JRE MMA Show #79 with Vinny Shoreman & Liam Harrison

1. 0:03 – 2:03

   Birthdays, aging pains, and getting injured in embarrassing ways

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      Here we go. Liam and Vinnie-

   2. VSVinny Shoreman0:05

      Hello.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      ... my savage friends from mother England.

   4. LHLiam Harrison0:07

      Thank you for being back.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Good to see you again, man. What's happening? How's, how's it been?

   6. VSVinny Shoreman0:10

      All sorts of things are going on, Joe. All sorts of things.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Now, strange as well, ha-happy birthday, sir.

   8. LHLiam Harrison0:16

      Birthday boy over here as well, 50 today.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      I appreciate it.

   10. LHLiam Harrison0:16

       (laughs)

   11. VSVinny Shoreman0:16

       Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       You don't look a day over 49 and a half. Looking good. (laughs)

   13. VSVinny Shoreman0:20

       I can feel it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       (laughs)

   15. VSVinny Shoreman0:21

       Jesus.

   16. LHLiam Harrison0:22

       I feel it. I pulled a muscle in my leg bowling last night.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Oh, no.

   18. LHLiam Harrison0:26

       Bad news, man.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       When you're a world kickboxing champion and you pull a muscle bowling, those are sad times.

   20. LHLiam Harrison0:30

       It was, it was pathetic, innit mate? It was pathetic.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       (laughs)

   22. VSVinny Shoreman0:32

       Ah, you're just settling-

   23. LHLiam Harrison0:32

       I was looking at myself in the mirror this morning when I got up and thought, "You are a loser, mate."

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       (laughs)

   25. LHLiam Harrison0:35

       "What have you done?"

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       One of my worst neck injuries I ever got was in the shower. I was just turning-

   27. LHLiam Harrison0:39

       I mean, I did that, I was brushing my teeth.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       ... to get my shampoo-

   29. LHLiam Harrison0:41

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       ... just like that, I went, "Ah, fuck, fuck, fuck!" (laughs) It just popped. Right, look at that, knocked over Rory MacDonald and Bruce Lee-
2. 2:03 – 4:44

   Lomachenko’s insane record, Luke Campbell’s toughness, and Vinny’s A&E visit

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      You know, the, the craziest record ever is probably Lomachenko, right?

   2. VSVinny Shoreman2:06

      Yep.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      Because didn't he only have one loss in the amateurs?

   4. VSVinny Shoreman2:09

      Yes.

   5. LHLiam Harrison2:09

      Three hundred and ninety wins?

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:11

      Something crazy like that.

   7. VSVinny Shoreman2:12

      397.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:13

      397 wins, one loss...

   9. VSVinny Shoreman2:16

      Yeah, which he re- which he reversed twice.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Yeah. And then one loss in the pros.

   11. VSVinny Shoreman2:20

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       And-

   13. LHLiam Harrison2:20

       He's obviously not taking too much damage either because of his style, but even making weight 300 and however many times, 398 times-

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       Yeah.

   15. LHLiam Harrison2:26

       ... making his weight and stuff, that takes its... Its... Yeah?

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:28

       Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's-

   17. LHLiam Harrison2:29

       Being on a diet for that long and just being that strict for that long, it's impressive, that.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       Well, as he's moving up, he's not cutting as much though.

   19. LHLiam Harrison2:36

       No. Yeah, true.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:36

       Like in his third weight class. This is his third weight class, right? What does he-

   21. VSVinny Shoreman2:39

       Yeah, they're on about him moving down as well, so we'll see.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       What is his... He's going up and down?

   23. VSVinny Shoreman2:43

       Yeah. That's what Bob Arum said.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:44

       What is, um... So, but his last fight against, uh, the Englishman. What is his name? Connelly?

   25. VSVinny Shoreman2:49

       Luke Campbell.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       Campbell.

   27. VSVinny Shoreman2:50

       I was there.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:51

       It was a great fight.

   29. VSVinny Shoreman2:52

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       That kid's good.
3. 4:44 – 8:42

   Hot yoga reality check: toughness, hydration, and sauna-like benefits

   1. LHLiam Harrison4:44

      I'll tell... I'll tell you what. Last time, though, when you were on and you told me to do a bit of re- hot yoga you said-

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:48

      Yes.

