Skip to content
Lenny's PodcastLenny's Podcast

How to drive word of mouth | Nilan Peiris (CPO of Wise)

Nilan Peiris is Chief Product Officer at Wise, one of the fastest-growing (and profitable) tech companies in the world. Wise allows anyone to send money in more than 60 currencies to over 160 countries at low cost, and throughout its history has grown primarily through word of mouth. In today’s episode, we discuss: • Tactical advice on driving word of mouth (WOM) • Strategies for measuring WOM • How NPS surveys helped Wise determine their growth and product strategy • How Wise incentivizes teams to do the hard things • The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals • How Wise structures its product and growth teams — Brought to you by Pendo—The all-in-one platform for product-led companies building breakthrough digital experiences: https://www.pendo.io/lenny | Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies: https://www.wix.com/studio?utm_source=Lennyspodcast&utm_medium=Podcastad&utm_campaign=SL | Masterworks—Invest in blue-chip art: https://www.masterworks.art/lenny Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-drive-word-of-mouth-nilan Where to find Nilan Peiris: • Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/nilanp • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nilanpeiris/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Nilan’s background (03:27) A brief overview of Wise (06:11) How word of mouth is measured (07:56) Why Wise leaned into WOM (10:21) Why Wise built their WOM motion using the NPS method (16:13) How WOM solves trust problems (18:55) How to get to 9 or 10 on the NPS scale (20:51) Determining what will wow users (21:31) Common missteps companies make when trying to drive WOM (23:24) Using the “working backward” method at Airbnb (25:45) How Wise is able to offer drastically lower money transfer fees (27:51) The three costs associated with moving money (32:02) Rational vs. irrational reasons behind recommendations (34:11) Prioritizing customer happiness (38:14) How Wise approaches experimentation (46:11) Thoughts on performance reviews and general analysis (48:06) How Wise provides a 10x better banking experience (51:57) Advice on how to approach word-of-mouth marketing (53:47) Building a culture of doing hard things (55:59) The macrostructure of international banking and where Wise fits in (57:54) How Wise solves for local regulations in their onboarding flow (1:01:49) How Wise structures teams (1:03:26) The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals (1:08:01) Nilan’s philanthropic endeavors (1:09:13) Lightning round Referenced: • Wise: https://wise.com/us/ • Henry Chen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henry-h-chen/ • About NPS: https://www.productboard.com/blog/the-power-of-nps-in-your-product-strategy/ • How Snow White helped Airbnb prove that storytelling is the most important skill in design: https://uxdesign.cc/how-airbnb-proved-that-storytelling-is-the-most-important-skill-in-design-15d04ac71039 • Seth Godin: This Is How You Create a Remarkable Product: https://www.businessinsider.com/seth-godin-this-is-how-you-create-a-remarkable-product-2012-10 • Discover the Spotify model: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/agile-at-scale/spotify • Beam: https://beam.org/ • Affinity: https://affinityghana.com/ • Crime and Punishment: https://www.amazon.com/Crime-Punishment-Volokhonsky-Translation-Classics/dp/0679734503 • Midnight’s Children: https://www.amazon.com/Midnights-Children-Modern-Library-Novels/dp/0812976533 • Barbie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1517268/ • Arc browser: https://arc.net/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Nilan PeirisguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Sep 23, 20231h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Wise CPO Reveals Systematic Playbook For Explosive Word-of-Mouth Growth

  1. Wise CPO Nilan Peiris explains how Wise built a business where roughly 70% of new customers arrive via word of mouth, powered by a product that is radically cheaper, faster, and easier than alternatives. He details how they use NPS not just as a vanity metric but as a predictive driver of virality, tying recommendation behavior directly to product quality and specific experience pillars. Nilan contrasts incremental optimization with a ‘10x better’ mindset, sharing examples like instant transfers, ultra-low pricing, eKYC in Singapore, and central bank integrations that took years but created remarkable experiences. He also walks through Wise’s product and org design, how they think about experiments vs. conviction, and subtle product-marketing techniques that make customers truly perceive the value they’re getting—thus motivating them to share.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Treat NPS as a growth lever, not just a satisfaction metric.

Wise correlated referral behavior with NPS and found that moving customers from 6→7–8→9–10 roughly doubled how many people they told at each step. That insight led them to orient product work around increasing NPS because it increases the viral coefficient of every cohort, compounding over time.

Identify a few product pillars that must be 10x better than alternatives.

From qualitative NPS comments, Wise distilled three pillars that drive advocacy—price, speed, and ease of use. They learned that being marginally better (e.g., 5.9% vs 6%) wins usage but not recommendation; only when they were 8–10x cheaper and meaningfully faster did customers start evangelizing.

Work backward from the theoretical ideal, then commit to hard, multi‑year bets.

Instead of incremental improvements, Wise asks, “What is the theoretical minimum price and maximum speed?” and then invests years into solving core infrastructure (e.g., central bank accounts, instant transfers, eKYC) to get as close as possible. These ‘impossible’ feats are what truly “blow users’ socks off” and generate organic word of mouth.

Align pricing with actual cost drivers and reinvest efficiency into lower prices.

Wise mapped every operational, risk, and partner cost at a transaction level, charged high-cost segments more, and passed savings to everyone else. This cost-transparency plus constant engineering to reduce people-costs, risk costs, and partner fees allowed them to sustainably drop average prices from ~0.5% to ~0.35% and unlock new, more price-sensitive segments.

Use product marketing to close the gap between actual and perceived value.

Customers often didn’t realize how much they saved or how fast transfers were. Wise added clear comparison graphs and celebratory instant-transfer UX, then put a share/referral hook right there; this alone reportedly tripled sharing. Making the invisible value visible can be as powerful as improving the underlying product.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

To get to recommendation, you've got to blow your users' socks off. You have to give them an experience they didn't know was previously possible.

Nilan Peiris

If you move conversion rate by 10%, you get a one‑off hit. If you move NPS from 30% to 50%, you increase the viral coefficient of your customer base.

Nilan Peiris

We only got the advocacy when we were eight to ten times cheaper. Customers would use us if we were a bit cheaper, but they wouldn’t talk about us.

Nilan Peiris

You can’t split‑test your way to love.

Nilan Peiris

The thing that defines success is the speed at which you pick yourself up.

Nilan Peiris

Why Wise bet on word of mouth as a primary growth channelUsing NPS as a driver and diagnostic for recommendationsDefining and executing on 10x product pillars: price, speed, ease-of-useOrganizational structure for global/local product teams in a regulated fintechBalancing experimentation with conviction-led product developmentDesigning referral programs and in-product messaging that amplify sharingMission, authenticity, and emotion as multipliers on rational product value

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome