JRE MMA Show #57 with TJ Dillashaw

Joe Rogan 0:00 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. TJ.

TJ Dillashaw 0:05 Yo.

Joe Rogan 0:05 How are you, brother?

TJ Dillashaw 0:06 I'm doing good, man.

Joe Rogan 0:07 What is it like now? What is this, uh- what did- what- first of all, what was it like that night? For people who don't know-

TJ Dillashaw 0:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:14 ... let me just g- give you the rundown just so you don't have to say it.

TJ Dillashaw 0:17 Cool.

Joe Rogan 0:18 You were involved in, uh, one of the most high-profile flyweight fights ever.

TJ Dillashaw 0:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:22 You're the bantamweight champion, you dropped down to flyweight, you went through this extensive training routine to get your body down to a manageable weight where you can cut the last 10 pounds or so-

TJ Dillashaw 0:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:34 ... and make 125. The fight starts, Cejudo lands a good shot early, there's a lot of- a lot of action, and the referee stops the fight.

TJ Dillashaw 0:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:42 And I was- I was s- shook by it. Everybody that I was watching the fight with was like, "What the fuck?"

TJ Dillashaw 0:50 Dude, it-

Joe Rogan 0:50 And it was almost universal. Like, no one thought it was a good stoppage.

TJ Dillashaw 0:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:54 It's one of those stoppages where no one goes, "Yeah, it was a good stoppage, good stoppage."

TJ Dillashaw 0:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:59 No one.

TJ Dillashaw 0:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:59 Everybody was like, "What the fuck?" You jumped off and you're like, "Dude, come on. Come on, man."

TJ Dillashaw 1:04 It's been rough, man. It's a rough one to- r- rough one to swallow on- on multiple reasons, you know. Um, like you say, he th- he landed a good shot. Um, the- the- everything's being overshadowed by this shot that landed behind my ear, you know. Um, I was over- uh, off balance, I threw a right hand that came in a little too aggressive. That's the way I fight, right? He pushed me over, I was off balance. He threw a kick, I blocked it, and he went to throw a right hand and I tried to dip out of the way, and it was one of those shots that hits you behind the head, like right behind the ear. Not illegal, right? We're on our feet. It's completely legal, but, uh, it was an unfortunate situation. One of those punches just kind of takes your feet out from underneath you. You're 100% there, but your equilibrium's off, you know, and he jumps on me. Um, I remember hearing the ref say, "Dillashaw, show me something," I told him, "I'm good." And I remember talking to him before the fight in the back, and he said, like, "If I'm telling you that, make sure you're talking to me. Give me- show me something," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:51 But how were you talking when-

TJ Dillashaw 1:53 I said it, I said, "I'm good."

Joe Rogan 1:54 I mean, but- but, uh, in his, you know, from- from his percep- perspective-

TJ Dillashaw 1:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58 ... how does he expect you to talk while you're blocking punches?

TJ Dillashaw 2:01 Yeah. Well, he even s- he even said too in the back before the fight too, like, you know, "Give me a thumbs up or something if you're in a choke," this or that, you know. So, uh, to be honest, I think he was v- I didn't- I didn't know who he was. I think he's really inexperienced. Watching him ref as well too, jumping around as soon as the- the commotion kinda had happened, he was looking for a reason to stop it almost. Um, but, you know, I can't-

Joe Rogan 2:20 I think he was- I think he was amped up, you know.

TJ Dillashaw 2:21 Yeah, I mean, it's a big fight.

Joe Rogan 2:22 Big fight for him too.

TJ Dillashaw 2:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23 You know, for him to get a high profile fight, first time on ESPN+.

TJ Dillashaw 2:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:27 Big deal.

TJ Dillashaw 2:28 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:29 It was a huge, huge deal.

TJ Dillashaw 2:29 100%. So, th- that's the- I think that's the part that almost bugs me more is that I was there, um, but it was the shot that hit me behind the head. Um, and then obviously the controversial stoppage. So, it- it's a rough one to swallow, you know. It's- it's definitely, uh, been bugging me, but, uh, I'm good if I keep my mind off of things and staying busy. I'm already back in the gym, um, doing business things and, uh, trying to stay as busy as possible so I don't think about it and want to punch a hole through the wall every time I walk by one.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Well, it's such a different fight, because it was such an arduous task for you to get down to flyweight. I mean, people are looking... You look great right now. Your face is full, you look healthy.

TJ Dillashaw 3:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:04 But goddamn, dude, I saw you the week of the fight on television-

TJ Dillashaw 3:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:08 ... and I was like, "Look at his face, this guy."

TJ Dillashaw 3:09 I looked like the tweaker.

Joe Rogan 3:10 Yeah, you did.

TJ Dillashaw 3:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:12 You- you looked like you were, uh, you know... Cejudo said it best, you look like an ultra-marathon runner, like you're some guy who runs long distances, like...

TJ Dillashaw 3:18 If- if I would've decided to cl- um, lose all the weight at the end, I wouldn't have looked like that, right?

Joe Rogan 3:23 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 3:23 But I got my body down to 5 to 6% body fat, you know, so when I start losing anything towards the end, it's gonna come- you're gonna see it out of my face.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 3:31 You know? And I'm one of those guys that loses and gains weight out of my face, you know. After my fights we call myself Fat Tyler.

Joe Rogan 3:37 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 3:37 Because that's my- my real name's Tyler and I go by TJ, and so, uh, Justin Buckles gave me that name back at Alpha Male, like...

Joe Rogan 3:42 Fat Tyler. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 3:43 I'd always get puffy face after my fights, so my alter ego's Fat Tyler.

Joe Rogan 3:47 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 3:47 You know, going out and eating and being an asshole. But, um...

Joe Rogan 3:50 Right, eating spaghetti and shit.

TJ Dillashaw 3:51 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 3:52 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 3:52 Um, but, uh, so when I- when I decided to, like... If I- I did it over 12 weeks, so my body weight was down, I mean, my- bo- my- my body fat percentage is down to 5%.

Joe Rogan 4:01 That's crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 4:02 And so when you lose any more water weight or anything, you're gonna see it come out of your face, and it- because I was doing it for so long.

Joe Rogan 4:07 Now, what was it like being that low, uh, on y- as far as your body fat goes? What was your performance like, physically? How'd you feel?

TJ Dillashaw 4:15 I actually... So, I felt the best I've ever felt before I walked out before the fight.

Joe Rogan 4:19 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 4:20 Dude, th- uh, and I- that's another reason why I'm just so bitter about this thing, is because I didn't get a chance to show the work that I put in. I didn't get a chance to show all the science behind SAMcal/VEEDA and what he did to my body. I was stronger for this fight than I was my last Cody fight. I walked out two pounds heavier for this fight than I did my last Cody fight.

Joe Rogan 4:38 What did you walk out to?

TJ Dillashaw 4:39 Uh, before I started warming up I weighed 149.

Joe Rogan 4:42 What?

TJ Dillashaw 4:43 Yes. And I felt great. I didn't feel bloated, didn't feel nothing.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Wait a minute, wait a minute. You went from 125 to 149?

TJ Dillashaw 4:48 Yeah. Mm-hmm. I was a glycogen battery. I was ready to fucking go. I couldn't get tired before the fight when I was warming up in the back. I seriously, like, I've never felt better than this before a fight. Like, my- my mood, my energy levels, like, me hitting mitts with Duane in the back warming up, I was feeling smooth, I was feeling good. I remember even walking out in the cage and everything felt too good, almost too... I remember looking over at Duane, smiling at him, I felt awesome. Um, and that's even more of an unfortunate situation that I didn't get to really show that, you know?

Joe Rogan 5:16 Well, I mean, hats off to Henry, 'cause he's a beast.

TJ Dillashaw 5:19 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 5:19 I mean, he- he did catch you and he is one of the best.

TJ Dillashaw 5:22 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:22 And he's, uh... I mean, there's a r- the- that kind of caliber of athlete is what made this fight so special.

TJ Dillashaw 5:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:29 You being the bantamweight champion going down to flyweight.

TJ Dillashaw 5:31 Yup.

Joe Rogan 5:32 And I think the way you did it is probably the only way to really do it.

TJ Dillashaw 5:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:37 I don't-

TJ Dillashaw 5:37 Safely.

Joe Rogan 5:38 Yeah. I mean-

TJ Dillashaw 5:38 For sure.

Joe Rogan 5:39 ... I- I- I- yeah, I mean, I guess you were safe, because you were only- you were like, what, 135-ish the day before?

TJ Dillashaw 5:45 I made weight the night before the fight (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 5:48 What?

TJ Dillashaw 5:48 Or- or, no, the night before, uh, weigh-ins. So I went to sleep, um, 1.3 pounds over, and I floated that. I actually took a shit the morning of weigh-ins, which is insane. That never happens. Like, my body was still working.Um, I, I wanted to make the weight the night before, 'cause obviously I hadn't made 125. I didn't wanna have to wake up in the morning and-

Joe Rogan 6:05 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 6:05 ... see what my body was gonna do and if it was gonna give me that extra water. Um, but I made, I made weight super easy, man. Like, don't get me wrong, the 12 weeks was a motherfucker. It was hard, it was a lot of work. But the, the actual weight cut was easy. I had no hiccups, nothing. Like, Sam would tell me, like, what to go to bed at, he knew what I was gonna wake up at. He tells me the water loading I'm doing, um, the amount of electrolytes I'm taking in, the, the, the amount of food I'm eating. And so he knows exactly what my body's gonna wake up and do. He's been tracking it for not two years now.

Joe Rogan 6:35 That guy sounds brilliant. I really need to talk to him.

TJ Dillashaw 6:38 Dude.

Joe Rogan 6:38 I've, I've watched videos of him-

TJ Dillashaw 6:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:39 ... talking about it and seen the work, and just what a, what a unique individual he is.

TJ Dillashaw 6:45 I mean, that's why I decided to move back down to Southern California.

Joe Rogan 6:47 For him, really?

TJ Dillashaw 6:47 For him. Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 6:48 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 6:48 ... and then everything else kinda came along with it. My life is wonderful now, the people I got around me. Uh, I'm lucky that I have Duane Ludwig that's willing to trav out- travel out and train with me out there. Um, but I moved down to Southern California 'cause of Sam Calavita. And I came down and did two weeks with him, and started noticing like, "Man, this guy knows his shit," you know? Like-

Joe Rogan 7:05 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 7:05 I didn't realize-

Joe Rogan 7:06 Uniquely, uniquely know... I mean, there's a lot of people out there who know their shit.

TJ Dillashaw 7:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 But he seems like he's on some new level.

TJ Dillashaw 7:12 I mean, he sent me graphs that I have on my phone of, like, the tr- like, he w- he, like, to every week we knew exactly where my body weight wanted to be at. He was telling me weights that I'd be at before I would even be there and my body would just do it, you know? Um-

Joe Rogan 7:25 So you didn't need a separate person. So he's your-

TJ Dillashaw 7:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:27 This is what's un- unusual about this.

TJ Dillashaw 7:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:29 Normally, if you would hire somebody, you, you would hire, like, a George Lockhart or someone like that.

TJ Dillashaw 7:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Mike Dolce. And then you would, you would hire them almost specifically just for the weight cut and some nutrition advice. He's training you physically as well.

TJ Dillashaw 7:44 He's telling me, uh, my low base. Like, so my long distance running when I... Or my fasted low base. He, yeah, he does everything. My strength and conditioning, my nutrition, he, they make my meals, they do all my meal prep. He's telling me, like, w- how much, uh, low base I need to do per week, like either morning or night. He's telling me when I should train. Um, it's a... Everything is completely mapped out. I don't... There's no guesswork in it, there's nothing. Like, he's telling me everything. Like, he's listening to my heart rate when I'm sleeping, my heart rate variabilities. He's telling me what supplements to take, um, all of it. You know? Like, everything... I, I seriously... And, and, and that's, that's another reason why it, it's just so tough that this fight didn't get to, like, really let me prove anything not only for myself and who I am, but the work that this guy put in. You know? Like, I'm gonna sit here and brag about him and tell him about how badass he is, but then people wanna tell me, like, "Oh, you were malnourished, you don't have a chin. 125 was a bad cut for you." They're giving him crap all over the place. And, uh, I almost feel just as bad for him as I do for myself, for how much work he put into it and how, actually how great I felt before the fight and I didn't get a chance to show it. Like I said, I walked out at 149, glycogen battery ready to go. Um, I really never felt better.

