How to Become A BADASS At Making Money | Jen Sincero

Jen Sincero 0:00 The number one question I get at my talks is, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it, because you're killing off the person they love. I mean, think about that. Like, you're changing who you are, and they're comfortable with who you are, and they feel that's their reality too, is, is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.

Lewis Howes 0:25 I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? [laughs] Yeah. Please welcome Lewis Howes. And I wanted to start with, uh, asking you a question about money and talking about money for a moment because, because I feel like a lot of people are in fear around money right now. They're scared. They're uncertain of what's gonna happen with all these things in the world around money and inflation and crisis, and all these different things. I'm curious, with all of your research and all of your feedback from your audience with your book about money, what do you feel like is the number one thing that holds people back emotionally and mentally around believing that they are deserving of making the money they want?

Jen Sincero 1:09 About the deserving piece. Oh, wow. Um, well, first of all, I think that a lot of people think it's not okay. Like, there's a real morality around making money.

Lewis Howes 1:21 Really?

Jen Sincero 1:22 Because think about it, we really focus on greed, and when you desire money, it's not the same as being greedy. But I think that we combine those two things. And so of course, if you decide that you wanna make money, it's... You don't tell people. I remember, like, when I was on my path to, like, get rich, people were grossed out, you know?

Lewis Howes 1:42 Really?

Jen Sincero 1:43 It's not... I mean, I always compare it to, like, if I was like, "I'm gonna lose 100 pounds," people would like, "Go you." But you're like, "I'm gonna get rich," they're like, "You're disgusting."

Lewis Howes 1:51 Wow.

Jen Sincero 1:52 You know? So there is a real judgment around it.

Lewis Howes 1:54 Why is that? If someone's ambitious around making money and, and creating financial abundance for themselves-

Jen Sincero 1:59 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:59 ... why is that?

Jen Sincero 2:00 I think because there's an i- implied, um, morality piece where you're gonna do things that are really bad for everybody involved. Like, you're gonna... Money's the main goal, so you're g- you'll, you'll do anything to get rich. I think there is this really weird perception of that, and I do think that, you know, the news definitely focuses on all the evil that people do to make money. And so, I mean, you know, that you rarely hear about people giving lots of money away or doing-

Lewis Howes 2:27 Right

Jen Sincero 2:27 ... wonderful things with money.

Lewis Howes 2:28 Right.

Jen Sincero 2:28 It really is about how evil the rich are.

Lewis Howes 2:31 Yeah, it's, it's more rare to hear. People are giving, but you don't hear about it that much.

Jen Sincero 2:35 Yeah, not so much.

Lewis Howes 2:36 And it's also... Here's the interesting thing. Because we've also been taught to diminish our giving.

Jen Sincero 2:43 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 2:43 Like, to not talk about our giving.

Jen Sincero 2:44 Right.

Lewis Howes 2:45 To make it anonymous. Don't brag that you're giving. Where I actually have started to prescribe to maybe talk 50% of the time about what you're giving, and the other 50% of the time it doesn't have to be, you know, you telling the world about it. But I think when you say, "Here's what I'm giving," it inspires other people to be generous in giving as well.

Jen Sincero 3:02 Absolutely.

Lewis Howes 3:02 And it doesn't have to be only money, but it can be your time, your energy, your resources in other way. But I think sharing about it sometimes empowers other people to be more generous as well.

Jen Sincero 3:13 I agree, and it also takes away the stigma that you're an egomaniacal fat head and that you want, like, all the praise for being-

Lewis Howes 3:19 Right

Jen Sincero 3:19 ... such a good guy. But, um, a- and why not? Like, we talk about other good things we do. It's just money. You know, I've written about sex. I've studied religion. Money is by far the most loaded.

Lewis Howes 3:30 The most loaded.

Jen Sincero 3:31 Absolutely. It's the dirtiest topic.

Lewis Howes 3:33 Really?

Jen Sincero 3:34 I don't know why, and I don't... I, I really don't. I don't. It's interesting, though. Like, did your parents talk to you about money? You know, I grew up-

Lewis Howes 3:41 So a little bit.

Jen Sincero 3:42 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 3:42 A little bit, but, but there was stress around money-

Jen Sincero 3:45 Right

Lewis Howes 3:45 ... which caused it to feel more unsettling. So there was some conversation, but most of the conversation was stressful, or their relationship wasn't peaceful.

Jen Sincero 3:54 Right.

Lewis Howes 3:55 So I was like, "Okay, well, if they're not peaceful but they're working really hard and money is tied to working hard, then something must be off."

Jen Sincero 4:02 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 4:03 And it wasn't a money issue, it was just an emotional healing issue.

Jen Sincero 4:06 Right.

Lewis Howes 4:07 And that just happened to be mixed in with money.

Jen Sincero 4:09 Yes. And so in your little brain-

Lewis Howes 4:11 Yeah

Jen Sincero 4:11 ... you put it attached to money-

Lewis Howes 4:12 Exactly

Jen Sincero 4:12 ... makes stress. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 4:13 Exactly.

Jen Sincero 4:14 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 4:14 How... What was your perception of money before you started to make it versus when you started to make it?

Jen Sincero 4:20 Well, I grew up in a super WASPy household, so you know, we don't discuss money. Like, it's, you know, dirty and uncouth.

Lewis Howes 4:27 Mm.

Jen Sincero 4:28 Um, never learned anything about it at all. Uh, and-

Lewis Howes 4:32 No education around it.

Jen Sincero 4:33 Hell no. Oh my God, no. Like, nothing. And, um, and so when I... So I was very, um, of the mind that it wasn't cool to wanna make money. You know, the unholy dollar. Like, I was a rock and roller, so I was, like, more about the art.

Lewis Howes 4:50 Yes.

Jen Sincero 4:50 And, um-

Lewis Howes 4:51 You're not gonna sell yourself out.

Jen Sincero 4:52 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 4:53 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 4:53 Selling out, like, what a concept. Selling out basically means you're getting paid for doing what you love.

Lewis Howes 4:57 [laughs] Right.

Jen Sincero 4:57 Like, why is that so bad, right? And then the whole starving artist crap and all that stuff. Yeah, and that rich people sucked, and I was too cool to focus on money. I also believed I sucked at making it, which was the truth. Um, I also had a weird feeling that, like, I was... It was almost like a different species. It's almost like me... There's me, and then there's grown-ups, right? And I felt that way about money, too. Like, there's me, and there's people who actually make, like, real money and have big houses and fancy cars and, like, do stuff. Like, but I was, I was, like, the child version of that. You know, always sitting at the kid table financially. And so it was a total identity shift that I had to go through where it was, like, that I could open myself up to, like, being somebody who could receive that kind of wealth. It was a real big shift for me.

Lewis Howes 5:43 Do you think we have to go through an identity shift in order to see money differently and to be able to receive it differently?

Jen Sincero 5:50 I think you do. Absolutely. That's a really great way to go at it, yeah.

Lewis Howes 5:54 So what was your, you know, the key words around your identity with money when you didn't have much? Versus the keywords that you would speak about within yourself or what money is once you started to unlock more money.

Jen Sincero 6:08 Well, it wasn't necessarily around identity, my words, 'cause I did have two very serious mantras. Um, but there was a lot of visualizing myself with money and, like, I, I wrote about buying the Audi in You Are a Badass, and, like, I'm not the kind of person who drives an Audi. Are you kidding me? Like... And, like, almost feeling like this, the guy who is, like, test drove it with me, would be like, "Get outta here."

Lewis Howes 6:28 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 6:28 "I know who you are." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 6:30 You can't afford this out here.

Jen Sincero 6:31 Yeah, exactly. So, um, so but my mantra's really, like... And before I started making money, I said, "I can't afford it," to pretty much anything you could throw at me. My first words out of my mouth were, "I can't afford it." And I-

Lewis Howes 6:44 What are we doing when we're, we're saying that, whether it's true-

Jen Sincero 6:47 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 6:47 ... or not true?

Jen Sincero 6:49 We are buying into an identity as somebody who can't afford stuff. We are also proving it. You know, what you speak, you wanna prove, 'cause you wanna be right, and it is sort of the foundation of your reality. So when I say I can't afford it 100 times a day, I'm subconsciously pulling in proof, like, look at the car I'm driving. I'm living in an alley. Like, I make this much money a year. I'm, I'm building all the foundational blocks to prove that I can't afford it, and that becomes my reality. And then that becomes my, I like to call it familiarity zone, 'cause comfort zones are not comfortable.

Lewis Howes 7:23 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 7:23 Right? So, so then I'm just proving it over, and over, and over, and that becomes my reality. And then to shift out of that, um, literally means to obliterate your reality and your identity, right? So that's why-

Lewis Howes 7:38 It's like an explosion.

Jen Sincero 7:39 It is.

Lewis Howes 7:39 It's like you have to have a, like a death, an explosion, a, a bomb almost to go off.

Jen Sincero 7:44 It, it does, and it's killing off your old identity. And this is why... I'm gonna totally go off on a segue here, but this is why, like, the number one question I get at my talks is, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it, because, 'cause you're killing off the person they love.

Lewis Howes 8:01 Oh, man.

Jen Sincero 8:02 I mean, think about that. Like, you're changing who you are, and they're comfortable with who you are, and they feel that's their reality too, is, is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.

Lewis Howes 8:19 Wow.

Jen Sincero 8:20 So it's really a thing.

Lewis Howes 8:22 It's, uh, so interesting. I was, I was telling someone on my team this a few weeks ago, that in the different seasons of my life, from 18 until now, I have had all these amazing experiences, from school, to sports teams, to moving to new cities, to finding new groups and communities, and a lot of them I've outgrown in certain ways, or just transitioned out of. Maybe not outgrown, but just I've gone to do other things, and continue to try to evolve. I'm not saying I'm better than, but I've continued to try to evolve and let go of the old me, and, and some of them don't like it.

Jen Sincero 9:00 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:00 And I lose friends-

Jen Sincero 9:01 Totally

Lewis Howes 9:01 ... in the process of changing myself-

Jen Sincero 9:04 Yeah

Lewis Howes 9:04 ... reinventing myself, letting go of old behaviors and stepping into a different, you know, identity.

Jen Sincero 9:10 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:10 And it's not easy-

Jen Sincero 9:11 Yeah

Lewis Howes 9:11 ... to have communities that you love and people-

Jen Sincero 9:14 Totally

Lewis Howes 9:14 ... you are familiar with, and hanging out with, that support you, and you go to parties, and do whatever activities. And then all of a sudden they stop returning your calls.

Jen Sincero 9:21 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:22 And they stop texting you back. And you feel sad, hurt, you know, disappointed.

Jen Sincero 9:28 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:29 That you're trying to go somewhere, and they don't support that.

Jen Sincero 9:32 Right.

Lewis Howes 9:32 It's a scary time.

Jen Sincero 9:33 Yeah, it is. It's very lonely. That's why it's lonely at the top.

Lewis Howes 9:36 What, what suggestions do you give to people, then, who are shifting their identity, stepping into a new reality for themselves, and their friends don't like it, their family doesn't like it, their communities don't like it, and they're telling them to, "Hey, come back and hang out with us." What's, what do you say to them?

Jen Sincero 9:52 Well, first of all, really make the decision, are you gonna stay small and shrink just so that you can be around those people and make them comfortable? Or is your comfort more important and your growth more important? And also, it doesn't serve them either. Like, if you all stay at the same low level... 'Cause not everybody ditches you. There are some people that are just like, "Oh, my God, you inspire the crap out of me. I'm gonna do it, too."

Lewis Howes 10:14 It's true.

Jen Sincero 10:14 Right? So foc- it's all where you place your focus, right? And then also focus on who you're gonna meet now that you're getting big.

Lewis Howes 10:22 Right.

Jen Sincero 10:22 Right? Those exciting, inspiring people who are turned on by the same things you are, who are doing the same things you are. Like, it's all about where you put your focus.

Lewis Howes 10:30 And you can only... I mean, I really only have maybe five to seven close friends that I can actually spend meaningful time with, outside of my girlfriend, which I spend a lot of time with.

Jen Sincero 10:40 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 10:41 Outside of my team-

Jen Sincero 10:42 Yeah

Lewis Howes 10:42 ... which I'm spending time with during the day.

Jen Sincero 10:43 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 10:44 There's only so many nights and weekends-

Jen Sincero 10:45 Yeah

Lewis Howes 10:45 ... that I can spend quality time with people.

Jen Sincero 10:47 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 10:48 And you may need to open up space to invite in people that are at a, at a, I don't know, an awareness, or a support, or a level of thinking-

Jen Sincero 10:57 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 10:57 ... that you wanna be at as well.

Jen Sincero 10:58 Right.

Lewis Howes 10:59 Um, to, to create that time and connection with, so.

Jen Sincero 11:02 Right.

Lewis Howes 11:02 It's, it's scary, though.

Jen Sincero 11:05 If it's not scary, you're doing something wrong, though, right? [laughs]

Lewis Howes 11:07 That's true. [laughs] So how old were you when, when things started to shift psychologically, mentally, and emotionally?

Jen Sincero 11:15 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 11:15 And did you create a bomb? Was it more of a slow breakthrough for you in shifting this identity and this old skin?

Jen Sincero 11:22 Yeah. Yeah, I was 40. It was in my 40s.

Lewis Howes 11:25 Wow.

Jen Sincero 11:25 Yeah. You know, I really struggled and suffered for way too long. I mean, don't get me wrong, I had a fun life. Like, I was going on road trips, and I was in a band, and I was doing all the things I wanted to do, but financially, I was just so stuck and stubborn in my thinking, you know? And so that's actually how I finally picked up a self-help book. Like, I was... I, I mean, self-help was as ugly as making money was for me [laughs]

Lewis Howes 11:50 [laughs] Oh, yeah.

