JRE MMA Show #41 with TJ Dillashaw & Duane Ludwig

1. 0:00 – 2:13

   TJ & Duane join the show: gym culture, swearing, and training with regular students

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... you let me know.

   2. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:00

      Oh, cool.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      And so...

   4. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:01

      Yes, sir.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Be like, "Okay."

   6. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:03

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      "All right." And then we leave it there. (laughs)

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw0:04

      Y- yeah, I think you'd be too nervous, yeah, like you said.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Boom! And we're live. UFC motherfucking bantamweight champion, TJ Dillashaw.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw0:12

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:12

       And Duane Ludwig.

   12. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:15

       How you doing, Mr. Rogan?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       Master Splinter. What's up, buddy?

   14. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:17

       I'm awesome.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Good to see you, man.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw0:17

       Good to see you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:18

       Oh, I see you got golf shirts now, too. Look at you, you respectable motherfucker.

   18. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:21

       Gotta step up. I'm 40 now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       Oh.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw0:22

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       You gotta be respectable.

   22. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:23

       Gotta step up my game.

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw0:24

       People walk into my-

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       It's right.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw0:25

       ... dojo, and he's gotta look dressed to the nines, you know, looking like it's, uh, the job.

   26. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:28

       But there's a warning sign on the wall that says, "Explicit language."

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Oh. So you, you let people know, people are gonna be swearing-

   28. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:34

       Yes, sir.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       ... up in this bitch.

   30. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig0:35

       Yes, sir. So line up, motherfuckers.
2. 2:13 – 5:21

   Why TJ–Duane works: trust, ego-free coaching, and building a repeatable system

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:13

      You know, there's so many different approaches to training fighters.

   2. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:16

      Yes, sir.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:17

      And you obviously have hit... You guys have, like, the best fighter-trainer relationship that I know about 'cause you guys are so tight.

   4. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:25

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      It's like you guys are really a team. Whereas there's always some weird animosity with fighters and trainers, and the, the blowups are just like men and women. Like when, when men-

   6. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:34

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:34

      ... and women break up, "You fucking bitch." You know?

   8. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:36

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:37

      "You fucking, you fucking, fucking..." (growls)

   10. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:38

       Oh, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:39

       Like, the... That happens-

   12. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:40

       Yes, sir.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       ... with fi-... That makes me so sad when I see, like, fighter-trainer blowouts-

   14. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig2:45

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:45

       ... when they separate and talk shit about each other. Like, God, that's so... that's such a bummer.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw2:49

       I think it's both of them have too big of an ego. One wants to be, like, the coach, maybe coaching the fighter, wants to be more popular or whatever it may be, you know. Um, and i- just the... I don't know. Whenever, whenever... Duane came into the gym, and as soon as he was there, from the first practice, I knew we were gonna get along. He's a crazy motherfucker. He likes to go hard. Um, competitive, and that was kind of like everything I do, you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:09

       But you're also... You have a very, very well-thought-out system.

   18. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig3:13

       Yes, sir.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       Like I've been... I was very impressed with, like, just your documentation of your system, how you have all these different things worked out. Like s- these aren't, like, just hap-hap-... I mean, there's obviously creati- creativity involved-

   20. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig3:24

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       ... when an actual fight is happening, but your system is so well-thought-out and, and so comprehensive.

   22. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig3:31

       I feel that's, that's what I'm supposed to be doing, is organizing the chaos of a fight so that the regular person can understand what's happening. When I was fighting in training, fighting was scary and, uh, you know, I was very scared of it so I wanted to make sure I understood what was going on, so I just started mapping it out. And a lot of that came from Sensei Rudin because he had the number system of, you know, three was jab, cross, hook rather than three just being the left hook. So he sparked the initial interest to just start categorizing everything and putting things into a system, and it helped out in the-

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw3:58

       Yeah, but you don't sleep.

   24. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig3:59

       ... really be successful. Yeah. (laughs)

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw3:59

       He thinks about it nonstop. He doesn't sleep-

   26. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig4:01

       There's only one way to be great.

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw4:02

       I mean, I'll get a, I'll get a text message in the middle of the night when we're coming up to a fight and, like, it'd be, like, 12:00, 1:00, and it's even... If he's in Colorado, it's 2:00 for him. And (laughs) , uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       Yeah.

