JRE MMA Show #81 with Dave Leduc

1. 0:00 – 0:44

   Meeting Dave Leduc and why Lethwei stands out as brutally unique

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      3, 2, 1. What's up, Dave? How are you, brother?

   2. DLDave Leduc0:04

      And we're live, bitches.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Yes, indeed.

   4. DLDave Leduc0:06

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      (laughs) You wanted to say that, huh?

   6. DLDave Leduc0:07

      Yeah. I- I just thought about it.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Just playing on it?

   8. DLDave Leduc0:09

      No.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Uh, thanks for doing this, man. I appreciate it.

   10. DLDave Leduc0:11

       Thanks for having me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:12

       Dude, I've watched you fight a bunch of times online and, uh, Lethwei is probably one of the most brutal combat sports in the world.

   12. DLDave Leduc0:20

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       And it's so interesting watching a guy like you. Uh, uh, are you Que- Quebecois, is that what you said?

   14. DLDave Leduc0:26

       Quebecois. You're good.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Yeah, um, from-

   16. DLDave Leduc0:27

       How's your French?

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       It's not bad.

   18. DLDave Leduc0:29

       Okay.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       It's terrible.

   20. DLDave Leduc0:30

       (laughs) It doesn't matter.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       It's way worse than I- um, I don't know anything in French.

   22. DLDave Leduc0:33

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       But y- how do you, how do you go from Montreal to being the king of Lethwei?

   24. DLDave Leduc0:37

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, it's a crazy journey, man. And, uh, like, like in a way too, it was, uh, it wa- should we go there right away?

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Yeah, let's go there right away.

2. 0:44 – 1:58

   From baseball and being kicked out at 17 to choosing a fighting life

   1. DLDave Leduc0:44

      Yeah, basically, uh, when I was... I, I used to play baseball. I was a baseball... I was a pitcher in Pennsylvania. I was, like, doing a bunch of, uh, uh, like, university baseball, um, traveling team. And then I got into, uh, uh, like, a fight with my father. Uh, shout out to my father, uh, but-

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:59

      A fistfight with your father?

   3. DLDave Leduc1:00

      No. Th- i- it never went physical.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:01

      Oh.

   5. DLDave Leduc1:01

      But it was, like, going very hard and they said, like, my par- both my parents said, "Dave, please le- please leave." Like, the, "You're," like, "you're kicked out of the house." And he goes s-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:09

      Whoa. How old were you?

   7. DLDave Leduc1:10

      17, 18.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:11

      Wow.

   9. DLDave Leduc1:11

      So, like, I had no money and I was, like, uh, like, almost, like, in the str- it was minus four Fahrenheits, so f- for, for you guys, like, minus 20 degrees Celsius. It was like, uh, like... Okay, I call my friend, like, "Come pick me up." And I, I couch surfed for a few months, and, uh, finally got a place. Got my shit together, but then I had, like, a fire. You know, we didn't, we didn't speak for many years. Now, uh, we actually have a good relationship now. But, so then, like... And I believe that nothing good comes out of comfort, right? Like, hardship.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       Yes.

   11. DLDave Leduc1:37

       So I was, I was... I had a lot of, like, I said, "Fuck baseball" (laughs) . That's wh- like, I wanted to fight.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       Because of that?

   13. DLDave Leduc1:43

       Yeah, I guess.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       That's so crazy.

   15. DLDave Leduc1:45

       I told-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       So because of getting angry at your dad, that's what made you want to learn how to fight?

   17. DLDave Leduc1:49

       It's like... Yeah, resuming maybe like that a little bit.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Wow.

   19. DLDave Leduc1:52

       I hope he doesn't take it the wrong way. But, uh, yeah. Had, I had tr-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       Well, it worked out, so you shouldn't take it the wrong way. I mean, it all worked out well.