Jen Sincero 11:50 You know, I was always scared I'd die and they'd find them in my house 'cause I was too cool. And, uh, and that's when I was just like, "I have got to do something." And, um, that's when I started reading them, when I was sorta end of my 30s, beginning of my 40s. But it was in my 40s that I hired my first life coach. And went totally into debt for it, like put it on my credit card, called her and begged her for the money back. And luckily she was a great coach. She's like, "That could be the most important money you ever spend."

Lewis Howes 12:17 Wow.

Jen Sincero 12:17 And then I was like front row doing every single, single thing she said, and luckily she's an excellent coach and I tripled my income in like three months. And-

Lewis Howes 12:25 Wow

Jen Sincero 12:26 ... and then once things, once I saw myself do that, then I was like, "Okay, this works, this works." And then I was just a straight-A student just doing all the things.

Lewis Howes 12:34 You just kept showing up.

Jen Sincero 12:35 Oh, I kept doubling my rates and-

Lewis Howes 12:37 Wow

Jen Sincero 12:37 ... kept cold calling and doing all the stuff that I was just like... But, but it was so cool at the same time. Like, it was so fun because one of the things about being stuck is that life force that's going through all of us, right? Like, it was about the money, but it wasn't about... It was about the money. Money's great. I don't wanna... You know, I love having money. It's so... It's just freedom and options, right? Money is just freedom and options, and who does not want that all day long? But also it was about the life force that, that I knew I could be doing better. I... There was just so much Jen Sincero that wanted to like go-

Lewis Howes 13:12 Mm

Jen Sincero 13:13 ... shine basically, right? And, and I was blocking it off. I could just feel it, so it was just this clogging and this like frustration that once I hired the coach, like I was, I was in the game and I was, I was playing and I was taking risks and I was doing stuff I'd never done before. And it was so exciting. It was-

Lewis Howes 13:32 Wow

Jen Sincero 13:32 ... so alive, you know? It's a life force.

Lewis Howes 13:35 Mm.

Jen Sincero 13:36 Money is currency and currency is energy, and that energy is a life force.

Lewis Howes 13:39 Mm. And when, when you were s- feeling stuck financially and around money-

Jen Sincero 13:46 Mm

Lewis Howes 13:46 ... was it more of a thinking or a-

Jen Sincero 13:48 Mm

Lewis Howes 13:48 ... feeling in your body and an emotional connection to it, or was it both?

Jen Sincero 13:52 Both. Definitely both. So-

Lewis Howes 13:53 What was the thought and what was the feeling tied to it?

Jen Sincero 13:56 Mm. The thought was, "I am never gonna get out of this. I'm 40. I'm living in a garage in an alley. I've never been able to make money. It's just not something I personally can ever do." Um, and then more subconsciously, I... You know, lots of things subconsciously, but you know, "It's not okay to do it." I discovered that I had a really... The biggest block for me was, "If I get really rich, I will..." Um, my father, who wasn't able to show love very comfortably, would always give me a 20 or... And I was like-

Lewis Howes 14:30 That was his way of-

Jen Sincero 14:31 Yep. And I was like, "If I get rich, I don't need Dad anymore."

Lewis Howes 14:34 Oh, wow.

Jen Sincero 14:34 And it's like putting a knife in his heart.

Lewis Howes 14:36 Oh my goodness.

Jen Sincero 14:36 That one blew everything open for me when I realized that. And, um, and so yeah. So those were the things, but it was really hopelessness, just like frustration and hopelessness, like, "How am I ever gonna get out of this?" And then, and then I guess, the, you know, the feeling was hopelessness, despair, sadness, anger, frustration.

Lewis Howes 14:57 Resentment.

Jen Sincero 14:58 Yeah, resentment.

Lewis Howes 14:58 And then-

Jen Sincero 14:59 Yeah, everything.

Lewis Howes 15:00 Now, did you resent people with money back then? Was it like, "Oh, f-

Jen Sincero 15:04 Yeah

Lewis Howes 15:04 ... you know, screw them, they're entitled or they have this," or was-

Jen Sincero 15:07 Anybody who talked about it I was really resentful of.

Lewis Howes 15:09 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 15:09 I was like, "Oh, shut up."

Lewis Howes 15:10 Don't talk-

Jen Sincero 15:11 Rager

Lewis Howes 15:11 ... money around me.

Jen Sincero 15:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 15:13 And what happens if we don't speak about money in a healthy way?

Jen Sincero 15:17 We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman.

Lewis Howes 15:20 Mm.

Jen Sincero 15:21 Yeah. And, and I think anything that's hush-hush has, you know... And, and I do, I relate it to sex all the time, like we're all supposed to be really good at sex, but you're never allowed to talk about it, and you certainly don't learn about it, you know? So it's like this weird-

Lewis Howes 15:34 Mm

Jen Sincero 15:34 ... mysterious, dirty thing. It really is. I mean, it's dirty. Money is dirty. You know, I don't want your dirty money. Like-

Lewis Howes 15:42 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 15:43 You know what I mean? Like-

Lewis Howes 15:44 And it's dirty until you n- don't make it dirty, right?

Jen Sincero 15:47 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 15:47 Until you change it.

Jen Sincero 15:47 Exactly. So just by like airing it out and talking about it-

Lewis Howes 15:50 Yeah

Jen Sincero 15:50 ... and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not... You know, it's so not a big deal, and it's like we all need it. You know, it's so funny. I always think, like, you know, if I told the average person, like, "I'm gonna give you 10,000 bucks," they'd be like, "Sweet." And then, you know, but talking about like how do you feel about rich people? How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money? And the dispar- you know, the difference between that. Like, you want it, but there's still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in two of my books to write that letter to money, 'cause it's a really interesting exercise.

Lewis Howes 16:27 You wrote like a love letter to money.

Jen Sincero 16:28 Yeah. You just write a letter, uh, to money as if it's a person almost. So it's like, "I love you. I wish I had more of you, but I don't trust you, and I feel like a dirty [censored] for even saying that." And you know, all, so all the, all the things, and then you can see what you got going on.

Lewis Howes 16:42 This is a topic that I've been fascinated about for decades because I didn't have money at one point also. I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. Um, I couldn't pay for the rent. I didn't buy food. I was just like living off of her for a year and a half-

Jen Sincero 16:56 Mm

Lewis Howes 16:56 ... while I was recovering from a surgery, uh, a, a wrist that I broke playing football, and I was afraid of it. My father also got into a pretty, um, bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured, where he was kind of that like lifeline for me, where he'd give me 100 bucks when I needed it and paid for things and just said, "Hey, you know, go live your dreams, and when you're done, we'll, we'll figure out what you're gonna do with a job."

Jen Sincero 17:20 Right.

Lewis Howes 17:21 He got in a car accident. He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.

Jen Sincero 17:25 My God.

Lewis Howes 17:26 Ended up surviving, but wasn't able to work anymore. So he was physically alive, emotionally and mentally kind of not here.

Jen Sincero 17:33 Wow.

Lewis Howes 17:34 So he, he passed a year ago, but it was 17 years of him struggling, right, to try to recover. So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially, in a sense. I mean, just to give me a 20 or 100 bucks here and there.

Jen Sincero 17:50 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 17:51 And he was no longer able to do that.

Jen Sincero 17:53 Wow.

Lewis Howes 17:54 So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, "I don't understand it. I don't know how to make it. Um, I don't know why anyone would give me money. You know-

Jen Sincero 18:06 Mm. Mm

Lewis Howes 18:06 ... where's my value come from?"

Jen Sincero 18:08 Yes.

Lewis Howes 18:08 Like, how am I gonna ask someone for money when I don't even know what skills or values I have?

Jen Sincero 18:11 Right, right, right.

Lewis Howes 18:13 And early on, I started to learn from these, you know, mentors and coaches teaching me about money- And one of them was around the way we speak about money, because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil, or I'm not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us if we think it's bad and evil? We're gonna be rejecting it. Or if we don't think we're deserving of it, why would we receive it?

Jen Sincero 18:37 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 18:37 Why would we bring it into us?

Jen Sincero 18:39 Right.

Lewis Howes 18:39 And so I had to really shift this conversation, you know, 20 years ago around money, and do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations, not talking about it like it's this hush-hush thing, but just being more open and conversational and not being so emotionally, like, heightened-

Jen Sincero 18:56 Yeah

Lewis Howes 18:56 ... when you talk about it a- and learn from a peaceful place of talking about it. So I love that you have this write a letter to money.

Jen Sincero 19:03 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 19:04 A- and really, I tell people, like, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate it.

Jen Sincero 19:10 Exactly. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 19:11 And treat it like you're the greatest lover of your life.

Jen Sincero 19:15 Right? Yes.

Lewis Howes 19:16 Treat... Like, if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be, uh, giving you words of affirmation and, and physical touch and, like, gifts, if you want all these love languages, then you've gotta pour into and appreciate the partner you're with.

Jen Sincero 19:30 Absolutely.

Lewis Howes 19:30 Tell them how grateful you are every day. Tell them what you love about them and what, what you see in them. And when you appreciate a person, like you said, or if you appreciate money, it can appreciate in value and, and come-

Jen Sincero 19:42 Yeah

Lewis Howes 19:42 ... to you in return.

Jen Sincero 19:43 Absolutely. It's energy, and it really... That, like... Money is currency and currency is energy. Like, like, I had to hear it, like, 6,000 times before I really got that money is energy. It's a frequency. So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it, and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just n- just being in surrender-

Lewis Howes 20:07 Mm-hmm

Jen Sincero 20:08 ... and in alignment and having it flow in. So at the beginning you asked me what my mon- you know, what my words were. So at first it was, "I can't afford it," and then I eventually went to, "Money flows to me easily and freely." And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was, you know, so in debt, but I had started doing all the energy work around it, and I was like, "All right, what are my blocks?" Like, when, when you write a new mantra, it's all about, like, really f- like the letter to money, like, what just kept coming up, and it, that, that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn't know what I was doing. So there was, like, hard and stuck and confusion. So flowing easily and freely was just like, yeah, even though I did not believe it at first. Like, it wasn't about believing it, it was about the feeling, 'cause we are emotional creatures, and fre- you know, that emotion, the frequence of emotions was, um, you know, the flowing, the easily and freely flowing was really, really powerful for me.

Lewis Howes 21:04 So, now, when you write a statement or a mantra that you're wanting to step into but you don't believe it yet-

Jen Sincero 21:10 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 21:11 ... is that lying to yourself? Or how do we overcome this thing that, okay, this is what I want and this is what I'm stepping into and the feelings I wanna experience, but I don't have it yet. I don't, I don't... And that's not actually true yet.

Jen Sincero 21:23 Okay. I'm just gonna say if you are not successful at what you wanna be successful for and you're feeling stuck, you're already lying to yourself, 'cause you're buying into the identity that is not in the flow. So that's the lie. So money flowing to me easily and freely because I live in an abundant universe and I'm a, a creature who receives, that is the truth. So even though the identity that I'm in is not believing it yet, it doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm feeling it. For... So I always tell people, like, you don't have to believe it at first, like, but you have to feel it. So that's why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it. So ease and free and flow was the most important part of that.

Lewis Howes 22:09 Do you feel like... Okay, you said you were around 40 years young when this kind of happened. Was there something in your life that was like, "I'm just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades," or, or like, "I just wanna see what's possible for me in this next decade"? Was there something around that time that made you say, "All right, this hasn't worked for 40 years of my life-"

Jen Sincero 22:28 Yeah

Lewis Howes 22:28 ... now I'm gonna try something different?

Jen Sincero 22:31 You know, I think it was... There really wasn't, like, I didn't almost get hit by a bus or, you know... I just... I... First of all, it's so boring being broke. Like, you can't do anything, right?

Lewis Howes 22:43 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 22:43 Really, you can't do anything. So... And, and I think it was just sort of a... It's almost like I ripened, you know? It's almost like how many times do you hear something before it's the aha moment, you know? Why does that suddenly happen? I think you just finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason. So I'd started reading the self-help books and I was really into it, and, you know, I made a bunch of half-assed attempts at, like, getting my act together. But I think it was just... I think I just ripened and then I, I made the decision. Like, I think really living in, in... And it was, like, a one-car garage. Like, it was small. [laughs] And I think after a little while of that, I was like-

Lewis Howes 23:20 Right, right. I'm sick and tired of this

Jen Sincero 23:21 ... "Come on."

Lewis Howes 23:22 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 23:22 "I am 40 fucking years old, you know? I can do better than this."

Lewis Howes 23:26 Right. Right.

Jen Sincero 23:27 And so I think I was just so sick of myself, so.

Lewis Howes 23:30 My, my friend Dean Graziosi says, "We pay attention to what we pay for." Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention more to, okay, now I gotta make my money back and I'm gonna make more than my money back, so I'm gonna focus, I'm gonna do all the painful things that she tells me to do, and I'm gonna the, be the best student I can be? Is that what your thought was because you invested?

Jen Sincero 23:55 Definitely. And I will say, though, is I've had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing. So it's not a guarantee. So that is part of it, for sure, 'cause I've also given, like, free coaching sessions to my friends, and it's, like, the biggest waste of all of our time, right? But, um, so I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real, but I think more importantly your attitude and the decision is, is-

Lewis Howes 24:19 It's deciding.

Jen Sincero 24:19 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you-

Lewis Howes 24:20 'Cause you can decide to invest, but you're still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes.

Jen Sincero 24:24 Absolutely, and I've got- been given things for free, especially at that time in my life. Like, anything I could get my hands on, I was... ... straight A student. So, the money did have something to do with it, but I was ready.

Lewis Howes 24:33 But you were also committed in-

Jen Sincero 24:35 I was-

Lewis Howes 24:35 Free, pay, whatever

Jen Sincero 24:36 ... so ready.

