EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,000 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Three, two... All right.…
- JRJoe Rogan
Three, two... All right. What's up? How are you, brother?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm doing great. It's great to be back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Great to see you, man.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Congratulations on winning the title.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Appreciate that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fantastic achievement. I mean, beating Gegard Mousasi, who's, you know, top flight, one of the best in the, in the sport for sure.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And to beat him and win the Bellator middleweight title, that's... Gotta make you feel happy.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It was surreal. It was something else. And (laughs) when you hear the story about everything, um, man, it, it takes it to another level.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well this is why you're here. Um, we're here to talk about that, um, and w- just... I guess you should probably just explain what's going on.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Well, um, I guess I'll, I'll just kind of take you through the, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... order of events here. Um, you know, uh, that was my 10th fight, fighting for the Bellator title, and, uh, in all my other nine fights previously it was never required for me to get a brain scan done, um, just due to the, to the different states that I was fighting in at the time, the commissions there didn't require it. Um, in the US it's California and New York, and then Europe, um, you know, requires a brain scan. We were originally scheduled to fight, um, in January at The Forum in California, um, the same event that just happened this past Saturday night. Um, and, uh, so we were gonna fight 2019 at The Forum in January, and that fight got postponed. Uh, Mousasi was injured. And we eventually got rescheduled to fight in June in London. Um, so I already had a brain scan scheduled, um, for December, um, to get approved for that fight in January. But, I got the news about the fight getting canceled, um, like the week of that scan, a couple of days before, so I canceled it. I said, "I don't need to go get that done now." Um, and, so fast-forward, you know, I basically stayed in camp the whole year, uh, training, you know, with that fight on my mind, all the way from November when I started the first camp for the fight in January, you know, into the new year, uh, waiting for the, the new date. Um, and it was March that, uh, that I got the word that we were gonna fight in June in London. Um, and so, you know, I was basically training all year and I just picked right back up into camp. And, um, fast-forward, um, on into the very beginning of May, um, I was t- you know, already a good month into, like, the serious camp. Um, and I was just getting ready to fly to Brazil, Curitiba, uh, to get into the, you know, the hardest phase of camp. Uh, I was gonna be there for three weeks. And I had to get my MRI done, you know, and I wanted to get it done before I went to Brazil, uh, just to check it off the list. Um, so this was actually, uh, the week I had, um... I had two good buddies of mine, um, Jake Mapes and Sam Alvey, uh, were in Oklahoma, uh, training with me, and, uh, we had a great week of training. Everything's going really, really well. And, um, and it's Thursday, and so I go get my brain scan done to get that done, um, before I went to Brazil. And I'm in there and, you know, we're... we, we get through the whole process and, uh, the machine is done. Uh, it's not, you know, operating anymore. But they haven't called me out of the room yet, and I could kinda just sense something was going on. Um, so finally they say, "Okay, come on out." And the radiologist, with really no, like, no, uh, candor or, or like, like an easy, soft way of saying it was like, "Dude, uh, have you seen your brain before? Um, there's some stuff in here you need to see." And he, you know, pulls me into the room and shows me on the, on the screen. He's like, pointing out these, uh, you know, look like little balls. Um, uh, obviously it looked like something was wrong. It didn't look like a normal scan, but I'm not... I don't know, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Balls like?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Like, shades of, of, um, you know, discoloration, like according to the, the scan itself. