The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #45 with Justin Wren & Rafael Lovato Jr.
CHAPTERS
- 0:01 – 1:20
Lovato’s Bellator run, UFC aspirations, and starting MMA at 31
Joe opens by praising Rafael Lovato Jr. and jokingly laments that he’s fighting in Bellator instead of the UFC. Lovato explains he’s happy where he is, even though he began MMA surprisingly late after an elite BJJ career.
- 1:20 – 4:43
Jeet Kune Do upbringing and discovering Brazilian jiu-jitsu in Oklahoma
Lovato traces his martial arts roots to his father’s Jeet Kune Do background and a childhood filled with diverse striking and weapons training. He recounts how Brazilian jiu-jitsu entered their lives and the sacrifices required to train from Oklahoma.
- 4:43 – 6:14
Chasing BJJ history: Worlds gold, dominance era, and losing the hunger
Lovato explains his drive to become a world champion after seeing BJ Penn win and how that shaped his competitive BJJ career. Over time, repetitive seasons and familiar opponents dulled the motivational edge, pushing him toward a new challenge.
- 6:14 – 8:46
From BJJ comfort to MMA calling: why he finally switched
Lovato describes feeling “called” to MMA as a martial artist, initially treating it as a one-fight experiment. Enjoying the process led him to commit more seriously and reconnect with the full-spectrum training from his youth.
- 8:46 – 17:55
Building an MMA striking system: Curitiba camps and Evolutao Thai
Lovato details how he developed MMA-ready striking through longtime coach Mauricio “Veio” Amado and training in Brazil. He explains Evolutao Thai as a Muay Thai approach engineered for MMA, integrating offense/defense, damage, and takedown realities.
- 17:55 – 23:27
Shoot Boxe sparring culture, gym-war stories, and managing damage
The conversation turns to Curitiba’s reputation for brutal sparring and how gyms have evolved after learning hard lessons about brain trauma. They discuss how frequently Lovato spars, how he self-regulates intensity, and share famous stories about old-school chaos.
- 23:27 – 40:22
Khabib vs Conor aftermath: brawl breakdown, accountability, and promotion ethics
Rogan and the guests analyze UFC 229’s post-fight melee and how the promotion’s build-up encouraged escalation. They weigh personal responsibility (especially Conor’s tactics) against organizational incentives, and argue about what “martial arts values” should look like on the biggest stage.
- 40:22 – 54:27
Dagestan and honor culture: why some places don’t “play” with disrespect
Justin shares vivid experiences traveling and wrestling in Dagestan and describes cultural norms around respect. The group connects this to why Conor’s style can backfire against fighters from honor-centric environments like Khabib’s.
- 54:27 – 1:02:13
Who controls titles? Ali Act, sanctioning bodies, and USADA as a model
They pivot to structural fairness in MMA: rankings, interim titles, and whether promoters should decide title shots. The Muhammad Ali Act comes up as they compare boxing governance and discuss USADA as an example of independent oversight.
- 1:02:13 – 1:09:13
Tournament formats, PFL/Bellator incentives, and a detour into legendary eating feats
Justin asks about tournament brackets returning to top-level MMA and highlights PFL’s million-dollar format. The group watches a knockout clip, then veers into comedic stories about heavyweight Josh Copeland’s extreme food-challenge exploits and weight transformation.
- 1:09:13 – 1:23:57
Inside Bellator: working with Coker, jiu-jitsu culture, and meeting Saulo & Xande
Lovato explains why he enjoys Bellator’s professionalism and the surprising amount of jiu-jitsu representation among staff. He then tells the origin story of connecting with Saulo Ribeiro and Xande Ribeiro—an encounter that shaped his technical style and career trajectory.
- 1:23:57 – 1:31:54
Pressure passing DNA: Toledo grind, Airdyne suffering, and injury-proofing the body
Rogan and Lovato dig into the “smothering” top game associated with the Ribeiro lineage and how Lovato evolved from a guard player into a pressure finisher. They segue into common jiu-jitsu injuries and Lovato’s shift toward smarter strength, mobility, and recovery.
- 1:31:54 – 1:41:30
Justin Wren relocates to Oklahoma: Lovato’s coaching style and the gi debate
Justin explains why he moved to Oklahoma to train under Lovato—crediting Lovato’s documentary, crushing top pressure, and unusually precise coaching. They discuss why Lovato insists on gi training for culture and technical depth, and how it refined Justin’s grappling for MMA.
- 1:41:30 – 2:03:33
Fight for the Forgotten: bullying prevention, Heroes in Waiting, and the fundraising tournament
Justin and Lovato outline how their training partnership expanded into shared philanthropy—water wells abroad and anti-bullying work at home. They present the Heroes in Waiting campaign: a fundraising competition that equips academies with bullying-prevention curriculum while funding clean water projects.
