JRE MMA Show #28 with Georges St-Pierre

Georges St-Pierre 0:03 Going to the contender after, Freddie Roach.

Joe Rogan 0:07 Oh, really?

Georges St-Pierre 0:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:08 Nice. Live? Boom, we're live. You wanna wear headphones or no?

Georges St-Pierre 0:12 Yeah. It's better like this, right?

Joe Rogan 0:13 Do you wear... Y- uh, your cauliflower ears, they keep you from wearing earbuds.

Georges St-Pierre 0:17 Uh...

Joe Rogan 0:18 You know, those little things that go in your ear?

Georges St-Pierre 0:20 But it... Do I need to it? No, I don't need it.

Joe Rogan 0:21 No. You don't need it. You don't have to.

Georges St-Pierre 0:22 Yeah, so I don't- I don't-

Joe Rogan 0:23 You don't have to. Just keep this close to your face and we're good.

Georges St-Pierre 0:27 All right.

Joe Rogan 0:27 There we go. What's up, man? How are you?

Georges St-Pierre 0:30 Fantastic.

Joe Rogan 0:31 You look good.

Georges St-Pierre 0:32 I feel good. I feel, uh, if it would not be for my, uh, like, ulcer that I had, I would be... I- I feel better than- than when I was 25.

Joe Rogan 0:41 What did- what did you have? You had colitis?

Georges St-Pierre 0:43 Yeah, colitis. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:43 What- what is that? How did... What causes that?

Georges St-Pierre 0:46 We don't really know what it caused it, but, uh, the best- the best, uh, theory is that, uh, before my last fight with Michael Bisping, I tried to put on weight, extra weight. So I followed a- a diet pro- program that I was eating every... almost every two hours. And, um, I think your system is like a car, you know, if you do a lot of mileage, it overuse it and then... So that's what happened with the stress and everything. During my training camp, I had big problem, you know, I couldn't sleep, I had crazy cramps, you know, sometimes I had-

Joe Rogan 1:21 Oh.

Georges St-Pierre 1:22 ... I had blood even like that... when I went to the bathroom, at one point, I had to go do some tests because I was worried that it was something more s-... like, I mean, colitis is very serious, but that it was like cancer or something 'cause it had blood. So I did some tests, it came out negative and I said to myself, I said, "This fight been delayed..." Not delayed, but postponed so many times that if I do something, if I say that publicly what is going on, I'm gonna lose the opportunity to fight for the title, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:53 ... at 185. So I- I keep it shut and I told myself, I said, "Whatever it is, I'll deal with it after the fight." So I did the fight, everything went well. Then after I went to do, uh, it's called a colonoscopy. They put a camera inside of you.

Joe Rogan 2:07 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 2:07 And I did... I got diagnosed with ulcer colitis. That's probably the mix of the stress and also the- the fact that I was...

Joe Rogan 2:14 Constantly eating.

Georges St-Pierre 2:15 I was eating, and not only eating, Joe, I was trying to put on some weight. It was very hard. Sometimes I was... I remember many times I was having breakfast, but I was regurgia- regurgitating my breakfast.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Oh.

Georges St-Pierre 2:25 Like, chew- chewing up.

Joe Rogan 2:26 'Cause you were just eating too much food.

Georges St-Pierre 2:27 Yeah, b- but I had to because I needed to keep myself in a certain weight and the- the crazy thing about it is, first, now I realize it's a mistake, I should never have done it, but when I made the weight at 185 the day before the fight, I could not go back up to 190. That's the- the highest I was going back up. So the day of the fight, I- I woke up and I had a little breakfast. I threw up my breakfast again. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:56 Wow.

Georges St-Pierre 2:56 Yeah, I was- I was really messed up. Then I went to weigh myself, I was like 190... 190 pounds.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Wow.

Georges St-Pierre 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:02 And what do you think Mike weighed?

Georges St-Pierre 3:04 He felt very strong. I mean, it's not really the weight at this time because, y- the way that you weigh right now, depending on what you eat, you have a lot of stuff inside your- your- your intestine and everything, so you... and also water retention. I felt like I had a lot of water retention and, um...

Joe Rogan 3:22 Unnecessary weight.

Georges St-Pierre 3:23 Exactly. So it's like dead weight. It's like a bag that you carry on your shoulder. So what I should have done, I think, is just stay the same way that I am-

Joe Rogan 3:30 Mm.

Georges St-Pierre 3:30 ... my natural weight. I think the body has a way that it's- it's best way to perform an athletic performance, and that's what I should have done and-

Joe Rogan 3:39 Right, I see what you're saying.

Georges St-Pierre 3:40 But it was a mistake of my part. It was a big mistake.

Joe Rogan 3:42 So you were just thinking that because you're going up to 185 and you're fighting a guy in Bisping that used to fight at 205...

Georges St-Pierre 3:48 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 3:48 He's a pretty big guy.

Georges St-Pierre 3:50 Exactly. That... I thought that to- to perform better, I needed to, uh, elevate my weight, but by doing that, I create my s-... I create a big problem of health issues. So, uh...

Joe Rogan 4:01 And that- that colitis didn't exist before that?

Georges St-Pierre 4:04 Uh, not that I got diagnosed for, no. No.

Joe Rogan 4:08 Mm.

Georges St-Pierre 4:08 And, uh, I think that- that's what trigger it.

Joe Rogan 4:11 And so after the fight, now that you've gone back to a normal diet, has it changed?

Georges St-Pierre 4:15 So- so after the fight, what happened, a- and it's very interesting to... I got on- on medication and I- I met a doctor that his name is Jason Fung, he's in Toronto. People can research, he's- he's amazing- amazing guy. And I met a doctor that- that treat people with cancer and diabetes with intermittent fasting. So I start doing a- a program of intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating, and now my symptom diminish. Like, every- every weeks, every month it diminish. So it got... It's getting better. It's not 100% now, but it's getting a- a lot better. A lot better.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 4:51 And I feel a lot better.

Joe Rogan 4:53 (coughs) A lot of people eat like that now. We had Ben Greenfield on yesterday...

Georges St-Pierre 4:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:57 ... who, uh, you know, he's a- a journalist who does a lot of experimenting with his body, done a lot- a lot of scientific stuff and, uh, scientific, uh- uh, research on diet and- and restricted eating is a big part of it. He does a lot of that.

Georges St-Pierre 5:11 It's interesting because, um... we're conditioned to think that, "Oh, I wanna... I wanna gain muscle, I wanna get..." You know, "I need to eat more to accelerate my metabolism."

Joe Rogan 5:20 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 5:20 But- but I never felt better in my life. If we would not be for that particular issue, I- I feel better now. I- I- I sleep better. Uh, I, uh... Inflammation and I also did a test. In January, I went to McGill University to do a scan of my, uh, my weight, my per- my fat percentage, my, uh, muscle density, bone density, and my, um... In five months, I did it a few days ago, like, not th- not this week, the Tuesday of the last week, and my- my fat percentage has, uh, decreased, my muscle mass has increased, and my weight is at the same...

Joe Rogan 6:00 Mm.

Georges St-Pierre 6:00 ... than it was in January. So-

Joe Rogan 6:02 And you think this is all from restricted eating?

Georges St-Pierre 6:04 ... my, my training did not have changed.

Joe Rogan 6:06 Hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 6:06 So the only thing that's changed pretty much is the, the, the, the restricting. Restricted, uh, time eating-

Joe Rogan 6:12 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 6:13 ... and ti- uh, intermittent fasting, yes.

Joe Rogan 6:14 Yeah, that intermittent fasting gives your digestive system a break and it lets your body recuperate better.

Georges St-Pierre 6:20 I think-

Joe Rogan 6:21 (coughs)

Georges St-Pierre 6:21 ... yeah, that, that's why they helped me o- out the most. Yeah, I think it, that's what it is. Uh, it, I felt like, uh, I was like, like, like I said, like a car. I was-

Joe Rogan 6:29 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 6:29 ... just putting too much for nothing, and I think as human being, we're o- overfed.

Joe Rogan 6:33 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 6:33 I, um, I'm very interested about paleontology and, and also, uh, history, and I know that human being in hunter/gatherer time did not eat three meal a day.

Joe Rogan 6:45 No, no.

Georges St-Pierre 6:45 They, they eat maybe a few times a week, but when they eat, they eat a lot-

Joe Rogan 6:49 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 6:50 ... 'cause they need to, to do it fast. So I think it's more natural for a human being to do so. And also, I, I, now, I read a lot of stuff and I watch a lot of stuff on the internet about intermittent fasting and time-restricted a- eating. And I just wish I, I knew that before. Uh, for so many years, I, I, I, I used to follow the rules, "Oh, we need to eat at least three time a day." And then-

Joe Rogan 7:11 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 7:12 ... you know, I don't really care of what I eat, but I, I've, you know, uh, even though in the morning, I, I wa- I, I was not hungry, I was al- always m- forcing myself to eat-

Joe Rogan 7:21 Hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 7:21 ... which is bad, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah. What, what has changed in your diet? Like, what do you eat? Like, what's a, what's a normal meal for you?

Georges St-Pierre 7:27 Uh, nor- I don't really-

Joe Rogan 7:29 (clears throat)

Georges St-Pierre 7:29 I don't really watch what I eat anymore. Uh, I, it's more of when I eat. Uh, I try to eat healthy, but I don't have a specific diet that I, like, for example, like, "Oh, Tuesday, I'm gonna eat this, this, this."

Joe Rogan 7:41 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 7:42 That's not how it works. Uh, I just try to eat healthy, you know? Like, I, I, I, I try to eat good, and, uh, of course, I, I don't look at, "Oh, this is a dessert." I'm... You know, if I want a dessert, a chocolate, I'll, I'll, I'll get it.

Joe Rogan 7:55 Oh, I remember that from one of your old, uh, videos. Like, you were having a glass of wine during training camp. You're like, "Uh, there's nothing wrong with one glass of wine."