   3. LHLiam Harrison4:49

      I did it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:49

      Yeah.

   5. LHLiam Harrison4:50

      I- I've just started recently, my girlfriend started doing it, I've just started doing a bit with her. Mate, fuck me. That is like the hardest shit I've ever done in my life.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:57

      (laughs)

   7. VSVinny Shoreman4:57

      (laughs)

   8. LHLiam Harrison4:57

      And you said last time, "Oh, have a joint and go do it. It's amazing." I had a few, like, blasts on vape last night and I just melted into the bed. I couldn't do that and then go do that. No way.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:04

      Yeah, you could once you get in there. It, uh, you actually, it's crazy. It seems like you can't, but I, I love to get high and do it because it's like I feel everything. I know, I'm, I'm in tune. I get like 100% transmission from all muscle fibers.

   10. LHLiam Harrison5:17

       But the thing is as well though, like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       And know where I am.

   12. LHLiam Harrison5:19

       ... you, the beginners all go out the back, so I went out the back and there's like this one little old guy on there, thought, "Oh, I'll be f- fucking cool next to this guy, it's all right. I won't humiliate meself." And he's bending around doing it all perfect and-

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:28

       (laughs)

   14. LHLiam Harrison5:28

       I admit, so I have good balance.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       (laughs)

   16. LHLiam Harrison5:29

       I'm at 115 fights, so if I should have good balance. I'm stood there shaking on one leg and this fella's going, "Right, don't stop, don't stop." And it's like, you're not stopping until he stops. Mate, it took about 45 minutes in and I was just like shaking all over. I had to stop for follow through.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       It's fucking hard, man.

   18. LHLiam Harrison5:42

       Mate... (exhales)

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:43

       It's fucking hard.

   20. LHLiam Harrison5:43

       Serious.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       Those old ladies make you feel stupid.

   22. LHLiam Harrison5:46

       Yeah. (laughs)

   23. VSVinny Shoreman5:47

       (laughs) 100%.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       (laughs)

   25. LHLiam Harrison5:48

       (laughs)

   26. VSVinny Shoreman5:48

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       It's one of those things where people look at it like it's some relaxing thing. It's one of the most m- underestimated a- activities you can do in terms of, like, the amount of stress and strain that's required.

   28. LHLiam Harrison5:59

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:59

       It's fucking hard, man.

   30. LHLiam Harrison6:00

       You know what? I've never sweat like it in my life, even when I've been in a sauna to lose weight for a fight and stuff.
4. 8:42 – 13:33

   Knee surgery, NHS wait times, stem cells/peptides, and Vinny’s hip limitations

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:42

      How was your knee? I know you had, uh, knee surgery.

   2. LHLiam Harrison8:44

      Oh, yeah, um, it's g- all good now. That was in... I did it in Thailand in December. I had a f-

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:51

      You had a load, you got surgery in Thailand?

   4. LHLiam Harrison8:52

      No, no, I did the injury-

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:54

      Oh, I was like, "Woo!"

   6. LHLiam Harrison8:54

      ... in December and my leg started locking all the time, and I f- I had a fight come... yeah, fuck that. (laughs)

   7. VSVinny Shoreman8:58

      (laughs)

   8. LHLiam Harrison8:58

      Not a chance, mate. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:00

      You'll get some crazy ass staph infection right there.

   10. LHLiam Harrison9:02

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no way. Um, so I did the injury in December just before I was training for a fight in the end of January, and my leg started locking so I didn't really know what it was. So I thought, "I'll get in the fight all the way, then I'll go see my specialist, get an MRI and see what's what." Did the fight, got through the fight, won the fight, didn't throw my left leg once. And I thought, "Oh, it's all right now," went back to the gym, I threw one kick and then men- meniscus tore. It got stuck in my knee joint, so my leg locked.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       Mm.

   12. LHLiam Harrison9:25

       Like totally bent, so I couldn't walk.

   13. VSVinny Shoreman9:28

       I've had that exact same injury.

   14. LHLiam Harrison9:29

       Oh, my God.

   15. VSVinny Shoreman9:30

       It's crazy painful.

   16. LHLiam Harrison9:30

       It was f- fucking h- thi- well, honestly, uh, the, one of the worst things I've ever felt. I was rolling ar- around on the floor like I'd been shot.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       Yeah.

