The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #96 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:43
Trevor Wittman on coaching awards, small rosters, and rebuilding after gym turmoil
Joe opens by praising Trevor’s coaching accolades, prompting Trevor to explain why he values a small, focused stable of athletes. He recounts a difficult period when he lost most of his fighters and had to rebuild his gym and career from scratch.
- •Trainer of the Year discussion and why Trevor felt he didn’t ‘deserve’ it with only a few athletes
- •The tradeoff between running a big gym (time, family costs) vs. a small stable (attention, relationships)
- •Rebuilding after losing athletes and financial pressure of a large facility
- •Motivation and self-talk: repeating confidence during a career low point
- 1:43 – 2:49
Why one-on-one coaching matters more than ‘super gyms’
Joe and Trevor compare individualized coaching to mega-gyms where athletes can feel overlooked. Trevor explains the psychological and tactical benefits of deeply knowing an athlete’s habits and mindset through constant, direct work.
- •Athletes in big camps often complain about lack of attention and stagnant progress
- •Trevor’s boxing background: small groups, high-touch coaching, even living/feeding fighters in camp
- •Mental game as a decisive factor—Trevor praises Gaethje’s mentality
- •Coaching as passion and service to the athlete rather than a money-first job
- 2:49 – 5:50
Gaethje’s ‘zero striking’ beginnings and the first day at Trevor’s gym
Justin reveals he began MMA with essentially no formal striking training, relying on wrestling and toughness. Trevor tells the story of meeting Justin and being shocked by his readiness to spar without even owning gear.
- •Justin had amateur fights with no striking training and decided he needed a coach after getting rocked
- •Origin of ‘The Highlight’ from wrestling slams/throws before elite striking developed
- •Trevor’s first impression: confusion over Gaethje’s name and the ‘I’m here to fight’ attitude
- •Early sparring anecdote: loving the feeling of landing/receiving big shots
- 5:50 – 8:15
Building trust: coach-athlete relationship, peaking, and avoiding overtraining
The conversation shifts to what elite coaching looks like day-to-day: trust, communication, and controlling training load. Trevor argues that many fighters overtrain by stacking hard sessions across multiple gyms without a unified plan.
- •Why a tight coach-athlete bond beats generic corner advice
- •Value of big camps for partners/styles—but danger of fragmented coaching across disciplines
- •Overtraining as a major sport-wide problem; most injuries occur in training
- •Trevor’s approach: pulling back strategically to peak rather than constantly pushing
- 8:15 – 11:44
Training by intuition and purpose: tailoring heart-rate, style, and goals
Joe asks about wearables and heart-rate variability; Trevor says intuition and deep athlete knowledge guide his decisions. He explains how an athlete’s purpose—highlight-reel fighter vs. future champion—changes how they train and fight.
- •No heavy reliance on tech; coaching decisions based on observation and athlete-specific needs
- •Different fighters perform best at different intensity/heart-rate profiles
- •Serving the athlete’s goals (their ‘purpose’) rather than the coach’s preferences
- •Gaethje’s evolution: from ‘most exciting’ to explicitly pursuing a world title
- 11:44 – 20:47
Short-notice chaos: the Tony Ferguson offer, cancellations, and mental readiness
They break down the two Tony Ferguson offers during COVID-era scheduling uncertainty. Justin explains why the first ‘special’ circumstance felt acceptable, but the second felt wrong—primarily due to mindset and preparation standards.
- •Timeline confusion clarified: April 18 (Tai Chi Palace) cancellation, then May 9 offer
- •Justin’s immediate post-cancellation rebound: weight jump and binge food choices
- •Gaethje’s emphasis on confidence and mental preparation over just ‘being in shape’
- •Trevor’s camp structure: hard weeks, pullback week, peak weeks, and ideal camp length
- 20:47 – 25:17
From wrestler to striker: using wrestling invisibly through clinch leg kicks and positioning
Joe probes why an All-American wrestler rarely shoots takedowns in the UFC. Justin explains he was a defensive wrestler and now uses wrestling concepts—pressure, weight manipulation, clinch control—to set up damaging kicks and strikes.