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you could see that, you know, it, it wasn't normal. Um, and he didn't even know what it was at the time. And he was like, "Uh, let me, let me look this over tonight," uh, and I had my paper, you know, to get signed off that everything looks clear and normal, and, you know, he was just like, you know... He asked me if I had any concussions, and, um, i- if I'd had any issues. And I said, "No, no." And he's like, "Well this doesn't look right and you shouldn't be doing what you're doing." I'm like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Chill. (laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... "Okay, so are, are you gonna sign this paper?" And he's like, "No." And he's like, "Come back tomorrow and I'm gonna give you some more information." I say, "Okay." So I go back Friday, um, and he tells me that, you know, he did some research and he believes that I have a disease called cavernoma. Um, and, you know, he kind of hits me with that. Um, I had no idea what cavernoma was. Um, and, you know, he says, "Look, I'm not signing this paper. Um, you need to go see a specialist and get this looked at, but, uh, as far as I know, you should not fight. You know, you should not be fighting." And then, the next morning, I fly to Brazil, um, for my camp, you know, to, to go down there for the, the hard sparring and everything that I like to do. You know, stuff we talked about last time. And (laughs) so, I'm like, going... I'm, I'm, you know, i- in the airport, getting ready to go to Brazil for this portion of my camp, for this fight that is like, the biggest fight of my life, you know. I've already waited an extra six months for it. I've been training for it all year. And-Yeah, at this point I'm, like, just in shock of what is going on. My health, and, you know, uh, uh, so I'm, like, Googling everything that I can about cavernoma and trying to, to understand what it is. And basically, it's a disease where probably her- like, I probably got it from one of my parents. It's a, it's normally a hereditary disease, and your brain, uh, forms these extra blood vessels. Um, and these blood vessels grow and they can accumulate and sort of bundle up together into balls. Um, almost like, like, like weeds or vines, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
They, they, they wrap up together. And, um, these blood vessels are very prone to bleeding. Um, now they don't bleed so much in a, in a, in a instance where, you know, they could cause a hemorrhage. It's more like a slow, they, they use the term oozing effect, so it oozes blood out over time. Um, very little. Uh, little by little. And as they accumulate, you know, those balls, um, are very, you know, much more susceptible to, to bleeding. And, you know, reading about it, (laughs) wh- while I'm getting ready to go, you know, I'm flying to Brazil, I'm in the airport, I'm taking off. Um, you know, there's so many, like, extreme cases of this disease where people have to have multiple surgeries to get 'em removed, um, you know, seizures, vision issues, uh, com- people go into comas, and then of course worst, worst case is even death. And, you know, obviously Googling and, you know, not talking to a specialist and just kind of doing my own thing is not the best way to, (laughs) to get infor-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... information. And so I just have all these thoughts running in my head about, you know, what I'm dealing with and my health, and like, okay, uh, uh, now I'm going to, you know, uh, Brazil to, you know, train and spar, and, and I have this fight, and I'm, uh, right now I don't have anyone signing off on this paper, you know? Is this gonna happen? What's going on? Like, all these questions. And, um, so I get there and, you know, uh, at this point the only one that, that knows is, um, my girl, you know, and I'm confiding in her and I'm just, like, talking to her and, you know, she's shocked. Uh, I've never had any issues. I don't even really get headaches. I've never been knocked out. Um, you know, there's never been a, a time in my life where I thought, "Man, I should get my head looked at," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
"I think something could be wrong." You know? And so, um, you know, I'm talking with her and then I have my coach, Mauricio, uh, he's my head, um, MMA coach and my Muay Thai teacher. Um, and he goes with me down to, to Curitiba and we train there at his brother's academy, Andre Dida, uh, Dida's academy, Evoluição Thai. And, you know, we fly Saturday, arrive Sunday, start training Monday, and I'm just like, I'm trying to train this first day and I'm just like, "What am I doing?" You know? And I'm getting hit in the head and I'm like, "Man, am I slowly killing myself right here?" Like, you know, "What am I training for? At this point I'm not g- uh, I'm not approved. Like, what, what am I gonna do?" You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And, um, and so we, we talk it over and we're like, "Okay, obviously we need to get more opinions," you know? Um, and I'm down in Brazil for three weeks, um, basically all of May. Um, the fight was June 21st, um, or 23rd, something like that. And, um, and so I'm spending all of May there. Um, so I need to see some Brazilian doctors, some doctors down here in Curitiba. And so we just begin the process. Um, let's get a prescription.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you speak Portuguese?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm, I'm not 100% fluent, but I can get around. I can do pretty well on my own down there just from all the trips that I've done over the years. Um, so, you know, thankfully Mauricio, his brother Dida, um, they have so many connections down there, um, you know, uh, being who they are and the history that they have, um, you know, teaching martial arts. Y- y- you know, you get to know everybody, right?
