JRE MMA Show #57 with TJ Dillashaw

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   5, 4, 3, 2,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      5, 4, 3, 2, 1. TJ.

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw0:05

      Yo.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      How are you, brother?

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw0:06

      I'm doing good, man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      What is it like now? What is this, uh- what did- what- first of all, what was it like that night? For people who don't know-

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw0:14

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      ... let me just g- give you the rundown just so you don't have to say it.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw0:17

      Cool.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      You were involved in, uh, one of the most high-profile flyweight fights ever.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw0:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       You're the bantamweight champion, you dropped down to flyweight, you went through this extensive training routine to get your body down to a manageable weight where you can cut the last 10 pounds or so-

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw0:33

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       ... and make 125. The fight starts, Cejudo lands a good shot early, there's a lot of- a lot of action, and the referee stops the fight.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw0:42

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       And I was- I was s- shook by it. Everybody that I was watching the fight with was like, "What the fuck?"

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw0:50

       Dude, it-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       And it was almost universal. Like, no one thought it was a good stoppage.

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw0:54

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       It's one of those stoppages where no one goes, "Yeah, it was a good stoppage, good stoppage."

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw0:59

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       No one.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw0:59

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Everybody was like, "What the fuck?" You jumped off and you're like, "Dude, come on. Come on, man."

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw1:04

       It's been rough, man. It's a rough one to- r- rough one to swallow on- on multiple reasons, you know. Um, like you say, he th- he landed a good shot. Um, the- the- everything's being overshadowed by this shot that landed behind my ear, you know. Um, I was over- uh, off balance, I threw a right hand that came in a little too aggressive. That's the way I fight, right? He pushed me over, I was off balance. He threw a kick, I blocked it, and he went to throw a right hand and I tried to dip out of the way, and it was one of those shots that hits you behind the head, like right behind the ear. Not illegal, right? We're on our feet. It's completely legal, but, uh, it was an unfortunate situation. One of those punches just kind of takes your feet out from underneath you. You're 100% there, but your equilibrium's off, you know, and he jumps on me. Um, I remember hearing the ref say, "Dillashaw, show me something," I told him, "I'm good." And I remember talking to him before the fight in the back, and he said, like, "If I'm telling you that, make sure you're talking to me. Give me- show me something," you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       But how were you talking when-

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw1:53

       I said it, I said, "I'm good."

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       I mean, but- but, uh, in his, you know, from- from his percep- perspective-

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw1:58

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       ... how does he expect you to talk while you're blocking punches?

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw2:01

       Yeah. Well, he even s- he even said too in the back before the fight too, like, you know, "Give me a thumbs up or something if you're in a choke," this or that, you know. So, uh, to be honest, I think he was v- I didn't- I didn't know who he was. I think he's really inexperienced. Watching him ref as well too, jumping around as soon as the- the commotion kinda had happened, he was looking for a reason to stop it almost. Um, but, you know, I can't-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   When you say, "Doing…

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw15:00

      my intermittent fasting, me doing my low base while I'm, while I'm fasting to get my body to be, um, burning 100% fats. And-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:07

      When you say, "Doing your low base," what do you mean by that?

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw15:09

      Um, my, like, long distance, so-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      Low cardio, slow movements-

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw15:13

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      ... long-

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw15:14

      So it's not hard, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      ... long sessions.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw15:15

      It's something-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:15

       Right.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw15:15

       ... where I keep my heart rate at a certain variable. Depending on what my VO₂ max is, what my RMR is, there's this crossover where your body starts burning carbs or it starts burning fats. If you're sprinting, you're going hard and hard and hard, your body's gonna start burning carbs, 'cause it needs to burn carbs to go that hard. But when you're at a certain level, like, so m- for instance, when I started camp, my crossover was at 145, so I need to keep my heart rate under 145 for maybe 45 minutes. Or maybe now I'm getting closer to where I need to b- lose more weight and need to go an hour.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       So 145 is, uh, is that 80%? No, it's s- 70% of your heart rate? Must be.

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw15:50

       Uh, everyone's is different.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Max, right.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw15:51

       It depends what your VO₂ is.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       Right.

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw15:53

       Um, I don't remember what mine was exactly, what, percentage wise?

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       But at 145 is the sweet spot where you're burning fat?

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw15:58

       At the beginning of camp.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       Mm-hmm.

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw15:59

       But towards the end of the camp, I can go to, like, 155-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       Oh.

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw16:02

       ... because I got in better shape. Um, my, my, I, I don't know, I was just in better shape. I was a, a better f- machine to where I could go harder and still be in a fat-burning substrate.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Hmm.