Lewis Howes 24:36 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 24:36 No, I was, uh-

Lewis Howes 24:37 You were all in.

Jen Sincero 24:38 Oh my God, yeah.

Lewis Howes 24:38 And before you weren't committed.

Jen Sincero 24:40 Yes, exactly.

Lewis Howes 24:40 Because you had the emotional blocks that were just half-

Jen Sincero 24:44 Yeah, and so I do think it was that sort of, it's sort of like the water hitting the rock, and then it's the Grand Canyon. You know, like reading the self-help books. Like I did, I had started that a couple years before the garage. So I was sort of priming myself, and then finally I was just like, "I'll do anything."

Lewis Howes 24:59 I'm in.

Jen Sincero 24:59 Like-

Lewis Howes 24:59 Let's do this

Jen Sincero 24:59 ... hit me, yeah.

Lewis Howes 25:00 What was the book that really-

Jen Sincero 25:02 Mm

Lewis Howes 25:02 ... inspired you the most?

Jen Sincero 25:03 The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles.

Lewis Howes 25:05 Yeah, that's a good one.

Jen Sincero 25:06 I mean, not only 'cause it's like this big, 'cause I'm super impatient, but I mean, and it's super cryptic. It's like, it's all about the universe being a thinking stuff, and when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world. And I just, I just, it really, really, really spoke to me. I've read it hundreds of times.

Lewis Howes 25:25 Really?

Jen Sincero 25:25 Yes. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 25:27 What was the biggest takeaway from that book?

Jen Sincero 25:29 Oh, I'm so happy you asked, 'cause I'm... Talk about this line all the time, is to think what you want to think is to think the truth, regardless of appearances. So, this is everything, right? So mindset is everything. So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I'm living in a garage, in an alley, driving a car with no grill, like those are the appearances. But to think what you want. And I think the want is so key too, because that's your, that's your authenticity. That's not like thinking what other people think you should do, and how you should live your life. To think what you want, the purpose that you were put on Planet Earth to live out, that's the truth. That is the truth. So your desires are the truth, not what's physically around you.

Lewis Howes 26:14 Wow. So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires, that it's for something, not just selfish and self-serving by itself, or ego-driven, but more, I don't know, driven by something greater? You know, 'cause if someone says, "Well, I wanna make a lot of money," or, "I wanna make $100,000 in a year," or $500,000, or whatever it is, or millions, how do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don't hurt ourselves in the process of making money, or it become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?

Jen Sincero 26:52 I think you always come back to is it fun, does it give me energy or deplete my energy, and does it have meaning? Those are the three things that I'm really living my life by these days. And, uh, I think that if you're in alignment with those three things, and other things certainly, but those are sort of my big three.

Lewis Howes 27:14 Is it fun, does it give me energy, and does it give me meaning?

Jen Sincero 27:16 Yeah. And is it meaningful? Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:18 Is it meaningful?

Jen Sincero 27:19 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:19 I like that.

Jen Sincero 27:20 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:21 And where were you at 39? Doing things that weren't fun-

Jen Sincero 27:24 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 27:24 ... that drained your energy-

Jen Sincero 27:25 Yeah

Lewis Howes 27:25 ... and didn't give you meaning?

Jen Sincero 27:26 Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off. And then like when I really did the math, I was like, the amount of time I spent hustling for this gig, and they don't pay that well. Like magazine articles, come on. I was making like, I was probably losing money, quite frankly. [laughs] So, um, yeah, no, there was, there was none of that. It was not fun. It was exhausting. It had some meaning, but you gotta get all three, you know?

Lewis Howes 27:51 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 27:51 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:51 Or at least start working towards it, 'cause there's-

Jen Sincero 27:52 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:53 You may not be able to at this season-

Jen Sincero 27:55 Yes

Lewis Howes 27:55 ... but you gotta focus on can I, can I get one?

Jen Sincero 27:57 Can I get one, and is it leading in the direction-

Lewis Howes 27:59 It's a nice thing, yeah

Jen Sincero 28:00 ... of something that is fun, that is gonna give me energy-

Lewis Howes 28:01 Yes

Jen Sincero 28:01 ... and has meaning. 'Cause it, you're right. Like when you're building a company, or when you're doing something, like it is exhausting. And, but if it's still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah.

Lewis Howes 28:11 Meaning.

Jen Sincero 28:12 Yeah. It doesn't get to be a picnic all the time.

Lewis Howes 28:13 When was the biggest aha moment for you then? Like, was it after you made a certain amount of money-

Jen Sincero 28:19 Mm

Lewis Howes 28:19 ... or a client paid you something, or was it just a feeling you had, like releasing all of it in the process of working? Like, when was that moment where you're like, "I'm actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money."

Jen Sincero 28:32 Oh, interesting. Um-

Lewis Howes 28:35 Maybe I'm not abundant of money.

Jen Sincero 28:36 No, I will tell you. No, I actually did, and I did put it in You Are a Badass. I put it in one of them. It was when I s- I had, oh my God, it was such a cool moment. So, because money is currency and currency is energy, right? So we're really gonna get woo woo with the money. Like-

Lewis Howes 28:52 I like it

Jen Sincero 28:52 ... really shifting the mindset around money. And I, and bring me back to my story if I go off on a tangent, 'cause I'm about to go on a, off on a tangent and I wanna remember. [laughs] But I, um-

Lewis Howes 29:03 Money is currency and currency is energy.

Jen Sincero 29:05 Yes. Money is currency, currency is energy, and I've had so many clients that have told me, and it's happened to me too, where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency-

Lewis Howes 29:14 Yes

Jen Sincero 29:15 ... and they focus on the amount. The exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn't even think of. And so my story is around that, where I was working with my coach and we were really gonna shift my money reality. And so she's like, "You know, what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now? Like, what would have a lot of meaning?" And I was like, "$10,000," 'cause I'm $10,000 in debt on my credit card, and I hate being in debt. She's like, "Perfect." And so she's like, "Okay, so how soon are you gonna make it?" And she goes, you know, like, "About a week, two weeks?" 'Cause I, you know, and I was, at the time, making like 30 grand a year. And I was like, "My God, if I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible." And I was like, "But you know what? I gotta do it in two days," 'cause I know myself and I won't keep myself in that frequency. Like, I'll lose steam, and I'll decide that, like, nah, it's not, I, I can't do it or whatever. Like, I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in, so I was like, "All right, 10 grand in two days." She's like, "Great. Okay, so how are you gonna do it?" And at the time I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers, and I said, "I'll get three private clients," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we're, you know, putting all the pieces in place. And then she's like, "Okay, and is there anything else?" And I was like, "Well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching years ago. He was my first private client. I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour." And I was like, "I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again." And she's like, "Okay, great." And we're still on the phone and I check my email and he has written me.

Lewis Howes 30:37 Come on.

Jen Sincero 30:37 I have not thought of this man or communicated with him in years. Email, he's like, "You know, are you still coaching? Can you help me? When can we start?"

Lewis Howes 30:46 Wow.

Jen Sincero 30:47 And so she's like, "Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna put together a $10,000 package for him and you're gonna sell it to him right now and he-

Lewis Howes 30:53 Holy cow.

Jen Sincero 30:54 I know and I was like, "$10,000?"

Lewis Howes 30:56 You're like, "No."

Jen Sincero 30:56 Like I was charging him 15 bucks an hour. I was... And I really adore him. He's such-

Lewis Howes 31:01 I know

Jen Sincero 31:01 ... a special person and I was like, felt like, you know, a greedy pig, blah, blah, blah, all the things, fraud complex, gigantic.

Lewis Howes 31:09 Imposter syndrome.

Jen Sincero 31:10 Oh, beyond. Beyond. And so we p- she's like, "And what we'll do is we'll put together a $15,000 package and a 10 so that the 10 looks cheap." And I was like, "I can't do 15." She's like, "All right, 12." Pain in my ass, so did a 12, sent it to him and literally wanted to throw up. I was just like, "If he..." I, 'cause I really cared about this guy. He bought the 12.

Lewis Howes 31:30 Holy cow.

Jen Sincero 31:30 I know. I [laughs] I know.

Lewis Howes 31:32 You're like, "You know what? It should've been a 15."

Jen Sincero 31:34 I know. Exactly. I know.

Lewis Howes 31:36 Well, here's the thing, you know. It's not like you were charging him $12,000 an hour. Obviously you-

Jen Sincero 31:40 Yeah

Lewis Howes 31:40 ... created a position-

Jen Sincero 31:41 Sure

Lewis Howes 31:41 ... and a packaging of services that would over deliver, that would serve him in a big way.

Jen Sincero 31:46 Oh, yeah. I worked with him for f- five years after that.

Lewis Howes 31:48 Exactly.

Jen Sincero 31:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes 31:48 Yeah. So it's not like, "I'm just gonna charge some number-"

Jen Sincero 31:51 Oh, yeah

Lewis Howes 31:51 ... "and give very little."

Jen Sincero 31:53 Oh, no.

Lewis Howes 31:53 You made sure that the value was there.

Jen Sincero 31:55 Totally.

Lewis Howes 31:56 How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted?

Jen Sincero 32:00 My coach helped me put it all together, but then I had to rise to that frequency. And I'll tell you, you know, when you're charging something that scares the [censored] out of you, you show up with your A+ game. Like, and he did, too. Like, it was a lot for him, too. We knocked it out of the park.

Lewis Howes 32:12 'Cause you pay attention to what you pay for.

Jen Sincero 32:14 Yes.

Lewis Howes 32:15 Right?

Jen Sincero 32:15 Yes. Yep. Totally.

Lewis Howes 32:16 You'll rise to the occasion, like, "I gotta focus."

Jen Sincero 32:18 Yes. Yep.

Lewis Howes 32:18 "I gotta give. I gotta show up on time."

Jen Sincero 32:20 Oh my gosh.

Lewis Howes 32:20 "I gotta deliver the results on time."

Jen Sincero 32:22 Absolutely.

Lewis Howes 32:22 "I gotta give my best here."

Jen Sincero 32:24 Yep.

Lewis Howes 32:24 Interesting. So now, here's... I'm curious about the next thing. Was that everything to the story first off? I wanna make sure I get-

Jen Sincero 32:31 Well... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 32:32 Okay. Money is currency and currency is energy. I'm curious about the next thing. Um, so once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, "This is crazy and this is more money than I've ever made in my life essentially in two days," did you fall back at any point or did you stay focused?

Jen Sincero 32:49 Oh, interesting. Um-

Lewis Howes 32:51 'Cause sometimes-

Jen Sincero 32:51 Oh, sure

Lewis Howes 32:52 ... people get an opportunity and they get excited and then, "Well, I tried it again and it didn't work, so maybe I, this is a fluke. Maybe this was a one time." And they-

Jen Sincero 33:00 Right

Lewis Howes 33:01 ... the thermometer goes back down-

Jen Sincero 33:02 Very common

Lewis Howes 33:02 ... to what they're comfortable or familiar with.

Jen Sincero 33:04 Very common. Very common. I did not, but only because I continued to get coaching. I... And I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages. I mean, I was paying six figures by the end.

Lewis Howes 33:14 100 grand for, like, a year of coaching?

Jen Sincero 33:16 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 33:16 Wow.

Jen Sincero 33:16 Mm-hmm. So I just... S- 'Cause I knew myself. I was like, "I am rickety in this whole sort of-"

Lewis Howes 33:22 Right

Jen Sincero 33:22 ... "wealth consciousness department." So I knew that I had... It's like getting a personal trainer, right? So I just kept investing in the coaching and now, now I'm good, but I do still have to work at it. I mean...

Lewis Howes 33:32 Mm-hmm. It's different levels.

Jen Sincero 33:33 It's different levels, you know, and if-

Lewis Howes 33:35 You feel comfortable at this level, but if you wanna break through-

Jen Sincero 33:37 Exactly. Exactly

Lewis Howes 33:38 ... and do something you've never done-

Jen Sincero 33:40 Right

Lewis Howes 33:40 ... it means you've gotta have a different frequency still, right?

Jen Sincero 33:42 Exactly. You get, you know... Yep. Al- there's always more growth to be had.

Lewis Howes 33:45 Do you feel like you're at kind of at, like, a block right now? Because again, you've sold, you know, I don't know, 5 or 10 million copies of your books. You've got a coaching program. You've got all these cour- like, success, financial freedom, all these different things.

Jen Sincero 33:57 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 33:58 But is there, like, a, a level you've reached that you feel like, "Okay, well, can I break through that? This is so much now and I feel, you know, abundant." But could you break through?

Jen Sincero 34:07 If I want... If I could decide what I want the next thing to be, yeah. I'm still in that sort of-

Lewis Howes 34:11 Clarification

Jen Sincero 34:11 ... incubation period of, like, what would be fun, give me energy and have meaning? I'm getting there. Like, I definitely feel like I'm getting there and I'm doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime, but it's not the big thing.

Lewis Howes 34:24 What's your biggest, what's your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?

Jen Sincero 34:28 That I don't know what to do with it when I make it. Like, I'm good at making it. My bookkeeper called me one day and she's like, "Would you please just open a savings account at your bank?" 'Cause I had, like, a million dollars in my checking account. This was a while ago. I finally got my act... So, you know.

Lewis Howes 34:44 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 34:44 I've hired financial plan... Like, I've hired people who have grown up, so they know what they're doing-

Lewis Howes 34:48 Sure, sure

Jen Sincero 34:48 ... with money. But, like, I'm teaching myself about it, but I find it boring. I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league. So luckily, there are amazing people who know what they're doing, so I have finally gotten that team together.

Lewis Howes 35:00 Gotcha.

Jen Sincero 35:01 Um, and there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention, that is a little scared it's all gonna go away.

Lewis Howes 35:09 Really?

