JRE MMA Show #85 with Max Holloway

1. 0:00 – 1:14

   Post-fight check-in: dancing after losing the belt

   1. MHMax Holloway0:00

      ... you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Took yoga-

   3. MHMax Holloway0:02

      Nice.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      ... hung out with my dog, and now we're here. All right, we're live.

   5. MHMax Holloway0:05

      Nice.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      What's up, Max? How are you, brother? Good to see you.

   7. MHMax Holloway0:07

      I'm good. Yeah, how you doing?

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      I'm good.

   9. MHMax Holloway0:08

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:08

       Do-

   11. MHMax Holloway0:09

       Finally here. I've been-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:10

       Oh, yeah. (laughs)

   13. MHMax Holloway0:10

       I've asked you for about, I think, uh, what, 17? 17 fights straight. When am I getting on?

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       (laughs)

   15. MHMax Holloway0:18

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:18

       We tried to organize it a couple of times, but, hey, man, you live on an island in the middle of the ocean.

   17. MHMax Holloway0:23

       I know.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       It's, it's a little, it's a different thing, you know, logistically.

   19. MHMax Holloway0:26

       I know, I know. I know, I know, but, uh, we've, you finally made it happen.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Yes.

   21. MHMax Holloway0:31

       You the man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       We finally made it happen.

   23. MHMax Holloway0:32

       You the man. I can't wait.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       So how you doing, man? Everything all right?

   25. MHMax Holloway0:35

       Everything good. I feel great.

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       You walking good?

   27. MHMax Holloway0:37

       I'm wa- walking great.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah.

   29. MHMax Holloway0:38

       I'm walking great.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       You, you look totally fine.
2. 1:14 – 3:33

   Scoring controversy: leg kicks vs damage, and why decisions frustrate fighters

   1. MHMax Holloway1:14

      I, I, I heard, I saw, I got to watch the fight a little bit over, you know, and, uh, what, you know, talking about the fight, a lot of people, uh, actually about the press conference-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MHMax Holloway1:22

      ... when I said I thought I won, I think some people, I, uh, people was taking it, uh, taking it the wrong way. A lot of his fans were taking it the wrong way. It's like, when I was in there, in my mind, I thought I won because I, when you think about it, I, I thought I was landing more damaging shots to the head and body, you know.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:38

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MHMax Holloway1:38

      I knew leg kicks, he was landing here and there, but I didn't think it was too much until after I saw whatever happened, you know. But at, t- at the end of the day, you know, i- it's like, it's what I said, I just... My, my legs felt fine, I went to the after party, I danced, and, and if, if I put it in this way, you know, out of my, all my title fights, this is the least damage I took in a title fight, and I lost my damn belt, so... (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      (laughs) You mean, like, t- to the face and to the body.

   7. MHMax Holloway2:05

      Yeah, to the face and to the body.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      Yeah.

   9. MHMax Holloway2:06

      You know, and he hit me with a couple, some of it leg, I knew he was landing some leg kicks, and, and some, um, some was power and, but then a bunch of other ones, I, I thought so was like, you know, I didn't know that there's, it was landing that much, to that, to that extent. And, um, then again, this is, uh, this is not a street fight, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:23

       Right, right.

   11. MHMax Holloway2:23

       It's not a street fight. It's a, it's a, it's a game, and he out-pointed me in the game. So, you know, good for him.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       Yeah, it's, it's an interesting game when it comes to scoring, right? Because, like, what should be scored more, punches or leg kicks? Like, uh, you know, it's, it's hard. Like, leg kicks are damaging. They mean a lot. I mean, fights have s- been stopped on leg kicks.

   13. MHMax Holloway2:41

       Uh-huh.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       You know, but Barboza, I think, stopped two people-

   15. MHMax Holloway2:44

       Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, two people, I think, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:45

       ... with leg kicks. Yeah. Um, but it's just, uh, it's, I think the system sucks.

   17. MHMax Holloway2:50

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       The 10-point must system. It's boxing's system.