- 15:00 – 30:00
So, so the doctors…
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
So, so the doctors in Brazil all said the same thing?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Well, they're kind of just, I mean, you know, fighting already isn't good for your brain, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Getting hit in the head isn't good for your brain, and I think just looking at it when you see it, and then you know that I'm gonna get hit in the head, and when I do, you're, you're automatically gonna be like, uh, "Hey, you know, there's already this extra bit of, of danger that we're putting in to a dangerous situation. Let's not, let's not play, let's not roll the dice, you know? Let's not play that game." Um, and so we were getting multiple doctors, um, saying no, you know, and, um, even one was like, (sighs) you know, they said that jujitsu could be dangerous, that me getting my blood cut off like in a choke, um, you know, cutting off the circulation to my brain, that could be dangerous. And so this week, I am literally not sleeping at all. I am crying multiple times a day, and I'm just like, "Man, what am I doing? I'm going into this sparring, you know, and I'm training and I'm not, I'm not gonna get approved. I'm not gonna fight." You know? And this has already been like a six, seven month training camp at this point, you know? Um, and it's for the belt, it's my life's work, it's everything for me, you know? So I was just crushed day in, day out, trying to get through, and on Thursday of that week, I'm doing MMA sparring and, you know, I kinda had it coming. I- I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have been going as hard as what I'd been going, but I was like trying to, you know, stay positive and stay ready, like, "What if? I need to, I need to be ready for this fight. You know, it's Mousasi. Like, I gotta be at my best." And in reality, I was just training, uh, like garbage. I was, I was having my worst training camp, uh, my worst fight camp, um, you know, because of everything. And on this day, I'm in my third round of MMA sparring and I, I strain my hamstring bad. Um, I go for like a double leg, and the guy has a judo background. He over-hooked, like whizzers me, and goes for like a uchi mata haraokoshi type of throw. I'm wearing wrestling shoes. I try to drop my hips, you know, so he doesn't elevate me, and my legs, my knees go straight and my foot gets stuck in the floor with the wrestling shoe. And my hamstring just snapped. Pop. You know, like a loud, like pop, pop, pop. And I just scream and I let go and I, you know, I get thrown down and I'm just like, "Ah." And I, you know, he- he knew something was wrong and we stopped right there, and my leg is just throbbing. And I tried to get up, I couldn't get up. So I had to, like, walk on my hands, scoot off the mat. I got carried out of the academy that day, could not walk, and I'm sitting down on the edge of the mat and I'm, I'm just like, I'm, I burst into tears, and I- I look to, I look up to Matisse and I'm like, "Man, it's not gonna happen." Like, "There is no way," you know? All this is going on, I'm not approved, I'm training horrible, my- I can't walk now, you know? And so, you know, that was the end of week two. All nos. We have one more doctor to see, um, who's like-... the professor of many of the doctors that I already saw. He is very highly regarded, one of the best doctors in the south of Brazil. Uh, neuro specialist, neurosurgeon. Um, we were so lucky to get in to see him, and, you know, 'cause he's booked up, booked up, booked up. But we managed an appointment time for Monday of the third week, Monday night. So, you know, I'm like, I've basically given up. I can't walk. Uh, I'm at home that whole weekend, and Xangji, he, uh, he had seminars on the weekend. You know, he came down there to support me at camp, but on the weekends he was going off to teach seminars in different areas of Brazil. And so I'm laid up in this Airbnb all weekend, and I'm like just FaceTiming my girl, and I'm like, you know, "Babe, you're like (sighs) I don't think this is happening. I can't believe I've come this far, you know, to the title shot, this much training, you know, for the camp." Like, going from November of 2018 into the end of May of 2019, that was my... That was it, was just this fight with Mousasi. And, um, and I, you know... (laughs) It took everything for me. Like this sounds funny, but the, the house, the Airbnb, the, the host, you know, she's like a great host. She left so many chocolates (laughs) and all this food in the house, like sweets, and I just wanted to pig out and eat all these chocolates, you know. Uh, I kept telling Xangji, "Bro, you gotta eat these things. Like, I, I, I can't look at these. I'm so, I'm such an emotional wreck right now," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And I'm in, I'm in the, the spot all weekend by myself, and I'm ready to give up. I'm like, "I'm gonna go eat churrascaria," you know what I mean? And eat all these chocolates and just like... You know, 'cause I have to diet very strict to make 185.