3. 1:58 – 3:04

   Early martial arts path: grappling first, then Sanda and striking

   1. DLDave Leduc1:58

      True. And then actually, funny enough, my first love was grappling. I was, uh, I did, um, like, I did a lot of competition, like no gi. I g- I won some, like, in gi, like, but, uh, it was mostly no gi. And then I, I actually had my league called the SFL. It was like a submission fight league. Once a month, I had guys f- uh, organize. I was org- I was on... I was not fighting, I was just organizing it. And, uh, got the guys fighting and, uh, submission only, not IBJJF, just s-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:21

      And where was this at?

   3. DLDave Leduc2:22

      In Quebec. In Quebec, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:23

      Oh.

   5. DLDave Leduc2:23

      In Mon- near Montreal. So then we're doing this, and then I said my coach, my sifu, Sifu Patrick. Again, shout out to my coach. Uh, he said... I said, "I never wanna do anything other than grappling." He said, "Well, you're tall and, you know, you're, you're a good reach. Maybe you should consider..." "No, I don't wanna do. I only wanna do, uh, no gi." He's like, "Okay." He lets me do my shit and then, uh, yeah, eventually I started, I started, uh, doing, like... I come from sanda background, like, uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:47

      Sanda.

   7. DLDave Leduc2:47

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:47

      Right. Which is a style of martial arts for people who don't know.

   9. DLDave Leduc2:49

      Yeah, so Chinese martial arts. All the army in China does that-

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. DLDave Leduc2:52

       ... pretty much, and it's pretty cool. So s- wide stance spinning attacks, you know-

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:55

       Mm-hmm.

   13. DLDave Leduc2:56

       ... and cool stuff. A lot of throws. I was actually with Cung Le in, uh, San Jose last week.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       No shit?

   15. DLDave Leduc3:00

       Yeah, we did some nice headbutt videos.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       Oh, wow.

   17. DLDave Leduc3:02

       We need to do one together after the t-

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       All right.

4. 3:04 – 4:33

   Headbutts in training and the debate: why did the UFC ban them?

   1. DLDave Leduc3:04

      (laughs) Have you done a headbutt before?

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:05

      Um, no, not really.

   3. DLDave Leduc3:07

      Okay.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:07

      I've never headbutted a person.

   5. DLDave Leduc3:08

      On the pads?

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:09

      Y- I fucked around, you know, and hit, headbutted the bag, but just joking.

   7. DLDave Leduc3:12

      Okay.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:12

      I've never, I've never... Like, I've seen your pad routines where you incorporate headbutts into the pads.

   9. DLDave Leduc3:17

      Yeah. It's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:18

       Yeah.

   11. DLDave Leduc3:18

       I feel like you fight like you train, so if you don't-

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:20

       Sure.

   13. DLDave Leduc3:20

       ... if you don't train it, how the hell are you gonna throw it in a fight?

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:22

       Sure.

   15. DLDave Leduc3:23

       It has to become reflex.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:23

       But d- do a lot of people headbutt pads? Or are you what-

   17. DLDave Leduc3:26

       I'm, I'm teaching them now. I wanna-

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:27

       Oh, okay. So you originated it?

   19. DLDave Leduc3:29

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       I've never seen anybody do it but you.

   21. DLDave Leduc3:31

       Okay.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:31

       I mean, I've seen people headbutt people in fights, particularly in the UFC, the early days.

   23. DLDave Leduc3:35

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       Like Mark Coleman, when he was the heavyweight champion, he was the godfather of ground and pound, big gigantic wrestler. And he would take guys down and get on top of them. It didn't matter if you were in the guard, he'd headbutt the fuck outta you.

   25. DLDave Leduc3:46

       Yeah, I saw that.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       I mean, when they took away his headbutts, you know, because it, they changed the rules, they took away fucking 20% of his game.

   27. DLDave Leduc3:54

       Okay.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:54

       20% of his game, he'd control you and bang, bang.

