JRE MMA Show #61 with Herb Dean

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   ... five, four, three.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... five, four, three. I was good that day, but then the next day, like, oh. Live. And we're live, Herb Dean. How are you, sir?

   2. HDHerb Dean0:09

      I'm good. How about yourself?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      So glad we're finally doing this.

   4. HDHerb Dean0:12

      Yeah. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      You and I have talked about doing a podcast for the last, like, three years.

   6. HDHerb Dean0:15

      Yeah, yeah. See, yeah, you know, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm glad to be on it. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs)

   8. HDHerb Dean0:19

      Hang out with you, talk to you for a little bit.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      D- I think, and I've said this before, you have the hardest job in the sport, other than the fighters. There's the fighters, obviously, they have the hardest job. You have the second-hardest job. Referee is the second-hardest job in the sport. It's a fucking hard job. Like, you have so much responsibility.

   10. HDHerb Dean0:36

       Yeah, I think you have a really hard job.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       I think-

   12. HDHerb Dean0:39

       I think the talk... How long do you talk for?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       T- it's just, uh, hours, six hours.

   14. HDHerb Dean0:43

       Six hours, and-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Yeah.

   16. HDHerb Dean0:44

       ... and sometimes there's not always something interesting to talk about. And, uh, or sometimes, yeah, so I think, uh, it's amazing to be able to talk about that, uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       It's not that e- easy. It's not that hard, rather. It's pretty easy. I mean, it's just a bunch of stuff's happening-

   18. HDHerb Dean0:57

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       ... and you're calling it. And I'm, I'm a blabbermouth, so I can't shut the fuck up anyway. So if there's spots where there's, it's not that interesting-

   20. HDHerb Dean1:04

       Okay, I see what you mean.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       ... I'll just find something interesting to say. (laughs)

   22. HDHerb Dean1:06

       All right. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       But it's not that... It's, you know, uh, in terms of, like, what's, what's happening is happening. You know what I mean? The guy's getting hit, the guy's getting choked. There's a lot of crazy action going on. And it's really f- pretty easy if you're a lifelong fan of martial arts, like I am-

   24. HDHerb Dean1:22

       Right, right, right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       ... to call it. You know, as long as you're enthusiastic-

   26. HDHerb Dean1:25

       Yeah, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       ... and you're interested in d- And you, you know, you gotta treat it with respect. You gotta treat w- it for what it is, you know? You're, you're trying to entertain people.

   28. HDHerb Dean1:32

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       You're trying to, uh, use the, your words in the most, uh, pleasing way possible. You know, you're trying to massage people's ears in, in a way, you know? You're trying to, you're trying to also represent what you're seeing and how special it is.

   30. HDHerb Dean1:47

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. HDHerb Dean15:00

      like... So that's, so that's the thing is, you know, we never wanna see anything that could make you, uh, have a feeling that it's inconclusive, but I can't think of what else I should've done. But, you know, I mean, especially for that, that fight for those two guys, you know.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      Yeah.

   3. HDHerb Dean15:15

      You always want a... Yeah, the people to have a feeling of conclusion there.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      Well, when we talked about it on the phone, when you brought up the, the, the damage, the possible damage to that neck with the bulldog choke-

   5. HDHerb Dean15:25

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:26

      ... that you might be cutting off nerves, and he might be bending the spine in a, in a kind of a fucked up way-

   7. HDHerb Dean15:31

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      ... I really hadn't considered that. When I, when I was thinking of the choke when he grabbed ahold of him, I was just thinking it was a blood choke. But you're right. Like, the way you lean in-

   9. HDHerb Dean15:39

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       ... on a bulldog choke, you lean back.

   11. HDHerb Dean15:41

       Yeah. So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       That's, uh, a lot of pressure on the neck.

   13. HDHerb Dean15:44

       I've, I've had, uh, some chokes where there, uh... I've, I've refereed a fight where a guy did one of these moves. I... You had a move for it, uh, a technique where he's bending the spine backwards-

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       Twister?

   15. HDHerb Dean15:55

       It wasn't a twister. Um, the... I think guys have a name for it. You probably call it The Executioner.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       Do you know what The Executioner is?

   17. HDHerb Dean16:00

       So that's what it was.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       That's what it is.

   19. HDHerb Dean16:01

       That's what it is.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       Can I explai- explain it to people? The, what that is is like if a guy is, uh-

   21. HDHerb Dean16:06

       Okay, tell... Not to cut you off.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:07

       Okay.