Georges St-Pierre 8:03 Well, if you think about it, Joe, I, I don't think a glass of wine or anything... L- you know, before a fight where some- we have the tendency to be too much like, "Oh, what should I eat? What should I do this? Should I do that?" I think it's, man, it's-

Joe Rogan 8:18 Too tense?

Georges St-Pierre 8:18 ... too tense, exactly.

Joe Rogan 8:19 Yeah, yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 8:20 I've met... When I went in Thailand, I met some-

Joe Rogan 8:22 (coughs)

Georges St-Pierre 8:22 ... some world champion Thai boxer, and they smoke, they get drunk before the fight.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 8:27 I'm like, "You're fighting tomorrow, man." It's like, it's like, "Oh," it's like, "it's no problem." But when you think about it, this is an extreme. This is to the other extreme.

Joe Rogan 8:36 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 8:38 But I don't think it has that much of an effect. Uh, you know, what I w- I used to eat before, like, before a fight? My meal of choice, before I, I got into reading about, uh, uh, eating and stuff like that, I was eating, uh, uh, pasta before, uh, before a fight. Most of my fight I eat, like, a fettu- fettuccine Alfredo. Like, and...

Joe Rogan 8:59 That's a lot of carbs. I mean, it seems like not a bad idea.

Georges St-Pierre 9:01 Yeah, yeah, but, I mean, it's, it's not bad, but, uh, if you eat, if you t- talk to a, for example, a nutritionist, he will be like, "Oh, my god." He will grab his head. He will be like, "Are you serious? Oh, my god."

Joe Rogan 9:09 Mike Tyson used to eat that.

Georges St-Pierre 9:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:10 He used to eat a steak and pasta before his fights.

Georges St-Pierre 9:13 That, that was my thing. I, I used to eat pasta all the time and-

Joe Rogan 9:15 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 9:15 ... uh, there's no- no problem with that for me and I felt great. But since I, I start reading about, uh, uh, nutrition and stuff like that-

Joe Rogan 9:24 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 9:24 ... it's like, "Oh, you need to eat clean," nah, nah, nah. I'm like, it never affect me. I don't think it has that much of a big, big effect, you know? It's more psychological, I think.

Joe Rogan 9:33 Well, it's also you think about how much energy you're burning. You know, I think for the average person, a bowl of pasta is not a good idea.

Georges St-Pierre 9:39 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:39 But for an athlete that's about to fight five five-minute rounds against a world-class fighter, you, you have different energy requirements. You know, you have different nutrition requirements. You can burn off way more fuel. You know, like, I was listening to Chad Mendes on a podcast the other day, and he was talking about how he's so hungry, he eats so much that he has to... Wakes up in the middle of the night and he goes and eats sometimes.

Georges St-Pierre 10:01 Wow.

Joe Rogan 10:02 He just can't, he can't go a couple of hours without eating. He just has this crazy metabolism.

Georges St-Pierre 10:06 Y- you know what? Since I discover time-restric- restricted eating and intermittent fasting, now I feel better by, uh, training with an empty stomach.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 10:15 I feel sharper up here.

Joe Rogan 10:17 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 10:17 I feel more creative, especially in, in jujitsu. I feel better. I feel lighter on my feet.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Really?

Georges St-Pierre 10:24 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 10:24 So, like, you do, like, first jujitsu class in the morning, no, no food in your stomach?

Georges St-Pierre 10:27 I never have a food. I haven't eat today. This, th- the coffee you give me is the first thing I have.

Joe Rogan 10:32 So when will you eat? It's 12:24 right now.

Georges St-Pierre 10:34 Well, after this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go train with Freddie Roach, and then I'm gonna eat.

Joe Rogan 10:38 And then you'll eat.

Georges St-Pierre 10:39 Then I'll eat.

Joe Rogan 10:39 Wow.

Georges St-Pierre 10:40 And maybe I'll eat another time. I, I, I'm a late eater. That's one thing.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Interesting.

Georges St-Pierre 10:44 I'm not too good... I, I don't like to eat too much early during the day.

Joe Rogan 10:47 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 10:48 I'm not really hungry. I used to eat because everybody eat, but now I'm like, "I'm not gonna eat." Since I, I've, I've discovered this. I don't eat when I, when I'm not hungry. And the thing is, why people eat is because their spike of insulin, you know?

Joe Rogan 11:02 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:02 So when you... Like, when I start doing intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating, it was hard in the beginning because I was conditioned to eat all the time-

Joe Rogan 11:12 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:12 ... but my body acclimate to it.

Joe Rogan 11:14 (coughs)

Georges St-Pierre 11:14 And now it's very easy. I can eat once a day, it's no problem, like, right now, you know? I c- I could do it. And I think it's good to be hungry in a way. And I, I remember the doctor said something to me, he said, "Would you rather be like a, uh, uh, a lion that just, uh, had a full belly or a- an angry lion?" I'm like, "As a fighter-

Joe Rogan 11:35 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:35 ... I'd rather be like a hungry lion." And it makes sense to me. If you look at nature, it makes sense. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 11:41 It does make sense, especially when you do time-restricted eating, your, your body gets used to burning off fat, too, and using fat as fuel.

Georges St-Pierre 11:48 It's true. It's true.

Joe Rogan 11:49 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:49 That- that's why I think when I did the test to compare my, um, my fat percentage diminish.

Joe Rogan 11:55 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:55 You know, I don't have much-

Joe Rogan 11:56 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 11:56 ... fat, but it diminish. And the doctor I met, uh, he's- I says to him, I say, "Yeah, I gained a lot of weight." He said, "You, don't you think I'm gonna lose muscle?" He says to me, he believed that the way that I put on... Because now I'm about one- 100...... 85 pound. And I, when I trained for Bisping, I went up to 197 when I- after- after the weigh-in, I was- I couldn't put back that weight up, so I was at 190. He believed that the extra weight that I added was more water retention a- and residual-

Joe Rogan 12:27 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 12:27 ... inside my- my body. It was not like a-

Joe Rogan 12:30 Oh.

Georges St-Pierre 12:30 ... solid mass. And it makes sense to me because now I feel much better and I'm just as strong and even stronger. Like, when-

Joe Rogan 12:37 (coughs)

Georges St-Pierre 12:37 ... I do Olympic lifting, much stronger. On gymnastic, much stronger. Like I- I feel sharper.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Yeah, and you said it reduced your inflammation as well.

Georges St-Pierre 12:45 It does. I have a sometimes w- elbows-

Joe Rogan 12:48 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 12:48 ... you know, like problems?

Joe Rogan 12:49 You used to- you used to have always that big inflated elbow.

Georges St-Pierre 12:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Like a swollen elbow. What was that?

Georges St-Pierre 12:54 It was a- a- um- a-

Joe Rogan 12:56 Bursitis or something?

Georges St-Pierre 12:57 ... bursi- it was a bursitis.

Joe Rogan 12:58 Bursa sac?

Georges St-Pierre 12:59 That was during my fight of Thiago Alves but, uh, I got a- I get a surgery to, uh, take away the- the residual, the- the bone chip inside my elbow.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Oh, okay. Is that from landing elbows or from getting chipped?

Georges St-Pierre 13:09 I think it's just use, uses.

Joe Rogan 13:12 Just using it?

Georges St-Pierre 13:12 But now I- I don't have any problem anymore. I don't feel any-

Joe Rogan 13:16 Hm.

Georges St-Pierre 13:16 Like, it used to be- be a chronic thing that I used to feel some- once in a while.

Joe Rogan 13:20 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 13:20 Sometimes i- it came and it goes. But since I start this, it didn't come at all. I feel great. I can touch my- (laughs) my two shoulder like this, no problem.

Joe Rogan 13:28 No, when you came back, it's very interesting because with a lot of people, they take time off and then they come back and you- you wonder what they're going to look like. But one of the things that I was very hopeful with you is that you've always been almost a martial artist first and a fighter second in- in that you're always learning and you're always practicing. Like, you- you would always take time in between camps and you would, you know, do jujitsu and Brazil or you would be constantly practicing your Muay Thai. You're always trying to learn and improve your game. And I was thinking when you came back, I was like, if you were saying that you were better than ever, I'm like, "Man, he might be better than ever." Like, you-

Georges St-Pierre 14:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 ... you were the one guy that I believed. 'Cause a lot of times guys come back and you're like, "Man, he's been out of the game a long time. Who knows how hard he's been training." Because a lo- a lot of fighters when they're not in camp, when they're not preparing for a fight, they don't- they don't like to train that much.

Georges St-Pierre 14:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:22 Because they- they- the- the- the grind of camp almost wears... And I'm like, you know how you see a lot of fighters after they retire, they get really fat?

Georges St-Pierre 14:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:30 And you're like, "Wow, how could he get fat?" Like, I was looking at Maidana the other day. There's a picture of, um, Maidana's, um, uh, Chino Maidana. He's got a- an Instagram page. He's fat as fuck.

Georges St-Pierre 14:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:40 He's got a cigar, he's drinking a whiskey. I mean, he just fought Floyd Mayweather a couple years ago-

Georges St-Pierre 14:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:45 ... and he was ripped and...

Georges St-Pierre 14:46 It is-

Joe Rogan 14:47 They just, they retire and they don't give a fuck anymore. They're like, "I don't wanna do this anymore." But you, I knew you were still training 'cause I would see like in Renzo Gracie, th- the guys who were training with you there, and I knew you were training with Danaher. I knew you were constantly training and you looked good. So it was like-

Georges St-Pierre 15:03 The- a- when I left off, like, more than four years ago, I- I- I, uh, I knew I wanted to come back, uh, because I was not in a happy place. I had a lot of personal, uh, problems. And I should have even stopped earlier than- after my fight with Hendricks. If- if I would have stopped earlier, I would have maybe come back earlier as well.

Joe Rogan 15:22 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 15:23 Uh, it was- I was- I felt like I was, like, kind of a feeling of a clus- claustrophobic feeling, you know? Like, I was-

Joe Rogan 15:32 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 15:32 ... I couldn't breathe well, I couldn't sleep well. I- my mind-

Joe Rogan 15:35 Too much pressure?