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw4:11

       ... getting a random text message of what I should be doing for this fight or what I... Like, he's watching sparring tapes of what I was doing. "We need to change this. We need to change that." I mean, this guy cares about my career just as much as I do, and that's why it works, you know? Um...

   30. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig4:20

       Yeah. It's true. I want him, I want him to be the best he can be.
3. 5:21 – 6:44

   From Alpha Male to Colorado: starting over, opening a gym, and living the ‘sensei’ role

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:21

      Yeah. When you were... when you were in Sacramento and then you moved to Colorado, you had basically kind of had to start from scratch. You... A lot of people obviously know who you are. You're a well-sought-out trainer, but you were opening up your own place from scratch.

   2. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig5:34

      Yes, sir.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:34

      And now that place is fucking mobbed and you're expanding.

   4. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig5:37

      Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's... We're expanding and, uh, just continuing to grow and have a good, positive outlet for people to explore their soul, right? Uh, that's why I'm here, is to teach martial arts. So it's, uh... I'm glad everyone else is, is realizing that as well and I can cross paths with, uh, ninjas like TJ Dillashaw and help them become better martial artists. And it's just a good... I'm, you know, 100% livingly- living vicariously through TJ and all my athletes and everybody under the BMT umbrella. And it's a good way to give back and basically relive another career for the most part, right? So...

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      Mm-hmm.

   6. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig6:08

      And that's what we should be doing anyways, paying the positive lessons forward and onto the next generation, and that's, uh, that's the definition of sensei, actually, meaning history teacher, teacher, you know, from those who've come before you. So... And to have somebody like TJ, as dedicated as he is, it's, it's a true blessing. And, uh, that's why I'm all in. He's all in. I'm all in. Let's go.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Yeah. Well, it's... It's just rare that you find all-in coach and all-in fighter-

   8. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig6:30

      Yep.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:30

      ... and they get together and you guys have such unique working...

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw6:34

       I'm, I'm more than all in, same with you, like...

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       Sure.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw6:35

       ... I'm, like, addicted, you know? Like I can't-

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:37

       Yeah.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw6:37

       Like if I'm not completely, like, full-blown into it, I mentally am, am fucked when I get home, you know?

4. 6:44 – 8:52

   Cody Garbrandt rivalry aftermath: vindication, ultimatums, and career decisions

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:44

      Now, coming off of this second victory over Cody and then being able to stop him even quicker this time and the... and just all the crazy shit-talking that led up to that fight and-

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw6:55

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:55

      ... the results of the first fight...I mean, uh, that's gotta be very satisfying to you that everything is going according to plan.

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw7:03

      Absolutely, man. Um, it is. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:06

      I mean, obviously.

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw7:06

      Especially with the whole build-up. You know? It was, like, two years of just bullshit-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:09

      Mm-hmm.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw7:09

      ... having to deal with that in my life. And that's not the kind of person I am, you know?

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:12

      Yeah.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw7:12

       I'd rather be in the mountains, you not being able to get ahold of me, hunting or just camping. And, like, if I, if I could disappear, I'd, I'd take the advantage to do it, you know? So that crazy attention and just, like, the shit talk on the-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       Mm-hmm.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw7:22

       ... TV show, them accusing me of everything, like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       Yeah.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw7:25

       ... uh, that took a lot, you know? And so for all of that to be, like, taken off my shoulders feels great.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       For you, though, th- there's got ... That's gotta be a real feeling of, like, retribution too. Like, no matter what they said-

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw7:36

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:36

       ... like, you, you had the right idea. They might not have been happy-

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw7:39

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       ... that you decided to do it for yourself, and the right move for yourself was to go and go to Colorado and, and be with Duane, but obviously you were right.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw7:47

       Yeah. Oh, 100% I was right. I mean, that's why I made the decision. I'm definitely ... You know, you gotta be selfish in this, this sport. You gotta do what's best for yourself. And I-

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:55

       In some ways, without fucking people over-

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw7:57

       You have-

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:58

       ... you have to be selfish. Yeah.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw7:58

       Of course.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       Yeah.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw7:59

       I mean, we have to know what's best for you. And then-

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       Right.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw8:00

       So the ultimate decision for me was when I got an ultimatum. You know? Like, Uriah knew how much I liked training with Duane. He knew how great it was for my mentality, and we just vibed right away, you know? And they didn't. And so when he gave me the ultimatum, like, "Look, man, you're either doing your camp with Duane or you're doing it with us," I was like, "Well, then, you don't have my best interest at heart. I'm outta here." You know? Like, I sold my house, bought, uh, moved, moved up to Colorado. Like, I dropped everything and went, dude. That was tough. That was a tough situation to go through. And, uh, I, I, I ... Yeah, I made the right choice, you know? Proved it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Well, your d- your decision and the way you approached it was very similar to what you were doing too. 'Cause when I talked to you, you're like, "I'm gonna open up my own gym in Colorado."