   18. LHLiam Harrison9:36

       Uh, I went to the hospital and I thought because it was so bad and I'm just saying like, "It's my job. They'll might fast track me a little bit." Went to the hospital, "Oh, no, we'll let you see, um... We'll let you go for an MRI. We'll give you... We'll ring you with an appointment." So I had to go home. I was sat at home for like four days before they'd even ring. I thought, "Fuck this, I'm going private." So I went private. By the time I'd had an MRI which told me what it was and had the surgery, I'd only just got a letter to go have an MRI from the hospital, so they were just gonna leave me there for fucking however long I was sat there watching my, my leg turn into a toothpick-

   19. VSVinny Shoreman10:03

       Yeah.

   20. LHLiam Harrison10:03

       ... while muscle wasting away and everything, so...

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       That's the downside of socialized medicine, right?

   22. LHLiam Harrison10:07

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       Big lines.

   24. VSVinny Shoreman10:08

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       Canada, it's rough. I had a friend, she had to wait over a year to get a le- a knee surgery.

   26. VSVinny Shoreman10:13

       Damn.

   27. LHLiam Harrison10:13

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:13

       She had a torn ACL. Over a year with a bad knee, just hobbling around with one, you know, it's...

   29. LHLiam Harrison10:20

       That's the pain that they just let me know of.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       Good and it's bad, right? It's good and it's bad.
5. 13:33 – 16:16

   Fighting for ONE Championship and adapting to small gloves

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:33

      So how is fighting in ONE FC? Are you enjoying that?

   2. LHLiam Harrison13:35

      Oh, it's sick, man. I f-

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      Is it?

   4. LHLiam Harrison13:37

      Absolutely, I love it. Um, I'm just, I'm gutted that it, it didn't come around earlier. And now, I'm, I'm, like, 33 now, so I've only, 'cause I've only got, like, three or four years left. 100% wanna finish my, my career, like, with those guys and put in a good run with them. Um-

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:50

      I, I need to see an-

   6. LHLiam Harrison13:51

      The l- the little g-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:51

      ... event. I hear it's amazing.

   8. LHLiam Harrison13:52

      The, oh, mate, so, seriously, I've, I've fought all over the world and stuff, and, like, the, the production and everything there is absolutely unbelievable. Like, Yochai Trece is a top guy as well.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:01

      Now, how do they make the rule sets? 'Cause some fights are with kickboxing gloves, some fights are with MMA gloves.

   10. LHLiam Harrison14:08

       Yeah, uh, I'm not too sure, to be honest. I think when they send you the contract over, you can say, "Oh, well, I don't wanna fight in MMA. We'll you fight in the kickboxing?" So I think it's the mana- the team, the management team that, that get a say in it. Like, my manager, Richard, he's always said, uh, "No, no, it's dangerous fighting in MMA gloves. You'll break your hands. You'll shorten your career." And I'm like, "Nah, fuck that. I j- I wanna do it before I retire." I said, "I'm old as shit anyway now for fight wise, and I'm coming to a end." I said, "I wanna do it." Um, I remember when I went out, it was, well, first round, I went bang with a jab. I thought, "Fucking hell, that felt amazing." And then he hit me, and I went, "Whoa." (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       (laughs)

   12. LHLiam Harrison14:37

       I went, "Whoa, that weren't a glove." It were like in Home Alone when-

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:40

       How much difference-

   14. LHLiam Harrison14:40

       ... Marv gets smashed with iron on his face. That's what I felt like.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       How much difference is it with the little gloves?

   16. LHLiam Harrison14:44

       It's, it's weird because obviously the glove's spongy, so that, like, it, it wobbles your head a little bit. That was just, like, a sharp bang. Just like a bare knuckle basically because those, one gloves as well, they're tiny.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:54

       Mm-hmm.

   18. LHLiam Harrison14:54

       There's not much, not much padding in them whatsoever. But-

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:57

       But boxing gloves feel more spongy, is that what you're saying?

   20. LHLiam Harrison15:00

       Y- yeah, it, it, that, when you get hit with a boxing glove, it, like, if you get hit on the chin, it wobbles, like, your whole head because it's such a, a big surface area to hit.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       Mm-hmm.