- JRJoe Rogan
What would you walk around at?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Around 210 to 215 is my normal weight, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's insane. Big cut.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, so I mean, that weight is kind of normal. Like most guys at 185 or around 210, but I'm already tall. I'm already naturally pretty lean. So I have to be very strict on my diet, um, to, to get that low. And I, uh, it took everything for me to not just pig out and just like totally give in. But, you know, uh, Mauricio was just like, "Hey, we have one more doctor, one more doctor." The whole weekend all I did was just put CBD cream on my leg. Uh, Resilience CBD, shout out to them, my sponsor, um, and I was using the MARQ Pro on my, on my leg, um, to-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a MARQ Pro?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It's like, uh, similar to like a TENS unit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... but it has different frequencies and you can go really deep in there and so I'm just like, "Okay, let me just try to recover this thing as much as I can." I couldn't train, couldn't do anything. I was basically stuck at home. Um, and that's all I did, and I just said, "Okay, Monday night, that's it. If he says no, it's done." And at this point I hadn't told anything to any... I, I, I let my manager Ed know, but we hadn't said anything to anybody else. Um, literally the only ones that knew were my girl, Xangji, Mauricio, and Ed. And so we go see this doctor Monday night, and man, right off the bat he kind of captivated us because he was the first one to be just chill and just like, "Okay, what's going on? What brings you here?" Didn't look at any pictures, didn't, you know, didn't rush it. And I tell him, "Uh, yeah, you know, uh, I got my scans. It looks like I have cavernoma," da-da-da-da. He said, "Okay, let me see your scans," and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, this is, this is, uh, cavernoma for sure. Um, how do you feel?" The first one to ask me, "How do you feel?" And I said, "Well, uh, you know, um, this is all a huge shock. I've never had any problems. Uh, I feel great. I'm fine, you know? I, you know, I don't even get headaches." And, um, he's like, "Okay, um," you know, uh, he talks with me and he's like, "Let's go do an evaluation." We do an evaluation and do some tests. Everything's norm. Like, just simple, like, you know, standing on one leg and all that kind of stuff. Um, you know, and everything's fine, and so we s- we go back to the office, we sit down, he's like, "Let me just see what I can find, but I guarantee I'm not gonna find anything that says head impact or trauma is gonna increase the risk of your caver- cavernoma bleeding." And so he starts looking up, you know, journals and, and, uh, you know, studies, uh, all the things that doctors have access to, and he, he literally finds nothing. Um, you know, there is no studies that say that getting hit in your head is gonna make your cavernoma worse or, or cause you to bleed and, and something's gonna happen. He's like, "Look, you can bleed, you know, you can be oozing blood at any point in time, uh, little by little, um, and it could become an issue at some point in time. Um, but there is no treatment, there is no... We're not gonna do surgery. Like, there's nothing that's gonna happen until you have symptoms, until you show signs. And because I can't find any studies that say getting hit in the head is gonna make it worse, and because you are, uh, you know, a normal, like, healthy functioning person at this point, I think it's fine for you to fight. You should continue doing what you do until it becomes a problem, and if it does become a problem, we'll go in there and we'll take it out, the big, the big mass. Um, and you know, then we'll, we'll move forward." Um, and so I'm just like...... uh, you know, I started getting emotional already and I'm kind of like, "Wow, are y- so, you'll write a letter saying this? You'll, you'll, you'll support me?" And he's like, "Yeah, sure, sure. No problem." Super calm guy. Just... a- and he was the oldest doctor we had spoken to as well, um, most experienced. And so, we get this letter. Man, we walk out of that office, uh, me and Mauricio, and (laughs) as soon as we, we w- leave the door and we get to the elevator, man, I just, (laughs) I just, like, burst into tears. I just, I can't believe that there's some hope. Like, this, this can still happen. And me and Mauricio embrace, and just, we both cry. I'm like, "Oh my God, we got the letter, we got the letter." So, I, uh, I send the letter to Ed and we begin the process of trying to get approved. We get everything into Bellator, let them know they got the scans. Um, they send it over to the Europe, uh, Commission. They use an organization called SAFE MMA. Um, and, you know, we kind of like... we're happy, we're positive, but at the same time, I'm still not approved. It's still not on, you know? But, eh, the letter is like, that was the missing piece. That was what we needed to be able to move forward. So, I finish that last week, um, unable to really move. (laughs) Uh, you know, I can't wrestle, I can't kick, and my last week in Brazil, you know, uh, I'm literally just hitting mitts (laughs) like this. And I'm like, "Okay." Trying to stay positive. I still have like a month. Let's get this healed. Let's just keep sweating.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you get an MRI on the hamstring?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No, I didn't get an MRI on the hamstring. Um, it, uh, it didn't have any discoloration, so it wasn't a, a tear. Um, it was like a severe strain.
- JRJoe Rogan
But with the popping?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It, it didn't turn black and blue, and so without that colora- discoloration, I didn't... I almost didn't even wanna know. I was just like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you know, like...