Georges St-Pierre 15:36 I- I... Too much pressure, personal problems, so much stuff. A lot of stuff happened to me that it's still too early in my life and for the respect of some people I know, I couldn't talk about it. One day I will. S- all mixed together, I knew it was a drug issue in the sport. I- I feel- I felt... I didn't feel well and, uh, I was trying to perform under the- those condition and it was catching up to me.

Joe Rogan 16:00 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 16:00 And, um, I did it. But the reason why I think I didn't lose the edge is a lot of people, because we do a- an extreme sport. It's like what we do is kind of a life and death situation. It's not because there's a referee, but the spirit is the same as a gladi- gladiator or, uh, a person in a war that goes to war, he thinks he's gonna die. It's the same spirit. Even though it's not the same thing, we go there in the same spirit that we're ready to give it our- give it all. It's such an extreme feeling that once you don't have that in your life, life kind of become boring.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 16:38 You feel like you're not alive anymore.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 16:40 So that's why when people stop, they retire and they try to come back, a lot of the people, they fall into drugs because they wanna catch up to that. They wanna feel alive again, so they want- they need that sensation-

Joe Rogan 16:52 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 16:52 ... that they had previously but they couldn't get it back un- unless they do drugs or they do something crazy extravagant. The thing with me is I knew I was going to come back, uh, and also I always liked to train and keep myself in shape and- and I never did drugs. You know? Like, I never did hard drugs. I drink. I'm not... I drink sometimes. For my birthday last Saturday, I went out and I was completely wasted, okay? It is what it is.

Joe Rogan 17:19 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 17:19 I like to deteriorate myself sometime. I'm not perfect.

Joe Rogan 17:22 Just have a little fun.

Georges St-Pierre 17:22 Exactly. And I... What's the goal of doing this if you're not enjoying your life?

Joe Rogan 17:27 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 17:27 What's the goal of it?

Joe Rogan 17:28 Right. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 17:28 You know people who fight? They say, "No, I don't like to fight." And that is another thing I like to talk to- to you about. People say, "Why you do that if- if you don't like to fight?" It's like, because I like my lifestyle, you know, that it gives me. But that's why people, I believe, if you come back to what you- you say, that's why I think people, they have a hard time to come back after so many years because they fall into that trap.

Joe Rogan 17:49 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 17:50 They need to feel alive so they- they- they find ways to f- that the- it make them feel alive but it's- they- it's-

Joe Rogan 17:57 Deteriorating.

Georges St-Pierre 17:57 ... deteriorate themselves.

Joe Rogan 17:59 Yeah. Drinking-

Georges St-Pierre 18:00 And I didn't- I didn't do that. I did not do that.

Joe Rogan 18:02 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 18:02 And I would never will hopefully. Like, I'm- it's not my thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 18:06 So when you decided to come back, how far out did you decide? Like, but you- you- you took four years off.

Georges St-Pierre 18:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:13 How many years in were you like, "I think I'm ready to come back"?

Georges St-Pierre 18:18 Uh, when I see USA- USADA and the, the drug testing program being implented-

Joe Rogan 18:24 Implemented, yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 18:27 ... im- im- implemented, then I saw a lot of, a lot of a-

Joe Rogan 18:29 A lot of people deflate.

Georges St-Pierre 18:30 Yes, a lot of people-

Joe Rogan 18:31 Did you feel vindicated?

Georges St-Pierre 18:32 Huh?

Joe Rogan 18:32 Like, d- did you feel vindicated when you saw, like, some of these people just-

Georges St-Pierre 18:36 I feel a little bit of a... I mean, it, it feel bad to wish people bad luck to get some kind of recognition, but, a- that's not what I, what I wanna do. I don't wish people bad luck. But if you cheat, you cheat, man. And they, a lot of people got caught. And finally, a lot of people in the beginning, including my own friend, they think like, I was talking to some of my own friend, they say, "Oh, you're paranoid. You become paranoid. You need to take a break. You, you're going crazy. Just retire or get out," you know? "The, the, you're paranoid." Because I was talking about it a long time before-

Joe Rogan 19:07 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 19:07 ... Hendricks and they, they, everybody was disregarding me. But then when it happened, a lot of the champion fail. And, uh, a lot of, uh, the hero in the sport, they got point out with the fingers, "Hey, he's a cheater." So now it become real. So when I saw that happen, it was, it was for me a beginning to start and now it's time to come back, you know? Because I-

Joe Rogan 19:29 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 19:30 ... I'm a guy of, of, uh... If I set something, you know, that's, uh, become gonna, I'm gonna do it. I don't wanna come back when the sport was dirty. That's one of my thing. And so when I, when I, uh, decide to come back, I had a big talk with one of my trainer, John Danaher and I, um, and Firas. They're my two main guy and they're like my friend, my brother with me. I mean, I'm, I'm undefeated with these, with these two guys, you know?

Joe Rogan 19:55 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 19:55 They, they're like with-

Joe Rogan 19:56 Well-

Georges St-Pierre 19:56 I need them when I fight.

Joe Rogan 19:58 ... that's some serious knowledge-

Georges St-Pierre 19:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... between those two men.

Georges St-Pierre 20:00 Their mix together is crazy, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 20:02 They are two different person, very different. They both have, um, um, uh, they both studied philosophy. They are very inter- interesting people for me to talk with because they have two different mentalities, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 20:18 They see the world at different ways. So I like to, to have both of their, uh, expertise. And, um, so John, John, he told me, he said, "Listen." He said, "You always have three big criticizing, criticizers when you were fighting. Just never went up, uh, of a weight class. You never... You, you, you... People says that you're kind of boring or too much cere- cerebral, technical. You, you don't wanna take unnecessary risks w- which make the fight boring. And also, you, you don't finish your opponent," you know? That was one of my big criticizing, criticizers.

Joe Rogan 20:52 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 20:52 So I decide to come back and we, we change our, um, the way I was training because the, the, the way you train reflects the way you fight. You know, people say, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm not gonna train too hard. I'm gonna do this in training, but when I, it's time to fight, I'm gonna step up." There is no step up. You're just gonna do what, what you did every day, you know? And that's-

Joe Rogan 21:12 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 21:13 So, so I decide to change a l- a few things and, uh, to correct those three things and that's what happened, you know? I'm, I'm, I'm happy it work, it worked out well, but that was my goal. I wanted to come back for something that excite me, something that was different, something that was r- unique and rare, you know? And, and, and I didn't wanna come back to do the same thing I was doing before. And that's why I decide to come back to do this, so.

Joe Rogan 21:36 Well, when you came back, first of all, you came back, you fought a very tough guy, right? You fought a big Michael Bisping at 185 pounds. But what was impressive to me is like you, you didn't look like you were gone. Like, you, uh, like right away, you, it felt like you felt right back into the groove again. You didn't look out of place. You didn't look uncomfortable. And you were showing things, especially different things with your kicking and your movement, that we hadn't seen from you before. Like, you looked like you had improved.

Georges St-Pierre 22:06 Oh, I, I, I was tested in the, in the training. Uh, like even Firas, some of the guys Firas went to tell them, like he whispers to them, he say, "If you knocked out George in sparring, I'll give you money." Or, you know, things like that.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Really?

Georges St-Pierre 22:18 Yeah, man. It's like... (laughs) He's crazy.

Joe Rogan 22:20 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 22:20 Firas is crazy. Firas is my worst enemy in training sometime-

Joe Rogan 22:23 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 22:23 ... you know? He tell that, he tell people, he say, "Hey, if you, if you beat Ge- if you hurt George, I'm gonna glorify you, you know? I'm gonna, I'm gonna-"

Joe Rogan 22:31 Wow.

Georges St-Pierre 22:32 "... I'm gonna talk about you, you know? And we're gonna be happy."

Joe Rogan 22:34 That's the opposite of what a lot of people think a training camp should be for a champion. It-

Georges St-Pierre 22:38 It depend what kind of... You know, we don't train like this every day, but for my hard sparring, I've... When I'm training for a fight, I have two days, uh... For my last training camp, I had two days that it was like hard sparring that was called, we called it shoot box fight, shoo- shoot box fighting, which we put the big gloves, the, the shin pad and it's feet to floor. Once we touch the floor, we stop and we go back up. And that was the area of expertise where Bisping was the most, uh, uh, competent, the, the striking department.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 23:11 He's good on the floor, so I, I, uh, I, I was, I was, I was bringing in a lot of good guys for sparring with me, uh, in, in, in that, uh, in that particular training. It's hard to find a, someone that is exactly like the, the guy you're gonna fight. But you can find a guy that does thing better than him in a particulars area, you know? I cannot find a, uh, a replica of Michael Bisping who's complete as much as Michael Bisping, but I can find a guy... For example, I had a, a guy f- coming from Spain, his g- his name is Cesar, he's a K1 fighter and he's big guy, he's like 205 pound and he's big and he's very, very good kickboxer. So I had him during my training camp. I flew him from Spain.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 23:52 I had a different bunch of guys that I, that I, that I was training with. And all these guys that I was training with, they are not like Michael Bisping, but in a certain area that I was training with them, it could be grappling or, or, uh, shoo- sh- uh, shoot box or different, different area, they're, uh, they could be just as good or maybe better than Michael Bisping. So that's how I do, uh, my training camp.

Joe Rogan 24:18 Y- you know, I remember when you brought w- w- uh, how do you say his last name? Sgarbossky?So did you-

Georges St-Pierre 24:24 Jean- Jean-Charles Escamboski. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:25 (laughs) Yeah. When you brought-

Georges St-Pierre 24:26 What a character.

Joe Rogan 24:27 What a character, indeed.

Georges St-Pierre 24:29 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 24:29 When you brought him to work with you on The Ultimate Fighter and he would be partying all night, drunk, and show up at the gym the next day-

Georges St-Pierre 24:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:36 ... and still fuck everybody up.

Georges St-Pierre 24:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:38 And did that-

Georges St-Pierre 24:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:40 ... so... (laughs) Did that guy influence your, this, uh-

Georges St-Pierre 24:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:44 ... your, uh, your idea about just being more relaxed in training and just not worrying about it as much?

