JRE MMA Show #57 with TJ Dillashaw

1. 0:00 – 2:54

   Cejudo fight breakdown: the behind-the-ear shot and the controversial stoppage

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      5, 4, 3, 2, 1. TJ.

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw0:05

      Yo.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      How are you, brother?

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw0:06

      I'm doing good, man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      What is it like now? What is this, uh- what did- what- first of all, what was it like that night? For people who don't know-

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw0:14

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      ... let me just g- give you the rundown just so you don't have to say it.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw0:17

      Cool.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      You were involved in, uh, one of the most high-profile flyweight fights ever.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw0:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       You're the bantamweight champion, you dropped down to flyweight, you went through this extensive training routine to get your body down to a manageable weight where you can cut the last 10 pounds or so-

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw0:33

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       ... and make 125. The fight starts, Cejudo lands a good shot early, there's a lot of- a lot of action, and the referee stops the fight.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw0:42

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       And I was- I was s- shook by it. Everybody that I was watching the fight with was like, "What the fuck?"

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw0:50

       Dude, it-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       And it was almost universal. Like, no one thought it was a good stoppage.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw0:54

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       It's one of those stoppages where no one goes, "Yeah, it was a good stoppage, good stoppage."

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw0:59

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       No one.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw0:59

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Everybody was like, "What the fuck?" You jumped off and you're like, "Dude, come on. Come on, man."

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw1:04

       It's been rough, man. It's a rough one to- r- rough one to swallow on- on multiple reasons, you know. Um, like you say, he th- he landed a good shot. Um, the- the- everything's being overshadowed by this shot that landed behind my ear, you know. Um, I was over- uh, off balance, I threw a right hand that came in a little too aggressive. That's the way I fight, right? He pushed me over, I was off balance. He threw a kick, I blocked it, and he went to throw a right hand and I tried to dip out of the way, and it was one of those shots that hits you behind the head, like right behind the ear. Not illegal, right? We're on our feet. It's completely legal, but, uh, it was an unfortunate situation. One of those punches just kind of takes your feet out from underneath you. You're 100% there, but your equilibrium's off, you know, and he jumps on me. Um, I remember hearing the ref say, "Dillashaw, show me something," I told him, "I'm good." And I remember talking to him before the fight in the back, and he said, like, "If I'm telling you that, make sure you're talking to me. Give me- show me something," you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       But how were you talking when-

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw1:53

       I said it, I said, "I'm good."

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       I mean, but- but, uh, in his, you know, from- from his percep- perspective-

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw1:58

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       ... how does he expect you to talk while you're blocking punches?

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw2:01

       Yeah. Well, he even s- he even said too in the back before the fight too, like, you know, "Give me a thumbs up or something if you're in a choke," this or that, you know. So, uh, to be honest, I think he was v- I didn't- I didn't know who he was. I think he's really inexperienced. Watching him ref as well too, jumping around as soon as the- the commotion kinda had happened, he was looking for a reason to stop it almost. Um, but, you know, I can't-
2. 2:54 – 4:15

   The 125 cut: extreme leanness, “tweaker face,” and why TJ insists he felt great

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:54

      Well, it's such a different fight, because it was such an arduous task for you to get down to flyweight. I mean, people are looking... You look great right now. Your face is full, you look healthy.

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw3:04

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:04

      But goddamn, dude, I saw you the week of the fight on television-

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw3:07

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:08

      ... and I was like, "Look at his face, this guy."

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw3:09

      I looked like the tweaker.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      Yeah, you did.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw3:11

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:12

      You- you looked like you were, uh, you know... Cejudo said it best, you look like an ultra-marathon runner, like you're some guy who runs long distances, like...

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw3:18

       If- if I would've decided to cl- um, lose all the weight at the end, I wouldn't have looked like that, right?

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:23

       Right.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw3:23

       But I got my body down to 5 to 6% body fat, you know, so when I start losing anything towards the end, it's gonna come- you're gonna see it out of my face.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Right.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw3:31

       You know? And I'm one of those guys that loses and gains weight out of my face, you know. After my fights we call myself Fat Tyler.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       (laughs)

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw3:37

       Because that's my- my real name's Tyler and I go by TJ, and so, uh, Justin Buckles gave me that name back at Alpha Male, like...

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:42

       Fat Tyler. (laughs)

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw3:43

       I'd always get puffy face after my fights, so my alter ego's Fat Tyler.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       (laughs)

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw3:47

       You know, going out and eating and being an asshole. But, um...