- JRJoe Rogan
When did it start feeling better?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It didn't, really. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I, I actually still feel it now. Uh, it... yeah. Um, it was a situation the whole way. Um, but I could stand. (laughs) So, I could stand and all I'm doing is boxing now at this point because I can't throw kicks and I can't change levels to, to do takedowns. Um, and so, that was a whole nother thing because, you know, as I'm waiting to, to hear back on if I'm gonna get approved, I'm only punching mitts like I might as well be doing like a cardio kick- kickboxing class, you know? Without kicks. And that was the last thing that I wanna do with Mousasi, is just go in there and box, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
That's not what I do, right? So, (sighs) the, the hardships and frustrations were just continued, um, as I'm dealing with my hamstring. But at least we had some, some hope. Um, so, I finish that week, fly home, um, and now I'm finishing, like, my last couple weeks of camp at home in Oklahoma. Shaanji comes to Oklahoma. You know, Mauricio's there, and, um, I'm trying to put together some great training. One of my best training partners from Curitiba, his name is Chris, Cristiano, he came to Oklahoma as well. Um, and, you know, everyone's aware of the situation as far as my coaches, my team. I did not tell my parents. Um, I, I didn't want anyone to know. I didn't want it to get out. Um, and so I was just dealing with it with them, you know? And, um, and so we send everything in, um, w- and we're waiting, we're waiting. W- the, this guy, his name is Yanni, he's on the, the Commission with SAFE MMA, he reaches out to me like after the first week, and he said, "Hey, we need to talk." And so I give him a call and, uh, and he's like, "We, we got the letter. We're looking at your scans. We've actually created a panel of doctors to talk about this, um, and at this point it's 50/50." You know? "I just want you to know, we're, we're n- unsure if we're gonna approve. Um, and I just want you to hear, you know, I just wanted to touch base with you, wanted you to hear from me. We see everything, but you have to understand, we're, we're still not sure, so bear with us." I'm like, "Okay." Try to get through the next week. Um, ha- I had some decent days with my hamstring, um, where I could shoot a little bit and work some takedowns, but, um, if I had a good day, the next day I had to take it real light because it was just... it was so tight, so tight, so tender. Um, well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you get it massaged at all?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Oh, yeah. I was doing everything, everything possible. I mean, getting it worked on, um, doing hot/cold. Like,
- 30:00 – 45:00
How were you staying…
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
you know, I'm, I'm pretty... like, a- a- anything out there (laughs) that, that is for recovery I have probably at my house, you know? Um, I am big on really taking care of my body, so I was just trying to be as smart as I could and just get through it. And, you know, we come to this point now where, uh, the fight is two weeks away, and I don't know if it's on or not. Um, you know, and I'm just trying to put together as good of training as I can, stay as positive as I can, but at the same time, I'm just like, "Man..."... I need the yes, you know? I need to be able to, to focus.
- JRJoe Rogan
How were you staying conditioned when you, you barely can use your leg?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Man, it was, it was really hard. Um, I, I was heavier. I was walking around heavier than what I normally wa- would, um, for, for my fights, you know. By this time, I'm normally below 205, um, in the 200 to 205 range. That's where I like to get to just off pure diet and off training, and I was still 210 to 212. Um, you know, it, it was hard. Like, I, I couldn't, I, I could box, you know, and I could box hard and I could spar boxing, but without wrestling, I, I didn't feel like I was conditioned the way-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... I wanted to be. Um, I couldn't sprint. I could ride the bike. Um, the bike didn't put too much pressure, but I couldn't go all out the way I would like to.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like an Airdyne?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Airdyne. Um, everything was not the way it would normally be done. Now, you know, you're never 100%. You're always dealing with something, you know. I've, I've had a broken nose before, cuts, rib things. Like, there's always something, you know. Um, but, uh, but it was, it was the stress of both and, and the un- uncertainty on if we would get to fight at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
That was really hard. And for sure, that's why I got hurt, you know. That's 100% why I got hurt. Um, but anyways, um, finally, on, like, the last day that they could give me the answer, they gave me the answer. And I got the email and it said, "We've approved you. You are approved to fight," two weeks before the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I held off on, you know, I'm, I'm flying my family there, you know what I mean? I have all my, my, like, there's the corner coach, but then I have a couple other coaches that I was, you know, gonna fly out there, and I was waiting to purchase these tickets and, you know, I had some other guys like, "Hey, where are you staying? What's going on?" Like, uh, "I'm ready." And I'm like, "Hey, don't book anything just yet. Don't book any-" 'Cause I don't want them to buy tickets to London-