Joe Rogan 8:52 God.

TJ Dillashaw 8:52 I know, man.

Joe Rogan 8:53 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 8:54 It, it was insane. Like, I, I, I, I really couldn't believe, like, how my body absorbed everything, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:00 So what are you walking around like now?

TJ Dillashaw 9:03 Uh, I'm in the low 50s (laughs) . I'm in low 50s right now, but that's 'cause I'm trying to be at low 50s.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 9:07 My body instantly wanted to just store everything, and I got up to, like, 60s, low 60s, and I was like, "Oh, shit."

Joe Rogan 9:14 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 9:14 So I started doing, I started doing some, uh, uh, hot yoga and-

Joe Rogan 9:18 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 9:18 ... going to wor- I just worked out with Sam yesterday, I'm going to his house later after this, you know? So, um, that's kinda the only way my mind can stay at ease right now with everything-

Joe Rogan 9:27 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 9:27 ... that's been going on-

Joe Rogan 9:27 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 9:27 ... is that I need to get back in the gym.

Joe Rogan 9:29 What was that night like after it was over?

TJ Dillashaw 9:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:31 I mean, going back to your dressing room and going back to your hotel?

TJ Dillashaw 9:35 Um, it was rough, man. Uh, it wa- it was definitely a, a motherfucker. It, it was, uh, uh... I was pissed. You know, I... Everyone wants to call me, like, a sore loser. I've never said I wasn't a sore loser. I fucking hate losing-

Joe Rogan 9:47 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 9:47 ... m- more than anybody. I mean, you, you show me a champion or a high-level competitor that likes losing, and I'll call you a liar. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 9:53 I, I think you're 100% correct. And Jamie and I have talked about this many times when w- you know, we're talking about, uh, LeBron James or Michael Jordan. Those guys were infamous for being terrible losers.

TJ Dillashaw 10:05 I hate losing.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Yeah, I mean, eh, I just don't think you get to be that elite of the elite unless you're a fucking maniac.

TJ Dillashaw 10:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:12 I really think that.

TJ Dillashaw 10:13 I mean, I think about it constantly. You know, I'm one of those OCD guys that's if I'm not in the gym, I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking-

Joe Rogan 10:18 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 10:18 ... about my training. And sometimes I need to distract myself. You know, that's why I distract myself with other businesses or things I got going on-

Joe Rogan 10:24 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 10:24 ... because I think about it too much. Um, and so especially when it's a controversial thing when people are questioning things and-

Joe Rogan 10:30 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 10:30 ... it's gonna piss you off even more. I mean, I hate losing, so you're definitely gonna see that. So that night was rough, man. I mean, the ride back to the hotel and, you know, I didn't wanna go out, I didn't really wanna eat. I just wanted to hang out with my son, you know? Like-

Joe Rogan 10:42 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 10:42 ... just get me away from fight things, let me think about my family, so...

Joe Rogan 10:47 Phew.

TJ Dillashaw 10:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:48 So, um, where is everything at right now in terms of have you talked to the UFC? What was their take on everything?

TJ Dillashaw 10:55 Um, they-

Joe Rogan 10:56 I know Dana said it was a quick stoppage.

TJ Dillashaw 10:58 Yeah. I mean, everyone's been saying it's a quick stoppage. I mean, I-

Joe Rogan 11:00 I know I haven't talked to anyone who didn't say that.

TJ Dillashaw 11:01 We got Big John McCarthy, Big John McCarthy's calling out the ref saying he thought it was a quick stoppage. We got Dana texting me, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:05 I talked to Mike Beltran a couple nights ago-

TJ Dillashaw 11:07 So did I.

Joe Rogan 11:08 ... he was saying the same thing.

TJ Dillashaw 11:09 Yeah. I mean, so everyone, everyone, everyone thinks it, you know? And, uh-

Joe Rogan 11:12 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 11:12 ... Dana was saying like, "Hey, m- okay, we'll figure it out in the next couple days. Early stoppage." I'm obviously pissed about it. It's noth- nothing I want this to happen, you know? So, um, my manager, Tiki, he's been in talks but we haven't really heard nothing yet on, on the decision of what's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 11:25 I love Tiki.

TJ Dillashaw 11:26 He's the best.

Joe Rogan 11:27 He's a great guy.

TJ Dillashaw 11:27 He's a, he's a great manager 'cause he's been in the fight game.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 11:30 He, he's been around, he's f- he's been here forever, early UFC days and still-

Joe Rogan 11:34 He's such a good dude too.

TJ Dillashaw 11:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:35 He's just got such a great personality.

TJ Dillashaw 11:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:36 He's just a fun guy to be around.

TJ Dillashaw 11:38 Yeah, so he's been, he's been, um, awesome for my career. I've only been with him for a short while time, but he's been awesome for me. But, uh, he's been in talks with, uh, Hunter and Dana. And so we're- I'm hoping to figure out something soon 'cause I'm rea- I'll fight tomorrow. You know? Like, I'll fight Henry at whatever weight he wants. Obviously would prefer 125s because I put in a lot of work and I wanna show-

Joe Rogan 11:58 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 11:58 ... that I, I know what I'm doing and it wasn't a fluke.

Joe Rogan 12:01 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 12:01 Or that this was a fluke, that this wasn't something that...Um-

Joe Rogan 12:05 Well, well, here's the deal. Even if the fight went longer and he stopped you-

TJ Dillashaw 12:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:09 ... and he legitimately stopped you-

TJ Dillashaw 12:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:11 Look, he's Henry Cejudo.

TJ Dillashaw 12:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:13 I mean that, that's, that's a possibility. This is the game.

TJ Dillashaw 12:15 100%.

Joe Rogan 12:15 This is, this is what it is.

TJ Dillashaw 12:17 That's why MMA is so great.

Joe Rogan 12:18 Right, it is what it-

TJ Dillashaw 12:18 Anything can happen.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 12:19 You know what I mean? Like, you go out there, like, no matter if you're the huge favorite, anything can happen.

Joe Rogan 12:24 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 12:24 You know?

Joe Rogan 12:25 Well, it just didn't get a chance to happen.

TJ Dillashaw 12:26 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 12:26 That's what's unfortunate. I mean, he really did land some good shots.

TJ Dillashaw 12:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:29 He really was coming on strong.

TJ Dillashaw 12:30 I agree.

Joe Rogan 12:31 But that-

TJ Dillashaw 12:31 He came out ready.

Joe Rogan 12:32 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 12:32 He was, he was ready.

Joe Rogan 12:33 He's a monster.

TJ Dillashaw 12:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:34 He's a bad motherfucker.

TJ Dillashaw 12:35 And he, he-

Joe Rogan 12:35 And y- so are you.

TJ Dillashaw 12:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Which is why that fight was so interesting.

TJ Dillashaw 12:39 He had some shit to prove. He was there-

Joe Rogan 12:40 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 12:40 ... to save the flyweight division.

Joe Rogan 12:42 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 12:42 And look, he did it. No one... I mean, uh, until I had the balls enough to drop down to 125s, there really wasn't any hype on a flyweight fight. Um, but then there was, and now there still is.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 12:52 And he wants to save the... He wants to talk about saving the flyweight division, then let's do it.

Joe Rogan 12:56 Well, I think he wants to go up.

TJ Dillashaw 12:57 Of course, because he-

Joe Rogan 12:58 Because then he can be champ-champ.

TJ Dillashaw 12:59 Of c- And I understand that. He-

Joe Rogan 13:00 When, wh- but there was no champ-champ before. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 13:03 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:03 It was when Conor came along. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 13:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Conor really changed the game in so many ways.

TJ Dillashaw 13:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:07 But I mean, one of the ways he changed the game was calling himself Champ-Champ.

TJ Dillashaw 13:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:10 Now everybody is Champ-Champ.

TJ Dillashaw 13:12 Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:12 You know, Ryan Bader's Champ-Champ.

TJ Dillashaw 13:14 Yep.

Joe Rogan 13:15 You know? I mean, Amanda Nunes is Champ-Champ.

TJ Dillashaw 13:17 I mean, it's a way to market yourself-

Joe Rogan 13:18 DC.

TJ Dillashaw 13:18 ... and get your name out there.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 13:20 I- i- it is a really big deal, you know? Um-

Joe Rogan 13:22 But the term champ-champ-

TJ Dillashaw 13:23 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:23 ... is like, that is a fucking Conor McGregor... That's a Conor McGregor term.

TJ Dillashaw 13:27 He's got some, uh, he's got some gold behind his touch, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:30 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 13:30 Anything he touches turns into gold

Narrator 13:31 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 13:32 ... not a lucky charm.

Joe Rogan 13:33 He's a character, man.

TJ Dillashaw 13:33 He is, man.

Joe Rogan 13:34 He really is.

TJ Dillashaw 13:34 He is. And, and I understand that. I mean, I'll fight Henry Cejudo at whatever weight he wants to fight at.

Joe Rogan 13:38 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 13:38 'Cause I g- I have no... I can't, I can't dictate where it goes, because I just, well, it just happen, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:43 Well, it seems like the correct way to do it would be at 25.

TJ Dillashaw 13:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:47 'Cause if you guys fought at 35, um, it's, you know, it's a different ball of wax.

TJ Dillashaw 13:52 100%.

Joe Rogan 13:52 And I, I just think, given the circumstances, and the fact that you did make the weight fairly, n- not easy. I would never say easy, 'cause-

TJ Dillashaw 13:59 I, oh, I would say easy. I mean, like I said, it's a lot of work, but dude, I can't believe how actual easy it was. Um, I mean, it was... Like, going through the graphs that Sam showed me, and it was remarkable. I got stronger. I was putting up more weight. So, the last week before I left, before my fight, I was snatching and cleaning, uh, more weight than my last Cody fight, and I was lighter. So my power ratio-

Joe Rogan 14:20 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 14:20 ... was insane. It almost is unheard of. Um, but I think it's because of how strict I had to be for those 12 weeks-

Joe Rogan 14:25 Hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 14:25 ... is maybe why. Um-

Joe Rogan 14:27 Like, what was your diet like? Like, what did you eat?

TJ Dillashaw 14:31 In and out of ke- I couldn't... You can't be in ketosis, obviously, 'cause I trained too hard, right? But, um, no grains. You know, if I'm eating carbs, it's simple carbs, things like that. Uh-

Joe Rogan 14:40 Like fruits?

TJ Dillashaw 14:41 Yeah, fruits, vegetables, sweet potatoes, things like that.

Joe Rogan 14:43 And are you weighing everything out?

TJ Dillashaw 14:45 They do all that. (sighs) I, I, I'm not doing it personally myself. Sam and his family do it. Um, the training lab, they make every meal, every snack I... So I'm eating three meals a day. I'm actually eating pretty good calories too. I'm eating three meals a day, two snacks a day. Um, but it's also about when I stop eating, my intermittent fasting, me doing my low base while I'm, while I'm fasting to get my body to be, um, burning 100% fats. And-

Joe Rogan 15:07 When you say, "Doing your low base," what do you mean by that?

TJ Dillashaw 15:09 Um, my, like, long distance, so-

Joe Rogan 15:11 Low cardio, slow movements-

TJ Dillashaw 15:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 15:14 ... long-

TJ Dillashaw 15:14 So it's not hard, right?

Joe Rogan 15:15 ... long sessions.

TJ Dillashaw 15:15 It's something-

Joe Rogan 15:15 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 15:15 ... where I keep my heart rate at a certain variable. Depending on what my VO₂ max is, what my RMR is, there's this crossover where your body starts burning carbs or it starts burning fats. If you're sprinting, you're going hard and hard and hard, your body's gonna start burning carbs, 'cause it needs to burn carbs to go that hard. But when you're at a certain level, like, so m- for instance, when I started camp, my crossover was at 145, so I need to keep my heart rate under 145 for maybe 45 minutes. Or maybe now I'm getting closer to where I need to b- lose more weight and need to go an hour.

