:47 Get you sweaty.

Kevin Lee 27:47 Yeah, to get me sweating to get it off.

Joe Rogan 27:49 Wow.

Kevin Lee 27:49 It was brutal.

Joe Rogan 27:50 Yeah, that's a... For, for no... For someone who doesn't... who never, never experienced staph, explain what it does to your body.

Kevin Lee 27:57 Yeah. It's-

Joe Rogan 27:57 How it makes you feel.

Kevin Lee 27:59 The next day I just... I felt so tired. I never felt as tired in my life. And it felt t-... I felt so tired to the point where I tried to counteract it by getting myself as pumped as I can. And, uh, the... You know, you normally get there two hours before the fight. When I walked into the arena that night two hours before, I was in a sweat. You know, my body was, like, full of adrenaline. I was like, "Sh-..."

Joe Rogan 28:22 You know, so you weren't taking any medication? You weren't going on any antibiotics? You figured...

Kevin Lee 28:25 I just-

Joe Rogan 28:25 Did you have to, to decide whether you should take antibiotics and then, you know, that compromises your endurance for sure?

Kevin Lee 28:32 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:32 Or just let your body fight it off?

Kevin Lee 28:33 I, I had it before, so I, I had been on the antibiotics and they just make me feel terrible.

Joe Rogan 28:37 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 28:37 You know, if you've ever, uh, been through it, I mean, it's, it's a terrible feeling. So I'd... I just was like, "You know what? I think I can just push through it." And I'm young and I was like, "F- you know what? Fuck it." Like, "Let's just go." Like...

Joe Rogan 28:49 Did you try any, like, uh, natural remedies like tea tree oil or anything like that?

Kevin Lee 28:54 Yeah, yeah. I, uh... Yeah. Uh, you know, it wasn't a whole lot I could take because I also gotta cut the weight still, you know?

Joe Rogan 28:58 Right.

Kevin Lee 28:58 Uh, but my-

Joe Rogan 28:58 There's, like, some topical stuff that... I mean, one of the things they say that works really well topical, believe it or not, is minced garlic.

Kevin Lee 29:05 Really?

Joe Rogan 29:06 Garlic, garlic apparently has a tremendous effect on staph infections.

Kevin Lee 29:10 I, I was swallowing whole cloves of ginger, I remember. I would, I would take ginger, I would chop it up, and I would swallow it, uh, to see if that would do something, but, you know, it's... It's hard.

Joe Rogan 29:18 It's hard.

Kevin Lee 29:18 Yeah, it's a hard... It's a lot better talk-

Joe Rogan 29:19 Garlic has some real strong antibacterial properties. And one of the people that I've had on the podcast many times, Dr. Rhonda Patrick said she, she had dealt with some persistent staph infection and she had like a, you know, hole in her skin. And what she did was she took garlic and packed it into that hole.

Kevin Lee 29:37 Genius.

Joe Rogan 29:37 And, and fucking killed it.

Kevin Lee 29:38 Oh, you're a genius.

Joe Rogan 29:39 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 29:39 I wish I would've known that before.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 29:41 I just kinda just fought through it. I was like, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna..."

Joe Rogan 29:45 D-Fense soap makes some really good stuff for that too. They make, uh, these essential oils. It's tea tree oil and eucalyptus oil and you, you put it on, like, right where the heaven is your-

Kevin Lee 29:53 But, but you should... Why were you, where were you in, in October? Come on. What the fuck's going on?

Joe Rogan 29:56 I would've been there for you, brother. I would've been there for you. Anybody out there that has that staph, um, anytime you have any sort of, uh, ringworm or staph or anything, there's some natural stuff. Not like some bullshit homeopathic nonsense, but some actual real natural stuff that can help you. And D-Fense soap specializes in that because, uh, Guy Sacco, the guy who owns the company, he, uh, is, you know, coaches wrestling and deals, deals with kids that always have ringworm and staph infections, so he came, he came out with these soaps, these natural soaps-

Kevin Lee 30:25 Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:25 ... that are just designed for grapplers. That's why it's called D-Fense soap.

Kevin Lee 30:28 Oh.

Joe Rogan 30:28 And then, um... I'll have them send you some.

Kevin Lee 30:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:31 And then the essential oils and balms and stuff, like, uh, ointments for scratches and shit like that-

Kevin Lee 30:36 Okay.

Joe Rogan 30:36 ... so they don't get infected. That's... You know, gyms, it's... You're always getting infected.

Kevin Lee 30:40 Yeah, and that's, uh... That was one of the biggest focuses of this camp, is just like make sure I stay healthy, because if, if you don't have your health you don't have nothing.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 30:46 Uh, and, and that was what it was at that Tony fight, and it just...... it, it became so... And I didn't wanna... It was such a big event and it was my first real big event too, uh, that I just wanted it all just to go right and go over. But, it ended up being just a lot on my bo- It, it... The staff, originally, I think it came from mental stress, you know? It was so many stresses going on, you know? You really look-

Joe Rogan 31:11 A lot of pressure.

Kevin Lee 31:11 Yeah, you, and you look at the three biggest stressors, you know, I was going through a divorce and I had just moved into a house. You look at those in a normal day-to-day life that, th- those are like, the two biggest stressors you can have. Uh, then to add on fighting for a world title in six weeks, so I'm just like, "Let's fucking go."

Joe Rogan 31:29 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 31:29 Like, I'm like, you know, I wasn't expecting to... I, I was thinking maybe, uh, they was gonna give me Tony, but maybe in December in D-

Joe Rogan 31:35 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 31:35 ... In Detroit or something like that.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Right.

Kevin Lee 31:37 But it was like, six weeks. I was like, "All right. Well fuck, let's do it."

Joe Rogan 31:40 That's right. They were thinking about doing you in Detroit, right? That was, uh, that was, that was the talk and you were requesting a big fight in Detroit.

Kevin Lee 31:46 Yeah, yeah. That's where all my like, you know, every year I kind of-

Joe Rogan 31:50 Sure.

Kevin Lee 31:50 ... Plan out my year and I, and I got my vision in my head. Uh, I gotta call them audibles in there. That was one of 'em. But, yeah. It, it ended up putting a little bit too much stress on me all, all at once and I took on a lot for, for that one, but-

Joe Rogan 32:02 You did.

Kevin Lee 32:03 ... I learned a lot.