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw8:36

       Yes, sir.
5. 8:52 – 9:05

   Training Lab in Anaheim: building a gym around science, culture, and the right people

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw8:52

      Starting a gym is tough, man.

   2. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig8:53

      Yeah.

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw8:53

      We're, we're doing it now. Well, we're, we've been going through it for the last year, year and a half down here in southern California, so ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:58

      Yeah. And the, the new place is called ...

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw9:01

      Uh, The Training Lab.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:02

      The Training Lab and-

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw9:02

      But it's spelled with an R-E-I-N.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:04

      ... spelled with R-E-I-N.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw9:04

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:04

       Like, REIN.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw9:05

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:05

       Yeah.

6. 9:05 – 22:07

   Sam Calavita’s ‘garage science’: nutrition, macros, meal prep, and measurable gains

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw9:05

      'Cause Mark Muñoz had REINN-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw9:07

      ... down in, uh, Lake Forest. And Sam Calvitha, the guy that I moved down for for strength and conditioning, just his, his crazy mind. He's beyond smart. Like, he'll ... Everything he talks about ... Like, I had to be at his house for hours pretty much doing a podcast with him to figure out what he's talking about, and usually it always goes over your head. You know, I've gone ... Like I said, I'm always full-blown. I'm in 100%. And so as soon as he started to show me the science behind what my body needs to do, uh, for my diet, my recovery, um, the days I'm working out, my ... the way I'm doing my strength and conditioning, and what ... if I'm gonna go bigger or how far I am from camp. Like, everything has a rhyme and reason. Like, every calorie I eat, every macronutrients I eat, he's got it down written down. He's ... Like, this guy stays up late and works. And, and he doesn't do it for the money or the pride. Like, he doesn't want anything. Like, we do it out of his garage. You know? It's like an old Rocky-style training with Drago science.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:57

      I saw that on the UFC countdown videos.

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw9:59

      Yeah, man. We're out in the park, you know. We're doing crazy, like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:01

      Yeah.

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw10:01

      Yesterday I was out in the park with him doing a bunch of crazy stuff and a lot of reaction time stuff. And, uh, just the way he trains is very, very scientific, and I've seen the gains. Insanely, you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:11

      Really?

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw10:12

      For as old as I am, I'm the strongest and fastest I've ever been.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:15

       How old are you now?

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw10:16

       32. And I've been training since I was eight, you know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       Right.

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw10:19

       I never got on a diet, never got into any of this, um, until I started picking Sam's brain. And, uh, I think the real s- ... I mean, everything's ... It's not bro science either. We're not like, "Oh, I think I feel better."

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:29

       Right.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw10:29

       I'm testing myself, you know. I've, I've boosted my hormones. Um, I wasn't able to get my wife pregnant for three years, and it happened in three months after meeting Sam. Like, I went full-bl- ... I went so full-blown that I created my own, like, spice company around his diet. You know? Like, I don't-

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       What's ch- ... Well, what has he got you doing differently? What ... How were you eating before, and what were you doing before for strength and conditioning before you met him?

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw10:48

       Um, so it was ... I didn't care about what I ate. I wa- ... I don't cut much weight, you know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:54

       Right.

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw10:54

       35s isn't a very big cut for me, so-

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:55

       What do you walk around at?

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw10:56

       Um, like, right now I probably walk about 150 this morning. Um, that's a little bit lighter than normal, but I haven't been doing my ... I have to ... I bulk up to go 35s. I put on another, like, good five pounds of muscle before I start to even worry about my weight at 35s. Um, but I was just eating whatever, you know? Um, and I used to make fun of Danny for being gluten-free. He'd be like, "Ah, give me more gluten."