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Right, eating spaghetti and shit.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw3:51

       Yeah, exactly.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       Yeah.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw3:52

       Um, but, uh, so when I- when I decided to, like... If I- I did it over 12 weeks, so my body weight was down, I mean, my- bo- my- my body fat percentage is down to 5%.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       That's crazy.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw4:02

       And so when you lose any more water weight or anything, you're gonna see it come out of your face, and it- because I was doing it for so long.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       Now, what was it like being that low, uh, on y- as far as your body fat goes? What was your performance like, physically? How'd you feel?

3. 4:15 – 6:35

   Rehydration shocker: weighing 149 after making 125 and feeling like a “glycogen battery”

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw4:15

      I actually... So, I felt the best I've ever felt before I walked out before the fight.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:19

      Really?

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw4:20

      Dude, th- uh, and I- that's another reason why I'm just so bitter about this thing, is because I didn't get a chance to show the work that I put in. I didn't get a chance to show all the science behind SAMcal/VEEDA and what he did to my body. I was stronger for this fight than I was my last Cody fight. I walked out two pounds heavier for this fight than I did my last Cody fight.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:38

      What did you walk out to?

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw4:39

      Uh, before I started warming up I weighed 149.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:42

      What?

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw4:43

      Yes. And I felt great. I didn't feel bloated, didn't feel nothing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:45

      Wait a minute, wait a minute. You went from 125 to 149?

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw4:48

      Yeah. Mm-hmm. I was a glycogen battery. I was ready to fucking go. I couldn't get tired before the fight when I was warming up in the back. I seriously, like, I've never felt better than this before a fight. Like, my- my mood, my energy levels, like, me hitting mitts with Duane in the back warming up, I was feeling smooth, I was feeling good. I remember even walking out in the cage and everything felt too good, almost too... I remember looking over at Duane, smiling at him, I felt awesome. Um, and that's even more of an unfortunate situation that I didn't get to really show that, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Well, I mean, hats off to Henry, 'cause he's a beast.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw5:19

       Yeah, of course.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       I mean, he- he did catch you and he is one of the best.

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw5:22

       Yeah, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       And he's, uh... I mean, there's a r- the- that kind of caliber of athlete is what made this fight so special.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw5:29

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       You being the bantamweight champion going down to flyweight.

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw5:31

       Yup.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       And I think the way you did it is probably the only way to really do it.

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw5:36

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       I don't-

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw5:37

       Safely.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       Yeah. I mean-

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw5:38

       For sure.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:39

       ... I- I- I- yeah, I mean, I guess you were safe, because you were only- you were like, what, 135-ish the day before?

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw5:45

       I made weight the night before the fight (laughs) .

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       What?

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw5:48

       Or- or, no, the night before, uh, weigh-ins. So I went to sleep, um, 1.3 pounds over, and I floated that. I actually took a shit the morning of weigh-ins, which is insane. That never happens. Like, my body was still working.Um, I, I wanted to make the weight the night before, 'cause obviously I hadn't made 125. I didn't wanna have to wake up in the morning and-

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:05

       Yeah.

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw6:05

       ... see what my body was gonna do and if it was gonna give me that extra water. Um, but I made, I made weight super easy, man. Like, don't get me wrong, the 12 weeks was a motherfucker. It was hard, it was a lot of work. But the, the actual weight cut was easy. I had no hiccups, nothing. Like, Sam would tell me, like, what to go to bed at, he knew what I was gonna wake up at. He tells me the water loading I'm doing, um, the amount of electrolytes I'm taking in, the, the, the amount of food I'm eating. And so he knows exactly what my body's gonna wake up and do. He's been tracking it for not two years now.

4. 6:35 – 14:27

   Sam Calavita’s system: full-stack performance coaching, data tracking, and mapped-out training

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:35

      That guy sounds brilliant. I really need to talk to him.

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw6:38

      Dude.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:38

      I've, I've watched videos of him-

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw6:39

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:39

      ... talking about it and seen the work, and just what a, what a unique individual he is.

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw6:45

      I mean, that's why I decided to move back down to Southern California.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:47

      For him, really?

