How to drive word of mouth | Nilan Peiris (CPO of Wise)

ℹ️ EPISODE INFO

Released

September 24, 2023

Duration

1h 16m

Channel

Lenny's Podcast

Watch on YouTube

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📝 EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Nilan Peiris is Chief Product Officer at Wise, one of the fastest-growing (and profitable) tech companies in the world. Wise allows anyone to send money in more than 60 currencies to over 160 countries at low cost, and throughout its history has grown primarily through word of mouth. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Tactical advice on driving word of mouth (WOM)
• Strategies for measuring WOM
• How NPS surveys helped Wise determine their growth and product strategy
• How Wise incentivizes teams to do the hard things
• The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals
• How Wise structures its product and growth teams

— Brought to you by Pendo—The all-in-one platform for product-led companies building breakthrough digital experiences: https://www.pendo.io/lenny | Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies: https://www.wix.com/studio?utm_source=Lennyspodcast&utm_medium=Podcastad&utm_campaign=SL | Masterworks—Invest in blue-chip art: https://www.masterworks.art/lenny Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-drive-word-of-mouth-nilan Where to find Nilan Peiris:

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/nilanp
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nilanpeiris/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Nilan’s background (03:27) A brief overview of Wise (06:11) How word of mouth is measured (07:56) Why Wise leaned into WOM (10:21) Why Wise built their WOM motion using the NPS method (16:13) How WOM solves trust problems (18:55) How to get to 9 or 10 on the NPS scale (20:51) Determining what will wow users (21:31) Common missteps companies make when trying to drive WOM (23:24) Using the “working backward” method at Airbnb (25:45) How Wise is able to offer drastically lower money transfer fees (27:51) The three costs associated with moving money (32:02) Rational vs. irrational reasons behind recommendations (34:11) Prioritizing customer happiness (38:14) How Wise approaches experimentation (46:11) Thoughts on performance reviews and general analysis (48:06) How Wise provides a 10x better banking experience (51:57) Advice on how to approach word-of-mouth marketing (53:47) Building a culture of doing hard things (55:59) The macrostructure of international banking and where Wise fits in (57:54) How Wise solves for local regulations in their onboarding flow (1:01:49) How Wise structures teams (1:03:26) The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals (1:08:01) Nilan’s philanthropic endeavors (1:09:13) Lightning round Referenced:

• Wise: https://wise.com/us/
• Henry Chen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henry-h-chen/
• About NPS: https://www.productboard.com/blog/the-power-of-nps-in-your-product-strategy/
• How Snow White helped Airbnb prove that storytelling is the most important skill in design: https://uxdesign.cc/how-airbnb-proved-that-storytelling-is-the-most-important-skill-in-design-15d04ac71039
• Seth Godin: This Is How You Create a Remarkable Product: https://www.businessinsider.com/seth-godin-this-is-how-you-create-a-remarkable-product-2012-10
• Discover the Spotify model: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/agile-at-scale/spotify
• Beam: https://beam.org/
• Affinity: https://affinityghana.com/
• Crime and Punishment: https://www.amazon.com/Crime-Punishment-Volokhonsky-Translation-Classics/dp/0679734503
• Midnight’s Children: https://www.amazon.com/Midnights-Children-Modern-Library-Novels/dp/0812976533
• Barbie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1517268/
• Arc browser: https://arc.net/

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

🎤 SPEAKERS

• Nilan Peiris

  guest

• Lenny Rachitsky

  host

🧾 EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, featuring Nilan Peiris and Lenny Rachitsky, How to drive word of mouth | Nilan Peiris (CPO of Wise) explores wise CPO Reveals Systematic Playbook For Explosive Word-of-Mouth Growth Wise CPO Nilan Peiris explains how Wise built a business where roughly 70% of new customers arrive via word of mouth, powered by a product that is radically cheaper, faster, and easier than alternatives. He details how they use NPS not just as a vanity metric but as a predictive driver of virality, tying recommendation behavior directly to product quality and specific experience pillars. Nilan contrasts incremental optimization with a ‘10x better’ mindset, sharing examples like instant transfers, ultra-low pricing, eKYC in Singapore, and central bank integrations that took years but created remarkable experiences. He also walks through Wise’s product and org design, how they think about experiments vs. conviction, and subtle product-marketing techniques that make customers truly perceive the value they’re getting—thus motivating them to share.

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