Joe Rogan 32:03 But I'll tell you what, man. When you took him down and mounted him in the first round-

Kevin Lee 32:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:07 I was like, "Holy shit." 'Cause I know how good Tony is on the ground. You know, it's interesting because you don't... You look at someone when they fight, and this is one of the things that I've been saying about Khabib, um, it- it's because it's so hard 'cause he's doing what people do, right? He's taking people down, he's mounting them, grounding, pounding 'em. But he's doing it to people that other people can't do it to. And he's doing it in a way that it's like, "Wow, how good is this motherfucker?" Like, when he was mauling Michael Johnson, I was like, "How fucking good is he?" 'Cause this is crazy. Like, he's in that moment, several levels better than anybody Michael had fought before on the ground. And when I'm seeing you, first of all, see the Chiesa fight and right to this day, I'm like, "Jesus fucking Christ, just let him go out."

Kevin Lee 32:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:50 Let him go out and we would've known. That, that minor controversy from that moment, you got a fully locked in rear naked choke and he's still conscious.

Kevin Lee 32:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:59 Let him go out. If he doesn't wanna tap, let him go out.

Kevin Lee 33:02 He, he was going limp. He was limp.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Maybe. But let him go out.

Kevin Lee 33:06 But hi- you know, the defense isn't... You can't, you can't-

Joe Rogan 33:09 Some guys can.

Kevin Lee 33:10 But the thing is-

Joe Rogan 33:10 I know what you're saying, but I know Rickson can.

Kevin Lee 33:12 Yeah, but the thing is, it, the, you, the ref has, you can't put that on the ref, you know? It's defend yourself intelli-intelligently.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Wait, was that Mario? Was that Mario?

Kevin Lee 33:19 Yeah, it was Mario. But it's, it's defend yourself and-

Joe Rogan 33:22 Now I know why you're Mario's buddy. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 33:24 (laughs) But look, no, no. It's, it's defend yourself intelligently at all times.

Joe Rogan 33:28 Yes, yes.

Kevin Lee 33:28 You can't say I'm blocking punches with my face until the guy gets tired, you know? You can't say, "Oh, I'm just gonna try and sleep in this choke."

Joe Rogan 33:35 But what he said was he was trying to concentrate on his neck and just completely tense up his neck and try to push blood through.

Kevin Lee 33:42 If you, I've seen guys do that. Now- I, I feel you, but- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:45 But only to a point, right? Only to a point, right? And then you go to sleep. Let him go to sleep.

Kevin Lee 33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Let him go to sleep.

Kevin Lee 33:50 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Let him go to sleep.

Kevin Lee 33:50 I mean, yeah. I'm with you, he could've let him go to sleep. But, uh, I think as soon as he, as soon as Mario saw that his hands went from fighting the hands to doing this-

Joe Rogan 33:59 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 33:59 ... Mario stopped it. I mean, and, and I thought it was a good stoppage. I mean...

Joe Rogan 34:02 It's not a bad stoppage.

Kevin Lee 34:03 It's not a bad stoppage.

Joe Rogan 34:04 But, but that's-

Kevin Lee 34:04 But it was controversial, so.

Joe Rogan 34:05 You, you, you can call it odd things, controversy is always good.

Kevin Lee 34:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:08 I said that right after like, "Keep it up."

Kevin Lee 34:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:10 "Keep it going." That's true. Good for you.

Kevin Lee 34:11 Like, I love it. It got you to talk about it at least, so...

Joe Rogan 34:14 (laughs) Oh, it got everybody to talk about it.

Kevin Lee 34:15 Yeah, I know it.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Right, because it's an under card fight.

Kevin Lee 34:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 But it became like, bigger even than a lot of the other fights on the card because of that.

Kevin Lee 34:21 Yeah, yeah. Uh, no, no. We, uh, we headlined that, that event in Arizona.

Joe Rogan 34:24 It was it?

Kevin Lee 34:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Oh, why did I think it was-

Kevin Lee 34:26 It was, you know. Don't... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:27 I thought that was on pay-per-view.

Kevin Lee 34:28 Don't believe it. No, dude.

Joe Rogan 34:28 That's right, you're right.

Kevin Lee 34:29 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 34:29 I'm sorry.

Kevin Lee 34:30 Was doing my thing out there with that one.

Joe Rogan 34:32 My apology. Now that f- But that fight was really like, a top contender fight. I mean, Chiesa had been on a roll. He's very strong on the ground, which is one of the reasons why it was so impressive that you took his back and choked him like that.

Kevin Lee 34:43 Yeah, I mean, I think I have a different style than, than, uh, a lot of people can see, you know? You, you, you go back to Khabib and all this. Like, his style is, it's good. It's obviously very good, but I can see a lot of holes in it.

Joe Rogan 34:55 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 34:56 And I saw those holes many years ago. I've been calling out Khabib for years. I've been wanting to fight him just because people got those questions. I got those questions too, so I'm like, "Let's see what this motherfucker got." Like-

Joe Rogan 35:06 Right.

Kevin Lee 35:06 ... 'cause I see it. I see them holes, you know. I don't really focus on too much of the good. I'm like, "Ugh, I can, I can-"

Joe Rogan 35:11 What holes?

Kevin Lee 35:13 That boy number, I'm telling you, Joe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:15 What other holes? What do you see?

Kevin Lee 35:16 You know, e- even on some of his take, on a lot of his take downs, he misses a lot of 'em, you know. He's very square. He kind of just bum rushes, you know. People were talking about the Barboza fight before and they're like, "Are you looking at that fight and are you gonna try and build off that one?" I'm like, "Yeah, I mean, he did okay." He, the fight was good. He beat the hell out of Barboza, but I saw the holes in it, you know. He's just running square forward, at him, you know. He's g- he got hit with a lot of shots. Uh, I didn't see it.

Joe Rogan 35:40 It's terrifying for, for people on the outside watching him because the way he just came forward on Barboza-

Kevin Lee 35:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:46 ... it was like he was indestructible.

Kevin Lee 35:48 Yeah, I mean...

Joe Rogan 35:48 It's like he just, it didn't matter. I'm just gonna get you, it's just a matter of time. Keep throwing your kicks, I'm gonna get you. I'm gonna get you. Ooh, I got you.

Kevin Lee 35:54 You, you got those guys, but the body gives up, you know? Yeah, Justin Gaethje is the same way.