Jen Sincero 35:09 Yeah. But I don't... I'm not... It's not that bad and I probably should not even speak it out loud.

Lewis Howes 35:13 Right, right, right.

Jen Sincero 35:14 Yeah. But-

Lewis Howes 35:14 Well, you're being, you're being honest about it-

Jen Sincero 35:15 Yeah

Lewis Howes 35:16 ... and I think there's one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn't happen, but another thing about saying it so it doesn't have power over you.

Jen Sincero 35:21 Right. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Lewis Howes 35:22 You know, it's like-

Jen Sincero 35:23 We'll take that version

Lewis Howes 35:24 ... if you're afraid of it.

Jen Sincero 35:24 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 35:25 Like, you're afraid to have the conversation around money.

Jen Sincero 35:27 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 35:28 I, I'm all believer, like, don't speak into something into existence you don't want to happen.

Jen Sincero 35:31 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 35:31 But I think, you know, when I started talking about my fears and my shame and my insecurity-

Jen Sincero 35:36 Yeah

Lewis Howes 35:36 ... it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me.

Jen Sincero 35:39 Oh.

Lewis Howes 35:40 And now I can see it outside of me, or I could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me-

Jen Sincero 35:45 Right

Lewis Howes 35:45 ... and afraid to talk about.

Jen Sincero 35:47 Right.

Lewis Howes 35:47 And then I could ha- get coaching about it.

Jen Sincero 35:49 Right.

Lewis Howes 35:50 And then I could-

Jen Sincero 35:50 Right

Lewis Howes 35:50 ... okay, let me create a game plan. Okay, well, I'm afraid of it, but now I have a coach to help me, you know, invest it the right way and whatever I need to do.

Jen Sincero 35:58 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 35:59 You know? So...

Jen Sincero 36:00 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 36:00 As opposed to ignoring it and just-

Jen Sincero 36:02 Yeah

Lewis Howes 36:02 ... I hope I don't lose it, but I don't wanna speak about it.

Jen Sincero 36:05 Right. That's a good point. That is a good point. Okay, I'll tell you another one.

Lewis Howes 36:08 [laughs] What's the, what's the other one?

Jen Sincero 36:09 [laughs] Now that we're airing out my dirty laundry.

Lewis Howes 36:10 What's the other one?

Jen Sincero 36:12 The, the other one is that I'm gonna make too much of it, and I won't... And it is, it's kinda like the same as the first one, but I won't know what to do with it. Like, I'm scared of it coming in too fast and too much 'cause it's gonna bury me alive almost. Yeah. I know.

Lewis Howes 36:25 Oh.

Jen Sincero 36:25 I know. And so this is why-

Lewis Howes 36:27 Holy cow

Jen Sincero 36:27 ... so I-

Lewis Howes 36:28 Bury me alive?

Jen Sincero 36:29 Kind of. Yes.

Lewis Howes 36:31 Why would it bury... Why would money bury you alive?

Jen Sincero 36:34 Just telling you what I... Yeah

Lewis Howes 36:35 Well, this is the interesting thing, Jen. I think it's powerful that you're talking about this because there's different levels of insecurities or fears-

Jen Sincero 36:41 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 36:41 ... at the stages of money we make. And when I was broke on my sister's couch, I had a, a lot of fear and an- insecurity and uncertainty of the future.

Jen Sincero 36:49 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 36:50 And then I remember in one day I made $6,200 in an hour doing, like, a live webinar selling a, a program. This is in 2009.

Jen Sincero 36:57 Okay.

Lewis Howes 36:57 Before there was, like, courses and webinars, all this stuff.

Jen Sincero 36:59 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 37:00 And I go, "I'm the richest man in the world with $6,200."

Jen Sincero 37:03 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 37:03 Now, I had to split that with the person who promoted this, this training for me, but I still felt like $3,100 in an hour?

Jen Sincero 37:10 Right.

Lewis Howes 37:10 I go, "I could do this every day for the rest of my life," right?

Jen Sincero 37:13 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 37:13 'Cause I was sleeping on my sister's couch.

Jen Sincero 37:14 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 37:16 But there was still... I'd never made six figures, and so there was still a chal- like, how do I do this and how do I manage it and understand it? And now taxes? What? All my money's gone for-

Jen Sincero 37:25 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 37:26 I just made money and now it's, I have zero again. And this fear of, like, this tax thing. And then you get to the next level, and the next level, and the next level, and I just think there's different challenges or things we get to overcome at every level of money as well.

Jen Sincero 37:38 Sure. Yes.

Lewis Howes 37:40 You know what I mean?

Jen Sincero 37:40 New level, new de- devil, right?

Lewis Howes 37:41 Is that right? [laughs]

Jen Sincero 37:42 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 37:42 Right. So one of the fears is, will the money bury me alive?

Jen Sincero 37:47 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 37:47 Why do you think that is? Like...

Jen Sincero 37:49 Oh, gosh. Why do I think that is? I think it's my insecurity about not knowing what to do with it. You know, when I had, when I had very little of it, I could manage it, right? That was easy. And then as I started getting more and more... And so I do have pieces in place, but I've opened... Uh, I've hired, um, a new financial team so I can make... Like, build the nest and it will come. 'Cause I was like, "If I don't take care of this, I will literally block it. I will energetically block it if I'm scared of it coming in and think it's gonna bury me alive." Like, that is not a abundant mindset, [laughs] you know?

Lewis Howes 38:20 Sure.

Jen Sincero 38:21 So yeah. So I, um, I just created the nest, so now bring it on, universe.

Lewis Howes 38:26 Right, right.

Jen Sincero 38:26 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 38:26 So now you can... You have, you have a s- a foundation for it to come in.

Jen Sincero 38:29 Yeah, yeah, so it's not scary anymore-

Lewis Howes 38:31 Interesting

Jen Sincero 38:31 ... 'cause I know where it's gonna go. Yeah. But I realize that. I was just like, wow, I am kind of scared of it coming in too much. I know. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah?

Lewis Howes 38:41 I think it's fascinating. I think we all get to experience at different levels how to break through.

Jen Sincero 38:45 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 38:45 Otherwise, wouldn't it be interesting if it was just, I don't know, if there's no obstacle, it'd be like... You know?

Jen Sincero 38:51 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 38:51 What do you think are the key things that abundant mindset people around money do differently than scarcity mindset people-

Jen Sincero 39:01 Hmm

Lewis Howes 39:01 ... around money? If you had to say three or five kind of key things.

Jen Sincero 39:05 They appreciate it, as you said. That, that is a biggie. They appreciate it and they speak about it as... They love it. They're not weird about it. They're also generous with it, because when you pinch yourself off from giving, you... That is sort of a subconscious way of saying there's not enough to go around and it's not gonna c- I'm not in the flow. So when you don't give generously, it's 'cause you're scared that it's not gonna come in anymore. Um, they take risks. You know, you gotta take risks. You are where you are because you've been doing what you've been doing, so if you wanna change your life, you've gotta do stuff you've never done. Um, what else? Wealthy people. They learn about money. Like, you, you focus on money. Like, that was such a big thing for me too. Like, when I was broke, I, I never wanted to think about money, right? I was all about writing songs and-

Lewis Howes 39:55 Mm

Jen Sincero 39:55 ... you know, doing much, you know, more noble things.

Lewis Howes 39:58 Sure, sure.

Jen Sincero 39:58 But then, but when you're broke, all you think about is money. Like, I don't really think about money that much now that I have it. Like, but every single decision you make when you're broke is about money.

Lewis Howes 40:06 Do I have enough to pay for this?

Jen Sincero 40:07 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 40:07 Can I afford it? What happens if I don't have it?

Jen Sincero 40:09 Right. You wake up in the... first thing in the morning in a panic 'cause you gotta pay your bills. So you're always thinking about money. So it is really just sort of getting in the flow with that and just, you know, being on good terms with it and, and focusing on it. And, and, you know, how are you gonna make it? Like, being realistic about your income streams and, you know, and if you wanna make it, you've gotta coax it in, you know?

Lewis Howes 40:31 Right. Right.

Jen Sincero 40:32 Give it... Yeah.

Lewis Howes 40:33 I'm curious about this. Okay. You, you're a starving artist. You wanted to do noble things, which are about art and making art and all these different things. What would have happened if someone would've said, "Jen, you know what? I love that you're an artist. I love that you have this, you know, passion for art and you wanna keep doing this, and this is the way you've been for 40 years, and we don't want you to change. Here's 100 grand a year for the rest of your life. Don't worry about money up to 100 grand."

Jen Sincero 41:04 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 41:05 What would that have done to you if someone would've given you 100 grand a year and you would've just been like, "Okay, I'm gonna write and do whatever I want," and how do you think it would've been mentally, emotionally, spiritually-

Jen Sincero 41:15 Wow

Lewis Howes 41:15 ... versus you having to risk emotionally and mentally.

Jen Sincero 41:19 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 41:19 You getting to heal, let go, overcome.

Jen Sincero 41:23 Right.

Lewis Howes 41:24 Challenge yourself into asking for money, into becoming something greater than that limiting belief. What do you think, where do you think you'd be now?

Jen Sincero 41:32 Probably would've spent it on beer, honestly, back in those days. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 41:35 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 41:35 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't... You, you're absolutely right. It's a, it's a, it's a frequency. You know? It's like, it's like, uh... I don't know. I mean, I always, I always had, I guess, I'm gonna say gall. That's not the right word. But I did, I did do a lot of stuff that was pretty edgy, and I, I pushed the envelope a lot. So I may have gotten there, but I don't think it would've been as exciting as it was to do it myself.

Lewis Howes 42:06 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 42:06 You know, there really is. You do grow. And they, they say, you know, starting your own business is the best personal development course you can probably take.

Lewis Howes 42:12 [laughs] It's, man.

Jen Sincero 42:13 'Cause all your stuff comes up, right?

Lewis Howes 42:14 All of it.

Jen Sincero 42:15 So I-

Lewis Howes 42:15 Relationship training. It's leadership training. It's inner child train- everything.

Jen Sincero 42:19 Everything, totally.

Lewis Howes 42:20 Every button is pushed.

Jen Sincero 42:21 Totally. So, so it wouldn't have been as satisfying, I don't think.

Lewis Howes 42:26 Hmm. Interesting.

Jen Sincero 42:26 I think I still would've done it, though, 'cause that is kind of my personality. When I'm ready to change, I'm ready to change, and I do it.

Lewis Howes 42:30 Yeah, yeah.

Jen Sincero 42:31 So, but I think it wouldn't have been as glorious. And I'm def- I probably wouldn't have written You Are a Badass®, which totally changed my entire life, so.

Lewis Howes 42:38 And it, it changed yours, but it also changed other people's lives.

Jen Sincero 42:40 Yes.

Lewis Howes 42:41 So it's who you become, the lessons you learn, the wisdom you have-

Jen Sincero 42:44 Yes

Lewis Howes 42:45 ... to then, then be able to be of service and teach- From your own experience

Jen Sincero 42:48 Exactly. Yeah, the book about me getting 100 grand a year just for being would not be that interesting to people. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 42:54 Right.

Jen Sincero 42:54 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 42:54 Right. That's interesting.

Jen Sincero 42:55 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 42:56 What has been the biggest lesson in the last 10 years? 'Cause that was 10 years ago when you wrote You Are a Badass®, right?

Jen Sincero 43:03 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 43:04 And you've written two or three books since then, I, I believe. What has been the biggest lesson... Three books-

Jen Sincero 43:08 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 43:08 ... since then?

Jen Sincero 43:09 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 43:10 What has been the biggest lesson in 10 years since You Are a Badass® to now, personally-

Jen Sincero 43:17 Hm

Lewis Howes 43:17 ... physically, and financially?

Jen Sincero 43:19 Oh, man. Mm. Let me think. Okay. The biggest lessons since I wrote You Are a Badass®-

Lewis Howes 43:26 Because when you, because when you get-

Jen Sincero 43:28 Um

Lewis Howes 43:28 ... more money, more impact-

Jen Sincero 43:30 More

Lewis Howes 43:30 ... more f- celebrity, fame in an industry-

Jen Sincero 43:33 Yeah

Lewis Howes 43:34 ... people change around you. Some people don't.

Jen Sincero 43:36 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 43:36 Some people do.

Jen Sincero 43:37 Right.

Lewis Howes 43:38 Uh, you get to make different choices with your, with your health.

Jen Sincero 43:41 Right.

Lewis Howes 43:42 In positive or negative.

Jen Sincero 43:43 Right.

Lewis Howes 43:44 Um, you have more abundance to do bad things or good things.

Jen Sincero 43:47 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 43:48 And, um, you get to see how you show up emotionally, spiritually as well.

Jen Sincero 43:51 Yeah, that's such an interesting question. You know, I definitely feel like, um, since it came out and has had the success, you know, that I've gotten better and better at really... This sounds cold, but, like, not caring what other people think about me. Like, that is something that I'm really dedicated to right now, where it's, like, the one-star reviews and the five-star reviews, you know? It's like, believe me, I'm so grateful anybody reads the book.

Lewis Howes 44:17 Yeah, that's good.

Jen Sincero 44:17 But the five-star reviews are the real dangerous ones, right? Where you're just like, "That's so cool. People think I'm funny and smart." You know, really getting good inside. Like, just being like, "It doesn't matter as long as I think it's good, and I think it's funny, and I think it's helpful. That's it." And so that has been really important to me because it is weird. I mean, I'm sure you, too. Like, people know who you are, and it's like, it's, it's a little uncomfortable sometimes. I mean, it's great, too. Like, I love meeting my readers, but it's just, like, I can't get too wrapped up in their opinion of me because it's about my opinion of me.

Lewis Howes 44:49 Mm.

Jen Sincero 44:50 So that's been a really-

Lewis Howes 44:52 Oh, wow. Yeah

Jen Sincero 44:52 ... big one.

