EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,000 words- 0:00 – 0:44
Lovato’s title win sets the stage: “surreal” aftermath and the real story
- JRJoe Rogan
Three, two... All right. What's up? How are you, brother?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm doing great. It's great to be back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Great to see you, man.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Congratulations on winning the title.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Appreciate that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fantastic achievement. I mean, beating Gegard Mousasi, who's, you know, top flight, one of the best in the, in the sport for sure.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And to beat him and win the Bellator middleweight title, that's... Gotta make you feel happy.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It was surreal. It was something else. And (laughs) when you hear the story about everything, um, man, it, it takes it to another level.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well this is why you're here. Um, we're here to talk about that, um, and w- just... I guess you should probably just explain what's going on.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Well, um, I guess I'll, I'll just kind of take you through the, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 0:44 – 3:15
The MRI that changed everything: first brain scan requirement and a fight rescheduled
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... order of events here. Um, you know, uh, that was my 10th fight, fighting for the Bellator title, and, uh, in all my other nine fights previously it was never required for me to get a brain scan done, um, just due to the, to the different states that I was fighting in at the time, the commissions there didn't require it. Um, in the US it's California and New York, and then Europe, um, you know, requires a brain scan. We were originally scheduled to fight, um, in January at The Forum in California, um, the same event that just happened this past Saturday night. Um, and, uh, so we were gonna fight 2019 at The Forum in January, and that fight got postponed. Uh, Mousasi was injured. And we eventually got rescheduled to fight in June in London. Um, so I already had a brain scan scheduled, um, for December, um, to get approved for that fight in January. But, I got the news about the fight getting canceled, um, like the week of that scan, a couple of days before, so I canceled it. I said, "I don't need to go get that done now." Um, and, so fast-forward, you know, I basically stayed in camp the whole year, uh, training, you know, with that fight on my mind, all the way from November when I started the first camp for the fight in January, you know, into the new year, uh, waiting for the, the new date. Um, and it was March that, uh, that I got the word that we were gonna fight in June in London. Um, and so, you know, I was basically training all year and I just picked right back up into camp. And, um, fast-forward, um, on into the very beginning of May, um, I was t- you know, already a good month into, like, the serious camp. Um, and I was just getting ready to fly to Brazil, Curitiba, uh, to get into the, you know, the hardest phase of camp. Uh, I was gonna be there for three weeks. And I had to get my MRI done, you know, and I wanted to get it done before I went to Brazil, uh, just to check it off the list. Um, so this was actually, uh, the week I had, um... I had two good buddies of mine, um, Jake Mapes and Sam Alvey, uh,
- 3:15 – 5:06
Radiologist alarm: “there’s some stuff in here you need to see”
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
were in Oklahoma, uh, training with me, and, uh, we had a great week of training. Everything's going really, really well. And, um, and it's Thursday, and so I go get my brain scan done to get that done, um, before I went to Brazil. And I'm in there and, you know, we're... we, we get through the whole process and, uh, the machine is done. Uh, it's not, you know, operating anymore. But they haven't called me out of the room yet, and I could kinda just sense something was going on. Um, so finally they say, "Okay, come on out." And the radiologist, with really no, like, no, uh, candor or, or like, like an easy, soft way of saying it was like, "Dude, uh, have you seen your brain before? Um, there's some stuff in here you need to see." And he, you know, pulls me into the room and shows me on the, on the screen. He's like, pointing out these, uh, you know, look like little balls. Um, uh, obviously it looked like something was wrong. It didn't look like a normal scan, but I'm not... I don't know, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Balls like?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Like, shades of, of, um, you know, discoloration, like according to the, the scan itself. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you could see that, you know, it, it wasn't normal. Um, and he didn't even know what it was at the time. And he was like, "Uh, let me, let me look this over tonight," uh, and I had my paper, you know, to get signed off that everything looks clear and normal, and, you know, he was just like, you know... He asked me if I had any concussions, and, um, i- if I'd had any issues. And I said, "No, no." And he's like, "Well this doesn't look right and you shouldn't be doing what you're doing." I'm like-
- 5:06 – 8:57
Cavernoma explained—and then he flies to Brazil anyway
- JRJoe Rogan
Chill. (laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... "Okay, so are, are you gonna sign this paper?" And he's like, "No." And he's like, "Come back tomorrow and I'm gonna give you some more information." I say, "Okay." So I go back Friday, um, and he tells me that, you know, he did some research and he believes that I have a disease called cavernoma. Um, and, you know, he kind of hits me with that. Um, I had no idea what cavernoma was. Um, and, you know, he says, "Look, I'm not signing this paper. Um, you need to go see a specialist and get this looked at, but, uh, as far as I know, you should not fight. You know, you should not be fighting." And then, the next morning, I fly to Brazil, um, for my camp, you know, to, to go down there for the, the hard sparring and everything that I like to do. You know, stuff we talked about last time. And (laughs) so, I'm like, going... I'm, I'm, you know, i- in the airport, getting ready to go to Brazil for this portion of my camp, for this fight that is like, the biggest fight of my life, you know. I've already waited an extra six months for it. I've been training for it all year. And-Yeah, at this point I'm, like, just in shock of what is going on. My health, and, you know, uh, uh, so I'm, like, Googling everything that I can about cavernoma and trying to, to understand what it is. And basically, it's a disease where probably her- like, I probably got it from one of my parents. It's a, it's normally a hereditary disease, and your brain, uh, forms these extra blood vessels. Um, and these blood vessels grow and they can accumulate and sort of bundle up together into balls. Um, almost like, like, like weeds or vines, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