Georges St-Pierre 24:50 Yeah, but he, he's a different, like, it, it's a total different extreme, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:55 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 24:55 Like, like, I don't believe in that extreme. But Jean- Jean-Charles, yeah. I remember the producer of the show, The Ultimate Fighter, when he was about... He was supposed to stay one week and when he was about to stay, the producer was telling me, saying, "Can we keep him for the rest of the show?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:11 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 25:11 I'm like, because it was good TV, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:13 Right, right.

Georges St-Pierre 25:13 So I'm like, "I, I don't know. I'm gonna ask him." And in the, in the same time, like, a lot of the people on my team, they were like, "Man, okay, that's enough. Now we got what, what we need."

Joe Rogan 25:22 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 25:22 And that, and I was like, "Yeah, I like him, but he's kind of a..." You know, I need to kind of babysit him at the same time, but-

Joe Rogan 25:28 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 25:29 ... it... The knowledge that this guy w- had and he, he gave us was just a, a big, a big edge, you know? And, um, but yeah, Jean-Charles is a different extreme, uh, Joe. I think there is a, a, a center line that you need to keep.

Joe Rogan 25:44 Right. (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 25:45 You know? Uh, that's what I believe. I believe in life, it's not white, it's not black, it- it's always gray.

Joe Rogan 25:51 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 25:51 There, there is middle zone for everything, I believe.

Joe Rogan 25:53 Yeah. No, I think you're right about that. So when you, when you have a camp and you set up a camp and you have Danaher and Firas, do they essentially, uh... Are they the architects of the whole camp? Do they get together and try to figure out what you're doing and when you're doing it and how... Is Firas the guy who handles, like, more of the striking aspects of it or putting the grappling and the striking together?

Georges St-Pierre 26:14 I, I, I am a little bit the head guy-

Joe Rogan 26:17 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 26:17 ... in a way, you know. I, I believe as a fighter, you need to be the head guy. You're, you're the maestro.

Joe Rogan 26:22 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 26:22 You have the people that work f- like, with you. And, and, but that you need to know how to use these people good. For instance, I, I don't know nothing about business, but I have, uh, agents that are there to negotiate fight. They, they knows number. They know a- about investment. I have one, another guy, he knows about fiscality. He's a, he's a lawyer and, uh, is good for a tax report. I don't know nothing, but I know how to get the good people to help me for that-

Joe Rogan 26:50 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 26:50 ... particular thing.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Right, right, right.

Georges St-Pierre 26:51 So Firas and John, for me, are the most competent people that I can have to help me going to fight someone because in, in... John, especially, in the, the grappling area, but J- John is not only in grappling. The difference with John and Firas that makes them very unique as trainers, they not really only trainers, they are teachers. And I would say the same thing about Freddie Roach. Same thing about Freddie Roach. They're not only trainer, they're teachers. The way I structure my, my training camp, there is like a pyramid. The first layer, the fund- the, the, the, the, the fundamental, the foundation is physical. Are you in shape? Are you, uh, has your... Your VO2 max? Are you in shape? Are you in good condition? No injuries? Athleticism, are you an athlete? Are you a good, good athlete? There's a physical layer. This is the, the wider one, that's the b- the bottom one. It's like a pyramid. Then it goes up one layer. The technical layer. Do you know what to do with your knowledge? Do you know an arm bar? Uh, defense to a triangle choke? How to counter a jab? Or how do you... So, you know, technical aspect, you know, in terms of knowledge of fighting. That's where the, the trainer comes into play also, the physical, the technical. And a lot of the trainer, they don't have the last layer, or they only have one of those or two of those, but they don't have the three layers. That's where Firas, John, and also, I would say Fr- Freddie in boxing comes into play. But in MMA especially, Firas and John. The tactical layer, which is the last one, that's what separate contenders and champion. There's a physical, the technical, and the tactical. Let's say we're equal. We're the same person. What gonna make the difference between me winning against you or you winning against me is the tactical because we're the same person. We're a, a complete replica. We're, we're a clone. The, the difference is the tactical. I will know how... Where I can take you out of your comfort zone and I can bring the fight where I'm the strongest and, and fight you to elemi- eliminate the odds where the, the, the fight will, will s- will, will stoke the odds of me winning to my advantage. That's where John and Firas are master at this, and Freddie Roach is master at this in boxing. That's why I'm so... I feel very, uh, very lucky to have these guy on, on, uh, with me in, in, in my corner because they, they, they, they're competent in these three layers: physical, technic- technical, and tactical, which most trainer can have only one, two, or ma- they, they not have three. It's very rare to find three tr- the- those, the co- trainer who can do th- these three thing.

Joe Rogan 29:44 So when you get to the tactical layer, is this something that you all agree on? Do you discuss it?

Georges St-Pierre 29:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:50 Like when you... When you're, when you're approaching a fight, like say, Michael Bisping.

Georges St-Pierre 29:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:53 Like what... How does... How do you, uh, how do you do it? You say, "This is what I see in his fights," and then Firas gives his input and John gives his input and then Freddie gives his input?

Georges St-Pierre 30:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:03 And you start discussing what's the best way to handle this?

Georges St-Pierre 30:06 So, so coming into that fight with Michael Bisping, Michael Bisping was very well-prepared. He was, is very, very s- has a very good team with Jason Parillo. So we were expecting... You always have to gauge also to know you and to know your, your opponent, you know.Sometimes knowing your opponent is easier than to knowing yourself, you know. So you have to be reali- realistic about your strength and, and weaknesses and how you're gonna match up against your, your opponent. With Michael Bisping, what mess- messed me up a little bit is... and, and all of us, is we were expecting Michael Bisping to come straight at, straight at me, try to, (slaps hands) to take me out right away. Instead of that, he was moving, especially more in the second round. So the first round was... I was doing well, but in the second round, he start moving away and be more d- d... uh... instead of coming at me was more trying to running away from me. And that's why a lot of people they said to me, "Man, the, the... y- y-" be- because I lost the second round against Michael Bisping. And people was like, "Man, what happened to you? You were... Y- y- y- it seems like you, you were... you slowed down a little bit." It's not only that I slowed down, it's also I... yeah, I got hit with a very strong right hand, right on the bottom, by a guy who maybe outweigh me b- 20 pounds, you know. So it slows a man down. It's not, uh, that my cardio was bad. It's not... uh... I wa-... uh... my cardio was fine, but we get punched on the bottom, it slow a man down and he caught me off guard. He changed his strategy from round one to round two. He became more like... he was more like a runner instead of a hunter-

Joe Rogan 31:43 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 31:43 ... kind of guy.

Joe Rogan 31:44 And so he caught you with a counter shot?

Georges St-Pierre 31:46 What he did is very smart.

Joe Rogan 31:47 (clears throat)

Georges St-Pierre 31:47 He couldn't get to me. If you look at the replay of that fight with Michael Bisping, he couldn't get to me, straight to my head. It was... he's trying to hit me with his jab, with his strike, try to target my head and... but I was too fast for him. So I don't know if it's his trainer or him who decide to change, so he decide to be like, like a runner. So I decide to try to chase him a little bit more. And what happened to me, he jab my, my lead hand which square me-

Joe Rogan 32:14 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 32:14 ... and then he, he connect me straight on the, on the chin. What... uh... in the same time I was trying to, to throw a, a leg kick. So it was a perfect timing, beautiful exicu- execution and, and I don't know if he practiced that, but it was very well done. Very smart. Instead of trying to target my head, he, he, he jab my, my, my hand (slaps hands) and hit me with the, the, the, the rear hand. And that's why it hurt me. He, he hurt me. I tried to put a poker face on, on during that fight, but it hurt me. It's one of the strike that hurt me the most. Even though Michael Bisping is not known as a knockout guy, this, this, this shot really hurt me because the, the precision was... the timing was good.

Joe Rogan 32:48 Yeah. I've never understood why people don't think he hits hard. I mean, look what he did to Brock Hold.

Georges St-Pierre 32:51 Nah.

Joe Rogan 32:52 He, he hits fucking hard.

Georges St-Pierre 32:53 It... it... I think it's... what hurts someone in a fight... I mean, what can put away someone is not necessarily the power, but it's more precision and timing. And that particular, uh, right hand was perfectly timed and with great precision. So that's why I got hurt. And he win the second round. Then I had to make adjustment for the third round. That's when Fer... uh, Freddie, John and, and, uh, Firas come into play. They were... they, they saw what he was doing and they say... after the, the right hand, just slip and come with the hook over the top and th- the r- the, the right hand and that's what I did. And then he knock him down and, and... but in, in a fight, whatever your trainer tells you, if you didn't practice it, it's, it's not gonna work. I mean, it... you don't have time to think. It's, it's a-

Joe Rogan 33:39 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 33:39 ... autopilot.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 33:41 So I was on autopilot. Sometimes you just need some, some kind of guidance that put you back, your... ex-... that put your autopilot in the right direction. And that's what happened-

Joe Rogan 33:50 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 33:50 ... in that fight.

Joe Rogan 33:51 A reminder.

Georges St-Pierre 33:52 Yes, a little reminder. "Hey, uh, we're not going this way, we're going this way." Okay. Ch- ... then you, you... then it's still the autopilot, but it's different direction.

Joe Rogan 34:02 The crazy thing about Mike is that he, he has very poor vision in his right eye. Uh, a lot of people, uh, might, might not know about it, but in the Vitor Belfort fight, he damaged his retina very badly.

Georges St-Pierre 34:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:15 He's had several surgeries and he's got oil in his eye that's sort of like protecting it. And he'll have it fixed once he's done fighting. But, you know, if you look at him, one of his eyes is darker than the other eye.

Georges St-Pierre 34:27 It's true.

Joe Rogan 34:28 And that's that right eye. And did you particularly target things going to that right side, like things off of your left side?

Georges St-Pierre 34:35 Yeah. It's a lot of thing that we drilled on, uh, with the left hook. That's why, like, when I, when I hit him with the left hook, that was-

Joe Rogan 34:42 'Cause you felt he would-

Georges St-Pierre 34:42 ... a lot of-

Joe Rogan 34:43 ... have a harder time seeing things coming out of... his-

Georges St-Pierre 34:46 He-

Joe Rogan 34:46 ... vision was more blurry.