Joe Rogan 35:57 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 35:57 The body will give up at mid-way.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 36:00 You, you can't keep putting your body on the line like that. I mean, if he wants to run at me square for, square like that, that's... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:07 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 36:07 I can't... Where is everybody? I'm getting paid. I'm getting paid. I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 36:11 But I love Gaethje. I love watching him fight, but part of me is like, "Jesus, man." Just, if he mixed what he can do, 'cause he's one of the very best at leg kicks in close.

Kevin Lee 36:20 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:20 That dude will be in the middle of a combination like, chest to chest with you and then somehow or another, he whips a leg kick straight down on your leg. I mean, he's nasty with that.

Kevin Lee 36:29 He's, he's got a couple things that he does real good. You know, I, I've been studying Gaethje too.

Joe Rogan 36:33 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 36:33 He's just, he's just hard-headed than the... Like he's-

Joe Rogan 36:36 He's so great.

Kevin Lee 36:36 ... he don't care.

Joe Rogan 36:37 He just will take it.

Kevin Lee 36:38 He don't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Yeah, he'll just take it and just-

Kevin Lee 36:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:39 ... walk right into it. But it's, it seems like when you look at all the skills that he has, like, that would be better represented with some movement and some footwork and some other things.

Kevin Lee 36:49 Yeah, especially with a guy like Trevor Wittman in his corner.

Joe Rogan 36:52 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 36:52 You know, Trevor's a great, great coach.

Joe Rogan 36:54 Right, look what he, look what he did to Rose.

Kevin Lee 36:55 I mean, yeah. He's been, he-... they're, I think their styles are, are very opposite.

Joe Rogan 36:59 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 37:00 Uh, you know, he, he should probably listen to them a little bit more.

Joe Rogan 37:03 It's a challenge.

Kevin Lee 37:03 Like it's even one of the things with, with me and Robert Folles, you know, I, I had been with Robert, Robert was the, the pretty much the only reason why I moved to, to Vegas. Uh, because he, there, uh, there's a, there's a weird bond between like a fighter and a coach, you know, and, and he just got me more than any other coach before or, or since Will, you know.

Joe Rogan 37:24 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 37:24 Uh, we were very different, but he just understood me at a, at a, as an athlete a little bit more. And even some of the things that he would tell me, I wouldn't listen to it, like he, you know-

Joe Rogan 37:33 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 37:33 ... he'd be like, you know, he'd try and tell me to stay smart and, you know, not brawl 'cause I, uh, at the end of the day, Joe, I, I could, I'm like, "Fuck this, I'm gonna fight." You know, I'm gonna bite down on my mouthpiece. He tried to get me to be smarter, uh, and just some of the things that he would say to me resonated with me more than anybody else.

Joe Rogan 37:53 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 37:54 So I think now that he's gone, I've put what he said, it, it's still in my head and it, you know, I, I try and follow it even more now, you know.

Joe Rogan 38:04 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 38:05 Uh, I, and I, I wish somebody like Gaethje would listen to, to Tre- uh, wh- 'cause you know Whitman is telling him-

Joe Rogan 38:11 Right.

Kevin Lee 38:11 ... what to do, the right things to do. He should, he should probably listen to him though, he's smart.

Joe Rogan 38:14 Well, I, I think Trevor just tries to complement your style.

Kevin Lee 38:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 And Gaethje's style is just savage.

Kevin Lee 38:19 Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan 38:20 He's just, he's just going to war, "We're going to war."

Kevin Lee 38:22 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 38:22 Every time, we're going to war.

Kevin Lee 38:24 I, yeah, I guess but-

Joe Rogan 38:25 You know, I mean, I get it.

Kevin Lee 38:26 Yeah, but, you know, I, I think-

Joe Rogan 38:28 It's fun to watch.

Kevin Lee 38:29 I think you can, I think you learn from learning from somebody else, you know, I think everybody has what they do that, that's, like I said, I g- I, I try and create a strong team around me where everybody has what they do, and I'm just gonna try and listen to them.

Joe Rogan 38:41 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 38:42 You know, and, and even more so now. It, now that I understand that a little bit more as I'm getting older and, you know, going through life too, uh, with it, as I said with Rob. You know, uh, one of the, one of the reporters there, he asked me, he was like, uh, "We seen you in there talking." And they thought I was talking to Barboza, uh, but I was really just talking to myself. Like I was saying things that he would say, or, uh-

Joe Rogan 39:04 That Robert would say.

Kevin Lee 39:05 Yeah, that Robert would say, and I'm saying them to myself and I guess my mouth was moving. I don't really know.

Joe Rogan 39:11 Oh, wow.

Kevin Lee 39:11 I thought it was in my head the whole time, but, uh, I guess like some of the reporters could see it, uh, but, you know, I really tried to make that a focus on this fight.

Joe Rogan 39:18 That's interesting. So did you do that in sparring too?

Kevin Lee 39:21 Uh, I don't, I don't know. I, I usually try and-

Joe Rogan 39:24 Did you realize you were doing it until they brought it up?

Kevin Lee 39:26 I didn't realize I, no, not un- t- because he, when he asked me that, it kind of caught me off guard. Because I remember in the fight, I'm, I'm very cerebral, I, I, uh, I remember everything about it. Uh, but I remember I was gonna say something to Barboza too, you know, I, talking my shit, you know, I do it in fights from time to time.

Joe Rogan 39:42 Right.

Kevin Lee 39:43 But I didn't because he was a nice guy. I didn't realize that I was talking to myself too on, in it even.

Joe Rogan 39:48 So you were just kind of going through the things that you wanted to focus on in the fight while it was happening.

Kevin Lee 39:52 Yeah. I'm like sta- you know, even-

Joe Rogan 39:54 Do you remember what you were saying?

Kevin Lee 39:54 Even the kick, the kick that he landed, if you see like a microsecond before that I was nodding my head because I was, I was, I took my mind off him for a split second.

Joe Rogan 40:05 Mm.

Kevin Lee 40:05 I saw the knock out there, I seen him dip to his left and I'm like, "Oh, next time he dips, uh, I'm, I'm about to get it." So I started to, to talk and I, and I was like, uh, I was like, "I got this." And I took my mind off of him and he hit me with that fucking spin kick.

Joe Rogan 40:19 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 40:19 But what it should have said was, "Stay sharp."

