JRE MMA Show #41 with TJ Dillashaw & Duane Ludwig

Joe Rogan 0:00 ... you let me know.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:00 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 0:01 And so...

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:01 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:02 Be like, "Okay."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:03 "All right." And then we leave it there. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 0:04 Y- yeah, I think you'd be too nervous, yeah, like you said.

Joe Rogan 0:07 Boom! And we're live. UFC motherfucking bantamweight champion, TJ Dillashaw.

TJ Dillashaw 0:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 And Duane Ludwig.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:15 How you doing, Mr. Rogan?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Master Splinter. What's up, buddy?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:17 I'm awesome.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Good to see you, man.

TJ Dillashaw 0:17 Good to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:18 Oh, I see you got golf shirts now, too. Look at you, you respectable motherfucker.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:21 Gotta step up. I'm 40 now.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 0:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:22 You gotta be respectable.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:23 Gotta step up my game.

TJ Dillashaw 0:24 People walk into my-

Joe Rogan 0:25 It's right.

TJ Dillashaw 0:25 ... dojo, and he's gotta look dressed to the nines, you know, looking like it's, uh, the job.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:28 But there's a warning sign on the wall that says, "Explicit language."

Joe Rogan 0:31 Oh. So you, you let people know, people are gonna be swearing-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:34 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:34 ... up in this bitch.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:35 Yes, sir. So line up, motherfuckers.

TJ Dillashaw 0:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:37 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:37 Let's go. Down on the mat first, though. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 0:39 Do you say that when you teach classes? Do you swear-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:41 So I get into it.

TJ Dillashaw 0:42 ... at the end of your classes?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:42 Yeah, I'm passionate.

TJ Dillashaw 0:43 Yeah. No, you are.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:44 I, uh... Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 0:44 You get fired up.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:45 I do. Yes. That's why I don't teach the kids.

Joe Rogan 0:47 Oh.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:47 We have a separate room for the kids' classes that Coach Sam Coutts runs now.

Joe Rogan 0:50 That's smart, man.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:51 That's... So you have a children's program?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 0:53 Yes, sir. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:53 Nice. Dude, I love the fact that you take regular classes. I watch you on the Instagram.

TJ Dillashaw 0:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:58 Bantamweight champion of the world.

TJ Dillashaw 1:00 Oh, yeah. That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:00 Regular, regular classes-

TJ Dillashaw 1:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 ... with regular people. I see them in there with you, like, "Holy shit."

TJ Dillashaw 1:04 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04 All star struck and weirded out going through drills.

TJ Dillashaw 1:07 Man, I love it. I l- I love... I mean, obviously h- none of his classes are regular though. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:10 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 1:10 Even if you're an average joe coming off the street, like, Duane's teaching you the same shit that I'm doing.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 1:15 You know? But, yeah, working out with a guy that's never had a real fight before, you know, I mean, he'll always remember that. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 1:20 He'll always get to work out with me. So it's, it's, uh, it's cool, man. I, I like doing it and especially at Duane's gym too. It kind of shows, like, the true love that I have for the system in being in there.

Joe Rogan 1:29 Yeah. I mean, what kind of fucking sport other than MMA is that even possible?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 1:33 Good point. You know-

Joe Rogan 1:35 Right?

TJ Dillashaw 1:35 If it's controlled.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Maybe jiu-jitsu.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 1:36 Yeah. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 1:37 Jiu-jitsu, you could do that. But the people that... Most people don't know who the jiu-jitsu guys are. I mean, you're fighting on fucking television all the time. Yeah. And it's almost, it's almost too easy to have that happen in this sport.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Oh, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 1:46 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:46 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 1:46 To where, like, you... There's people you should be s- you shouldn't be sparring with that it happens. You know? That's why a controlled environment's awesome. That's why, like, I feel like the small kind of training camps and teams have been so beneficial 'cause you know exactly who you're working out with-

Joe Rogan 1:58 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 1:58 ... and who you're getting better with. But there are times to work out with the average guys, you know, not when I'm getting ready for a fight or, um, don't wanna get hurt, you know, kind of thing. And then his is a very controlled system when we're doing Dutch drills that, uh, it's, it's, uh, you're not gonna go crazy.

Joe Rogan 2:13 You know, there's so many different approaches to training fighters.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:16 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 2:17 And you obviously have hit... You guys have, like, the best fighter-trainer relationship that I know about 'cause you guys are so tight.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:25 It's like you guys are really a team. Whereas there's always some weird animosity with fighters and trainers, and the, the blowups are just like men and women. Like when, when men-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:34 ... and women break up, "You fucking bitch." You know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:37 "You fucking, you fucking, fucking..." (growls)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Like, the... That happens-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:40 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 2:40 ... with fi-... That makes me so sad when I see, like, fighter-trainer blowouts-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 2:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:45 ... when they separate and talk shit about each other. Like, God, that's so... that's such a bummer.

TJ Dillashaw 2:49 I think it's both of them have too big of an ego. One wants to be, like, the coach, maybe coaching the fighter, wants to be more popular or whatever it may be, you know. Um, and i- just the... I don't know. Whenever, whenever... Duane came into the gym, and as soon as he was there, from the first practice, I knew we were gonna get along. He's a crazy motherfucker. He likes to go hard. Um, competitive, and that was kind of like everything I do, you know?

Joe Rogan 3:09 But you're also... You have a very, very well-thought-out system.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 3:13 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Like I've been... I was very impressed with, like, just your documentation of your system, how you have all these different things worked out. Like s- these aren't, like, just hap-hap-... I mean, there's obviously creati- creativity involved-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 3:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:24 ... when an actual fight is happening, but your system is so well-thought-out and, and so comprehensive.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 3:31 I feel that's, that's what I'm supposed to be doing, is organizing the chaos of a fight so that the regular person can understand what's happening. When I was fighting in training, fighting was scary and, uh, you know, I was very scared of it so I wanted to make sure I understood what was going on, so I just started mapping it out. And a lot of that came from Sensei Rudin because he had the number system of, you know, three was jab, cross, hook rather than three just being the left hook. So he sparked the initial interest to just start categorizing everything and putting things into a system, and it helped out in the-

TJ Dillashaw 3:58 Yeah, but you don't sleep.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 3:59 ... really be successful. Yeah. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 3:59 He thinks about it nonstop. He doesn't sleep-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:01 There's only one way to be great.

TJ Dillashaw 4:02 I mean, I'll get a, I'll get a text message in the middle of the night when we're coming up to a fight and, like, it'd be, like, 12:00, 1:00, and it's even... If he's in Colorado, it's 2:00 for him. And (laughs) , uh-

Joe Rogan 4:11 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 4:11 ... getting a random text message of what I should be doing for this fight or what I... Like, he's watching sparring tapes of what I was doing. "We need to change this. We need to change that." I mean, this guy cares about my career just as much as I do, and that's why it works, you know? Um...

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:20 Yeah. It's true. I want him, I want him to be the best he can be.

TJ Dillashaw 4:22 So his system changes. I mean, it's, it's a great thought-out system, but, like, I've never had the same training camp.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 4:27 You know, I don't ever have the same c-... We, we have, like... Your system base is the same, but it always veers off. Like I don't even know what the TJ combo is anymore.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:36 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 4:36 I think it's changed, like, eight-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:36 You always gotta change things up.

TJ Dillashaw 4:37 ... changed, like, eight times, you know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:38 Yes, sir.

TJ Dillashaw 4:39 So it's always, like, an add-on or a change, so...

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:40 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 4:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:41 Well, I remember the first time you fought Renan Barao when you won the title. And Duane and I had lunch together. And there was a bunch of people at the table, but Duane didn't even know they were alive.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:51 Nope.

TJ Dillashaw 4:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:51 He wasn't even paying attention. He was just telling me exactly-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:54 I was focused.

Joe Rogan 4:54 ... how it was gonna go down and he was just talking about all the things. His hands were moving, his shoulders are twitching-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 4:58 Trying to become, uh-

Joe Rogan 4:59 ... his eyes are moving around back and forth, and he was going a hundred miles an hour with his voice. Just... (babbles) I was like, "Wow, dude. You are geared up." And he goes, "He's gonna fuck him up. He's gonna fuck him up."

TJ Dillashaw 5:08 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 5:09 For sure.

TJ Dillashaw 5:10 I mean, you see the emotion that he shows inside the octagon after the fights.

Joe Rogan 5:13 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 5:13 You know? So, uh, that's how much he cares going into it. That's how nervous he is, you know. Um, and like I said, if you have a coach that cares that much about you and your career, then you don't let it go.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Yeah. When you were... when you were in Sacramento and then you moved to Colorado, you had basically kind of had to start from scratch. You... A lot of people obviously know who you are. You're a well-sought-out trainer, but you were opening up your own place from scratch.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 5:34 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 5:34 And now that place is fucking mobbed and you're expanding.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 5:37 Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's... We're expanding and, uh, just continuing to grow and have a good, positive outlet for people to explore their soul, right? Uh, that's why I'm here, is to teach martial arts. So it's, uh... I'm glad everyone else is, is realizing that as well and I can cross paths with, uh, ninjas like TJ Dillashaw and help them become better martial artists. And it's just a good... I'm, you know, 100% livingly- living vicariously through TJ and all my athletes and everybody under the BMT umbrella. And it's a good way to give back and basically relive another career for the most part, right? So...

Joe Rogan 6:08 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 6:08 And that's what we should be doing anyways, paying the positive lessons forward and onto the next generation, and that's, uh, that's the definition of sensei, actually, meaning history teacher, teacher, you know, from those who've come before you. So... And to have somebody like TJ, as dedicated as he is, it's, it's a true blessing. And, uh, that's why I'm all in. He's all in. I'm all in. Let's go.

Joe Rogan 6:26 Yeah. Well, it's... It's just rare that you find all-in coach and all-in fighter-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 6:30 Yep.

Joe Rogan 6:30 ... and they get together and you guys have such unique working...

TJ Dillashaw 6:34 I'm, I'm more than all in, same with you, like...

Joe Rogan 6:35 Sure.

TJ Dillashaw 6:35 ... I'm, like, addicted, you know? Like I can't-

Joe Rogan 6:37 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 6:37 Like if I'm not completely, like, full-blown into it, I mentally am, am fucked when I get home, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:44 Now, coming off of this second victory over Cody and then being able to stop him even quicker this time and the... and just all the crazy shit-talking that led up to that fight and-

TJ Dillashaw 6:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:55 ... the results of the first fight...I mean, uh, that's gotta be very satisfying to you that everything is going according to plan.

TJ Dillashaw 7:03 Absolutely, man. Um, it is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:06 I mean, obviously.

TJ Dillashaw 7:06 Especially with the whole build-up. You know? It was, like, two years of just bullshit-

Joe Rogan 7:09 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 7:09 ... having to deal with that in my life. And that's not the kind of person I am, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:12 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 7:12 I'd rather be in the mountains, you not being able to get ahold of me, hunting or just camping. And, like, if I, if I could disappear, I'd, I'd take the advantage to do it, you know? So that crazy attention and just, like, the shit talk on the-

Joe Rogan 7:22 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 7:22 ... TV show, them accusing me of everything, like-

Joe Rogan 7:25 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 7:25 ... uh, that took a lot, you know? And so for all of that to be, like, taken off my shoulders feels great.

Joe Rogan 7:29 For you, though, th- there's got ... That's gotta be a real feeling of, like, retribution too. Like, no matter what they said-

TJ Dillashaw 7:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:36 ... like, you, you had the right idea. They might not have been happy-

TJ Dillashaw 7:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:39 ... that you decided to do it for yourself, and the right move for yourself was to go and go to Colorado and, and be with Duane, but obviously you were right.