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw6:47

      For him. Yeah, I mean-

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      Wow.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw6:48

       ... and then everything else kinda came along with it. My life is wonderful now, the people I got around me. Uh, I'm lucky that I have Duane Ludwig that's willing to trav out- travel out and train with me out there. Um, but I moved down to Southern California 'cause of Sam Calavita. And I came down and did two weeks with him, and started noticing like, "Man, this guy knows his shit," you know? Like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       Yeah.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw7:05

       I didn't realize-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:06

       Uniquely, uniquely know... I mean, there's a lot of people out there who know their shit.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw7:09

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:10

       But he seems like he's on some new level.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw7:12

       I mean, he sent me graphs that I have on my phone of, like, the tr- like, he w- he, like, to every week we knew exactly where my body weight wanted to be at. He was telling me weights that I'd be at before I would even be there and my body would just do it, you know? Um-

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       So you didn't need a separate person. So he's your-

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw7:27

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:27

       This is what's un- unusual about this.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw7:29

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       Normally, if you would hire somebody, you, you would hire, like, a George Lockhart or someone like that.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw7:35

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:35

       Mike Dolce. And then you would, you would hire them almost specifically just for the weight cut and some nutrition advice. He's training you physically as well.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw7:44

       He's telling me, uh, my low base. Like, so my long distance running when I... Or my fasted low base. He, yeah, he does everything. My strength and conditioning, my nutrition, he, they make my meals, they do all my meal prep. He's telling me, like, w- how much, uh, low base I need to do per week, like either morning or night. He's telling me when I should train. Um, it's a... Everything is completely mapped out. I don't... There's no guesswork in it, there's nothing. Like, he's telling me everything. Like, he's listening to my heart rate when I'm sleeping, my heart rate variabilities. He's telling me what supplements to take, um, all of it. You know? Like, everything... I, I seriously... And, and, and that's, that's another reason why it, it's just so tough that this fight didn't get to, like, really let me prove anything not only for myself and who I am, but the work that this guy put in. You know? Like, I'm gonna sit here and brag about him and tell him about how badass he is, but then people wanna tell me, like, "Oh, you were malnourished, you don't have a chin. 125 was a bad cut for you." They're giving him crap all over the place. And, uh, I almost feel just as bad for him as I do for myself, for how much work he put into it and how, actually how great I felt before the fight and I didn't get a chance to show it. Like I said, I walked out at 149, glycogen battery ready to go. Um, I really never felt better.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:52

       God.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw8:52

       I know, man.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:53

       (laughs)

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw8:54

       It, it was insane. Like, I, I, I, I really couldn't believe, like, how my body absorbed everything, you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:00

       So what are you walking around like now?

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw9:03

       Uh, I'm in the low 50s (laughs) . I'm in low 50s right now, but that's 'cause I'm trying to be at low 50s.
5. 14:27 – 17:56

   Diet mechanics: carb choices, intermittent fasting, ketosis toggling, and “low base” heart-rate work

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:27

      Like, what was your diet like? Like, what did you eat?

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw14:31

      In and out of ke- I couldn't... You can't be in ketosis, obviously, 'cause I trained too hard, right? But, um, no grains. You know, if I'm eating carbs, it's simple carbs, things like that. Uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:40

      Like fruits?

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw14:41

      Yeah, fruits, vegetables, sweet potatoes, things like that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:43

      And are you weighing everything out?

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw14:45

      They do all that. (sighs) I, I, I'm not doing it personally myself. Sam and his family do it. Um, the training lab, they make every meal, every snack I... So I'm eating three meals a day. I'm actually eating pretty good calories too. I'm eating three meals a day, two snacks a day. Um, but it's also about when I stop eating, my intermittent fasting, me doing my low base while I'm, while I'm fasting to get my body to be, um, burning 100% fats. And-

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:07

      When you say, "Doing your low base," what do you mean by that?

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw15:09

      Um, my, like, long distance, so-

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      Low cardio, slow movements-

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw15:13

       Yes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       ... long-

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw15:14

       So it's not hard, right?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:15

       ... long sessions.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw15:15

       It's something-

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:15

       Right.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw15:15

       ... where I keep my heart rate at a certain variable. Depending on what my VO₂ max is, what my RMR is, there's this crossover where your body starts burning carbs or it starts burning fats. If you're sprinting, you're going hard and hard and hard, your body's gonna start burning carbs, 'cause it needs to burn carbs to go that hard. But when you're at a certain level, like, so m- for instance, when I started camp, my crossover was at 145, so I need to keep my heart rate under 145 for maybe 45 minutes. Or maybe now I'm getting closer to where I need to b- lose more weight and need to go an hour.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       So 145 is, uh, is that 80%? No, it's s- 70% of your heart rate? Must be.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw15:50

       Uh, everyone's is different.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Max, right.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw15:51

       It depends what your VO₂ is.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       Right.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw15:53

       Um, I don't remember what mine was exactly, what, percentage wise?

