JRE MMA Show #96 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Boom! Trainer of the…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Boom! Trainer of the year, Trevor Whitman. You might be. You might get it.

   2. TWTrevor Wittman0:05

      We'll see. I mean, I- I- I don't have any-

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      It's ... You definitely-

   4. JGJustin Gaethje0:06

      You definitely have a short list.

   5. TWTrevor Wittman0:08

      I, I got, I got not that many athletes, so that's where ... You know, when I won it two years ago, that was, uh, unique to me, 'cause I went in there like, "Man, I don't deserve this." I, I remember having 40 athletes and the guys who have all these athletes, that's putting in so much time. I had three athletes at the time, so that was cool. But again, I think, uh, performing and doing good as a coach is one thing, but also, you know, putting in that full time. When you're running a gym and having 40 athletes, it's a nonstop, 60 hours. You're not doing anything with your children and-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:38

      Yeah.

   7. TWTrevor Wittman0:38

      ... that's, that's, uh ... But then when I seen the, the athletes talking on the screen and talking about, you know, Rose talking about changing the world, but just being good people, then I was like, "Oh, yeah." And I remember re- repeating to myself when I went through a tough time and lost all my athletes, we kind of had to split. And it all happened through when Nate Marquardt had that issue with the, the TRT.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:57

      Mm.

   9. TWTrevor Wittman0:58

      And, uh, you know, I had talked about the gray area, you know. If you're gonna allow someone to do that, you have that space. Like, he-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Yeah.

   11. TWTrevor Wittman1:05

       ... instantly got shunned for it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Right.

   13. TWTrevor Wittman1:06

       And he, he's got children. He had a new kid on the way, and I was just like, "Man, he got shunned." We knew about it prior and I was just like, "They said you could do it, but they don't know how to test the levels." And that situation turned into a bigger situation, and then I ended up starting over with athletes. And I remember repeating to myself, "You're the best coach in the world. No one's better." And I remember just repeating that. I had a new gym that was big, 13,000 square feet. I was paying it by myself.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Wow.

   15. TWTrevor Wittman1:31

       But I just kept saying it over and over and over, and then when I was sitting there that night, I was looking at, looking at him. And we won like seven awards that night with just the three of us. And I was like, "Man, that's, that's super cool." That's when it kind of hit and I was like, "Oh, man."

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:43

       There's something to be said for having a small stable of athletes versus like, there's some of these super gyms where a lot of guys wind up complaining. A lot of guys wind up saying they don't get the attention they deserve. They, they feel like they're staggering or they're, they're, they're stagnant there. And it's just, it's not ... I don't think it's the right way.

   17. TWTrevor Wittman2:02

       It's so different.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       When you've got a-

   19. TWTrevor Wittman2:03

       I'll tell you what. Take-

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       I mean-

   21. TWTrevor Wittman2:05

       Takes me back to my boxing days. I only had three or four athletes at the most and I was running with them and, and had them at my house and I was feeding them and they were at my house for camp. And it was one on one for everything. For the psyche. I mean, that's, that's such an important part when it comes to fighting outside of Justin Gaethje. Justin Gaethje, I learned from this guy when it comes to mental. Like, he's just ingrained with like the strongest mental, and I love that part. Like, that's why I love working with Rose, 'cause the mental part. But one on one is key.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       Mm-hmm.

   23. TWTrevor Wittman2:34

       That is key to being able to, to, to be with your athletes. And I'll tell you, it's like a hobby again. It ain't like a job. It's like passion, you know? And you, you, you never really wanna do it for the money. You need to pay your bills, but the key is, it's the athlete. It's about them.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       When-

   25. JGJustin Gaethje2:49

       I-

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       Justin, when you came to Trevor, like, how much striking experience did you have?

   27. JGJustin Gaethje2:54

       Zero. Zero.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       That's hilarious.

   29. JGJustin Gaethje2:55

       Yeah, no, I was, uh ... I had five amateur fights. I'd never, never been in a street fight, not a one-on-one street fight, a couple big brawls. Um, never thrown a punch, never been punched, and I got hit hard in my fifth fight, almost got knocked out. I was like, "Man, I need to find ... If I'm gonna do this, I need to find a coach."

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       So you (laughs) so you had five amateur MMA fights with zero striking training?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   This is the April…

   1. JGJustin Gaethje15:00

      performed and I would've performed. And I think-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      This is the April 18th fight?

   3. JGJustin Gaethje15:02

      ... this is the April 18th... I think I would've performed, uh, and I think-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JGJustin Gaethje15:05

      ... I would've won. I wouldn't have been as confident. So I was, I was terrified. When they called me that night, I was terrified. I couldn't sleep. The next day I woke up terrified, um, 'cause I knew, I knew that this is not what I do. This is not how I do it. This is a hu-... But-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Because you weren't fully prepared.