TJ Dillashaw 7:47 Yeah. Oh, 100% I was right. I mean, that's why I made the decision. I'm definitely ... You know, you gotta be selfish in this, this sport. You gotta do what's best for yourself. And I-

Joe Rogan 7:55 In some ways, without fucking people over-

TJ Dillashaw 7:57 You have-

Joe Rogan 7:58 ... you have to be selfish. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 7:58 Of course.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 7:59 I mean, we have to know what's best for you. And then-

Joe Rogan 8:00 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 8:00 So the ultimate decision for me was when I got an ultimatum. You know? Like, Uriah knew how much I liked training with Duane. He knew how great it was for my mentality, and we just vibed right away, you know? And they didn't. And so when he gave me the ultimatum, like, "Look, man, you're either doing your camp with Duane or you're doing it with us," I was like, "Well, then, you don't have my best interest at heart. I'm outta here." You know? Like, I sold my house, bought, uh, moved, moved up to Colorado. Like, I dropped everything and went, dude. That was tough. That was a tough situation to go through. And, uh, I, I, I ... Yeah, I made the right choice, you know? Proved it.

Joe Rogan 8:28 Well, your d- your decision and the way you approached it was very similar to what you were doing too. 'Cause when I talked to you, you're like, "I'm gonna open up my own gym in Colorado."

TJ Dillashaw 8:36 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 8:36 And I remember thinking, whenever someone thinks they're gonna start from scratch with a new gym by themselves, I'm like, "Ugh." I mean, I wish you well, but damn, that's a lot of work.

TJ Dillashaw 8:45 I know.

Joe Rogan 8:45 You know as well as anybody.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 8:46 Yes, sir. I've, I've known since I was a kid I was gonna be a world champion and have my own academy in Colorado. Check, check.

Joe Rogan 8:51 Wow.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 8:52 So, we're pumped.

TJ Dillashaw 8:52 Starting a gym is tough, man.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 8:53 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 8:53 We're, we're doing it now. Well, we're, we've been going through it for the last year, year and a half down here in southern California, so ...

Joe Rogan 8:58 Yeah. And the, the new place is called ...

TJ Dillashaw 9:01 Uh, The Training Lab.

Joe Rogan 9:02 The Training Lab and-

TJ Dillashaw 9:02 But it's spelled with an R-E-I-N.

Joe Rogan 9:04 ... spelled with R-E-I-N.

TJ Dillashaw 9:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:04 Like, REIN.

TJ Dillashaw 9:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:05 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 9:05 'Cause Mark Muñoz had REINN-

Joe Rogan 9:07 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 9:07 ... down in, uh, Lake Forest. And Sam Calvitha, the guy that I moved down for for strength and conditioning, just his, his crazy mind. He's beyond smart. Like, he'll ... Everything he talks about ... Like, I had to be at his house for hours pretty much doing a podcast with him to figure out what he's talking about, and usually it always goes over your head. You know, I've gone ... Like I said, I'm always full-blown. I'm in 100%. And so as soon as he started to show me the science behind what my body needs to do, uh, for my diet, my recovery, um, the days I'm working out, my ... the way I'm doing my strength and conditioning, and what ... if I'm gonna go bigger or how far I am from camp. Like, everything has a rhyme and reason. Like, every calorie I eat, every macronutrients I eat, he's got it down written down. He's ... Like, this guy stays up late and works. And, and he doesn't do it for the money or the pride. Like, he doesn't want anything. Like, we do it out of his garage. You know? It's like an old Rocky-style training with Drago science.

Joe Rogan 9:57 I saw that on the UFC countdown videos.

TJ Dillashaw 9:59 Yeah, man. We're out in the park, you know. We're doing crazy, like-

Joe Rogan 10:01 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 10:01 Yesterday I was out in the park with him doing a bunch of crazy stuff and a lot of reaction time stuff. And, uh, just the way he trains is very, very scientific, and I've seen the gains. Insanely, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:11 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 10:12 For as old as I am, I'm the strongest and fastest I've ever been.

Joe Rogan 10:15 How old are you now?

TJ Dillashaw 10:16 32. And I've been training since I was eight, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:19 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 10:19 I never got on a diet, never got into any of this, um, until I started picking Sam's brain. And, uh, I think the real s- ... I mean, everything's ... It's not bro science either. We're not like, "Oh, I think I feel better."

Joe Rogan 10:29 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 10:29 I'm testing myself, you know. I've, I've boosted my hormones. Um, I wasn't able to get my wife pregnant for three years, and it happened in three months after meeting Sam. Like, I went full-bl- ... I went so full-blown that I created my own, like, spice company around his diet. You know? Like, I don't-

Joe Rogan 10:42 What's ch- ... Well, what has he got you doing differently? What ... How were you eating before, and what were you doing before for strength and conditioning before you met him?

TJ Dillashaw 10:48 Um, so it was ... I didn't care about what I ate. I wa- ... I don't cut much weight, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:54 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 10:54 35s isn't a very big cut for me, so-

Joe Rogan 10:55 What do you walk around at?

TJ Dillashaw 10:56 Um, like, right now I probably walk about 150 this morning. Um, that's a little bit lighter than normal, but I haven't been doing my ... I have to ... I bulk up to go 35s. I put on another, like, good five pounds of muscle before I start to even worry about my weight at 35s. Um, but I was just eating whatever, you know? Um, and I used to make fun of Danny for being gluten-free. He'd be like, "Ah, give me more gluten."

Joe Rogan 11:15 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 11:15 "I don't care. I'll eat whatever I want. I'm the best, you know? I'll just train hard, train harder than everyone." But, uh, not only my age, but just, uh, learning the science behind it. Now I'm not eating grains, you know. No sugars unless it's a simple, like, uh, from fruits and stuff like that. Um, yeah, man. I mean, it, it's, it's a special diet. I'd say, like, the cl- ... You, like, almost go, like, paleo, keto kinda, but obviously our bodies can't do that because I need the simple carbs, the new carbs to run off of stuff.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 11:40 But, uh, yeah, man. He's real ... I, I don't wanna give away all his secrets, but yeah, man. He's, he's changed up a lot with me.

Joe Rogan 11:46 He don't wanna give away all his secrets. But when it comes to nutrition-

TJ Dillashaw 11:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:49 ... like, what is d- what is different? Like, what kind of protein does he have you eating? What portions of protein? How much of it is fat? What ... Are you getting your fat from avocado, coconut oil? What are you getting it from?

TJ Dillashaw 11:58 Oh, yeah. Uh, lot of, lot of, lot of nuts. Lot of coconut oils. Um, uh, they even pre-make my meals, so I don't even-

Joe Rogan 12:05 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 12:05 I don't even think about what meals I'm eating, so ...

Joe Rogan 12:07 Jesus Christ.

TJ Dillashaw 12:08 He does all three of my meals and two of my snacks every day.

Joe Rogan 12:11 And you j- ... You live in that area when you're in training camp?

TJ Dillashaw 12:13 Yes. Yeah. So I, I just bought a house in Yorba Linda.

Joe Rogan 12:15 Ah. That's a nice area.

TJ Dillashaw 12:17 Um, it's nice. Dude, I love it. It's amazing. It's a real good family area-

Joe Rogan 12:19 It's real quiet.

TJ Dillashaw 12:19 ... good school district, so ... Um, that's how you know your life has changed, when you're looking at houses for school districts and that.

Joe Rogan 12:25 Dude. (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 12:25 (laughs) Yeah, right?

TJ Dillashaw 12:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:26 Trust me.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 12:27 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 12:27 You know, to be in a father's grace. But I'm, I'm lucky-

Joe Rogan 12:29 It's a ch- lucky change of the, the whole shifting of your world.

TJ Dillashaw 12:31 It's everything. Yeah. I mean, it's everything. That's all you think about, you know?

Joe Rogan 12:34 Takes a while to be- realize you're a different person, like-

TJ Dillashaw 12:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 ... "Oh, I'm a different person than I used to be."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 12:38 I remember you made a comment before saying that there was a, an old banana or a fresh banana or something, right?

TJ Dillashaw 12:44 Oh, yeah. That was a bit for my act.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 12:45 Oh, is that what it was?

TJ Dillashaw 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 I just went and realized something. There was two bananas, and one of 'em was, like, yellow and perfect, and the other one was brown and fucked up. But my daughter loves bananas, so I took that brown fucked up banana-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 12:57 Yep.

Joe Rogan 12:57 ... and I ate it.... 'cause I li- r- realized that I was, I was putting her above me and that, that was... I'd never thought about that before. And then I said, "Because I love my wife, she's an awesome person, but if it's just me and her, that bitch is getting a shitty banana." (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 13:13 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:14 (laughs) That's what I do. That's why I drive a, a fricking Subaru car, 'cause it's got five-star crash rating, good in the snow.

Joe Rogan 13:20 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:20 So yeah, I b- I think of the kids first for sure.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Dude, Subaru, they own Denver.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:25 Col- yeah, Colorado.

Joe Rogan 13:25 They own it.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:26 There's tons of Subarus.

Joe Rogan 13:27 They own Colorado, it's like-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:27 But I did just get a Tesla.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Oh.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:29 So I'm supporting the podcast.

Joe Rogan 13:30 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:31 Well, I... Well, kinda. Not like I just... It's not like I just dropped 50 grand, you know? You, you go on the website, you punch in you- the information, you put in $1000 deposit, and then you gotta wait for a while for it to be built.

Joe Rogan 13:39 Right.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:39 So it's not like I dropped 50 grand and I'm gonna lease it through the business anyway, but-

Joe Rogan 13:43 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:43 ... I've been wanting to get one for a while.

Joe Rogan 13:45 It's funny, man, how Subarus, like, they've proven themselves in Colorado-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:49 ... just for reliability.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:50 They're awesome. Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:51 You know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:51 There are a ton of old ones still floating around, 'cause they were.

Joe Rogan 13:53 Everywhere. They just-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:54 Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:54 Literally if you go through Boulder, it's like 50% Subarus.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:57 I w- I would say that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:58 They just-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 13:59 For sure.

Joe Rogan 13:59 They've just said, "Let's just cut the shit."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:01 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:01 "This one is the best in snow."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:03 "Let's stop fucking around. They never break."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Fucking Japanese cars, man. They never... I've had three Lexuses, never had a single problem with any of them.

TJ Dillashaw 14:11 That's nice. Yeah, it's good built car.

Joe Rogan 14:12 Over, like, 15, 20 years-

TJ Dillashaw 14:14 Wow.

Joe Rogan 14:14 ... I've had Lexuses. They never fuck up.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:16 Perfect.

Joe Rogan 14:17 They just start, vroom, every time.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:19 No fuck ups.

TJ Dillashaw 14:20 300 miles on it, it's still gonna run.

Joe Rogan 14:22 Yeah. Other cars, you get in, the windows roll halfway down. What the fuck's going on? Ding, ding, ding, lights go off in the dashboard. What is this?

TJ Dillashaw 14:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:29 It shuts off. Ah, fuck!

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:30 Put black tape over it, you won't see it no more.

Joe Rogan 14:32 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 14:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:34 Oh, yeah. Well, you know-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:34 With the...

Joe Rogan 14:35 I don't know. It's gotta be difficult to build cars. Speaking of cars, d- does everybody know you have that fucking thing outside? Are you a- allowed to talk about?

TJ Dillashaw 14:41 Oh yeah, I'm gonna talk about it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:42 You got one of my favorite cars ever.

TJ Dillashaw 14:44 Yeah, I love it.

Joe Rogan 14:44 The new NSX.

TJ Dillashaw 14:45 It's amazing car.

Joe Rogan 14:46 That thing's a spaceship.

TJ Dillashaw 14:48 It really is, man.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:49 Yeah, spaceship.

TJ Dillashaw 14:50 Dude, uh-

Joe Rogan 14:50 That's a real spaceship.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 14:52 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 14:52 It's a real fun car.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Doesn't it... What are we talking about? It has four engines. Three of them are electric. I mean, it's... it is a crazy-

TJ Dillashaw 14:59 And it's got that twin turbo V6.

