Lenny's PodcastWhen to invest in new acquisition channels | Adam Grenier (Uber, MasterClass)
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 5:34
Adam Grenier’s career arc: agencies → Uber growth infrastructure → MasterClass marketing
Lenny and Adam walk through Adam’s background across advertising, high-growth startups, and major tech. Adam frames his career in phases and shares what he’s focused on now—advising, investing, and helping founders scale.
- •Career phases: agency world, then startup/growth roles, then advising/investing
- •Key roles: building Uber’s growth marketing infrastructure; VP roles at Lambda School and MasterClass
- •How Adam thinks about career transitions and embracing what’s next
- 5:34 – 9:41
Improv as a business superpower: “yes-and” and the gift of details
Adam explains how improv training translates into growth and leadership: embracing change, collaborating, and building ideas together. He highlights two core improv concepts—“yes-and” and adding specific details—to unlock better creativity and communication.
- •“Yes-and” as a collaboration mindset that prevents idea-killing
- •“Gift of details” makes ideas more actionable and expands possibility space
- •Why these skills matter for marketing messaging and positioning
- •Using improv to get comfortable with uncertainty and experimentation
- 9:41 – 13:18
Making “yes-and” real at work: cross-functional conflict, trust, and accountability
The conversation turns to how improv principles apply inside companies, especially when central teams and local teams disagree. Adam shares how acknowledging multiple truths (“both can be true”) builds rapport and accelerates progress.
- •Cross-functional work often fails due to denial/defensiveness
- •Accepting local vs. central perspectives reduces friction
- •Invite accountability: explicitly ask teams to call out non-“yes-and” behavior
- •Why improv classes are valuable even for non-performers
- 13:18 – 18:59
When to invest in a new acquisition channel: the 3-ingredient evaluation framework
Adam lays out his core framework for exploring emerging channels. The first ingredient is channel-customer-company fit: whether the channel’s strengths match customer needs and the company’s growth goals.
- •Evaluate overlap: customer needs × company goals × channel strengths
- •Example: Spotify aligns better with audio-first channels like Clubhouse than photo-first apps
- •Define the channel’s true strengths (e.g., influencer = contextual targeting; OTT = broad storytelling)
- •Common mistake: chasing what’s “hot” instead of what’s strategically aligned
- 18:59 – 24:18
Channel DNA: maturity, survivability risk, and monetization alignment
The second ingredient is “channel DNA”: where the platform sits in its lifecycle and how likely it is to change or disappear. Adam also emphasizes a less-discussed angle—understanding how the channel monetizes to create partnership advantage.
- •Early channels carry high risk: product changes fast, tracking may be weak, tactics can break
- •Beware over-investing in fragile mechanics (e.g., Facebook notification-era virality)
- •Monetization strategy matters: align your business with what the channel needs to prove
- •Case study: HotelTonight becoming an alpha partner for Facebook mobile ads by fitting Facebook’s goals
- 24:18 – 25:40
Company DNA: risk appetite, resourcing, and earning the right to experiment
The third ingredient is your company’s DNA—whether you can tolerate chaos and fund exploration without harming core growth. Adam argues most teams should first build a foundation in proven channels before taking big bets on emerging ones.
- •First-mover reality: tracking gaps, brand safety issues, operational pain
- •Assess staffing: can you dedicate owners without derailing core priorities?
- •Don’t skip fundamentals: usually prove Google/Facebook-type channels before riskier bets
- •Use channel mix and stage to determine how aggressive experimentation should be
- 25:40 – 30:17
How long to test a new channel: fishing for signal, not perfection
Adam gives practical guidance for experimentation timelines and what “success” looks like early. The goal is directional momentum and learning, generally within a quarter, with duration adjusted by creative/production costs and opportunity cost.
- •Aim to avoid tests bleeding beyond a quarter without clear directional improvement
- •Early phase is “fishing”: look for signal, not statistical certainty
- •Time depends on upfront investment (e.g., expensive video creative vs. lightweight tests)
- •Define success criteria per channel (e.g., room growth on Clubhouse vs. trackable conversions on TikTok)
- 30:17 – 36:51
Channels worth exploring: OTT, influencer marketing, VR—and TikTok’s new normal
Adam shares which areas he’s most intrigued by and why. He distinguishes truly “emerging” platforms from channels that are newly scalable due to better tooling, and explains where each fits best.
- •OTT/streaming TV: more trackable than traditional TV, strong for storytelling, often non-skippable
- •Influencer marketing: highly granular targeting, but operationally manual; tooling is improving
- •VR: interesting but mostly relevant if you have a VR-native product today
- •TikTok: now broadly established enough that many should treat it like a core channel, not a novelty
- 36:51 – 37:58
Influencer tooling and execution reality: platforms help, but the work is still manual
They zoom in on influencer operations and the current state of tooling. Adam describes all-in-one platforms for influencer discovery, CRM, measurement, and payments, while noting that relationship management remains the bottleneck.