   29. DLDave Leduc3:57

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       Just slam his forehead into your nose. You know, you couldn't see, then he'd pound the shit outta you.
5. 4:33 – 10:08

   Canada/France rule oddities, then Thailand: chasing fights and getting underpaid

   1. DLDave Leduc4:33

      Okay, so now we were basically at the, uh, doing s- starting to do striking. So then I do a couple fight nights and I, I love it. Uh, I s- I started fighting, but then it's illegal in Canada. You can't do, like, full... Even Muay Thai is illegal, so I didn't try-

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:44

      Muay Thai's illegal in Canada?

   3. DLDave Leduc4:45

      Pro, pro Muay Thai. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:47

      What?

   5. DLDave Leduc4:47

      Yeah. No elbows. Yeah, it's... I'm a true Muay Thai-

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:49

      But how come the UFC is legal?

   7. DLDave Leduc4:51

      Tell me about it (laughs) .

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:51

      Oh my God. That's so crazy.

   9. DLDave Leduc4:53

      So you can't do, you can't do MMA, but you have to do headgear and shit for Muay Thai.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       Wow.

   11. DLDave Leduc4:57

       Even in France.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       Shin, shin pads?

   13. DLDave Leduc4:59

       I'm not sure, but there's no elbows guaranteed.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       No elbows. So amateur Muay Thai, no elbows.

   15. DLDave Leduc5:04

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       Well, that's not Muay Thai then.

   17. DLDave Leduc5:05

       Yeah, no, it's not.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       Oh, that's crazy.

   19. DLDave Leduc5:07

       Yeah. Even in France, I think Muay Thai, like, Thai fight, when you go there, they have headbo- elbow pads.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       Really?

   21. DLDave Leduc5:11

       Yep. With Saenchai was fighting with elbow pads last time.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:13

       What?

   23. DLDave Leduc5:14

       Yes, yes. In France.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:15

       No s- Saenchai with elbow pads is hilarious.

   25. DLDave Leduc5:17

       Mm-hmm. In France, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       Wow, that's crazy.

   27. DLDave Leduc5:19

       So, and then what else? And then basically, um, I, uh, I went to Thailand for the first time 'cause my friends were there. And it's just easier t- 'cause Myanmar was... Like, for those who don't know, it used to be called Burma.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       Mm-hmm.

   29. DLDave Leduc5:29

       And now it's Myanmar and it was super hard to get visas and, you know, a bunch of th- uh, stuff like that. So I go there, I do my first, uh, pro Muay Thai fight 'cause... And I was, I was, like, partying and I was like, "I wanna get a fight." So they give me a fight, I win.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:42

       How much training had you done? You did sanda and then what else?
6. 10:08 – 11:18

   What Lethwei actually is: bare-knuckle, headbutts, takedowns, and KO-only outcomes

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:08

      Explain to people the rules of Lethwei.

   2. DLDave Leduc10:10

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:10

      'Cause we keep talking about it.

   4. DLDave Leduc10:11

      Yes. True, so Lethwei-

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:12

      Headbutts.

   6. DLDave Leduc10:13

      Yes.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:13

      No gloves.

   8. DLDave Leduc10:14

      Takedowns allowed. So suplex to the spi- on the head, uh, elbows to the back of the head. They don't care.

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:19

      Right.

   10. DLDave Leduc10:20

       Uh, you know, takedowns allowed. So, uh-

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       Soccer kicks?

   12. DLDave Leduc10:23

       Soccer kicks? N- not r- I mean, yes, but you c-

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:24

       To the body, but-

   14. DLDave Leduc10:26

       You can hit-

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:26

       ... sort of.

   16. DLDave Leduc10:26

       ... on the, all on the way down.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:27

       On the way down. Yeah, you can kick him in the head on the way down.