Joe Rogan 15:00 ... vehicle.

TJ Dillashaw 15:00 I mean, it's only got, uh, high 500s in horsepower, but-

Joe Rogan 15:03 There it is. Look at that fucking thing.

TJ Dillashaw 15:05 Yeah, but it, uh-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 15:06 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 15:06 Only got a high 500s.

TJ Dillashaw 15:07 But the torque-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 15:08 It's so hilarious how it sounds.

TJ Dillashaw 15:08 ... on it is insane 'cause it's a, it's, uh, uh, two electric motors.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 15:11 So off the start it's s- so fast. Uh, 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds.

Joe Rogan 15:14 Jesus!

TJ Dillashaw 15:15 It's fast, dude.

Joe Rogan 15:16 So good-looking too.

TJ Dillashaw 15:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:18 I love the way they look.

TJ Dillashaw 15:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:19 They, they look like a car that's supposed to be built in 2018.

TJ Dillashaw 15:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:22 You know what I mean? It's like that shit's from the future.

TJ Dillashaw 15:25 It took them a long time to, to create that car. I mean, they stopped making the, the second generation NSX, like, what?

Joe Rogan 15:30 2005.

TJ Dillashaw 15:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:31 I had one.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 15:31 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 15:31 Oh, did you?

Joe Rogan 15:32 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 15:32 That's why you're a huge fan of them too?

Joe Rogan 15:33 I had two of those.

TJ Dillashaw 15:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:34 Yeah. I had one in the early '90s and then I had one in, uh, 2003.

TJ Dillashaw 15:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:39 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 15:39 Well, what... Uh, do you like the early '90s or is 2000 better?

Joe Rogan 15:42 No, I like the headlights better in the newer one.

TJ Dillashaw 15:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:44 But they're all awesome.

TJ Dillashaw 15:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:46 They're just... It's not a fast car, like if you buy it, I think it had 270 horsepower.

TJ Dillashaw 15:50 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:51 But it's all aluminum.

TJ Dillashaw 15:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:52 It's mid-engine. It sounds amazing when it gets high, like h- in the high revs, but it doesn't sound like... It's, it's not like a, like an old Mustang where it's like, "Fuck you."

TJ Dillashaw 16:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Like metals are traveling the street. It's like a sophisticated sound.

TJ Dillashaw 16:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:07 But a cool sound, the VTEC engine.

TJ Dillashaw 16:09 That was my one problem with the new NSX, was that how quiet it was, 'cause it's a hybrid. So I'm, like, the... Like I said, I was one of three cars in the United States right now that have a custom exhaust for it to make it sound a lot better. This guy out in Chicago, AB Rogue, I think it is, um, has designed a, a, an exhaust for it.

Joe Rogan 16:25 You know, that car is also, even though it's an Acura, that car is made and designed in the United States.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:30 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 16:30 Yeah, the factory is in Ohio, right?

Joe Rogan 16:31 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 16:31 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:32 Yeah, it's a total American car.

TJ Dillashaw 16:34 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 16:34 It's under the Acura... I mean, it's like, what is American anymore? I mean, I don't, I don't even understand it anymore.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:39 Every time I order stuff, it's always from China or Pakistan or something, so yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:42 But it's also, like, the parts, like, are all the parts made here?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:45 No.

Joe Rogan 16:45 Everything?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:46 No way.

Joe Rogan 16:46 You know, like-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 16:47 Assembled.

Joe Rogan 16:47 That's an i- an issue with Harley Davidson, right? Trump wants us to ban Harley Davidson's now.

TJ Dillashaw 16:52 I didn't hear that.

Joe Rogan 16:52 Boycott, boycott Harley Davidson.

TJ Dillashaw 16:54 Really?

Joe Rogan 16:55 Yeah. Yeah, because Harley Davidson is gonna shift their factories to somewhere to make some part of it or maybe all of it.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:00 Shouldn't it be talking about the Elon Musk and saving the world?

Joe Rogan 17:03 I don't know.

TJ Dillashaw 17:04 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:04 I don't, I don't think anybody could do Trump's job. I don't think anybody should be president.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:08 I think-

Joe Rogan 17:08 I think it's stupid-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:09 There's no way I could-

Joe Rogan 17:09 ... stupid to ask one person to have that much responsibility.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:11 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 17:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:12 Just-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:13 That, that person, they need at least 10, 15 people to handle that job.

Joe Rogan 17:16 At least.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:16 For sure.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Maybe 30.

TJ Dillashaw 17:17 There's no way I'd ever want the pressure of that job.

Joe Rogan 17:19 Fuck that job.

TJ Dillashaw 17:21 No way.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Fuck that job.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:22 I wonder how much he's actually doing though.

Joe Rogan 17:24 I wonder how much pussy he's getting.

TJ Dillashaw 17:25 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:26 I really wanna know 'cause I don't think he's stopped getting pussy. He's like, "I'm Trump."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:31 Yeah, for sure-

Joe Rogan 17:32 You know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:32 ... he's uh-

Joe Rogan 17:32 I mean-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:32 ... he's still on the roll.

Joe Rogan 17:33 There's gotta be... I mean, whether him and Melania still hook up, she seems upset with him. It's interesting-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:39 It's funny.

Joe Rogan 17:39 ... as a drama, as watch it all go down, like is a, is the investigation closing in on him? Are they gonna put him in jail or is he gonna be like, "Fuck you, I'm getting my spaceship."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:47 I'm flying away. (laughs) I don't know.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:50 I'm pretty sure he has a spaceship.

Joe Rogan 17:52 Well, if he doesn't, he's trying to find out if he can get one.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:54 Oh.

Joe Rogan 17:54 A gold one that says Trump on the side.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:55 That's why he's gotta work with Elon Musk again.

Joe Rogan 17:57 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 17:57 See, he gotta space ship real quick.

Joe Rogan 17:58 Elon bailed on him when they got out of the Paris Accord.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:02 Ah.

Joe Rogan 18:02 You know, the, uh, climate accord.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:04 I don't know-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:05 I don't know enough about this-

TJ Dillashaw 18:06 I don't see that-

Joe Rogan 18:06 I don't know how your brain holds onto even that much information. You, you remember everything.

TJ Dillashaw 18:10 I don't know either, man. I remember too much- It's a problem.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 18:12 I don't remember shit, but, like, my wife will tell me from Tuesday.

TJ Dillashaw 18:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:15 Like, "What? You told me that?" She's like, "We were standing right here." She'll, like, go over all the details because she remembers all of it. I'm like, "Okay. I r- I guess you're right."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:23 Okay. I don't- I don't think that for sure.

Joe Rogan 18:26 (laughs) But I'll tell you, in 1852... Exactly.

TJ Dillashaw 18:29 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:29 Yeah. Pull up some facts and stats.

Joe Rogan 18:31 Some stupid stats, yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:32 That's how I am, like when it comes to martial arts, I feel like I, I understand, have a good grasp on, on what's happening, but the outside of martial arts, I don't know that much.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Yeah, but that's probably good, man. You know? I think there's-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 18:42 What I do. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:42 ... something, there's some-... real power in that, having a singular focus. I think in order to be great at something, you, you have to be that way. I don't think you can spread too thin-

TJ Dillashaw 18:52 I wouldn't, I wouldn't say singular, but I would say very dominantly focused, you know.

Joe Rogan 18:55 Yeah. I think you're right.

TJ Dillashaw 18:56 Because I would, if I was only thinking about MMA, I would not be here. I wouldn't be fighting-

Joe Rogan 19:00 (laughs) Yeah. That's a good point, right? Like, you need some other things that interest you to relieve the pressure.

TJ Dillashaw 19:05 Have to.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 19:06 O- otherwise, it's too much, and you snap. The, I mean-

Joe Rogan 19:08 What is the best one for you?

TJ Dillashaw 19:10 Escape-wise?

Joe Rogan 19:11 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 19:11 Uh, jumping on my Malibu boat in my backyard in Colorado and wake surfing and just getting out.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Yeah. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 19:17 Or, or hunting, both those. I like getting out. I just went and hiked around in the mountains of Colorado for ... I only got to do two and a half days 'cause I'm too busy. But by myself, no one else, uh, first time I ever hunted the area, I scouted it, like, three days before the camp, but just went out by myself. Couldn't, didn't have a cellphone reception, nothing, just to your own thoughts for two and a half days kinda thing.

Joe Rogan 19:34 So, this type year, uh, this time of year, archery mule deer, is that what it was?

TJ Dillashaw 19:38 Yeah, so I tried getting a, uh, elk tag in Colorado, but I didn't draw. I did draw a mule deer tag for the same area. Um, but it, so it's heavily dominated elk-

Joe Rogan 19:47 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 19:47 ... so it's hard to get a mule deer there.

Joe Rogan 19:49 Yeah, it's hard to get those two to coincide with each other, but that's, that's hard hunting.

TJ Dillashaw 19:52 Oh.

Joe Rogan 19:52 That's mountain hunting. That's the real deal.

TJ Dillashaw 19:54 Yeah, man. I mean, you're going from 8,000 to 10, 11, 12,000 feet, you know?

Joe Rogan 19:59 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 19:59 Hike two or three of those mountains and you're toast when you get back.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Hey, man, when you do that, bring that, um, Shroom Tech Sport.

TJ Dillashaw 20:05 Oh, nice.

Joe Rogan 20:05 That Onniva Shroom Tech Sport-

TJ Dillashaw 20:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:07 ... or any cordyceps mushroom supplement, anything along those lines, that's l- literally how it came about. They realized these high altitude, uh, cattle herders were realizing that their cows were more active when they were eating these certain mushrooms, and that's the cordyceps mushroom. We actually grow ... we don't grow, but, you know, we buy it from growers.

Guest 20:25 We buy it from someone else.

Joe Rogan 20:25 They grow it off caterpillars.

TJ Dillashaw 20:27 Oh, no way.

Joe Rogan 20:28 Yeah.

Guest 20:28 They grow it off the caterpillar?

Joe Rogan 20:29 Yeah, it's fucking weird shit, man.

Guest 20:31 All cordycep mushrooms are grown that way?

Joe Rogan 20:33 I don't know about all, but a lot of them.

Guest 20:34 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:35 Yeah, they grow them on caterpillars, so they're definitely not vegan. (laughs)

Guest 20:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:40 Unless, yeah, I mean-

Guest 20:42 I take, I take Shroom Tech and Alpha Brain before every session.

TJ Dillashaw 20:44 So, is that a plant-based, is that a plant-based, like-

Joe Rogan 20:46 It's fungal based.

TJ Dillashaw 20:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 20:47 But the thing-

TJ Dillashaw 20:48 Yeah. Oh, mushroom, duh.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Yeah. Mushrooms e- um, they take in air, and they breathe out carbon dioxide like we do.

TJ Dillashaw 20:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 20:54 They're closer to animals than they are to plants.

Guest 20:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:57 It's a whole different categ- you ever listen to Paul Stamets?

Guest 21:00 No.

TJ Dillashaw 21:00 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 21:00 Oh my God, I did a podcast with him. Strap yourself in. Take three hits, hold on tight, buckle down-

Guest 21:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:08 ... and listen to that guy's podcast. He's a real mycologist.

Guest 21:11 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 21:11 Like, an actual scientist who studies mushrooms.

Guest 21:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:14 And he's amazing. So that's how cordyceps mushrooms are grown.

TJ Dillashaw 21:17 Okay.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Where's the, uh, caterpillar? Underneath that?

Guest 21:20 Uh, you can just buy ... that's a culture of it.

Joe Rogan 21:21 Oh, that's a culture of them?

Guest 21:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 Yeah.

Guest 21:22 I thought it would have a caterpillar in there, but-

Joe Rogan 21:24 Okay. So this is, uh, for your h- for your home?

Guest 21:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:27 You could ... that's probably even better, right? You get it fresh. (scoffs)

Guest 21:30 I don't know how you make it, but-

Joe Rogan 21:30 (sighs) I don't know how to make it either.