   22. LHLiam Harrison15:06

       Like, with those little gloves, you're hitting it in, like, one, one point or... I got cut, like, four times on one eye just from, I took, like, three or four right hands, and every one of them, like, cut me. So that's how, how dangerous they are. But I made a stupid mistake in that fight. Uh, in Muay Thai with the long gloves, I'll do long guard a lot because it works with the bigger gloves on.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:22

       Right.

   24. LHLiam Harrison15:22

       So I can protect myself. I did it once in that fight and got caught with an overhand right, right on my ear. My balance went, I had stuck a knee, got an eight count, came back up, and then I were chasing the fight after that. And then even though round three I absolutely battered him, I cut him bad, and I'd nearly stopped him with leg kicks. It were only a three-round fight.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Mm-hmm.

   26. LHLiam Harrison15:37

       So I'd lost one round 10-8, so first round we're even, second round, him 10-8, first, third round I battered him. But it were too late by then. So one mistake in them gloves, and it is...

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       That's interesting that it g- it makes you reassess your defense, right?

   28. LHLiam Harrison15:49

       Yeah. Well, it's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       'Cause your, your defenses depen- like, you see a lot of guys, like, Badr. Like, Badr always fought like this-

   30. LHLiam Harrison15:54

       Yeah.
6. 16:16 – 19:24

   Bare-knuckle boxing, Lethwei, and why ‘no gloves’ sounds better than it is

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:16

      What did you think when, um, they had that bare knuckle boxing event, Polimaulanagi-

   2. LHLiam Harrison16:21

      (sighs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:21

      ... fought Artem Levin?

   4. LHLiam Harrison16:22

      Um, uh, Ar-

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:23

      See, see, that's a br-

   6. LHLiam Harrison16:24

      Artem Lobov.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:25

      Yeah, I was about to say, Ar-

   8. LHLiam Harrison16:26

      Artem, yeah, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:26

      Artem Lobov, sorry. That's a, that's one of the more interesting cases 'cause you've got a guy in Polimaulanagi who's the legitimate world champion and world class boxer. You know, few years past his prime-

   10. LHLiam Harrison16:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       ... and hasn't really been fighting.

   12. LHLiam Harrison16:38

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       But then you see him fight a guy like Artem Lobov, who's used to fighting with MMA gloves. There's not much of a difference fighting bare knuckle.... and Blovov actually winds up-

   14. LHLiam Harrison16:46

       They won, yeah, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       ... beating him in a decision, which nobody fucking saw coming.

   16. LHLiam Harrison16:49

       No. Maybe a little bit.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman16:50

       Yeah, and he's, Paulie's not a puncher anyway, is he?

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:52

       No.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman16:52

       So to go into that (sighs) against a guy that's naturally bigger as well.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       But you would've still thought that he-

   21. LHLiam Harrison16:57

       I still thought he'd done enough to, uh, put him down.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:59

       Yeah. He wouldn't have known enough. You know, like, a guy like Roy Jones Jr., you're not out-boxing him. You know what I'm saying? Like if some, uh, i- just like, a world-class boxer, you would imagine even if he's bare-knuckled-

   23. LHLiam Harrison17:09

       A few little tricks just to get him-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       ... he's still gonna fuck you up.

   25. LHLiam Harrison17:11

       Yeah. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       He just, he's just gonna make the adjustments.

   27. LHLiam Harrison17:14

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       I wonder how he trained for it.

   29. LHLiam Harrison17:16

       (sighs) God knows. No idea.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       You know what I mean? Did he box with bare knuckles? Like, how did he-
7. 19:24 – 22:51

   Small gloves, instinct under pressure, and unlearning bad habits

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:24

      Well, we've seen that with, you know, MMA fighters with really top flight kickboxers like Gokhan Saki.

   2. LHLiam Harrison19:29

      Mm-hmm.

   3. VSVinny Shoreman19:29

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:29

      When Gokhan Saki fought Khalil Rountree, and Khalil just cracked him with one left hand and dropped him. It's like it's a different world-

   5. LHLiam Harrison19:35

      Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:35

      ... with those little gloves.

   7. LHLiam Harrison19:36

      100%.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:37

      I mean, you thought Gokhan Saki, man, he is one of the elite of the elite in kickboxing. He's, in MMA, if anybody's gonna beat him, it's gonna be on the ground.

   9. LHLiam Harrison19:44

      Yeah.