   18. DLDave Leduc10:29

       You can, like, body lock, and on the way down you headbutt.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       (imitates whooshing)

   20. DLDave Leduc10:32

       And then you, you get, get back up. The referee doesn't care. Uh, a lot of times, it's a takedown-

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       Is that a rule, though? Is it legal? Or is it-

   22. DLDave Leduc10:37

       It's gray line.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:38

       Gray line.

   24. DLDave Leduc10:39

       A gray area.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:39

       Oh. (laughs)

   26. DLDave Leduc10:39

       So you can actually do a, uh, a takedown and then drop the knee, like knee stomp, and then it's okay.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:44

       Really?

   28. DLDave Leduc10:44

       Yeah. They, they say that basically you're supposed to help your brother up. So y- when you fall down, you help him up, and you st- you, you fight. So the mentality is like we fight for 15 minutes, and if we punch each other in the face, uh, face with h- elbows, headbutts, and everything, and le- let's see first who quits. That's the-

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:58

       Wow.

   30. DLDave Leduc10:59

       But then if you go f- on the floor, we get up, they want action packed, you know?
7. 11:18 – 13:48

   The ‘Prison Fight’ experience: foreigners vs. inmates for sentence reduction

   1. DLDave Leduc11:18

      So, okay, so just, uh, again, I, uh, I got mys- I watched a Vice documentary on Prison Fight.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:23

      (laughs)

   3. DLDave Leduc11:23

      Okay? Look at that. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:25

      Oh, that's hilarious.

   5. DLDave Leduc11:27

      Uh, so the Prison Fight thing, another, that's again for, it's for in Thailand. For those who don't know, it's, uh, sanctioned by the Thai Depart- Department of Correction. And, uh, they didn't do, I was on the last one ever in 2014. And, uh, basically it's inmates fighting foreigners, and if the inmate wins, the c- uh, the sentence is reduced.

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:44

      Whoa.

   7. DLDave Leduc11:45

      Yeah. Have you heard about this?

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:47

      No.

   9. DLDave Leduc11:47

      Okay, Prison Fight, yeah, I did that. And, uh, we were, uh, so basically we go in the maximum security prizi- outside of Bangkok, ma- maximum security prison.And, uh, it's like a movie, man. Like, they made a movie actually about it recently. I was on The Real Deal. (laughs) I was on The Real-

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       Wow.

   11. DLDave Leduc12:02

       Yeah. And, uh, I was with my Turkish friend. We go there, they take away our phones, we go to that big metal door, we go underneath. I have goosebumps talking about it. A- and then we go, we see 800 inmates. They're all, they're all there for either rape, gang rape, murder, tra- drug trafficking, and they're all-

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       And they can get their sentence reduced if they win a fight?

   13. DLDave Leduc12:19

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:20

       What if they win two fights?

   15. DLDave Leduc12:21

       One guy actually, it was on sh- it was on Showtime, they did a documentary on Showtime, and the g- actually won the, the, the finale. He won against an American and the, uh, he got released.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       A murderer?

   17. DLDave Leduc12:30

       He won, he won, he was, uh, he actually ... What I, what I heard, I'm ... Correct me if I'm wrong, but he went, uh, he was in a bar and somebody, like, talked about his girlfriend or touched his girlfriend. He went back, he took a knife and stabbed the guy in the neck and he got imprisoned for that, for murder basically.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       Then he got out for fighting well?

   19. DLDave Leduc12:46

       Fighting very well. Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Holy shit.

   21. DLDave Leduc12:48

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Don't go to that part of the world-

   23. DLDave Leduc12:50

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       ... y- with a s- with a squeamish stomach.

   25. DLDave Leduc12:53

       Fudge. So it was, uh, but actually those guys, they're, they do some mistakes, but they were fighting in Lumphini. They were f- they were, like, high level guys, you know.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:59

       Really?

   27. DLDave Leduc13:00

       Yeah. Maybe not, like, all champions, but they were, like, you know-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       They knew how to fight.