   19. MHMax Holloway2:52

       Yeah, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       It's not our system.

   21. MHMax Holloway2:53

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       We shouldn't have that system.

   23. MHMax Holloway2:55

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:56

       We should have a more comprehensive system that, that-

   25. MHMax Holloway2:58

       I think-

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:58

       ... recognizes everything.

   27. MHMax Holloway2:59

       And then sometimes it's weird too, you know, especially like, uh, not r- technically my fight, but, like, other fights. Like, people, you see people who stick and move nice and this and that, and just because the guy is walking forward, he's winning the fight.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       Right, right, right.

   29. MHMax Holloway3:10

       Like, and then, like, you see them get into, uh, uh, and you see people get into scuffles, and then one guy bounce back. It looks like he's retreating-

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:18

       Mm-hmm.
3. 3:33 – 8:18

   Judging reform: martial-artist judges, more judges, and using ex-fighters

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      I think there's a real problem with judges not even being martial artists.

   2. MHMax Holloway3:36

      That's why.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:37

      That's a giant problem.

   4. MHMax Holloway3:37

      That's why Burt Watson say, "Don't-"

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:39

      Yeah.

   6. MHMax Holloway3:39

      "... don't leave that shit to judges." (laughs) "Don't make me proud," man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:42

      Yeah, but that's easier said than done, I mean...

   8. MHMax Holloway3:43

      It is, especially when you're fighting the best guys in the world too, you know. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:46

      Yeah, you can't, you can't expose your... It's not smart.

   10. MHMax Holloway3:48

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       It's not a smart way to fight, you know?

   12. MHMax Holloway3:49

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       The way you're fighting is the best way to fight, but the, the judges should at least have some martial arts experience.

   14. MHMax Holloway3:57

       I agree.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       And I know there's a bunch of them-

   16. MHMax Holloway3:58

       I agree.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       ... that have never even fucking trained.

   18. MHMax Holloway4:00

       I, I, I-

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       They just took some courses.

   20. MHMax Holloway4:01

       I was talking to, uh, some people I was talking to, uh, that was behind the scenes. I was ta- talking to, uh, they, they came from the DC. It was the DC event, one of ours on y'all? And, uh, some of the commission there at the DC event was like, I heard, was, was crazy. (laughs) Like, some people were just not, like...

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       They didn't know anything?

   22. MHMax Holloway4:19

       Yeah, not supposed to be there. I was like, "What is going on?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:21

       (laughs)

   24. MHMax Holloway4:21

       And, like, uh, to put it in perspective for people out there, it's like, you know, like, this is all I do for a living.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:27

       Right.

   26. MHMax Holloway4:27

       This is all I do, so, like, to me, I gotta put the trust in someone that doesn't-

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:32

       Yeah.

   28. MHMax Holloway4:32

       ... know what they're doing when I'm over here sacrificing my time? It's just, it's kinda hard, you know. I'm not talking about my fight again. I'm just talking about other people, like, just in terms of our fights.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:39

       Yeah, any time there's a bad decision. Yeah.

   30. MHMax Holloway4:40

       You know, it just, it's just tough, you know.
4. 8:18 – 10:39

   Matchmaking realities: injuries, unpredictable schedules, and the near-Khabib fight

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:18

      That's a hard gig. It's a hard gig setting up fights. Well, MMA fights in particular, because guys get injured so much more than in boxing.

   2. MHMax Holloway8:25

      A- anything.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:25

      Yeah.

   4. MHMax Holloway8:26

      And, uh, that's one thing that, um, I like talking to people or telling people. They're like, "Oh, they're so different, so this and that," and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, "Guys, boxers, MLB, NBA, what, NFL, they had, they had their set schedule." They have a set schedule. Like, I can sit down, LeBron can sit down before the year, uh, right when, uh, they announce their first regular season, he know exactly where he is gonna be the whole year. Boxers do the same thing. They know exactly, "We're gonna fight this month and this month." They don't know the opponent's name, but after a fight, they already kinda know who they're fighting, you know? MMA fighters, they're like, "Don't you know what's going on?" I was like, "I have no clue."