They, they, they wrap up together. And, um, these blood vessels are very prone to bleeding. Um, now they don't bleed so much in a, in a, in a instance where, you know, they could cause a hemorrhage. It's more like a slow, they, they use the term oozing effect, so it oozes blood out over time. Um, very little. Uh, little by little. And as they accumulate, you know, those balls, um, are very, you know, much more susceptible to, to bleeding. And, you know, reading about it, (laughs) wh- while I'm getting ready to go, you know, I'm flying to Brazil, I'm in the airport, I'm taking off. Um, you know, there's so many, like, extreme cases of this disease where people have to have multiple surgeries to get 'em removed, um, you know, seizures, vision issues, uh, com- people go into comas, and then of course worst, worst case is even death. And, you know, obviously Googling and, you know, not talking to a specialist and just kind of doing my own thing is not the best way to, (laughs) to get infor-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... information. And so I just have all these thoughts running in my head about, you know, what I'm dealing with and my health, and like, okay, uh, uh, now I'm going to, you know, uh, Brazil to, you know, train and spar, and, and I have this fight, and I'm, uh, right now I don't have anyone signing off on this paper, you know? Is this gonna happen? What's going on? Like, all these questions. And, um, so I get there and, you know, uh, at this point the only one that, that knows is, um, my girl, you know, and I'm confiding in her and I'm just, like, talking to her and, you know, she's shocked. Uh, I've never had any issues. I don't even really get headaches. I've never been knocked out. Um, you know, there's never been a, a time in my life where I thought, "Man, I should get my head looked at," you know?
- 8:57 – 12:34
Training under fear: hard sparring, no sleep, and the search for Brazilian specialists
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
"I think something could be wrong." You know? And so, um, you know, I'm talking with her and then I have my coach, Mauricio, uh, he's my head, um, MMA coach and my Muay Thai teacher. Um, and he goes with me down to, to Curitiba and we train there at his brother's academy, Andre Dida, uh, Dida's academy, Evoluição Thai. And, you know, we fly Saturday, arrive Sunday, start training Monday, and I'm just like, I'm trying to train this first day and I'm just like, "What am I doing?" You know? And I'm getting hit in the head and I'm like, "Man, am I slowly killing myself right here?" Like, you know, "What am I training for? At this point I'm not g- uh, I'm not approved. Like, what, what am I gonna do?" You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And, um, and so we, we talk it over and we're like, "Okay, obviously we need to get more opinions," you know? Um, and I'm down in Brazil for three weeks, um, basically all of May. Um, the fight was June 21st, um, or 23rd, something like that. And, um, and so I'm spending all of May there. Um, so I need to see some Brazilian doctors, some doctors down here in Curitiba. And so we just begin the process. Um, let's get a prescription.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you speak Portuguese?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm, I'm not 100% fluent, but I can get around. I can do pretty well on my own down there just from all the trips that I've done over the years. Um, so, you know, thankfully Mauricio, his brother Dida, um, they have so many connections down there, um, you know, uh, being who they are and the history that they have, um, you know, teaching martial arts. Y- y- you know, you get to know everybody, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And so they were able to make things happen quick for me. Um, uh, we saw a doctor, got a prescription for another MRI, get scheduled to get that MRI done, which happens on Friday, the end of my first week there. So I'm going that whole week training, you know, trying to stay positive, um, but I'm wondering, you know, what a- you know, uh, "What am I doing? What's going on?" You know what I mean? Like...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I, I can't, I can't begin to describe (laughs) the, the thoughts and emotions that were-
- JRJoe Rogan
I can't imagine. That, I mean, it'd be so distracting during sparring as well.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Oh, yes. Yes, and, you know, they go harder down there, um...
- JRJoe Rogan
To put it mildly.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, that place is known for, like, some of the most ruthless killers to ever come out of Brazil.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
100%. 100%.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that's, uh, shoot the box.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, I'm not sleeping well. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm emotional wreck, basically. I'm calling my girl, uh, over FaceTime, um, you know, multiple times a day. (laughs) We're, we're looking at each other on the screen, I'm crying. I'm confiding in Mauricio, and Sean Ribeiro was also there with me. Um, I had an Airbnb with Sean G. Um, so thankfully I wasn't on my own 24/7, uh, outside of the academy. Uh, Mauricio always stays with his family. And, um, you know, I'm just like, "Man." When Se- Sean G arrived, um, that Monday or Tuesday and I tell him what's going on, I'm just like, "Dude, I'm a mess right now." Like, uh, "I, I don't know." Uh, you know? I'd, I'm just so uncertain of, of my health and what's going on, and...