Joe Rogan 40:22 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 40:22 You know, stay, stay focused. Like, that's what I was saying in the fourth and the fifth round after that kick landed, I was like, "Stay sharp, stay focused." And I'm, I'm just saying that to myself because that's what Rob would tell me. He wouldn't tell me to, you know, look for the knock out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:34 What was the thought process when you're gonna face a guy like Barboza, that's such a dangerous kicker? Was it a lot of feints plus pressure? Like, what was the thought process about getting close to him?

Kevin Lee 40:43 Uh, with a guy like Barboza, he throws everything so hard and so explosive, I knew I was gonna have to eat some of that, uh, and just keep pushing forward and just not take my eyes off of him. Even when I got wobbled and I was ro- I just tried not to take my eyes off of him.

Joe Rogan 40:57 Mm.

Kevin Lee 40:57 You know, with, with a, with a guy like that that's such a great athlete, uh, which is what I consider Barboza is. You know, Rob had these three things he put everybody in, an athlete, a competitor, or a fighter category. And Barboza was like the epitome of an athlete. Uh, but with that, you can't show him no, you can't show him that he's doing good, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 41:18 Mm-hmm. I'm seeing what you're saying.

Kevin Lee 41:19 So every time he was throwing, I'm just like...

Joe Rogan 41:21 Just walking it off, yeah.

Kevin Lee 41:22 Just walking it off.

Joe Rogan 41:23 That fucking switch kick is ridiculous. He's got the most ridiculous switch kick in the game.

Kevin Lee 41:26 Oh, it hurts like... It's so fast.

Joe Rogan 41:29 It's so fast. Uh, Mark DellaGrate who's seen some of the best of the best fight in Thailand in, in real, you know, in life, in like right there in person. He said, "I've never seen a guy with a faster switch kick." He goes, "Even the top, the, the most elite of the Thais." He goes, "That's the fastest switch kick he's ever seen."

Kevin Lee 41:44 Even, even when he was dead tired. I mean, I beat the hell out of him but, and he was still throwing. I was like, "How is this even possible?"

Joe Rogan 41:51 And fast too, even in the third and fourth round, swap.

Kevin Lee 41:53 And some of it, I'm kind of like looking while I'm in there, I'm like, "What is he doing that can make him do that?" You know, uh, I try and steal a little bit from every guy that I fight, especially, uh, and I'm like, "What is he doing that's allowing him to be that goddamn fast with it?" But, you know, I, I, I prepare right, I, I prepare with a lot of high level kickboxers that, you know, they got that style of kick and they just kick it before they can block off if you, you let them.

Joe Rogan 42:17 Yeah, you're gonna get something from that, right, like the, uh, a little, and DC always calls it the rub, you know, you fight someone who's real good, you get that rub from them, from him, you just realize now, oh, those kicks could come at you that fast.

Kevin Lee 42:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 You know?

Kevin Lee 42:28 I mean, and, and you get that in a lot of different ways, uh, like, like with Tony, you know, Tony had, did a lot of things in there that I didn't, uh, expect and I didn't, you know, didn't really plan for. There's only so much planning that you can do until you get in there and you need that experience to rely back on, and I feel like that's what I'm building up at a young age even.

Joe Rogan 42:47 It's possible for you to get a rematch with Tony.

Kevin Lee 42:49 No, I gotta get that one.

Joe Rogan 42:50 With Tony now coming off of that very disappointing, uh, fall, you know-

Kevin Lee 42:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:56 ... when he was, which is crazy.

Kevin Lee 42:57 I, I feel bad for the dude.

Joe Rogan 42:58 Oh, I need to say something too. This is very important. And I have, I actually have pictures too and I'm gonna send them to you right now, Jamie, so we can put it online. Because, uh, everybody was repeating the, the, the thought that he had worn sunglasses.

Kevin Lee 43:13 Mm.

Joe Rogan 43:14 Um, and that's why he fell down.... um, that he was wearing sunglasses inside-

Kevin Lee 43:18 Yeah, yeah, his little- Yeah, yeah, he'd be wearing them little, uh-

Joe Rogan 43:19 He misspoke.

Kevin Lee 43:21 ... little goggles.

Joe Rogan 43:21 He misspoke and he said it to, I think he said, "My prescription sunglasses to Ariel Helwani." I think that's what they were saying.

Kevin Lee 43:29 Oh, the, the, the square ones that he wears, uh, the clear-

Joe Rogan 43:32 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 43:32 Uh-

Joe Rogan 43:32 I'll send it... I'm gonna send it to Jamie right now, but it wasn't.

Kevin Lee 43:36 He, but he was probably wearing sunglasses too, though-

Joe Rogan 43:37 No, he wasn't.

Kevin Lee 43:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:38 I have, I have the photos. (laughs) Oh, he's silly. I'll find it. Goddammit.

Kevin Lee 43:43 Tony loves those sunglasses. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 43:45 I know he does love the- Okay, I know where it is. Um, he does love those sunglasses.

Kevin Lee 43:50 No, T- T- Tony's a smart guy, you know. I, I, I don't, I don't hold that against him. And it was probably something that was already, uh, injured in his leg and I f- eh, I feel bad for the guy. I really do. I don't think he'll ever be the same coming back off that one, espe-... That's a big... You know, he... I hear he detached it.

Joe Rogan 44:05 Yes, completely.

Kevin Lee 44:05 Detached it from the bone.

Joe Rogan 44:07 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 44:07 I mean, that, that's huge, especially at 34, to try and come back off that. That's uh, i- it's gonna... And it kinda sucks for me too 'cause I think I fought the best Tony Ferguson that you're gonna see, uh, period, really.

Joe Rogan 44:19 You think so? Because it was before that injury?

Kevin Lee 44:21 Yeah, I don't think he's gonna be the same again after it. And h- he'll come back and he'll still beat, uh, great guys. You know, he's still, he's still gonna do very good, but, you know, I don't, I don't think it'll, it'll be the same and, you know... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 44:32 Dammit. I got this photo in here somewhere. I'm gonna find it. I can't find it. I'll send it to you later, but in the photo, he's wearing glasses. He's not wearing pre- he's not wearing prescription sunglasses. He said... He misspoke and said, "Prescription sunglasses."

Kevin Lee 44:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:46 That's why Dana told me-

Kevin Lee 44:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:48 Dana's ruthless. Dana goes, "Everybody who wears sunglasses should ha- inside should have that happen to them."