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:04

      Right. Well, how about-

   6. MHMax Holloway9:05

      "I have no clue six-"

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:05

      ... when you almost fought Khabib-

   8. MHMax Holloway9:07

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:07

      ... for the title-

   10. MHMax Holloway9:08

       10 days.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       ... on super short notice.

   12. MHMax Holloway9:09

       Yeah, or six days, it was six days.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       How much did you weigh when you were trying to get down to 55 and they stopped you?

   14. MHMax Holloway9:14

       I, wha- when they stopped me?

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       What did you weigh when you started?

   16. MHMax Holloway9:17

       I wa- I was, uh, when we got the call, when I got there, when I checked in, I was already, uh, the day before weight check. I'll tell you what I was the day of the weight cut. I was 170.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:28

       170 the day of the weight cut.

   18. MHMax Holloway9:30

       The weight cut. And I, and I tell y- I'm not gonna tell you exact number I was before they stopped me, but I was, like, in reach. Like, I was right there, but-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:37

       Why did they stop you?

   20. MHMax Holloway9:38

       They came in the room. They looked at me. They said, they said, uh, "Yeah, you don't look good. Yeah, we're cutting it." (laughs) I was like, "What?"

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:45

       What?

   22. MHMax Holloway9:46

       I was like, "I feel good. Let's do it." You know, it was right there. And then, uh, that's just what they said, you know? And, and it is what it is.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:52

       They had a, they had a real problem with New York in the beginning-

   24. MHMax Holloway9:54

       I mean-

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       ... especially. There's a lot of people that just weren't prepared for MMA.

   26. MHMax Holloway9:57

       Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, like, I mean, the New York cards period don't have-

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:02

       Yeah.

   28. MHMax Holloway10:02

       ... a lot of luck at all.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       No. (laughs)

   30. MHMax Holloway10:03

       Every time you see Vu (laughs) Hen something happened. I, and I told-
5. 10:39 – 14:05

   Tony vs Khabib hype and the role of genetics (cardio & power)

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:39

      It's a great fight, though. I love the fight.

   2. MHMax Holloway10:40

      I can't wait. I can-

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:41

      I love the fight.

   4. MHMax Holloway10:41

      ... I'm excited. I'm excited.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:42

      Stylistically, I think he's the best guy that, that Khabib's ever faced, because he can fight off his back.

   6. MHMax Holloway10:48

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:48

      He's a guy that doesn't survive off his back. He attacks off his back.

   8. MHMax Holloway10:52

      He attack, and he's a guy who just ... He just, he throws a lot of weird things from weird places. Like, you're, it- it- it's just ha- it's hard.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:00

      Yeah.

   10. MHMax Holloway11:00

       Like, people don't understand it. Like, it's, it's very hard when you fight someone weird and awkward, even sparring, because you try to get something, and then he's just like, bang, he hits you with an elbow.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:09

       Yeah.

   12. MHMax Holloway11:09

       But his head is, like, by the ground. It's like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       (laughs)

   14. MHMax Holloway11:11

       ... "What are you doing, Tony?"

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:12

       (laughs)

   16. MHMax Holloway11:12

       You know? Like, "How did I get hit by an elbow? I thought your head is over here," you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:16

       He's the most unorthodox high level guy ever.

   18. MHMax Holloway11:19

       Yeah, he's good. He's real good.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       He's real good. At his, uh, his, his level though, 'cause I c- I consider him a world championship caliber fighter, and at-

   20. MHMax Holloway11:25

       For sure.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       ... his, and at his level, I don't know of anybody that's more unorthodox than him.

   22. MHMax Holloway11:29

       For sure.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:30

       And his-

   24. MHMax Holloway11:30

       T-

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:30

       ... fucking cardio, man. His cardio is crazy.

   26. MHMax Holloway11:33

       Awes- off the chain.

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       Off the charts.

   28. MHMax Holloway11:34

       Off the chain.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:34

       I don't, I've never seen anybody with cardio like that.