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And, uh, you know, eh, like, I-... man, I, I, I just can't put it into words.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 12:34 – 16:10
A week of ‘no’: doctors advise against fighting (and even warn about chokes)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
You know? But I'm trying to stay positive. I'm trying to stay positive. And we get through that first week, get the MRI, the new MRI, down there in Brazil. Um, so then we have, you know, the Brazilian MRI to take to Brazilian doctors. And so, then the second week, we start seeing neurologists and, um, you know, specialists to get their opinion and, um, and see what they have to say. And that was the hardest week ever because, um, multiple doctors were all saying no. Um, you know, when you look at the scan, right off the bat, it just like, it- it- it doesn't look good, you know? And when you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you have a picture of it?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Uh, man, actually I don't have, sorry, I don't have one with me right now. Um, but, uh, you know, you just see these gray, like, little shades of circles, like and they- they-
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of them?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Well, I have multiple, and most of them are very small, um, like popcorn size. And, you know, those aren't that dangerous, at least yet. But there is one accumulation on the back side of my, the right side of my head, um, you know, back here, and that has built up and, uh, and it looks, it looks big. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like how big?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um probably-
- JRJoe Rogan
A fist?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... probably, uh, like, somewhere between a, like a baseball size, like golf-
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... golf ball to baseball. Um, in between there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, it's, it's pretty big. Um, but it's on the very outer rim. Um, so, it's not like in the middle of my brain. It's on the outside, you know? So if you were to go right through my head, it could be right there, you know? You could essentially pull it out without having to go through too much stuff. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that something that might actually have to happen?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No, not a- not now, not now. Um, I'll fast-forward, you know, uh, to the doctors I end up seeing here in the States who clarify a lot of this. But, um, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
So, so the doctors in Brazil all said the same thing?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Well, they're kind of just, I mean, you know, fighting already isn't good for your brain, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Getting hit in the head isn't good for your brain, and I think just looking at it when you see it, and then you know that I'm gonna get hit in the head, and when I do, you're, you're automatically gonna be like, uh, "Hey, you know, there's already this extra bit of, of danger that we're putting in to a dangerous situation. Let's not, let's not play, let's not roll the dice, you know? Let's not play that game." Um, and so we were getting multiple doctors, um, saying no, you know, and, um, even one was like, (sighs) you know, they said that jujitsu could be dangerous, that me getting my blood cut off like in a choke, um, you know, cutting off the circulation to my brain, that could be dangerous. And so this week, I am literally not sleeping at all. I am crying multiple times a day, and I'm just like, "Man, what am I doing? I'm going into this sparring, you know, and I'm training and
- 16:10 – 21:55
Hamstring disaster: severe strain during sparring and the camp collapses
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm not, I'm not gonna get approved. I'm not gonna fight." You know? And this has already been like a six, seven month training camp at this point, you know? Um, and it's for the belt, it's my life's work, it's everything for me, you know? So I was just crushed day in, day out, trying to get through, and on Thursday of that week, I'm doing MMA sparring and, you know, I kinda had it coming. I- I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have been going as hard as what I'd been going, but I was like trying to, you know, stay positive and stay ready, like, "What if? I need to, I need to be ready for this fight. You know, it's Mousasi. Like, I gotta be at my best." And in reality, I was just training, uh, like garbage. I was, I was having my worst training camp, uh, my worst fight camp, um, you know, because of everything. And on this day, I'm in my third round of MMA sparring and I, I strain my hamstring bad. Um, I go for like a double leg, and the guy has a judo background. He over-hooked, like whizzers me, and goes for like a uchi mata haraokoshi type of throw. I'm wearing wrestling shoes. I try to drop my hips, you know, so he doesn't elevate me, and my legs, my knees go straight and my foot gets stuck in the floor with the wrestling shoe. And my hamstring just snapped. Pop. You know, like a loud, like pop, pop, pop. And I just scream and I let go and I, you know, I get thrown down and I'm just like, "Ah." And I, you know, he- he knew something was wrong and we stopped right there, and my leg is just throbbing. And I tried to get up, I couldn't get up. So I had to, like, walk on my hands, scoot off the mat. I got carried out of the academy that day, could not walk, and I'm sitting down on the edge of the mat and I'm, I'm just like, I'm, I burst into tears, and I- I look to, I look up to Matisse and I'm like, "Man, it's not gonna happen." Like, "There is no way," you know? All this is going on, I'm not approved, I'm training horrible, my- I can't walk now, you know? And so, you know, that was the end of week two. All nos. We have one more doctor to see, um, who's like-... the professor of many of the doctors that I already saw. He is very highly regarded, one of the best doctors in the south of Brazil. Uh, neuro specialist, neurosurgeon. Um, we were so lucky to get in to see him, and, you know, 'cause he's booked up, booked up, booked up. But we managed an appointment time for Monday of the third week, Monday night. So, you know, I'm like, I've basically given up. I can't walk. Uh, I'm at home that whole weekend, and Xangji, he, uh, he had seminars on the weekend. You know, he came down there to support me at camp, but on the weekends he was going off to teach seminars in different areas of Brazil. And so I'm laid up in this Airbnb all weekend, and I'm like just FaceTiming my girl, and I'm like, you know, "Babe, you're like (sighs) I don't think this is happening. I can't believe I've come this far, you know, to the title shot, this much training, you know, for the camp." Like, going from November of 2018 into the end of May of 2019, that was my... That was it, was just this fight with Mousasi. And, um, and I, you know... (laughs) It took everything for me. Like this sounds funny, but the, the house, the Airbnb, the, the host, you know, she's like a great host. She left so many chocolates (laughs) and all this food in the house, like sweets, and I just wanted to pig out and eat all these chocolates, you know. Uh, I kept telling Xangji, "Bro, you gotta eat these things. Like, I, I, I can't look at these. I'm so, I'm such an emotional wreck right now," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And I'm in, I'm in the, the spot all weekend by myself, and I'm ready to give up. I'm like, "I'm gonna go eat churrascaria," you know what I mean? And eat all these chocolates and just like... You know, 'cause I have to diet very strict to make 185.