Joe Rogan 15:44 So 145 is, uh, is that 80%? No, it's s- 70% of your heart rate? Must be.

TJ Dillashaw 15:50 Uh, everyone's is different.

Joe Rogan 15:51 Max, right.

TJ Dillashaw 15:51 It depends what your VO₂ is.

Joe Rogan 15:52 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 15:53 Um, I don't remember what mine was exactly, what, percentage wise?

Joe Rogan 15:55 But at 145 is the sweet spot where you're burning fat?

TJ Dillashaw 15:58 At the beginning of camp.

Joe Rogan 15:59 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 15:59 But towards the end of the camp, I can go to, like, 155-

Joe Rogan 16:02 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 16:02 ... because I got in better shape. Um, my, my, I, I don't know, I was just in better shape. I was a, a better f- machine to where I could go harder and still be in a fat-burning substrate.

Joe Rogan 16:13 Hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 16:13 Um, and then he would dictate if I needed to do 40 minutes in a minute, maybe an hour at night, and depending on how he wanted my body to react. And then he's also spiking and taking away my insulin levels to get my... 'Cause I don't wanna be in ketosis always, right? 'Cause my body will crash. But I need to be in it to get my body weight down without losing weight unhealthy. If I would've waited till the last two weeks to crash my weight, I would've been dehydrated. But all the way up until weigh-ins, my body was over 60 c- 60% hydrated. Most of camp out, I was 66% hydrated. Um, and that's because you don't only get hydrated from the water you drink, you're hydrated from the, the supplements you're gonna take and the food you're taking in i- inside your cells.

Joe Rogan 16:51 So when you say you're getting into keyso- ketosis, are you doing it 100% through diet or are you taking exogenous ketones?

TJ Dillashaw 16:58 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Are you doing anything else?

TJ Dillashaw 16:59 Just diet and the way I work out.

Joe Rogan 17:00 Diet, the way you work out.

TJ Dillashaw 17:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:02 And then the int- intermittent fasting is-

TJ Dillashaw 17:03 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 17:03 ... a 16-hour window you're using?

TJ Dillashaw 17:05 We switch it up. Um, w- when I was getting closer to fight, yeah. Um, but when I was further out, maybe, like, you know, 14 hours, things like that. And I wasn't... I didn't, I didn't have to intermittent fast the whole camp, you know? Just after a certain point when I needed to get my body weight even lower than it was at.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 17:21 There's this, (sniffs) this trend that we were following to continue to get my body weight down and he would, um, implement certain things to, to force it that direction.

Joe Rogan 17:30 Wow, it's just, I've never seen... I mean, I, I know some pretty well-documented training routines-

TJ Dillashaw 17:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:38 ... and diet routines, and, uh, some guys have really gotten into the weeds with this stuff.

TJ Dillashaw 17:41 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 17:42 But I don't think I've ever seen it like you.

TJ Dillashaw 17:44 Man, h- um, I was always into training a- and doing everything as, as well as I can, and, and finding every angle I could possibly be to be the best athlete. That's my competitive edge.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 17:53 Um, and then when I met Sam, I knew that was my next level.

Joe Rogan 17:56 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 17:56 Um, and I didn't realize that I had low tests n- before I met Sam, until he tested my levels and did my hair analysis and all that stuff. I didn't realize what was going on with my body. I just trained hard, and I thought I was training smart.

Joe Rogan 18:07 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 18:07 Um, but then I met Sam and he took it to a whole nother level.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Well, the training hard, sometimes the problem is your body just never really gets a chance to catch up.

TJ Dillashaw 18:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:15 It never really gets a chance to recover. And there's a lot of really good fighters that are doing that to themselves.

TJ Dillashaw 18:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 'Cause they're just... You know, especially wrestlers.

TJ Dillashaw 18:23 Wrestlers.

Joe Rogan 18:23 They have that mentality, just, they just fucking go.

TJ Dillashaw 18:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:26 They don't care if they're miserable, they're mentally tough, they keep pushing, and your body just is always behind the eight ball. You never really get a chance to recover.

TJ Dillashaw 18:33 I was redlining my body.

Joe Rogan 18:35 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 18:35 You know? I was, I was...... not eating right and I was working out as hard as I possibly could-

Joe Rogan 18:39 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 18:39 ... pounding the caffeine, uh, and my body just was telling me no, you know-

Joe Rogan 18:43 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 18:44 ... like my- my- my to- my testosterone was crashed and, like, to see where it's at now is amazing, you know.

Joe Rogan 18:48 And what did he do to boost it back up?

TJ Dillashaw 18:50 My diet, my supplementation, which all my supplements are- are food-based for the most part. I mean, there'll be supplements, but they're aminos and- and all whole food based stuff.

Joe Rogan 18:58 Magnesium, zinc.

TJ Dillashaw 18:59 Oh, yeah, magnesium, zincs, uh, tryptophans, ornithines, glycines, tyrosines, krill oils-

Joe Rogan 19:04 Oh, super excess chain amino acids, right.

TJ Dillashaw 19:05 All different ways a- and different times of taking depending on what I'm doing. Um, there's certain kind of creatines I'm taking. My proteins are all, uh, organic. Um, he's, uh, this company, Orgain, it's... I- I take a lot of their stuff. You know, their- their- their everything's tested or organic. Um, so everything I'm doing i- is all whole- whole food-based supplements. And then the way I'm training as well too, like... So he's listening to my heart rate variability when I sleep and-

Joe Rogan 19:30 So what are you- what are you wearing to register that?

TJ Dillashaw 19:32 Uh, I wear a heart rate monitor made by Suunto.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Okay, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 19:35 Um, but it's-

Joe Rogan 19:35 Great company.

TJ Dillashaw 19:36 ... uh, yeah, it's not so much the heart rate monitor that does it, it's his algorithm that does it. So every morning I wake up and my phone's connected to my watch, I send my- my heart rate too-

Joe Rogan 19:44 What kind of phone?

TJ Dillashaw 19:46 Uh, phone? Just a Apple phone. But it's just the- the app is, uh, Firstbeat I think it is.

Joe Rogan 19:51 But your watch, it's connected to your... Do you have an Apple Watch as well?

TJ Dillashaw 19:53 My Suunto... No, my Suunto watch and it connects-

Joe Rogan 19:55 Oh, so a Suunto watch. So it's one of those Traverse alphas, is that what it is?

TJ Dillashaw 19:57 Yeah, mine's, uh... Yeah, something like that.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 19:59 But it connects to your phone through Bluetooth and then, um-

Joe Rogan 20:03 And so you're wearing the monitor with the watch...

TJ Dillashaw 20:05 The watch is just on the nightstand, right?

Joe Rogan 20:06 Okay.

TJ Dillashaw 20:06 I sleep with the monitor on-

Joe Rogan 20:08 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 20:08 ... and it'll track me all the way through my sleep.

Joe Rogan 20:09 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 20:09 And you mainly want, like, you know, when you get into that REM sleep and it's, like, three hours in, it- it'll... Automatically when I wake up, I- I sync it to my phone, it sends it to his program, and then he's got an algorithm that'll tell me, like, what percentage of recovery I am, you know, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 20:22 So this is his own proprietary program that he's developed himself?

TJ Dillashaw 20:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:26 Jesus Christ.

TJ Dillashaw 20:27 He's taken him... I mean, dude, this guy's a genius, man.

Joe Rogan 20:30 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 20:30 Like, I'm telling you, like, me hanging out with him for two years and I finally getting it all somewhat down, you know.

Joe Rogan 20:35 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 20:36 I've learned so much from him. I mean, I've learned more from him in the last two years than I ever learned through school and I was kinesiology major. I was clin- clinical exercise science, I was gonna be a physician's assistant. I was always into the body. But just going and working out with him in his garage, little tiny, you know, garage, that it looks... Y- like you'd never think-

Joe Rogan 20:53 Humble.

TJ Dillashaw 20:53 ... world champions train there, ever.

Joe Rogan 20:54 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 20:54 You know, like, the Aaron Picos, the Juan Archuletas, myself, Cub Swanson, like, all these badass guys are going to train in there. It's just some little garage, but I've learned more from him in that garage than I've ever learned through any of my schools and become- wanted to become a physician's assistant.

Joe Rogan 21:07 That's crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 21:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Um, what did you think of the Pico fight?

TJ Dillashaw 21:11 Oh, man, so unfortunate.

Joe Rogan 21:13 Crazy, right?

TJ Dillashaw 21:13 'Cause he's just... He's such a killer that he wants to knock everyone out. Not only does he wanna be the best fighter in the world, but he wants to be the most entertaining fighter in the world, so he's looking to punish you. 'Cause he's got so many weapons that he doesn't use. Um, he's so good, man. Um, but he lives by the sword and he dies by the sword kinda thing, you know. He wants to be that- that knock-you-out entertaining fighter. He wants to be able to show a- a highlight reel of first round knockouts, you know. Um-

Joe Rogan 21:40 Which is great-

TJ Dillashaw 21:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:41 ... but you always have to understand that you are just like the guy right in front of you.

TJ Dillashaw 21:46 Yep.

Joe Rogan 21:46 And that one shot, especially in MMA-

TJ Dillashaw 21:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:49 ... one shot can turn it all around, and it did.

TJ Dillashaw 21:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:52 It was one of the most shocking knockouts I think I've ever seen. Because it looked like... He looked fucking phenomenal. He came out there and we knew that he had been training with you for this fight.

TJ Dillashaw 22:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:00 He was fucking shredded.

TJ Dillashaw 22:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:01 He looked like a world-beater.

TJ Dillashaw 22:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 22:03 Went out there, landed that clean uppercut, and then got just way carried away.

TJ Dillashaw 22:06 Yup. And it's- it's unfortunate 'cause you think I'm in shape and I do crazy things. This guy's putting me to shame. Like, a- in Sam's Garage, what he's able to do on the bike and just his workout regimen and, like, just how competitive he is. Man, he's a- he's a world-beater. He could be by far world champion, you know. There's some things that... He's g- he's so young, so he... There's some things we need to get to figure out. Everyone takes losses and, uh, hoping one of these is gonna s- spark him to realize w- how good he is everywhere, you know, and, uh, yeah, it's just an unfortunate situation, MMA.

Joe Rogan 22:36 Yeah, I mean, guys have bounced back from knockouts and-

TJ Dillashaw 22:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 22:40 ... and become world champions, unquestionably.

TJ Dillashaw 22:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:42 It's just, he's gotta make sure he doesn't have too many of those.

TJ Dillashaw 22:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:44 You know, and- and make sure he fights smart.

TJ Dillashaw 22:46 Agreed.

Joe Rogan 22:46 And uses the- use that goddamn wrestling.

TJ Dillashaw 22:49 Dude, it's insane wrestling too.

Joe Rogan 22:50 I mean, he's so good as a wrestler.

TJ Dillashaw 22:52 I know.

Joe Rogan 22:52 And when he gets that guy hurt, he's g- collar tie, they're- they're grabbing each other by the neck and just swinging shots. You're- you're flipping a coin, you're rolling the dice.

TJ Dillashaw 23:00 What, has he got six fights or something like that?

Joe Rogan 23:02 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:02 I mean, it's one of those inexperienced things.

Joe Rogan 23:03 And he's only 22.

TJ Dillashaw 23:04 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 23:05 That's the other thing.

TJ Dillashaw 23:06 And you realize, like, af-... When he dropped him, he could have jumped on him, he could have swarmed him-

Joe Rogan 23:09 Mm-hmm, sure.

TJ Dillashaw 23:09 ... like Henry did to me.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Yeah, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:10 You know, like, jump on him and- and swarm him-

Joe Rogan 23:12 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:12 ... and- and look for that finish. But, um, definitely-

Joe Rogan 23:16 You know, I think the inexperience kinda makes him realize, like, that maybe he's invincible and just... I don't know, man, there's- there's things that you kinda figure out when you've been out in the cage longer and longer and you've been around the career, you understand there's ways to finish a fight or- or how to outta just be a smart fighter- Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:30 ... that he'll figure out.