Guest 21:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:32 A lot of dudes grow 'shrooms though. It's pretty easy, apparently.

Guest 21:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:36 Um, but just, it's a phenomenal supplement, and if you're doing anything high altitude-

Guest 21:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:42 ... it will absolutely increase your endurance.

Guest 21:45 The-

Joe Rogan 21:45 That is one of the only supplements that I'll tell people, "Look, if you're skeptical about any of this shit, please, I want you to g- before you work out, an hour before, you take four Shroom Tech Sports and get ready 'cause you're gonna have an extra gear."

Guest 21:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:58 You, you got one extra gear in training. It's like one extra push.

Guest 22:01 I know this will help. Yeah, like I was saying earlier, I take them before every, uh, session with TJ.

TJ Dillashaw 22:04 Mm-hmm.

Guest 22:05 It's Shroom Tech and Alpha Brain.

Joe Rogan 22:06 It's the B12-

Guest 22:07 Got them.

Joe Rogan 22:07 It's cordyceps mushrooms, B12, and adaptogens. And those are all really important things for energy. So is, does Kalavita have you doing all kinds of supplementation, and-

Guest 22:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:17 ... what has he got you, uh, taking?

TJ Dillashaw 22:19 So everyone's got a different supplement plan because he does a hair analysis from us and decides like-

Joe Rogan 22:23 Jesus Christ is a scientist.

TJ Dillashaw 22:25 Oh, you really ... everything's got numbers, man, everything.

Joe Rogan 22:26 Hair analysis. I love it.

TJ Dillashaw 22:27 Yeah. And so he'll be ... so my supplement base would be different than Dwayne's. I mean, a lot of us have the, we have the same aminos. We have the same s- creatine, obviously depending on where you're going for a fight, um, you know, that kind of stuff. But when it comes down to what, what's in your body mineral wise, like, I might have more magnesium or more this or more of that.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 22:45 And gets our body back to homeostasis. So it'll take out what you have too much of. I might need more vitamin B3 complex.

Joe Rogan 22:50 Are there any examples of things you didn't, you have too much of?

TJ Dillashaw 22:53 I have, well, I have too much arsenic in my body. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:55 Oh, what were you eating?

TJ Dillashaw 22:57 Um, I think it's rice. I think the rice is given a lot of ... because rice is heavily-

Joe Rogan 23:00 Rice? Mm-hmm. Good stuff.

TJ Dillashaw 23:01 ... 'cause it's grown in water.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 23:03 Um, and so the arsenics come out of the water.

Joe Rogan 23:05 Oh, wow.

TJ Dillashaw 23:06 Yeah. Yeah, so I, I think it's ars- it could be from my tattoos as well. I mean, tattoo, like the, the ink.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Whoa, really?

TJ Dillashaw 23:11 Yeah, the ink has arsenic in it.

Joe Rogan 23:13 I'm fucked then.

TJ Dillashaw 23:14 (laughs) Yeah, man, the only person that have more arsenic in my body than me in our camp was, uh, Cub Swanson.

Joe Rogan 23:20 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 23:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:21 And he's all covered in tattoos.

TJ Dillashaw 23:22 His whole back and stuff, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:24 Yeah, that is crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 23:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Now, did, what, did they find a way to eliminate it? Can you eliminate it?

TJ Dillashaw 23:29 Yeah. Yeah, so I'm taking, uh, well, I'm taking a lot of different stuff for it, but I'm taking chlorella. I'm, I juice every day. I juice, um, cilantro. Cilantros are good for heavy metals, getting the detox. Uh, I'm taking methionine, which is like amino to pull it out of your body. And then he's got some drops I'm, I'm on too that I don't even know what they are.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Now, have you got a second test? To see-

TJ Dillashaw 23:48 Yeah. It's come down by over 50%.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Oh, wow.

TJ Dillashaw 23:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:52 I had ... oh, so if it's still in your system, and it's not, uh, you're not eating rice anymore-

TJ Dillashaw 23:58 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 23:58 ... so it's gotta be from your tattoos.

TJ Dillashaw 24:00 Yeah, could be. I mean-

Joe Rogan 24:01 Or is it just slowly leaving?

TJ Dillashaw 24:02 No, it can't. So you can do a, um, collation where they do it by IV.

Joe Rogan 24:05 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 24:06 But that stuff's like, it's ha- it's hard on you, how fast it comes out. So it comes out in, like, pimples. It'll come out, like, when I'm ... uh, it's, it started coming out of my arm. Like, it would mainly, I'd get pimples throughout my arm, and that's kind of your body pushing it. You also push it-

Joe Rogan 24:18 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 24:18 ... through your urine and things like that, but it'll come out of your skin.

Joe Rogan 24:20 You got arsenic zits, son.

TJ Dillashaw 24:22 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Weird.

TJ Dillashaw 24:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:24 I tested for arsenic once 'cause, but I was eating sardines. I was eating a lot of sardines.

Guest 24:28 Mm.

Joe Rogan 24:28 And apparently, they, they live around the bottom of the ocean, and they get a lot of the heavy metal poisonings from that way.

TJ Dillashaw 24:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 24:36 That's crazy, but it makes sense with rice.

TJ Dillashaw 24:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:37 That totally makes sense.

TJ Dillashaw 24:38 Yeah. But everyone's got different supplements. Like, uh, it just depends on what's in your body, like, how, like, what you need to get back to perfect homeostasis.

Joe Rogan 24:45 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 24:45 And then he adds, like, you know, the certain amino body buil- or muscle building and, and, um, ubiquinol and the krill oils and things like that for, um, building r- new red blood cells and things like that. But-

Joe Rogan 24:57 What is his scientific background?

TJ Dillashaw 24:59 So I don't know all of that. I know he worked for NASA. Um, he was, uh, like, working with the nuclear anti-defic- defense system.

Joe Rogan 25:06 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 25:07 And then he missed a Christmas or something and decided to, uh, move home and be a school teacher and he became a calculus teacher.

Joe Rogan 25:14 Whoa.

TJ Dillashaw 25:14 Um, and he does like a private high school and, uh, people travel all over the world to do his class- to take his class. Um, he won some award for being the best calculus teacher in the world. Like all of his kids on his placement test, uh, scored, I don't know if it's perfect or very high and it was... So yeah, he- he's- he's just, uh, m- like math. Math will tell you everything.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 25:35 The- and the numbers. It's not, like I said, it's not bro science. It's to the exact. You know exactly if you're getting better. Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:42 Well, he, uh, must apply that science to his understanding of- of energy and of- of intensity because like the way you guys train- Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 25:50 ... it's very intense, very explosive. It reminds me a lot of what I'm seeing at least of like Marv Marinovich's type training.

Joe Rogan 25:56 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 25:56 Like a lot of plyometrics, a lot of things along those lines.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 26:00 Would that be fair to say? Absolutely. But then we also do... We're also doing, um, uh, deadlifts and cleans and we're doing a lot of stuff, man. Um...

Joe Rogan 26:09 And he mixes it up a lot?

TJ Dillashaw 26:10 Yeah, depending where you're at in your camp. Um, how your body... Also the recovery. So the recovery's huge. He listens to our- our, uh, our body while we're sleeping. So he gets a report every morning of how-

Joe Rogan 26:19 How he was next to you in the bed. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 26:21 Pretty much. (laughs) He'll go-

Joe Rogan 26:22 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 26:22 ... like, "You had a couple glasses of wine last night."

Joe Rogan 26:24 "Damn, damn."

TJ Dillashaw 26:24 You know, like, uh, why- why you're not recovering. He just like knows... Or if he knows you're too stressed out, he knows... Like he'll tell me when I'm gonna get sick.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 26:30 Like he's caught on to me getting sick before I got sick.

Joe Rogan 26:32 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 26:33 He's like, "Oh, your body's about to crash." Like, "You need to like take the next day, next two days off." Like-

Joe Rogan 26:37 Whoa.

TJ Dillashaw 26:37 ... "You need to really rest."

Joe Rogan 26:39 Really? I mean- He help- he helped keep TJ in that last fight.

TJ Dillashaw 26:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:41 Yeah, helped repair some injuries, right? We don't have to talk about them but-

TJ Dillashaw 26:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:44 ... he help- he ke- without Sam-

TJ Dillashaw 26:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:47 ... that fight may have been different.

TJ Dillashaw 26:48 Probably my last two fights.

Joe Rogan 26:49 Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yes, sir.

TJ Dillashaw 26:51 I've been de- I've been dealing with some serious stuff last couple of fights but I've been able to, uh, keep my body very, very strong, you know? I've been-

Joe Rogan 26:56 Well, no, you also spent some time with Dr. Neil Riordan-

TJ Dillashaw 26:59 Yes.

Joe Rogan 26:59 ... down in Panama and-

TJ Dillashaw 27:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:00 ... did that... Was that for the same type of injuries?

TJ Dillashaw 27:02 The same thing, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:03 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 27:03 So a combina- combination of, uh, the science of stem cell and Dr. Neil Riordan as well as Mora here. I got... I mean, I got stem cells in the States, I got it in Panama. Like I've had to do a lot to hold myself together kind of thing, you know. And I don't feel great, um, because of the way I'm training and- and, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:19 I don't think people understand the, uh, the kind of strain on your body a fight camp puts.

TJ Dillashaw 27:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:26 It's fucking crazy. I mean, if I worked out the way you guys did once-

TJ Dillashaw 27:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:30 ... I'm wrecked for a week.

TJ Dillashaw 27:31 But that's why he's doing-

Joe Rogan 27:32 But you guys are doing two a days-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 27:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:33 ... every day, constantly going at it and then there's ice baths. Is... Sam, what does h- he have you doing? Sauna, ice bath, what does he have you got?

TJ Dillashaw 27:41 Um, for our recovery, I mean, mainly it's just a lot of, most of the time taking the time off. But we have, um... It's always changing, it's always evolving too. He's got like this iMile Pro we do for like some sort of stim on our muscles, w- I'm- I do light therapy.

Joe Rogan 27:54 Stim, like electrical stim?

TJ Dillashaw 27:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:56 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 27:56 I do, I do, uh, light therapy. Um, there's this new place he's starting to work with, uh, down in, um, Mission Viejo called like the O2 Recovery Center where we'll do... We'll do cryo, we'll do hyperbaric chamber, we'll do, um... What is it? CVAC or something like that.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Mm-hmm, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 28:12 Uh, bunch of different stuff we're gonna add to it.

Joe Rogan 28:13 CVAC is the machine we were talking about really recently where you... It jacks you up in alt- in altitude and then brings you down.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:19 It like changes the pressure inside that little tube and-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:22 That's supposed to be pretty amazing. Did you have good results with that?

TJ Dillashaw 28:24 I actually haven't done it yet.

Joe Rogan 28:25 Oh, okay.

TJ Dillashaw 28:25 So something he's told me now that like we're gonna add this now.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 28:28 Like it's always like every time I come back to camp, it's like we're adding the next step.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 28:31 He doesn't do it all at once.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:32 As it should, right?

Joe Rogan 28:34 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:34 I mean life's always changing and evolving, it's different times.

TJ Dillashaw 28:36 It's never... It'd be like you teaching me the BMT black belt system right away-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:40 Right, yes sir.

TJ Dillashaw 28:40 ... without knowing any of it. You know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 28:41 You gotta book 'em up.

TJ Dillashaw 28:41 So he like gets my body like slowly adapted to certain things, then he adds to it.

Joe Rogan 28:45 What about massage?

TJ Dillashaw 28:47 A lot, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:47 Yeah? What kind of massages do they do?

TJ Dillashaw 28:48 He doesn't have me do it, I just do it 'cause I love it.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 28:50 You know? But, uh, I- I always do deep tissue for the most part.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 28:54 And then, um, a lot of the like mat, like the stretching, um, kind- kind of like, uh-

Joe Rogan 28:59 Thai massage type stuff?