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw16:13

       Um, and then he would dictate if I needed to do 40 minutes in a minute, maybe an hour at night, and depending on how he wanted my body to react. And then he's also spiking and taking away my insulin levels to get my... 'Cause I don't wanna be in ketosis always, right? 'Cause my body will crash. But I need to be in it to get my body weight down without losing weight unhealthy. If I would've waited till the last two weeks to crash my weight, I would've been dehydrated. But all the way up until weigh-ins, my body was over 60 c- 60% hydrated. Most of camp out, I was 66% hydrated. Um, and that's because you don't only get hydrated from the water you drink, you're hydrated from the, the supplements you're gonna take and the food you're taking in i- inside your cells.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       So when you say you're getting into keyso- ketosis, are you doing it 100% through diet or are you taking exogenous ketones?

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw16:58

       Mm-mm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:58

       Are you doing anything else?

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw16:59

       Just diet and the way I work out.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       Diet, the way you work out.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   I mean, it changed…

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw30:00

      yes.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      I mean, it changed Cain's career in many ways, you know?

   3. TDTJ Dillashaw30:03

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      One, one loss like that to a guy like Fabricio Werdum-

   5. TDTJ Dillashaw30:06

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      ... you know, um, he's fighting real, real soon-

   7. TDTJ Dillashaw30:09

      I'm excited for that fight.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:10

      ... against Fr- Francis Ngannou. Hope he's healthy.

   9. TDTJ Dillashaw30:12

      I hope he's healthy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       Oh, shit.He has to be.

   11. TDTJ Dillashaw30:13

       I hope so.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:14

       Goddamn it.

   13. TDTJ Dillashaw30:15

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:15

       I mean, if he's not, he's in trouble.

   15. TDTJ Dillashaw30:17

       'Cause man, he could be the best heavyweight. I mean, I think-

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       Yeah.

   17. TDTJ Dillashaw30:19

       ... he was the best heavyweight, just unfortunate situations where he didn't get to-

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       Mm-hmm.

   19. TDTJ Dillashaw30:23

       ... to prove that. I mean, he's one of the...

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:24

       Well, I think his thing was that his body just couldn't deal with his mind.

   21. TDTJ Dillashaw30:29

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:30

       Like his mind is so strong-

   23. TDTJ Dillashaw30:31

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:32

       ... and his, his will and his work ethic is so powerful. And that goddamn camp of killers up in-

   25. TDTJ Dillashaw30:38

       It's true.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       ... San Jose.

   27. TDTJ Dillashaw30:40

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       AKA is just assassin central.

   29. TDTJ Dillashaw30:43

       And just the years of wrestling.

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:44

       Yeah. Mm-hmm, yep.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (slaps hands) …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      fun, so everybody wants to just slap hands-

   2. TDTJ Dillashaw45:02

      (slaps hands)

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:02

      ... punch knuckles-

   4. TDTJ Dillashaw45:03

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:03

      ... and start rolling-

   6. TDTJ Dillashaw45:04

      (laughs) Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      ... 'cause it's fun.

   8. TDTJ Dillashaw45:05

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      It's fun to- it's like a fun game you're doing.

   10. TDTJ Dillashaw45:07

       It's a good release.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:08

       Yeah. I- but the best way to get better at it is to constantly drill.

   12. TDTJ Dillashaw45:13

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       And then you develop these pathways that are just (snaps fingers) ingrained in your subconscious. And so when you're in that half guard position, you immediately go for that underhook. You immediately- you know the path.

   14. TDTJ Dillashaw45:23

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:23

       You know where to go instead of ad-libbing and thinking while you're in the middle of a roll. And when you see guys that come from camps where they don't drill, they only do, like, one technique at the beginning of their class, you'll notice a technical deficiency-

   16. TDTJ Dillashaw45:35

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:35

       ... as opposed to, like, someone who comes from Hickson school-

   18. TDTJ Dillashaw45:38

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       ... or someone who comes from a school that's very technical or, you know, the Mendes brothers or something.

   20. TDTJ Dillashaw45:43

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       You know, though- it's just- it's so important to look at this, look at the sport, uh, whether it's MMA or i- kickboxing, or jujitsu, whatever it is, but to look at it like a, like a puzzle.

   22. TDTJ Dillashaw45:55

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       Like, you're trying to figure out what's the best way to solve this.

   24. TDTJ Dillashaw45:58

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       And, you know, what Duane has done for you, it's been pretty remarkable as far as, like, giving you footwork skills and tools to move around and angles. And I've- you know, I've watched you guys dra- drill and train together. I mean, it's really amazing stuff.

   26. TDTJ Dillashaw46:14

       Yeah. Stuff that we think is simple and then we go and teach it at the gym, and w- and they're just like, "Wait, what? Can you guys do that, like, 10 more times?"

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       Yeah.

   28. TDTJ Dillashaw46:19

       "We need to see that again." It's just like, "Oh, uh-"

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       Right.

   30. TDTJ Dillashaw46:22

       "... all right." Something we've just been doing, like, the footwork I've created with Duane. Like, he wasn't a footwork guy. When he fought, he was straightforward-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:00:04

   ... that is so…

   1. TDTJ Dillashaw1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      ... that is so important for, for, for actualizing, for-

Episode duration: 1:53:12