Joe Rogan 23:31 What was the whole experience like being on this ESPN card? Because it's a... That was historic moment, much like- like the Cain Velasquez versus Junior Dos Santos fight was the first-

TJ Dillashaw 23:39 Which also stopped the same way and- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:42 Well, no, that was the jet.

TJ Dillashaw 23:42 ... well, yeah, controversial, but-

Joe Rogan 23:44 That was not controversial.

TJ Dillashaw 23:44 But the punch though, the punch that landed-

Joe Rogan 23:46 Right, right.

TJ Dillashaw 23:46 ... was also behind the ear.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Yeah, same punch, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:48 You know, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:49 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:49 ... it's one of those things that you... I- it just takes your feet out from... If you've ever fought or if you've ever been in, um... got hit in the back of the head-

Joe Rogan 23:55 Weird.

TJ Dillashaw 23:56 ... your feet go out from underneath you, but you're there.

Joe Rogan 23:58 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 23:58 Like, you're 100% aware of what's going on, but your balance isn't there, then you have another grown man on top of you, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 24:03 So of course things are gonna happen. But, uh, with the ESPN it was really cool. The whole lead-up to it, they filmed... They came and filmed a lot. They- they were around a lot.

Joe Rogan 24:11 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 24:11 They did a lot of exposure. They, um... The stuff they put out was really cool and then just seeing, like, our commercial for a fight on national football on ESPN or for the colle-... You know, 'cause college, uh, was going on and then you'd see... The nationals was going on and you'd see me and H- Henry, like, three different commercials on ESPN. I thought that was pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 24:28 No, it was amazing.

TJ Dillashaw 24:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:29 You know, I mean, it really, uh... It's cool to see. It's cool to see that ESPN is embracing the sport and that it's getting into it and-... you know, there was a lot of hype behind this. And, you know, I got ESPN+. I was-

TJ Dillashaw 24:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 ... you know?

TJ Dillashaw 24:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 I mean, I'm not a sports fan. I don't watch sport. I don't even know what's happening. Like, when people are like, "What are you doing for the Super Bowl?" I'm like, "When's that?"

TJ Dillashaw 24:47 (laughs) That's exactly what I do.

Joe Rogan 24:48 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 24:49 I don't have time for it, man.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 24:51 Um, I- I'm a, I'm a Raiders fan-

Joe Rogan 24:52 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 24:53 ... but I don't have time to really watch, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:54 Right. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 24:55 Um, but yeah, I mean, it's just... When you think of sports, you think of ESPN.

Joe Rogan 24:59 Yeah, you really do.

TJ Dillashaw 25:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:00 I mean, it's another level of acceptance-

TJ Dillashaw 25:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:02 ... in the, in the sports world.

TJ Dillashaw 25:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 The only thing that kind of bummed me out, and I should probably b- clarify this because I talked about this on the podcast, was the Hardy fight. And not, not even because I don't think the guy should be fighting or not even because I think y- I... Uh, you know, I don't, I don't really know what he did in terms of his past. I, I know there's a lot of, there's a lot of shit, right? I mean, he was in trouble for something, there was an appeal, and he got off of it somehow.

TJ Dillashaw 25:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:30 I don't know.

TJ Dillashaw 25:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 But I'm only talking about it from a fighting perspective.

TJ Dillashaw 25:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:35 You're watching the highest level fights. You're watching the co-main event.

TJ Dillashaw 25:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:41 He's just not ready for a co-main event.

TJ Dillashaw 25:42 No. Like, technically, no.

Joe Rogan 25:44 No way.

TJ Dillashaw 25:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:45 Just, he w- He rushed out, he gassed out, q- he, he burned himself out. Crowder recovered-

TJ Dillashaw 25:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:51 ... and it just... It's not... The way it should be is you should have... The early fights are people who are learning the sport.

TJ Dillashaw 25:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:59 And then when you get to the last couple of fights, the co-main and the main, you're supposed to be seeing assassins like you and Henry Cejudo.

TJ Dillashaw 26:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:08 That's what you're supposed to be seeing.

TJ Dillashaw 26:09 And cr-

Joe Rogan 26:10 I just-

TJ Dillashaw 26:10 Yeah, crazy thing about our sport is there's a lot of entertainment behind it as well too.

Joe Rogan 26:13 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 26:13 So if you're hyped up, you get pushed up the ladder. Maybe you get title fights sooner than you should, and-

Joe Rogan 26:18 That's crazy-

TJ Dillashaw 26:18 ... and it is-

Joe Rogan 26:19 ... to me.

TJ Dillashaw 26:19 ... I mean, 'cause now we're on ESPN, now we're like-

Joe Rogan 26:22 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 26:22 ... we're an official sp- I mean, we've been an official sport, but yeah, it should be more on the level like you're talking about of the actual skill level and how you're ranked. I mean, Cowboy Cerrone and, uh, the Alex kid should've been the, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:32 100%.

TJ Dillashaw 26:33 ... co-main event.

Joe Rogan 26:34 100%. I was stunned that it wasn't.

TJ Dillashaw 26:36 They-

Joe Rogan 26:37 I couldn't imagine.

TJ Dillashaw 26:37 ... they were on real, they were on ESPN though. They wanted to kinda hype up ESPN+.

Joe Rogan 26:41 I get that.

TJ Dillashaw 26:41 You know, so-

Joe Rogan 26:42 That makes sense.

TJ Dillashaw 26:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:43 That makes sense for that reason.

TJ Dillashaw 26:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:45 But there's another fight they could've put in place of that.

TJ Dillashaw 26:47 I agree.

Joe Rogan 26:48 100%. And again, this is not a knock on Crowder or Hardy.

TJ Dillashaw 26:51 No.

Joe Rogan 26:51 There are guys out there doing it. They're, they're trying. They're, they're-

TJ Dillashaw 26:54 They did their job.

Joe Rogan 26:54 ... they did their job.

TJ Dillashaw 26:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:55 They're fighting. I mean, the, uh, the ending was super unfortunate.

TJ Dillashaw 26:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:59 Again, you don't know whether or not he did it on purpose, whether he had a mental... Look, you're getting punched in the face.

TJ Dillashaw 27:05 That stuff happens so fast.

Joe Rogan 27:06 It's chaos.

TJ Dillashaw 27:06 Yeah, I mean, especially 'cause he is-

Joe Rogan 27:08 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 27:08 ... so new, right?

Joe Rogan 27:09 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 27:09 He hasn't been fighting forever.

Joe Rogan 27:10 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 27:11 Like, that stuff just happens. Like, "Oh, I got him hurt." Boom.

Joe Rogan 27:13 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 27:13 You know?

Joe Rogan 27:14 Exactly.

TJ Dillashaw 27:14 Like, there's things, like, I've even done in practice, I'm like, "Oh, shit, dude, I'm so-"

Joe Rogan 27:17 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 27:17 "I'm in practice and I did something." I'm like, "Oh, man, that was stupid." Like, if that happens in a fight-

Joe Rogan 27:21 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 27:21 ... I'm losing a point. Like, I'm so sorry, you know? Like...

Joe Rogan 27:24 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 27:24 I think it's-

Joe Rogan 27:24 It just bums me out that this rush to commercialization, that this, this rush to trying to get the, the most eyes on it, the people that are watching it... If you- you watch something where there's two guys who really aren't ready for a co-main event-

TJ Dillashaw 27:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:38 ... you're seeing sloppiness and guys getting out of gas real quick. And you're seeing all the things that you're supposed to learn early in your career so that by the time you get to a co-main event, you know, you're a fucking assassin.

TJ Dillashaw 27:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:50 You're, you're locked down and 100% professional.

TJ Dillashaw 27:54 Yep.

Joe Rogan 27:54 You're a real elite pro fighter. That's what I wanna see when I'm watching ESPN.

TJ Dillashaw 27:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 28:00 That's what I wanna see.

TJ Dillashaw 28:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:01 I wanna see the best of the best.

TJ Dillashaw 28:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 28:03 I wanna see world-class fighters fighting with precision and power and speed and knowing how to pace themselves. Guys with experience, they've been there before, they know how to recover from... They get cracked, they know how to lay back, they know how to hold on. They know how to do what they need to do in order to win or fight their best.

TJ Dillashaw 28:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:21 Instead of, like, just... Like, you're seeing thing- And so many people are seeing this at this point.

TJ Dillashaw 28:27 And I feel like we're getting fans now that are more knowledgeable, like yourself, and, and, and people are seeing the sport and they're understanding technique now, to where before maybe it didn't matter.

Joe Rogan 28:36 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 28:37 You didn't know what bad technique is now, you know? But we get more knowledgeable fans to where they are gonna start realizing, like, "What was that?" Like...

Joe Rogan 28:42 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 28:43 You know?

Joe Rogan 28:43 And the last thing you wanna see is two heavyweights gassed out.

TJ Dillashaw 28:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 28:46 That is the fucking worst.

TJ Dillashaw 28:48 The worst, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:49 (laughs) Do you remember when, um... What was it? Ben Rothwell fought... Was it Mark Hunt? I think it was Ben Rothwell and Mark Hunt fought in... I wanna say it's those two guys, but I might be wrong. See if that's... In Denver. They made them fight at altitude.

TJ Dillashaw 29:04 I remember the fight in Denver. I don't know if it was them either, but yeah, it was-

Joe Rogan 29:06 It was fucking ridiculous-

TJ Dillashaw 29:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:08 ... 'cause they're, they're at altitude-

TJ Dillashaw 29:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:10 ... and they're so goddamn tired.

TJ Dillashaw 29:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:12 And they're like fucking... And the UFC is like, "We're never gonna do a heavyweight fight again ever at altitude."

TJ Dillashaw 29:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:17 Was it? Yeah, it was Ben Rothwell and Mark Hunt. But then they wound up doing Cain Velasquez and, um, uh...

TJ Dillashaw 29:23 Werdum?

Joe Rogan 29:24 Werdum, Fabricio Werdum.

TJ Dillashaw 29:24 Mexico City?

Joe Rogan 29:25 In Mexico City, which is even higher. It's 2,000 feet above Do- Denver.

TJ Dillashaw 29:28 Werdum was smart and went up there early.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yeah, way early.

TJ Dillashaw 29:30 He looked like a killer out there, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:32 Yeah, way early.

TJ Dillashaw 29:32 Um, and, and, and I think, from what I remember, that Cain went out there two weeks before the fight-

Joe Rogan 29:38 Yeah. No, I know.

TJ Dillashaw 29:38 ... which actually makes it worse for you. You'd be better off if you went up there three days before the fight 'cause your body's still in shock-

Joe Rogan 29:44 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 29:44 ... rather than going up there in two weeks, and now your body's screwed.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 29:47 You know, you need to be there... If you're gonna be there early, go six weeks.

Joe Rogan 29:50 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 29:50 Or more. Don't, don't go less. If you're gonna go less, come a th- like, a couple of days 'cause your body's still in shock, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:55 And you see how a fight like that can literally change the course of a fighter's career.

TJ Dillashaw 29:59 Yes, yes.

Joe Rogan 30:00 I mean, it changed Cain's career in many ways, you know?

TJ Dillashaw 30:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:03 One, one loss like that to a guy like Fabricio Werdum-

TJ Dillashaw 30:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:07 ... you know, um, he's fighting real, real soon-

TJ Dillashaw 30:09 I'm excited for that fight.

Joe Rogan 30:10 ... against Fr- Francis Ngannou. Hope he's healthy.

TJ Dillashaw 30:12 I hope he's healthy.

Joe Rogan 30:12 Oh, shit.He has to be.

TJ Dillashaw 30:13 I hope so.

Joe Rogan 30:14 Goddamn it.

TJ Dillashaw 30:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:15 I mean, if he's not, he's in trouble.

TJ Dillashaw 30:17 'Cause man, he could be the best heavyweight. I mean, I think-

Joe Rogan 30:19 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 30:19 ... he was the best heavyweight, just unfortunate situations where he didn't get to-

Joe Rogan 30:23 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 30:23 ... to prove that. I mean, he's one of the...

Joe Rogan 30:24 Well, I think his thing was that his body just couldn't deal with his mind.