TJ Dillashaw 29:00 Yeah, a lot of Thai massage and then they'll also... Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 29:03 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 29:03 I forgot, they stretch out very well.

Joe Rogan 29:04 That's amazing. They stand on your back and-

TJ Dillashaw 29:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:06 ... pull your arms up, be like, "Yeah."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 29:07 I have a student, Brett Tommasini, he is by far the best massage therapist-

TJ Dillashaw 29:11 He's good.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 29:12 ... I've ever come across.

Joe Rogan 29:13 He's good.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 29:13 He's badass. There's someone who's out there. The best there... Man, he- he- he's- He's good. ... he's got a black belt in massage therapy, that's for sure.

TJ Dillashaw 29:19 Like a- a- a good massage shouldn't feel that great to the average person, like it's gonna hurt.

Joe Rogan 29:23 It's supposed to hurt.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 29:24 Yeah, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 29:24 You know? But it's how you're gonna feel afterwards and I actually now have learned to enjoy the pain kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 29:28 Hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 29:29 Um, but yeah, actually so, I'm in... I've been working this whole ass camp too, a guy that really helped me get to my camp was, um... I'm an idiot right now.

Joe Rogan 29:37 It's good.

TJ Dillashaw 29:37 Drawing a blank, but, uh, Javier, he, uh, did a lot of body work on me, um, that hold me in place as well too. Uh-

Joe Rogan 29:44 Body work as opposed to like what's... Like what is body work as opposed to regular massage?

TJ Dillashaw 29:48 Like he's more of like, um, the nerve, like the nervous system of all your- your pathways, um, and really find out what's weak. Like he- he'll tell me like something that's like weak before I even let him know before the massage kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 29:58 How they... How can he tell that?

TJ Dillashaw 30:00 I don't know how he can tell that, I'm not really sure, I'd have to have him tell you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:04 So there's something weird about people that touch people's bodies all the time and you go, "This is all horse shit." And then they put their arm and shoulder, "What's going on with your shoulder?" They're like,

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:11 "What? What do you mean?" And like, "It's very, uh, very tense up here." "You have an injury you're nursing." Like how... What?

TJ Dillashaw 30:16 How'd you know that?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:17 How the fuck do you know?

Joe Rogan 30:18 There's that sixth sense for sure, something's going on.

TJ Dillashaw 30:19 And most... They just get used to like the difference between your left side and your right side, you're like, "Oh, something's going on here." They just... It's like everything else, right? Like your understanding of what an athlete is capable of-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:29 For sure.

Joe Rogan 30:29 ... is so different than a person who doesn't train.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Just... And I think it's gotta be-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:34 You know, we don't... We can't imagine someone being able to touch your pec and go, "Oh, you've got a tear. You got a- you got a muscle tear." You're like, "What?"

TJ Dillashaw 30:40 Mm-hmm. But there's also those massage therapists that will do something like, "How's that feel? You feel better?" It's like, "Oh yeah, I guess I feel better now."

Joe Rogan 30:45 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 30:45 But this guy will find my weaknesses be- uh, without me even telling him.

Joe Rogan 30:49 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 30:49 Um, he'll know like things that I need to get worked on. Uh, he knows if my hips are aligned. Uh, like kind of like almost like a chiropractor as well but he doesn't do chiropractic work.

Joe Rogan 30:57 Good.

TJ Dillashaw 30:57 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:59 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 30:59 Yeah, exactly.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 30:59 What if it's- You don't like chiropractors, huh?

Joe Rogan 31:01 I just don't think it's real.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:02 I love them. I love to get lined back up.

Joe Rogan 31:04 Good.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:04 I've had neck... My neck just tweaked and not be able to do anything and then get lined back up and be ready to go.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:09 It's definitely helped me.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Massage, I think does-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:10 And massage.

Joe Rogan 31:11 ... works better than anything.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:13 But it's just too much about what- what chiropractic medicine was, how it started.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:18 Oh.

Joe Rogan 31:18 It started by a guy who was a magnetic healer-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:20 ... who learned about it in a seance and then his son murdered him and took over the business.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:25 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 31:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 Turned out to be something good.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:26 But they- they're-

Joe Rogan 31:27 People are crazy, huh?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:28 It's... The good thing about... I mean, it's interesting what's good and what's not, you know, what's provable, it's- it's very interesting. Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 31:34 What's...... they just r- they, they, people always say that it's a part of the National Institute of Healthcare, is that what it is? Uh, a part of their recommended program, but it's not anymore. They're, they removed it. There's not, there's no real evidence that shows it works.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:49 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 31:50 The thing about it is, though, it's like, I just adjusted myself.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:53 Like I adjusted my knuckles.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:54 That's literally what they're doing, what they're doing to your back.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 31:57 I've had for whatever, you know, over a hundred fights or whatever, and had my neck jacked up and-

Joe Rogan 32:01 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:01 ... wrestling and shots, and I've had pretty significant injury where I couldn't, like, change lanes and turn and drive and then go get adjusted and be back to square one.

Joe Rogan 32:09 I think, uh, I've done-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:10 So it has helped me, for sure.

Joe Rogan 32:10 ... the same thing with massage.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:12 I think there's something to people touching you and working on stuff and loo- and loosening you up-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:17 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:17 ... in a way that you can't do. And I'm not saying that there's not good chiropractors out there that really understand all the other things like cold laser therapy-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:24 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 32:24 ... and different kinds of manipulation in terms of, like, you know, muscle stretching and, um, um, what is that type of, uh, rolfing? Rolfing is legit.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:33 What's that?

Joe Rogan 32:34 It's a brutal massage.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:36 I've seen that here too.

Joe Rogan 32:36 Just a brutal, brutal m- massage. But it's one of those things where it breaks everything down and then after it's over, everything's very loose.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:44 And there's, there's a lot of chiropractors that are really good physical therapists too.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:47 But just the, the underlying principles of what-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 32:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:51 ... the chiropractic medical practice is, it started off with nonsense. The guy thought he could fix everything by adjusting you. "Oh, something wrong with your eyesight? Let me fix it."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:01 Yeah, there's gonna be limits for sure.

Joe Rogan 33:03 "Got bad feet? Let me fix it."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:03 "I'm gonna crack your neck and you're not gonna have bad breath anymore."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:05 Yeah, yeah, things like-

Joe Rogan 33:06 That's stupid.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:07 Things like-

Joe Rogan 33:07 But if he tells you to believe it, people are like, "Oh, nice. I do."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:09 The power of belief is huge.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 33:10 That's part of the problem-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:12 That's it.

TJ Dillashaw 33:12 ... is that what it's one of the things they prey on and one of the things-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:14 Ha.

TJ Dillashaw 33:14 ... that they use as, and then not necessarily, there's, there's levels to this wh- whole, you know, thing. It's not just regular chiropractors.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:20 There are levels.

Joe Rogan 33:21 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:21 There's, you know, there's different kinds of "healers"- Yes, sir. ... that have, like, different systems that they think they can push down the middle of your back and cure your pancreas.

TJ Dillashaw 33:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:30 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:30 So much horse shit.

TJ Dillashaw 33:31 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:32 But it's not real. You know? But the, but there are a bunch of things you can do that are real and massage is one of them. Massage is, is, it's absolutely fact that it's helped loosen people up and relax people. And just something about being manipulated like that, like if somebody really digging their elbow into your tissue and- Yeah. ... loosening everything up. We got this fucking Tim Tam. You ever use one of these?

TJ Dillashaw 33:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 33:55 I have a, I have a Tim Tam and I have the, uh, Theragun as well too.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 33:58 For Ross, send us-

TJ Dillashaw 33:59 This is the mother f- yes, for Ross.

Joe Rogan 34:00 Send one to Ross. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 34:01 I think I have yours. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:01 That was that one? Okay, cool. Yeah. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 34:03 He probably doesn't have it, but I have his.

Joe Rogan 34:04 That's right. Yeah. That thing is the shit.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:06 That thing is amazing.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:07 Firas, thank you.

Joe Rogan 34:08 Oh, yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:08 Firas Alhabbii in the house.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:09 He sent me one of those.

Joe Rogan 34:10 You have, like, anything that's, like, knotted up and really bothering you, you hammer it with that fucking thing.

TJ Dillashaw 34:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:15 And then afterwards it's like, "Ooh."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:16 One of my students made one of those out of a little, uh, driller, a gun.

TJ Dillashaw 34:20 A saw?

Joe Rogan 34:20 Oh, yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:21 Yes, I was gonna say. Yeah. Put a tennis ball or something on it. You're like, "Wow."

Joe Rogan 34:22 That's essentially what this is.

TJ Dillashaw 34:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 34:24 I mean, it's just the same kinda motor that's going up and down.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:26 (inhales) It's like, "Don't buy that. That guy, you make this thing for $30." Uh, I'm good. Just getting... Wear the fucking leg off. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:32 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 34:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:34 So when you guys are doing camp, do you move down to California for the... What do you do, six or eight weeks? How many weeks are you doing?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:40 Uh...

TJ Dillashaw 34:41 I do a lot. I probably do more than I probably should. But I mean, I almost do camp before I get into camp kind of thing.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:46 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 34:46 I like to get-

Joe Rogan 34:47 You get yourself in shape?

TJ Dillashaw 34:48 Yeah, I like to be in shape when camp starts, you know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:49 It's always developing new things.

TJ Dillashaw 34:50 I would say this camp, Duane came out, like, started coming out nine weeks before the fight, maybe 10, nine.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:56 Yeah. It was a little extra, more than two months. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 34:58 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 34:58 But-

TJ Dillashaw 34:58 And he would do three days, he'd come out, fly out.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:02 Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Or no, sorry, I'm sorry, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So be out here three days, back home four days.

Joe Rogan 35:07 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 35:07 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:07 Splitting time.

Joe Rogan 35:08 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:08 But it worked out well. I, I, with that, I was able to find a... which I was already aware of... Slow down, motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 35:14 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:14 Sorry, I get excited.

TJ Dillashaw 35:15 You're doing great.

Joe Rogan 35:16 No problems.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:16 I got my notepad right here.

TJ Dillashaw 35:17 People's life in the corner.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:19 Slow down.

Joe Rogan 35:19 People are like, "Duane's, I gotta talk slower today."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:21 I'm gonna talk slower. People always complain I talk too fast.

TJ Dillashaw 35:23 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:23 I'm gonna talk slower.

TJ Dillashaw 35:24 But you get a lot of information in in that one minute at a corner time.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:27 See, that, you know what, that's what I talked about 'cause that's why I talk fast.

Joe Rogan 35:30 That's true.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 That's true.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:30 This is why I'm wired, why I talk fast. I got about 30 seconds to talk and relay information, which is also-

Joe Rogan 35:35 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:35 ... why I have the actual system and, and code all the, the drills and combinations so I can condense it, right?

Joe Rogan 35:40 Right.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:40 I don't want to say, "Jab, cross, hook, cross, three." And that came from box, right?

TJ Dillashaw 35:43 For instance, you can get in the corner for my AC Tamura fight, tell me what to do, and I walk out there and 30 seconds later I knock him out.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:48 Yeah. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 35:48 Whatever it is, you know? Like-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:49 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 35:49 ... because you're able to get the information off and there's a system to it.

Joe Rogan 35:52 Yep.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 35:52 Laying out, mapping. There's, there's routines and there's, uh, patterns of success, you know. Uh, there are high percentage drills and combinations that have been proven to be successful. Well, how about we just keep practicing those? Obviously it's up to the athlete to find the timing, distance, and accuracy to pull them off, but-

TJ Dillashaw 36:05 And you have to believe.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 36:06 ... there they are. Yeah, the part, the belief, right?