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       But at 145 is the sweet spot where you're burning fat?

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw15:58

       At the beginning of camp.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       Mm-hmm.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw15:59

       But towards the end of the camp, I can go to, like, 155-

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       Oh.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw16:02

       ... because I got in better shape. Um, my, my, I, I don't know, I was just in better shape. I was a, a better f- machine to where I could go harder and still be in a fat-burning substrate.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Hmm.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw16:13

       Um, and then he would dictate if I needed to do 40 minutes in a minute, maybe an hour at night, and depending on how he wanted my body to react. And then he's also spiking and taking away my insulin levels to get my... 'Cause I don't wanna be in ketosis always, right? 'Cause my body will crash. But I need to be in it to get my body weight down without losing weight unhealthy. If I would've waited till the last two weeks to crash my weight, I would've been dehydrated. But all the way up until weigh-ins, my body was over 60 c- 60% hydrated. Most of camp out, I was 66% hydrated. Um, and that's because you don't only get hydrated from the water you drink, you're hydrated from the, the supplements you're gonna take and the food you're taking in i- inside your cells.
6. 17:56 – 21:08

   Fixing “redlining”: low testosterone, recovery management, and supplement timing

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw17:56

      Um, and I didn't realize that I had low tests n- before I met Sam, until he tested my levels and did my hair analysis and all that stuff. I didn't realize what was going on with my body. I just trained hard, and I thought I was training smart.

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:07

      Right.

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw18:07

      Um, but then I met Sam and he took it to a whole nother level.

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:10

      Well, the training hard, sometimes the problem is your body just never really gets a chance to catch up.

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw18:15

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:15

      It never really gets a chance to recover. And there's a lot of really good fighters that are doing that to themselves.

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw18:21

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:21

      'Cause they're just... You know, especially wrestlers.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw18:23

      Wrestlers.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:23

       They have that mentality, just, they just fucking go.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw18:26

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       They don't care if they're miserable, they're mentally tough, they keep pushing, and your body just is always behind the eight ball. You never really get a chance to recover.

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw18:33

       I was redlining my body.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:35

       Yeah.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw18:35

       You know? I was, I was...... not eating right and I was working out as hard as I possibly could-

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       Mm-hmm.

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw18:39

       ... pounding the caffeine, uh, and my body just was telling me no, you know-

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       Yeah.

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw18:44

       ... like my- my- my to- my testosterone was crashed and, like, to see where it's at now is amazing, you know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:48

       And what did he do to boost it back up?

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw18:50

       My diet, my supplementation, which all my supplements are- are food-based for the most part. I mean, there'll be supplements, but they're aminos and- and all whole food based stuff.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:58

       Magnesium, zinc.

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw18:59

       Oh, yeah, magnesium, zincs, uh, tryptophans, ornithines, glycines, tyrosines, krill oils-

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:04

       Oh, super excess chain amino acids, right.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw19:05

       All different ways a- and different times of taking depending on what I'm doing. Um, there's certain kind of creatines I'm taking. My proteins are all, uh, organic. Um, he's, uh, this company, Orgain, it's... I- I take a lot of their stuff. You know, their- their- their everything's tested or organic. Um, so everything I'm doing i- is all whole- whole food-based supplements. And then the way I'm training as well too, like... So he's listening to my heart rate variability when I sleep and-

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       So what are you- what are you wearing to register that?

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw19:32

       Uh, I wear a heart rate monitor made by Suunto.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:34

       Okay, yeah.

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw19:35

       Um, but it's-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       Great company.
7. 21:08 – 30:44

   Broader fight talk: Aaron Pico’s KO loss, ESPN debut hype, and matchmaking for skill vs. spectacle

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:08

      Um, what did you think of the Pico fight?

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw21:11

      Oh, man, so unfortunate.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:13

      Crazy, right?

