The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #81 with Dave Leduc
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:44
Meeting Dave Leduc and why Lethwei stands out as brutally unique
Joe welcomes Dave Leduc and immediately frames Lethwei as one of the most brutal combat sports on Earth. Dave and Joe riff on Dave’s Quebec roots and quickly steer into how an outsider became the face of a Myanmar national sport.
- •Joe introduces Lethwei’s reputation for brutality
- •Dave’s background as a Quebecois fighter living internationally
- •Early banter sets up the core question: how does Montreal produce a Lethwei champion?
- 0:44 – 1:58
From baseball and being kicked out at 17 to choosing a fighting life
Dave recounts a pivotal family conflict that led to him being kicked out of the house as a teenager. The hardship—couch surfing, cold weather, no money—becomes a catalyst for abandoning baseball and pursuing fighting with urgency.
- •Family conflict forces Dave out on his own at 17–18
- •Hardship as a driver of ambition and identity
- •Decision point: “forget baseball,” pursue combat sports
- 1:58 – 3:04
Early martial arts path: grappling first, then Sanda and striking
Dave explains that his first love was grappling, competing mostly no-gi and even organizing a local submission-only league in Quebec. He transitions into striking through a Sanda/JKD-influenced environment, building a style that later fits Lethwei’s chaos.
- •No-gi grappling focus and running a Submission Fight League (SFL)
- •Coach encourages striking due to reach and frame
- •Sanda background: throws, wide stance, spinning attacks
- 3:04 – 4:33
Headbutts in training and the debate: why did the UFC ban them?
The conversation pivots into headbutts—how Dave trains them on pads and why he believes techniques must be trained to become reflexive. Joe contrasts modern rules with early UFC examples like Mark Coleman and argues headbutts should be legal given elbows/knees are allowed.
- •Dave’s pad-work approach to headbutts and making them reflexive
- •Early UFC headbutts as a major weapon (Mark Coleman example)
- •Rule consistency debate: elbows and knees vs. headbutts
- 4:33 – 10:08
Canada/France rule oddities, then Thailand: chasing fights and getting underpaid
Dave describes how pro Muay Thai restrictions in Canada (and gear requirements in places like France) pushed him overseas. In Thailand he takes fights quickly—often without formal Muay Thai preparation—while learning the harsh economics of stadium circuits and gambling-driven pacing.
- •Pro Muay Thai restrictions: no elbows in some jurisdictions
- •First pro Muay Thai fight despite minimal Muay Thai-specific training
- •Thai stadium culture: slow first round for betting; foreigners disrupt it
- •Low pay and financial stress while fighting frequently
- 10:08 – 11:18
What Lethwei actually is: bare-knuckle, headbutts, takedowns, and KO-only outcomes
Joe asks for a clear rules explanation, and Dave lays out why Lethwei is uniquely permissive. The biggest shock: no point system—fights are essentially “KO to win,” and otherwise end in draws, which changes strategy and culture dramatically.
- •Bare-knuckle striking plus headbutts; takedowns and rough clinch rules
- •Grey-area violence: strikes on the way down, knee stomps in some contexts
- •Five rounds, KO-only to win; otherwise it’s a draw
- •Emphasis on action and stand-up over ground fighting
- 11:18 – 13:48
The ‘Prison Fight’ experience: foreigners vs. inmates for sentence reduction
Dave tells the story of Thailand’s sanctioned Prison Fight events inside maximum-security facilities. The premise is startling: inmates fight foreigners, and wins can reduce sentences—sometimes even resulting in release—adding a surreal intensity to the whole setting.
- •Maximum-security prison setting and atmosphere
- •Inmates fight foreigners; sentence reduction incentives
- •Documentary coverage and notable outcomes (inmate released after winning)
- •Rules: Muay Thai with gloves (pillowy 8oz)
- 13:48 – 15:38
Getting the Lethwei call: promoter connection and the ‘Tootoo’ matchup setup
Facing money pressure, Dave contacts the promoter and learns he’s now promoting Lethwei. Dave accepts a huge leap in competition—an undefeated champion—while the promoter exaggerates Dave’s record to secure the bout, essentially sending him in as an underdog expected to lose.