   30. MHMax Holloway11:36

       Yeah.
6. 14:05 – 18:17

   Mike Tyson, Ngannou, and heavyweight danger: freak power and late-fight chaos

   1. MHMax Holloway14:05

      Did you, did you not see that video they made of his last fight, that the soul came out?

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      Yes. (laughs)

   3. MHMax Holloway14:11

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:11

      But that's what it's like, man.

   5. MHMax Holloway14:13

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:13

      That's what it's like. When he hit Ortiz on the fucking forehead, man. He hit him on the forehead.

   7. MHMax Holloway14:17

      He didn't hit him in the chin. That's how you know you hit hard. It di- di- d- you just hit different.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:20

      Yeah. He's j- but he does it to everybody. When you look at his record, he's got 40 knockouts in 42 fights, one decision and one draw. 40 knockouts-

   9. MHMax Holloway14:32

      Wow.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:32

       ... and 42 fights.

   11. MHMax Holloway14:33

       Why?

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:33

       Fucking crazy.

   13. MHMax Holloway14:34

       Why? (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:34

       It's crazy.

   15. MHMax Holloway14:34

       And then when you look at him-

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:35

       It's crazy.

   17. MHMax Holloway14:35

       ... he's a, he's like a, like, he's huge at 200-

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       He's ripped.

   19. MHMax Holloway14:38

       ... but he's skinny. Yeah. You know, like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       Yeah, but he's very thin.

   21. MHMax Holloway14:39

       ... he, like, you would be like, "He's a skinny dude."

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:41

       Right.

   23. MHMax Holloway14:41

       You know? And-

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Like, if you looked at Anthony Joshua, like, but when he f-

   25. MHMax Holloway14:44

       ... you would think he would knockout people.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       Right. He would knockout-

   27. MHMax Holloway14:46

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       ... everybody. Especially before he fought Ruiz the first time.

   29. MHMax Holloway14:49

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:49

       He was super j- he got a little more lean-
7. 18:17 – 37:39

   Max’s mindset after losing: identity beyond the belt and rematch adjustments

   1. MHMax Holloway18:17

      It's li- Every... (laughs) After the fight, we were walking around, with me and my son the next day, on a, on Mon... Oh, not the next day. Oh, oh yeah, it is the next day, Sunday. (laughs) I'm walking into New York-New York, there's a Hawaiian. I love Hawaiians. I love my Hawaiians. They... Greatest fans in the world. She comes up to me and she rubs my back, and she's like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, boy," and blah, blah. I'm like, "For what?" She's like, "You lost your fight." I'm like, "Aunty, I'm alive. I didn't die."

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:46

      (laughs)

   3. MHMax Holloway18:46

      "It's okay." You know, "We'll go get the belt back," you know, "It's just a fight, it's one fight. We'll be back." But yeah, a lot of people talking to me like it's my funeral or something. I'm like, "Guys, I'm okay. I'll be back."

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:56

      (laughs)

   5. MHMax Holloway18:56

      "I didn't take no real damage. I'm just happy that I'm not injured and out for a long time, and uh, I can get back to doing what I love, and that's punching people in the face." So...

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:04

      (laughs)

   7. MHMax Holloway19:05

      At the end of the day, I'm- I'm happy, you know. I... Like, like I said, I di- I didn't need the belt to be a champion. I know I'm a champion. The belt was just to let people know that, "Look, I'm, I'm one of the greatest guys to ever do it," you know. And my plan is just to be one of the greatest of all time, and um, whoever's, whoever you guys think it is, let me know. I- I'll go knock on the front door right now and be like, "Hey, let's set something up."

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:26

      Yeah, well you, you just need to make some adjustments for a rematch. I mean-

   9. MHMax Holloway19:30

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       ... to, to... This, the whole thing was him attacking your legs.

   11. MHMax Holloway19:33

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:34

       That was... He was getting close, and it was a smart strategy.

   13. MHMax Holloway19:36

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:37

       It was real good.

   15. MHMax Holloway19:37

       Game of inches, you know.