Georges St-Pierre 34:47 He does, but the thing is, with Michael, is he adjust himself very well to this. You know, like, like, it's like a... he knows it and probably knows it himself, but the way he fights, h- h- he adjusted very well, you know. He put himself in a position that he cannot get hit often with this, you know. Especially in-

Joe Rogan 35:04 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 35:04 ... in my fight. So I needed almost to wait for him to commit with the right hand to come over the top.

Joe Rogan 35:09 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 35:09 And if you look at the fight with Kelvin Gastelum, it's the same thing. He, he missed with the right hand and then he get countered. It's always-

Joe Rogan 35:14 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 35:14 ... when he miss with the right hand that he got countered-

Joe Rogan 35:17 The Kelvin fight, I think, was a mistake.

Georges St-Pierre 35:19 It was a mistake because he was not prepared for this. He didn't-

Joe Rogan 35:22 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 35:23 Well, it's also, he just got off of a crazy fight with you.

Joe Rogan 35:26 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 35:26 It was bad. I think it was a bad mistake for him as part... but, but l- look, to his credit, he tried to do something and that I do... try to do all the time. He tried to do something unique and very special. And if he would have win, we would not have this discussion.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 35:42 We would have been... we would be saying like, "Man, what a comeback. It's unbelievable."

Joe Rogan 35:46 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 35:47 "He lose a title, come back straight to fight Kelvin Gastelum. What's amazing."

Joe Rogan 35:51 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 35:51 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 35:52 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 35:52 He took a risk, man, and I can't blame him for that. I took a risk myself too. It's just sometimes you roll the dice, you know, and you es-... expect things to go your way and it didn't go his way.

Joe Rogan 36:03 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 36:04 I felt bad, but it is what it is.

Joe Rogan 36:06 Well, even he said that when he came out to that fight, the Kelvin Gastelum fight, he just didn't feel like he ha-... he just didn't feel there. He just felt off.

Georges St-Pierre 36:12 Of course he didn't feel there because he didn't have the time to prepare for this.

Joe Rogan 36:16 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 36:16 Like I said-

Joe Rogan 36:17 But he did the rock- Brock Hold fight too.

Georges St-Pierre 36:18 You're not, you're not gonna go into a fight and, and, and, and improvise everything. You, you, you're gonna do the same thing you've been doing in training. What he been doing in training, he didn't have enough time to prepare for that particular type of body-

Joe Rogan 36:28 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 36:28 ... that particular type of, of, uh, like I said, physical-... technical and tactical, which is the most important one. He didn't have the tac- the, the, the tactical preparation. Physical was not pre- pre- probably 100%-

Joe Rogan 36:43 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 36:43 ... as well. And the technical is there because it's his brain, but, you know, he, he, he, it's like he didn't program his autopilot to react to a certain situation that Kelvin would give him. It was, he's a lefty, shorter, stockier, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:57 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 36:58 A different style than me, completely different.

Joe Rogan 37:00 But he-

Georges St-Pierre 37:00 It's like you couldn't have a different emote- emo- most different style than me.

Joe Rogan 37:04 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 37:04 Than, than this guy.

Joe Rogan 37:06 But he won the title that way. He won the title on 11 days' notice.

Georges St-Pierre 37:10 I agree.

Joe Rogan 37:10 It's like an- it's like, it, it worked for him in the past. He was-

Georges St-Pierre 37:14 It worked for- it worked for him in the past, but he didn't get knocked down or choked out before he fight, uh, Rockhold.

Joe Rogan 37:20 Right. That's the thing. Yeah, sure.

Georges St-Pierre 37:20 That messed up your recuperation too, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 37:23 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 37:23 He was fresh probably.

Joe Rogan 37:24 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 37:24 I don't know. Maybe he wasn't. I don't, I don't know personally what, what he was doing. But you know, he's jacked-

Joe Rogan 37:29 How many weeks later was it?

Georges St-Pierre 37:31 He was not, like, maybe not even a month or something like it.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Yeah, something like that.

Georges St-Pierre 37:35 He, he, he was not... He would not have been cleared to fight if it would have been in America. I don't think he would have been c- cleared to fight.

Joe Rogan 37:41 Really?

Georges St-Pierre 37:41 I, I think he would not have been c- cleared to fight. I think he was suspended, I think.

Joe Rogan 37:45 I don't think so. Because they- they-

Georges St-Pierre 37:47 I, I think so. I, I think they, they, because it was in China is the different maybe the-

Joe Rogan 37:52 Three weeks? Wow. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 37:53 Three weeks. Yeah, man. You, you-

Joe Rogan 37:55 Yeah. Yeah, that seems pretty close.

Georges St-Pierre 37:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:57 Yeah, because you hurt him with that left hook and then you choked him unconscious.

Georges St-Pierre 38:00 If it would be me, me, like maybe I don't... I'm not as courageous as Michael Bisping, I would not, not take the fight. Even me, if I win the fight with Michael Bisping, I would not take the fight.

Joe Rogan 38:08 Is that the word though? Courageous? You're pretty courageous guy.

Georges St-Pierre 38:11 No, no, courageous-

Joe Rogan 38:11 Is it courageous or is it tactical?

Georges St-Pierre 38:13 Yeah, tactical. I, I would not, I would not have taken that risk.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 38:15 That risk. But it's, it's... I'm not in his shoes. I don't know-

Joe Rogan 38:18 Right, right, right.

Georges St-Pierre 38:19 ... his environment. Maybe he would have, you know-

Joe Rogan 38:21 That toughness has paid off for him though. I mean, he's one of the toughest fucking guys in the sport. He always has been and that toughness is the reason why he's like, "Fuck it, I'll fight again."

Georges St-Pierre 38:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:31 You know, "Let's do it." He's just a fucking animal.

Georges St-Pierre 38:33 He is a, he's a great example of hard work and-

Joe Rogan 38:38 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 38:39 ... perseverance and, and, and, you know, like when you say, like, everything is possible, it, it is.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 38:45 It's, it's an unbelievable, an unbelievable, uh, fighter, this guy, you know?

Joe Rogan 38:49 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 38:50 And, uh, is courageous and, and what I like about him too, he, he stand for the same thing, uh, that I stand for, for against performance-enhancing drug. And I think it's, it's very important for me and, and for me, it was like an honor to fighting him. It was like, uh, a lot of guy he lost to, this guy that, that had been caught on performance-enhancing drugs.

Joe Rogan 39:10 Yep.

Georges St-Pierre 39:10 And, and, uh, he's very open. He talks about it all the time. And, and, uh, you know, he's... I think he's great, great model for the sport.

Joe Rogan 39:17 Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. And a great model for just an example of how you can achieve great things if you work hard.

Georges St-Pierre 39:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:25 And that's what he's done.

Georges St-Pierre 39:26 He's, he's one of the guy that, like, I hate him when I was in training camp, but I loved him as well at the same, same time. I remember at one point, at one point, we're in a conference in Toronto and (laughs) that is a hilarious story. After the conference, we go by the back, kind of the back door of a mall and, uh, there's like... I don't know if it's a, it was staged or not. I, I mean, I'm not aware if it was staged. I was not aware of it. So there's a camera, like I think it was TMZ or something. It was a camera that follow us. So there is kids following us to, they're about to ask us, they ask me to take pictures. And then, and then I see a camera coming towards me and then I see Michael, that's after the, the, the conference. And Michael, he says to me, he's like, "Don't you effing put your hand on me again because na-na-na-na-na." Then I look in his face and I'm like, "What?" I was like, "You don't put your hand." And then he cre- created kind of a buzz for the fight and, and we start to, to shout at each other and then kind of almost push each other and Jason Peralta come, "Boys, leave it for the fight, boys." Then, then, uh, so but it's, it's not staged. It's true now. Right. And I'm like, "Man, what the hell he's doing there?" But then after I realized it go, it was on TMZ (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 40:43 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 40:43 There were a camera there. Then the kids that, that... who came to ask me for an autograph, they can, they came, they kind of get, um, intimidating. They were like, "Eh."

Joe Rogan 40:53 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 40:53 They went back. I'm like, then I turned around and say, "It's okay. It's finished now. You can come and go." "Eh." They get... When they went back to their parent, I'm like, "Oh God, but it is what it is, you know?" But it, that was probably the best promotion of the whole fight, like that particular s- incident. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 41:09 Do you think-

Georges St-Pierre 41:09 So I hate him and I love him the same way. Michael is kind of a guy that he's, he's a pro at, at boosting the an- anticipation for a fight.

Joe Rogan 41:19 Hype. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 41:20 You wanna hate him, but you kind of love him in the same way for the, the human being that he is, you know.

Joe Rogan 41:26 No, he's great at talking shit, for sure.

Georges St-Pierre 41:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:28 That is a, that is a big thing these days. I mean, especially after Conor.

Georges St-Pierre 41:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:32 You know, Conor McGregor has kind of changed the sport in a lot of ways in that there, that shit talking is, is a huge factor now.

Georges St-Pierre 41:39 It, it is, but, but sometimes you don't know when it's real and when it's not because I'm, I'm not... it's not part of my personality. And same thing at, at the ES- ESPN in Boston, same thing, we do an interview, we go back and forth, blah, blah, blah, blah, kind of a almost insulting each other so to speak. Then the UFC does everything to separate us from one of each other like... I'm like, I don't know if it's real or not. I don't even know if he's trying to push me. I'm gonna push him back-

Joe Rogan 42:05 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 42:05 ... because I feel, I feel threatening.

Joe Rogan 42:06 So you don't know if it's hype or if he's really-

Georges St-Pierre 42:08 I don't, I don't know myself.

Joe Rogan 42:09 ... ready to fight.

Georges St-Pierre 42:10 Yeah. Because I'm not an instigator.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 42:11 I don't like confrontation, but it is what it is. So I go to the bathroom in between, who comes next to the bathroom with, with us? It's Michael Bisping. That then is the camera that follow us in the bathroom.