- JRJoe Rogan
What would you walk around at?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Around 210 to 215 is my normal weight, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's insane. Big cut.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, so I mean, that weight is kind of normal. Like most guys at 185 or around 210, but I'm already tall. I'm already naturally pretty lean. So I have to be very strict on my diet, um, to, to get that low. And I, uh, it took everything for me to not just pig out and just like totally give in. But, you know, uh, Mauricio was just like, "Hey, we have one more doctor, one more doctor." The whole weekend all I did was just put CBD cream on my leg. Uh, Resilience CBD, shout out to them, my sponsor, um, and I was using the MARQ Pro on my, on my leg, um, to-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a MARQ Pro?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It's like, uh, similar to like a TENS unit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... but it has different frequencies and you can go really deep in there and so I'm just like, "Okay, let me just try to recover this thing as much as I can." I couldn't train, couldn't do anything. I was basically stuck at home. Um, and that's all I did, and I just said, "Okay, Monday night, that's it. If he says no, it's done." And at this point I hadn't told anything to any... I, I, I let my manager Ed know, but we hadn't said anything to anybody else. Um, literally the only ones that knew were my girl, Xangji, Mauricio, and Ed. And
- 21:55 – 25:27
The turning point: Brazilian neurospecialist stays calm and clears him to fight
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
so we go see this doctor Monday night, and man, right off the bat he kind of captivated us because he was the first one to be just chill and just like, "Okay, what's going on? What brings you here?" Didn't look at any pictures, didn't, you know, didn't rush it. And I tell him, "Uh, yeah, you know, uh, I got my scans. It looks like I have cavernoma," da-da-da-da. He said, "Okay, let me see your scans," and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, this is, this is, uh, cavernoma for sure. Um, how do you feel?" The first one to ask me, "How do you feel?" And I said, "Well, uh, you know, um, this is all a huge shock. I've never had any problems. Uh, I feel great. I'm fine, you know? I, you know, I don't even get headaches." And, um, he's like, "Okay, um," you know, uh, he talks with me and he's like, "Let's go do an evaluation." We do an evaluation and do some tests. Everything's norm. Like, just simple, like, you know, standing on one leg and all that kind of stuff. Um, you know, and everything's fine, and so we s- we go back to the office, we sit down, he's like, "Let me just see what I can find, but I guarantee I'm not gonna find anything that says head impact or trauma is gonna increase the risk of your caver- cavernoma bleeding." And so he starts looking up, you know, journals and, and, uh, you know, studies, uh, all the things that doctors have access to, and he, he literally finds nothing. Um, you know, there is no studies that say that getting hit in your head is gonna make your cavernoma worse or, or cause you to bleed and, and something's gonna happen. He's like, "Look, you can bleed, you know, you can be oozing blood at any point in time, uh, little by little, um, and it could become an issue at some point in time. Um, but there is no treatment, there is no... We're not gonna do surgery. Like, there's nothing that's gonna happen until you have symptoms, until you show signs. And because I can't find any studies that say getting hit in the head is gonna make it worse, and because you are, uh, you know, a normal, like, healthy functioning person at this point, I think it's fine for you to fight. You should continue doing what you do until it becomes a problem, and if it does become a problem, we'll go in there and we'll take it out, the big, the big mass. Um, and you know, then we'll, we'll move forward." Um, and so I'm just like...... uh, you know, I started getting emotional already and I'm kind of like, "Wow, are y- so, you'll write a letter saying this? You'll, you'll, you'll support me?" And he's like, "Yeah, sure, sure. No problem." Super calm guy. Just... a- and he was the oldest doctor we had spoken to as well, um, most experienced. And so, we get this letter. Man, we walk out of that office, uh, me and Mauricio, and (laughs) as soon as we, we w- leave the door and we get to the elevator, man, I just, (laughs) I just, like, burst into tears. I just, I can't believe that there's some hope. Like, this, this can still happen. And me and Mauricio embrace, and just, we both cry. I'm like, "Oh my God, we got the letter, we got the letter." So, I, uh, I send the letter to Ed
- 25:27 – 32:47