Kevin Lee 44:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:54 (laughs) And that's just... This is after this huge fight fell apart, is what Dana said.

Kevin Lee 44:59 Yeah, I mean, he probably about right too, to be honest, but-

Joe Rogan 45:01 He's funny, man. Yeah, but, um, it wasn't... He wasn't wearing sunglasses.

Kevin Lee 45:07 Yeah, I mean, I just wanna-

Joe Rogan 45:07 I just wanna clear it up for Tony.

Kevin Lee 45:08 That, that... Like I said, I mean, I, I feel bad for him. I really do. I think he'll-

Joe Rogan 45:12 The good news is he can come back from that injury. That's an injury he can come back from.

Kevin Lee 45:15 At, at 34, especially with the way he trains, I mean, I think he... I think the body can come back, it's just I don't know if his mind will let him be as free as... That was one of Tony's biggest assets to the style, is he was... I mean, he just does whatever the fuck he wants, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:29 Right.

Kevin Lee 45:29 And now when he gets back in there, is he gonna be thinking about his knee? Even if it, that's in the back of your mind, it's still, it's, it's limited on that type of style that he, th- that he likes to fight.

Joe Rogan 45:38 Maybe you're, maybe you're just fucking with his head right now. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 45:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:44 Maybe you're planting some seeds, Kevin Lee.

Kevin Lee 45:46 (sighs) You never know. There's some money to be made, Joe. I gotta be-

Joe Rogan 45:49 Oh, I understand.

Kevin Lee 45:49 I gotta get it, boy.

Joe Rogan 45:50 I understand.

Kevin Lee 45:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:51 I gotta get it. Well, he will be out for quite a while.

Kevin Lee 45:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:53 I would imagine he won't be able to even really train hard for six months.

Kevin Lee 45:57 Yeah, at least. At least.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 45:58 He's at least a year out, so, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 46:00 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 46:00 ... I, I, I'll, I'll, I'll... Like I said, I mean, I... When I look at that and I see that fight and just, you know, how much different shit could be now.

Joe Rogan 46:08 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 46:08 You know? Uh, had I went into that fight healthy especially, I think the, the entire division would look different. But I'ma correct all that in a little bit. Let me-

Joe Rogan 46:16 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 46:16 Let me get my hands on Khabib first and-

Joe Rogan 46:17 Well, it's interesting.

Kevin Lee 46:19 ... we'll make it-

Joe Rogan 46:19 You're in the running now for sure, and before this fight, I think you were a slight underdog in the Barboza fight.

Kevin Lee 46:25 Yeah, probably.

Joe Rogan 46:26 But after that domination, I mean, you, you for sure moved, moved up and you're in the running now 100%. So you got Poirier who just looked real good against Gaethje and won that fight after getting his legs chewed up. Um, and then you've got... But, you know, Poirier, of course, was knocked out by Michael Johnson. And then you've got you coming off of the loss to Tony. Stormed the gates with this fight. And then you've got Eddie Alvarez who looked great against Justin Gaethje. The... It's very hot.

Kevin Lee 46:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:55 And then Conor is going to jail? Who the fuck says he's Conor-

Kevin Lee 46:57 (laughs) I mean-

Joe Rogan 46:58 Who knows what's happening?

Kevin Lee 46:58 ... we... Who knows what's happening?

Joe Rogan 46:59 I think that's the X-factor, is what's happening with Conor.

Kevin Lee 47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:01 Uh, I mean, Dustin is out there. He, he, he... But I just don't see no... I'm speaking as in from a fan, you know?

Kevin Lee 47:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:08 I, I just don't see no, uh, upsides to that, you know? I mean-

Kevin Lee 47:13 To you fighting him?

Joe Rogan 47:14 No, no, no. To, to, to him and Khabib. I mean, they could make it happen.

Kevin Lee 47:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:17 And, and Khabib will go out there and he'll smoke him. I mean, it... Let, let's just be real here. But, uh, I just don't see many fans getting behind that, just from what does Dustin bring to the table that Khabib ain't already seen to- But this is the big fight right now, I mean, just being completely honest. The big fight right now is Khabib and Conor-

Kevin Lee 47:33 100%.

Joe Rogan 47:34 ... in Russia. That's the big fight.

Kevin Lee 47:35 100%.

Joe Rogan 47:36 That's the big fight.

Kevin Lee 47:36 Or even Madison Square Garden. I mean, they, they can, they can make that happen.

Joe Rogan 47:39 I don't think New York-

Kevin Lee 47:40 Uh-

Joe Rogan 47:40 ... is ever letting that motherfucker fight there again.

Kevin Lee 47:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:42 I just don't think they're gonna do that. The- They don't play games, man. That athletic commission-

Kevin Lee 47:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:46 ... is a different commission and they're new to MMA and that was embarrassing for them. I mean, him throwing the fucking dolly and the fact that they let them get in there with all his boys and the whole thing was just so thuggish.

Kevin Lee 47:56 And didn't the thing in Bellator happen in, uh... Was that in New York or New Jersey? I don't remember.

Joe Rogan 48:00 What thing happened in Bellator?

Kevin Lee 48:02 Uh, where he, where he's... went over and slapped Goddard and all that and, you know, called-

Joe Rogan 48:05 Oh, was that Bellator?

Kevin Lee 48:06 ... as people... Yeah, he called people bitches and hos and, you know, he-

Joe Rogan 48:08 When was that? I wanna say that was in Ireland or England.

Kevin Lee 48:11 Was it in Ireland?

Joe Rogan 48:12 I think it was in England. I wanna say it was in London. Wasn't that the Bellator London card?

Kevin Lee 48:18 I don't know. I don't know, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:19 I don't know, but that Goddard thing was crazy.

Kevin Lee 48:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:22 You know? I mean-

Kevin Lee 48:22 I felt like that happened on, on the East Coast too, but I mean, if it-

Joe Rogan 48:24 That was one-

Kevin Lee 48:25 But that was one. Either way, it's just, you know-

Joe Rogan 48:25 ... and this is two. It's like he just-

Kevin Lee 48:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:26 ... keeps fucking up with this kinda stuff.