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw21:13

      'Cause he's just... He's such a killer that he wants to knock everyone out. Not only does he wanna be the best fighter in the world, but he wants to be the most entertaining fighter in the world, so he's looking to punish you. 'Cause he's got so many weapons that he doesn't use. Um, he's so good, man. Um, but he lives by the sword and he dies by the sword kinda thing, you know. He wants to be that- that knock-you-out entertaining fighter. He wants to be able to show a- a highlight reel of first round knockouts, you know. Um-

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:40

      Which is great-

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw21:41

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:41

      ... but you always have to understand that you are just like the guy right in front of you.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw21:46

      Yep.

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:46

      And that one shot, especially in MMA-

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw21:49

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:49

       ... one shot can turn it all around, and it did.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw21:51

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       It was one of the most shocking knockouts I think I've ever seen. Because it looked like... He looked fucking phenomenal. He came out there and we knew that he had been training with you for this fight.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw22:00

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:00

       He was fucking shredded.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw22:01

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:01

       He looked like a world-beater.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw22:02

       Yep.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:03

       Went out there, landed that clean uppercut, and then got just way carried away.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw22:06

       Yup. And it's- it's unfortunate 'cause you think I'm in shape and I do crazy things. This guy's putting me to shame. Like, a- in Sam's Garage, what he's able to do on the bike and just his workout regimen and, like, just how competitive he is. Man, he's a- he's a world-beater. He could be by far world champion, you know. There's some things that... He's g- he's so young, so he... There's some things we need to get to figure out. Everyone takes losses and, uh, hoping one of these is gonna s- spark him to realize w- how good he is everywhere, you know, and, uh, yeah, it's just an unfortunate situation, MMA.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Yeah, I mean, guys have bounced back from knockouts and-

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw22:39

       Yep.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:40

       ... and become world champions, unquestionably.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw22:42

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:42

       It's just, he's gotta make sure he doesn't have too many of those.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw22:44

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:44

       You know, and- and make sure he fights smart.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw22:46

       Agreed.

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:46

       And uses the- use that goddamn wrestling.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw22:49

       Dude, it's insane wrestling too.
8. 30:44 – 42:10

   Injuries, altitude, and longevity: back/neck issues, decompression, and fighter career risk

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw30:44

      I mean, wrestling hurt me more than anything.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:47

      Really?

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw30:48

      Anything from that I still do today, wr- even if I get hurt today, it's from wrestling practice. It's, wrestling's the hardest thing on my body. Um, your neck, your back, your shoulders. It, it, I mean, it's, it's rough. You know, Sam Calvita's son right now, uh, AJ, he's been on the couch for the last four months, and it was from wrestling. He hurt his back. He, uh, bulging disc in his back or, um, herniated disc, um, from wrestling. And he's 16 years old now.

   4. JRJoe Rogan31:12

      Jesus Christ.

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw31:13

      You know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:14

      That's a rough one when you're that young and you hurt your back.

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw31:16

      Yeah, man, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:17

      Wow.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw31:17

      Yeah, so it's a, it's a-

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       What part of his back? His lower?

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw31:19

       Yeah, lower back, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       What's he got him doing for it?

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw31:22

       Uh...

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       I would always assume a guy like that knows exactly what to do to try to heal something like that up.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw31:25

       Yes, well, he's been doing... So we've been, uh, he's had to, we, they tried doing everything naturally, but he's had to go and get a couple epidurals now, um, to kind of d- shrink the swelling so that, um, uh, obviously it's not... So it's pushing on a nerve.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:37

       Mm-hmm.

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw31:37

       And so it's messing with the sciatic nerve and it's hard for him to walk. He was having to crawl around the house like a dog, like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Jesus Christ.

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw31:43

       ... laid on the couch forever. Now he's starting to walk, um, but Sam's got him out in the garage doing pull-ups 'cause that's the only thing he can do.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:49

       Mm-hmm.

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw31:49

       Um, because it's a decompression, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       Right.

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw31:51

       He's able to hold onto the bar at least and, and get some pull-ups in and start to strengthen his back so that it will hold his spine kind of where it needs to be. 'Cause I mean-

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:58

       Mm-hmm.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw31:58

       ... he's losing insane amounts of muscle mass. I mean, this kid was 16 years old, looking good, working out with his dad out in the garage and then gets hurt, now he looks like a, a different person. Um, I feel-

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       Yeah.

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw32:08

       I feel bad for him being a 16-year-old kid, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       Well, I, I definitely feel bad that he looks bad, but, um, I really feel bad that he's got that kind of an injury at 16.