Lewis Howes 44:53 Not, so not letting the opinions of others be the opinions of you about you.

Jen Sincero 44:57 Right. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 44:58 Interesting. Yeah.

Jen Sincero 44:59 Just really coming to-

Lewis Howes 45:00 The high hype and the low low.

Jen Sincero 45:02 Yeah. Definitely. 'Cause you hear a lot about the low lows. Like, don't focus on the criticism, but you really gotta watch it with the five-star stuff, too, or else.

Lewis Howes 45:08 That's interesting.

Jen Sincero 45:08 Yeah. Because then, 'cause then if it goes away, you're screwed, right? You're totally screwed. I mean, that's why so many celebrities wind up in rehab, you know? Especially if you s- I always think about this, too, that I'm so glad, for me anyway, that it started when I was older.

Lewis Howes 45:22 Mm-hmm.

Jen Sincero 45:22 If I was 20-

Lewis Howes 45:23 Can you imagine if it was 20? Oh, man

Jen Sincero 45:24 ... when I was getting all these accolades, I would be such an idiot. I know. Like, no way. [laughs] So I'm really gra- I'm so grateful for all of it. My God.

Lewis Howes 45:32 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 45:33 Um, and then-

Lewis Howes 45:33 Okay. That's personally. What about-

Jen Sincero 45:35 Okay

Lewis Howes 45:35 ... biggest lesson, um, financially?

Jen Sincero 45:37 Financially, um, I guess I, I, I love giving money away. Like, I didn't, I really honestly never thought I was that generous of a person, [laughs] but I am. But so I'm very happy to find that out about myself, 'cause I didn't really think that I was. But also that I, um, I was just making fun of this this morning with a friend of mine, that I'm still kinda cheap with myself in ways. Like, I'm not great at, like... I mean, I have a nice house, I have a nice car. I certainly spend plenty of money on myself, but I can just be... Like, I'm not good at being rich and, like, getting room service and, like-

Lewis Howes 46:12 Right

Jen Sincero 46:12 ... spending. I'm just g- I'm still kind of, you know, the Italian immigrant's daughter who sort of pays attention. So not that that's bad, but.

Lewis Howes 46:20 It's interesting. I, I have a little bit of that in me. Although, in the last couple years I've started to learn how to take care of me.

Jen Sincero 46:26 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 46:27 Like, with travel and food-

Jen Sincero 46:28 Yeah

Lewis Howes 46:28 ... and whatever, and convenience and ti- saving time.

Jen Sincero 46:30 Convenience.

Lewis Howes 46:31 Whereas for, I don't know, the first five years of my business, uh, when... I was making money, right? It's like, not like I didn't have money, but I was so afraid to lose it also-

Jen Sincero 46:42 Yeah

Lewis Howes 46:42 ... that I was just stacking it. Every time I'd travel, I would try to find who do I know in this, this town that I can sleep on their couch?

Jen Sincero 46:48 Yeah. Isn't it funny?

Lewis Howes 46:49 'Cause I was like, "I, I'm not gonna pay 200 bucks a night for a room."

Jen Sincero 46:52 Uh-huh.

Lewis Howes 46:52 "What are we, what are we talking about?" Like-

Jen Sincero 46:53 Yeah

Lewis Howes 46:53 ... I, this, I can use that money and I can put it somewhere else.

Jen Sincero 46:56 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 46:57 And I was always like, how do I just get on the cheapest bus fare?

Jen Sincero 47:00 Right?

Lewis Howes 47:00 How do I get, like, the middle back seat on Southwest? Like, how do I get the-

Jen Sincero 47:04 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 47:04 ... $39 flight-

Jen Sincero 47:05 Shootin' high. Yeah

Lewis Howes 47:06 ... and just sit there for six hours in the middle and just, you know, crammed?

Jen Sincero 47:09 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 47:09 As opposed to, you know, convenience and, and saving time and, and having my health optimized and using it to do those things, but I was afraid to lose it. So it was just work, work, work to make it, but I was afraid to lose it for a while.

Jen Sincero 47:23 Yeah, and also, like, the, the value. Like, I still... And I make myself do, but I hate paying for parking. I would rather dr- and we're talking, like, $2 at a meter. Like, I'm so weird about that. I'm like-

Lewis Howes 47:33 You'd rather roll around the block five times-

Jen Sincero 47:34 Yeah

Lewis Howes 47:34 ... to try to find a free spot.

Jen Sincero 47:35 Just waste gas, waste my time. Like, it's so stupid, but I, and I crack up. Like, but, but I also have this thing where, like, I'll spend 60 grand to put solar on my house, but I won't spend-

Lewis Howes 47:46 [laughs] Right

Jen Sincero 47:46 ... $15 on a wooden spoon. Like, I'm just, I don't know.

Lewis Howes 47:49 Sure, sure.

Jen Sincero 47:49 So it's just kind of funny catching yourself where you're-

Lewis Howes 47:51 Well, I think there's a, there's a, there's a power in being mindful with your money and being, I would call it frugal, I guess maybe in certain ways, but abundant in other ways.

Jen Sincero 48:01 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 48:02 Right? It's like, be abundant in certain ways, but don't just overspend on everything 'cause you have the money.

Jen Sincero 48:07 Yeah, I guess. I know. So-

Lewis Howes 48:08 Be mindful of certain things, yeah

Jen Sincero 48:09 ... finding, you know, at whatever level you're at, too, you know? Like, when you don't-

Lewis Howes 48:13 Yes

Jen Sincero 48:13 ... have money, you also don't wanna be pinched off and stingy with it. Like, it really is about, this isn't just, you know, two people with money talking about it. It really is about figuring out where you're at, and how to stay in that abundance-

Lewis Howes 48:26 Yes

Jen Sincero 48:26 ... mindset and in the flow, and leaving an extra dollar when you tip or whatever, you know? But just really catching yourself when you're pinching it off. 'Cause it doesn't matter how much we're talking about, but it's that pinching off. If money is currency and currency is energy and you're pinching it off, that is not gonna do well for you.

Lewis Howes 48:42 You're blocking it. You're blocking it.

Jen Sincero 48:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 48:42 What was the big lesson about relationships in the last 10 years?

Jen Sincero 48:46 Uh.

Lewis Howes 48:48 Whether it be f-

Jen Sincero 48:49 Yeah

Lewis Howes 48:49 ... friend, colleague, intimate relationships.

Jen Sincero 48:52 Yeah. You know that people are still really uncomfortable with money, and I I do feel like it's being of service to talk about it freely and openly and joyfully, and it totally turns people off all the time, e- and close friends. Absolutely. And but taking a stand and doing it anyway, and really, like, I kinda do have to, I have to be a little careful, 'cause it can be braggy. But again, like, if I lost 100 pounds and I was telling you about losing 100 pounds, people would be happy for you. This is the same kind of thing. Like, it's something that really is an achievement that helps me be healthy and happy.

Lewis Howes 49:32 Yes.

Jen Sincero 49:33 And why shouldn't I talk about it? And the fact that you're uncomfortable with it doesn't mean I shouldn't talk about it-

Lewis Howes 49:37 Right

Jen Sincero 49:37 ... and sink down to your level, right? So that's been interes- And I have lost friends over that, absolutely.

Lewis Howes 49:43 Wow. It's interesting, because we'll see, you know, on social media-

Jen Sincero 49:46 Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:46 ... these physical transformations of people. "Here was me six months ago. Here's me now."

Jen Sincero 49:51 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:52 And a lot of... You'll see a lot of people celebrating that, right?

Jen Sincero 49:54 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:54 Like, congratulations, it's amazing. It's the encouragement. It's like, "Look what I was able to do, and I'm so proud of myself."

Jen Sincero 50:00 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 50:00 And, uh, I wish more people would do that around money, too. "Look, like, I was $30,000 in debt, and look at my bank statement now."

Jen Sincero 50:06 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 50:06 "Like, I'm debt-free and I've got 1,000 bucks in the bank."

Jen Sincero 50:09 Oh my God.

Lewis Howes 50:09 You know, whatever it is. And I think Dave Ramsey celebrates that for people in his, you know, kind of community, where it's like when they get out of debt, he brings them on the radio show and they kind of announce it. But I don't see this on social media that much.

Jen Sincero 50:20 Because that's a safe space, 'cause everybody who's listening to his show is-

Lewis Howes 50:22 Talking about money

Jen Sincero 50:23 ... drinking the Kool-Aid. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 50:24 Exactly.

Jen Sincero 50:24 Yeah. You do it in the public space, you are going down.

Lewis Howes 50:27 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 50:27 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 50:28 Why is that?

Jen Sincero 50:29 I don't really know. I don't know. I, I think about this too. Like, how did that all get started? When did it become such a dirty thing? It has... I'm sure it has to do with some kind of control. Like, some people-

Lewis Howes 50:39 Yes

Jen Sincero 50:39 ... wanted to control something, so.

Lewis Howes 50:41 Right. I'm curious about, you know, if you're down to go there, about intimate relationships. How has making money impacted you intimately in relationship?

Jen Sincero 50:51 I am definitely... That is my Achilles heel right now.

Lewis Howes 50:56 Mm.

Jen Sincero 50:56 So that... And, and it's been a little weird for me, 'cause being a very... I have stories around being a very successful woman, and how that's not so feminine, and how-

Lewis Howes 51:06 Yeah

Jen Sincero 51:06 ... yeah, there's a lot of stuff on that. So I'm... That's the, that's the new frontier, which I'm super psyched about.

Lewis Howes 51:12 Figuring it out.

Jen Sincero 51:13 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 51:13 What do you feel like is the biggest struggle around that, you know? Is it-

Jen Sincero 51:18 My own beliefs around it. Totally. Come on now. I know all this. It's all the same thing, you know? But that's, that's a, that's a deep one. And it's kind of a new one, you know, because, because I haven't been a successful woman for a long time. And, uh, so it's, it's interesting.

Lewis Howes 51:35 Wow.

Jen Sincero 51:36 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 51:37 So is this like, you know, people just are intimidated by you 'cause you have money? Or what is that?

Jen Sincero 51:42 That's what I think. The... 'Cause men are supposed to be the providers and supposed to, you know... Yeah, be the providers and to be more successful. And I don't really even care about that, you know? But I do care about somebody being at the same level of me spiritually and sorta just, you know, just with what they're into and stuff like that. So that's really important to me. But-

Lewis Howes 52:04 Interesting

Jen Sincero 52:04 ... yeah.

Lewis Howes 52:04 'Cause that might be a block for some women, like, "If I make more money, will I be in a great, intimate relationship-

Jen Sincero 52:11 I think it-

Lewis Howes 52:11 ... if I make more than my partner," right?

Jen Sincero 52:13 Well, the way that it's set up, anyway, that is sort of it, you know? That men... And you know, so I just gotta find a guy who's either as, as, who's, who's got really good wealth consciousness, who's as successful. Who's totally out there, but it's, it's my own story. It's always your own story.

Lewis Howes 52:28 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 52:28 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 52:29 What would you coach another woman-

Jen Sincero 52:31 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 52:32 ... who-

Jen Sincero 52:33 Who says the same thing

Lewis Howes 52:34 ... or who's like, uh, they've got a, you know, a successful, growing business, or maybe they're, you know, making a million dollars a year in their business or more.

Jen Sincero 52:41 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 52:42 And they're like, "Man, I've been struggling because-

Jen Sincero 52:44 Yeah

Lewis Howes 52:44 ... I haven't found a guy who's comfortable with me making this much." They feel like they can't add as much value to the relationship.

Jen Sincero 52:53 Right.

Lewis Howes 52:53 What would you say to that, to that woman?

Jen Sincero 52:54 Well, of course, Lewis, I have had that client, because the second you have an issue, that client shows up to... I don't know if you f- like, every time, 'cause I'm doing this group coaching course. And, uh, oh yeah, like, plenty of people in that group ask me the very question.

Lewis Howes 53:07 So what do you say?

Jen Sincero 53:07 Right? So it's super easy when it's the... Well, I know.

Lewis Howes 53:10 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 53:10 I mean, I know the answer, but am I, like, really gonna live it, is, uh, watch your thoughts. What are you believing about it? What have you decided is true about you, about your environment, about the way the world works? Like, it's all your thoughts. Like, if you keep harping on, "It's hard. He's not out there. I'm too this, I'm too that," then that is the truth.

Lewis Howes 53:31 That's what you'll manifest or attract into.

Jen Sincero 53:32 That, you know, to think what you wanna think is to think the truth, so.

Lewis Howes 53:35 That's true.

Jen Sincero 53:36 Yeah, so.

Lewis Howes 53:36 It's interesting, 'cause my, my girlfriend, I was telling you about her a little bit before, she's extremely successful in what she does. She makes a lot of good money. Um, and I celebrate it. I'm like-

Jen Sincero 53:48 Yeah

Lewis Howes 53:49 ... awesome. For me, it feels great to have someone who's more, uh, you know, energetically aligned or, like, more of an equal match.

Jen Sincero 53:56 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 53:57 Even though my business does more than her business, but she's making a killing, right, in her own way, and I'm excited for her.

Jen Sincero 54:05 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 54:05 And, um, it doesn't make me feel like I'm not able to provide as much with her making good money also.

Jen Sincero 54:12 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 54:12 For me, it doesn't affect that within me. But maybe 10, 15 years ago, it would have. Maybe I would have felt insecure or not enough because I hadn't worked on my stuff enough.

Jen Sincero 54:22 Right.

Lewis Howes 54:22 So I think it's just finding, you know, someone who's in alignment, who's a good match emotionally, spiritually, psychologically as well, who's done the work, and doesn't find it intimidating.