Joe Rogan 42:24 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 42:24 We're, we're taking a piss ne- next to each other. We're like this. Then I turn around and see Michael Bisping and I'm like, "Holy shit." Then the camera... Then he tell the camera to, to eff out. He's like, "Get out." Then the camera goes out. Then he look at me looking at... then he start laughing. Then I, then I start laughing.

Joe Rogan 42:39 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 42:40 Then, then, then I told him, I say, "Hey, you get a Range Rover?" He's like, "Yeah."But now he's in the garage. I'm like, "Yes," say, "you need to get rid of it because after a while it, it start breaking down." He's like, "Yeah, I know." He's, "Okay, game face, see you later."

Joe Rogan 42:55 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 42:56 (laughs) How do you wanna hate-

Joe Rogan 42:58 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 42:58 ... a guy like this, you know what I mean? I want-

Joe Rogan 43:00 That's hilarious.

Georges St-Pierre 43:01 But I hate him because when we, we insult each other we-

Joe Rogan 43:04 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 43:04 ... say real insult and real things that we think about-

Joe Rogan 43:06 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 43:07 ... each other, but in a, in a way, we have the respect.

Joe Rogan 43:10 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 43:10 So it's real, but... So that relationship that I have with Bisping was very unique.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 43:16 I didn't have the same relationship with Diaz, for example. Diaz, I, I didn't know if like, if I meet him even in the street today, maybe he hates my guts. Like, I don't know what he's gonna...

Joe Rogan 43:25 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 43:25 I don't know if he wanted to fight me or like I, I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 43:28 He might really wanna fight you. Like, he's not a hype guy.

Georges St-Pierre 43:31 No, I think he's-

Joe Rogan 43:31 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 43:31 I think he takes it personal.

Joe Rogan 43:33 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 43:33 I think he, he, he... It's, man, it's a freaking sport, man.

Joe Rogan 43:37 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 43:37 It's, it's more to life than what it is.

Joe Rogan 43:40 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 43:40 People say, "Oh, fighting is my..." No, man, fighting is not my life, man. My life is my family, man, is, is my friend, the, the people I love. This is what I do in my life. It's not my life. Fighting, if... Fighting is, is over, it's over. I turn around and do something else. You know what I mean? Like, it's what I do in my life. It's not my life. You know what I mean? It's not the end of the world, man. There's more to, to life than fighting.

Joe Rogan 44:04 Well, it's funny hearing that from you, because you would, you would expect to hear that from someone who isn't considered one of the greatest of all time. But you're considered one of the greatest of all time, so it would be very ar-... It would be very hard to argue your approach.

Georges St-Pierre 44:17 (inhales deeply)

Joe Rogan 44:18 Because it's been so successful.

Georges St-Pierre 44:19 They, they, they, they-

Joe Rogan 44:20 You know, but people think-

Georges St-Pierre 44:20 ... they got it-

Joe Rogan 44:21 ... they have to be super obsessed.

Georges St-Pierre 44:23 N- n- e- I'm super obsessed, Joe, but that's why I become crazy then I stop for four years. Then when I came back, I, I, I... some of my circuit in the brain, dz, dz, dz. Then I anal-

Joe Rogan 44:34 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 44:34 I, I start to analyze myself. I'm like, "Why I'm... Why I become crazy? Why did I stop?" Because I'm taking this stuff too seriously, man.

Joe Rogan 44:41 Ah.

Georges St-Pierre 44:41 You have to take it for what it is, you know? Like...

Joe Rogan 44:44 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 44:44 It's a world championship fight, I'm fighting... I was fighting Michael Bisping after four years people, "Oh, my god." The fight are promoted on drama.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 44:53 And like John said, John Danaar, he says, he's like, "A fight are not won on drama, are won are on mundane things that we do every day."

Joe Rogan 45:04 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 45:04 That's how fight are won.

Joe Rogan 45:06 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 45:06 How you program, program your, your, uh, your cruise, uh, uh, your, your, your, your cruise driver, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:14 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 45:14 To your, your, your autopilot to win the fight.

Joe Rogan 45:17 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 45:17 That's how you, you, you... Me, I see it, I fight like a autopilot. You know? Like, so when I fight, when I prepare myself for a fight, especially with the tactical part, I program like a computer. How I want to react against that spec- specific problem? How I'm gonna take care of that, that specific problem? The only way to program it is to do repetition, repetition, and repetition, and repetition, and repetition. It's like, uh, you said, uh, at one point, E- Eddy Bravo, he said, like, "Tie, tying, tying up your shoes."

Joe Rogan 45:47 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 45:48 Because we've been doing it so many times, you can talk to someone, the same thing.

Joe Rogan 45:51 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 45:52 When I get into a fight, I analyze again when I'm fighting and I see what pattern he does the most often. So I want to program my computer to react to that pattern that would give me the advantage into the fight. I don't know what, when that pattern would occur. But I wanna program myself that when it occur, I have an answer for it right away. I don't have to think about it. I don't think.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 46:15 I just react. And that's my problem when I used to fight and I got a lot of criticism before, I was thinking too much. Towards the end of my career, I had so much pressure, I didn't perform as well as I was earlier.

Joe Rogan 46:27 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 46:27 Especially my last fight before I, I stopped for the four years, I was thinking too much, overthinking, tu- putting too much pressure. Like you said, it's too serious. You have to take it for what it is. It's only a fight. In, uh, 10 years, you know, it's... you know, it sucks if you lose, but man, it is what it is. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 46:45 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 46:45 Don't take it for... Don't make it bigger than what it is. It's only a fight and sometime i- it's something very therapeutic that I like to do before a fight. I drive a car. I... When I fight in Vegas, for example, I drive a car. Or New York, same thing, uh, I drive a car. When I used to fight in Vegas back, uh, before my fights, I used to be very, very stressed and one of, uh, very therapeutic things I, that I like to do is drive my car around and see normal people. Then I go and-

Joe Rogan 47:14 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 47:14 ... I... Not, but... And again, I explain to you why... I drive and I see a old lady with her grocery store bag, zah. And I'm thinking, like, "She doesn't care if I win the fight Saturday or not."

Joe Rogan 47:25 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 47:25 "She's not even gonna hear about it." Right, right. Then I look, oh, it's another guy yelling to another guy because he... whatever problem, or this guy is going to the bank to pay his, his mortgage stuff. They don't care. They don't care, you know. The effect that I have on the universe is so freaking small. Nobody cares. I'm the only one putting the pressure on me.

Joe Rogan 47:47 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 47:47 Nobody gives a damn about it. So that's why they help me to perform now. That's how I... Some younger guy, they say, "Oh they... I'm nervous. How do... I heard you don't sleep well the night before." I say, "Yeah, it's true, I don't sleep well." They say, "What is your trick? How do you find a way to sleep well?" I was like, "Bah, I don't really sleep well either nowadays, eh." They say, "Well how do... But how do you feel better about it?" Like, "I just know that I'm not gonna sleep well and it's not gonna affect the outcome of the competition." It's just a normal thing. You learn how to deal with it better. You're not gonna change it.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 48:16 You just accept it.

Joe Rogan 48:18 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 48:18 That stress is your friend, man, that's gonna make you react, that's gonna be on the edge.

Joe Rogan 48:23 Have you ever slept well before a fight?

Georges St-Pierre 48:25 Never.

Joe Rogan 48:25 Never?

Georges St-Pierre 48:26 Only one time.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Which fight?

Georges St-Pierre 48:27 When I fought Matt Serra.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Matt Serra? (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 48:29 And I got knocked out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:31 (laughs) (clapping hands on legs)

Georges St-Pierre 48:33 And then after that knocked out, I got so scared that it happen again. It's the most humiliating day of my career. I was so angry. Like I said, I was, like, putting too much on myself. It, it start there. It's like...I didn't even want go to, to buy eggs at the grocery store, right? Because people, (gasp) , they say, they look, "Oh, he got knocked out," uh. Like, I thought everybody cares-

Joe Rogan 48:58 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 48:58 ... about me. Nobody cares about you.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 49:00 Nobody cares. Only a small percentage of population. Nobody gives a damn. And even if they do, what? You make a mistake, you, you zig when you should have zagged, and you get clipped. So what? Everybody make mistake. You have to take fight like it is, you know. It's a sporting event. That's why I don't take it personally. Like, when I have the problem with the Diaz, but I... No problem, man. It's a fight. It's not personal for me. You're, you're in my life now. You, you won't be there in 10 years maybe. Maybe you will. Man, who knows? It's only like a, a chunk of life that we share together, and then after, it's gone. No problem with that.

Joe Rogan 49:37 That's definitely a better attitude-

Georges St-Pierre 49:39 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 49:39 ... to look at it that way.

Georges St-Pierre 49:40 'Cause that's the way it is. That's how a athlete, they should think, you know. Uh, and that's, that knowledge that I have is with years of, years of competition, you know. All the, the problem I have, the colitis and all that, that's because of that, that, that BS that I got it. Like, putting too much on me.

Joe Rogan 49:55 You think that's what caused it?

Georges St-Pierre 49:56 It's normal, if I fight again, it wi- it wi- it will be... It will go back the same pattern. I will, I will not be... I will be very stressed, and it's normal to be stressed. But I will accept it. I accept it better now than I used to do when I was younger.

Joe Rogan 50:09 Now, after you won the title, there was thoughts of whether or not you would defend it, if you were gonna fight Robert Whittaker.

Georges St-Pierre 50:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Like, what you were gonna do. What, what caused your decision? What, what made you decide to relinquish the belt?