   23. HDHerb Dean16:07

       So for so long, I've never really wanted to talk about it 'cause people weren't doing it. This was years ago I saw it, but now if there's a name for it, I guess it's okay. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       (laughs)

   25. HDHerb Dean16:16

       But you hadn't seen a lot of people doing it before, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       Well, we, uh, we started doing it in 10th Planet, uh, a few years back. It's... I think people have done it. What it is basically, folks, it's like a guillotine from the back. Um, it's like taking a re- you have like rear naked choke hooks, but instead of choking a guy this way, which is how you would do it, which is, uh, wrap your forearm underneath his neck and wrap the other arm behind his head. Instead of doing that, you wrap your arm all the way around the front, like a guillotine hold, but from the back, and you have ungodly leverage.

   27. HDHerb Dean16:51

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       It's ungodly how much pressure you can put on someone's neck. And our, our friend Scott Epstein, he, uh, he used it quite a few times, so we called it The Executioner. Is that it there?

   29. HDHerb Dean17:02

       Oh, actually I'm trying to-

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       I think so.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. There are some…

   1. HDHerb Dean30:00

      steroids, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      Yeah. There are some freaks, man.

   3. HDHerb Dean30:02

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      Just some legit genetic freaks. To deny that would be crazy. There's some people that just... Like Yoel Romero.

   5. HDHerb Dean30:09

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      I mean, what in the fuck? (laughs) It doesn't matter how many steroids you take, it doesn't matter what you do.

   7. HDHerb Dean30:14

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      Like, to, to do... look like that, you have to be a genetic freak.

   9. HDHerb Dean30:19

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       You know?

   11. HDHerb Dean30:19

       And they're, and they're out there.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:20

       Oh, they're out there.

   13. HDHerb Dean30:20

       They're walking around. It's not fair. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       Yoel was talking about... (laughs) He was saying, "Go to Cuba."

   15. HDHerb Dean30:25

       Yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:25

       He's like, "Go see the genes. Go see the genes."

   17. HDHerb Dean30:28

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       "Go to Cuba. Look around."

   19. HDHerb Dean30:30

       Yeah. What's his name? Um, what was it? Uh, I think, uh, fighter from France. The heavyweight from France. I mean, he was-

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Francis Ngannou?

   21. HDHerb Dean30:38

       Well, yeah. Francis Ngannou, uh, was a, uh, guy who used to be... The one who had the, the crazy fight with Pat, uh, Pat Barry.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       Oh, Czech Congo.

   23. HDHerb Dean30:46

       Czech Congo, man. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       Oh, yeah. Adonis.

   25. HDHerb Dean30:48

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:49

       Sculpted. Greek statue.

   27. HDHerb Dean30:51

       Mm-hmm. I just always imagined, like, "I want to go to-"

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       (laughs)

   29. HDHerb Dean30:53

       "... where he comes from."

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       Yeah (laughs) .
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Okay. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      program.

   2. HDHerb Dean45:00

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Tell him what to take and how much to take and when to take it.

   4. HDHerb Dean45:02

      Make sure he doesn't get caught.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Yeah. He was... No. Yeah, make sure he didn't get caught, that was one of them, I think. I don't think they drug tested most of the things that he was interested in doing.

   6. HDHerb Dean45:10

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      I think the thing he was doing, he wa- just wanted to see how good he could get.

   8. HDHerb Dean45:13

      Okay, uh, 'cause you said anti-Russia, anti-doping guy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      Yeah, but this-

   10. HDHerb Dean45:16

       So I was... Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       This is, this is why.

   12. HDHerb Dean45:17

       Huh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:17

       This is where it gets to. W- in the middle of him doing this, this Russian anti-doping guy, it comes out that the Russians cheated at the Sochi Olympics, and this Russian anti-doping guy spills the beans to this guy and explains the Russian state-sponsored doping program, that they state-sponsored and doped all their athletes, that everyone was on steroids, and that they hid the urine. They had two separate, like, like, like a secr- secret separate room where they transferred the dirty urine through a hole-

   14. HDHerb Dean45:49

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       ... in the wall and slipped out the good urine, and they put it back in place. So they, they substituted clean urine for the urine that was collected. They opened up the bottles. They found these microscopic scratches on these supposedly unopenable caps to these bottles-

   16. HDHerb Dean46:05

       Uh-huh.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:05

       ... but they ran them under microscopes, and they're like, "Look, they were scratched. These, these things have been opened." The Russians had figured out a way to open the bottle without cracking the seal. (laughs) Did they... They swapped piss. I mean, it was, like, super sophisticated stuff. And this guy details all of it by accident, just 'cause he had hired this guy to give him drugs-

   18. HDHerb Dean46:23

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       ... so he could... He was just trying to run a documentary. Let's see-

   20. HDHerb Dean46:26

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:26

       ... how much better steroids make me at riding the bike. And when all this stuff broke, he just came in at the right place at the right time, and it's amazing.