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       (laughs)

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw11:15

       "I don't care. I'll eat whatever I want. I'm the best, you know? I'll just train hard, train harder than everyone." But, uh, not only my age, but just, uh, learning the science behind it. Now I'm not eating grains, you know. No sugars unless it's a simple, like, uh, from fruits and stuff like that. Um, yeah, man. I mean, it, it's, it's a special diet. I'd say, like, the cl- ... You, like, almost go, like, paleo, keto kinda, but obviously our bodies can't do that because I need the simple carbs, the new carbs to run off of stuff.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:40

       Yeah.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw11:40

       But, uh, yeah, man. He's real ... I, I don't wanna give away all his secrets, but yeah, man. He's, he's changed up a lot with me.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:46

       He don't wanna give away all his secrets. But when it comes to nutrition-

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw11:49

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:49

       ... like, what is d- what is different? Like, what kind of protein does he have you eating? What portions of protein? How much of it is fat? What ... Are you getting your fat from avocado, coconut oil? What are you getting it from?

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw11:58

       Oh, yeah. Uh, lot of, lot of, lot of nuts. Lot of coconut oils. Um, uh, they even pre-make my meals, so I don't even-

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:05

       Really?
7. 22:07 – 27:19

   Supplements, hair analysis, and heavy-metal detox: arsenic from rice/tattoos

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:07

      It's cordyceps mushrooms, B12, and adaptogens. And those are all really important things for energy. So is, does Kalavita have you doing all kinds of supplementation, and-

   2. GUGuest22:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:17

      ... what has he got you, uh, taking?

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw22:19

      So everyone's got a different supplement plan because he does a hair analysis from us and decides like-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:23

      Jesus Christ is a scientist.

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw22:25

      Oh, you really ... everything's got numbers, man, everything.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:26

      Hair analysis. I love it.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw22:27

      Yeah. And so he'll be ... so my supplement base would be different than Dwayne's. I mean, a lot of us have the, we have the same aminos. We have the same s- creatine, obviously depending on where you're going for a fight, um, you know, that kind of stuff. But when it comes down to what, what's in your body mineral wise, like, I might have more magnesium or more this or more of that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:44

      Mm-hmm.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw22:45

       And gets our body back to homeostasis. So it'll take out what you have too much of. I might need more vitamin B3 complex.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:50

       Are there any examples of things you didn't, you have too much of?

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw22:53

       I have, well, I have too much arsenic in my body. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:55

       Oh, what were you eating?

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw22:57

       Um, I think it's rice. I think the rice is given a lot of ... because rice is heavily-

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:00

       Rice? Mm-hmm. Good stuff.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw23:01

       ... 'cause it's grown in water.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:03

       Oh.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw23:03

       Um, and so the arsenics come out of the water.

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:05

       Oh, wow.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw23:06

       Yeah. Yeah, so I, I think it's ars- it could be from my tattoos as well. I mean, tattoo, like the, the ink.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:11

       Whoa, really?

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw23:11

       Yeah, the ink has arsenic in it.

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:13

       I'm fucked then.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw23:14

       (laughs) Yeah, man, the only person that have more arsenic in my body than me in our camp was, uh, Cub Swanson.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:20

       Wow.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw23:21

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:21

       And he's all covered in tattoos.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw23:22

       His whole back and stuff, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:24

       Yeah, that is crazy.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw23:25

       Mm-hmm.
8. 27:19 – 34:34

   Recovery stack and bodywork debates: cryo, hyperbarics, massage, and chiropractors

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:19

      I don't think people understand the, uh, the kind of strain on your body a fight camp puts.

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw27:25

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan27:26

      It's fucking crazy. I mean, if I worked out the way you guys did once-

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw27:30

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan27:30

      ... I'm wrecked for a week.

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw27:31

      But that's why he's doing-

   7. JRJoe Rogan27:32

      But you guys are doing two a days-

   8. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig27:33

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan27:33

      ... every day, constantly going at it and then there's ice baths. Is... Sam, what does h- he have you doing? Sauna, ice bath, what does he have you got?

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw27:41

       Um, for our recovery, I mean, mainly it's just a lot of, most of the time taking the time off. But we have, um... It's always changing, it's always evolving too. He's got like this iMile Pro we do for like some sort of stim on our muscles, w- I'm- I do light therapy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan27:54

       Stim, like electrical stim?

