JRE MMA Show #66 with Michelle Waterson

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Two, one. Hello, Michelle.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Two, one. Hello, Michelle.

   2. MWMichelle Waterson0:05

      (laughs) How's it going?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      (laughs)

   4. MWMichelle Waterson0:06

      I was getting ready to crack my neck. So (laughs) it-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Oh, go ahead. Crack your neck.

   6. MWMichelle Waterson0:09

      I feel like I'm-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Put it on, put the microphone to it so we can hear it. Does it pop?

   8. MWMichelle Waterson0:12

      I think I just popped it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Okay. Ooh.

   10. MWMichelle Waterson0:14

       Did you hear-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:14

       That was a good one.

   12. MWMichelle Waterson0:16

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:16

       That was a good one. Do you do that all the time?

   14. MWMichelle Waterson0:18

       Just when I'm getting ready to fight.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Throw down? (laughs)

   16. MWMichelle Waterson0:22

       Yeah. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       Pull this, uh, microphone like a fist from your face. There we go.

   18. MWMichelle Waterson0:24

       Is that better?

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Yeah, perfect, perfect.

   20. MWMichelle Waterson0:27

       All right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       So what's happening?

   22. MWMichelle Waterson0:27

       No, we're just in town, um, uh, my brother-in-law just moved, just got stationed here in California, so we drove him down, and then we did the whole Disney thing.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       San Diego?

   24. MWMichelle Waterson0:37

       Um, no. I think it's, it's actually an hour f- south of here, I think. S- it, it's not-

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Oh, okay.

   26. MWMichelle Waterson0:45

       ... close by, but mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Cool.

   28. MWMichelle Waterson0:48

       Air Force.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Oh, okay.

   30. MWMichelle Waterson0:49

       And so we did the whole Disney thing.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      but she gained a lot of fans, because she didn't have any pro Muay Thai fights and she fought a woman who, like, she couldn't get a fight for almost three years, 'cause girls were ducking her-

   2. MWMichelle Waterson15:08

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      ... 'cause they didn't want to fight her.

   4. MWMichelle Waterson15:10

      Muay Thai's brutal. I feel like... 'Cause it, d-... My husband and I talk about this all the time, because in MMA you have options.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MWMichelle Waterson15:16

      Like, if you're havin'... If you're having trouble in the stand up, you can take them down, you can work your grappling this or that. In boxing, you don't really have much options. Either you, you give u-... You get knocked out or you give up, you know, in the corner.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MWMichelle Waterson15:27

      And I feel it's the same way in Mma-... in Muay Thai, except for now you're introducing knees and shins and elbows.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      Elbows, yeah. Sure.

   10. MWMichelle Waterson15:34

       And, like, those cut.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:36

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MWMichelle Waterson15:36

       And you have no way out. Like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Yeah.

   14. MWMichelle Waterson15:38

       ... you know? So that's, that's brutal.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       Yeah, it's a rough sport. And an incredibly exciting sport to watch, and one that I've never understood. I mean, boxing is so gigantic in this country, and Muay Thai has almost no presence. And I j-... I've just... It baffles me to no end. I mean, they, they have the product.

   16. MWMichelle Waterson15:56

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       I mean, th-... And they have great American fighters, I mean, like Joe Schilling, Kevin Ross, and there's, there's, uh, a ton of them. And there's guys like John Wayne Parr from Australia, and all these guys that are exciting to watch and fun and, and then there's so many elite kids that are coming up.

   18. MWMichelle Waterson16:10

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       But there's no mainstream appeal. It doesn't... I don't understand it.

   20. MWMichelle Waterson16:14

       I don't know why either.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       Yeah.

   22. MWMichelle Waterson16:16

       That's... That is crazy to think.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       They need a thing like the UFC-

   24. MWMichelle Waterson16:19

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       ... where something comes along and they dump a b-... a ton of money into it. But the thing is, like, there's only... People only have so much time to watch things.

   26. MWMichelle Waterson16:28

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       So it's like, "Oh, Deontay Wilder's fighting. I'll watch that. Oh, you know, uh, Tyron Woodley's fighting. I'll watch him."

   28. MWMichelle Waterson16:36

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       You know, "Oh, Jon Jones is fighting. I'll watch that. What's this Muay Thai? Ah, this fight's on. I'm gonna watch Bellator instead. I'm gonna watch that instead." It's like there's... It's almost, like, too saturated.

   30. MWMichelle Waterson16:45

       Yeah, that's true.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   No one does. …

   1. MWMichelle Waterson30:00

      I don't think that's fair either.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:01

      No one does.

   3. MWMichelle Waterson30:01

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      No one does except transgender people. Transgender people and super progressive activists who have no idea how sports work.

   5. MWMichelle Waterson30:09

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      It's a, it's ... Those are the people, the people that just want inclusiveness and they just want everyone to be okay and, you know, "Maybe this is the world I'm looking for. I'm look- I'm looking towards a world where everyone's included."

   7. MWMichelle Waterson30:20

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:20

      (coughs) Yeah. Good. Have a transgender league.... have a transgender division. No, I'm cool with that. I'll be happil- happily support them. But you're pretending that that's a woman-

   9. MWMichelle Waterson30:31

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:31

       ... and it's not. It's a male who's transitioning to a woman, you have an XY chromosome, it's a different thing.

   11. MWMichelle Waterson30:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       You know, I, I'm 100%, if a woman says, "I want to fight a transgender woman," okay. I'm 100% e-

   13. MWMichelle Waterson30:44

       Let it happen.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:44

       That's fine.

   15. MWMichelle Waterson30:45

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       But, like, for leagues to recognize that this is the same thing-

   17. MWMichelle Waterson30:49

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:49

       ... and, like, to say... Like, how would you feel if all of the UFC's weight classes in the women's division were dominated by transgender women?