TJ Dillashaw 30:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:30 Like his mind is so strong-

TJ Dillashaw 30:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:32 ... and his, his will and his work ethic is so powerful. And that goddamn camp of killers up in-

TJ Dillashaw 30:38 It's true.

Joe Rogan 30:39 ... San Jose.

TJ Dillashaw 30:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:40 AKA is just assassin central.

TJ Dillashaw 30:43 And just the years of wrestling.

Joe Rogan 30:44 Yeah. Mm-hmm, yep.

TJ Dillashaw 30:44 I mean, wrestling hurt me more than anything.

Joe Rogan 30:47 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 30:48 Anything from that I still do today, wr- even if I get hurt today, it's from wrestling practice. It's, wrestling's the hardest thing on my body. Um, your neck, your back, your shoulders. It, it, I mean, it's, it's rough. You know, Sam Calvita's son right now, uh, AJ, he's been on the couch for the last four months, and it was from wrestling. He hurt his back. He, uh, bulging disc in his back or, um, herniated disc, um, from wrestling. And he's 16 years old now.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Jesus Christ.

TJ Dillashaw 31:13 You know?

Joe Rogan 31:14 That's a rough one when you're that young and you hurt your back.

TJ Dillashaw 31:16 Yeah, man, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 31:17 Yeah, so it's a, it's a-

Joe Rogan 31:18 What part of his back? His lower?

TJ Dillashaw 31:19 Yeah, lower back, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:20 What's he got him doing for it?

TJ Dillashaw 31:22 Uh...

Joe Rogan 31:22 I would always assume a guy like that knows exactly what to do to try to heal something like that up.

TJ Dillashaw 31:25 Yes, well, he's been doing... So we've been, uh, he's had to, we, they tried doing everything naturally, but he's had to go and get a couple epidurals now, um, to kind of d- shrink the swelling so that, um, uh, obviously it's not... So it's pushing on a nerve.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 31:37 And so it's messing with the sciatic nerve and it's hard for him to walk. He was having to crawl around the house like a dog, like-

Joe Rogan 31:42 Jesus Christ.

TJ Dillashaw 31:43 ... laid on the couch forever. Now he's starting to walk, um, but Sam's got him out in the garage doing pull-ups 'cause that's the only thing he can do.

Joe Rogan 31:49 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 31:49 Um, because it's a decompression, you know?

Joe Rogan 31:51 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 31:51 He's able to hold onto the bar at least and, and get some pull-ups in and start to strengthen his back so that it will hold his spine kind of where it needs to be. 'Cause I mean-

Joe Rogan 31:58 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 31:58 ... he's losing insane amounts of muscle mass. I mean, this kid was 16 years old, looking good, working out with his dad out in the garage and then gets hurt, now he looks like a, a different person. Um, I feel-

Joe Rogan 32:08 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 32:08 I feel bad for him being a 16-year-old kid, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:10 Well, I, I definitely feel bad that he looks bad, but, um, I really feel bad that he's got that kind of an injury at 16.

TJ Dillashaw 32:16 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:16 That's a, that's an injury you see with guys in their twenties and thirties, and you, you know-

TJ Dillashaw 32:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:21 ... you realize it's a li- lifetime of beating on it that it... When you get to that when you're 16, that's not good.

TJ Dillashaw 32:26 Yeah. Yeah, I dealt with it in my neck, um, in college and then also early in my fighting career, and it messes with you.

Joe Rogan 32:32 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 32:32 I had to get a, a epidural shot in my neck, throughout the front.

Joe Rogan 32:35 Bulging disc?

TJ Dillashaw 32:36 Uh, yeah, it was pushing on a nerve-

Joe Rogan 32:37 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 32:37 ... and I lost like 70% of the strength in my left arm, and-

Joe Rogan 32:40 Damn.

TJ Dillashaw 32:40 ... it's rough, man.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Yeah, I was on my way to the exact same thing. I was getting numbness in the hands and the ulnar nerve, which goes from, like, your pinky down through your elbow. I was getting pain in my elbow.

TJ Dillashaw 32:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:50 But I got real lucky that I found, uh, a good doctor, got some spinal decompression and Regenakene.

TJ Dillashaw 32:56 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:56 Regenakene really fixed it for me.

TJ Dillashaw 32:58 Heard about that.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Yeah, it's that blood spinning procedure.

TJ Dillashaw 33:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:00 They heat up your blood, and then they, um, they, they run it through a centrifuge and they pull this yellow serum out of it. There was a, we, we-

TJ Dillashaw 33:08 Is that your plasma, right?

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yeah, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 33:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:10 We detailed it, what it is. We showed a thing from the website that shows the stuff they add to it, but it was pretty remarkable. And a lot of people with back injuries are finding real, real powerful relief with that, because not only does it reduce the inflammation, but it actually really speeds up your healing.

TJ Dillashaw 33:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:27 Um, but for me, um, the spinal decompression was like one of the best things ever.

TJ Dillashaw 33:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Just that harness that you strap on your neck and hang from the door.

TJ Dillashaw 33:35 Yeah. Okay.

Joe Rogan 33:36 That fucking thing's amazing, that click, click, click.

TJ Dillashaw 33:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:38 Have you done that one?

TJ Dillashaw 33:39 I have the one that it's, it's not as nice as that one. I've used it where like you pump it up, it's like a little-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Oh, that's a good one too.

TJ Dillashaw 33:43 ... it's like a little-

Joe Rogan 33:44 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 33:45 ... um, neck brace you put on.

Joe Rogan 33:46 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 33:46 And it like hardly fits on anything and you pump it up.

Joe Rogan 33:47 Fill with air.

TJ Dillashaw 33:48 It really stretches your neck out.

Joe Rogan 33:49 Yeah, that's great too.

TJ Dillashaw 33:50 I'm like, "I'm gonna try to get taller." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:52 (laughs) Well, you definitely get shorter as you get older.

TJ Dillashaw 33:54 That's true.

Joe Rogan 33:54 And that's what it is.

TJ Dillashaw 33:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:55 I mean, Eddie Bravo gained an inch. He's, uh, he's 5'9" now because he had a disc replaced.

TJ Dillashaw 34:00 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Yeah. Well, all the years of jujitsu-

TJ Dillashaw 34:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:03 ... and weightlifting and wrestling, everything is getting squashed.

TJ Dillashaw 34:07 Especially him folding himself in half all the time.

Joe Rogan 34:09 Yeah. Oh, his lower back was destroyed.

TJ Dillashaw 34:10 I can imagine.

Joe Rogan 34:11 Destroyed.

TJ Dillashaw 34:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:12 And also, he's not the kinda guy who balances everything out. Like he just kinda doesn't and smokes weed-

TJ Dillashaw 34:17 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:17 ... and goes, he eats a burrito, you know.

TJ Dillashaw 34:20 (laughs) Yeah. That's hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:21 So his lower back was just fucked, beyond fucked.

TJ Dillashaw 34:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:24 It was essentially bone on bone.

TJ Dillashaw 34:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:27 And, uh, would just constant state of inflammation. He was always in pain. Like, he'd be standing up, like if we were somewhere, like say if we went to a bar and had a couple drinks or something like that, he'd be standing up, he'd be in pain just standing for too long. And this is a world-class jujitsu practitioner.

TJ Dillashaw 34:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:41 So he had his disc replaced. They put it-

TJ Dillashaw 34:42 And gained an inch?

Joe Rogan 34:43 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 34:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 34:44 Yeah, they put a... Well, I mean, he had nothing and then all of a sudden he's got an inch of disc.

TJ Dillashaw 34:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 34:48 And it's a titanium, uh, articulating disc, so it actually moves around. It's not fused.

TJ Dillashaw 34:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 34:54 So it's, in the old days, they would take your, your two, y- these, you know, the vertebrae-

TJ Dillashaw 34:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:58 ... and lock them together and screw them in place and s- nightmare because... And it puts an artificial load on the upper disc above it-

TJ Dillashaw 35:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:06 ... and the lower disc-

TJ Dillashaw 35:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:07 ... 'cause now there's this unusual leverage there. But instead of that, now they use a disc, an actual disc, they put it in place and-

TJ Dillashaw 35:14 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:14 ... it lasts a long-ass fucking time and it moves around like you and he doesn't have any pain anymore. And guys are back to rolling. And I know, uh, you know, some real h- uh, Chris Weidman actually just got a disc replaced in his neck.

TJ Dillashaw 35:25 I saw that as well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:27 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 35:27 No, but Cain had his fused, right? 'Cause he had back problems and his, was his fused? Did he-

Joe Rogan 35:31 He's got a bunch of shit going on in his back.

TJ Dillashaw 35:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:33 He's had multiple back surgeries.

TJ Dillashaw 35:34 Man, it sucks.

Joe Rogan 35:35 I don't know the exact extent of all the different surgeries that he got, but-

TJ Dillashaw 35:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:39 ... he's definitely got a lot of stuff going on in his back.

TJ Dillashaw 35:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 35:42 Yeah. Inter- interesting to see him, but I hope he comes back healthy and looks good.

Joe Rogan 35:45 Look, man, um, skill for skill, ability for ability, I think he, if he's not the best of all time, it's him and Fedor.

TJ Dillashaw 35:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:52 You know? And then you always have to mention Werdum, 'cause even though Stipe knocked Werdum out in the first round, Werdum has submitted the best of the best.

TJ Dillashaw 36:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:00 He submitted Minotauro, he submitted Fedor, he submitted Cain. I mean, what the fuck?

TJ Dillashaw 36:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 36:05 I mean, that, that guy is just... For Doom- Werdum's record, it, if you just look at-

TJ Dillashaw 36:10 Who he's fought.

Joe Rogan 36:11 ... who he's fought, he's the best.

TJ Dillashaw 36:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:12 I- in my opinion.

TJ Dillashaw 36:13 And for how long he's been around. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:15 Right. But it's like, but when did he beat those guys? Like-

TJ Dillashaw 36:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:18 ... when did he beat those guys? Did he beat those... Like when he beat Fedor, Fedor was as close to his prime-... as you can get when, you know, like, it's hard to say. Like, the Brett Rogers fight, a lot of people were saying he wasn't as focused for the Brett Rogers fight, but he still knocked him out with one punch. Remember that crazy-

TJ Dillashaw 36:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:34 ... fucking KO?

TJ Dillashaw 36:35 Anytime. You-

Joe Rogan 36:36 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 36:36 ... gotta be ready for Fedor with one punch.

Joe Rogan 36:37 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 36:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:38 But Werdum handled him, you know, on the ground, submitted him. You know, I would have loved to seen what it was like in pride if he- he could fight him when Fedor was at his peak-

TJ Dillashaw 36:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:48 ... like back when he beat Minotauro.

TJ Dillashaw 36:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:49 But Werdum, you know, he's- he's overlooked in th- in that argument of who's the best. And in terms of, like, accomplishments as a UFC fighter, well, it's Stipe, because Stipe is the only guy to defend the title four times and it really kind of bums me out that he's out of the conversation right now.

TJ Dillashaw 37:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:04 You don't hear about a Stipe fight. I mean-

TJ Dillashaw 37:07 He's like a two ... Which I feel like he should get more attention for this. He's just a normal guy, like, he has a full-time job-

Joe Rogan 37:12 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 37:12 ... where he's a firefighter-

Joe Rogan 37:13 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 37:13 ... like, I feel like more people should resonate with him because of that.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 37:16 But they don't. I don't-

Joe Rogan 37:17 He's a fucking great guy, too.

TJ Dillashaw 37:19 I- I feel like you have to- it's gotta be an asshole to get attention these days. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:21 (sighs) I don't know. I mean, I feel like if he had beaten DC and, you know, I mean, he beat Francis, that was a big fight-

TJ Dillashaw 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:29 ... 'cause Francis came into that fight with a lot of hype and Sti-

TJ Dillashaw 37:31 That Overeem knockout, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Yeah. Stipe fought like a fucking champion.

TJ Dillashaw 37:34 Yep.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Really fought like a champion.

TJ Dillashaw 37:36 Smart.

Joe Rogan 37:36 And he showed Francis. And, look, Francis fought after that. He was not the same thing.

TJ Dillashaw 37:40 No.