Kevin Lee 48:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:29 And, and you know, no one's saying get rid of him. You know, he's just, he's worth so much money. It's really fascinating. What I was saying is imagine if Ray Borg and him switched sides. If Ray Borg-

Kevin Lee 48:41 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:41 ... showed up with all his boys and was screaming and yelling and threw a dolly at the window-

Kevin Lee 48:46 It's done deal.

Joe Rogan 48:46 It's done deal forever.

Kevin Lee 48:48 Oh, it's done deal.

Joe Rogan 48:48 Forever.

Kevin Lee 48:48 Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, Ray-

Joe Rogan 48:49 Think about Paul Daley. What... Paul Daley must be at home going, "Motherfucker." (laughs)

Kevin Lee 48:54 (laughs) Hey, look, it's certain things-

Joe Rogan 48:56 "Fuck Dana White."

Kevin Lee 48:57 It's certain things that, that we just can't do. You know, Paul, I'm sorry, it's-

Joe Rogan 49:02 Well, until you get to that stratosphere-

Kevin Lee 49:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:06 ... that Conor McGregor... Th- that's like there's so much money to be made. That's the problem. It's like the, the rules get bent. Paul, Paul Daley was... did was throw a punch-

Kevin Lee 49:15 As he was... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:16 ... at Josh Koscheck after. It didn't even connect.

Kevin Lee 49:18 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:18 Like that could've been sorted out.

Kevin Lee 49:20 Yeah. A- and, uh, you even had guys like, like Will Brooks, who kinda got the hammer put down on him, didn't he? Uh, after he got knocked out and then pushed the ref. Uh, I think ... Was that Will Brooks?

Joe Rogan 49:30 Was that Will?

Kevin Lee 49:30 I'm sorry. I don't ... Was it ... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Hmm.

Kevin Lee 49:33 You're looking at me funny. I don't know. Was it Will?

Joe Rogan 49:34 I'm thinking. I'm thinking you're right.

Kevin Lee 49:36 It was somebody, y- you know, he got knocked out and then pushed the ref right after and it's like, they put a lot on ... Oh, no, it wasn't Will Brooks. I'm sorry. It was, uh, uh, uh ... Ah, God. 170 pounder.

Joe Rogan 49:47 Hmm. I know who you're talking about.

Kevin Lee 49:49 Damn.

Joe Rogan 49:50 God dammit, who was that?

Kevin Lee 49:53 God, this is gonna kill me. Sorry. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:56 But, but-

Kevin Lee 49:56 But e- either way.

Joe Rogan 49:57 ... we'll figure it out. Someone will find it.

Kevin Lee 49:57 Y- you know, and, and they held him against him.

Joe Rogan 49:59 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 49:59 And, and he was concussed.

Joe Rogan 50:00 Yeah. Right.

Kevin Lee 50:00 You know, you didn't know. You barely know where you at after that.

Joe Rogan 50:03 Jason High.

Kevin Lee 50:03 Jason High.

Joe Rogan 50:03 That's it.

Kevin Lee 50:03 Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 See.

Kevin Lee 50:05 Yeah. And great fighter too.

Joe Rogan 50:06 He, he's a very good fighter.

Kevin Lee 50:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:07 And what people don't understand-

Kevin Lee 50:09 Look, if-

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... is that once you get knocked out and then you come back, you really don't know what happened.

Kevin Lee 50:12 If-

Joe Rogan 50:12 You're, you're really out of it.

Kevin Lee 50:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:14 Who, who knocked him out? Who stopped him?

Kevin Lee 50:16 Uh, it was Dos Anjos, right?

Joe Rogan 50:17 It was Dos Anjos.

Kevin Lee 50:17 Yeah, yeah, it was Dos Anjos, uh, Pujols.

Joe Rogan 50:18 It was Dos Anjos welterweight debut, right?

Kevin Lee 50:21 Uh-

Joe Rogan 50:21 No, that was lightweight.

Kevin Lee 50:22 No, it was at 55 still. Yeah, 55 still.

Joe Rogan 50:23 55, yeah.

Kevin Lee 50:23 Yeah. But a- again, he was a great fighter. I mean, it's just certain things that, uh, (laughs) we just can't do, Joe.

Joe Rogan 50:30 Oh, y- we meaning people of color, is that what you're saying?

Kevin Lee 50:33 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I don't wanna say it that way.

Joe Rogan 50:34 Well, do you think that Floyd Mayweather could do it though? It's-

Kevin Lee 50:36 No, Floyd can do it.

Joe Rogan 50:36 I just think it's people with ... That h- he's ... There's a level-

Kevin Lee 50:40 When you-

Joe Rogan 50:40 ... to the game where you're so valuable-

Kevin Lee 50:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:43 ... that you ... Look, if Conor McGregor does a pay-per-view fight, especially if they do ... You heard all that crazy nonsense they were gonna do with McGregor, like no shoes.

Kevin Lee 50:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:52 You can clinch, but no kicks.

Kevin Lee 50:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:54 No take downs, no submi- if they ever did that-

Kevin Lee 50:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:57 ... they're gonna ... They're just printing money.

Kevin Lee 50:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:58 They're printing money.

Kevin Lee 50:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:59 And it's-

Kevin Lee 50:59 I mean, 100%, but-

Joe Rogan 51:00 So hard for them to not take that money.

Kevin Lee 51:03 But ... I mean, a- and I don't hold that against them, and I've always said that about the UFC. The UFC about the green.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 51:07 And I, and I understand that. And it's, uh, that's kinda where I'm coming from, i- from, but y- you know, it's just-

Joe Rogan 51:13 Consistency.

Kevin Lee 51:15 Yeah. Well, you a- I think you just have to realize as a, as a, as a Black man in America really, like, there's two ways to approach a situation. You can either be the victim or you could just say it is what it is. That's some circumstances. You know, uh, Black people just don't support other Black people the way the Irish support the Irish, the Russians support ...

Joe Rogan 51:32 (laughs)

Kevin Lee 51:32 I mean, I'm just being real with you. That's why-

Joe Rogan 51:33 Well, but the reality is, white people in America don't support white Americans the way the Irish support Conor.

Kevin Lee 51:39 D- that o- o- nobody does.

Joe Rogan 51:39 Nobody does. They're-

Kevin Lee 51:39 100%. I mean-

Joe Rogan 51:40 That is-

Kevin Lee 51:40 And it's an American thing. I mean, for-

Joe Rogan 51:42 Were you in Vegas when he was fighting, when he was, uh, fighting Mayweather? Do you see the fucking, the people that were in Mandalay Bay, which wasn't even where the fight was taking place.