   10. VSVinny Shoreman19:44

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       You know, but-

   12. LHLiam Harrison19:45

       You don't expect anyone to be kicking them, though.

   13. VSVinny Shoreman19:46

       But it's all Yeah.

   14. LHLiam Harrison19:46

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:46

       Anybody can get caught with those little gloves.

   16. LHLiam Harrison19:48

       Yeah.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman19:48

       Yeah, exactly.

   18. LHLiam Harrison19:48

       Like I said, as well, I did like long guard like that-

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       Yeah.

   20. LHLiam Harrison19:50

       ... which was really stupid. I trained the whole time as well not to do that, and w-

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:54

       Instinct.

   22. LHLiam Harrison19:55

       Yeah, exactly.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       Yeah.

   24. LHLiam Harrison19:56

       You go back to what feels comfortable, don't you?

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Right. That's-

   26. LHLiam Harrison19:57

       And it, it cost me.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       That's one of the craziest things about fighting, right? Is that y- you f- you train for years and years and years, and then you have this style, and then you try to make adjustments during the fight. But as soon as things get crazy-

   28. LHLiam Harrison20:10

       You go back to what you know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:10

       ... you go right back.

   30. LHLiam Harrison20:11

       Yeah.
8. 22:51 – 24:11

   Legendary kick power and style translation: Cro Cop, Hoost, Aerts, and MMA variables

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:51

      I don't know if he had a Kyokushin background. I know he had a, a traditional martial art background when he got into kickboxing. But see, here's a good example of a guy who made that transition well into MMA because he was so explosive. Whereas there's other guys like, like if you had a guy like Peter Aerts, who wasn't as explosive-

   2. LHLiam Harrison23:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:09

      ... he wasn't like... He was more of a technician-

   4. VSVinny Shoreman23:11

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:11

      ... and methodical, or Ernesto, Ernesto Hoost.

   6. LHLiam Harrison23:15

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:15

      They probably wouldn't have had the same sort of-

   8. LHLiam Harrison23:17

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:17

      ... success in MMA as, as Mirko did.

   10. LHLiam Harrison23:20

       Yeah, definitely.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:20

       Like remember when, uh, Ernesto fought Bob Sapp?

   12. VSVinny Shoreman23:23

       Yep.

   13. LHLiam Harrison23:24

       Oh, yeah. Lost that one, didn't he?

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:25

       Even though it's, it's-

   15. LHLiam Harrison23:25

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:25

       ... twice, he got stopped by him.

   17. LHLiam Harrison23:26

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       He couldn't keep him off of him.

   19. LHLiam Harrison23:28

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:28

       Where Mirk- Mirko fucking murked him.

   21. LHLiam Harrison23:30

       Yeah.

   22. VSVinny Shoreman23:30

       Yeah, Mi- Mirko cracked him.

   23. LHLiam Harrison23:31

       Where if you're gonna do that in MMA, a wrestler trying to grab hold of him, he'd be done with him, do you know what I mean? So...

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:35

       Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You need to have that exp- uh, Mirko had that explosiveness that those guys didn't have. It's interesting how like d- so many variables change what a fight is. No gloves versus gloves-

   25. LHLiam Harrison23:48

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:48

       ... changes what a fight is, changes your ability to defend yourself. And then, you know, w- whether or not there's take downs or, or g- grappling. Like that's one thing about kickboxing versus Muay Thai, it's like people say, "Well, I like kickboxing because it's more action 'cause you can't clinch." I'm like, "Yeah, but..."

   27. LHLiam Harrison24:04

       Yeah, but you're not gonna get fucking elbowed straight in face are you? Know what I mean?

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       Yeah. And the knees to the body-

   29. LHLiam Harrison24:08

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:08

       ... and the, from the clinch, and trying to escape from the clinch is an art in itself, and...

9. 24:11 – 31:27

   Dutch/Moroccan evolution, Badr Hari vs Rico, and PED talk

   1. VSVinny Shoreman24:11

      It depends who it is. I mean, now that the Dut- when the, the, the generic Just Dukh- Dutch style, like your Aerts, Carmen, um, and Ernesto Hoost.

   2. LHLiam Harrison24:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. VSVinny Shoreman24:21

      Now, the Dutch style has changed, especially the Moroccans, the, the guy that's training, uh, Badr Hari now, Saeid El Badoui, different style altogether.