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw27:56

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan27:56

       Yeah.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw27:56

       I do, I do, uh, light therapy. Um, there's this new place he's starting to work with, uh, down in, um, Mission Viejo called like the O2 Recovery Center where we'll do... We'll do cryo, we'll do hyperbaric chamber, we'll do, um... What is it? CVAC or something like that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:11

       Mm-hmm, yeah.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw28:12

       Uh, bunch of different stuff we're gonna add to it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:13

       CVAC is the machine we were talking about really recently where you... It jacks you up in alt- in altitude and then brings you down.

   18. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig28:19

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan28:19

       It like changes the pressure inside that little tube and-

   20. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig28:21

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:22

       That's supposed to be pretty amazing. Did you have good results with that?

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw28:24

       I actually haven't done it yet.

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:25

       Oh, okay.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw28:25

       So something he's told me now that like we're gonna add this now.

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:28

       Oh.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw28:28

       Like it's always like every time I come back to camp, it's like we're adding the next step.

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:31

       Oh.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw28:31

       He doesn't do it all at once.

   29. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig28:32

       As it should, right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan28:34

       Yeah.
9. 34:34 – 37:38

   How Duane teaches fast: coded combos, corner communication, and sparring structure

   1. JRJoe Rogan34:34

      So when you guys are doing camp, do you move down to California for the... What do you do, six or eight weeks? How many weeks are you doing?

   2. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig34:40

      Uh...

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw34:41

      I do a lot. I probably do more than I probably should. But I mean, I almost do camp before I get into camp kind of thing.

   4. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig34:46

      Really?

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw34:46

      I like to get-

   6. JRJoe Rogan34:47

      You get yourself in shape?

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw34:48

      Yeah, I like to be in shape when camp starts, you know?

   8. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig34:49

      It's always developing new things.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw34:50

      I would say this camp, Duane came out, like, started coming out nine weeks before the fight, maybe 10, nine.

   10. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig34:56

       Yeah. It was a little extra, more than two months. Yeah.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw34:58

       Yeah.

   12. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig34:58

       But-

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw34:58

       And he would do three days, he'd come out, fly out.

   14. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:02

       Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Or no, sorry, I'm sorry, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So be out here three days, back home four days.

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:07

       Yeah.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw35:07

       Mm-hmm.

   17. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:07

       Splitting time.

   18. JRJoe Rogan35:08

       Yeah.

   19. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:08

       But it worked out well. I, I, with that, I was able to find a... which I was already aware of... Slow down, motherfucker.

   20. JRJoe Rogan35:14

       (laughs)

   21. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:14

       Sorry, I get excited.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw35:15

       You're doing great.

   23. JRJoe Rogan35:16

       No problems.

   24. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:16

       I got my notepad right here.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw35:17

       People's life in the corner.

   26. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:19

       Slow down.

   27. JRJoe Rogan35:19

       People are like, "Duane's, I gotta talk slower today."

   28. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig35:21

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan35:21

       I'm gonna talk slower. People always complain I talk too fast.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw35:23

       Yeah.
10. 37:38 – 46:54

    Camps vs super-gyms: tailored training, gym politics, and building a pro-athlete mindset

    1. JRJoe Rogan37:38

       ... I just, it means it's fun. There's- I love this shit. ... there's a lot of people that wanna go to these big giant super camps, and I know, you know, w- with Alpha Male you were in a big giant super camp.

    2. TDTJ Dillashaw37:46

       (clears throat)

    3. JRJoe Rogan37:47

       What you're doing now is very different. And that's, this is something that obviously Stipe Miocic-

    4. TDTJ Dillashaw37:52

       Yes.

    5. JRJoe Rogan37:52

       ... was doing. There's a lot of other fighters that were doing, that are doing, where a lot of it is based around them. Mighty Mouse, in particular. That's, uh, he's another one. I mean, there are uh, uh un- unquestionably professional fighters around them.

    6. TDTJ Dillashaw38:04

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan38:04

       But it's not like they're in a building with six other world champions and there's a buncha, you know, savages that are coming up that, you know, and everybody's trying to kill each other. It's a, it's a different, it's a different setup. Like, it's a lot of it is geared towards you.

    8. TDTJ Dillashaw38:18

       It- it- it is. And it's just the natural way it kind of happened this time.

    9. JRJoe Rogan38:22

       Is this better? What is better?

    10. TDTJ Dillashaw38:23

        (sighs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan38:23

        Is it better to be in the doghouse with all the Alpha Male guys, where it's all just animals trying to kill each other? Quality-

    12. TDTJ Dillashaw38:30

        Yes.