   29. DLDave Leduc13:03

       ... 100 fights and up, so.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Yeah. Wow.
8. 13:48 – 15:38

   Getting the Lethwei call: promoter connection and the ‘Tootoo’ matchup setup

   1. DLDave Leduc13:48

      ... -20 in Celsius. So I'm like, "How can I go back to Asia?" And, um, so I go to, um, I go to, uh, I go back, I fi- I save money, I go back and then ... Uh, I'm losing my thoughts. Basically, um, I c- uh, when I, when I get that situation with Irina, right, where we're like, we're, like, we're stressing for money, we're stressing for the future, I, uh, I called up the prison fight promoter. And I'm ... And, uh, at the time I said, "You have a fight for me? Like, I need to get money. I need this." You know. He said, "Well, I don't promote Muay Thai anymore. I promote Lethwei. You wanna get ... You wanna fight in Lethwei?" I'm like, "Yes. That's my ... You know, I've always wanted to do this." So he's like, "Well, if you want, I have this guy, it's Tootoo, T-O-O-T-O. He's a undefeated champ in Lethwei rules, 36 fights."

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:31

      His name is Tootoo?

   3. DLDave Leduc14:31

      Tootoo.

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:32

      Wow.

   5. DLDave Leduc14:32

      (laughs) That's his real name.

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:34

      He was undefeated in how many fights?

   7. DLDave Leduc14:35

      36 fights. Uh, that means it's all KO, right? Because traditional Muay, Lethwei, it's KO only to win. I forgot to say that. It's-

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:41

      Really?

   9. DLDave Leduc14:41

      There's no, there's no point system. It's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       No points?

   11. DLDave Leduc14:44

       No.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       How many rounds?

   13. DLDave Leduc14:45

       Five rounds.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       So what happens if you go five rounds and nobody-

   15. DLDave Leduc14:48

       You draw.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:48

       Whoa.

   17. DLDave Leduc14:48

       Bodoms.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:49

       Even if you're fucking the dude up?

   19. DLDave Leduc14:50

       That's what happened.

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:51

       Wow.

   21. DLDave Leduc14:52

       So, uh, yeah. So basically, uh, I go, I said, "I don't care, let's fight. I want it 'cause it's ... You just ... Uh, it's my dream." So he's like, "Well, how many fights you have?" "Well, I have 10 Muay Thai fights." "Oh, Muay Thai? Well, he's, you know, 50 fights in Lethwei and you have 10 fights in Muay Thai. Well, let me, let me do something." He lied on the record. He said I have 40 fights. Okay? And then, uh-

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       That's disgusting.

   23. DLDave Leduc15:14

       ... I go over, uh, I go over there, I'm like, "I don't care." Because my coach, Sifu Patrick, and I, we were always, uh, like, you know, eye gouging and, and, uh, like, practicing. That's the mentality of it, like, aggressively, like fish hooking in the clinch, uh, or s- or in the grappling.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Can you do that in Lethwei?

   25. DLDave Leduc15:28

       No.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:28

       No.

   27. DLDave Leduc15:29

       But, I mean, you could probably eye, uh, fish hook if ... Probably.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       Probably?

   29. DLDave Leduc15:33

       I mean, they don't care really.

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       Really?
9. 15:38 – 23:28

   Winning over Myanmar: brutal debut, crowd reaction, and respecting rituals (Leh Kamun)

   1. DLDave Leduc15:38

      So anyway, so I was always ready for that. I wanted that, that, uh, aggressive f- fights. So, uh, um, I go to the fight and some kind of energy comes in my body. I don't know, uh, I don't believe in that stuff, but, like, uh, I just disfigured him. Like, he didn't touch me much. I was using my, my push kick to the thighs, I was keeping my distance and then I went inside, I used my elbows and I ... Like, if you see the fight, it's, uh, he was, uh, he really puffed up. Like, it was pretty cool. And, uh, then that was my first fight and the crowd, like, they were throwing bottles at, (laughs) a little bit. But they're-

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:11

      Why were they throwing bottles? 'Cause-

   3. DLDave Leduc16:12

      They-

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      ... they're, he's their champion?