Jen Sincero 54:31 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 54:32 I find it inspiring. I'm like, wow. And here's the t- the interesting thing for me. Not to go off on this too much, but for me, something switched in the last, like, five to eight years, where I had this kinda morbid thought where I said, "Okay, if I'm with a partner and I don't feel like she can be resourceful and I die, can she take care of my kids financially?"

Jen Sincero 54:54 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 54:54 It was kind of a morbid thought, but I was like, huh. And- I struggled in the previous relationships that I was in, thinking would they be able to financially figure it out. If they didn't ha- they, they didn't remarry-

Jen Sincero 55:06 It's a great thing to think about [laughs]

Lewis Howes 55:06 ... if they di- if they didn't find another man-

Jen Sincero 55:08 Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 55:08 ... to support them financially, if they, you know, if their parents didn't fund them.

Jen Sincero 55:11 Right.

Lewis Howes 55:12 Whatever happened, if I... We had kids, I died, could they financially be resourceful?

Jen Sincero 55:17 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 55:18 Uh, and do things that would make our kids proud of them? You know what I mean? And so, and that's my partner now, so it's like she is financially resourceful and, and creative enough to generate money if she needed to, so.

Jen Sincero 55:31 Right.

Lewis Howes 55:32 But I don't need her to-

Jen Sincero 55:33 Right

Lewis Howes 55:33 ... make more. You know what I mean? So.

Jen Sincero 55:35 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes 55:35 Anyway, something to think about there. But, um, so that's one of your blocks right now, one of your, your challenges.

Jen Sincero 55:41 More like temporary block, yes.

Lewis Howes 55:42 Temporary.

Jen Sincero 55:43 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 55:43 You're releasing the block very quickly, yeah.

Jen Sincero 55:45 Yes, I'm just airing all the laundry here, Lewis. I, I hope-

Lewis Howes 55:47 I love it

Jen Sincero 55:47 ... when I leave this room, that it all-

Lewis Howes 55:49 It's rare

Jen Sincero 55:49 ... it all stays here.

Lewis Howes 55:50 Exactly. [laughs]

Jen Sincero 55:51 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 55:52 We'll open the windows so it goes somewhere else.

Jen Sincero 55:53 Yes, please.

Lewis Howes 55:54 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 55:54 Get a fan. Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 55:56 What is the, what is the question you get asked by your readers the most-

Jen Sincero 56:01 Hmm

Lewis Howes 56:01 ... that you wish they truly could hear and believe the answer to-

Jen Sincero 56:06 Hmm

Lewis Howes 56:07 ... you have?

Jen Sincero 56:07 Oh, so many. Well, the one that I said about what do you do when the people f- closest to you don't support you. Another one is how do you keep the motivation? Like, you know, we go to these seminars, we read books, we listen to the podcast, and we're all raring to go, and then wah, wah, wah, wah.

Lewis Howes 56:22 A month later you go back to your old patterns.

Jen Sincero 56:24 Exactly, yeah. So.

Lewis Howes 56:25 So how do you stay motivated-

Jen Sincero 56:26 Yeah

Lewis Howes 56:27 ... on your vision and on your growth journey?

Jen Sincero 56:29 Yeah. Well, I call it going to the spiritual gym, and you've got to have a spiritual gym practice because you do not get to work out physically and then stop going to the gym once you're in shape. So just because you got in shape at the seminar or listened to the podcast or whatever, you don't get to stop doing stuff. So, and it does... And, you know, everybody's like, "Ugh, but I'm working so hard to start my business. I don't want to do anything today. Wah, wah, wah."

Lewis Howes 56:53 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 56:53 So it's like it can be 20 minutes. You know, you working out for 20 minutes a day can do a lot of great things. So it's like spiritual gym workout. Meditate for 15, read a self-help book for five. Like, what music are you listening to? Who are you hanging out with? What makes you feel like you could flip over a car? Like, what are those things, and do them every single solitary day for 20 minutes. It's not that big a whoop-de-doo, you know, when you think about that it's gonna change your entire life. You know? So, and take it as seriously as anything else because that work will make everything else that you're taking seriously and trying to achieve so much easier. And, you know, I'm giving a lot of talks right now, and the, and the thing that I'm just so excited... And I'm so excited to be speaking right now too because it reminds me. It's my spiritual gym, right? Like, we all need it. So, but the thing about because we are spiritual creatures having a physical experience, right? And if you... And, like, instead of just giving it lip service and talking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that." But think about it. We are the universal intelligence that created everything that is. We are, our thoughts, our universal intelligence, the stuff that created everything that is. Why are we not more stuck-up? Why are we not feeling so powerful all of the time? If we're really gonna believe it, if we're really gonna go steroids on woo woo and, and go there, and really... Like, if you thought about that all day long, about your thoughts being... You know, when you're in alignment, not the, the garbage thoughts that you think, but when you get quiet and you tap into your inner yippie skippy, as I like to call it, and you're there, and you're in the flow, it's like it's so exciting, right? Instead of spinning out on how pissed off you are at somebody-

Lewis Howes 58:38 Yes

Jen Sincero 58:38 ... or freaking out about this.

Lewis Howes 58:39 Or judging people or whatever.

Jen Sincero 58:40 Judging people.

Lewis Howes 58:41 Yeah, gossip. Yeah.

Jen Sincero 58:41 What we do all the time, right? If you can just catch yourself, and that's why awareness is the key to transformation, right? So you just catch yourself when you're in the spins. And, and this is why meditation is so important, 'cause it gets you into the habit of catching yourself, right? 'Cause you're trying to stay clear. So, so it's not just about catching yourself in meditation and moving the thoughts away. Meditation is practice for doing it all day long. So catching yourself and being like, "Ah, I'm gonna tap back into universal intelligence," the stuff that created all that is. So, and then just going from there.

Lewis Howes 59:11 If you could, um, reflect on You Are a Badass, which when I read it, it, it gave me like this jolt of energy because I was like this is exactly what I want to talk about consistently.

Jen Sincero 59:23 Mm.

Lewis Howes 59:23 You know, I had, I had, uh... The School of Greatness, I think, had come out for maybe, I don't know. I think I read your book maybe a year after I started. I saw it out on the shelves, but I, but I ended up getting it maybe a year after I started the show, and I was like, "This is amazing. I'm so glad you're talking about this," 'cause it's everything that I believed in and everything I wanted to continue to express in my own way. If you could reflect on one idea from that book-

Jen Sincero 59:47 Mm

Lewis Howes 59:47 ... and you could only share one idea-

Jen Sincero 59:49 You're so mean, man. All right, let me think

Lewis Howes 59:51 ... that you believe is the thesis of the book-

Jen Sincero 59:55 Mm

Lewis Howes 59:56 ... that you want people to remember, and remember a concept, a phrase, an idea from it, what would that be for you?

Jen Sincero 1:00:04 Well, kind of what I just said, but since I just said it, I'm gonna use my point for another-

Lewis Howes 1:00:09 Give me another one, yeah. [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:00:10 ... I'm gonna use my one thing, my one thing I get to say. I really believe that if we all did something that scared us every single solitary day, our lives would change so quickly we wouldn't know what hit us, right?

Lewis Howes 1:00:23 Let's go, Jen.

Jen Sincero 1:00:24 And scary in that, like, terr-citement way. Like terror excitement. Like, you don't have to, like, run into traffic, you know? But something that's, like, in the direction of where you wanna go that scares you because fear is the sign. It's the compass that you're getting outside of the familiarity zone.

Lewis Howes 1:00:38 So true.

Jen Sincero 1:00:39 Right? So if you just take those steps outside and just do the scary thing every day, every day, wow. 'Cause that's, that's really when I was making all of my huge financial transformations. It was always... You know, my coach would always tell me something. I'd be like...

Lewis Howes 1:00:54 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:00:55 Totally didn't wanna do it, but I knew if I did it, it would transform my life, and it was exciting. You know, it was like leaping into the void, just like, "Ah."

Lewis Howes 1:01:04 Yeah, I love that

Jen Sincero 1:01:04 And that's the sign. Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:01:06 I have this concept in, in my latest book, The Greatness Mindset, called Creating Your Fear List. If you wanna become-

Jen Sincero 1:01:11 Ooh

Lewis Howes 1:01:11 ... fearless, you gotta create a fear list.

Jen Sincero 1:01:14 That's brilliant

Lewis Howes 1:01:15 And really go all in on this. This is something I did as a teenager, in my 20s, in my 30s. At different seasons of life, I was like, "What is the thing that makes me feel so insecure right now?" I had a lot of false confidence.

Jen Sincero 1:01:26 Love that. Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 1:01:26 You know, it was like this jocky ego, like I'm big and tough and I'm an athlete and I can dominate on the sports field, but then I couldn't talk to girls without being, you know, sweating and being terrified.

Jen Sincero 1:01:36 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:01:36 Or I couldn't dance or sing in public without being, like, humiliated, or I... You know, whatever it was.

Jen Sincero 1:01:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:01:42 I, I couldn't speak in public also. So all these things I wrote on my fear list in my 20s after I broke my wrist and was on my sister's couch, I was like, "I'm already humiliated. I have no money. I'm living at my sister's place for a year and a half. Um, you know, my dad just went through this thing that I don't have him really in my life anymore. I, my, my passion, my dreams are gone, so I have... What do I do now? Let me just conquer all my fears." And it was the greatest gift I gave myself because it gave me so much belief and confidence in me every time I would just get a little bit better in my fears. It's not like I had to, like, overcome it all in a day.

Jen Sincero 1:02:18 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:02:19 But I just, like, saw a little bit of progress every day in practicing my fears. Public speaking, a little bit every week. I was, like, a little less nervous, a little more confident, had a little more skill every week over a year's time, where I was like, "Man, I'm a powerful human being. I can do anything now. Let me figure out the next fear." And just kept repeating it, and, and I'm still in that now. Like, I'm, I'm trying to learn Spanish, and I still get insecure, like, speaking Spanish. I'm still a beginner. But it's like I gotta keep practicing and a little bit of growth every day, a little bit better, you know? I don't have to be fluent overnight, but what am I overcoming? Just little by little. That really gives me a lot more confidence in self and belief. And I think my thesis is self-doubt is the killer of dreams.

Jen Sincero 1:03:01 Right

Lewis Howes 1:03:01 When we doubt self, it's really hard to do anything-

Jen Sincero 1:03:05 Right

Lewis Howes 1:03:05 ... courageously, because we're constantly in doubt mode.

Jen Sincero 1:03:07 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:03:07 That's why I loved your book about stop doubting yourself-

Jen Sincero 1:03:10 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:03:10 ... and start stepping into your greatness.

Jen Sincero 1:03:12 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:03:13 And, um, and a lot of people are stuck in doubt.

Jen Sincero 1:03:16 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:03:16 What do you think, beyond facing fears, we can do to believe in ourselves more and overcome the, the self-doubt that we have better?

Jen Sincero 1:03:27 I think not waiting until you're ready, you know? And this is kinda saying the same thing, like f- facing the fear, but, like, making sure everything's perfect, making sure you've got all the money tucked away, making sure you're the right weight. You know, whatever. Like, just doing it now, you know, just do it now and take action now is, is a really big one, I think. And, um, and also, you know, paying attention, again, to how you speak about yourself and what you think about yourself and what you... how you treat yourself. And you know, I wrote a whole section in Bad Habits about boundaries. You know, boundaries are huge when it comes to self-care and self-doubt, and we make lousy boundaries and put everybody s- i- in front of us because we wanna be liked.

Lewis Howes 1:04:15 Yes

Jen Sincero 1:04:16 And, you know, and then we're passive-aggressive and resentful, which is super fun for everyone, [laughs] you know? So it's like... But, you know, really getting clear on who you are and what you love and making that a priority.

Lewis Howes 1:04:28 When did you stop abandoning yourself?

Jen Sincero 1:04:31 You know, I still do it sometimes, of course. I mean-

Lewis Howes 1:04:33 Really?

Jen Sincero 1:04:33 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's-

Lewis Howes 1:04:34 In what ways do you-

Jen Sincero 1:04:36 Oh, God

Lewis Howes 1:04:36 ... abandon? Is it in relationships?

Jen Sincero 1:04:37 Um-

Lewis Howes 1:04:37 Is it in self-care? Is it in the way you talk to your-

Jen Sincero 1:04:40 Not speaking... You know, sort of not standing my ground in the moment if somebody says something really crappy, you know? And it doesn't have to be... I'm not... I also don't wanna be the personality police, like if someone's-

Lewis Howes 1:04:52 Of course

Jen Sincero 1:04:52 ... gonna say something. But more just not saying anything. Like, instead of, like, brushing it over 'cause it's awkward, just letting it sit there like the big turd it is and letting everybody, like, have a good look at it instead of helping them recover or... You know, just, like, in the, in the moment is always interesting to me. So slowing... So my mantra for the past five years has been, like, "Slow down and shut up."

Lewis Howes 1:05:16 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:05:16 Like, just slow down and shut up. Like, I'm... You know, just listen and just choose your words wisely and just-

Lewis Howes 1:05:23 You don't have to react to everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:05:25 Exactly. So yeah, for sure. That's a big-

Lewis Howes 1:05:27 The personality police is always like, "Eh."

Jen Sincero 1:05:28 Yeah. It's not your job to teach everybody how to behave.

Lewis Howes 1:05:31 No.

Jen Sincero 1:05:31 Let them say what they want. Let them... You know, and this is all part of my whole, like, not giving a crap what people think of me. It's just like, "Think what you like. Think what you like." It's not my-

Lewis Howes 1:05:39 Right. It's almost, yeah, it's almost, you know, in a way... And I've done this many times. It's not like I'm saying I'm, uh, above or anything, but when we judge another person because they didn't do it the way we liked it-

Jen Sincero 1:05:50 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:05:50 ... or the way they think they should do it-

Jen Sincero 1:05:51 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:05:51 ... or the way it's appropriate in the setting, we are being judgmental.