Approval limbo and compromised camp: boxing-only training and a last-minute green light
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
and we begin the process of trying to get approved. We get everything into Bellator, let them know they got the scans. Um, they send it over to the Europe, uh, Commission. They use an organization called SAFE MMA. Um, and, you know, we kind of like... we're happy, we're positive, but at the same time, I'm still not approved. It's still not on, you know? But, eh, the letter is like, that was the missing piece. That was what we needed to be able to move forward. So, I finish that last week, um, unable to really move. (laughs) Uh, you know, I can't wrestle, I can't kick, and my last week in Brazil, you know, uh, I'm literally just hitting mitts (laughs) like this. And I'm like, "Okay." Trying to stay positive. I still have like a month. Let's get this healed. Let's just keep sweating.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you get an MRI on the hamstring?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No, I didn't get an MRI on the hamstring. Um, it, uh, it didn't have any discoloration, so it wasn't a, a tear. Um, it was like a severe strain.
- JRJoe Rogan
But with the popping?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It, it didn't turn black and blue, and so without that colora- discoloration, I didn't... I almost didn't even wanna know. I was just like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you know, like...
- JRJoe Rogan
When did it start feeling better?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It didn't, really. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I, I actually still feel it now. Uh, it... yeah. Um, it was a situation the whole way. Um, but I could stand. (laughs) So, I could stand and all I'm doing is boxing now at this point because I can't throw kicks and I can't change levels to, to do takedowns. Um, and so, that was a whole nother thing because, you know, as I'm waiting to, to hear back on if I'm gonna get approved, I'm only punching mitts like I might as well be doing like a cardio kick- kickboxing class, you know? Without kicks. And that was the last thing that I wanna do with Mousasi, is just go in there and box, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
That's not what I do, right? So, (sighs) the, the hardships and frustrations were just continued, um, as I'm dealing with my hamstring. But at least we had some, some hope. Um, so, I finish that week, fly home, um, and now I'm finishing, like, my last couple weeks of camp at home in Oklahoma. Shaanji comes to Oklahoma. You know, Mauricio's there, and, um, I'm trying to put together some great training. One of my best training partners from Curitiba, his name is Chris, Cristiano, he came to Oklahoma as well. Um, and, you know, everyone's aware of the situation as far as my coaches, my team. I did not tell my parents. Um, I, I didn't want anyone to know. I didn't want it to get out. Um, and so I was just dealing with it with them, you know? And, um, and so we send everything in, um, w- and we're waiting, we're waiting. W- the, this guy, his name is Yanni, he's on the, the Commission with SAFE MMA, he reaches out to me like after the first week, and he said, "Hey, we need to talk." And so I give him a call and, uh, and he's like, "We, we got the letter. We're looking at your scans. We've actually created a panel of doctors to talk about this, um, and at this point it's 50/50." You know? "I just want you to know, we're, we're n- unsure if we're gonna approve. Um, and I just want you to hear, you know, I just wanted to touch base with you, wanted you to hear from me. We see everything, but you have to understand, we're, we're still not sure, so bear with us." I'm like, "Okay." Try to get through the next week. Um, ha- I had some decent days with my hamstring, um, where I could shoot a little bit and work some takedowns, but, um, if I had a good day, the next day I had to take it real light because it was just... it was so tight, so tight, so tender. Um, well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you get it massaged at all?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Oh, yeah. I was doing everything, everything possible. I mean, getting it worked on, um, doing hot/cold. Like, you know, I'm, I'm pretty... like, a- a- anything out there (laughs) that, that is for recovery I have probably at my house, you know? Um, I am big on really taking care of my body, so I was just trying to be as smart as I could and just get through it. And, you know, we come to this point now where, uh, the fight is two weeks away, and I don't know if it's on or not. Um, you know, and I'm just trying to put together as good of training as I can, stay as positive as I can, but at the same time, I'm just like, "Man..."... I need the yes, you know? I need to be able to, to focus.