   5. DLDave Leduc16:14

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:14

      Yeah.

   7. DLDave Leduc16:14

      But then they quickly saw that I did my, my, uh, Leh Kamun, which is the, the ch- challenge gesture, uh, you know, very old challenge gesture. And they, uh, they, they loved it. So they started really-

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:26

      What is ... How does that work?

   9. DLDave Leduc16:27

      So basically, you, before the fight, you put your arm like this and you, you, you, you sp-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       So, explain to people that are just listening.

   11. DLDave Leduc16:32

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       You put one arm under your, under your armpit?

   13. DLDave Leduc16:34

       Yeah. So yeah, for those at home, so you put your left arm under your armpit and the other arm in the air and you, uh, you hit with your f- ... Your, um-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       Cupped hand?

   15. DLDave Leduc16:42

       ... cupped, cupped, cupped hand on the triangle shape of your elbow and you ... (slaps hands) Three times. That actually gives me more goosebumps before ... 'Cause that, that's how I triggered that to the fight, right? And this is a, is a, uh, very old gesture f- uh, from Myanmar, from the Burmese army back in the days when they were in the trenches and they were fighting enemies. Uh, you challenge with honor and courage your opponents and, uh, you do that, and that simulates the wing of an eagle.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       Oh.

   17. DLDave Leduc17:08

       You know, and you, like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       So they saw you do that and they get f- they got fired up-

   19. DLDave Leduc17:11

       Yeah, because-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       ... 'cause you understand their rituals.

   21. DLDave Leduc17:13

       Yes, because some of the times guys were coming from other disciplines, other country and they were putting their white crew, they were doing a bunch of other things, you know.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:19

       Oh, okay.

   23. DLDave Leduc17:19

       I embraced the culture.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:21

       Oh, okay.

   25. DLDave Leduc17:21

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   27. DLDave Leduc17:22

       So they liked it. They said, "Okay." Because at first they basically ... They wanted another tall white dude to get fucked by their guys and-

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       Sure. (laughs)

   29. DLDave Leduc17:28

       You know what I mean? Like, I was sent there to lose.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       Yeah.
10. 23:28 – 35:34

    How Lethwei clinch/headbutt strategy changes everything (and the infamous injury timeout)

    1. DLDave Leduc23:28

       So, yeah. So I get to... Yeah, no, actually we were going to... I, I crossed over to Lethwei. And then I, you know, I was giving, uh... To, just to tell you how much, like, I, I really wasn't prepared that much and it's kind of, uh, crazy how it happened. The, my translator, Burmese translator, before entering the ring, told me, "You know, if you wanna protect your head butt, don't forget to put your hand on, on his head," right? I'm like-

    2. JRJoe Rogan23:47

       Mm-hmm.

    3. DLDave Leduc23:47

       ... "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, you know, put your head, so if he strikes you, it's not gonna cut you." And that's what I teach in my seminars too and I'm like-

    4. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       Hmm.

    5. DLDave Leduc23:53

       ... "Wow." And I, that's like literally before they called my name. So I go in the fight.... and, uh, actually stop the headbutt from this.

    6. JRJoe Rogan24:00

       Oh.

    7. DLDave Leduc24:00

       Yeah. And like, t- people at home that, you know, let's say I try to... You know, if I would put my hand on my head in a clinch, right, and if you would stri- uh, on my forehead, and he would... He could still strike me in the jaw. If I put it on my jaw, he can still go to my temple. But the goal is to... And w- we can do it after, after a little bit, like on the... I would put it on your head-

    8. JRJoe Rogan24:17

       Mm-hmm.

    9. DLDave Leduc24:17

       ... so this... And if you strike me, it's gonna, it's gonna stun me, but not cut me.