   7. JGJustin Gaethje15:19

      'Cause there's no way to fully prepare in that amount of time.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Right.

   9. JGJustin Gaethje15:23

      In my mind, in my mind.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:24

       Right.

   11. JGJustin Gaethje15:24

       When I go in there and do, I have to get my mind in a very, very special place.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       How much of it is that and how much of it is physical?

   13. JGJustin Gaethje15:30

       You know, like...

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       Physically, how prepared, how far-

   15. JGJustin Gaethje15:31

       I don't know. I don't as-... I don't-

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:33

       ... prepared were you to be?

   17. JGJustin Gaethje15:33

       ... I don't have that question. I don't answer that qu-... I can't answer that question for you.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:36

       But here's the question-

   19. JGJustin Gaethje15:37

       'Cause I don't process that.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       But I'm-

   21. JGJustin Gaethje15:38

       That's not something I ever process.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       This, what I'm saying in this way though, is what, uh, how physically prepared were you? Were you in training?

   23. JGJustin Gaethje15:44

       Yeah, so I was just, um, I was, I was my main, I was the main training partner for Neil Magny-

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       Oh, okay.

   25. JGJustin Gaethje15:50

       ... Ogden Hubbard when they fought in Vegas.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       Oh, okay.

   27. JGJustin Gaethje15:52

       Um, I was, I was in shape. I was in shape. Um-

   28. TWTrevor Wittman15:56

       So the second fight, let me jump in here. The second fight I thought was a way better, way better, uh, place to be from a conditioning standpoint because he was already in shape prior to that first one. We just went two weeks so hard, like, we were trying to get, get his body in, in shape quick. And that's ha-... That's a hard thing to do. Then he went and gained 12 pounds, which in t-... We were four weeks out at that point, which is perfect 'cause the fourth week out, I always pull back on and let their body recover 'cause your third and your second week are our peak weeks. Those are the weeks that we need to really hit, hit, hit prime, and, and really push hard. And it was perfect fit. I'm like, "Dude, we take this time off, you going up in heat, and now you're, you're ready to go again." You, you got that little, that little, uh, uh, fire back in your body 'cause you're able to eat whatever you want. And I thought it was perfect timing from how I train my athletes from a conditioning standpoint. And I actually had to talk him into that one. I was like, "This is even better." Like, "You... This is perfect for you for a five-round fight."

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       So from your perspective, it's like he had a chance to recover, eat all that food, take a little break.

   30. TWTrevor Wittman16:54

       Yep.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   But you said you…

   1. JGJustin Gaethje30:00

      and work my hardest. Like, that's all it is every day for me. I didn't, I didn't make a decision. I think it was a choice, obviously. You know, I-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      But you said you wanted to be a champion now. Instead of being the most exciting fighter, you wanted to be a champion.

   3. JGJustin Gaethje30:10

      Yes. Yes. Well, it was that-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      So, what was that shift?

   5. JGJustin Gaethje30:12

      That was ... So, I mean, I ... So, I always wanted to be a champion. I thought I could be a champion. I was undefeated.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Right.

   7. JGJustin Gaethje30:19

      I thought I could be a champion w- with the style that I was fighting because I was not losing. I had seven amateur fights, 18 professional fights, 25 fights in a row. I had no idea-

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:30

      When-

   9. JGJustin Gaethje30:30

      ... that, uh, that I needed to change, that ...I was just going in there and I was breaking people. I was like, "I can't, I can't not break anybody. I'm gonna go in there and break everybody," 'cause everybody's breaking, you know, just for some reason.

   10. TWTrevor Wittman30:41

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JGJustin Gaethje30:41

       Um, and then when I lost to Eddie and Dustin, or (laughs) Eddie and, yeah, Eddie and Dustin, it was the s- I, I watched them many times, and then I understood that it was the same mistake, you know. Um, you can't get hit. I was winning. I thought I was winning those fights. Judge's scorecards maybe don't resemble that, but I thought I was winning those fights. Um, the night after I fought Dustin Poirier, I went out and took 200 pictures with all my fans at the bar. Um, he was, you know, in the hospital probably, or guarantee he wasn't on his feet because he didn't walk for a month. Um, so I just understood that no matter how bad you cause damage, if they don't go down and they land that shot, then, you know, it, it all goes away. And I got paid half of my money. I didn't understand. I had never got paid half of my money, ever.

   12. TWTrevor Wittman31:30

       Oh, you didn't-

   13. JGJustin Gaethje31:31

       I had never-

   14. TWTrevor Wittman31:31

       Did you know?