Joe Rogan 37:40 When he fought after that and he fought Derrick Lewis-

TJ Dillashaw 37:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:42 ... you could see he was still-

TJ Dillashaw 37:44 He didn't wanna throw anything. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:45 Right? He was still fucked up from that last fight.

TJ Dillashaw 37:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:47 And he admitted it, to his credit. You know? And he bounced back with the Curtis Blaydes fight.

TJ Dillashaw 37:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:52 And looked fantastic-

TJ Dillashaw 37:52 Which is a big one for him-

Joe Rogan 37:53 ... in that fight.

TJ Dillashaw 37:53 ... 'cause Blaydes is an awesome wrestler.

Joe Rogan 37:55 Exactly.

TJ Dillashaw 37:56 Uh, Cla- Blay- Blaydes is a very athletic wrestler.

Joe Rogan 37:58 He's huge. Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 37:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:59 He's big, he's fast, he's powerful.

TJ Dillashaw 38:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:01 And, you know, and that's twice Francis has beaten him, twice he stopped him.

TJ Dillashaw 38:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:05 That was his first UFC fight.

TJ Dillashaw 38:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:07 So, um, he stopped him then and he stopped him in this one as well. So, coming into this fight with Cain, you know, there's- there's a lot of questions. We haven't seen Cain in two years.

TJ Dillashaw 38:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 Right? It's been about two years?

TJ Dillashaw 38:18 Yeah. Uh, it- it- it may be even longer.

Joe Rogan 38:20 Let's see, when was the last time Cain Velasquez fought?

TJ Dillashaw 38:22 It's been a long time.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Yeah, I think you might be right.

TJ Dillashaw 38:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:24 I think it might be three years.

TJ Dillashaw 38:25 Mm-hmm. It's been a while.

Joe Rogan 38:26 It's crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 38:26 I know.

Joe Rogan 38:27 But when- when he was at the top of the food chain, when Cain was at the top, he would put a fucking storm on these people that was just like 100-year storm that would never end.

TJ Dillashaw 38:35 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:36 It's like, how does this guy have this kind of endurance?

TJ Dillashaw 38:37 And to see Werdum to do that in- to- to him-

Joe Rogan 38:40 I know. Crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 38:40 ... in, uh, Mexico City was crazy. I thought it was gonna be the other way around.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Yeah, it was crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 38:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:43 Just to see Cain tired.

TJ Dillashaw 38:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:45 So here we go, 2016, yep, July 9th, so two and a half years.

TJ Dillashaw 38:49 Yeah, almost, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Yeah. And that was Travis Browne, which was a- just a phenomenal beating.

TJ Dillashaw 38:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:54 Um, and that was, uh, UFC 200. Yeah. And they did, the Junior dos Santos one, the one-

TJ Dillashaw 39:00 And the fight before that was a year.

Joe Rogan 39:02 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 39:02 You know? So he's like-

Joe Rogan 39:03 Fabrício, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 39:03 ... he's not- it's not like he's been active.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Well, he had shoulder surgery.

TJ Dillashaw 39:05 And then 2013, look at those gaps.

Joe Rogan 39:07 Yeah. Yep. Yep.

TJ Dillashaw 39:08 Dang.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Two-year gaps.

TJ Dillashaw 39:10 Yep.

Joe Rogan 39:10 Two-year gaps, one year, two-year again.

TJ Dillashaw 39:13 That's rough, man. That's rough.

Joe Rogan 39:14 Yeah, it is rough. It is rough.

TJ Dillashaw 39:16 Especially when this is your job and how you get paid. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:18 (laughs) Fuck yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 39:19 You know?

Joe Rogan 39:19 Right? Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 39:20 They're lucky he's a heavyweight and they, uh, get taken care of a little more, but, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:24 Yeah. I mean, it's just, I wonder how- how much you could fix all that stuff that's going on in the spine.

TJ Dillashaw 39:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:32 You know? I mean, it's one thing if a guy gets a knee ... f- you know, he's got a ACL or something like that, you know that you can come back from that.

TJ Dillashaw 39:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:38 That's 100% possible.

TJ Dillashaw 39:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:40 But back stuff is weird. Once- it seems like once things start going, it's like you- y- like your car, you know? Once a ball joint blows out and the axle starts w- grinding-

TJ Dillashaw 39:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:50 ... and you're like, "Oh, Jesus."

TJ Dillashaw 39:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:51 It's like a bunch of shit's gonna go wrong.

TJ Dillashaw 39:53 Something that that's, like, your core.

Joe Rogan 39:55 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 39:55 You know?

Joe Rogan 39:56 But, uh, at- at his best, man, he's- was fucking terrifying.

TJ Dillashaw 40:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:00 'Cause it's just I'd never saw a heavyweight with that kind of endurance.

TJ Dillashaw 40:03 Man, I remember being so scared of Cain Velasquez when I was a ki- I think I talked about this last time on your podcast, when I was a kid wrestling in college, 'cause I was, like, this tiny ass little white boy wrestler and Cain would walk around with just his singlet straps on and shorts, and he had "Brown Pride" tattooed across his chest. He's this huge heavyweight wrestling D1 for ASU. I was just, like, so scared of that guy. I was like, "Damn, look at that guy, man." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:23 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 40:23 Just walking around like Wonder, probably rip my head off, has "Brown Pride" tattooed on his chest-

Joe Rogan 40:27 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 40:27 ... just wearing just his singlet straps, just huge. It's funny.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 40:31 I remember him forever, man.

Joe Rogan 40:32 Well, y- you know, him and DC having that kind of a relationship is such an- a unique situation for the two fighters-

TJ Dillashaw 40:40 Yep.

Joe Rogan 40:40 ... that they have, uh, you know, another elite guy that's their size-

TJ Dillashaw 40:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:44 ... and they just smash each other left and right-

TJ Dillashaw 40:46 And-

Joe Rogan 40:46 ... and work with each other.

TJ Dillashaw 40:47 That's what I try to create wherever I go. Um, and that's what we're doing in Southern California, you know, Warner Chuleta, Aaron Picos, uh, Cub Swansons. We're trying to build a room of smaller guys that we can ... But we're a lot- we don't wanna kill each other, right?

Joe Rogan 40:59 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 40:59 And that's something that we- I- I've always had to control myself. I've always gone really hard on something I've had to learn to control. Um, but having that room full of killers so that when we go to wrestling practice, like, you don't know if you're gonna have a good practice. You might be getting beat up on that day.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 41:12 You know? And you go home and be all pissed off, like, "Shit, I had a bad practice. I got taken down with this," but that's what makes you better for the next practice. If you just go to practice and beat up on everyone every day, you're never gonna know what you need to change or what you need to get better at. So, I think that's why, uh, Cain and- and DC have gotten so good so quick at MMA, they had each other to build off of, you know, and stay-

Joe Rogan 41:30 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 41:30 ... in what we're trying to-

Joe Rogan 41:31 If you can survive it.

TJ Dillashaw 41:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:32 If you survive it.

TJ Dillashaw 41:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:34 Yeah. And that- you know, like the knock on AKA, some people said they train too hard 'cause they're always injured, but-

TJ Dillashaw 41:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:39 ... look at the amount of champions they produced.

TJ Dillashaw 41:41 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Look at the amount of fucking killers that have come out of there, Luke Rockhold-

TJ Dillashaw 41:45 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:45 ... DC, Cain-

TJ Dillashaw 41:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:47 ... Khabib.

TJ Dillashaw 41:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:48 I mean, get the fuck outta here.

TJ Dillashaw 41:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:49 That place is a- a- a den of assassins.

TJ Dillashaw 41:52 Yeah, if you can survive it, right?

Joe Rogan 41:53 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 41:53 I mean, that's perfect. I mean, yeah, I mean ...

Joe Rogan 41:55 That's the only way, man.

TJ Dillashaw 41:56 I agree.

Joe Rogan 41:57 I mean, look, it's not good to spar full clip like old school Lion's Den days-

TJ Dillashaw 42:01 Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:01 ... where they used to beat the shit out of each o- or the Miletich days. I mean, nobody knew any- anything back then.

TJ Dillashaw 42:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:07 They didn't know the consequences, they didn't know what it's like.

TJ Dillashaw 42:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:10 It was- speaking of which, um, there's an article in The New York Times today that I was reading on, uh, a guy that we knew, Jason Hairston-

TJ Dillashaw 42:17 Mm-Hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:17 ... um, and it just talks about his CTE and how bad it was. And, um, you know, uh, Jason is a guy who founded this clothing company that we know called Kuiu.

TJ Dillashaw 42:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 And, um-... he, he'd been on the podcast before. I knew him pretty well.

TJ Dillashaw 42:32 It's just- yeah, it's crazy 'cause something you knew never would have guessed-

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 42:34 ... how bad it was either.

Joe Rogan 42:36 It's- yeah, because-

TJ Dillashaw 42:37 Every time I-

Joe Rogan 42:37 ... he-

TJ Dillashaw 42:37 ... saw him, he was happy, he's awesome, like-

Joe Rogan 42:39 For people who don't know the story-

TJ Dillashaw 42:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:39 ... he committed suicide, um, about a year ago or so.

TJ Dillashaw 42:43 Yeah, about that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:44 And, um, (sighs) no one i- no one outside of it saw it coming.

TJ Dillashaw 42:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:48 It was a, a ju- just a giant crazy blow. And, um, you know, I was, uh, texting back and forth with one of his friends and, uh, you know, essentially said, "He had a broken brain, man." It didn't make sense because you- when your brain's broken, it's like-

TJ Dillashaw 43:04 (sniffs)

Joe Rogan 43:04 ... having a broken phone. It's like having a broken anything. It's just broken.

TJ Dillashaw 43:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:08 It's not, it's not working right. It, uh, it's-

TJ Dillashaw 43:10 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 43:10 ... irrational. It doesn't make sense.

TJ Dillashaw 43:12 I couldn't imagine the thoughts that had to have been going through his head to have that happen 'cause, like, I was texting him two weeks before it happened, like talking about going on a hunt with him and doing this and that. And he's, like, talking about how great the business is doing. Like, you'd think he's living the American dream. Like, that's a-

Joe Rogan 43:25 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 43:25 ... awesome, you know? So it's tough, man. I couldn't even, I couldn't even put myself, like, to have that kinda torture, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:30 Well, you know, he was friends with Donald Jr., Donald Trump, Jr. And, uh, you know, they hunted together. And h- he was talking to him just a p- p- p- few hours before.

TJ Dillashaw 43:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:39 Like, everything was fine.

TJ Dillashaw 43:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 You know? They were going back and forth with each other. Everybody was blown away. Like, what happened? Like, how, how could this possibly happen?

TJ Dillashaw 43:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:47 But, you know-

TJ Dillashaw 43:48 Scary thing. More reason for us to be smart as we possibly can with our training.

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 43:52 And-

Joe Rogan 43:52 100%.

TJ Dillashaw 43:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:52 That's what I was gonna get into.

TJ Dillashaw 43:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:54 This, um, the- that you- there is a way to train hard but save your body from es- especially critical damage like brain damage.

TJ Dillashaw 44:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:03 There is a way to do that.

TJ Dillashaw 44:04 And Duane has been a savior to me because of that. You know, Duane with his experience of fighting-

Joe Rogan 44:09 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 44:09 ... and being through the gyms, and him probably going too hard himself, we've learned a lot of, uh, hard drilling and, and live drilling, uh, through him that is probably gonna prolong my career and hopefully my life. And, and not going as hard and just sparring 'cause like before, before Duane when I was at Alpha Male, we sparred like three or four times a week. We just went, you know? That's what-

Joe Rogan 44:28 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 44:28 ... we did. We were wrestlers, and that's how we knew how to get better was just go.

Joe Rogan 44:31 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 44:31 And then he came in and started teaching us, like, how to drill and how to, to really get better in your reaction times, everything with, with fighting without having to beat yourself up so much. My injuries were less. I wasn't getting injured as much. Um, and, and I honestly got a lot better too, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Yeah, I think sparring is critical.

TJ Dillashaw 44:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:49 I think it is important, but I think maybe as critical or maybe more is drilling.

TJ Dillashaw 44:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:53 And, uh, this is with all martial arts, including jujitsu. And jujitsu, it's so- you know, you know, you do jujitsu.