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... and, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... I'm not fighting. And I'm trying to, like, be cool and not give anyone too, you know, uh, too much an idea of what's going on, and stay positive, stay confident and everything. Finally, we got the green light, and I'm literally flying a few days later to London. Uh, uh, we left on Tuesday, uh, and arrived there Wednesday. I got there, like, 10 days before, so I have one weekend before the weekend of the fight. Um, and, uh, you know, at this point, it was like, okay, once we got that yes, I mean, we celebrated. It was like, you know, that's all I wanted. I mean, I had already fought so hard just to be able to get to this fight, you know. Um, and we, you know, we, we go to London and my leg starts doing a little better, and I'm like, you know, starting to just feel it, and like, "Okay, this is it, you know. Everything's coming together. We're gonna, we're gonna finish things on a, on a good note." And Friday, the week before the fight, I'm at Rogerson Academy in London, Roger Gracie, um, he opened up his doors, let us work in there. And, um, and I'm feeling good and I overdo it and I feel my hamstring go again. It wasn't a full pop, but it was like that stretch where it catches it and it just like, uh, and it's just like this pain rush through, and I'm like, "Oh, no, I did it again," you know. I could feel it tighten up and lock and I had to stop training that day, and this is a week before the fight now. And I'm right back to that, like, I can't, I can't change levels, I can't kick, and I'm just like, you know, once again an emotional wreck. Um, and my friend, Cameron Shane, who's a mobility yoga, um, guru, he's just, uh, an amazing guy. He, uh, you know, being that I felt the way I did, I don't wanna go back to Rogerson try to do anything because I didn't want people to see me. And he has these, uh, you know, yoga connections all throughout the world, and we found a yoga studio where my last few days we could go there and try to do whatever we could where no one could see, you know, as far as, like, other jiu-jitsu guys or MMA guys. Um, and, um, and man, the Sunday before the fight, we, we go into this yoga studio and, uh, we're trying to get a workout together, and I'm just like, man, I, I break down and I just start crying. I'm like, "Guys," 'cause I'm literally, you know, hitting mitts like this again. I'm right back to that. Monees was just like, "Just, just punch, just, just to lose the weight, you know." I'm like, "Man, I need to wrestle. I need to feel my takedowns. I need to feel my whole game coming together." And I just break down, and all the guys come around me, you know. Uh, and they just, man, they, they consoled me in such a, a special way. And, I mean, we just cut it that day. Like, there was no more training, but, you know, I, I can't, I can't begin to give a- as much gratitude and, and describe, like, how much my team was there for me when I needed them because, you know, uh, I, I, I was, I was not in a good state of mind. I was not in a good place. Um, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
I can imagine. You're six days out-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in London, and you literally can't use your leg.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Exactly. Exactly. Um, and, you know, they just, uh, like, the, the love and the inspiration and everything that they put into me, um, I mean, we, we all fought that fight together. We all fought that fight together.And, you know, we left that day, had a couple more days before we check into the Bellator Hotel. The Tuesday... Wednesday is when we go to the Bellator Hotel. Tuesday, I was able to put together a good day of training. Like-
- NANarrator
So it loosened up.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... the... It loosened back up. It wasn't, it w- like I said, it wasn't a full, as bad as the first one. Um, it just hit me for a second, but I think, like, you know, um, those moments, um, you know, I needed that. I needed to, to combine our energies, you know, because look how that fight ended up going, you know?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
You know? Uh, I felt like, like, that, that fight before the fight was to prep me for the fight, you know?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, and, um, you know, going there, obviously I'm a big underdog, you know. The... It's in London. Mousasi has so much history there, he's from Amsterdam. Um, you know, uh, uh, I don't know if any- anyone out there saw the video that Bellator put out afterwards where I said, like, you know, "We did it." And, and you could see how emotional I was. This is why, you know?
- NANarrator
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Um, and fast-forward to when we're backs- backstage, um, you know, getting ready to go out there, um, I always take, m- uh, my favorite book, Think and Grow Rich from Napoleon Hill. I always take that.
- NANarrator
Why is that?
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
It's a powerful moment…
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
there, you know, 'cause I was ready to break, man. I was, I, I, I, I was in pieces so many days, uh, in that camp. I, uh, you know, it, it was, uh, it was just a rollercoaster of emotions. But th- having them, you know, my father, my brothers behind me, that's where that strength came from. And, uh, and everything we went through e- before the fight. But, uh, that's why I was so emotional in the cage. I mean, you'd be emotional anyways for a title fight, but, um, you know, it, it was, uh, it was something else just to, just to get there, you know, and, and have that opportunity. And you could really... Mauricio, he, I mean, Mauricio, he, he's right there with the, his hands like...