    13. JRJoe Rogan38:30

        ... over quantity.

    14. TDTJ Dillashaw38:30

        Yes, if it's, if it's not for money. You know what I mean? When these big gyms turn into something that wants to make money-

    15. JRJoe Rogan38:36

        Mm-hmm.

    16. TDTJ Dillashaw38:37

        ... then the real martial arts comes out of it. When you have coaches and people running it that are really going to not wanna ... Like, I have a gym, the Training Lab. So I'm- I'm very fortunate that I have Steve Martin, a guy that's been-

    17. JRJoe Rogan38:49

        Steve's awesome.

    18. TDTJ Dillashaw38:49

        ... he's put his heart and soul into this thing to keep this building open, 'cause we're not making money. We're not, we're not, we're not all have ... We don't have a ... It's pretty much private. I teach a kids class and we do adult boot, uh, bootcamp kind of things, just to turn the lights on. Just so that bills are paid and there's some sponsors here and there to pay the coaches. Like, we're losing money and, and thank God that we have a guy like Steve Martin that's willing to see our dream. That we wanna build a team that is not based around money, that it's, uh, um ... Whatever money we end up making from the gym is going, every dollar to the coaches. You know? Like ...

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:17

        Hmm, that's great.

    20. TDTJ Dillashaw39:18

        I don't wanna make, I don't wanna make money. I don't want that awkward relationship between me and Juan Archuleta that I'm making money off him, you know what I mean?

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:23

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TDTJ Dillashaw39:23

        'Cause then you get that weird business relationship.

    23. JRJoe Rogan39:25

        Right.

    24. TDTJ Dillashaw39:25

        Rather than us just having a real relationship, like me wanting him to get better, him wanting me to get better. Which I've felt like maybe it used to kind of be that way at Alpha Male, but it's turned into a money thing to where it ... I don't know, man, it wasn't ... Like, there wasn't like ... Before, and even before we got Duane, we had no coach. It was just us coaching each other kind of thing, you know? Um-

    25. JRJoe Rogan39:44

        Yeah, that's not usually the best thing.

    26. TDTJ Dillashaw39:46

        No. We were just beating each other up. We were sparring four or five days a week. (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan39:50

        Really? (laughs)

    28. TDTJ Dillashaw39:50

        Yeah, dude. I mean, I picked up stuff fast because of it, you know. Like, you had to learn how to fight.

    29. JRJoe Rogan39:54

        Right.

    30. TDTJ Dillashaw39:54

        Um, and I'm aggressive and I like that stuff, but it's not smart. You know?
11. 46:54 – 52:43

    Fight IQ, emotions, and tape study: Woodley–Till breakdown and staying consistent mentally

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:54

       Dude, he shut all that Darren Till hype up quick.

    2. TDTJ Dillashaw46:56

       I knew he was gonna win.

    3. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig46:57

       I would like to talk to Tyrone-

    4. TDTJ Dillashaw46:59

       Did you-

    5. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig46:59

       ... or Duke and see if... Sorry to interrupt.

    6. TDTJ Dillashaw47:00

       No, go ahead.

    7. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:01

       Uh, and 'cause how he caught him 'cause Darren Till... I made a video about this, how Darren Till typically likes to feint and pump and get the guy backing up, get them out of position, and then land the cross, you know, from open stance, from southpaw, and there's a, a slight delay between those two to three punches that he throws and I'm wondering if Tyrone did his research and seen that.

    8. JRJoe Rogan47:19

       Tyrin.

    9. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:20

       Tyrin. Is it... Does he say Tyrin? Not Tyrone?

    10. TDTJ Dillashaw47:21

        It's not Tyrone.

    11. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:21

        'Cause the damn Ty-... Mr. Woodley.

    12. JRJoe Rogan47:23

        Right? It's Tyrin Woodley.

    13. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:25

        Tyrin? Tyrin? I said T- Tyrin.

    14. JRJoe Rogan47:26

        There's no E.

    15. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:26

        So that... Now the joke wouldn't have been as funny.

    16. TDTJ Dillashaw47:28

        (laughs)

    17. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:29

        Tyrin. So that's what you're saying.

    18. JRJoe Rogan47:31

        (laughs)

    19. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:31

        Tyrin.