TJ Dillashaw 36:08 You have, you have, well, you have to believe in the system too. Like, I can't be like, like if I didn't believe exactly what Duane was telling me or that he can see it, that I know he can see it because he's good at it, like, why are you really gonna go out there and, and do what he says?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 36:18 Yeah, that's one thing I had with Boss too. Whenever he gave me information, I did not doubt it at all, as I knew he's been there and done that. And it wasn't stuff that he felt he would do, it was stuff that he knew that I should do, right?

TJ Dillashaw 36:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:28 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 36:29 And, and I feel I understand TJ and I can give him the proper information for the proper time. But also I know when to sit back and let him flow as well, right? And when to, when to chipe in and give him information. And he's really good about, you know, receiving information as a case in point, the first fight with Cody between the rounds. We had to drastically change things and what we needed to change was just the timing of, of our attack. It's pretty simple.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 36:49 So I, to me, fighting is now... I, I don't, I don't think I know it all. I mean, I know I don't know it all, but it's all I know and, and I know a lot, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 36:58 Mm-hmm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 36:58 But I was going back to earlier, traveling out here three days a week and back home four days. Again, I found a really good... Fuck, slow down, motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 37:06 You're doing great.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 37:06 Back to square one. Uh, was, uh, I found a good rhythm of us as far as pulling off information, as far as the pads, the class sparring, and it's always like we're layering it up, we're practicing it in class. Now we're sparring with it and then going back to what we need to work on. So I found a really good pyramid to, for TJ to retain or for anyone to retain the information, kind of condensing into three days. It's, it was, it was really fun. It was... I look at it as like, as an experiment, what's the most optimal way for someone to perform and fight safe and effectively?

Joe Rogan 37:38 ... I just, it means it's fun. There's- I love this shit. ... there's a lot of people that wanna go to these big giant super camps, and I know, you know, w- with Alpha Male you were in a big giant super camp.

TJ Dillashaw 37:46 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 37:47 What you're doing now is very different. And that's, this is something that obviously Stipe Miocic-

TJ Dillashaw 37:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:52 ... was doing. There's a lot of other fighters that were doing, that are doing, where a lot of it is based around them. Mighty Mouse, in particular. That's, uh, he's another one. I mean, there are uh, uh un- unquestionably professional fighters around them.

TJ Dillashaw 38:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:04 But it's not like they're in a building with six other world champions and there's a buncha, you know, savages that are coming up that, you know, and everybody's trying to kill each other. It's a, it's a different, it's a different setup. Like, it's a lot of it is geared towards you.

TJ Dillashaw 38:18 It- it- it is. And it's just the natural way it kind of happened this time.

Joe Rogan 38:22 Is this better? What is better?

TJ Dillashaw 38:23 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 38:23 Is it better to be in the doghouse with all the Alpha Male guys, where it's all just animals trying to kill each other? Quality-

TJ Dillashaw 38:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:30 ... over quantity.

TJ Dillashaw 38:30 Yes, if it's, if it's not for money. You know what I mean? When these big gyms turn into something that wants to make money-

Joe Rogan 38:36 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 38:37 ... then the real martial arts comes out of it. When you have coaches and people running it that are really going to not wanna ... Like, I have a gym, the Training Lab. So I'm- I'm very fortunate that I have Steve Martin, a guy that's been-

Joe Rogan 38:49 Steve's awesome.

TJ Dillashaw 38:49 ... he's put his heart and soul into this thing to keep this building open, 'cause we're not making money. We're not, we're not, we're not all have ... We don't have a ... It's pretty much private. I teach a kids class and we do adult boot, uh, bootcamp kind of things, just to turn the lights on. Just so that bills are paid and there's some sponsors here and there to pay the coaches. Like, we're losing money and, and thank God that we have a guy like Steve Martin that's willing to see our dream. That we wanna build a team that is not based around money, that it's, uh, um ... Whatever money we end up making from the gym is going, every dollar to the coaches. You know? Like ...

Joe Rogan 39:17 Hmm, that's great.

TJ Dillashaw 39:18 I don't wanna make, I don't wanna make money. I don't want that awkward relationship between me and Juan Archuleta that I'm making money off him, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 39:23 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 39:23 'Cause then you get that weird business relationship.

Joe Rogan 39:25 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 39:25 Rather than us just having a real relationship, like me wanting him to get better, him wanting me to get better. Which I've felt like maybe it used to kind of be that way at Alpha Male, but it's turned into a money thing to where it ... I don't know, man, it wasn't ... Like, there wasn't like ... Before, and even before we got Duane, we had no coach. It was just us coaching each other kind of thing, you know? Um-

Joe Rogan 39:44 Yeah, that's not usually the best thing.

TJ Dillashaw 39:46 No. We were just beating each other up. We were sparring four or five days a week. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:50 Really? (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 39:50 Yeah, dude. I mean, I picked up stuff fast because of it, you know. Like, you had to learn how to fight.

Joe Rogan 39:54 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 39:54 Um, and I'm aggressive and I like that stuff, but it's not smart. You know?

Joe Rogan 39:58 Right, in terms of like your overall wellbeing.

TJ Dillashaw 40:00 Health.

Joe Rogan 40:00 Care, health.

TJ Dillashaw 40:01 You know, longevity in the sport.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 40:03 You know. Um, yeah, so I- I- I've control... I- I've turned into a real professional athlete sport instead of it just going to the gym and going ham. Like, I can go everywhere for my diet, everywhere from the way I work, the times I work out, my schedule, my recovery. Um, hav- luckily I'm having Duane that's able to, to travel out with me. Um, I've built a, I've built an awesome facility right now with Mark Muñoz circling back around being a coach, Daryl Christian, Felipe de Monica, and all these guys. Like, it's not money driven so it's, it's doing great right now. We're- we're- we're awesome. We're- we're- we're doing awesome, so.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Yeah, he really does have a really good crew of people around him, in- in all aspects. And this is in wha- ... It's not your blend of here there?

TJ Dillashaw 40:43 We're in Anaheim.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Ana- oh, beautiful.

TJ Dillashaw 40:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Mm-hmm. That's great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when the UFC's in Anaheim, you're a hop, skip, and a jump away.

TJ Dillashaw 40:49 Oh yeah, we're right there. I mean, even fighting in LA was nice. I mean, it ... You know-

Joe Rogan 40:52 Oh, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 40:53 ... didn't have to fly nowhere. It was cool.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 40:54 Fight in your backyard.

Joe Rogan 40:55 Dan Lambert did- did all this before anybody. I mean, Dan Lambert, in terms of like throwing money at things and- and putting American Top Team together. Oh, yeah. That's right. Top Team, yep. I mean, that guy, he- he spent a fuck load of money.

TJ Dillashaw 41:07 (laughs) Oh, they keep texting me.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Putting, put fighters on salary, and- and then recently built a giant place with dormitories and everything.

TJ Dillashaw 41:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:13 You know, that guy, uh, out of all the people, he's a, probably the pioneer of digging deep into his wallet and putting together a crazy gym setup like that.

TJ Dillashaw 41:22 Yeah. He's been in there.

Joe Rogan 41:22 Yeah. But it's a dif- different kind of crew.

TJ Dillashaw 41:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:25 You know, you go down there and them- there are a- a ton of world champions. There's a ton of professional athletes. And, you know, it's n- you're not necessarily gonna get the singular specified training that you're getting right now.

TJ Dillashaw 41:35 Yeah, for sure. And then but we're also really so ... Yeah, you could be really good and we want you in our gym but if you have the right personality as well too.

Joe Rogan 41:41 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 41:41 It's not only about your skill to come and train with our gym and be a pro athlete there, but you also gotta vibe with us. You know?

Joe Rogan 41:47 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 41:47 Uh, if we don't have the vibe then it's all ... Egos are gonna get involved and the gym's-

Joe Rogan 41:50 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 41:51 ... gonna split up. This guy's gonna go here, this guy's gonna go there, so.

Joe Rogan 41:53 How do you determine that? Do you get to know them first and then let them in the gym?

TJ Dillashaw 41:56 Yeah, we always let everyone in to see how they're going. If they don't work out, then we tell them like, "Hey man, this isn't the spot for you."

Joe Rogan 42:01 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 42:01 You know, "We don't, we don't have a open spot for you."

Joe Rogan 42:03 You can see it- Right. ... though th- with- with the drills and the dutch drills- Mm-hmm. ... and just the drilling in general, how caring somebody is, right? Right. The- there's- there's four rules I ask my guys to follow, and they're all rules that revolve around accountability. It's show up on time, get better, get tired, take care of your partner. You do those four simple things and we're good. It's pretty simple. Mm, those are very good rules.

TJ Dillashaw 42:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:23 Yeah, it's- it's- it's that sport that attracts people who are troubled.

TJ Dillashaw 42:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 Yeah. Agreed, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 42:29 You know?

Joe Rogan 42:29 The ronins, the misfits. Yeah, and then a- an- It's good for what happens. ... lot of people that have been abused that wanna get people back. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of that. You remember a lot of ... When- when I was younger, the more aggressive, meaner people, when you would find out more about them, you'd find out there was child abuse. Dad used to beat them up. Stepdad beat them up. There was always something that they were trying to get back at people for. Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 42:52 I feel like the sport is changing enough now that it's a very common thing to- kids wanna do. And so now you have-

Joe Rogan 42:56 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 42:57 ... you know-

Joe Rogan 42:57 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 42:58 ... kids with the good upbringings wanting to do it.

Joe Rogan 43:00 Yeah, it's a challenging possible career-

TJ Dillashaw 43:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:03 ... now. And- and a fighter, you know, a young kid coming up sees someone like you-

TJ Dillashaw 43:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:07 ... and they go, "Okay, look at this guy. He's two-time world champion."

TJ Dillashaw 43:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:11 "Super respectful, articulate, real friendly. Doesn't have a chip on his shoulder. Likes, you know, shaking hands and taking pictures and being around people. Oh, you don't have to be an asshole."

TJ Dillashaw 43:20 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:21 "Like, you don't have to be some-"

TJ Dillashaw 43:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:22 "... brooding asshole."

TJ Dillashaw 43:24 For sure.

Joe Rogan 43:24 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 43:25 It's something you don't wanna be.

Joe Rogan 43:25 I mean, you'll get paid for it more these days, but ... (laughs) Yeah. (laughs) That's interesting, right?

TJ Dillashaw 43:29 Yeah. You- you get paid more for being a complete asshole, you know. And make ... If you don't mind making a fool of yourself-

Joe Rogan 43:34 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 43:34 ... then you'll get paid more, you know. But-

Joe Rogan 43:35 Well, like Colby.

TJ Dillashaw 43:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 Yeah, Col- I mean-

TJ Dillashaw 43:37 Like to the extreme, to where like, "What? Come on."

Joe Rogan 43:39 Colby's hilarious.

TJ Dillashaw 43:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 I don't know, I think it's funny, man.

TJ Dillashaw 43:41 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 43:41 When he actually went to the fucking White House and put the- the- the thing on Donald Trump's desk, gave him the belt. I was like, "That is hilarious. He actually did it."

TJ Dillashaw 43:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:49 You know what'd really, really be funny? If it turned out this whole time he was a Democrat and this was all just a big act.

TJ Dillashaw 43:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:55 (laughs) And really is super pro-gay rights and-

TJ Dillashaw 43:57 So if it would've been a Dem- if it would've been-

Joe Rogan 43:58 ... pro-women's rights.

TJ Dillashaw 43:59 ... a Democrat in the, uh, office he'd be, uh, Democrat then? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:02 Whoever's in office is who he's gonna be. Well, he's just doing it only specifically just for promotion.

TJ Dillashaw 44:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:08 Him and Tyron Woodley's gonna be crazy.That's gonna be crazy.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:12 I... So you know the, the videos on the internet? The one, uh, Black dude that says, "I'm Tyrone," and then "Fuck this," or "Fuck that," whatever? You, you know the-

Joe Rogan 44:19 No.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:19 ... the internet guy? Oh, they're hilarious. Can you pull up one of those videos of Tyrone?