- •Example tool used at MasterClass: Grin
- •Influencer platforms bundle discovery + CRM + measurement + payments
- •Execution remains relationship-heavy: outreach, negotiation, follow-ups
- •Tooling is improving, creating startup opportunities in the influencer-tech space
- 37:58 – 41:21
When to broaden your audience: crossing the chasm and redefining product-market fit
Adam discusses why expanding from early adopters to the mainstream is often harder than teams expect. He stresses that early adopters can be fundamentally different and that external market shifts can invalidate assumed product-market fit.
- •Early adopters ≠ mass market; you must map differences deliberately
- •Red flag: TAM and claimed PMF are based on inconsistent definitions
- •Example: Clubhouse may have broadened too quickly without stress-testing durability
- •In downturns or market shifts, assume PMF may have changed and re-validate before chasing new channels
- 41:21 – 49:37
What is a “Growth CMO”: merging marketing with product iteration
Adam defines the Growth CMO as a marketing leader built for product-driven companies—data-informed, iterative, and tightly coupled with product leadership. He explains why many traditional CMOs struggle in startups despite being world-class in their prior contexts.
- •Mismatch problem: traditional campaign/brand rhythms don’t fit rapid product iteration cycles
- •Growth CMO treats even brand as iterative and compounding, not one-off campaigns
- •Marketing and product must be “married at the hip” in product-led organizations
- •Avoid diluting marketing’s value by rebranding it as “growth” due to leadership misfit
- 49:37 – 51:33
How marketing leaders can evolve: learn product development and operate like agile teams
Adam argues most strong marketers can become Growth CMOs by adapting their operating system. The most direct path: learn agile product development and apply its cadence, measurement, and experimentation mindset to marketing.
- •Key skill gap is operational: running marketing like a product org with sprints and iteration
- •Recommendation: learn agile/product development; book: 'Hacking Marketing'
- •Use modern learning channels (e.g., Reforge, product-led growth courses)
- •Outcome: stronger collaboration with product and more effective compounding growth loops
- 51:33 – 55:38
Red flags in CMO hiring: chaos tolerance, hands-on execution, and knowing your T-shape
Adam shares what founders should look for when hiring senior marketing leaders, especially at earlier stages. He emphasizes comfort with chaos, willingness to get into the weeds, and clarity on a candidate’s strengths and blind spots.
- •Stage matters: at Series C or earlier, chaos tolerance is essential
- •Hands-on mindset: willing to write emails, dig into ad accounts, and problem-solve urgently
- •Use the T-shaped career lens: identify core strength plus breadth
- •Look for humility and self-awareness—knowing what they’re bad at and hiring for it
- 55:38 – 1:02:47
Burnout vs. depression: Adam’s experience and building a support system
Adam opens up about therapy, what he discovered about his deeper motivations, and how he learned to separate exhaustion from more persistent depression patterns. He also describes the power of widening support beyond a spouse/therapist to trusted friends.
- •Therapy started as “burnout tools” but surfaced deeper drivers (e.g., recognition needs)
- •Reframing work: work hard for the right reasons, with the right people, on the right problems
- •Build a trusted circle for transparent conversations; mutual vulnerability strengthens support
- •Use reflection to diagnose root causes (family health, career shape, stressors)
- 1:02:47 – 1:07:15
Tools and signals: meditation resources, benefits coverage, and spotting burnout early
They get practical about resources that help during hard periods—meditation apps, exercise/diet, and workplace benefits that can subsidize therapy. Adam also shares a key behavioral signal of burnout: a rapid drop in adaptability and curiosity.
- •Meditation learning approach: Waking Up; marketplace-style option: Aura
- •Lifestyle signals: snacking/eating patterns can indicate stress shifts
- •Check company benefits/healthcare for mental health support and therapist matching
- •Burnout sign: reduced adaptability—shifting from curiosity to cynicism and avoidance
- 1:07:15 – 1:09:50
What’s next for Adam: advising, investing, and “Me as a Service”
Adam closes by describing his current focus: helping founders through advising and increasing his investing activity. He shares how he’s thinking about finding the right long-term anchor while staying open to new opportunities.
- •Optimizing for what he’s good at and what he loves: working closely with entrepreneurs
- •Advising/coaching plus investing as complementary levers
- •Joined Andreessen Horowitz’s Scout Fund; increasing investing volume
- •How to reach him: Twitter and LinkedIn @akgrenier