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a powerful moment right there. Oof. Did it bother you that, uh, he was, uh, he had a lot of sour grapes after the fight. Gegard did.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
It did. It did.
- JRJoe Rogan
He didn't, uh, didn't really credit you for the fight. He, he was just saying mostly that you were on steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(sighs) You see my mom?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Paying her respects, giving him a hug.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I mean, I understand-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
... that he felt bad 'cause he lost, but I felt like the way he handled it was uncharacteristic for him. He was attributing-
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I thought so, too. We were so respectful before... After the fight I went up to him, you know, before they made the decision, I went up to him, I shook his hand, I said, "Man, it was an honor. You know, so much respect for you. Um, it was an honor to battle with you." You know, I thanked him. "Thank you." And we shook hands and hugged, and, and, uh, you know, but then he didn't stay after they raised my hand. He, he walked right out, we didn't shake hands again. And then everything else, yeah, really surprised me. Um, I, I think it was just hard to, to fathom, because, you know, this was my 10th fight. He'd already had over 50.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
He was a big, he was a big favorite. Uh, I, I just don't think, um, you know, he, he, i- uh, they were very confident. They were very (laughs) confident, um, leading up to the fight. And I don't think anyone imagined me to walk out of there with that belt. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially with one leg.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You didn't know about that.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah, it hurt really bad after. Uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
But, uh, you know, I didn't feel it. Like, I, that's... When the adrenaline's pumping-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you know, I, I didn't, it, uh, it wasn't until like an hour later I was like, "Whew." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
"It's pretty tight."
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, yeah, wh- why do you think he did that? Why do you, why do you think... I mean, he's lost before. I've, I've never seen him just attribute... ex- eh- essentially attribute most of your success. He was just accusing you of taking steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And not a little bit of steroids he was saying, like, monkey steroids.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what he said.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah. I don't know. Uh, you know, his camp had a... I felt like Mousasi is genuinely, like, what I would call, uh, uh, you know, a real martial artist. He's a, he's a martial artist and he doesn't really ever, you know, trash talk anybody.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Mm-hmm. …
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
fight in LA, you know, which was gonna be amazing. Uh, all the, the friends that I have here for my career in jiu-jitsu, you know, and already looking ahead to... I mean, a- actually I was, I was shooting for us to fight in Japan. They just did their first Bellator Japan, uh, on New Year's Eve. And I thought, "Oh, with Mousasi's history in Japan, maybe we could fight there." But they wanted us in LA, which was fine, but, you know, starting to see that, hey, these big arenas, and, and, you know, um, really just, like, the big, the big shows were right there, like, a- at grasp, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Putting on for, for my team, for my family, and, and, you know, for where I'm, I'm from, like, we're about to be there, you know? And, um, you know, so, (sighs) like, I was super excited, super excited, um, for this fight. But Bellator, they would say, "Okay, we're gonna get this into, to California sort of under the table. You know, we're not gonna put in the official application, um, because if they deny, you know, um, now that'll be two commissions on paper that say no."And so, uh, you know, they kind of put this into the Athletic Commission's hands, uh, with Andy Foster, uh, with the California State Athletic Commission. Said, "Hey, you know, we have a guy who has this condition. Just tell me what you guys would do with this situation. Uh, would it be approved or not?" And it was like mid-December, um, the word came back that it was gonna be a no. And, um, so that's really, you know, why I'm here right now (camera clicking) is, uh, you know, people... I- I've, uh, committed myself to, to getting back into grappling and jiu-jitsu. Um, right now, uh, I have a, a match lined up next month, um, and I'm sure, you know, eh, there's questions. There already have been questions. I had already told my students. I mean, I had signed a bout agreement and everything for, for January, and I had students buying tickets to come to LA to, to be here at my fight. Um, you know, and I've been like, like, "Ugh, you know, we got, we got postponed, we got delayed." I haven't said anything to anyone other than my... I mean, I just told my parents a few weeks ago, you know? I finally told them. I didn't-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do your parents have this? Have they gotten themselves checked?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
They haven't gotten scanned yet, um, but the plan is for them to, to get checked out for sure. And that's a big, a big reason why I'm here today, Joe, is to, to, you know, create awareness for this because, you know, who knows? And it's- it's- it's really given me a different outlook. Like, we get physicals, we go see the dentist, we get our... We get checked up, you know? Um, but how often do you think, "Let me get a brain scan done to know what's going on with my head," you know? "To know how my brain looks," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
I've thought about doing it and I'm actually nervous.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I don't blame you. (laughs) I don't blame you. Uh, now I... Man, I totally get that. Um, before, like I said, I went into so like, "Oh, this is just a routine thing."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