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       Yeah.

   17. MHMax Holloway19:39

       He did what he, he did what he did, you know. Like I- like we said, it's not a street fort- it's not a street fight. He did the points.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       You-

   19. MHMax Holloway19:44

       He nice.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:45

       You switch better than anybody. You're, you're really good at switching while you're fighting. You switch stances. You switch orthodo-... But you were forced at certain times in the fight to fight southpaw because of the leg damage, right?

   21. MHMax Holloway19:57

       Uh-huh. I- not really because of the leg damage, because I just felt when I was going southpaw, uh, against him, I just felt more... Like, he was just, uh, he was waiting a lot more.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:07

       Mm-hmm.

   23. MHMax Holloway20:07

       Like as soon as I went regular, it was funny 'cause like I was like, uh, I could hear, I could hear, I could hear, uh, his teammate Bender, his coach. As soon as I go, I- I go southpaw, the- they're not really saying anything.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:18

       Hmm.

   25. MHMax Holloway20:18

       And as soon as I switch back to regular, I hear the word "Dragon! Dragon!" And dragon was leg kick. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:23

       (laughs)

   27. MHMax Holloway20:23

       I was like, "Oh, oh leg kick's coming."

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:25

       Like a Dragon Tails, like the-

   29. MHMax Holloway20:27

       Oh, this is good to know. Yeah, I don't know what the, what they was calling, but they were saying dragon and it was like a leg kick. So I could hear it in there and I was like, "Okay, well let's go southpaw and see what they start calling here." And they wasn't really calling anything. They was just like, "You need to punch now," or "You need to move now or attack."

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:39

       Hmm.
8. 37:39 – 43:01

   Weight cutting & hydration tests: fixing incentives and opening weight classes

   1. JRJoe Rogan37:39

      I've tried, man. I've tried to eliminate weight cutting. I've tried to... I've tried... I've t-... I've talked to these guys. I've talked to Ari. I've talked to Lorenzo. I said, "Let's get rid of weight cutting. Get rid of it. Do what ONE FC is doing. Use hydration tests. Make everybody fight their natural weight. Open up weight classes. Make a bunch more." Having two weight classes between 185 and 205 is fucking bananas.

   2. MHMax Holloway38:01

      Ne-

   3. JRJoe Rogan38:01

      You got a 20-pound jump.

   4. MHMax Holloway38:02

      Yeah, yeah. We... Yeah, we could've... Yeah, I think so. We need to open weight.

   5. JRJoe Rogan38:05

      Yeah.

   6. MHMax Holloway38:06

      And then even, like, um, uh, one of the wo-... Most weight things that I hate is, like, I don't understand why the champion and the challenger of the champion need to make 45 and then everybody else get the pound allowance.

   7. JRJoe Rogan38:20

      Yeah, what is that?

   8. MHMax Holloway38:20

      I'm like, "That's backwards." (laughs) Like-

   9. JRJoe Rogan38:22

      That's right.

   10. MHMax Holloway38:23

       ... the champion and the challenger should have the pound allowance and everybody else need to make the weight.

   11. JRJoe Rogan38:28

       Right, right.

   12. MHMax Holloway38:28

       Right?

   13. JRJoe Rogan38:29

       Right.

   14. MHMax Holloway38:29

       Am I not right? Or, or you just be like... And if you wanna give the champion more love, you just be like, "Look, champion needs to come in at 46. Uh, and the challenger come at 45." That's just how it should be. I don't know.

   15. JRJoe Rogan38:40

       Well, if you're gonna, if you're gonna cut all that weight, we know you're gonna fight for five rounds. Give him an extra pound.

   16. MHMax Holloway38:45

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan38:45

       But I f-... I feel like hydration tests are the way. I feel like-

   18. MHMax Holloway38:48

       Hydration tests is cool.

   19. JRJoe Rogan38:49

       ... fine.

   20. MHMax Holloway38:49

       I think it's cool. I know a couple guys that... in the ONE, uh, ONE FC and stuff, and they do that way.