- •Financial stress triggers the career-defining phone call
- •Promoter offers a fight vs. undefeated Lethwei champ ‘Tootoo’
- •Record inflation to sell the fight and create a mismatch
- •Dave embraces the risk as a once-in-a-lifetime doorway into Myanmar
- 15:38 – 23:28
Winning over Myanmar: brutal debut, crowd reaction, and respecting rituals (Leh Kamun)
Dave describes his first Lethwei fight: dominant performance, early hostility from the crowd, and the turning point when he performs the traditional challenge gesture. By embracing the culture rather than imposing an outsider identity, he earns respect and flips the arena’s energy.
- •First Lethwei fight: controlling distance, elbows, and damage
- •Crowd initially hostile (bottles thrown) because he beat a local hero
- •Leh Kamun gesture explained and its military/cultural roots
- •Cultural respect as a competitive and promotional advantage
- 23:28 – 35:34
How Lethwei clinch/headbutt strategy changes everything (and the infamous injury timeout)
Dave breaks down tactical details: how headbutt defense/positioning reshapes clinch mechanics and forces tradeoffs in striking opportunities. Then they dive into Lethwei’s wildest rule artifact—an injury timeout that can revive a KO’d fighter—watching footage of corners biting ears and dragging fighters awake.
- •Headbutt prevention technique: hand placement to reduce cuts
- •Strategic tradeoff: sacrificing a limb to control head position
- •Traditional Lethwei injury timeout: KO revival window
- •Video reaction: revived fighter returns and wins; brain-safety concerns
- 35:34 – 37:19
The Htoo Htoo Min trilogy: adapting under pressure, winning the golden belt, and a televised wedding
Dave recounts fighting legend Htoo Htoo Min, including damage to his leg, tactical adaptation (teep to the leg), and the draw that forced a rematch. The stakes escalate: win the title and the promoter funds a Myanmar traditional wedding—turning the fight and marriage into a national television spectacle.
- •Htoo Htoo Min as a generational, culturally iconic opponent
- •In-fight adaptation: switching teep targets to neutralize catches/counters
- •Draws and fast rematch scheduling; immense national attention
- •Golden belt win tied to a televised Myanmar wedding event
- •Navigating local politics/identity while becoming an ambassador figure
- 37:19 – 1:06:25
Training like a Lethwei specialist: neck strength, pad-work innovation, and bare-knuckle hand conditioning
Joe and Dave get technical about how Dave developed more refined headbutt pad-work and why neck training is central to both power and safety. They compare methods (weights vs. Iron Neck), discuss disk safety, and then shift to building durable hands for bare-knuckle striking.
- •Inventing/refining headbutt pad drills and combo integration
- •Neck training rationale: stability, concussion mitigation, power transfer via legs
- •Debate: weighted neck work vs. Iron Neck rotational resistance
- •Hand conditioning: knuckle/fingertip/wrist push-ups, managing inflammation
- 1:06:25 – 1:58:10
Where Lethwei goes next: Fight Pass visibility, US debut plans, MMA offers, and broad life philosophy detours
They cover Lethwei’s growth (UFC Fight Pass distribution, plans for a US event) and Dave’s openness to MMA only under the right circumstances. The conversation then sprawls into modern obsession (eSports/video games), afterlife uncertainty, following passions, and Dave’s nomadic life choices (Myanmar–Dubai–Cyprus) while planning future camps and building an online academy.
- •Lethwei on UFC Fight Pass; planned US event (state legality discussion)
- •MMA interest: ego, opportunities (ONE/Bellator mentions) but focus on Lethwei legacy
- •Obsession as a tool for excellence (and its downsides via gaming/eSports talk)
- •Afterlife/psychedelics/‘we don’t know’ discussion and meaning-making
- •Living abroad: Dubai’s materialism vs. settling in Cyprus; training-camp logistics
- •Building media/education: online academy and YouTube instructional series