   22. HDHerb Dean46:35

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       It's amazing. That's why Russia won, like, all these gold medals in the Sochi Olympics. They were all juiced to the tits. (laughs)

   24. HDHerb Dean46:42

       And you're saying all of them, huh?

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:43

       Yes.

   26. HDHerb Dean46:43

       It's just, for me, like, it's, it's just... It's one of those things, like, I just don't have no an- an answer to it. I know there's always gonna be people who are gonna look for an advantage.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Yeah.

   28. HDHerb Dean46:52

       And I think as long as some... there's one person looking for an advantage, then, uh, I think there's... Some people are gonna have the attitude that if there's an advantage out there, I'm a fool for not taking it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       Right.

   30. HDHerb Dean47:03

       Uh, the people who don't take it are people who are, uh, are gifted in some way or have just a, a work ethic that goes beyond, and it's a matter of pride that they don't do it. You know what I mean?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:03:56

   Please. …

   1. HDHerb Dean1:00:00

      man. Be safe down there. Don't be doing all that stuff you do, you know. It's gonna be different because of, you know, America and our history with racism." And, um, I went down there and I was, you know, this is what exp- it's, uh... You mind if you tell the story?

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Please.

   3. HDHerb Dean1:00:13

      Yeah, 'cause this is a story. So I went down there and I was, I was at this show and, and then some, uh, ch- cops come up and they look like the cops from, you know, in the movies from the South that supposed to scare you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

      Mm-hmm.

   5. HDHerb Dean1:00:24

      And I took a picture with them and they're like, and somebody else came to take a picture and they were like, "Oh, look what we started." Going, "No, man. I'm gonna do this. Uh, that's what I'm here to do. I'm gonna hang out with people and I'm gonna referee fights and I'm gonna, you know, talk to people as they wanna talk." So, I took a lot of pictures. They were impressed. They were saying that, you know, they've seen other people, you know, you know, tell people no about pictures. And they got all excited. They're like, "Hey, hey," um, "We want you to come out and pull people over with us."

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

      (laughs)

   7. HDHerb Dean1:00:49

      Uh, I'm like, "No, no. I don't wanna do that. I have no interest in doing that."

   8. NANarrator1:00:53

      Ah.

   9. HDHerb Dean1:00:53

      You know. I, I'm, I grew up in LA, you know what I mean? Like, they're like, and they were getting pumped. They're like, imagine like, "You're getting pulled over by Herb Ding, bitch." Yeah, yeah." And I'm like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       Oh.

   11. HDHerb Dean1:01:01

       ... "No, no. I don't wanna do it." And they, uh, then one guy was, um...

   12. NANarrator1:01:04

       (laughs)

   13. HDHerb Dean1:01:04

       He goes, "Well, well some, do something. I mean, we wanna make this, do something. Tase me or something, hurt me." So like he grabs this- his taser gun and sticks the taser in my hand.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       Jesus Christ. (laughs)

   15. HDHerb Dean1:01:14

       And I'm sitting there and I'm like, "What the fuck?" So I start tasing him, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       (laughs)

   17. NANarrator1:01:20

       (laughs)

   18. HDHerb Dean1:01:20

       I'm tasing this, tasing this guy and he's like...He tased me.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:23

       (laughs)

   20. HDHerb Dean1:01:23

       I'm like, uh, um- um- I've... So then, um, I- I- after the tasing, uh, his bu- uh, one of the, um, agents, one of the guys who's working with me comes up and tells him I have... he has some business to talk about with me. And I go, "Wait, what did you want to talk about?" He goes, "Man, I could see you were so uncomfortable with what was going on, that I just wanted to give..." I was like, "Thanks."

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

       (laughs)

   22. HDHerb Dean1:01:41

       So I get back to... I get back to my hotel room, and I- I was thinking. I was like, "Man, you know, I'm worried about people pre-judging and being intolerant. I'm pre-judging of these guys because of, uh, some history and these guys are really cool. If I ever get the opportunity to see these guys, I'm going to be, you know, man." And- and I did. They came like... Right then, the phone rings, I swear, and they took me to an after-party and-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:06

       Really?

   24. HDHerb Dean1:02:06

       They're like... Yeah. They took me like... And it was like... The place looks like Road House and... You know what I mean?

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:11

       (laughs)

   26. HDHerb Dean1:02:11

       Like, the whole... everything you see, like, in a movie, like, like, you know, some... You know, "And your wife's not going to be happy about that," and, "And I'm going to catch you next week." One of those type of things.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       Right.

   28. HDHerb Dean1:02:20

       Yeah. Drove me to the airport with the lights on. Skrrt. You know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:23

       (laughs)

   30. HDHerb Dean1:02:24

       Yeah. I- I think... I think I should have the picture of me tasing him. I could show it to you.

Episode duration: 2:51:59