Kevin Lee 51:50 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:50 The entire place was flooded with people singing together.

Kevin Lee 51:53 Uh, when he fought Dustin Poirier, uh, at 178, they kept me up all f- ... I was on the undercard of that fight. They kept me up all fucking night-

Joe Rogan 52:01 Just singing.

Kevin Lee 52:01 ... in the, in the MGM, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:02 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:02 They were running up and down the, the, the, the halls, uh, of the MGM like ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:07 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:08 The security couldn't stop them. I mean, they, they, they're crazy. They rabid.

Joe Rogan 52:11 They're crazy.

Kevin Lee 52:12 They ... But that's, that's what's gonna ... I mean, obviously he had great performances on top of it.

Joe Rogan 52:16 For sure.

Kevin Lee 52:16 But that definitely helps, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 52:18 Oh, yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:19 When, when your first fight, uh, in the UFC debut is in Boston and they're going crazy for you like that-

Joe Rogan 52:24 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:24 You just don't see that much, uh ... And it, and it's sad really. Uh, you, you talk about Floyd Mayweather. Really, how Floyd got big like that is he had to go against the Mexicans and, you know, he had to get them to really hate him-

Joe Rogan 52:34 Right.

Kevin Lee 52:35 ... in order to get big, you know.

Joe Rogan 52:36 Exactly. Yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:37 It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 52:37 But that's also his style. Whereas Conor's style is very different 'cause he knocks guys dead. It's a different style. You know, like, make ... Remember when Tyson was in his prime? You knew no one was gonna beat him. It was just-

Kevin Lee 52:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 ... you were waiting to see the executions. But you were just a little boy at the time.

Kevin Lee 52:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:51 You probably weren't even born.

Kevin Lee 52:52 Yeah. My, my pops was a huge Mike Tyson fan.

Joe Rogan 52:54 What, what time were you born?

Kevin Lee 52:55 Uh, '92.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Yeah, see?

Kevin Lee 52:56 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Jesus Christ, you missed everything.

Kevin Lee 52:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:59 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 52:59 But my pops was a huge Mike Tyson fan.

Joe Rogan 53:00 Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Lee 53:00 I'm a huge boxing fan, so you know, I go back and I'm, I'm-

Joe Rogan 53:02 You were born in '92? That's hilarious.

Kevin Lee 53:04 I'm a huge boxing fan. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 53:05 Just as old as the UFC actually, so there you go.

Joe Rogan 53:07 That's crazy, right?

Kevin Lee 53:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:08 Pretty much, right?

Kevin Lee 53:09 Look at that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:09 It was bo- a year after you were born it started.

Kevin Lee 53:11 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:12 Yeah, man. But the, the Tyson days, he was the biggest pay-per-view draw, but it was really just you were watching an execution.

Kevin Lee 53:18 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:18 And there was also like people were thinking like, "Man, is this gonna be worth it? How long is this one gonna last?" Like, people were-

Kevin Lee 53:22 But, but he still, but he still, he was ... He had to be the villain a little bit.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 53:25 You know?

Joe Rogan 53:26 Little bit.

Kevin Lee 53:26 And that, and that's the ... E- every ... And it ... I mean, it sucks to say this, just like every real big Black fighter is usually the villain, you know. And that, and that, that's the way that we kind of get over-

Joe Rogan 53:36 But Anthony Joshua is not, but that's not American.

Kevin Lee 53:38 He's a ... Yeah, he's British. That's different.

Joe Rogan 53:40 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 53:40 You know, he's, he's-

Joe Rogan 53:40 He's totally different, man.

Kevin Lee 53:41 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:41 He's loved over there.

Kevin Lee 53:43 He's totally diff- it's ... Yeah, it's a totally different atmosphere. And I mean, it's ...

Joe Rogan 53:45 When was the last time we had a really loved African American fighter in America?

Kevin Lee 53:52 I mean, they're, they're, they're out there. I mean, for sure. People love Roy Jones.

Joe Rogan 53:55 Shawn Royal Leonard.

Kevin Lee 53:56 Pe- people ro-

Joe Rogan 53:56 Roy Jones, for sure.

Kevin Lee 53:57 People love ... And, and people loved Muhammad Ali after, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 54:00 But even Roy Jones took some shit for being cocky.

Kevin Lee 54:03 ... after his career, especially. Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 54:03 You know, because-

Kevin Lee 54:04 You have to, you have to.

Joe Rogan 54:04 ... he was so dominant.

Kevin Lee 54:07 Shit, that's the culture. But that's the culture though.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 54:08 You gotta be cocky. You gotta be, you gotta be all those things. Like, I ... Even the way I ... I talk a lot of shit. But that's just-

Joe Rogan 54:13 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 54:14 That's just 'cause that's the culture. Like, that's what I do. I mean, it's ...

Joe Rogan 54:16 Well, it's also an effective mind, like, mind game strategy. Like, a guy who's talking shit to you, it makes you more anxious, more nervous-

Kevin Lee 54:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:27 ... more emotions, more everything.

Kevin Lee 54:29 Wi- with certain guys. You know, there's certain guys that you can play that to. Uh, like I say, everybody's got, like, those three categories, you know. You ... With athletes especially, athletes and competitors.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Lee 54:39 You know, they kinda, you know, get more shooken up by stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 54:41 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 54:41 But a fighter don't give a fuck. You know, you talk shit to Nate Diaz, he don't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 54:44 Right. The perfect example.

Kevin Lee 54:46 Like, he- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:46 He loves it.

Kevin Lee 54:46 You know, he love it. Like ...

Joe Rogan 54:46 He likes it. Yeah.

Kevin Lee 54:47 He likes it more. Me, I like it a little bit more. Conor, you could tell, he likes it a little bit more.

Joe Rogan 54:52 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 54:52 Uh, it gets my mind off the actual fight itself because that's what we grew up, like talking shit.

Joe Rogan 54:58 Right.

Kevin Lee 54:58 You know? So it's ...

Joe Rogan 54:59 Some guys though, it rattles them. You know the best-

Kevin Lee 55:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:01 ... I've ever seen, the best response to someone shit talking? Rose Namajunas.

Kevin Lee 55:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:06 She, she just went-

Kevin Lee 55:06 Masterful.

Joe Rogan 55:07 ... dark.