Jen Sincero 1:05:55 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:05:55 We are being judgmental. We're not accepting. I'm not saying that's the right or wrong thing to do, but it's just something to notice.

Jen Sincero 1:06:02 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:02 There's a judgment that's happening.

Jen Sincero 1:06:04 Oh, yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:04 And when there's a judgment, there's usually a right and wrong.

Jen Sincero 1:06:07 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:08 And so it's just, is that serving us in the flow of our peace, our happiness, our abundance, and being in harmony with the world? And maybe there is a time when we need to step up and create a boundary and say something and say, "Get away from me," or whatever it is.

Jen Sincero 1:06:20 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:06:20 But-

Jen Sincero 1:06:21 But it's really more about it's the inside job thing-

Lewis Howes 1:06:24 It is

Jen Sincero 1:06:24 ... where it's none of your business.

Lewis Howes 1:06:25 It is.

Jen Sincero 1:06:25 You know? That's their journey, so that's really... You know, and I don't think we ever get there. I don't think... I think it is human to n-

Lewis Howes 1:06:33 To judge and to-

Jen Sincero 1:06:33 To judge [laughs] and... You know, and it's fun. Come on, Lewis, be honest. No.

Lewis Howes 1:06:36 Sure, sure.

Jen Sincero 1:06:36 But, um, but I do think that it's a very worthwhile way to spend your time, like, working that muscle and just get-

Lewis Howes 1:06:43 Yeah

Jen Sincero 1:06:43 ... 'cause it's also more fun. Like, if you don't, if you just leave it to them and let them do it, it's, it's... You're not spinning out on it anymore. You're not focusing on it, which pulls more of it into your radar anyway. Like, if you can just focus on what feels fun and good and true and just, like, let them have it back.

Lewis Howes 1:07:01 Right. Where would you say, on a scale of one to 10, let's call it the self-love inner peace scale-

Jen Sincero 1:07:06 Mm

Lewis Howes 1:07:07 ... before- You started writing You Are a Badass.

Jen Sincero 1:07:11 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:07:12 Which I'm assuming was, I don't know, a year and a half, two years before the book came out, somewhere around there. Um-

Jen Sincero 1:07:17 I wish that I was that kind of writer, but [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:07:19 [laughs] Before, before the b-

Jen Sincero 1:07:21 10 minutes before it was due is more like it. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:07:23 Right, right, right. Well, before the, the book... before you started writing the book, um, where were you on that scale of inner peace and self-love, 10 being you had, you know, perfect peace internally, lots of love for self, care for self-

Jen Sincero 1:07:38 Right

Lewis Howes 1:07:38 ... one being you hated yourself and had no peace. Where were you on that scale?

Jen Sincero 1:07:41 Gosh, you know, it really sort of depends on what area of my life we're talking about because in the... just the general overall-

Lewis Howes 1:07:47 Kind of the general feeling of, like-

Jen Sincero 1:07:48 I would say-

Lewis Howes 1:07:48 ... all areas combined

Jen Sincero 1:07:49 ... probably around a three or a four before.

Lewis Howes 1:07:55 And where are you now?

Jen Sincero 1:07:56 Now, giving myself an eight or a nine.

Lewis Howes 1:08:00 Okay.

Jen Sincero 1:08:00 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:08:01 What do you think shifted? 'Cause most people that I've asked this question to, before they became more successful, more wealthy, more known, they were usually higher, and then they dropped.

Jen Sincero 1:08:12 Oh, that's so interesting. Oh.

Lewis Howes 1:08:14 Most people, I would say 90% of people I've asked this.

Jen Sincero 1:08:16 Wow.

Lewis Howes 1:08:17 And I'm always fascinated, and they say the pressure, the weight of it all, the-

Jen Sincero 1:08:20 Oh, God, no

Lewis Howes 1:08:22 ... "Do I... you know, is it... do I really deserve all this?" That type of thing.

Jen Sincero 1:08:26 You know-

Lewis Howes 1:08:27 So why do you think it's shifted from you from being a three or four to an eight or a nine?

Jen Sincero 1:08:31 Because of what it's about. Like, for me, this whole journey of writing You Are a Badass and all the subsequent books is all about loving yourself. I mean, I put Love Yourself at the end of every chapter in You Are a Badass.

Lewis Howes 1:08:42 I know.

Jen Sincero 1:08:42 So it's like, so this is all about getting into the flow and connecting with spirit and all that stuff. So for me, it's been such an education and, and so nurturing, and the more I teach it, the more I talk about it. You know, it's me going to the spiritual gym, so it has helped me immensely. And I... yeah, and I also have this interesting sort of perspective on my success, and I don't know what this says about me-

Lewis Howes 1:09:04 Sure

Jen Sincero 1:09:04 ... that I can't take it in maybe, but I really feel like I'm watching all of it through binoculars backwards, like it's over there, and it's not me somehow. So I feel like I gave birth to the book. I did it. I wrote it, did the best job I could. Like, I'm very proud of the book, but I feel like the book is out there changing lives, and that... and, and also that it's really the people who are reading it that are... they're, they're changing their lives.

Lewis Howes 1:09:29 Oh, yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:09:29 I didn't change their lives. You know, I just gave birth to this thing because plenty of people read it and don't change their lives. So, you know, so I really credit the readers with, with changing their lives. I definitely helped them, but I didn't do it. You know? They did it.

Lewis Howes 1:09:43 Do you feel like you wrote this book for yourself 'cause you were at a three or a four and then, you know-

Jen Sincero 1:09:46 Oh, yeah, def- oh, absolutely. Yeah, totally. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:09:50 All right. Well, I love that 'cause we've done a lot of different similar, like, uh, you know, meditative experiences and emotional intelligence trainings, and I went to... I think you wrote in the book about, I think you went to Hoffman Institute or something like that, right? Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:10:01 Whoa, Hoffman. Did you go to that?

Lewis Howes 1:10:02 I went to something similar-

Jen Sincero 1:10:03 Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 1:10:03 ... yeah, called MITT here in LA-

Jen Sincero 1:10:05 Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 1:10:05 ... which was all about, you know, it's a multiple week-long experiences of emotional-

Jen Sincero 1:10:11 Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 1:10:11 ... you know, exercises and-

Jen Sincero 1:10:12 Screaming and yelling. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:10:13 ... diets and, you know, screaming, you're... you know, all these things. Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:10:16 Uh.

Lewis Howes 1:10:17 And, um, so when you wrote... when, when I was reading your book, I go, "Oh, wow," 'cause I had just gone through this.

Jen Sincero 1:10:22 Oh, cool.

Lewis Howes 1:10:23 And I go, "I know the power of this, how, how helpful it is to release the emotions-

Jen Sincero 1:10:27 Yes

Lewis Howes 1:10:27 ... the old stories, the ord na- the old narratives, the old, you know, beliefs that we have about ourself." There's many different modalities in doing that, but I went through a similar one as you. So, um, I'm curious. If you could, you know, look 10 years in the past with you being 10 years older, so you're 10 years older from now-

Jen Sincero 1:10:51 Okay

Lewis Howes 1:10:51 ... but you're looking at binoculars in the past to today.

Jen Sincero 1:10:54 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:10:55 And you are coaching yourself today-

Jen Sincero 1:10:58 Okay

Lewis Howes 1:10:58 ... 10 years wiser.

Jen Sincero 1:11:00 Oh, I know. Definitely stop complaining. That is one of my biggest goals is just to really stop complaining. Wouldn't that be a lovely thing? Um-

Lewis Howes 1:11:09 What do you complain about?

Jen Sincero 1:11:10 I don't even complain that much, but I would like to not do it at all. I really would. Like, I'm, I'm pretty good.

Lewis Howes 1:11:16 Right.

Jen Sincero 1:11:16 Um, but-

Lewis Howes 1:11:17 What does complaining do to us when we do it? How does it-

Jen Sincero 1:11:19 It makes you focus on the negative and pull more of that into your radar and just get you out of gratitude and lowers your frequency, and I'm the most charmed person I know, so seriously. So, you know, and you're allowed to... you're allowed to have temper tantrums, and, you know, you don't have to be all Pollyanna all the time. I'm a big believer in pity parties and, like, freaking out-

Lewis Howes 1:11:38 Sure, sure

Jen Sincero 1:11:38 ... and getting mad, but you don't stay there.

Lewis Howes 1:11:40 You get it out. Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:11:40 And you get it out. Right.

Lewis Howes 1:11:41 Okay. I want one.

Jen Sincero 1:11:42 Um, so just making that choice. Um, number two would be, oh, I think it's about being more proactive about the things I love to do. Really, like... and I'm starting this now. Like, I'm planning a river rafting trip. I'm pla- like, uh, aside from spiritual retreats and all that stuff, oh, that was the other one, was meditating more, getting my spiritual practice better. So getting more proactive about planning the stuff I love, not complaining.

Lewis Howes 1:12:10 Activities, hobbies, experiences.

Jen Sincero 1:12:11 Yeah, 'cause I tend to, like, I-

Lewis Howes 1:12:13 People, friends. Yeah, yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:12:14 I love doing stuff, but I really am not the best planner, and so, like, this year I'm planning... and then one of my top three favorite things is being outside doing some gigantic hike or camping trip or backpacking trip with people I love, so being the person who plans those 'cause they don't happen unless I plan them, so... And they're super fun, and I have plenty of people who will go, so.

Lewis Howes 1:12:35 Sure, sure.

Jen Sincero 1:12:35 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:12:36 And the third one was the meditation one, is that right?

Jen Sincero 1:12:38 Yeah, just really getting... I'm, I'm really good at meditating, and I, I do have a good practice, but I feel like I could be m- m- more consistently in it and just, um, yeah, just up my spiritual game.

Lewis Howes 1:12:54 Mm-hmm. Love it.

Jen Sincero 1:12:54 And my spiritual muscle, yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:12:56 That's you coaching yourself-

Jen Sincero 1:12:57 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:12:57 ... from the future.

Jen Sincero 1:12:58 Yeah. Oh, and I gotta stop thinking that, um, I can't meet a successful... that I'm too successful. That would be another one.

Lewis Howes 1:13:03 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 1:13:04 Yeah. Yeah. Def-

Lewis Howes 1:13:05 Do you think a lot of women sabotage their, their financial success-

Jen Sincero 1:13:10 Ooh

Lewis Howes 1:13:10 ... because they don't think-

Jen Sincero 1:13:11 Interesting. Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:13:11 ... they'll attract the man of their dreams?

Jen Sincero 1:13:13 I bet they do. I bet they do because it's such an ingrained piece of our, you know, living in a patriarchy as a woman. Like, it's really interesting, and it's such an exciting time to be a woman right now. I'm so excited, I am, just 'cause I feel like there's so much stuff that is airing out, right, about the way that we've been raised and, and you know. But I even still find myself... Like, I had to hire a plumber, and there was a female plumber. I was like, "I'm not gonna hire her, I'm gonna hire him." And I was like, "Oh, really, Jen Sincero?" Like, that was my knee-jerk because we're raised to think men are more capable.

Lewis Howes 1:13:45 Wow.

Jen Sincero 1:13:45 And that's just deep in me, so I can catch it and obviously not do that. But, but it's so deeply, deeply ingrained that I am sure women are not letting themselves be successful because of that. And also, that it's not ladylike, you know, that it's not feminine, and just all of these things that I don't think we're at all aware of that are now coming to the surface.

Lewis Howes 1:14:06 Mm.

Jen Sincero 1:14:07 Definitely.

Lewis Howes 1:14:08 Wow.

Jen Sincero 1:14:09 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:14:09 How important is healing our past and our thoughts tied to having peace around making money?

Jen Sincero 1:14:18 Super important because if you're... Because if you go out and make a ton and you're still weird about it.

Lewis Howes 1:14:24 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:14:25 Right? You're, first of all, not gonna enjoy it, and you'll probably lose it, or you'll-

Lewis Howes 1:14:30 Right

Jen Sincero 1:14:30 ... be, you know, put it in a hole in the backyard and never spend it or-

Lewis Howes 1:14:34 Hoard it and yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:14:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:14:36 Mm.

Jen Sincero 1:14:36 Yeah, so it, it is.

Lewis Howes 1:14:38 What is the thing that people should focus on healing the most in order to set themselves financially free?

Jen Sincero 1:14:44 I think it's different for everybody. I think we all are fed different lies and fears and things, so I think it's b- figuring out what your bag of worms is, you know? You've gotta get clear about that. And I'll tell you, the way that I discovered the big kahuna for me, which was my dad, like stabbing my dad in the heart like I was talking about earlier, was spending money. So the way that I... So I did, I did the letter to money. I was doing all... I was really serious about figuring out my stuff with money. And I was at a coaching seminar, and this coach was speaking from the stage, and he said that he charged $85,000 a year to work with him. And I... He was great, and I really loved him, and I totally wanted to work with him. And I went, when I heard $85,000, because I had been doing all this work on my wealth consciousness, instead of being like, "He's high. Like, what a... You know," but about, and a million very-

Lewis Howes 1:15:37 He's crazy. Yeah, yeah

Jen Sincero 1:15:37 ... very rational excuses-

Lewis Howes 1:15:39 Uh-huh

Jen Sincero 1:15:39 ... not to do it. Instead of going there, I went to, "Okay, how am I gonna get 85 grand?" Like, that's where my mind went first, and that's only because I'd been going to the financial spiritual gym for so long that that's where my mindset was. So I went, "How am I gonna get $85,000?" And I had a vision of my father, and a lot of stuff comes to me visually, a vision of my dad, and he always wore this yellow V-neck sweater, and he had his hands in his pockets, and he was looking down at the ground really sad. And I was like, "Oh, my God. That's it. It's, it's going to kill him if I get rich because he won't be able to show me he loves me anymore."

Lewis Howes 1:16:11 Oh, my gosh.

