The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #39 with Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone
CHAPTERS
- 0:02 – 2:58
Catching up: weight class plans, UFC PI testing, and the sudden Mike Perry matchup
Joe and Cowboy open with beers and immediately jump into what brought Cerrone back on the show: a messy series of matchmaking changes while he was trying to return to 155. Cowboy recounts UFC Performance Institute testing, Dana’s concerns about the weight cut, and how the Perry fight materialized amid short-notice reshuffles.
- •Dana discourages Cowboy from dropping back to 155 due to age/weight-cut concerns
- •Cerrone goes to the UFC Performance Institute for testing and a plan to justify 155
- •Sean Shelby offers the Mike Perry fight amid opponent changes and short-notice chaos
- •Cowboy’s recent life circumstances (stitches, new baby) complicate quick turnarounds
- 2:58 – 8:19
The Jackson-Wink split: why Cowboy says he was pushed out over money and loyalty
The conversation turns to the main controversy: why Cowboy is no longer welcome at Jackson Wink despite over a decade with the team. Cerrone alleges that Winkeljohn chose to corner and keep Mike Perry (a newer gym member) because it meant getting paid, while Cowboy only paid Greg Jackson directly.
- •Cowboy describes being told he’s not welcome at the gym while Perry is supported
- •Claims the decision was financial: Perry pays Winkeljohn directly; Cowboy pays Greg only
- •Cowboy frames it as a loyalty breach after years of commitment to the camp
- •Joe emphasizes the intimacy of coach-fighter relationships and why this feels like a violation
- 8:19 – 16:51
“Puppy mill” gym culture: open-door sparring, unsafe intensity, and coaching quality complaints
Cerrone expands his critique of Jackson Wink’s current environment, saying it has shifted from elite, controlled pro training to an open, chaotic system. He argues uncontrolled sparring and inconsistent coaching hurt fighters and raise injury risk, contrasting it with boxing’s more curated sparring culture.
- •Cowboy says the gym now lets in too many unknown drop-ins, creating ‘fight’ sparring
- •Argues fighters need trusted partners late in camp, not random newcomers trying to prove themselves
- •Criticizes cookie-cutter coaching and lack of evolution in training approach
- •Mentions frequent coaching turnover and poor wrestling instruction as major problems
- 16:51 – 17:42
BMF Ranch training setup: building his own camp, needing direction, and living rural New Mexico
Cowboy explains why he created the BMF Ranch: he needed a controlled environment, better structure, and a safer training pipeline. He also describes the logistics of Greg Jackson coming out to the ranch and why Cowboy prefers rural living despite joking he’s ‘stuck’ there now.
- •BMF Ranch created as an alternative to the gym’s decline and lack of structure
- •He brings in coaches and training partners, but struggles with being both ‘general and soldier’
- •Greg Jackson sometimes trains Cowboy at the ranch; the gym is ~50 miles away
- •Cerrone discusses loving rural life, the property, and the challenges of selling it
- 17:42 – 21:48
Ranch life, wildlife talk, and the Copenhagen chew lesson
The tone lightens as they riff on living outdoors—antelope behavior, hunting, and the animals around Cowboy’s property. Cowboy also gets Rogan to try Copenhagen again, turning into a running gag about placement, spitting, and not swallowing it.
- •Discussion of wildlife near the ranch: antelope, elk, turkeys, ducks
- •Joe shares antelope evolution trivia and North American ‘cheetahs’ history
- •Cowboy introduces Copenhagen (wintergreen) and coaches Joe on using it
- •Anecdotes about how Cowboy found and bought the property with his grandparents’ help
- 21:48 – 29:12
Loyalty lessons from family and the emotional fallout from the gym situation
Cerrone reflects on how his grandparents shaped his values—especially loyalty and respect—and how that informs his reaction to Jackson Wink. He shares advice from his grandmother about not burning bridges, then admits she encouraged him to stand his ground this time.
- •Grandparents’ support stories (cash offer for the house, encouragement)
- •Grandmother’s guidance: act logically vs. out of anger; don’t corner yourself
- •Cowboy’s loyalty: still paying Greg even with minimal sessions
- •Joe explains why he chose to have Cowboy on and not the coaches
- 29:12 – 34:33
Vegas, Monster conference, and Cowboy’s surprise breakdancing battle
After a brief detour into Vegas nightlife and gambling, Cowboy tells a story from a Monster conference where he ended up breakdancing—while wearing cowboy boots—against another guy. They segue into how breakdancing athleticism translates to grappling and modern athletic evolution.
- •Cowboy wins money playing baccarat at a Monster event in Vegas
- •Monster has a breakdancing team; Cowboy gets pulled into a dance ‘battle’
- •Joe connects breakdancing strength/control to jiu-jitsu (10th Planet examples)
- •They discuss how social media accelerates skill evolution across sports
- 34:33 – 35:28
Social media negativity and why online criticism gets under Cowboy’s skin
Cerrone admits online trash talk bothers him more than it should, comparing it to confronting someone in a parking lot. Joe advises ignoring it and frames social-media cruelty as fear-driven ‘loser behavior,’ connecting it to lack of adversity and emotional fragility.