Joe Rogan 44:22 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:22 They're so funny.

Joe Rogan 44:24 What, what do... What, who's... How would you search for Tyrone? The Black guy?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:25 He just... So it would have been funny... Oh, I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 44:26 Yeah. You gotta explain what the fuck you're talking about.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:28 So-

Joe Rogan 44:28 Is it... So there's a... There, there, there's a... There's a... There's... "Tyrone," "Black guy."

TJ Dillashaw 44:31 What are my search answers in here? Right now?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:31 "Fuck Tyrone." He's hilarious, right? Watch. He'll pull one up, but, uh...

TJ Dillashaw 44:35 (laughs) It would have been funny...

Joe Rogan 44:36 Is it Tommy Toehold?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:37 Uh, no. He... Do you know what I'm talking about, Jamie?

TJ Dillashaw 44:39 You do?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:40 But, uh...

TJ Dillashaw 44:40 Thank goodness because I have no idea. (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:41 It would have been funny as hell. Okay, so watch this first.

TJ Dillashaw 44:43 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:43 Watch one of these.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Okay. Give me some... Oh, give me some...

Guest 44:46 Fuck I don't know what's going on.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Hold on. B- Bring it from the beginning.

TJ Dillashaw 44:48 Oh, this is a... This is a long compilation of it.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 44:51 He just like kind of walks around and bullies people sorta.

Guest 44:54 And that's how you make a video.

TJ Dillashaw 44:56 Kind of a joke.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:56 Is that... Is that him, though?

Joe Rogan 44:58 Yeah, yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 44:58 That's not the regular Tyrone, huh?

TJ Dillashaw 44:59 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:01 This is another one.

TJ Dillashaw 45:01 It's a different Tyrone.

Joe Rogan 45:02 This is a different guy?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:03 Yeah, this is a different one. The, the other one's... He's a different guy.

Guest 45:06 So listen, make no stupid-

Joe Rogan 45:07 I thought you just tried to hit me.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:08 No, he'll do a... He'll go-

TJ Dillashaw 45:09 I mean, you just type in "Tyrone Black dude" into the internet, I mean, you're gonna get a lot of videos.

Joe Rogan 45:13 What does this have to do with Tyron Woodley?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:14 It's hilarious. But... So it would have been funny 'cause if... Tha- that- that's not the best clip, uh, 'cause if he would have won the belt... Or no, he won the belt, right? "I'm Tyrone and this is my motherfucking belt!" So if you watch these videos and an actual good video of the Tyrone and if-

TJ Dillashaw 45:26 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:26 ... Tyrone would do that in the cage, I was... I was... I've been thinking about this for a while, that shit would have been so fucking funny, but it's not funny 'cause you don't know the damn videos. Shit. Jamie, pull that up.

Joe Rogan 45:35 Mm- mm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:35 Like that time when he went... That's it. He just...

TJ Dillashaw 45:37 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:37 I watched the Rogan show. That wasn't the guy, you li-... I didn't mean to steal your line, Mr. Rogan. Sorry, sir.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Ah. That's hilarious.

TJ Dillashaw 45:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:43 Yeah, he, he was almost after he won, like, like, nothing happened.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:47 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 45:47 Well, he... He just seemed new, right?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:49 I fought everybody. UFC wants me to fight. But it's... This is weird, you know? Is this another one?

Joe Rogan 45:52 That's him.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:53 Is that the same guy?

Joe Rogan 45:54 Yeah. This is the one where he gets beat up for saying he's gonna-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:57 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 45:57 ... fuck somebody's wife or something like that.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:58 Oh.

Guest 45:58 I'm Tyrone.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 45:59 Here it is.

Guest 46:00 And fuck this Liu Kang-looking motherfucker. I'm here to fuck your wife. Long dick style. What you looking at him for?

TJ Dillashaw 46:05 Fuckin' serious?

Guest 46:06 Huh? What's up?

TJ Dillashaw 46:07 What's up?

Guest 46:07 You wanna make a move? We'll do something then. Do something. Well, I ain't scared. I'm Tyrone.

TJ Dillashaw 46:14 Yo.

Guest 46:14 And fuck these kids, too.

Joe Rogan 46:15 What happened to that one? I don't... I, I didn't, I didn't make the video.

Guest 46:18 I'm here to fuck your wife.

TJ Dillashaw 46:18 Oh. Oh.

Guest 46:18 Long dick style.

Joe Rogan 46:19 This is, like, terrible editing.

Guest 46:21 Fuck you guys.

Joe Rogan 46:21 He just does funny shit, right? But-

TJ Dillashaw 46:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:23 It, it seems like he's just mean and stealing. I don't think that's funny-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:26 ... Dwayne.

TJ Dillashaw 46:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:26 No, no, they're funny. They're funny.

TJ Dillashaw 46:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:28 He's a mean stealer.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:30 Oh, here we go.

Guest 46:31 Back up. Back up.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Holy shit.

Guest 46:31 Get that camera outta my face.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Okay, let's... All right, kill this.

Guest 46:34 I'm not a fuckin' star.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:34 Not as funny as I thought. Sorry, guys.

TJ Dillashaw 46:36 I don't find this even remotely funny.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:37 Shit.

Joe Rogan 46:37 It seems like a bad sketch.

Guest 46:39 Some of 'em... Maybe they're... Maybe they're fighting out of a spaceship.

Joe Rogan 46:41 Anyway, Tyrone Woodley is not that guy.

Guest 46:43 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:43 No, he's not. But it would have been funny.

Joe Rogan 46:43 Although if he was, it would probably sell more tickets. That's for sure.

TJ Dillashaw 46:46 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:46 Probably. Yeah. See, that's where it tied in from like the Colby approach.

Joe Rogan 46:49 'Cause he's, like, super calm and respectful afterwards.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:51 It's hard to believe he was just in a cage fight.

TJ Dillashaw 46:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:54 Dude, he shut all that Darren Till hype up quick.

TJ Dillashaw 46:56 I knew he was gonna win.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:57 I would like to talk to Tyrone-

TJ Dillashaw 46:59 Did you-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 46:59 ... or Duke and see if... Sorry to interrupt.

TJ Dillashaw 47:00 No, go ahead.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:01 Uh, and 'cause how he caught him 'cause Darren Till... I made a video about this, how Darren Till typically likes to feint and pump and get the guy backing up, get them out of position, and then land the cross, you know, from open stance, from southpaw, and there's a, a slight delay between those two to three punches that he throws and I'm wondering if Tyrone did his research and seen that.

Joe Rogan 47:19 Tyrin.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:20 Tyrin. Is it... Does he say Tyrin? Not Tyrone?

TJ Dillashaw 47:21 It's not Tyrone.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:21 'Cause the damn Ty-... Mr. Woodley.

Joe Rogan 47:23 Right? It's Tyrin Woodley.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:25 Tyrin? Tyrin? I said T- Tyrin.

Joe Rogan 47:26 There's no E.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:26 So that... Now the joke wouldn't have been as funny.

TJ Dillashaw 47:28 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:29 Tyrin. So that's what you're saying.

Joe Rogan 47:31 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:31 Tyrin.

TJ Dillashaw 47:33 Beast mode. (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:33 And I'm wondering if he... If he... If you read that from watching the videos previously and seen that little gap in the... In his combinations and was able to beat him to the punch-

Joe Rogan 47:40 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 47:40 ... or if he just duck and chucked. I'm curious to see if that was a... something that they trained and, and sought out or... 'Cause that takes balls, right? Like, he's coming in with his strongest punch, his cross, that he's knocked many people out with and he just stepped into it and beat him to the punch. That, that takes balls.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Well, Tyrin, that's his... He always does that strategy of standing against the fence or close to the fence and then when a guy's moving, he counters.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:01 I mean, he did that with Josh Koscheck. He's done that with a lot of guys.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:05 And Rory MacDonald was the only guy to f- shut that down.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:08 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:08 He figured out a way to shut it down.

TJ Dillashaw 48:09 He stayed long.

Joe Rogan 48:10 Stayed long, used a lot of front kicks.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:12 A lot of jabs. Keeped... Kept his, uh, left hand up high to block, uh, the right hand, you know?

TJ Dillashaw 48:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:17 The big right hand. But man, Tyrin's just faster than him, way faster than him.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:21 And... Yeah, close distance, so quick.

Joe Rogan 48:23 Close distance, like, lightning. Landed that right hand, beat the shit out of him on the ground. It was just shocking to me that Darren didn't know what to do when he was on his back. Like, in terms of, like, when...

TJ Dillashaw 48:33 That's how I... That's how I thought the fight was gonna go. Like, him just being on top of him the whole fight.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 48:37 I thought Tyrone was just gonna... Tyrone's gonna out- ... wrestle him and be on top, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:40 Well, I thought maybe that was part of the strategy too, especially when you saw them warming up 'cause Tyrin was doing, like, a lot of, like, exchanges and then shoots for a double or closes the distance, level changes. Like, they did that when, uh, he was working with, um, uh, boxing coaches as well. He would hit the, hit the mitts and then move in a level change.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 48:57 Yeah, blend it together.

Joe Rogan 48:58 But I was just, um, like, Till didn't understand that Darce was coming or didn't know, but then you gotta wonder how battered was he?

TJ Dillashaw 49:05 Mm.

Joe Rogan 49:05 Took that big shot, took a lot of hard elbows on the ground. How much was he really there?

TJ Dillashaw 49:09 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:10 That's the beauty... I'm sorry? Shit.

Joe Rogan 49:11 No, I was gonna say because that Darce was a mile away.

TJ Dillashaw 49:13 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:13 I mean, it was there and then it was there and then he cinched it up deep. It was never like... There was never any separation.

TJ Dillashaw 49:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:19 Never pulling the hands back to-

TJ Dillashaw 49:21 I think Tyrin's a lot stronger than him too, able to hold him in that cron-... Like, hold that position, you know.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:25 He looks strong.

Joe Rogan 49:25 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 49:25 Yeah, he's a freak.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:26 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 49:26 He's a beast.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:27 The reason why he's the champion. But I think that's the... Well, the way I choose to look at it anyway is having a checklist, right? If you were to build up a mixed martial artist, how much information should they know standing, wrestling, and then on the ground?

Joe Rogan 49:39 Mm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:39 And they should just check, check, check and know all these basics should be covered before you go fight.

Joe Rogan 49:44 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:44 That's the beauty, beauty in having a curriculum and, again, a checklist.

Joe Rogan 49:47 No, I absolutely agree with you. I think, you know, understanding... I mean, the days of just, like, being able to just fight someone-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 49:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:53 ... and not know anything about them, that seems kinda foolish.

TJ Dillashaw 49:56 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Like, seems like a massive advantage to study. Like, when Cowboy fought Darren Till, he decided to not watch any tape on him. He's like, "You know, I hear he's a striker good. I love to strike." Like, "Whoa, okay. May- might wanna watch this striker."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 50:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:10 "That..."

TJ Dillashaw 50:10 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 50:11 This one."

TJ Dillashaw 50:11 I'll watch tape in the beginning with Dwayne, but then I kinda let him continue from there, you know?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 50:15 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 50:15 And I trust his judgment-

Joe Rogan 50:16 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 50:16 ... on everything.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 50:17 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 50:17 Um, and then when I'm out of fight camp, since... 'Cause sometimes when you watch, uh, tape in fight camp-... like, it can mess with people's heads, you know. Like, maybe, maybe Cowboy's getting too nervous, and then when he's wi- it gives him anxiety to watch the fight-

Joe Rogan 50:28 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 50:28 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 50:29 Right, right.

TJ Dillashaw 50:29 So you need to have a, if that's the case, you know, have a coach that's willing to, that you trust to do that for you.

Joe Rogan 50:34 That's a good point.

TJ Dillashaw 50:35 You know? 'Cause I mean, dude, it's a mental... This fucking sport's a mental mind fuck, man.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 50:39 You know?