- JRJoe Rogan
How were you staying conditioned when you, you barely can use your leg?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Man, it was, it was really hard. Um, I, I was heavier. I was walking around heavier than what I normally wa- would, um, for, for my fights, you know. By this time, I'm normally below 205, um, in the 200 to 205 range. That's where I like to get to just off pure diet and off training, and I was still 210 to 212. Um, you know, it, it was hard. Like, I, I couldn't, I, I could box, you know, and I could box hard and I could spar boxing, but without wrestling, I, I didn't feel like I was conditioned the way-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... I wanted to be. Um, I couldn't sprint. I could ride the bike. Um, the bike didn't put too much pressure, but I couldn't go all out the way I would like to.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like an Airdyne?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Airdyne. Um, everything was not the way it would normally be done. Now, you know, you're never 100%. You're always dealing with something, you know. I've, I've had a broken nose before, cuts, rib things. Like, there's always something, you know. Um, but, uh, but it was, it was the stress of both and, and the un- uncertainty on if we would get to fight at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
That was really hard. And for sure, that's why I got hurt, you know. That's 100% why I got hurt. Um, but anyways, um, finally, on, like, the last day that they could give me the answer, they gave me the answer. And I got the email and it said, "We've approved you. You are approved to fight," two weeks before the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I held off on, you know, I'm, I'm flying my family there, you know what I mean? I have all my, my, like, there's the corner coach, but then I have a couple other coaches that I was, you know, gonna fly out there, and I was waiting to purchase these tickets and, you know, I had some other guys like, "Hey, where are you staying? What's going on?" Like, uh, "I'm ready." And I'm like, "Hey, don't book anything just yet. Don't book any-" 'Cause I don't want them to buy tickets to London-
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... and, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 32:47 – 38:04
London week: hamstring re-injury, emotional breakdown, and team support
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... I'm not fighting. And I'm trying to, like, be cool and not give anyone too, you know, uh, too much an idea of what's going on, and stay positive, stay confident and everything. Finally, we got the green light, and I'm literally flying a few days later to London. Uh, uh, we left on Tuesday, uh, and arrived there Wednesday. I got there, like, 10 days before, so I have one weekend before the weekend of the fight. Um, and, uh, you know, at this point, it was like, okay, once we got that yes, I mean, we celebrated. It was like, you know, that's all I wanted. I mean, I had already fought so hard just to be able to get to this fight, you know. Um, and we, you know, we, we go to London and my leg starts doing a little better, and I'm like, you know, starting to just feel it, and like, "Okay, this is it, you know. Everything's coming together. We're gonna, we're gonna finish things on a, on a good note." And Friday, the week before the fight, I'm at Rogerson Academy in London, Roger Gracie, um, he opened up his doors, let us work in there. And, um, and I'm feeling good and I overdo it and I feel my hamstring go again. It wasn't a full pop, but it was like that stretch where it catches it and it just like, uh, and it's just like this pain rush through, and I'm like, "Oh, no, I did it again," you know. I could feel it tighten up and lock and I had to stop training that day, and this is a week before the fight now. And I'm right back to that, like, I can't, I can't change levels, I can't kick, and I'm just like, you know, once again an emotional wreck. Um, and my friend, Cameron Shane, who's a mobility yoga, um, guru, he's just, uh, an amazing guy. He, uh, you know, being that I felt the way I did, I don't wanna go back to Rogerson try to do anything because I didn't want people to see me. And he has these, uh, you know, yoga connections all throughout the world, and we found a yoga studio where my last few days we could go there and try to do whatever we could where no one could see, you know, as far as, like, other jiu-jitsu guys or MMA guys. Um, and, um, and man, the Sunday before the fight, we, we go into this yoga studio and, uh, we're trying to get a workout together, and I'm just like, man, I, I break down and I just start crying. I'm like, "Guys," 'cause I'm literally, you know, hitting mitts like this again. I'm right back to that. Monees was just like, "Just, just punch, just, just to lose the weight, you know." I'm like, "Man, I need to wrestle. I need to feel my takedowns. I need to feel my whole game coming together." And I just break down, and all the guys come around me, you know. Uh, and they just, man, they, they consoled me in such a, a special way. And, I mean, we just cut it that day. Like, there was no more training, but, you know, I, I can't, I can't begin to give a- as much gratitude and, and describe, like, how much my team was there for me when I needed them because, you know, uh, I, I, I was, I was not in a good state of mind. I was not in a good place. Um, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
I can imagine. You're six days out-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in London, and you literally can't use your leg.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Exactly. Exactly. Um, and, you know, they just, uh, like, the, the love and the inspiration and everything that they put into me, um, I mean, we, we all fought that fight together. We all fought that fight together.And, you know, we left that day, had a couple more days before we check into the Bellator Hotel. The Tuesday... Wednesday is when we go to the Bellator Hotel. Tuesday, I was able to put together a good day of training. Like-
- NANarrator
So it loosened up.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... the... It loosened back up. It wasn't, it w- like I said, it wasn't a full, as bad as the first one. Um, it just hit me for a second, but I think, like, you know, um, those moments, um, you know, I needed that. I needed to, to combine our energies, you know, because look how that fight ended up going, you know?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
You know? Uh, I felt like, like, that, that fight before the fight was to prep me for the fight, you know?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, and, um, you know, going there, obviously I'm a big underdog, you know. The... It's in London. Mousasi has so much history there, he's from Amsterdam. Um, you know, uh, uh, I don't know if any- anyone out there saw the video that Bellator put out afterwards where I said, like, you know, "We did it." And, and you could see how emotional I was. This is why, you know?
