Lenny's PodcastEli Schwartz: Why AI is killing top-of-funnel SEO content
Through Zapier integration and Tinder local pages, Eli Schwartz: reframes SEO as a product job, where rankings without conversions are vanity metrics.
Episode Details
EPISODE INFO
- Released
- September 19, 2024
- Duration
- 1h 55m
- Channel
- Lenny's Podcast
- Watch on YouTube
- ▶ Open ↗
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Eli Schwartz is a leading SEO consultant and the author of Product-Led SEO. He has worked with industry giants like Zapier, Tinder, Coinbase, Quora, LinkedIn, and WordPress to build and execute global SEO strategies that significantly enhanced their organic visibility at scale. In our conversation, Eli shares:
- How AI and LLMs are reshaping the SEO landscape
- Why you should be focused on mid-funnel SEO strategies
- How to determine if SEO is the right approach for your business
- Why SEO should be treated as a product rather than just a marketing tactic
- SEO myths
- The future of search in light of recent legal challenges faced by Google
- Much more
— Brought to you by:
- Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application: https://www.pendo.io/lenny
- Brave Search—A smarter way to search: https://brave.com/lenny
- OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny
Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz Where to find Eli Schwartz:
- X: https://x.com/5le
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/
- Website: https://www.elischwartz.co/
- Newsletter: https://www.productledseo.com/
Where to find Lenny:
- Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
- X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Eli’s background (02:10) The impact of AI on SEO strategies (11:34) Understanding search intent (15:30) Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data (20:19) Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies (22:57) Case studies (31:29) Steps for getting started with SEO (35:20) Examples of when not to focus on SEO (39:17) Evaluating SEO investment (44:00) Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels (46:23) SEO conversion metrics and expectations (52:09) Understanding the time horizon of SEO (59:37) The role of AI in content creation (01:05:26) AI overviews (01:07:40) Brand building and SEO (01:09:51) Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies (01:16:06) Insights from the Google antitrust verdict (01:20:36) Google’s dominance in search (01:23:52) The future of SEO and user choice (01:26:28) SEO myths debunked (01:36:58) Forecasting SEO success (01:44:18) The need for SEO expertise (01:46:26) Lightning round and closing thoughts Referenced:
- Product-Led SEO: The Why Behind Building Your Organic Growth Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Led-SEO-Building-Organic-Strategy/dp/1544519567
- SurveyMonkey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/
- Google AI: https://ai.google/
- Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/
- Claude: https://claude.ai/
- G2: https://www.g2.com/
- Riverside: https://riverside.fm/
- Zapier: https://zapier.com/
- Wade Foster on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wadefoster/
- Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/
- Tinder: https://tinder.com/
- Udi Milo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udimilo/
- The ultimate guide to SEO | Ethan Smith (Graphite): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-seo-ethan-smith
- Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/
- Vanta: https://www.vanta.com
- Quora: https://www.quora.com/
- Canva: https://www.canva.com
- Notion: https://www.notion.so/
- Red Ventures: https://www.redventures.com/
- CNet: https://www.cnet.com/
- Noah Smith on X: https://x.com/noahpinion
- Noahpinion newsletter: https://www.noahpinion.blog/
- Leveraging growth advisors, hiring well, mastering SEO, and honing your craft | Luc Levesque (Shopify, Meta, TripAdvisor): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-growth-advisors-hiring
- Tripadvisor: https://www.tripadvisor.com/
- Zillow: https://www.zillow.com/
- Capterra: https://www.capterra.com/
- U.S. v. Google: all the news from the search antitrust showdown: https://www.theverge.com/23869483/us-v-google-search-antitrust-case-updates
- Bing: https://www.bing.com/
- Neeva: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neeva
- Google’s tweet about the antitrust case: https://x.com/Google_Comms/status/1820558371285508123
- Mailbag: Google and Antitrust Festivus, Credit Card Dominance, AI for Movies and Writing, Shohei’s Contract | Sharp Tech with Ben Thompson: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/mailbag-google-and-antitrust-festivus-credit-card/id1646152812?i=1000638448429
- DuckDuckGo: https://duckduckgo.com/
- Kayak: https://www.kayak.com/
- Expedia: https://www.expedia.com/
- Faire: https://www.faire.com/
- Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/
- WordPress: https://wordpress.com/
- Semrush: https://www.semrush.com/
- Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/
- Similarweb: https://www.similarweb.com/
...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
SPEAKERS
Lenny Rachitsky
hostEli Schwartz
guestNarrator
otherGuest advertiser (OneSchema representative)
guest
EPISODE SUMMARY
In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, featuring Lenny Rachitsky and Eli Schwartz, Eli Schwartz: Why AI is killing top-of-funnel SEO content explores aI reshapes SEO: shift from keyword content to product journeys Eli Schwartz argues that generative AI and Google’s AI Overviews are killing old-school, top-of-funnel, keyword-and-blog-post SEO, but not SEO itself. Discovery-style queries and generic informational content are increasingly answered directly in search, while mid- and bottom-funnel, high-intent searches remain a major opportunity.
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