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw32:16

       Yeah. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:16

       That's a, that's an injury you see with guys in their twenties and thirties, and you, you know-
9. 42:10 – 45:58

   CTE and safer training: the Jason Hairston story, sparring limits, and drilling philosophy

   1. JRJoe Rogan42:10

      It was- speaking of which, um, there's an article in The New York Times today that I was reading on, uh, a guy that we knew, Jason Hairston-

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw42:17

      Mm-Hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:17

      ... um, and it just talks about his CTE and how bad it was. And, um, you know, uh, Jason is a guy who founded this clothing company that we know called Kuiu.

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw42:28

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan42:28

      And, um-... he, he'd been on the podcast before. I knew him pretty well.

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw42:32

      It's just- yeah, it's crazy 'cause something you knew never would have guessed-

   7. JRJoe Rogan42:34

      Yeah.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw42:34

      ... how bad it was either.

   9. JRJoe Rogan42:36

      It's- yeah, because-

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw42:37

       Every time I-

   11. JRJoe Rogan42:37

       ... he-

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw42:37

       ... saw him, he was happy, he's awesome, like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan42:39

       For people who don't know the story-

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw42:39

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan42:39

       ... he committed suicide, um, about a year ago or so.

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw42:43

       Yeah, about that, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan42:44

       And, um, (sighs) no one i- no one outside of it saw it coming.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw42:48

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan42:48

       It was a, a ju- just a giant crazy blow. And, um, you know, I was, uh, texting back and forth with one of his friends and, uh, you know, essentially said, "He had a broken brain, man." It didn't make sense because you- when your brain's broken, it's like-

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw43:04

       (sniffs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan43:04

       ... having a broken phone. It's like having a broken anything. It's just broken.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw43:08

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan43:08

       It's not, it's not working right. It, uh, it's-

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw43:10

       (clears throat)

   25. JRJoe Rogan43:10

       ... irrational. It doesn't make sense.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw43:12

       I couldn't imagine the thoughts that had to have been going through his head to have that happen 'cause, like, I was texting him two weeks before it happened, like talking about going on a hunt with him and doing this and that. And he's, like, talking about how great the business is doing. Like, you'd think he's living the American dream. Like, that's a-

   27. JRJoe Rogan43:25

       Yeah.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw43:25

       ... awesome, you know? So it's tough, man. I couldn't even, I couldn't even put myself, like, to have that kinda torture, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan43:30

       Well, you know, he was friends with Donald Jr., Donald Trump, Jr. And, uh, you know, they hunted together. And h- he was talking to him just a p- p- p- few hours before.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw43:38

       Mm-hmm.
10. 45:58 – 50:17

    Duane Ludwig and “systems”: building striking footwork, coaching obsession, and a SoCal super-team idea

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       And, you know, what Duane has done for you, it's been pretty remarkable as far as, like, giving you footwork skills and tools to move around and angles. And I've- you know, I've watched you guys dra- drill and train together. I mean, it's really amazing stuff.

    2. TDTJ Dillashaw46:14

       Yeah. Stuff that we think is simple and then we go and teach it at the gym, and w- and they're just like, "Wait, what? Can you guys do that, like, 10 more times?"

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       Yeah.

    4. TDTJ Dillashaw46:19

       "We need to see that again." It's just like, "Oh, uh-"

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       Right.

    6. TDTJ Dillashaw46:22

       "... all right." Something we've just been doing, like, the footwork I've created with Duane. Like, he wasn't a footwork guy. When he fought, he was straightforward-

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       I know. Isn't that crazy?

    8. TDTJ Dillashaw46:28

       ... uh, punches and tornadoes. And then, like, he's the one that's created all these angles with me. And now we've created a whole new style.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       It's so funny that he saw that, kinda, while he was fighting and then after he was fighting, he's implementing it on new fighters and didn't do it himself.

    10. TDTJ Dillashaw46:41

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:42

        And he laughs about it.

    12. TDTJ Dillashaw46:43

        Yeah. He, he wishes he probably would've had someone like himself coach him, obviously, you know?

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:47

        Fucking for sure.

    14. TDTJ Dillashaw46:48

        Um-

    15. JRJoe Rogan46:48

        Yeah. Everybody does.

    16. TDTJ Dillashaw46:50

        Yeah, yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:50

        Like, he's a fucking wizard, man.