- NANarrator
Right.
- 38:04 – 45:52
Fight-night mindset and meaning: Napoleon Hill quotes, family walkout, and fifth-round heart
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, and fast-forward to when we're backs- backstage, um, you know, getting ready to go out there, um, I always take, m- uh, my favorite book, Think and Grow Rich from Napoleon Hill. I always take that.
- NANarrator
Why is that?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It's just a, a powerful book for my life. Um, I discovered it in 2000... the end of 2007. Um, and it's just such an inspirational book, um, and really kind of like was the, sort of the, the Bible for self-help books and, um, all the other, you know, people that kind of came from that, like Tony Robbins and things like that. Like, you know, the, the, the motivating, you know, like The Secret, you know, all those sort of things. Um, Think and Grow Rich was, like, the first.
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And, um, and anyways there's so many quotes in there, um, and things that just have stuck with me throughout the years, and I love to read certain chapters and, and portions of it when I'm backstage getting ready to fight, um, and I have, like, highlighted sentences and notes in it and stuff. And I'm backstage and I open, I open the book, and I hadn't opened it, uh, up to this point on this trip. Like, i- it was just with me, I put it in my bag and, you know, I got a couple of hours before we go out to fight, and I always open it up. And, uh, as soon as I open it, I... It's on the... You know, the flap is in- inside in a chapter already, um, in the last place I looked at it or whatever. And the first thing I see is a highlighted, highlighted, uh, portion that says, "Every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage." That was the first thing that I saw. And it hit me right there. It was like, everything that I went through in this camp to get to this fight, you know, that is gonna be my advantage. That is gonna be what carries me through this fight. That, that's my power. I know what I'm here for.
- NANarrator
That's a great quote.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It's the best. You know, "Every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage." Another one of my favorites from Napoleon Hill that I've used on T-shirts and inside a gi before, um, "Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting." You know? Which is... That's martial arts, right?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
That's... A black belt is white belt who never quit, you know?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
As long as you never quit, success is always possible. Uh, every failure just helps you learn and grow to, to, you know, get to your ultimate objective, your ultimate goal. And when I saw that, you know, right-
- NANarrator
I'm writing that book down right now.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah. Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill. I tell all my, all my students, all my competitors, all my guys, I always talk about that book. Um, and, and that was the first thing that I saw, you know. And, and like I said, like, going into this fight, all I wanted was that fight. Like, trying to get approved, that whole process was just like, "Hey, just give me this one. Just give me this one more. Don't stop me this short of, of my dream." You know? My dream to fight for the belt, to fight a legendary fighter like Mousasi, someone that's been, you know, at the top for so long. That was how I envisioned, you know, fighting for my first big world title, uh, in MMA. And, I mean, I was going out there like that was the last fight of my life, like it could potentially be the last fight of my life, you know, and all these stuff with my health, like... You know, when I'm thinking about my, my parents and my family, you know, like, wondering, you know, uh, "Am I gonna get hurt? Is this... I- i- i- am I, you know, gonna do something where selfishly, where because I want th- I want to fight, I want this, this title, that something could happen to me?"
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And, and, you know, um, "I'm not gonna be healthy, I'm not gonna be the same, and I'm gonna break their hearts." I had all these emotions and thoughts. And, and, you know, it was just like, like I was literally kind of... I mean, and it's, so to speak, going out there ready to die. Like, ready to just let it all out, like, "This is it." Uh, you know. All I wanted was this opportunity, you know? And, um, and I could feel how all of that was to prep me for the fight, you know? Everything that we went through, that fight to get to the fight. And my dad's in my corner, you know, he's in all... in my corner for all my fights. I had the guys that went through everything, you know, those, that last-... four or five weeks before the fight to get approved with me. And when I saw that, I looked around at them and I smiled. I said, "Guys, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it." You know, it was like, it was destiny. And, um, and I don't know, um, you know, if you've ever seen, but I, I've posted before some clips of my dad who is a professional organist. Uh, or former professional organist, but he still plays the organ. He's a musician. Um, and when I, when I walked out for this fight, I, uh, I had them play a, a clip of my, my dad playing the organ (clears throat) . And, uh, you know, growing up when I first started training martial arts, my dad was playing the organ at that time, uh, professionally. And, uh, and that was, that was what I did. The time that I spent with my dad, I was at church listening to him play the organ, and then we would go to the academy and, uh, and we would, you know, we would train. Um, or we would train at home and, you know, my father's in my corner and, you know, this is, uh, this is our work, you know. I am who I am because of him, I'm a martial artist because of him. I have my brothers, the guys I've been training with for over a decade. Um, you know, i- it was, it was, it was our destiny. It was family, you know, we were going out there to fight as a family. And, uh, and walking out to, to my dad playing the organ, um, you know, it just really, it, it, it, it, it took me to this place where it was like, "I'm gonna give everything I absolutely have. Win or lose I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna do my best. My absolute best." And, and then, you know, the fight went the way it did, came down to the fifth round. You know, um, that's where that fifth round came from, was, was for, for them, you know. The, the, the love that they gave me to, to get me, even just to get me there, you know, 'cause I was ready to break, man. I was, I, I, I, I was in pieces so many days, uh, in that camp. I, uh, you know, it, it was, uh, it was just a rollercoaster of emotions. But th- having them, you know, my father, my brothers behind me, that's where that strength came from. And, uh, and everything we went through e- before the fight. But, uh, that's why I was so emotional in the cage. I mean, you'd be emotional anyways for a title fight, but, um, you know, it, it was, uh, it was something else just to, just to get there, you know, and, and have that opportunity. And you could really... Mauricio, he, I mean, Mauricio, he, he's right there with the, his hands like...
