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What sets great teams apart | Lane Shackleton (CPO of Coda)

Lane Shackleton is CPO of Coda, where he’s been leading the product and design team for over eight years. Lane started his career as an Alaskan climbing guide and then as a manual reviewer of AdWords ads before becoming a product specialist at Google and later a Group PM at YouTube. He also writes a weekly newsletter with insights and rituals for PMs, product teams, and startups. In today’s conversation, we discuss: • Principles that set great PMs apart • Rituals of great product teams • The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters • “Two-way write-up” • The story of how skippable YouTube ads were born and lessons learned • How to gauge personal career growth • “Tim Ferriss Day” and its impact on Coda’s history • How Lane bootstrapped his way to CPO from the bottom of the tech ladder — Brought to you by Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny | Ezra—The leading full-body cancer screening company: https://www.ezra.com/lenny Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/what-sets-great-teams-apart-lane-shackleton-cpo-of-coda/ Where to find Lane Shackleton: • X: https://twitter.com/lshackleton • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laneshackleton • Substack: https://lane.substack.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Lane’s background (04:03) Working as a guide in Alaska (07:32) Parallels between guiding and building software (09:12) Why Lane started studying and writing about product teams (12:49) How Lane came up with the career ladder and guiding principles (14:10) The five levels Coda’s career ladder (16:30) Principles of great product managers (21:06) The beginner’s-mind ritual at Coda (24:05) Two rituals: “cathedrals not bricks” and “proactive not reactive” (27:46) How to develop your own guiding principles (31:17) Learning from your “oh shit” moments (36:03) Rituals from great product teams: HubSpot’s FlashTags (42:15) Rituals from great product teams: Coda’s Catalyst (47:01) Implementing rituals from other companies (49:48) How to navigate changing vs. sticking with current rituals (53:02) “Tag up” and why one-on-one meetings are harmful  (55:27) Lane’s handbook on strategy and rituals (57:10) How skippable ads came about on YouTube    (1:01:46) Lane’s path to CPO (1:07:02) Advice for aspiring PMs (1:10:53) Tim Ferriss Day at Coda (1:13:24) Using two-way write-ups  (1:19:30) The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters (1:21:41) Lightning round Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Lane ShackletonguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Oct 1, 20231h 29mWatch on YouTube ↗

Episode Details

EPISODE INFO

Released
October 1, 2023
Duration
1h 29m
Channel
Lenny's Podcast
Watch on YouTube
▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Lane Shackleton is CPO of Coda, where he’s been leading the product and design team for over eight years. Lane started his career as an Alaskan climbing guide and then as a manual reviewer of AdWords ads before becoming a product specialist at Google and later a Group PM at YouTube. He also writes a weekly newsletter with insights and rituals for PMs, product teams, and startups. In today’s conversation, we discuss:

  • Principles that set great PMs apart
  • Rituals of great product teams
  • The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters
  • “Two-way write-up”
  • The story of how skippable YouTube ads were born and lessons learned
  • How to gauge personal career growth
  • “Tim Ferriss Day” and its impact on Coda’s history
  • How Lane bootstrapped his way to CPO from the bottom of the tech ladder

— Brought to you by Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny | Ezra—The leading full-body cancer screening company: https://www.ezra.com/lenny Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/what-sets-great-teams-apart-lane-shackleton-cpo-of-coda/ Where to find Lane Shackleton:

Where to find Lenny:

In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Lane’s background (04:03) Working as a guide in Alaska (07:32) Parallels between guiding and building software (09:12) Why Lane started studying and writing about product teams (12:49) How Lane came up with the career ladder and guiding principles (14:10) The five levels Coda’s career ladder (16:30) Principles of great product managers (21:06) The beginner’s-mind ritual at Coda (24:05) Two rituals: “cathedrals not bricks” and “proactive not reactive” (27:46) How to develop your own guiding principles (31:17) Learning from your “oh shit” moments (36:03) Rituals from great product teams: HubSpot’s FlashTags (42:15) Rituals from great product teams: Coda’s Catalyst (47:01) Implementing rituals from other companies (49:48) How to navigate changing vs. sticking with current rituals (53:02) “Tag up” and why one-on-one meetings are harmful (55:27) Lane’s handbook on strategy and rituals (57:10) How skippable ads came about on YouTube (1:01:46) Lane’s path to CPO (1:07:02) Advice for aspiring PMs (1:10:53) Tim Ferriss Day at Coda (1:13:24) Using two-way write-ups (1:19:30) The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters (1:21:41) Lightning round Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

SPEAKERS

  • Lane Shackleton

    guest

  • Lenny Rachitsky

    host

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, featuring Lane Shackleton and Lenny Rachitsky, What sets great teams apart | Lane Shackleton (CPO of Coda) explores lane Shackleton Reveals Principles and Rituals Behind Exceptional Product Teams Lane Shackleton, CPO of Coda and former YouTube PM, shares the principles and operating rituals he believes set great product managers and product teams apart. He frames the core PM job as turning ambiguity into clarity, then walks through concrete principles like focusing on systems over goals, building cathedrals not bricks, learning by making, and actively seeking “oh-shit” stretch moments.

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