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:28

      How so?

   5. VSVinny Shoreman24:29

      Um, they use more leg kicks and throw knees up the middle. They're really quick with knees now.

   6. LHLiam Harrison24:33

      Yeah, they are dangerous with that.

   7. VSVinny Shoreman24:34

      A lot more going-

   8. LHLiam Harrison24:35

      Knees to the head, they can knee you s- in, in the face from a distance.

   9. VSVinny Shoreman24:37

      Yeah. And they'll hook you in the body and then they'll, they'll right knee up your middle. It's, it's just a different angle altogether. It's like the attack with, with more sort of, um, more of eclectic mix of stuff, you know.

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:47

       This gentleman who's training Badr Hari, who has he trained before?

   11. VSVinny Shoreman24:49

       Uh, uh, Ilyas Belaid. He's a fantastic fighter.

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       Yeah.

   13. VSVinny Shoreman24:53

       He's, he's just... He signed for Bellator. He's from Enfusion. Uh, he trained Melvin for his last fight. Melvin looked good in his last fight as well.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:59

       He did look good in his last fight.

   15. VSVinny Shoreman25:00

       Yes, sir. He looked so.

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:01

       Yeah. I mean, a lot of people thought Melvin was done.

   17. VSVinny Shoreman25:02

       Yeah. I really like... And he's a good guy as well. He's from a El Atmane gym and Noureddine El Atmane was a, a good coach as well. He's got some good fighters. But it's these kids that you don't get to see 'cause I... Because on Fu-

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:12

       Right.

   19. VSVinny Shoreman25:12

       ... and Enfusion, who I work for, they have like an Enfusion Talent. So I see all the new kids coming through-

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:17

       Yes.

   21. VSVinny Shoreman25:17

       ... and they are fucking lethal, these Moroccans.

   22. LHLiam Harrison25:19

       Yeah, them Dutch Moroccan boys, mate.

   23. VSVinny Shoreman25:20

       Uh, you've seen them, yeah.

   24. LHLiam Harrison25:21

       Yeah, they're fucking scary. Scary some of them. Some of the healers.

   25. VSVinny Shoreman25:22

       Nabil Harouli. You know, Nabil Harouli, Tyson-

   26. LHLiam Harrison25:24

       Yeah, Tyson.

   27. VSVinny Shoreman25:24

       You've seen him. You like him.

   28. LHLiam Harrison25:25

       Yeah.

   29. VSVinny Shoreman25:25

       He's some... Good kids.

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       It is a wild, uh, group of people.
10. 31:27 – 53:57

    Sparring smarter: reducing damage, preserving longevity, and S&C integration

    1. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       You know? I mean- Yeah. Yeah, and I've had to, I've done that. Like the older I've got, I've changed my training up. We used to spar. I had quite a lot of bad company. We don't do that. I really, well, I don't myself. Maybe once a week, head guards on, just hard boxing sparring, but I don't do any hard kick sparring at all anymore. Really?

    2. LHLiam Harrison31:42

       I just said no. No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       How come?

    4. LHLiam Harrison31:44

       I just don't wanna save myself. I don't wanna injure myself. Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       Is it knees? You're worried about your knees?

    6. LHLiam Harrison31:47

       Yeah, a little bit.

    7. JRJoe Rogan31:48

       Yeah.

    8. LHLiam Harrison31:48

       And even just picking up knocks now, the older I've got, it's harder to check off. I don't think I need to do any hard kick sparring now. Like I, I can play spar and I- I'll still get some eyes working as long as I've done some good boxing sparring, hard boxing sparring with the head guards on, um, with, uh, James France, who was one of our top fighters and he's a really good boxer. If I can hold my own with him, I know I'm ready to fight. W-

    9. JRJoe Rogan32:07

       What is the difference in the amount of damage you take with hard kick sparring versus hard boxing sparring?

    10. LHLiam Harrison32:12

        The thing is you're, you s- just the way, when you start going hard in sparring, especially with how competitive we all are at my gym 'cause lots of top level fighters there, we, they start going hard and the tireder he gets, so he gets around six, seven, you miss a kick, he can kick an elbow. You kick a knee-

    11. JRJoe Rogan32:25

        Mm-hmm.

    12. LHLiam Harrison32:25

        ... and do stupid shit, then you-

    13. JRJoe Rogan32:26

        Right.