    10. JRJoe Rogan24:22

        Right.

    11. DLDave Leduc24:22

        So that's the key.

    12. JRJoe Rogan24:22

        Yeah.

    13. DLDave Leduc24:23

        But then, again, why it's so different in Leth- W- why, why is it so different is because you lose a limb that you could use for striking.

    14. JRJoe Rogan24:29

        Mm-hmm.

    15. DLDave Leduc24:29

        You have to l- put it on the head of your opponent.

    16. JRJoe Rogan24:32

        Mm.

    17. DLDave Leduc24:32

        So you have like one limb left to hit or whatever.

    18. JRJoe Rogan24:35

        Right.

    19. DLDave Leduc24:35

        So, completely different clinch. And most people, when they clinch in Muay Thai or whatever, they clinch, they, they hold the biceps, right?

    20. JRJoe Rogan24:40

        Mm-hmm.

    21. DLDave Leduc24:40

        But then in the middle, there's a headbutt.

    22. JRJoe Rogan24:41

        Right.

    23. DLDave Leduc24:42

        The... It's really cool that, uh, there's still one martial art in the world that still, like will not budge, that will keep it raw like that.

    24. JRJoe Rogan24:49

        That's the... That... It- it's, it's, uh, an effective technique. And this has always been my problem with Glory, that Glory doesn't allow elbows.

    25. DLDave Leduc24:56

        Mm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan24:56

        I'm like, "Why not have full Muay Thai rules?"

    27. DLDave Leduc24:59

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan24:59

        Allow the clinch, allow knees to the body in the clinch, allow elbows, knees to the face, the plum. I mean, all those, those techniques are very valid. To be able to cross over an elbow in the clinch, I mean, th- this is... It's very skillful.

    29. DLDave Leduc25:11

        It's real-

    30. JRJoe Rogan25:12

        Yeah.
11. 35:34 – 37:19

    The Htoo Htoo Min trilogy: adapting under pressure, winning the golden belt, and a televised wedding

    1. DLDave Leduc35:34

       So Htoo Htoo Min now, uh, i- like, that, I have a big rivalry with him. Uh, we had a trilogy fight with ... Together.

    2. JRJoe Rogan35:41

       Yeah.

    3. DLDave Leduc35:41

       And, uh, he's one of the strongest guy I ever saw in my life. Like-

    4. JRJoe Rogan35:44

       Yeah.

    5. DLDave Leduc35:44

       ... he, he's, uh, like, he's almost, like, immune to, to ... I don't know, he has ... He's tough. So, uh, but think about it, like, I was watching ... When I, when I got into Lethwei, my coach showed me, showed me fights. I got in ... I sh- I saw s- his fights, right? And I was like, it's ... it seems so far away to go actually there. I was a little kid from Montreal, you know, from Gatineau actually.And then, uh, fast-forward a couple years later, I'm fighting him for the most anti- anticipated, uh, rematch in Lethwei history, right. Like, it was like the, it was everywhere in this, in the country, live on national TV. It was like 30 million people watching it, uh, like almost the whole country. It was insane. And then, uh-

    6. JRJoe Rogan36:21

       30 million people?

    7. DLDave Leduc36:22

       It's crazy. People in huts, and they have a satellite, and the people gather in the hu- in these villages. They have a, they don't have electricity-

    8. JRJoe Rogan36:28

       Oh.

    9. DLDave Leduc36:28

       ... but they have, like they don't have, uh, running bathrooms, but they have a- a TV with a satellite.

    10. JRJoe Rogan36:34

        (whistles)

    11. DLDave Leduc36:34

        And then we, uh, we fight in December last year. And, uh, that's ... Actually you showed my headbutt, uh, last time. That was, that was with him.

    12. JRJoe Rogan36:41

        Yeah. Oh, yeah?

    13. DLDave Leduc36:42

        When I ... You know the headbutt knocked out?