    18. TDTJ Dillashaw46:51

        He is. Well, 'cause he doesn't stop thinking about it either too.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:54

        Yeah.

    20. TDTJ Dillashaw46:54

        He's like a Sam Calvitha for str- like, I'm s- I'm telling you, like, I have a- all the best coaches in the world around me. Like, he's like Sam Calvitha of striking in MMA. Um, and I'm trying to convince him to come to Southern California and start a professional fight team so that we can help recreate what we do for everyone 'cause we-

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:09

        Trying to get him to move out here?

    22. TDTJ Dillashaw47:10

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:11

        But he loves Colorado, man.

    24. TDTJ Dillashaw47:12

        He does. He does. But he also loves being the best coach in the world. And, you know... (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan47:17

        (laughs)

    26. TDTJ Dillashaw47:17

        So I'm hoping that I can convince enough that he, he'll do that, you know?

    27. JRJoe Rogan47:20

        How close do you think you are to convincing him?

    28. TDTJ Dillashaw47:22

        I think I'm close.

    29. JRJoe Rogan47:23

        Duane-

    30. TDTJ Dillashaw47:24

        Yeah.
11. 50:17 – 1:23:01

    Garage-lab training and biohacking recovery: HRV wearables, red light, sauna, cryo, floats, altitude mask

    1. TDTJ Dillashaw50:17

       But now I understand it being a profession how important it is, and now how easy, like, information ... Like, for instance, I created my Fit2Fight program, like, my online academy thing, and I'm showing techniques that I've learned over my whole entire life and it created me a year to create it, but I'm giving you infor- ... Like, think of when I was starting up, I wish I could've learned from other world champions just by going online. Or when I was a wrestler, if I wanted to learn Sam Calavita's, uh, nutrition plan, I can just go online and check it out.

    2. JRJoe Rogan50:41

       Yeah.

    3. TDTJ Dillashaw50:42

       You know?

    4. JRJoe Rogan50:42

       No, Sam has a, he has a whole online program, correct?

    5. TDTJ Dillashaw50:44

       Yeah. He has an app he started called TrainChamp, and it's on his, uh, website, uh, traininglab.com. Um-

    6. JRJoe Rogan50:50

       Is it, uh, Android and iPhone?

    7. TDTJ Dillashaw50:52

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan50:52

       Is it for both?

    9. TDTJ Dillashaw50:53

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's ... Uh, it, it'll go through, like, his workout routines. It goes through the supplementation he puts me on. It goes through ... It has certain recipes that I've been on throughout my fight camp. The first one he created was arou- around me first, um, because we had put so much work in to go to 25, so he created a whole s- supplementation and diet plan and workout plan of what I did and put it out there accessible for people. I mean, he even has a, um ... You can even get a hair analysis on his app. You send in ... Like, they send you a little kit. You cut off on the back of your head where your brain stem's at, and you cut off your hair, and you send th-

    10. JRJoe Rogan51:24

        Why where the brain stem's at?

    11. TDTJ Dillashaw51:25

        That's where all your nutrition comes out at.

    12. JRJoe Rogan51:27

        Whoa.

    13. TDTJ Dillashaw51:27

        That's where all the nutrients from your nervous system will come through.

    14. JRJoe Rogan51:29

        Who the fuck figured that out?

    15. TDTJ Dillashaw51:31

        I don't ... Th- they, they burn the hair, and they get the, the toxins from it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan51:34

        Whoa.

    17. TDTJ Dillashaw51:34

        That's how I found out I have too much arsenic in my body I found.

    18. JRJoe Rogan51:37

        What were you eating that gave you that arsenic?

    19. TDTJ Dillashaw51:39

        He thinks maybe the rice or maybe my tattoos.

    20. JRJoe Rogan51:42

        Tattoos?

    21. TDTJ Dillashaw51:43

        Mm-hmm. He thinks ... Or he's really big into tobacco. Um, there's a, there's a lot of th- ... I mean, he s- since-

    22. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        Arsenic is big in tobacco?

    23. TDTJ Dillashaw51:50

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        Really?

    25. TDTJ Dillashaw51:51

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan51:51

        So, like, if you chew?

    27. TDTJ Dillashaw51:52

        Yeah, chewing. I, I us-

    28. JRJoe Rogan51:53

        You chewed?

    29. TDTJ Dillashaw51:53

        I used to chew in college.

    30. JRJoe Rogan51:54

        Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 1:53:12