TJ Dillashaw 44:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 44:59 It's fun, so everybody wants to just slap hands-

TJ Dillashaw 45:02 (slaps hands)

Joe Rogan 45:02 ... punch knuckles-

TJ Dillashaw 45:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:03 ... and start rolling-

TJ Dillashaw 45:04 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:04 ... 'cause it's fun.

TJ Dillashaw 45:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:05 It's fun to- it's like a fun game you're doing.

TJ Dillashaw 45:07 It's a good release.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah. I- but the best way to get better at it is to constantly drill.

TJ Dillashaw 45:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:13 And then you develop these pathways that are just (snaps fingers) ingrained in your subconscious. And so when you're in that half guard position, you immediately go for that underhook. You immediately- you know the path.

TJ Dillashaw 45:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:23 You know where to go instead of ad-libbing and thinking while you're in the middle of a roll. And when you see guys that come from camps where they don't drill, they only do, like, one technique at the beginning of their class, you'll notice a technical deficiency-

TJ Dillashaw 45:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:35 ... as opposed to, like, someone who comes from Hickson school-

TJ Dillashaw 45:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:38 ... or someone who comes from a school that's very technical or, you know, the Mendes brothers or something.

TJ Dillashaw 45:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:43 You know, though- it's just- it's so important to look at this, look at the sport, uh, whether it's MMA or i- kickboxing, or jujitsu, whatever it is, but to look at it like a, like a puzzle.

TJ Dillashaw 45:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:55 Like, you're trying to figure out what's the best way to solve this.

TJ Dillashaw 45:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:58 And, you know, what Duane has done for you, it's been pretty remarkable as far as, like, giving you footwork skills and tools to move around and angles. And I've- you know, I've watched you guys dra- drill and train together. I mean, it's really amazing stuff.

TJ Dillashaw 46:14 Yeah. Stuff that we think is simple and then we go and teach it at the gym, and w- and they're just like, "Wait, what? Can you guys do that, like, 10 more times?"

Joe Rogan 46:19 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 46:19 "We need to see that again." It's just like, "Oh, uh-"

Joe Rogan 46:21 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 46:22 "... all right." Something we've just been doing, like, the footwork I've created with Duane. Like, he wasn't a footwork guy. When he fought, he was straightforward-

Joe Rogan 46:28 I know. Isn't that crazy?

TJ Dillashaw 46:28 ... uh, punches and tornadoes. And then, like, he's the one that's created all these angles with me. And now we've created a whole new style.

Joe Rogan 46:33 It's so funny that he saw that, kinda, while he was fighting and then after he was fighting, he's implementing it on new fighters and didn't do it himself.

TJ Dillashaw 46:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:42 And he laughs about it.

TJ Dillashaw 46:43 Yeah. He, he wishes he probably would've had someone like himself coach him, obviously, you know?

Joe Rogan 46:47 Fucking for sure.

TJ Dillashaw 46:48 Um-

Joe Rogan 46:48 Yeah. Everybody does.

TJ Dillashaw 46:50 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Like, he's a fucking wizard, man.

TJ Dillashaw 46:51 He is. Well, 'cause he doesn't stop thinking about it either too.

Joe Rogan 46:54 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 46:54 He's like a Sam Calvitha for str- like, I'm s- I'm telling you, like, I have a- all the best coaches in the world around me. Like, he's like Sam Calvitha of striking in MMA. Um, and I'm trying to convince him to come to Southern California and start a professional fight team so that we can help recreate what we do for everyone 'cause we-

Joe Rogan 47:09 Trying to get him to move out here?

TJ Dillashaw 47:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:11 But he loves Colorado, man.

TJ Dillashaw 47:12 He does. He does. But he also loves being the best coach in the world. And, you know... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:17 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 47:17 So I'm hoping that I can convince enough that he, he'll do that, you know?

Joe Rogan 47:20 How close do you think you are to convincing him?

TJ Dillashaw 47:22 I think I'm close.

Joe Rogan 47:23 Duane-

TJ Dillashaw 47:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:24 ... we're talking about you.

TJ Dillashaw 47:25 Duane, I know you're listening, brother.

Joe Rogan 47:27 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 47:27 You know you wanna come to California.

Joe Rogan 47:28 I've never seen anybody with his detailed, um, uh, an instruction manual, like the way he breaks down his system-

TJ Dillashaw 47:34 No matter what it is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:35 ... like, for striking. I mean, it's really remarkable.

TJ Dillashaw 47:37 Yeah. Even when he comes into here to talk to you, he'll have a system. Writin' it down, what he wants to talk about, what he wants to do. Like, the guy doesn't stop thinking. He is a- he's on top of his stuff. He's OCD-

Joe Rogan 47:47 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 47:47 ... in a good way.

Joe Rogan 47:48 Yeah, in the best way.

TJ Dillashaw 47:48 In the-

Joe Rogan 47:49 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 47:49 ... best way, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 47:49 Well, it's like you were saying about being competitive.

TJ Dillashaw 47:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:52 I mean, I think it's, uh, uh, you- the idea that you're gonna be this balanced, chilled out person and still be a fucking world smasher-

TJ Dillashaw 47:58 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Good luck with that.

TJ Dillashaw 48:00 I'm the farthest thing from relaxed and chill.

Joe Rogan 48:02 Yes. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 48:02 You know? Uh, I- I try to work on it.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Well, you are right now, but-

TJ Dillashaw 48:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:05 ... but when you're training and when you-

TJ Dillashaw 48:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:06 ... look, you- there's a mindset that's required to beat the best guys, and it's not the same mindset that's required to get good.

TJ Dillashaw 48:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:13 To get g- you could get good and be a chilled out, relaxed person. Like-

TJ Dillashaw 48:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:16 ... say you wanna be a black belt in jujitsu. That's totally possible.

TJ Dillashaw 48:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:20 You could be really good and people can go, "Hey, look at Mike, man. Mike is, God, great triangle. Watch him roll. Wow, he's really good." But if Mike wants to be the motherfucker of motherfuckers, you better be crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 48:29 Yep.

Joe Rogan 48:29 You better be goddamn crazy. You better be like Mike Tyson when he was young.

TJ Dillashaw 48:33 Yeah. Be those Michael Jordans-

Joe Rogan 48:34 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 48:34 ... people are talking about that are always thinking about it, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:36 Roy Jones Jr.

TJ Dillashaw 48:37 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:37 All those guys. You gotta be a fucking crazy person.

TJ Dillashaw 48:40 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 48:41 Remember when s- Roy Jones Jr. played a professional basketball game-

TJ Dillashaw 48:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:44 ... the day of his fight? Played a goddamn-

TJ Dillashaw 48:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:46 ... basketball game the day of his fight.

TJ Dillashaw 48:47 That's a competitive dude, and he's just an athlete, man, too.

Joe Rogan 48:49 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 48:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Yeah. I mean, I just don't think there's any other way. You know, I mean, I think if you're gonna win a race, you're gonna red line the engine.

TJ Dillashaw 48:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:58 It's ... I just don't see how you're gonna beat the best guy. Everybody is trying their best.

TJ Dillashaw 49:03 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:03 This is the thing-

TJ Dillashaw 49:04 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:04 ... there's so much going on there.

TJ Dillashaw 49:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:06 I mean, you could have, like, a really good coach, so you have an advantage technically. You could have a, a really good group of guys you train with, so you have an a- an advantage in the environment that you're training in, and there's a lot of inspiration. But if you're not a fucking psychopath-

TJ Dillashaw 49:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:21 ... good luck.

TJ Dillashaw 49:22 Yep.

Joe Rogan 49:23 Good luck.

TJ Dillashaw 49:23 I agree with you 100%, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:25 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 49:26 I mean, th- I agree with you 'cause that's how I am though too, you know, so-

Joe Rogan 49:28 I know. That's why I'm saying it.

TJ Dillashaw 49:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:29 I'm just letting ... I mean, people who, like, wonder why you're so fucking crazy, like-

TJ Dillashaw 49:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:34 ... well, that's why he's so good.

TJ Dillashaw 49:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:35 There's no, there's no other way around this game.

TJ Dillashaw 49:37 I appreciate it. I mean-

Joe Rogan 49:39 Listen, man, I appreciate it too. I mean, for me, as a, a fan and as a professional commentator, you know, this is ... it's, it's important to me. If there's not people like you out there that are raising the bar, you know, people like you and Henry Cejudo and just-

TJ Dillashaw 49:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:53 You can go through the list of champions, the great fighters that are around today.

TJ Dillashaw 49:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:57 This is the best time in the history of the world to see martial arts. There's never been better martial arts, never.

TJ Dillashaw 50:05 It ... Well, the information's so easily accessible as well too.

Joe Rogan 50:08 Yes. Yes.

TJ Dillashaw 50:08 You know, like when I was wrestling as a kid, yeah, you got ... Like, we were talking about drilling. I remember being a kid and, like, drilling the same move thousands of times just like, "Why are we doing this again?"

Joe Rogan 50:15 You're so bored, right?

TJ Dillashaw 50:16 "I already learned this," you know.

Joe Rogan 50:17 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 50:17 But now I understand it being a profession how important it is, and now how easy, like, information ... Like, for instance, I created my Fit2Fight program, like, my online academy thing, and I'm showing techniques that I've learned over my whole entire life and it created me a year to create it, but I'm giving you infor- ... Like, think of when I was starting up, I wish I could've learned from other world champions just by going online. Or when I was a wrestler, if I wanted to learn Sam Calavita's, uh, nutrition plan, I can just go online and check it out.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 50:42 You know?

Joe Rogan 50:42 No, Sam has a, he has a whole online program, correct?

TJ Dillashaw 50:44 Yeah. He has an app he started called TrainChamp, and it's on his, uh, website, uh, traininglab.com. Um-

Joe Rogan 50:50 Is it, uh, Android and iPhone?

TJ Dillashaw 50:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:52 Is it for both?

TJ Dillashaw 50:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's ... Uh, it, it'll go through, like, his workout routines. It goes through the supplementation he puts me on. It goes through ... It has certain recipes that I've been on throughout my fight camp. The first one he created was arou- around me first, um, because we had put so much work in to go to 25, so he created a whole s- supplementation and diet plan and workout plan of what I did and put it out there accessible for people. I mean, he even has a, um ... You can even get a hair analysis on his app. You send in ... Like, they send you a little kit. You cut off on the back of your head where your brain stem's at, and you cut off your hair, and you send th-

Joe Rogan 51:24 Why where the brain stem's at?

TJ Dillashaw 51:25 That's where all your nutrition comes out at.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Whoa.

TJ Dillashaw 51:27 That's where all the nutrients from your nervous system will come through.

Joe Rogan 51:29 Who the fuck figured that out?

TJ Dillashaw 51:31 I don't ... Th- they, they burn the hair, and they get the, the toxins from it.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Whoa.

TJ Dillashaw 51:34 That's how I found out I have too much arsenic in my body I found.

Joe Rogan 51:37 What were you eating that gave you that arsenic?

TJ Dillashaw 51:39 He thinks maybe the rice or maybe my tattoos.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Tattoos?

TJ Dillashaw 51:43 Mm-hmm. He thinks ... Or he's really big into tobacco. Um, there's a, there's a lot of th- ... I mean, he s- since-

Joe Rogan 51:48 Arsenic is big in tobacco?

TJ Dillashaw 51:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 51:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:51 So, like, if you chew?

TJ Dillashaw 51:52 Yeah, chewing. I, I us-

Joe Rogan 51:53 You chewed?

TJ Dillashaw 51:53 I used to chew in college.

Joe Rogan 51:54 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 51:55 Um-

Joe Rogan 51:55 Yeah, but that wouldn't be still in your system, I don't think.

TJ Dillashaw 51:57 Well, your body won't get rid of heavy metals unless you make it get rid of heavy metals.

Joe Rogan 52:00 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 52:00 You have to do, like, a detox. Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:02 What do you do?

TJ Dillashaw 52:03 Uh, so I juice. I do a lot of juicing. Um, but I juice, uh, like, a quarter cup of cilantro every day within all my juices. I take, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:11 Cilantro is effective in getting heavy metals out of your system?

