CHAPTERS
- 0:01 – 3:15
Afro talk, grappling escapes, and women’s fight gear choices
Joe and Angela open with a playful discussion about her afro and how hair can affect grips and scrambles. They quickly broaden it into the practicalities of women’s MMA uniforms—sports bras, tops vs. bare midriff—and how clothing can change grappling friction and even create wardrobe-malfunction risks.
- •Angela jokes that her afro can help her slip out of guillotines
- •Clothing choices in women’s MMA can affect grip and control for grapplers
- •Loose tops can get tangled or pulled, changing fight dynamics
- •The sport balances athlete presentation with practical uniform needs
- 3:15 – 4:50
Wardrobe malfunctions, Leslie Smith toughness, and the MMA union idea
The conversation turns comedic about intentional wardrobe disruption, then shifts to Leslie Smith’s reputation for toughness. From there, they discuss Smith’s continued push for a UFC fighters’ union and what issues it’s meant to address.
- •Angela jokes about clinch techniques causing wardrobe slips (but says she hasn’t done it)
- •Leslie Smith’s famous ‘ear hanging off’ fight and her grit
- •Smith’s move to Bellator while still advocating for UFC fighters
- •Union goals: healthcare, pay, and fighter grievances
- 4:50 – 7:51
Healthcare gray areas and the reality of training injuries
Joe presses on how UFC healthcare actually works day-to-day, especially for injuries sustained in camp. Angela describes the uncertainty around coverage timing, the ‘gray area’ of obligations, and how some fighters book bouts partly to get medical issues treated.
- •Coverage is clearer for fight-related injuries than general training wear-and-tear
- •Delays in reporting can jeopardize reimbursement/coverage
- •Lower-profile fighters may struggle more to get support without asking
- •Some fighters fight injured or book fights to access medical care
- 7:51 – 13:35
Training as a 115-pound pro: partner size, safety, and learning from TUF
They dig into the difficulty of finding appropriate training partners at strawweight, often forcing women to train with larger men. Angela explains how her earlier belief—training with men makes women opponents feel easier—changed after seeing how tough women are on The Ultimate Fighter.
- •Smaller women often lack same-size sparring partners and must train with men
- •Bigger partners raise injury risk (hands/feet vs. heavier bodies)
- •TUF revealed many women share the same ‘trained with guys’ background
- •Women can feel just as strong in the cage due to intensity and toughness
- 13:35 – 22:10
Turning the corner: anxiety, the Randa Marcos fight, and present-moment focus
Joe asks what’s improved in Angela’s recent performances, and she points to a mental shift after a frustrating fight with Randa Marcos. She describes overthinking, fighting ‘in a fog,’ and the process of training presence—visualization, mindfulness, and a ‘fuck it’ mindset that unlocked her best sparring.
- •Pressure, cameras, and fear of losing amplified in the Marcos fight
- •Recognizing hesitation and overthinking as the real performance problem
- •New routines: visualization, staying present in training, mindfulness (Headspace)
- •Confidence boost from ‘letting it go’ and trusting preparation
- 22:10 – 28:41
Hypnosis, flow state, and making competition feel familiar
Joe suggests sports psychology and hypnosis, sharing his experience with hypnotherapist Vinny Shoreman and the idea of training access to flow. Angela connects this to her preference for quick turnarounds between fights and explains how the cage environment can feel intensely different from TV—texture, smell, scale, and nerves.
- •Hypnosis framed as entering a different state to access flow and performance
- •Flow state as the goal: reacting without overthinking under pressure
- •Quick turnaround fights can reduce anxiety by keeping routines familiar
- •Octagon ‘realness’ (canvas texture/smell/perspective) can spike nerves
- 28:41 – 35:10
Late start origins: from office job to Muay Thai addiction
Angela explains she didn’t train seriously until age 24, starting Muay Thai mainly for fitness after an office job made her feel inactive. She describes getting hooked immediately—discovering power, athletic milestones like head kicks, and realizing combat sports fit her better than team sports.
- •Started Muay Thai at 24 after feeling ‘fat and lazy’ in a sedentary job
- •Instant addiction after first class: elbows/knees felt empowering
- •Athletic breakthroughs (flexibility, head kicks) built identity as a fighter
- •Team sports never stuck; individual conflict/competition did
- 35:10 – 52:53
Amateur success, going pro, and the TUF whirlwind
Angela lays out a rapid competitive rise: first fight about nine months after starting, a 14–0 amateur Muay Thai run, small pro payouts, and then a sudden pivot into MMA. She recounts taking her first pro MMA fight two days before TUF tryouts, surprising herself with strong striking at tryouts, and landing on the show despite being very green in grappling.