   21. JRJoe Rogan38:53

       Yeah.

   22. MHMax Holloway38:53

       I think that's super dope.

   23. JRJoe Rogan38:54

       I bet you could feel better. I bet you could feel better.

   24. MHMax Holloway38:57

       Oh, yeah. Yeah, you just walk around the fight, but it's... But it's cra-... 'Cause when... If we do do that, you know, people are just gonna try and find a n-... a way to finesse it anyway.

   25. JRJoe Rogan39:05

       I wonder what they do in ONE FC to prevent that. Uh, I mean, apparently they haven't had an issue with that. Th- they test people. They make sure that you're not dehydrated.

   26. MHMax Holloway39:13

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan39:13

       You know?

   28. MHMax Holloway39:13

       So I don't know. I have no idea, but-

   29. JRJoe Rogan39:15

       They find out which way. They find which way in camp. That's what they should do. Just show up, like, one day. "Hey, Max, what's up? Hey, get on the scale, bro." He'd be like, "Oh, I just ate cake."

   30. MHMax Holloway39:25

       (laughs)
9. 43:01 – 1:00:02

   Grappling injuries and CTE concerns: why ‘training’ can be the most dangerous part

   1. JRJoe Rogan43:01

      That is crazy, right? There's no fix for that. Once you've been kicked out a few times-

   2. MHMax Holloway43:04

      No fix at all, 'cause your brain is just trying to protect yourself, you know? Like, even, like, I know people who get choked out, who got choked out to sleep.

   3. JRJoe Rogan43:10

      Oh, yeah.

   4. MHMax Holloway43:10

      And now you can choke them out e- like, easier, because the brain is just like... The brain's, the brain is like, "No, yeah."

   5. JRJoe Rogan43:16

      I've never seen that with chokes. Is that true?

   6. MHMax Holloway43:18

      Yeah, yeah. I saw, I, I just, I know a couple people.

   7. JRJoe Rogan43:20

      Wow. Damn. That's not good.

   8. MHMax Holloway43:22

      Heavy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan43:22

      Yeah, they say that chokes are... I used to think chokes were a free ride. I just think, "No big deal. He just got choked out." But now they're saying, "No, no, no, no, no." Like, chokes give you brain damage.

   10. MHMax Holloway43:31

       For sure.

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:32

       (laughs)

   12. MHMax Holloway43:33

       It's just, it's just... You're, it, there, you're, you're-

   13. JRJoe Rogan43:35

       (laughs)

   14. MHMax Holloway43:35

       ... forcing your body to do something that it doesn't-

   15. JRJoe Rogan43:38

       Yeah.

   16. MHMax Holloway43:38

       ... want to do.

   17. JRJoe Rogan43:38

       You're shutting your brain off.

   18. MHMax Holloway43:39

       That it's, that it's telling yourself, like, before... Look-

   19. JRJoe Rogan43:42

       Yeah.

   20. MHMax Holloway43:42

       ... I'm gonna turn everything off before you die.

   21. JRJoe Rogan43:44

       Yeah.

   22. MHMax Holloway43:45

       A- and this, this it 'cause it's, if you keep holding it when you're knocked out, you're gonna kill someone, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan43:49

       Yeah, yeah. You'll kill someone.

   24. MHMax Holloway43:50

       So that's, your, your body just be like, "Okay, look. I'm turning it off now, so let's just hope you recover."

   25. JRJoe Rogan43:56

       But they're showing, they're see- they're finding CTE in jujitsu players. They're finding it in, like-

   26. MHMax Holloway44:01

       Yeah, but that's-

   27. JRJoe Rogan44:01

       ... high level jujitsu guys.

   28. MHMax Holloway44:02

       I, I, I don't, I, I don't think that it's from choke exactly. Like, I hit my head-

   29. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       All the time.

   30. MHMax Holloway44:08

       ... I hit my head on the ju- uh, when I'm grappling and stuff, just as much as getting punched sometimes. Like, sometimes I don't even-

Episode duration: 2:05:39