Georges St-Pierre 50:21 So, the reason why I relinquished the belt is I, I want to do some physical tests to see what, what, what is the problem with my health condition. Because during the, the camp, I knew I had problem, but I didn't know what it was. I knew it was... You know, the, the test, the blood test and everything for the cancer, it came negative. So, after I went to do, like, like I say, a colonoscopy, it came back that I have a c- an ulcer inside my stomach. Then I asked the doctor, I say, "How long it takes to get rid of this?" He say, "It's all your life. But the symptom, the symptom can go up, down, depending every people, whatever they do differently." Then I start researching, who's the best doctor? How can I do this? And that's when I start reading about, like, uh, the fasting and stuff. And I, and I... Then I, then I tried it, but I saw that a lot of... You know, in, in the sport of MMA, a lot of the guys are starving. They, they don't... They not hung- they not, uh, rich, you know. I'm lucky now, I have enough money for the rest of my life. I don't need to fight anymore, you know. If I don't do nothing (laughs) crazy, like buying a private airplane, and I'm not-

Joe Rogan 51:26 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 51:26 ... that kind of person, or falling into drugs and stuff. Like, I think I'm good, you know. For me, my family and everything, I thi- I think I'm good. However, uh, when I'm looking at the landscape, I see a lot of guy, like for example, Conor McGregor, he hold on to the title to, to, for the attention, the sponsors, the this and that. And a lot of people do that, that kind... They kind of stall the division. And I said to myself, I said, you know, "I stand for, for the fighters. I always did, you know, uh, publicly." I say, "Why am I gonna keep the title until to see if I feel better or not and defend it?" Because I don't even know if... My li- my weight was dropping down. It's like I, I'm not even at 185. Uh, uh, uh... I'm more I'm 170 or 155ers. I'm not... I don't have the size of a 185ers. So, I'm like, I, I, I relinquish it right away, you know. I don't wanna stall the division and make people wait-

Joe Rogan 52:20 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 52:21 ... because of me, you know. The, the world don't go around me, you know what I mean? So, uh, for the respect, I did, I did it.

Joe Rogan 52:28 That's beautiful.

Georges St-Pierre 52:28 But I didn't know before the, the fight I was going to do this. It happened like (mimics fighting sounds) like this. People was like, "Oh, yeah, you knew." No, no, you know, no I didn't. I didn't know it was going. I didn't know I was going to have a colitis and all that stuff. It, it, it came up. I never tried it before. I didn't know what would be the outcome how I would feel. I never did it, you know. It was a test in the same time, but I didn't know. You know, I have a lot of, uh... I'm not a perfect man, Joe. I have a lot of, uh, negative stuff about me. But one thing that I'm not is I, I'm not a coward. This I swear. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do. I'm not a coward, you know. In every of my fight, every of my fight I was, I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm terrified. But whatever I feel, I step and I, and I, I, I, um, I respect my contract and I do it, you know. And, um, I di- I didn't know the colitis and all that. It was- it would be illogical right now if w- if I wanna go back when I'm ready to go back 185. I'm not 185, you know.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Right, right.

Georges St-Pierre 53:26 It would be a stupid move.

Joe Rogan 53:28 And so, if you're gonna fight again, it'll be 170 or 155?

Georges St-Pierre 53:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:33 What, uh, where, where are you leaning? Are you leaning towards 55 or 70?

Georges St-Pierre 53:37 (sighs) I, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm lea-... I'm gonna... I wanna lean where... if I, uh, I want... You know, I, I've climbed the Everest many time, you know. I have climbed it once. I lose to Matt Hughes. Then I climb it, to where I lose, I, I... Then I, I, uh, then I got it, then I lose to Matt Serra, then I climb it again. Uh. I've done it, like, three time, you know. Like, I d- I di- I'm 37 years old. I just turned 37 few, few days ago. I don't have much left.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 54:08 And for what I have left, I wanna make the, the, the big fight, the fight that the fan want to see, they want to e- enjoy. Um, I also want personally, for me to achieve something that is unique, that is rare. That maybe that never been attempted before, you know. That would be something that excite me. And I'm not only driven by, by money, you know. Like, like, like, uh, like I... It's good to have money, we like money. It, it drives us all, including myself. But it's not the unique thing that drive me. It need to be s- more than money, and they need, need to be some kind of achievement, thi- that comes with it, that would exciting me.

Joe Rogan 54:49 So, what would that be? That would be 155-pound title.

Georges St-Pierre 54:52 They, they, uh, they offer me Nate Diaz now.

Joe Rogan 54:55 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 54:56 And, and, and, uh, it was, uh-There was a rumor. They said it was a done deal. It's not a done deal. Not on my part. And I don't think it was on Nate Diaz part as well, because from what I've heard, his brother, Nick, sa- and even Nate says, uh, that's his big brother's fight. It's not his fight. From N- Nick, Nate, Nate Diaz is a, is a incredible fighter, very well-rounded. However, from ... If you put yourself in my shoes, there is nothing good that can come out of it, except money. And money is not the only thing that dri- drive me. If I beat Nick Diaz, uh, N- Nate Diaz decisively, some people will say, "Oh," most people will say, "Oh, he took an easy fight," or whatever. Like, the, the, the criticism will say, will say, "Oh, he, he, uh, he's a bully." You know, like-

Joe Rogan 55:45 You fought a 155-pound guy.

Georges St-Pierre 55:46 Yeah, you fought a smaller guy that, that competed at a smaller... Maybe he's not even smaller than me. Maybe we're about the... Mo- most 50, 1, a lot of 155-er guys are bigger than me right now.

Joe Rogan 55:56 Nate's a big guy.

Georges St-Pierre 55:57 He's a big guy. He's about the same size as me, but because I compete at 170 for most of my career-

Joe Rogan 56:02 And you won the title at 185.

Georges St-Pierre 56:04 Yes, it will make me look bad. It will-

Joe Rogan 56:06 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 56:06 ... make me look like a bully. And this is if I win decisively. If I, for example, if I win not decisively, if I win like it's a war back and forth, right? People will say, "Ah, he suck. He cannot even..." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 56:17 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 56:17 And if I get beat, oh my God, forget it. For my legacy, it's the end of the world. It's-

Joe Rogan 56:21 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 56:21 All the work I put in is finished. And I could have a bad day.

Joe Rogan 56:25 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 56:26 Something that I discovered too during my career is being the strongest man in the world, that's my, that was my dream when I was young. That's why I did UFC. I wanted to be the stronger man in the world. And I realized over the year this, it did not exist. You cannot be the stronger man in the world. This is an illusion. A lot of the younger guy, they say, "Oh, I'm the baddest man." No, you're not, man. It doesn't exist. You would be strong ... You would be a better fighter than this guy in that particular day, at that particular location, at that particular moment. Maybe in an hour, if the fight would occur an hour later, an hour before, or maybe in a different place where the, the altitude is higher or lower or uh, different scenario, different environment, you will lose that fight. It's always a question of odds. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:10 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 57:11 So being the stronger man in the world, it does, it's style makes fight. Maybe we're three guys. I beat you, you beat him, he beat me. Who's the, who's the best guy? There's no best guy.

Joe Rogan 57:21 Right. That's MMA math, right?

Georges St-Pierre 57:22 It, it-

Joe Rogan 57:22 Everybody always talks about that.

Georges St-Pierre 57:23 ... it is, it is like this. That's the way to see it.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 57:25 So there is no stronger man in the world. You can't, you say, "Oh, I'm the baddest man on the planet because I'm champion." Like, the belting is, is an illusion, the belting. The belting is a symbol, but it, it's an illusion. It doesn't exist. You're not the stronger man in the world.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 57:41 I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but is, it is what it is. That's ... If you ask most experienced fighter, most people will think the same way, because we realize at one point, like, when we're young, because of our confident or maybe our, the cockiness or, or our confidence, after i- i- it... Not that it fades, but we, we, we see, we have more experience, knowledge. We realize it's all, it's all BS. It's not true.

Joe Rogan 58:05 So the UFC offered you Nate Diaz. Did you consider it at all? Or d- was it like immediately?

Georges St-Pierre 58:10 I consider it. I consider it. However, I, I, I, I, I, and I analyze it. I talk with Feras, with my, with my trainer and everybody. We were all on the same page on that. It's like it's, it's not, it's not, it's not worth it.

Joe Rogan 58:23 But did the UFC announce it? Did they say that they were working on it? What did they say?

Georges St-Pierre 58:26 I think, I think they announced it. I'm not sure. I, I think they said it was a done deal. Look, it's not the first time it happened and-

Joe Rogan 58:32 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 58:32 ... and I, I'm not... They have a business to run, the UFC. And their, their biggest fear is someone take the title and run with it, with it.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 58:42 And it's been, I've been doing it two times-

Joe Rogan 58:44 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 58:44 ... with Johnny Hendricks (laughs) and with, uh, Michael Bisping.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 58:49 Like, I run. They say I run, but it's for reasons, you know.

Joe Rogan 58:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 58:52 There's always a reasons. And, and that's their biggest fear.

Joe Rogan 58:57 Sure.

Georges St-Pierre 58:57 So that, that... And I understand that. They have a business to run, and s- but it's, it's like the old WWE when Ge- Andre The Giant pass the torch to Hulk Hogan.

Joe Rogan 59:09 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 59:09 He passed the torch because it's for the business-

Joe Rogan 59:13 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 59:13 ... and he agreed to pass the torch.

Joe Rogan 59:14 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 59:15 But the thing in this, in this, in this part, we're not in WWE.

Joe Rogan 59:20 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 59:20 It's my life on the line here.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 59:22 I don't care about the business. I do what is the best for my interest to me.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Sure, you have to.

Georges St-Pierre 59:28 I have to. I have to be-

Joe Rogan 59:29 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 59:29 ... selfish. And I am selfish. I, I say it openly. I am, I say it to the fan, to every... I, I am selfish because it's a, it's a sport that I can die, man. You can die in this sport and this is the truth. Can get, or, or not, maybe not die, but it could create, create at your death in the next time to come, in the next year, maybe you get a blow that messed up something in your brain because of a trauma that created something else. So it's a very serious sport, man. It's, it's not like a... You play hockey, play baseball, play football, you don't play fighting. So you do it for yourself. You do what is best for yourself. The organization will do what is best for the organization.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:09 They're not your friend.

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:11 So that's why the relation I have with Dana and some of the guy in UFC, it's a very special relationship. Maybe one day we'll sit down and we'll talk about the good old days and, and have a blast-

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:20 ... have a laugh. But right now, we, we, I always, I'm always on the defensive.