- 45:52 – 1:17:22
Aftermath and uncertain future: Mousasi’s steroid accusations, denied commissions, and new path
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a powerful moment right there. Oof. Did it bother you that, uh, he was, uh, he had a lot of sour grapes after the fight. Gegard did.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It did. It did.
- JRJoe Rogan
He didn't, uh, didn't really credit you for the fight. He, he was just saying mostly that you were on steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(sighs) You see my mom?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Paying her respects, giving him a hug.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I mean, I understand-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
... that he felt bad 'cause he lost, but I felt like the way he handled it was uncharacteristic for him. He was attributing-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I thought so, too. We were so respectful before... After the fight I went up to him, you know, before they made the decision, I went up to him, I shook his hand, I said, "Man, it was an honor. You know, so much respect for you. Um, it was an honor to battle with you." You know, I thanked him. "Thank you." And we shook hands and hugged, and, and, uh, you know, but then he didn't stay after they raised my hand. He, he walked right out, we didn't shake hands again. And then everything else, yeah, really surprised me. Um, I, I think it was just hard to, to fathom, because, you know, this was my 10th fight. He'd already had over 50.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
He was a big, he was a big favorite. Uh, I, I just don't think, um, you know, he, he, i- uh, they were very confident. They were very (laughs) confident, um, leading up to the fight. And I don't think anyone imagined me to walk out of there with that belt. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially with one leg.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You didn't know about that.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah, it hurt really bad after. Uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
But, uh, you know, I didn't feel it. Like, I, that's... When the adrenaline's pumping-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you know, I, I didn't, it, uh, it wasn't until like an hour later I was like, "Whew." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
"It's pretty tight."
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, yeah, wh- why do you think he did that? Why do you, why do you think... I mean, he's lost before. I've, I've never seen him just attribute... ex- eh- essentially attribute most of your success. He was just accusing you of taking steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And not a little bit of steroids he was saying, like, monkey steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what he said.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah. I don't know. Uh, you know, his camp had a... I felt like Mousasi is genuinely, like, what I would call, uh, uh, you know, a real martial artist. He's a, he's a martial artist and he doesn't really ever, you know, trash talk anybody.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, and we were all very respectful, but, you know, his camp was... They were saying and doing some things that were a little edgier, I would say, when we...
- 1:17:22 – 1:25:06
Seeing the scans: gamma knife talk, the visible ‘big spot,’ and closing message
- NANarrator
(clears throat) I was googling it, there's something called a gamma knife surgery.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gamma knife surgery?
- NANarrator
Yeah, that might-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is your, uh, girl gonna go get it for you? Okay.
- NANarrator
Sure, cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gamma... J- Jamie just found you an option.
- NANarrator
Well, I don't know-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- NANarrator
... to say, hey, I'm no doctor here.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's a doctor.
- NANarrator
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
He just, uh-
- NANarrator
Yeah, it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
... sidelines as a producer.
- NANarrator
Without cutting open directly, I think it's some sort of radiation treatment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- NANarrator
Some li- it looked, it looked crazy. I'll pull it up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gamma knife treatment? Need to bring you to some witch doctor.
- NANarrator
(laughs) Gotta put this...
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, I mean, I can't imagine what you're, you're going through, man, and what you have gone through.
- NANarrator
Put that one in your head.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus Christ.
- NANarrator
Then you go into the machine like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
What the fuck? Okay, so folks, uh, that are just listening to this, it says brain stereotactic radio surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and it looks essentially like an MRI machine. Uh, and they got this guy bolted down, his head-
- NANarrator
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is kind of screwed into this fucking harness, so it, I guess he can't move. And then they roll you into this machine, and what does this machine do?
- NANarrator
I think it then does this, I saw this picture-
- JRJoe Rogan
Bro.
- NANarrator
... and another video of it where I guess radiation just hammers your head. Bro, they're-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm planning on going to this place, the Mayo Clinic.
Episode duration: 1:39:17
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Transcript of episode nZ7j2KFd0D4