   15. JGJustin Gaethje31:32

       I knew.

   16. TWTrevor Wittman31:32

       Or did you not think about it?

   17. JGJustin Gaethje31:33

       I knew, but I never thought about that shit 'cause-

   18. TWTrevor Wittman31:35

       I don't like that.

   19. JGJustin Gaethje31:36

       No. No, it's tough.

   20. TWTrevor Wittman31:37

       It's, it's tough.

   21. JGJustin Gaethje31:37

       For people like me, I, I don't st-

   22. TWTrevor Wittman31:39

       It's-

   23. JGJustin Gaethje31:39

       I wouldn't argue for the whole roster, and there's very few like me, so. But I'm gonna go to war for myself when it comes to that 'cause I deserve it.

   24. TWTrevor Wittman31:46

       You're gonna fight your hardest no matter what you're saying.

   25. JGJustin Gaethje31:48

       I don't-

   26. TWTrevor Wittman31:48

       And you don't need that bonus, the win bonus, to motivate.

   27. JGJustin Gaethje31:51

       Yeah, you're not gonna incentivize me to win-

   28. TWTrevor Wittman31:52

       Yeah.

   29. JGJustin Gaethje31:52

       ... to save my, to, to save my own life.

   30. TWTrevor Wittman31:54

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 59:19

   (laughs) …

   1. TWTrevor Wittman45:00

      You... You need work up, man?

   2. JGJustin Gaethje45:03

      (laughs)

   3. TWTrevor Wittman45:03

      Yeah, you wanna-

   4. JGJustin Gaethje45:04

      I gotta find a girl first.

   5. TWTrevor Wittman45:06

      Protect your jewels.

   6. JGJustin Gaethje45:06

      It's the first part of the equation.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Yeah, but don't find a girl right now, 'cause that fucks up more fighters than anything. The wrong girl?

   8. TWTrevor Wittman45:12

      I won't pick the wrong one.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      I'm sure you won't. But sometimes you don't think you're picking the wrong one.

   10. TWTrevor Wittman45:16

       That's true.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       You think you're picking the right one and then, then they fucking take their mask off.

   12. JGJustin Gaethje45:19

       They're pretty, they're pretty tricky.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:20

       Oh, they're so tricky, some of them. Some of them aren't tricky at all.

   14. TWTrevor Wittman45:24

       Yeah. I, I tell you, I was done. I found my wife in my best friend. Uh, uh, I tell you, she was the key to, I'd say, all my success. She was, uh, someone who supported everything I did, which was so different. And again, having that backbone and having someone to support you is key. You gotta have the people that are there for you. When I have the day where I feel weak and I'm like, "Oh man, I really just don't wanna do this," she's like, "Get up and do this." Like, "You got this." And then there are days where she needed to pull me back a little bit and it's just... Having that balance is key.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Yes.

   16. TWTrevor Wittman45:50

       But in this industry, when it comes to, to athletes and especially the level that you're at, it is a scary thing. I've seen it change-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       We've seen it.

   18. TWTrevor Wittman45:56

       ... so many people. And it's not just the women, it's outside influences. It's, uh, it's, it's...

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       Yeah.

   20. TWTrevor Wittman46:00

       This is one thing that I love about this guy, is he is the same dude from day one. And I've had so many athletes just become something different, you know? They get their shell on-

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       Yes, mm-hmm.

   22. TWTrevor Wittman46:10

       ... and they just become different. And he's just a grounded dude. I call him a yes man because every person that knows him is like, "Hey, man, come over my house to dinner," and he just can't say no. He's like, "All right, cool, I'll be there. What do you need me to bring you? Things."

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       That's a good kind of yes man.

   24. TWTrevor Wittman46:22

       It's great. It's just a great, great thing. Like, he's so good to his family. He's so good to all of his friends. He is, uh, uh, very unique. Very unique. And it's always the nice dudes. Like, you see them from the outside, you look, you think, "Hey, man, meathead," you know. Like, he's one of the most intelligent four people type of fighters. And some of the nicest guys are the ones that perform the best. They're the ones that's gonna help a lady across the street.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       Right.

   26. TWTrevor Wittman46:46

       But they fight for something.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:48

       I think there's-

   28. TWTrevor Wittman46:48

       And for them that's unique.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       ... there's something to that because I think guys who don't have the burden of guilt, like, laying on their head that they're an asshole. Like, even if you... Unless you're a sociopath, if you act like a piece of shit, no matter how much you justify it, you're like, "I'm the fucking man, who gives a shit?" In the back of your head you've got to know you're a piece of shit.

   30. JGJustin Gaethje47:05

       False confidence.

Episode duration: 2:46:25