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 While you're fighting.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:25 When my phone ring, I see Dana White, it's like, "Goddamn." I'm like...

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:29 Then I say, "What I should say? What I should not say?" Nah, nah, nah, nah. And I'm completely honest about it. It's like some fighters say, "No, man. I just... Eh." It's like, if you do that, it's because you're an idiot if you do that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 If you just take any fight they give you.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:42 Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll fight... Nah. I mean, it doesn't work like that. It's ni-

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:45 The ascension to be champion is not a straight line. It's this, oh, it's an obstacle there, you know. Wait, oh, then you come back there.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:52 It's it, it is what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:54 It is what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:00:55 And you need to be surrounded by smart people. And if you don't have smart people, you need to be smart enough to find those people that are competent that will help you in particular domain that you're not competent, to make the job for you and complete your circle, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Yeah. Dana was saying for a while that you didn't want to fight.

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:12 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 He was saying, "George doesn't want to fight." He's just saying he wants to fight-

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:14 Yeah, he say, he said before I didn't want to fight before I fought Bisping, you know. He say, he said a lot of things.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Yeah. Why, why do you think he was saying that? Do you think he was putting pressure on you psychologically?

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Like, fucking with your head?

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:22 Yeah. So I'm, so-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:24 ... my ego will make me, "Yeah, okay. I'll show you that I can fight. Bring me this guy. Uh."

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Right, right. Yeah, that's the... (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:31 That's the way it is, man. It's a freaking game.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:32 It's all a game. We say it's not a game, it's real. No, it's all a game.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:36 It's all business, it's all a game.

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 Who- what?

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:39 I li- I like Dana. Dana, man ... The sport was nowhere.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Yeah?

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:44 The sport was gone, man. It didn't go nowhere. Because of Dana, we owe Dana my living, I owe it to Dana White.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 When I do the UFC weigh-ins, when I introduce everybody, I point to him, I say, "Dana White. Without him, none of this would be possible."

Georges St-Pierre 1:01:58 And you're right, 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 100%

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:00 He's the best pound for pound promoter-

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Ever, of all time.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:04 ... of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 Of all time.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:04 I don't care about Don King, whoever you ... Dana White is the best.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 He's better than all of them.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:09 All sport included, I never seen anything like this.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Yep.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:12 He can sell ice to an Eskimo if he want to.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:15 He's incredibly good.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 And he's fun.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:17 And he's good at messing-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:19 ... up with my head, too.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:20 Because even though I tr- I ... Sometimes my ego is like, "Mm, ah, mm!" Like, Nate, Nate Diaz, because the stuff she said too, and the way they try ... I don't know if the UFC tried to make him say stuff, because some fighters are more like pawned on a chess, on a check- ch- chessboard than others. Me, I'm not ... I don't follow when ... Everything analyze, I'm thinking. I was like, "Why he say that? Why? Okay, that's because..." So a lot of stuff had been said, and my ego somehow like, "Man, if what ... And I, and I want to say, 'All right, you think my sch- my schedule is too busy? I'll take that fight and I kick your ass."

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:53 You know what I mean? But I should not do that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 (sighs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:55 It's a stupid move.

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 Right.

Georges St-Pierre 1:02:57 If I start acting like this, I'm broom.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:00 And a lot of guy, they don't have that self-control and self-discipline in them.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:04 It's all a game, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:06 It's all a game. People say it's not ... It's all ... It's BS. It's all a game, man. It's all a game.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 What did Nate say that fucked with you?

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:14 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:15 Nate Diaz and, and Na- Nick is like kind of together in a way, they say that I took steroid when I fought his brother. Uh, so I, I messed up m- my glove, my, my wrap. Um, I didn't make weight. And, uh, what did he say? Oh yeah, I put something in the, in the IV of his brother. So he said if I wanna take care of that, like if ... I don't know, he said it in his own like word like in an- English slang, like, "Oh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:41 ... if you wanna take care of this, I'm there." You know, kind of-

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 But he said someone poisoned him recently.

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 Who was ... Was that ... For which fight was that? Was that Anderson Silva, or no?

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:49 Okay, I gotta confess, Joe. I gotta confess. I gotta confess.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Okay.

Georges St-Pierre 1:03:56 I was, I was so scared during this, this fight, so we tried to poison ... I was so scared of fighting Nick Diaz, so we poisoned his IV.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:06 But he survived.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:08 So I was even more terrified, you know? So all the athletic commission was on my payroll, so they tricked the weigh-in and I made it.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:19 And it went through. So I was even more terrified. So the alien abduct me-

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:25 ... and put a ga- they put the ga- gamma ray to increase my strength like the Hulk, like a performance-enhancing drug.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Oh.

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:34 And the, the fight was still happening. So right before, I put some glass and cement in my gloves-

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:41 ... to make sure. And still had a crazy hard fight, you know? So I gotta confess, with Nick. Wow, but it's completely insane, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Wait, did he-

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:50 What they-

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 ... say that was for your fight? Was it-

Georges St-Pierre 1:04:52 He said all that. He s- he said, he said for my fight, that I, I, I poisoned his IV, that I was on steroid, that I ... My, my, my wrap was wrong. And, and he said also ... What did, what did he say there?

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:04 He said, yeah, the, the, the way, and like I didn't make weight. Like I, like I, I tricked the athletic commission, or they were on my ... Like, it's all like ... It's, it's just funny. It's ... I think he's, he's ... He has a, he has a problem of, uh, conspiration, conspiration.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Conspiracies. Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:22 He, he think everybody is against him, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 Mm-hmm. Paranoia.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:26 I think that's what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 That might be the weed.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:29 It could be.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Weed. It's the paranoia.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:30 They say... You know, and I don't wanna ... I don't wanna say nothing bad about weed. I think it- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 (laughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:35 But, but, but w-

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 Weed, like all things, can be good, but also can be bad.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:39 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 Food is good for you.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:41 I know you're ... I know you, I know you're, you're for the weed stuff, but, but-

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 I, I do enjoy weed. But-

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:44 And you're a smart guy. You have much better argument than the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh at, at, in our ... For, for that kind of-

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Uh, for responsible use though, of everything, including drinking, right?

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 I like a drink every now and then.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:55 But I-

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 I like, I like pot.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 But I don't think you should smoke it all day.

Georges St-Pierre 1:05:59 Yeah, but I, I think that's what it is. I think weed ... I don't know if it's the weed, but I think it's maybe weed with social environment or, or-

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:07 ... and genetic can create some kind of disord- disorder in, in the brain that make you have the conspiration- conspiracy problem.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 Yes.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:14 You think everybody is against you.

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:17 It could, could happen, man. It-

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 It could happen.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:19 I've seen a lot of my friend who smoke a lot, they have this problem.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:23 Sometimes they think they can't ... They, they paranoid.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's like all things. You do too much of it, it can fuck with your head.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:30 Everything could be good or, uh, bad-

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:32 ... depending how you use, yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 So what fight is interesting to you? This, this talk of Khabib at 155 is the champion now.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 And Conor.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:41 R-

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Those are the two fights that I hear.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:43 Right, right now, right now as we speak now, I, I wouldn't want ... Not want right now to put myself immediately in a training camp, because the reason is my symptom is not gone. I s- I-

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Your colitis?

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:54 I feel a little bit. It's not-

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 Mm-hmm.

Georges St-Pierre 1:06:55 It's, it's not as bad as it was, n- not even close. It's much better. But I wanna get rid of it before I get into a training camp-

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:07:04 ... before I g- put myself into a stress. 'Cause that stress, what it does, it amplify everything. So if you have like s- little issues, it will amplify it.

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:07:13 And at least I need to take care of that. It ... My, my health is in ... Pass in front of my performance, in sport. This is very important. And when I'm ready, like, I don't know, I may ... I would like do something, like I said, unique, rare, something that is rare that never been done before.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 That would be a 55 pound championship.

Georges St-Pierre 1:07:31 It could be 55, which is the first in MMA, in MMA to have the three title. Never been done before. Or it could be maybe, by that time, it would be another guy, maybe, I don't know-... it would be someone will come back and, and do something great that he w- he will be the man to beat, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 Right, right.

Georges St-Pierre 1:07:50 We talk about the Diaz brother and, and also I, I changed sub- subject a little bit, but with- with on the same way. It's sad for, for Nick Diaz that he doesn't fight.

Joe Rogan 1:08:02 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:08:03 Because stylistically, people might think I'm crazy, but stylistically I think he can beat Tyron Woodley. I think he can. He's the kind of guy that keep coming at you, keep coming at you, and take... He's good at taking shots, surviving that, keep coming, keep coming at you. And I remember when I fought him, it's terrifying because you got tired and this guy keep coming at you and he make you feel like you claustrophobic and you, you do things at him and he keep coming and he's very dangerous and then later round, like after like three, four rounds, like man, it's like, it's very...

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 He never gets tired.

Georges St-Pierre 1:08:36 He doesn't get tired but it, it's- it's- it make you... It's exhausting.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:08:40 Also, nervous, on the nervous system and, and the, the mental system. Not only physically, it's not only... Not, not much physically, it's- it's on the nervous system. He come at you and you fake and then you, uh... And- and there is like a reaction time and reset time when you fight, you know, like, like... And I- I- I studied this with my team when I was fighting guys and, and Nate Diaz, he make people tired. He make the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 Nick or Nate?

Georges St-Pierre 1:09:06 Nick. Nick. Nick.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 (coughs)

Georges St-Pierre 1:09:07 That's why he wins fight.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:09:09 He's kind of a slow guy but- but people got f- more tired than him quickly.

Joe Rogan 1:09:13 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:09:13 Especially in their nervous system.

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 Yeah.

Georges St-Pierre 1:09:16 There is a guy like BJ Penn, for example. When I fought BJ Penn, I knew that BJ Penn had the best reaction time of all fighter we have seen in UFC when he was at his, at his best. I measure... The guy I- we know, work w- for us, measure with- with the frame. You know a frame, like a picture when you throw a punch? Click, click, click, click. BJ Penn had the best reaction time of all fighters, B- BJ Penn, when he was at his