You know, to get approved to fight? I've fought nine times already.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Imagine who else could be out there with something, either in their- living a regular life, or maybe in an extreme life where they're doing combat or, um, you know, in some sort of extreme sport where they're getting hit in the head, but it was never required of them to get a scan done. Um, and they never just had an issue so they never thought about it, you know? Um, and you don't really know what's going on up there until you get it looked at.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, are you officially retiring?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'm not officially retiring. I am sort of, I guess, indefinitely on the sidelines right now. I am, I am actively seeing more doctors and working towards learning more about this. I w- o- obviously, I wanna keep fighting. It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
This gentleman in LA, uh, Dr. Wong, is that what you said?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So he had done these operations on, you said MMA fighters?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Uh, I don't know if he operated on... He, he mentioned boxers and NFL players. I don't know if he operated on them. He had seen it in them and helped them continue their careers and he keeps like a close eye. So, you know, I need to get scans done at least once a year, or every six months.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was your... That patch, the large patch on the back of your head, was that particularly troubling to him?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
More than the other ones?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No, no. He said, like, that it was in the best location possible.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. To get to.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
All right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
And because it's not deep in... It- it's not in an area where it could affect my, my cognitive functions, my memory, things like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
What goes on back there?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Back there? You know, I'm not 100% sure. Uh, they made it... I mean, he made it sound like nothing too important happens there. It's more like-
- JRJoe Rogan
That seems weird. (laughs)
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
(laughs) I know, like... The back area, as far as what I've learned thus far, is more like, everyday type of stuff, you know? It's not your memory. It's not in a position where you could violently lose your temper or kind of like have like a, a lapse in time, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:15:00 – 1:25:06
Right. …
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
difference of cavernoma specifically, but I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do whatever I can, um, I wanna be healthy, uh, obviously, you know, just, just for me and whether I get to fight or not. But, um, you know, like I said, I'm just gonna stay positive. And in the meantime, look, I, I don't wanna hold up the division. Like, uh, you know, I don't want to... I know Bellator is, is being, being very kind with time, uh, as we're going through all of this, um, but I understand. You know, there's guys out there that deserve to fight for the title, um, and if they need to set up a, a, a fight to determine the new champion, you know, um, I understand. You know, I'm gonna be over here doing everything I can to hopefully get approved to, to come back, but, um, you know, like I said, it's sort of an indefinite retirement. I'm just working through this and as people see me competing, I didn't want them to think that I'm just not trying to defend my belt or f-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... you know, uh, whatever with when Bellator, if they have to move forward, you know, and, and make another fight for the belt, um, and people wondering what's going on with me. Like, this is it, like, this is what I'm dealing with and through this I'm just hoping to, um, you know, help others that might have the same condition.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have there been any cases of people with cavernoma that have gone into remission?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Uh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know. Um... uh, I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
The doctors didn't talk to you about that?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Mm-mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
No?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Mm-mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You didn't ask that?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
That would be like the first thing I would've asked. Like, has anybody ever like made this go away?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yeah, I don't think it, I don't think that's possible.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just is what it is.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Yes. Yeah, I mean, there's... Uh, I wish I w- I, I should've brought in the pictures. I have several little spots all, all over-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I'd like to see it.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
... all over, um, they're actually in my car. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Where's your car?
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Right outside.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Go get it. We'll wait.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
Okay, I'm sorry.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah. No worries, man. Go get it.
- RJRafael Lovato Jr.
I'll just be right back.
- JRJoe Rogan
No worries. Gotta see it, right? I mean, how often do you get a chance to look at a dude's brain? I'm scared to go into my brain, dude. I bet there's like pitchforks in there and shit (laughs) . All sorts of, like, sometimes I wonder, like...
- NANarrator
(clears throat) I was googling it, there's something called a gamma knife surgery.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gamma knife surgery?
- NANarrator
Yeah, that might-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is your, uh, girl gonna go get it for you? Okay.
- NANarrator
Sure, cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gamma... J- Jamie just found you an option.
Episode duration: 1:39:17
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