Joe Rogan 50:40 Of course.

TJ Dillashaw 50:40 And whatever works the best for you is what you gotta figure out.

Joe Rogan 50:43 But is it better for you to fight someone like Cody that you have all this animosity and beef towards and all this shit-talking 'cause you get super hyped up and motivated every day? Or is it better to fight someone who you have a lot of respect for, or it's just a good challenge?

TJ Dillashaw 51:00 I think, uh, you gotta learn to div- like, to be the same person for every fight.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Mm.

TJ Dillashaw 51:04 You know, I think it's, like, control those emotions, you know.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 51:07 Even though there was all that coming in, like, "I'm nervous to fight." You know? Like, "Forget all the bullshit." You know, and I had to learn that through my career. I had to learn to take emotion out of it. I mean, even in sparring still, you know, like-

Joe Rogan 51:17 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 51:17 ... Dwayne's always telling me, "Control my emotion, uh, controlled aggression." You know?

Joe Rogan 51:20 Mm.

TJ Dillashaw 51:20 'Cause you hit me, I wanna hit you back. I'm, I'm very competitive. You know?

Joe Rogan 51:23 Right, right.

TJ Dillashaw 51:24 So it's something you have to learn how to control, and I've had to do that throughout my career. Um, and I think everyone has to learn to control either to let go or to pull back, you know. Like, really control that emotion to be the same person every fight, you know, um, mentally, mentally. Not the same person every fight, but mentally, like, in your own head, the same person. But technically, you need to be able to switch it up.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Tha- the mental aspect of it is probably the thing that holds more people back than anything. Like, we all know of guys that are just monsters in the gym-

TJ Dillashaw 51:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:53 ... and for whatever it was when they would go to compete, they just could never be their full self.

TJ Dillashaw 51:59 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 52:00 TJ does better in the cage-

TJ Dillashaw 52:02 Yeah.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 52:02 ... than he does in the gym.

TJ Dillashaw 52:03 Yeah. (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 52:04 Yeah. I was, I was... Well, I did better in the, in the gym than in the cage.

TJ Dillashaw 52:06 Mm.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 52:07 He was the opposite.

Joe Rogan 52:07 What do you think it is that makes you do better?

TJ Dillashaw 52:09 I love it. I don't know, man, I've just taught myself to love this shit. Like, I'm, I'm, uh, I- I don't know. When I get out there, it's just like, I wanna be there, you know. Like, I know everyone's nervous and, like, they're ex- like, it's the highest highs, but I used to be so nervous that I'd forget, like, what happened in the fight, you know. But throughout my career, I think after the Mike Easton fights when I really started to, like, hone in, or during the Mike Easton fights when I really started to hone in and have fun, and, uh, just realized, like, "Fuck this shit, man." Like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? You're gonna-

Joe Rogan 52:35 Mm.

TJ Dillashaw 52:35 ... get knocked out?

Joe Rogan 52:36 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 52:36 Go for it, you know. Have some fun.

Joe Rogan 52:37 Where is Mike Easton?

TJ Dillashaw 52:39 I don't know. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 52:40 That guy hasn't been around for a while.

Guest 52:41 Question mark, question mark.

TJ Dillashaw 52:41 Yeah, I'm not really sure.

Joe Rogan 52:43 There's a possible super fight with you and Henry Cejudo-

TJ Dillashaw 52:46 Hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:46 ... that's being talked about.

TJ Dillashaw 52:47 Hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 Would you fight him at 125?

TJ Dillashaw 52:49 25s, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:50 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 52:50 Absolutely. I don't want no excuses that I'm the bigger man. And-

Joe Rogan 52:52 But he probably is bigger than you, quite honestly.

TJ Dillashaw 52:55 Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like, I... 20-

Joe Rogan 52:56 He struggles to get to 30, uh, from, uh, to, down to 25. I mean-

TJ Dillashaw 52:59 25-

Joe Rogan 53:00 ... he's way over 35.

TJ Dillashaw 53:00 ... especially with the coach I have now, Sam Calveito, it's like w- I, I was told I was gonna fight, um, Demetrious Johnson the summer before I fought Cody the first time because Cody had to pull out 'cause of his back. Within three weeks of time, I got down to waking up to 140 pounds by changing my, the way I'm working out, changing my calories, changing my macronutrients, and, uh, my supple- like, just going full bore. Like, I was able to start waking up in the morning 140 pounds within three weeks.

Joe Rogan 53:23 And so right now, you're about 10 plus pounds heavier than that.

TJ Dillashaw 53:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:27 And how much time would you need, like, if they said, "Hey, December 31st, New Year's Eve, super fight, what?"

TJ Dillashaw 53:32 Yeah, my coach, my coach always wants, like, the, like, actual... Like, he told me, like, before or after my last fight, I mean, it's 16 weeks, but, I mean, obviously we could do it a lot fast-... I could have made 25s this last fight, um, with how-

Joe Rogan 53:41 How much water I had. I mean, the, the, the hydration that he's got me going on when we wanna get close to a fight too is, it's, uh, easiest... I, I don't do s- I don't do, do baths anymore. Like, I, to make weight, I walked on the treadmill with plastics. For how long?

TJ Dillashaw 53:55 Mm. The day of, I'd say 30 minutes. I sat in the sauna a little bit and then walked-

Joe Rogan 54:00 So you're only losing, like, four or five pounds most, right?

TJ Dillashaw 54:03 Yeah, in the morning? Yeah, probably, like, three or four or five pounds, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:05 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 54:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:07 That's, that's a massive benefit to you in terms of your conditioning.

TJ Dillashaw 54:10 Oh, huge.

Joe Rogan 54:11 'Cause you're not, you're not compromised.

TJ Dillashaw 54:12 In having fluid on your brain, uh, your, your cardio-

Joe Rogan 54:15 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 54:15 ... um, your muscular contraction and endurance. I mean, everything. I mean, when you deplete yourself like that, like you're talking about Darren Till maybe cutting too much weight.

Joe Rogan 54:22 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 54:22 That could definitely be a possibility, you know.

Joe Rogan 54:23 For sure. I mean, he's huge.

TJ Dillashaw 54:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:25 Till's a big guy-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 54:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:26 ... to, to get down to 170.

TJ Dillashaw 54:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Yeah, I mean, that is the... It's the, the t- trying to find the right balance where you're big for the weight class, but you're not diminishing yourself really drastically to get down to your weight class. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 54:39 And the Henry Cejudo thing also entertains me so much 'cause he's a gold medalist, you know.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 54:43 He wants to, he wants to claim himself as the greatest combat athlete ever. "I'm a UFC champion, I'm a gold medalist." Like-

Joe Rogan 54:48 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 54:48 ... "I'll go out there and beat you in wrestling. MMA wrestling's completely different. I'm the better athlete, I'm gonna... I could beat him anywhere. I know I can, watching him fight." Um, so, uh, that's why I'm very excited about it. I think it's the greatest thing for my name right now. Um, I, I, I'm very... It excites me a lot. It excites me a lot too to be able to show the science behind not only myself, but my coach and, and, and Dwayne and his system. Like, every, like, I'm f- I'm all in, dude.

Joe Rogan 55:10 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 55:10 Whatever we're doing, I'm 100% in.

Joe Rogan 55:12 He is.

TJ Dillashaw 55:12 I don't take any shortcuts, and, uh, I wanna show that. I wanna show that I can make 25s and be th- my best ever as well.

Joe Rogan 55:18 Now Demetrious is injured, right?

TJ Dillashaw 55:21 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:21 He's, he's out for a little while.

TJ Dillashaw 55:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:23 So this is one of the reasons why the talk of the super fight is coming up.

TJ Dillashaw 55:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Like, it is... But Demetrious is gonna need a few months, so he can't have an immediate rematch.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 55:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:30 So...

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 55:31 Perfect.

Joe Rogan 55:32 Have they talked to you about it? Proposed?

TJ Dillashaw 55:34 You know, there's been some- there's nothing been, like, serious, but there's been, like, uh, hints. And, like, we did our media tour together, and they put us on camera together and had us-

Joe Rogan 55:41 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 55:41 ... talking shit to each other.

Joe Rogan 55:43 Oh, nice.

TJ Dillashaw 55:44 I mean, they didn't, like, they didn't say that, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 55:46 What's gonna happen.

TJ Dillashaw 55:46 'Cause everything's real.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 55:47 Everything we do is real, but it's like, "Oh shit, this is what you guys want."

Joe Rogan 55:49 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 55:50 You know, and like, "You really think you can beat me? Then fuck you, man, let's do this shit." You know, like, that's where I get my motivation from, from fighting, is, is not the anger, not l- it's, it's the, the competition.

Joe Rogan 56:00 And does he wanna go to 35? Is that-

TJ Dillashaw 56:02 He told me face to face he's willing to do at 25s.

Joe Rogan 56:05 25.

TJ Dillashaw 56:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:05 Mm.

TJ Dillashaw 56:06 Yeah, that's what he first said-

Joe Rogan 56:07 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 56:07 ... after the fight is that he wanted to, he wanted to-... the super fight, right?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:09 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 56:09 That's what he, his idea is. So he said come to 35s. So I told him, I was like, "Look, if we're doing this, I'm coming to 25s." He says, "I have no problem with that."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:15 Uh-huh. He's, he's got more street credit to drop a division-

TJ Dillashaw 56:17 Street cred? (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:18 ... or to change a division. That's TJ, right? So ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:20 (laughs) Hell yeah. Yeah, it gives you more street cred, for sure.

TJ Dillashaw 56:22 For sure.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:22 For sure.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Well, it certainly doesn't do well in the title.

TJ Dillashaw 56:23 And no excuses of the bigger man. I don't want him to-

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:25 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 56:25 ... come to 35s and me whip his ass and be like, "Oh, well he's, 'cause he's a 35-pounder."

Joe Rogan 56:28 He's a 35-pounder too.

TJ Dillashaw 56:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:29 Me, I'll whip your ass with 25s. We, he, he's a huge 125er.

TJ Dillashaw 56:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:33 He really is.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:34 I mean, you take out the weight cutting, there's not much difference between you two guys.

TJ Dillashaw 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:37 And when you, Steve-

TJ Dillashaw 56:38 Other than how much better I am.

Joe Rogan 56:39 Oh, shit.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:39 Ooh. Oh, shit. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 56:41 (laughs)

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:41 I want you to run that.

Joe Rogan 56:42 But, uh, that's true.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:42 Ooh, Henry. Hang on.

TJ Dillashaw 56:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:44 Um, but when you saw him and Demetrious together, I mean, he's a much bigger person.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:48 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 56:49 Yeah, he's thick.

Joe Rogan 56:49 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 56:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:50 Yeah. He, though ... How much weight does he lose?

TJ Dillashaw 56:53 Who's that?

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:54 Sudo?

Joe Rogan 56:54 Yeah, Sudo.

TJ Dillashaw 56:55 Who's that? Who's that? I don't know. I don't know.

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 56:55 Oh, no. Good question.

Joe Rogan 56:56 He's got to be in the 50s.

TJ Dillashaw 56:58 When he shows up-

Joe Rogan 56:58 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 56:58 ... to fight week, he looks like he's cutting weight already, you know.

Joe Rogan 57:00 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 57:01 Um, when I show up to fight week, I haven't even really started yet.

Joe Rogan 57:04 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 57:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Yeah, I mean, for your s- your pace and your endurance, that's got to be a big benefit to know that your body's 100% healthy going in there in terms of, like, not being dehydrated and ... There's so many guys, you see them on the day of the weigh-in, you go, "I don't know how the fuck you're gonna fight in 24 hours."

Duane "Bang" Ludwig 57:21 Mm.

TJ Dillashaw 57:21 And I think head trauma is a lot more pre- prevalent when you're dehydrated. Like, going through camp, like, I've known some guys that have cut a lot of