    14. LHLiam Harrison32:27

        You've hurt your foot and then bang knees, you've clasped knees and stuff like that. When I were younger, I could just check them injuries off, didn't matter, I would spar again tomorrow. But the older I've got, I don't wanna even put myself in a position where I need to do that. I don't feel like I need to anymore anyway. I've worked out that place sparring, like not, like 50% sparring is just as good. You still get your eyes working.

    15. JRJoe Rogan32:44

        Yeah.

    16. LHLiam Harrison32:44

        You're still doing all the same things and just not getting hurt.

    17. JRJoe Rogan32:47

        Well, the Thais really have that down.

    18. LHLiam Harrison32:49

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan32:49

        It's so, it's such a wise thing that they learned, you know? And when you see guys like Saenchai-

    20. LHLiam Harrison32:55

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan32:55

        ... when he's sparring, it's like he's just slapping.

    22. LHLiam Harrison32:57

        But when I p- go to Thailand-

    23. JRJoe Rogan32:59

        He's touching.

    24. LHLiam Harrison32:59

        ... I train with him at the same gym and that's all, lead, as soon as I get there, he'll call me in the ring. No shin pads, you play spar.

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:05

        Yeah.

    26. LHLiam Harrison33:05

        He'll fucking humiliate me, but I learned so much in about f- three minutes off him and stuff like that. But he's also, they play to learn, don't they? They-

    27. JRJoe Rogan33:10

        Yeah.

    28. LHLiam Harrison33:10

        The English do that as well, the Cubans when they box.

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:12

        Yeah.

    30. LHLiam Harrison33:12

        They don't punch fuck out of each other either.
11. 53:57 – 57:19

    Running vs joints: low-impact options, sport-specific conditioning, and ruined knees

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:57

       Can't they fix your hip? Isn't... There's something they can do about it?

    2. LHLiam Harrison54:00

       Yeah.

    3. VSVinny Shoreman54:00

       It's, it's, it's a very, very slow process. So it's gonna take a while. But, uh, and I, and I don't think I'll ever be r- it's weird because I can't-... seemed to get it into me head how to run. Because I've, I've learnt to walk in such a different way. I, I can't-

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:13

       Because your one leg is shorter.

    5. VSVinny Shoreman54:14

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:14

       Yeah.

    7. VSVinny Shoreman54:14

       'Cause my long leg's shorter, yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:15

       You'd be probably-

    9. VSVinny Shoreman54:16

       Hop.

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:16

        ... better off doing something that's, like, low impact.

    11. VSVinny Shoreman54:19

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:19

        Have you seen that Zero Runner thing that I have out there?

    13. VSVinny Shoreman54:22

        No.

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:22

        It's very interesting. It's weird.

    15. VSVinny Shoreman54:24

        Mm.

    16. JRJoe Rogan54:24

        Like, you gotta learn the gait of it.

    17. VSVinny Shoreman54:26

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:26

        But once you learn the gait of it, it's like it mimics running, but there's no impact at all.

    19. VSVinny Shoreman54:31

        Right.

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:31

        It's w- it's r- 'cause it's real weird, 'cause most people, when they get on it, their legs just start swinging. And you're like, "This is stupid." Then I'm like, like I had to show my wife. I was like, "No, no, don't swing. Like, lift your legs up. Like, bounce like you're running." And then once you do that, you go, "Oh, okay." And then you get a swing of it, and then you can- Feel like you're gliding, so yeah.

    21. VSVinny Shoreman54:48

        Yeah. And you can run, but it's actually harder than just running.

    22. LHLiam Harrison54:51

        Oh.

    23. JRJoe Rogan54:52

        So it's like a d- it's like-

    24. VSVinny Shoreman54:54

        Have you got one here?

    25. JRJoe Rogan54:54

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    26. LHLiam Harrison54:56

        Oh, okay.

    27. JRJoe Rogan54:56

        It's, it's interesting. I've used it a few times, and I'm, I'm, you know, it's, it's kind of a torturous device.

    28. VSVinny Shoreman55:01

        You don't look, you don't look convinced. Is it-

    29. JRJoe Rogan55:03

        Um, I do, but I use everything. You know?

    30. VSVinny Shoreman55:05

        Okay.

Episode duration: 2:36:53