TJ Dillashaw 52:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah, big time.

Joe Rogan 52:15 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 52:15 And same with, uh, methionine.

Joe Rogan 52:17 It's good on burritos too.

TJ Dillashaw 52:17 (laughs) Yeah. Uh, methionine. Well, juicing, it's ... You get ... Actually it absorb a lot more of the nutrients when you cold press juice it compared to just eating it. I can eat a whole table of fruits and vegetables, and I'll absorb more of the nutrients from it if I juice it rather than just eating it raw.

Joe Rogan 52:31 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 52:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Hmm, interesting.

TJ Dillashaw 52:33 'Cause your body doesn't break it down the same. But then I also take methionine. It's a, uh, or methionine, I don't know how to pronounce it-

Joe Rogan 52:39 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 52:39 ... but it's, uh, amino that helps push out heavy metals. Uh, chlorella and spirulina will help push out heavy metals. Um, what else does he have me on? (exhales loudly)

Joe Rogan 52:50 I tested positive for arsenic back in the day because I was eating too much sardines.

TJ Dillashaw 52:54 Yeah, they're heavy in sardines, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:55 Yeah. But all I did is just back off the sardines, and it went away.

TJ Dillashaw 52:58 You tested it again?

Joe Rogan 52:59 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 52:59 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 53:00 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 53:00 And you never tried, uh, pushing it out, huh?

Joe Rogan 53:02 I didn't do shit.

TJ Dillashaw 53:03 Huh. Interesting.

Joe Rogan 53:04 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 53:05 Well, how did you test it though?

Joe Rogan 53:06 Blood work.

TJ Dillashaw 53:07 Blood work. So-

Joe Rogan 53:07 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 53:08 But the blood work is also one th- different though. When you do your blood, it's only right then and there what's in your body. So when you ... Like, when you do your hormone levels, you have to go in the morning and, and get your blood drawn before you eat or drink anything.

Joe Rogan 53:17 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 53:18 'Cause it's what's in your body right then and there. But when you do a hair analysis, it's what's in your body, like, the last, like, nine months or-

Joe Rogan 53:24 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 53:24 It's more f- it tells you more what's in your actual body over time.

Joe Rogan 53:28 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 53:28 You know, 'cause he might've just pushed the arsenic out of your blood rather than out of your, out of everything.

Joe Rogan 53:32 Hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 53:33 At least that's what he told me.

Joe Rogan 53:34 And he's a mathematician by trade? Is that what he is?

TJ Dillashaw 53:37 He's a calculus teacher at a private-

Joe Rogan 53:39 Oh.

TJ Dillashaw 53:39 ... uh, private school. Uh, the world's (laughs) best calculus teacher. He won some award. Um, his kids that take the placement test, his advanced placement test, they all got 100%. I think there's a-

Joe Rogan 53:50 (claps hands)

TJ Dillashaw 53:50 I think there's a kid that missed one question.

Joe Rogan 53:51 That's crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 53:52 Just one kid. Um, there's kids that travel all over the world to come to his school because of his accolades of being a calculus teacher.

Joe Rogan 53:58 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 53:58 Yeah. I mean, numbers never lie, you know. And I think that's what as always, uh, drawn to, like, his, his results and his studies is always numbers.

Joe Rogan 54:06 Oh, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 54:06 Everything comes back to the numbers of your body, your hormone levels, of my, um, heart rate variability. Everything's done by numbers, so ...

Joe Rogan 54:14 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 54:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:15 And so this is all a system that he devised himself. Did he ... I mean, does he have a background in combat sports at all?

TJ Dillashaw 54:23 (clears throat) He wrestled. So he wrestled at Cal State Fullerton. He was a big time wrestler, and then he was the World's Strongest Man. Uh, they did like that ... At Disneyland, they used to do the World's Strongest Man.

Joe Rogan 54:31 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 54:32 And he won for, like, the Nations', uh, Strongest Man competitions. He was huge. He used to be giant.

Joe Rogan 54:37 How much did he weigh?

TJ Dillashaw 54:38 Like, 260, 280.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Jesus Christ.

TJ Dillashaw 54:40 Like, right ... And now he's probably like 160, 170 pounds.

Joe Rogan 54:43 That's crazy.

TJ Dillashaw 54:44 Yeah. He was giant. Like, you could stack a cup on his chest, his chest was so big, you know. Um, but n-

Joe Rogan 54:49 I would never guess that looking at him. He looks like a marathon runner.

TJ Dillashaw 54:52 He's ... He is now. He does Ironmans.

Joe Rogan 54:54 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 54:55 So he switched up h- e- we ... Once he ... Like, he fi- ... So I think he had-... some health issues from getting so big and being so strong. He decided to switch things up and he just got into his body, because he started doing Ironmans and he wanted to get better at being an Ironman. So really got into how to train himself. And, uh, now he's done 14 Ironmans. He's qualified for Kona now. He's gonna do Kona in October.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 55:17 Um-

Joe Rogan 55:17 How old is he?

TJ Dillashaw 55:19 Uh, I wanna say 53 or 54.

Joe Rogan 55:22 Wow. S-

TJ Dillashaw 55:22 I think he just turned 54.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Still getting after it.

TJ Dillashaw 55:25 Yeah, man. Like, he'll... Every day. I went and worked out with him yesterday. He did... And then, uh, when I got there, he'll get in the garage and he'll do, like, a two-hour bike ride and then get on the treadmill and he's always doing power intervals and...

Joe Rogan 55:36 Will he come in and do a podcast?

TJ Dillashaw 55:38 I can kinda talk him into. He...

Joe Rogan 55:39 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 55:39 He's, uh, he's very... He tries to hide everything he does. He doesn't want his intellectual value getting out there.

Joe Rogan 55:44 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 55:44 He puts a lot of work into it. And I think he'd be really good on your podcast, because, like, some of the guys you have come in here, like, information goes way over your head.

Joe Rogan 55:51 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 55:51 But it's nice to be able to listen to it again and listen to it again.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Right, right, yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 55:54 Um, I'd like to convince him to come on. I, I think it'd be really interesting. I don't know if he would. He's a real sheltered kind of guy.

Joe Rogan 55:59 What do you think would be easier to do? Talk Dwayne into moving to California or talk Calvita to come out here?

TJ Dillashaw 56:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:05 Man.

TJ Dillashaw 56:05 I think maybe talking Dwayne into coming to California.

Joe Rogan 56:07 Really?

TJ Dillashaw 56:08 I don't know. Um-

Joe Rogan 56:10 Just gotta get him used to that beach life.

TJ Dillashaw 56:11 Yeah. I mean, he... So he's been coming down, like I said... Uh, my fight camp was 10 weeks long for m- for with him. I was longer, but with him, it was 10 weeks. And he was flying out three days a week. So every Monday he would land, he would leave Wednesday night.

Joe Rogan 56:25 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 56:25 And we would train Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and then... Hard, right? And I'd make sure to take, like, Thursday off and then do my other stuff while he's gone. But every week, he was traveling back and forth.

Joe Rogan 56:33 That's fucking dedication right there.

TJ Dillashaw 56:35 Dude, I have... We're family now, you know. Like-

Joe Rogan 56:37 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 56:38 He s- lived in my house. Like, he's on the meal plans with the Calvitas. Like, he's full bore into it. Like, he gives me his all. I'm, I'm a very fortunate person to have met Dwayne and our-

Joe Rogan 56:47 It's an amazing relationship.

TJ Dillashaw 56:48 Our relationship, yeah, how close it is.

Joe Rogan 56:50 Yeah. It really is.

TJ Dillashaw 56:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:50 And, I mean, that's the ideal when you can get a mentor and a, and a, a student that have that kind of a bond together and you can learn so much.

TJ Dillashaw 56:59 Yeah. And he won't let... Like, we have such a good bond now too that he won't, like, let bullshit slide. He won't be pumping me up for no reason.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 57:06 He won't, like, let me... I mean, I'm not a lazy guy, but if I was, he wouldn't let me, like, mispractice or-

Joe Rogan 57:10 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 57:11 You know. I mean, he almost has to pull me back more than anything. But, uh, he gives me this true assessment of what needs to be done.

Joe Rogan 57:17 Hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 57:18 Um, I obviously lost to Souto. We got home and he instantly texted me. He's like, "Hey, I'm coming out tomorrow. I'm gonna work out with, uh, Juan, but I'd love to get some work in with you. We just... Some things we should go over." I was like, "All right." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:29 Wow.

TJ Dillashaw 57:29 So, like, I was working out w- with him three days after the fight.

Joe Rogan 57:32 What did he say about that exchange?

TJ Dillashaw 57:35 Um, he says, like, he... Maybe he needs to, uh, change some things on the mitts and maybe, like... So for instance, the whole exchange, uh, I think I closed the distance too hard. Henry Cejudo switched up who he was as a fighter. Uh, I think he came out differently, which was great by him. He's done great things. He, um... I expected him to maybe run a little bit more and he came out aggressive. Um, and so getting used to the distance control. You know, not always having a set plan and, and going for those combos what I think is gonna happen, to be able to adjust on the fly. And maybe me and him, sometimes, we are too set on certain things rather than, um, reaction time stuff. You know, and I need to react to distance change, I need to react to things like that. It's hard to really change anything on that fight, because I didn't get a chance to see it either.

Joe Rogan 58:16 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 58:17 You know? It was so, so quick.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Now, d- have you talked to Dana or anyone since? I know you said that you guys would talk in the future, but it's been about, what? How many days? It's been about a week or so?

TJ Dillashaw 58:27 It's been two we- uh, about a week and a half.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Yeah.

TJ Dillashaw 58:30 It's been a week and a half now. Yeah, um, I haven't heard anything since the, the day after the fight. I was texting with him the day after the fight and he said they had to sit down and figure out what the plan is, kind of thing, you know. Um, but obviously, everyone knows that they, we want to run it back and, and it sounds like they do as well too, so...

Joe Rogan 58:46 Well, as far as something that people want to watch, whether it's at 35 or 25-

TJ Dillashaw 58:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:50 I think people absolutely would like to see that. I mean, at 35, the big selling point would be Henry gets a chance-

TJ Dillashaw 58:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:56 ... to become champ-champ.

TJ Dillashaw 58:56 Of course. Dude, I'll fight him at 25 and put my 35-pound belt on the line.

Joe Rogan 59:00 I think it works that way. (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 59:01 I really... I know it doesn't, but I-

Joe Rogan 59:02 (laughs)

TJ Dillashaw 59:02 ... I'm saying, like, if you beat me, like, I'll just g- like, I seriously, like, I wouldn't-

Joe Rogan 59:06 You give it to him.

TJ Dillashaw 59:06 I seriously don't even care. Like, yeah, the belts are awesome, all that stuff, and the rec- recognition, all that stuff, but to me, I want that, I want that win back. I w- I want that opportunity back to even just show how much work and how smart I was and how I didn't get, I didn't get hit and, and I wasn't fragile from being at 25s.

Joe Rogan 59:24 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 59:24 I really wasn't. Like, it wasn't like, um... I didn't get beat because I was a 25-pounder. I felt... I have no excuses. I got beat because I got beat, right? I have no excuses that I was too fragile of being at 125s.

Joe Rogan 59:34 Mm-hmm.

TJ Dillashaw 59:34 I felt better than I've ever felt my entire life. I just want the chance to prove that, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 59:39 Right.

TJ Dillashaw 59:39 So that's why I say that I would give him my belt at 135 if he beats me at 125s again, but-

Joe Rogan 59:43 Well-

TJ Dillashaw 59:44 I'll obviously take the fight wherever.

Joe Rogan 59:45 I mean, I think Ali needed Frazier, right?

TJ Dillashaw 59:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:48 Sugar Ray needed Tommy Hearns.

TJ Dillashaw 59:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:49 I mean, this is just... This is the nature of the sport.

TJ Dillashaw 59:52 Yep.

Joe Rogan 59:52 And a guy like him, I mean, I think you, you and Cody needed each other.

TJ Dillashaw 59:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:56 I think there's something about that kind of intense rivalry-

TJ Dillashaw 59:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 ... that is so important for,