- •Cowboy says criticism ‘burns his soul’ and triggers confrontation instincts
- •Joe argues mean online behavior often comes from fear, weakness, and damage
- •They connect this to broader culture: adversity avoidance and ‘nerfed’ environments
- •Discussion of winners focusing on achievement, not tearing others down
- 35:28 – 52:48
Cowboy’s first psychedelic: Aubrey Marcus DMT ceremony and the vivid two-trip experience
Cowboy recounts his first and only DMT session, done ceremonially with music, chanting, and intention-setting. He describes intense visuals, out-of-body perspectives, and a second hit that produced a ‘sideways’ keyhole experience—leaving him wanting to do it again and leading into mushrooms.
- •Aubrey hosts a ritual-style DMT ceremony with music/chanting and intention-setting
- •Cowboy describes ‘kaleidoscope’ launch into darkness and seeing injury points glowing
- •Second trip becomes ‘sideways’ with black rainbows and a receding keyhole
- •He calls DMT his ‘gateway drug’ and says he now does mushrooms
- 52:48 – 1:03:48
Parenthood and competitiveness: raising ‘Danger’ and rejecting participation-trophy culture
The conversation pivots to Cowboy’s newborn son and his excitement to raise a tough, adventurous kid. Cerrone rails against participation ribbons and overprotective parenting, while Joe argues kids need adversity and real consequences to build resilience.
- •Cowboy describes early signs of his son’s intensity and focus
- •Strong stance against participation trophies; emphasis on competition and learning to lose
- •Joe: you can’t protect kids from bad feelings—losing helps growth
- •Plans to expose his kid early to sports, riding, water sports, and ‘crazy’ adventures
- 1:03:48 – 1:08:09
The ‘high’ of fighting and the fantasy of future medicine that erases permanent damage
Joe and Cowboy discuss the unique rush of winning fights—especially KOs—and the cycle of fear, relief, and euphoria. They imagine a future where medical tech could fully repair injuries, changing the nature of combat sports, and reference brutal armbar moments as examples.
- •Winning produces an indescribable ‘highest high’ that drives fighters back
- •Joe frames fight night as confronting fear and then ‘landing’ after the storm
- •Speculation about future tech that could fix concussions, joints, and injuries instantly
- •They reference extreme armbar footage and fighters pushing through damage
- 1:08:09 – 1:26:08
Near-death cave dive in Cozumel: panic, silt-out blackout, and finding the crack to escape
Cowboy delivers a long, detailed story about almost dying cave diving when a partner panicked and silted out the cave, eliminating visibility and threatening their exit route. He explains cave-diving protocols (thirds rule, lines, cookies) and how he fought his own panic, rationed air, and ultimately escaped by crawling along the ceiling to a crack leading out.
- •Explains cave-diving hierarchy, nitrogen rules, and why ‘Mother Nature wins’
- •Partner’s mistake causes line entanglement and massive silt-out; Cowboy initially retreats, then goes back in
- •Cowboy loses orientation and nearly runs out of air; considers writing a ‘death letter’
- •Escape strategy: invert buoyancy, crawl ceiling, follow a crack until reaching light and the exit
- 1:26:08 – 1:36:46
What’s next: Cowboy Fight Series on Fight Pass, film work with Denzel, and adrenaline hobbies (racing & mounted shooting)
After the cave story, Cerrone outlines his plans beyond fighting: launching an amateur promotion to develop talent, continuing stunt/fight choreography work in movies, and chasing new adrenaline outlets. He talks about racing the Chili Bowl with minimal practice and competing in mounted shooting with single-action revolvers firing blanks.
- •Launches ‘Cowboy Fight Series’: undercard bouts plus 4-man tournament; winner trains/lives at the ranch
- •Hopes to stream the series on UFC Fight Pass and help prospects climb the ladder
- •Movie/stunt work: Equalizer 2 with Denzel; fight choreography opportunities (Mark Wahlberg/Pete Berg projects)
- •Adrenaline pursuits: Chili Bowl dirt racing (number idea: 11 BMF) and mounted shooting competitions
- 1:36:46 – 2:35:08
Time travel, pirates, Mayans, flat-earth tangents, and dinosaur evidence debates
The show closes in classic Rogan fashion with wide-ranging speculation: which era to visit via time travel, why the present might be the best time to live, and a comedic dive into pirates, Mongols, and ancient civilizations. They riff on flat-earth arguments, conspiracy thinking, and then land on tangible dinosaur evidence like trackways near Red Rocks and fossil finds.
- •Debate: travel to the past vs future; fears of a post-human/robot future
- •Comedic pirate/Mongol hypotheticals (language barriers, tech, weapons)
- •Flat-earth claims mocked: ice wall, dome, fake rockets; why unchecked videos persuade people
- •Dinosaur talk: early fossil ‘fakery’ history vs modern evidence (trackways near Red Rocks, T-rex ranch find)