   19. MWMichelle Waterson30:57

       I would feel like th- there were some (laughs) ... I feel like I should not say something (laughs) today.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Right, right, right. Yeah.

   21. MWMichelle Waterson31:04

       I feel like I'm gonna get caught up saying something that I shouldn't say (laughs) .

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       Yeah, let me talk for you. It's fucking bullshit. It's fucking bullshit, right?

   23. MWMichelle Waterson31:11

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       Yeah. You don't have to say anything. And that's how girls feel right now when their sport's being dominated in track and field.

   25. MWMichelle Waterson31:17

       Yeah, that's not fair. Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       That's so... It's not fair.

   27. MWMichelle Waterson31:18

       Mm-hmm. I mean, I... Is it... I guess, for me, I've always been, especially like being a female in a male dominant sport, I've always... I've... I guess w- if I can, like, like, like to consider myself a feminist, not, not so much a feminist, but I... Like, when I go into the gym, I, my teammates look at me as a fighter. Like, they don't look at me as a female fighter or anything like that, they look at me as their teammate. You know what I mean? And, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that they tre- treat me as an athlete and, and, and all of that good stuff. But I feel like w-... Like, at the end of the day, like, girls need to fight girls and guys need to fight guys. We... Like, we have different strengths than the guys do and the guys have different strengths than the girls do and, and it's, it's nice for us to have a place so that we can showcase our skills.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       Yes, I agree. I think the only problem that I have with that transitioning thing is physical competition. That's it. Physical competition against the gender that you supposedly align with.

   29. MWMichelle Waterson32:17

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       You know, you, you can't do it. But here's what you don't see. Here's what you don't see. You don't see a lot of transgender men who wanna fight men. You don't see a lot of women who are taking hormones, uh, to become a man who wanna fight men.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. You think so?…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      '93 and put them into 2018, like, they would fit perfect, right?

   2. MWMichelle Waterson45:04

      Yeah. You think so?

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Roy Jones Jr.?

   4. MWMichelle Waterson45:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:06

      Shit.

   6. MWMichelle Waterson45:07

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Roy Jones Jr. when he's in his prime, today everybody'd be fucked.

   8. MWMichelle Waterson45:11

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Today.

   10. MWMichelle Waterson45:11

       That's true.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:12

       They'd be fucked.

   12. MWMichelle Waterson45:13

       I feel like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       He was just something special. Bernard Hopkins.

   14. MWMichelle Waterson45:15

       It's just, like, that boxing mentality is, like, so old school and you gotta stick to the traditions. Even, it's, it's kind of like taboo to, to see s- like, fighters switching stance, which some of them-

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       Really?

   16. MWMichelle Waterson45:26

       ... like the good ones are. I feel-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:27

       How is it taboo?

   18. MWMichelle Waterson45:28

       Well, 'cause Josh, like, my husband, he boxed, you know, and he has a lot, he had a lot of old boxing coaches that were like, "You don't switch stance. Like, you stick to your stance and you perfect that stance," you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Those people are out of their fucking mind.

   20. MWMichelle Waterson45:38

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       You watch Terence Crawford, that's one of the things he does so brilliantly.

   22. MWMichelle Waterson45:41

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       He, he is as good as a southpaw as he is orthodox. And it's one of the reasons why he's so difficult to solve.

   24. MWMichelle Waterson45:48

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       'Cause if you think you got a read on his timing and then all of a sudden-

   26. MWMichelle Waterson45:52

       Switch stance.

   27. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       ... you're looking at a right jab-

   28. MWMichelle Waterson45:53

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       ... instead of a left jab now, like, "Oh, shit."

   30. MWMichelle Waterson45:55

       Maybe it's, maybe it's just that I watch MMA and, or more focus on MMA than I am in boxing.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:07:57

   ... if you wanna…

   1. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      ... if you wanna compete in the sport.

   3. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:01

      I guess just 'cause I've been doing it for so long-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:03

      ... it's just, it's ... And in my head, it's like, you know, there are only a couple of things you have to do as a fighter. Cutting weight is one of them.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Right.

   7. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:08

      If you can't do that, then, you know. It, it, it is hard, I, I feel. It, I d- it's a process that you have to go through, and you have to be mentally prepared to go through it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:19

      And if you do it right-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

       (sighs)

   11. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:21

       ... it, it should only be water that you're cutting, even though that's silly to do. I don't know how t- how d-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       It's, it's silly to do.

   13. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:28

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       It's not good.

   15. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:28

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       It's never good to just cut that water. It's just not.

   17. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:31

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

       It's not good for you. But if you do it, if you, if you do it intelligently where you're not cutting too much weight-

   19. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:38

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

       ... it's not that bad.

   21. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:38

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

       But so many people are doing these brutal 30-pound weight cuts.

   23. MWMichelle Waterson1:00:42

       I just, I feel like at that point, it's, it's not a benefit for you. Like, some, for some people, they are the bigger person coming into the, to the octagon the next day. But you're gonna reach a point, certain point where cutting weight is not a benefit for you.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

       Maybe. I'm s- uh, you know, that's ... If you can do it and you pull it off, especially if you're young and you figure out how to do it correctly and replenish your electrolytes, you know, it is an advantage-

   25. MWMichelle Waterson1:01:07

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       ... to be bigger. But the reality is, you're n- what, whatever weight class that is, that's not what you weigh.

   27. MWMichelle Waterson1:01:12

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

       You don't really weigh that much. You weigh, y- it's like, it's crazy. Like, you should be ... It should be about skill versus skill.

   29. MWMichelle Waterson1:01:19

       Yeah, I agree.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       It shouldn't be about who's got the best scientists.

Episode duration: 1:49:43