    20. TDTJ Dillashaw47:33

        Beast mode. (laughs)

    21. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:33

        And I'm wondering if he... If he... If you read that from watching the videos previously and seen that little gap in the... In his combinations and was able to beat him to the punch-

    22. JRJoe Rogan47:40

        Yeah.

    23. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig47:40

        ... or if he just duck and chucked. I'm curious to see if that was a... something that they trained and, and sought out or... 'Cause that takes balls, right? Like, he's coming in with his strongest punch, his cross, that he's knocked many people out with and he just stepped into it and beat him to the punch. That, that takes balls.

    24. JRJoe Rogan47:54

        Well, Tyrin, that's his... He always does that strategy of standing against the fence or close to the fence and then when a guy's moving, he counters.

    25. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig48:01

        Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan48:01

        I mean, he did that with Josh Koscheck. He's done that with a lot of guys.

    27. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig48:04

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan48:05

        And Rory MacDonald was the only guy to f- shut that down.

    29. DLDuane "Bang" Ludwig48:08

        Yes.

    30. JRJoe Rogan48:08

        He figured out a way to shut it down.
12. 52:43 – 1:08:30

    Weight cuts and the Cejudo super-fight: making 125, hydration strategy, and safety

    1. JRJoe Rogan52:43

       There's a possible super fight with you and Henry Cejudo-

    2. TDTJ Dillashaw52:46

       Hell yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:46

       ... that's being talked about.

    4. TDTJ Dillashaw52:47

       Hell yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:47

       Would you fight him at 125?

    6. TDTJ Dillashaw52:49

       25s, yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:50

       Yeah.

    8. TDTJ Dillashaw52:50

       Absolutely. I don't want no excuses that I'm the bigger man. And-

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:52

       But he probably is bigger than you, quite honestly.

    10. TDTJ Dillashaw52:55

        Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like, I... 20-

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:56

        He struggles to get to 30, uh, from, uh, to, down to 25. I mean-

    12. TDTJ Dillashaw52:59

        25-

    13. JRJoe Rogan53:00

        ... he's way over 35.

    14. TDTJ Dillashaw53:00

        ... especially with the coach I have now, Sam Calveito, it's like w- I, I was told I was gonna fight, um, Demetrious Johnson the summer before I fought Cody the first time because Cody had to pull out 'cause of his back. Within three weeks of time, I got down to waking up to 140 pounds by changing my, the way I'm working out, changing my calories, changing my macronutrients, and, uh, my supple- like, just going full bore. Like, I was able to start waking up in the morning 140 pounds within three weeks.

    15. JRJoe Rogan53:23

        And so right now, you're about 10 plus pounds heavier than that.

    16. TDTJ Dillashaw53:26

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan53:27

        And how much time would you need, like, if they said, "Hey, December 31st, New Year's Eve, super fight, what?"

    18. TDTJ Dillashaw53:32

        Yeah, my coach, my coach always wants, like, the, like, actual... Like, he told me, like, before or after my last fight, I mean, it's 16 weeks, but, I mean, obviously we could do it a lot fast-... I could have made 25s this last fight, um, with how-

    19. JRJoe Rogan53:41

        How much water I had. I mean, the, the, the hydration that he's got me going on when we wanna get close to a fight too is, it's, uh, easiest... I, I don't do s- I don't do, do baths anymore. Like, I, to make weight, I walked on the treadmill with plastics. For how long?

    20. TDTJ Dillashaw53:55

        Mm. The day of, I'd say 30 minutes. I sat in the sauna a little bit and then walked-

    21. JRJoe Rogan54:00

        So you're only losing, like, four or five pounds most, right?

    22. TDTJ Dillashaw54:03

        Yeah, in the morning? Yeah, probably, like, three or four or five pounds, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan54:05

        Wow.

    24. TDTJ Dillashaw54:06

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan54:07

        That's, that's a massive benefit to you in terms of your conditioning.

    26. TDTJ Dillashaw54:10

        Oh, huge.

    27. JRJoe Rogan54:11

        'Cause you're not, you're not compromised.

    28. TDTJ Dillashaw54:12

        In having fluid on your brain, uh, your, your cardio-

    29. JRJoe Rogan54:15

        Yeah.

    30. TDTJ Dillashaw54:15

        ... um, your muscular contraction and endurance. I mean, everything. I mean, when you deplete yourself like that, like you're talking about Darren Till maybe cutting too much weight.

Episode duration: 2:23:21