- •Gaethje’s defensive wrestling pedigree (including anecdotes about Jordan Burroughs)
- •Clinch kicking explained: feeling weight shifts through contact to time leg kicks
- •Principle: ‘can’t check if your weight is on it’—positioning makes defense impossible
- •Wrestling and fighting aren’t separate for him; wrestling is embedded in striking exchanges
- 25:17 – 26:26
Career crossroads: two UFC losses, fighting ‘in spots,’ and redefining defense
After losses to Alvarez and Poirier, Justin and Trevor describe a critical adjustment: keeping aggression but using it selectively. Trevor frames championship-level fighting as defensive excellence built from positional discipline and controlled bursts.
- •Why exciting ‘car crash’ fighting fails against top-tier opponents—one mistake flips everything
- •Key shift: calculated aggression—‘fight in spots’ rather than nonstop maximum output
- •Defense starts with position; win positions to win exchanges and rounds
- •Corner example: ‘take 10% off’ leading to cleaner shots and better endurance
- 26:26 – 37:36
Mindset, identity, and staying grounded: emotions, crowds, and life after fighting
They discuss how crowds influence decision-making, why controlling emotions is essential, and how fame can derail athletes. Trevor and Joe explore retirement struggles, identity loss, and the need for life coaching alongside fight coaching.
- •No-crowd fights helping Gaethje stay emotionally neutral and tactically disciplined
- •Trevor’s philosophy: positivity, acceptance of bad days, and mental self-control
- •Outside influences (relationships, entourage, fame) changing athletes over time
- •Retirement and identity crisis: highs of fighting vs. difficulty transitioning to normal life
- 37:36 – 1:11:44
Comic detour with real stakes: cups, sparring safety, and ‘protect your jewels’
A lighthearted segment turns into a safety discussion about training without protective gear. They trade stories about groin shots, Thai steel cups, and the absurdities of combat sports preparation.
- •Gaethje admits he often doesn’t spar with a cup; Trevor argues it’s unnecessary in some sparring
- •Stories of severe groin injuries (Duane Ludwig anecdote) and steel Thai cups
- •How gear choices can create new problems (oversized cup causing a foul)
- •Randy Johnson bird-hit clip and probability talk as the conversation spirals humorously
- 1:11:44 – 1:26:52
Lessons from the past: Shane Carwin stories, injuries, and referee stoppage philosophy
Trevor and Joe trade stories about heavyweight power (Shane Carwin), training injuries, and corner dynamics. The discussion expands into how referees and corners must prioritize long-term fighter safety in stoppage decisions.
- •Trevor sparring while much smaller than Carwin; Carwin breaking Trevor’s nose with a jab
- •Carwin’s notorious power and the Brock Lesnar fight: gassing, strategy, and near-finish
- •Referee subjectivity; preference for earlier stoppages to reduce long-term damage
- •Corner responsibility vs. chaotic corners—need for one clear voice and authority
- 1:26:52 – 2:46:25
From coaching to innovation: Wittman’s Onyx equipment mission and fixing MMA’s gear problems
Trevor explains how chronic hand/arm injuries and training safety concerns pushed him to design better equipment. He demonstrates why UFC gloves are flawed (hand forced open, poor foam, inconsistent weights) and shows his glove/headgear solutions.
- •Motivation: reduce training injuries, improve safety, and help fighters arrive healthy to fight night
- •UFC glove critique: ‘gardening glove’ design, forearm fatigue, finger pressure, eye-poke incentives
- •Onyx glove design: internal strapping, better fist alignment, improved knuckle protection
- •Technology foam vs. EVA foam demo (impact absorption) and lightweight grappling-friendly headgear
- •Industry obstacles: testing standards, ownership/rights negotiations, and organizational inertia