Kevin Lee 55:07 Masterful.

Joe Rogan 55:08 She went like a-

Kevin Lee 55:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:09 ... like a monk.

Kevin Lee 55:09 I'm a huge Rose fan.

Joe Rogan 55:10 She's so badass.

Kevin Lee 55:12 Uh ... (laughs) Yeah. She's dope. I-

Joe Rogan 55:13 She might be the best looking girl in the UFC and she shaves her fucking head and never wears makeup. She doesn't give a fuck.

Kevin Lee 55:18 Yeah, yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 55:19 It's crazy.

Kevin Lee 55:20 Yeah. And she's, I mean, and-... a phenomenal, phenomenal fighter. Uh-

Joe Rogan 55:24 Phenomenal?

Kevin Lee 55:24 Yeah, I mean, it's just-

Joe Rogan 55:25 But, just when she was standing in front of Ioana and she was citing the Lord's Prayer-

Kevin Lee 55:29 Gangsta. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:30 ... Ioana's like, "I'm the boogeyman come to get you. I'm the boogeyman." And she's like, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name."

Kevin Lee 55:35 (laughs) Like, it was the most gangster shit you ever heard in your life.

Joe Rogan 55:39 It was crazy.

Kevin Lee 55:39 It was like a movie.

Joe Rogan 55:40 It was crazy. Dude, she made me nervous.

Kevin Lee 55:41 Yeah, no, I'm a big fan.

Joe Rogan 55:42 She made me nervous when I was standing next to her.

Kevin Lee 55:43 That's what the thing with, uh, you know, people look at my style even if the way I promote and, uh, and talk fights and, you know, talk shit or whatever. Uh, but there's so many ways to do it, you know? There's so many ways to, like, entertain and have fun with it. You don't always have to be "I'm gonna smack the shit outta your momma," and all this.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Right, right.

Kevin Lee 56:00 And, you know, there's so many different ways. You can, you can not say anything and it be, come off just as fucking gangster as-

Joe Rogan 56:06 Right.

Kevin Lee 56:07 ... you know, the dude that's screaming from across the room.

Joe Rogan 56:09 But there is a pressure, right? Isn't there pressure on fighters to sell and hype fights, to talk a lot of shit? I mean, you see in Colby Covington taking it-

Kevin Lee 56:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:17 ... off the deep end. He goes, he goes so crazy I don't even think they let him go to Brazil.

Kevin Lee 56:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:22 Like, when I heard that he was gonna fight dos Anjos in Brazil-

Kevin Lee 56:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:25 ... it's like, "No, Colby!"

Kevin Lee 56:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:26 I was thinking of reaching out and telling people, like, to call it, bring your own water. Whatever you do. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 56:30 I mean, I guess he doing his thing. He, he still winning fights.

Joe Rogan 56:34 Yeah. For sure.

Kevin Lee 56:35 Uh, so at the end of the day-

Joe Rogan 56:36 He beat Maia.

Kevin Lee 56:36 ... that's what really matters is, is that he's winning fights. But yeah, I mean, that style is-

Joe Rogan 56:40 He's got us talking about him. He's got us talking about him. You know?

Kevin Lee 56:43 Yeah, that too. That too. But that style, I mean, is, is... That shit get played out. And you could just, you could just tell. And when it, when it's forced i- is not good. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 56:52 Well, he just goes, he goes against people he doesn't have to. Like, he was talking some shit about Jon Jones.

Kevin Lee 56:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:58 Like, Jon Jones will smack you in your fucking face and there's not much you're gonna be able to do about it.

Kevin Lee 57:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:02 One day you might be in front of him, and then what are you gonna do? You know, I mean, just... You're not even fighting Jon Jones. Why are you talking shit about Jon?

Kevin Lee 57:10 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 57:10 It doesn't make any sense.

Kevin Lee 57:11 I don't know. Uh, a couple people, even, even females, like, he started to... I mean, I guess he's h- he's just trying to get the noise running or whatever.

Joe Rogan 57:16 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 57:16 I just think it's so many different ways to do it. That's, that's like the most primitive way of, you know, kind of trying to sell-

Joe Rogan 57:23 Right.

Kevin Lee 57:23 ... yourself and sell a fight. It's like, there's so many ways.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 57:25 Like, even me, like I, I came up with... A lot of the shit that I, that I started doing, I just, like, kinda came up with, you know? Like-

Joe Rogan 57:31 In the moment.

Kevin Lee 57:32 Yeah, just... (laughs) Well, before the, the, the bi- the o- the first big one was the Mike Chiesa thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 57:38 Yeah.

Kevin Lee 57:38 Where, where I kinda hit him at the press conference. Uh, but going into that, my, my mindset wasn't like, "Oh, let me, you know, talk as much shit as I can about him." You know?

Joe Rogan 57:51 Right.

Kevin Lee 57:51 Or, "Let me, you know, jump up and down and, and all this." You know, it just was I did have that... I wanted to stand out.

Joe Rogan 57:58 Right.

Kevin Lee 57:58 Not necessarily that I wanted to entertain. I just was like, "I want, I want a stage." I'm sitting behind fucking Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier. Like, I'm like a kid in a candy store, you know? Like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:07 Right.

Kevin Lee 58:07 Uh, so I just, I wanted to stand out as much as possible, you know? And be confident.

Joe Rogan 58:13 Do you feel like now that you've had a few of these big fights, right? The Chiesa fight was a high profile fight, and then, of course, the Tony fight was very high profile, and then this last Barboza fight was a real big fight.

Kevin Lee 58:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:22 Do you feel like now you've, like, settled more into the fact that not only do you de- do you belong here, you deserve to be here, but you're more comfortable being here?

Kevin Lee 58:32 Yeah, there's a, there's that saying, like, the fake it till you make it.

Joe Rogan 58:35 Right. (laughs)

Kevin Lee 58:36 You know? (laughs) Like, for real. Like, and that's, that's not a joke.

Joe Rogan 58:39 When were you faking it? Like, when did you feel like you were fake... Well, obviously you were never really faking it because you were winning fights.

Kevin Lee 58:44 I exaggerated- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:45 A little bit.

Kevin Lee 58:45 ... certain, you know? Like, I exaggerated certain shit. Like, I, I was having fun with it, but I w- I was kinda learning on the job too, uh, because, like, doing interviews and stuff like that, it takes some...