- •First fight roughly 9 months after starting training
- •14–0 amateur Muay Thai; went pro when opponents dried up
- •Very low pay in Muay Thai (e.g., ~$700 on Lion Fight)
- •First pro MMA bout happened right before TUF tryouts; striking stood out to Dana
- 52:53 – 1:00:07
TUF experience, rankings frustration, and why ‘being ranked’ can mess with your head
Angela describes enjoying TUF more than many because she arrived with low expectations. The topic shifts to UFC rankings—how she felt overlooked even after strong performances, and why she eventually stopped checking rankings to protect her self-worth and focus on winning rather than validation.
- •Low expectations made TUF feel like a bonus experience rather than a burden
- •Rankings can feel arbitrary and don’t always reflect competitiveness
- •Angela’s frustration after beating a ranked opponent yet not moving up
- •Choosing to ignore rankings as part of reducing mental stress
- 1:00:07 – 1:06:44
Judging problems: Houston controversies, open scoring, and more judges
They pivot into MMA judging, using recent controversial decisions (including the Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes debate) as examples. Joe and Angela discuss reforms like open scoring, public accountability, and increasing the number of judges (even one per octagon panel) to reduce variance and bad calls.
- •Bad judging can force fighters to chase finishes for safety
- •Houston card cited as an ‘embarrassment’ due to multiple disputed decisions
- •Proposals: open scoring after each round and judge accountability
- •Increase judges from 3 to 5, 6, or even 8 (one per octagon panel)
- 1:06:44 – 1:13:12
Travel to New Zealand, early COVID worries, and a long animal-intelligence detour
As Angela prepares to fly to Auckland, they briefly discuss the emerging coronavirus concern and the risks of long-haul travel. The show then veers into animal topics: market wildlife, elephants’ intelligence and ethics of elephant riding, and comparisons to other intelligent animals like chimps and octopuses.
- •15-hour flight logistics and concern about coronavirus spread
- •Discussion of wildlife markets and disease origin theories (as discussed on other podcasts)
- •Elephants’ intelligence, memory, and the ethics of riding vs. sanctuaries
- •Animal cognition: chimps’ memory tests; octopus intelligence vs. short lifespan
- 1:13:12 – 1:26:56
Sanctuaries and captivity: elephants, wolves, tigers, and why it can feel depressing
Joe and Angela trade experiences visiting animal sanctuaries and tourist attractions, contrasting humane rehabilitation with exploitative setups. Joe describes a wolf sanctuary that felt like a ‘prison’ due to small enclosures, and recounts a deeply depressing tiger facility where adult tigers appeared drugged for photos.
- •Elephant sanctuaries: bathing/feeding vs. discomfort with riding practices
- •Wolf sanctuary story: rescued wolves, neutering to prevent breeding, small pens
- •Tiger ‘sanctuary’ in Thailand: cubs energetic, adults seemingly drugged for selfies
- •Broader theme: good intentions vs. captivity realities and animal welfare concerns
- 1:26:56 – 1:33:22
Back to fighting: walk-around weight, weight classes, and the cost of big cuts
Returning to MMA, they discuss Angela’s walk-around weight, her relatively small cut to 115, and why she’s cautious about going lower (105) despite having competed lighter in Muay Thai. Joe advocates for more weight classes, and they compare how extreme cuts can degrade performance and long-term health.
- •Angela walks ~125–130 and usually cuts ~10 pounds for strawweight
- •At 105 she looks/feels ‘Skeletor’-lean; prior cuts were mostly dieting, not water manipulation
- •Big cuts can harm durability, cognition, and performance (diminishing returns)
- •Need for more divisions, especially to reduce dangerous gaps in women’s MMA
- 1:33:22 – 2:21:25
Division talk and matchups: Nunes/Shevchenko dominance, and strawweight title dynamics
They close this portion with broader fight analysis: physical ‘freak’ power in champions, how dominant champs raise divisions, and what Angela expects from key matchups. Discussion centers on strawweight storylines—Andrade’s pressure style, Weili Zhang’s rise, and the looming Weili vs. Joanna fight plus Joanna’s weight-cut questions.
- •Champions with rare power/timing edges (Nunes comparisons, ‘touch’ power)
- •Andrade’s aggressive pressure and defensive trade-offs; why a KO was ‘eventually’ coming
- •Weili Zhang’s intensity and well-rounded comfort across phases
- •Weili vs. Joanna preview: Joanna’s reach/style vs. concerns about making 115 again