    14. JRJoe Rogan36:43

        Mm-hmm.

    15. DLDave Leduc36:43

        Like the knockdown that you showed?

    16. JRJoe Rogan36:45

        Yeah.

    17. DLDave Leduc36:45

        And you said, "Like this dude do it a lot."

    18. JRJoe Rogan36:47

        Yeah.

    19. DLDave Leduc36:47

        You know, 'cause people were saying, "Oh, headbutt doesn't work." Like, no, no, this is good. Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan36:50

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was during Fight Companion, yeah.

    21. DLDave Leduc36:52

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan36:52

        I was telling them, "No, no, no, no. You gotta see Dave."

    23. DLDave Leduc36:54

        You're good, man. You're, that was good.

    24. JRJoe Rogan36:56

        (laughs)

    25. DLDave Leduc36:56

        I appreciated that. But, uh, so yeah, that was the headbutt, my first headbutt knockdown like this, uh-

    26. JRJoe Rogan37:01

        Mm-hmm.

    27. DLDave Leduc37:01

        ... like this. Uh, it really, I use headbutt, I use the head to- to create distance. So let's say we're in the clinch, right, and you ... I- I would like put my, I would put my forehead, the hard part of my skull on the jaw, on the-

    28. JRJoe Rogan37:11

        Mm-hmm.

    29. DLDave Leduc37:11

        ... on the arytenoid, on the, on the sternoth- on the mastoid muscle here.

    30. JRJoe Rogan37:14

        Mm-hmm.
12. 37:19 – 1:06:25

    Training like a Lethwei specialist: neck strength, pad-work innovation, and bare-knuckle hand conditioning

    1. JRJoe Rogan37:19

       Now, the way you work the pads-

    2. DLDave Leduc37:21

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan37:21

       ... with headbutts, is that something that you invented?

    4. DLDave Leduc37:24

       I nev- I was never told, so I just, I just started, I wanted to get better, right? So I started doing it. Yeah, I pretty much invented it.

    5. JRJoe Rogan37:30

       Wow.

    6. DLDave Leduc37:31

       I mean, cannot put invented, but like, I started doing it, you know.

    7. JRJoe Rogan37:33

       But you, well you started actually doing pad work for headbutts though.

    8. DLDave Leduc37:37

       Yeah, in a-

    9. JRJoe Rogan37:37

       Yeah.

    10. DLDave Leduc37:37

        ... in a more refined way.'

    11. JRJoe Rogan37:38

        Mm-hmm.

    12. DLDave Leduc37:38

        'Cause they do that in Myanmar, a little bit of headbutts on the pad. But like I wanted to know more refined way, and following up with the-

    13. JRJoe Rogan37:43

        You want ... Oh, look at this.

    14. DLDave Leduc37:44

        (laughs)

    15. JRJoe Rogan37:44

        You do with the-

    16. DLDave Leduc37:45

        Don't show this one, that's-

    17. JRJoe Rogan37:46

        ... cord.

    18. DLDave Leduc37:46

        ... Neckflex, that's, uh-

    19. JRJoe Rogan37:47

        Oh, that's so ridiculous.

    20. DLDave Leduc37:48

        Oh it actually, that's, I actually have-

    21. JRJoe Rogan37:49

        What is Neckflex? Is that-

    22. DLDave Leduc37:51

        That's-

    23. JRJoe Rogan37:51

        ... something like the iron neck, like the same sort of a deal?

    24. DLDave Leduc37:53

        Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I don't know if you're ...

    25. JRJoe Rogan37:54

        Oh.

    26. DLDave Leduc37:55

        That's for you.

    27. JRJoe Rogan37:55

        Okay.

    28. DLDave Leduc37:56

        Look at that. This-

    29. JRJoe Rogan37:57

        So it's a chain for weights-

    30. DLDave Leduc37:59

        So this-

Episode duration: 1:58:10