Jen Sincero 1:16:12 It was so profound, and that really was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. It was-

Lewis Howes 1:16:17 So what did you do after that then?

Jen Sincero 1:16:18 Well, it was interesting. I ended up not working with that coach. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:16:20 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:16:21 But I ended up-

Lewis Howes 1:16:21 But it got you thinking about... Yeah, yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:16:23 It, it... But I ended up hiring a different coach like-

Lewis Howes 1:16:25 For a lot of money, yeah, yeah

Jen Sincero 1:16:26 ... a couple weeks later for the same amount.

Lewis Howes 1:16:27 Oh, wow.

Jen Sincero 1:16:28 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:16:29 And so how did you heal that belief around, like, "I'm gonna kill my dad if I make a lot of money"?

Jen Sincero 1:16:35 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:16:35 Did you have conversations with him?

Jen Sincero 1:16:36 Mm-mm.

Lewis Howes 1:16:36 Did you do something internally? What-

Jen Sincero 1:16:39 It wasn't about him at all. It was about me and my perception. So what I started doing was visualizing him being so proud of me and supporting me and being happy and, like, turning it around as being like, he's, he's gonna be so relieved that I can take care of myself, 'cause my dad was h- had me when he was older, so it's like he'll, he'll feel so rested and... And the other thing too that was so funny, like, my relationship with him was pretty cal- was pretty rough. And so whenever, um, when I started getting, when I started making money and I would tell him about it, he didn't really listen very well. And I'd be like, "Dad, you know, I just got paid this much." He's like, "That's nice, Jen." He has an Italian accent that I always try to imitate that I'm terrible at.

Lewis Howes 1:17:18 Right, right.

Jen Sincero 1:17:19 But he, um, at the end of the call he'd be like, "You know, do you need some help financially?" And I'd be like, "Dad, I just told you that..." And so I'd get, you know, all... After the yellow sweater, hands-in-pockets moment, I was like, it's the only way he knows how to show love. So I could be like, "Dad, I just made $10 million." And at the end of the call, he'd be like-

Lewis Howes 1:17:35 "Do you need 20 bucks?" [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:17:36 ... "Do you need 20 bucks?" I'd be like, "You know, that'd be great. Thank you so much." And I could see how much it meant to him, and I'd get 20 bucks, and everything's good. So it was a really beautiful-

Lewis Howes 1:17:45 Mm.

Jen Sincero 1:17:45 And it really healed my relationship with him a lot.

Lewis Howes 1:17:48 Wow.

Jen Sincero 1:17:48 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:17:48 Did he say, "I love you"? Did he speak it?

Jen Sincero 1:17:50 Oh, he always said, "I love you." Like, he was, he was good that way, but he was a real, um, he just... He was a super introvert, and he just was really uncomfortable with emotions. Yeah, so... Which he, and he's Italian. I thought they're all screaming and yelling.

Lewis Howes 1:18:02 Right.

Jen Sincero 1:18:02 You know? I was like, "Are you sure you're Italian?"

Lewis Howes 1:18:03 Sure, sure.

Jen Sincero 1:18:04 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:18:04 But that was his way of showing affection and that he loved you by-

Jen Sincero 1:18:07 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:18:07 ... by this act.

Jen Sincero 1:18:08 And he also was raised to think men are providers, and that's how you show... Yep.

Lewis Howes 1:18:12 Even if you make money, I'm still gonna provide and support you.

Jen Sincero 1:18:14 Yes.

Lewis Howes 1:18:15 What do you think would have happened if you would have stopped allowing him to give you, you know, 10, 20, 50 bucks?

Jen Sincero 1:18:22 It would have really hurt his feelings.

Lewis Howes 1:18:23 Because he wanted to give it to you, what would have-

Jen Sincero 1:18:25 I, it would have really hurt his feelings. Like, it really would have made him feel cut off from me.

Lewis Howes 1:18:32 So this is interesting because you don't need someone to pay for you for things, right? Like, you can pay for your own life. You can pay for food and dinner and trips and your home. Like, you don't need someone to pay for you.

Jen Sincero 1:18:43 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:18:44 The thing that I've learned in the last couple of years of being with my, with my girlfriend, Martha, is that it's, it's, you know, I don't n- She can take care of her own stuff, and she takes care of certain stuff, and there are certain things that I take care of for us.

Jen Sincero 1:19:01 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:19:02 And I take care of myself financially in certain ways. But I've gotten to the point where I don't feel like I need to pay for everything to feel like she, like I'm enough.

Jen Sincero 1:19:13 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:19:13 Like, I'm, I'm good enough or that I'm- ... deserving or worthy or this is my value in being able to-

Jen Sincero 1:19:19 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:19:19 ... give everything financially. Now, again, and I don't wanna rob her of being able to pay for the things that she's made her money. I want her to be able to pay for certain things for herself.

Jen Sincero 1:19:28 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:19:29 But it does mean I get to show up in a different way, maybe not financially, but spiritually, with my presence, with my generosity of my words and my, my time, my, my thoughtfulness, and provide value in other ways not tied to money.

Jen Sincero 1:19:49 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:19:50 And sometimes that can be uncomfortable if we haven't trained ourselves how to provide value outside of money-

Jen Sincero 1:19:58 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:19:58 ... in relationships.

Jen Sincero 1:19:59 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:20:01 And I've had to learn that, and it's been a powerful breakthrough in a lot of ways.

Jen Sincero 1:20:05 Cool.

Lewis Howes 1:20:06 It, it hasn't been in the last two years. It's been like a decade of me doing this, but it allows me not to feel like, oh, she's paying for her own food right now, I'm worthless.

Jen Sincero 1:20:15 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:20:15 You know?

Jen Sincero 1:20:16 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:16 Then I'm, I'm, I'm nothing to her and I, you know.

Jen Sincero 1:20:19 Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:20 And it's been a, it's been a, it's been powerful to empower her to be able to make decisions financially.

Jen Sincero 1:20:25 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:25 Which she was doing before me. She doesn't need me to do that.

Jen Sincero 1:20:28 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:20:28 She was already doing that.

Jen Sincero 1:20:29 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:29 But to me, now I feel like I have to pay for everything.

Jen Sincero 1:20:32 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:32 And she just has to, like, let me provide at this point.

Jen Sincero 1:20:35 Yeah. I know. It's interesting.

Lewis Howes 1:20:36 It's, it's a-

Jen Sincero 1:20:37 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:20:37 ... it's more of a mutual providing of value in the relationship intimately, peacefully. Like, the highest currenc- currency for me is peace.

Jen Sincero 1:20:46 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:20:47 I, I would take peace over money all day long.

Jen Sincero 1:20:49 Mm.

Lewis Howes 1:20:50 And she brings peace to the relationship.

Jen Sincero 1:20:54 Mm.

Lewis Howes 1:20:55 Therefore, I don't need her to ever spend money on anything. Just be peaceful and I'm, we've got a happy man. [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:21:00 Uh-huh, Uh-huh.

Lewis Howes 1:21:02 But, um, and I think that's just something to look at, like, what, how can you bring value into a relationship-

Jen Sincero 1:21:07 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:21:07 ... not related to money?

Jen Sincero 1:21:08 Yeah. Well, listen, Lewis, I'm cutting you a check after I leave.

Lewis Howes 1:21:12 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:21:12 Like, the fact that you said that right after, I was like, "Of course it's my daddy's stuff." I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:21:17 That's interesting.

Jen Sincero 1:21:18 No, that is something to look at, for sure.

Lewis Howes 1:21:20 What's the best lesson your dad's taught you?

Jen Sincero 1:21:22 You know, he, uh... Oh, I don't know if this is such a great lesson, but it's a really funny line, so I have to [laughs] say it. But I remember when... I think he taught me a lot about perspective, 'cause he grew up in Italy, uh, in Naples. And, um, he didn't come over here till he was in his 20s. And so I j- and he just always thought American children were so spoiled. He was like, "Oh my God, you whiny little [censored] ."

Lewis Howes 1:21:48 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:21:49 Like, "I can't believe..." So I remember, like, one time, like, in college, I was like, "Dad, will you help pay for therapy? I'd really like to talk to a therapist." He's like, "You don't need therapy. You know what you need? A war fought on your soil." [laughs] And I was like-

Lewis Howes 1:22:00 Oh my gosh

Jen Sincero 1:22:00 ... "Okay. Right. Good perspective."

Lewis Howes 1:22:02 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:22:03 But just sorta his, um... I mean, I think also that you can love in different ways. Like, I feel like that's sort of what he has really taught me, you know, with the money stuff. Like, that was just his... He, you love however you can. And that he really d- I mean, the guy could not look at me without crying. Like, he just, that-

Lewis Howes 1:22:20 Really?

Jen Sincero 1:22:20 But he couldn't express it, so it was like, it was re- like, he couldn't.

Lewis Howes 1:22:23 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 1:22:23 And I was so angry at him for so long for not be-

Lewis Howes 1:22:26 Telling you certain things?

Jen Sincero 1:22:27 Yes. And not listening to me the right way and all this stuff. And I'm just so... He lived into his 90s and I'm so glad he did because I feel so good with where our relationship was by the time he passed because I put down the bag, you know? I was like, "Let it go, Jen." Like, he is doing-

Lewis Howes 1:22:41 Yeah, he's doing his best

Jen Sincero 1:22:41 ... the best that he can, and he loves me, and how lucky am I that I have a dad who loves me that much? So it was really, really great. So I just feel like he really taught me a lot about it doesn't have to be the way you expect it to be. It can be different. Somebody can love you differently than you would love them and that you expect it, and to be grateful as [censored] that they do.

Lewis Howes 1:23:01 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:23:01 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:23:01 That's beautiful. I love that.

Jen Sincero 1:23:03 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:23:04 I wanna ask you about coaching, because I've heard coaching a few times. As an athlete, I know the value of coaching from sports into business. I have a relationship coach. I have a, you know, health coach, nutrition coach.

Jen Sincero 1:23:16 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:23:16 I have coaching in every area because coaching worked for me as an athlete to get to my goals-

Jen Sincero 1:23:20 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:23:20 ... and accomplish the dreams that I had in sports. So when I transitioned from sports into life, the first thing I did is look for mentors and coaches to guide me on my path. I don't think I'd be where I am today without having great coaches and guides. Um, do you think we should all find a money coach or have some type of coaching within money, whether that's a financial advisor or maybe it's reading your book around money or listening to content about money, or should we have guides and coaches?

Jen Sincero 1:23:51 Yes.

Lewis Howes 1:23:51 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:23:52 Es- I mean, especially if you're not making it. Like-

Lewis Howes 1:23:54 Right

Jen Sincero 1:23:54 ... you need money, and you, you need it now, you know? So get a [censored] coach. Like, I always talk about Olympic athletes have coaches. Why do you think you and your scraggly little trying to scrape it together, why do you think you don't need one? You know, that's g- what got me doing it.

Lewis Howes 1:24:09 Right.

Jen Sincero 1:24:09 I was just like, "Who am I kidding? I've been trying for 40 years on my own and I couldn't do it."

Lewis Howes 1:24:13 Right.

Jen Sincero 1:24:14 Yeah, no. I think coaching, I think coaching... Because also, we all know what it's like, like, when you're saying, you know, how would I coach somebody who's going through what I'm going through? It's super easy, right, when it's not me. So that's what a coach also does is, like, they see... They're not in your forest with all your trees. Like, they're looking at it without all your [censored] around it, you know? So they can see it so much more easily. And so a good coach can save you so much time and money in the long run.

Lewis Howes 1:24:37 Mm.

Jen Sincero 1:24:37 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:24:38 Do you have a coach right now?

Jen Sincero 1:24:39 I don't have a coach right now. Yeah, but I'm still in that sort of incubation-

Lewis Howes 1:24:42 Trying to figure out what you want

Jen Sincero 1:24:42 ... maybe I need a coach to help me [laughs] figure out what I wanna do next.

Lewis Howes 1:24:44 Right, right, right.

Jen Sincero 1:24:44 But yeah. No, but I'm not scared of hiring them. I mean, I love-

Lewis Howes 1:24:48 Right, right

Jen Sincero 1:24:48 ... yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:24:49 But it, you're in a season of discovering and reflecting on what you want next.

Jen Sincero 1:24:52 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:24:53 You've done so much in the last decade, and-

Jen Sincero 1:24:55 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:24:55 ... and now you're figuring out, "Okay, what do I, where am I at?"

Jen Sincero 1:24:58 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:24:58 What do I wanna contribute or how do I wanna show up-

Jen Sincero 1:25:00 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:25:00 ... and stuff like that. Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:25:01 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:25:02 Interesting.

Jen Sincero 1:25:03 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:25:03 It'll come to you.

Jen Sincero 1:25:04 It's fun, and I'm still, and you know, I'm still doing stuff, and I, I really believe in not sitting around and trying to figure it out because when you're about to do something new, you don't know what it is, you've never done it, so you gotta go out and do stuff. So-

Lewis Howes 1:25:15 Try things

Jen Sincero 1:25:16 ... try things. So I'm out there trying things, for sure, and I'm, you know, d- And I'm still doing all the badass stuff. You know, we've got a lot of really cool things happening in that arena, so, um, so that's all super-duper fun.

Lewis Howes 1:25:26 That's great. That's great.

Jen Sincero 1:25:27 But just, you know...

Lewis Howes 1:25:28 Living the dream, Jen. I got a couple final questions for you.

Jen Sincero 1:25:30 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:25:30 Um, what is the thing you're most proud of that most people wouldn't know about you?

Jen Sincero 1:25:37 Um, I would say that I'm a really good friend. I have friends, I have lifelong friends from forever, and a lot of them, and we're just like a family and-

Lewis Howes 1:25:48 That's cool

Jen Sincero 1:25:48 ... I have, I feel like I'm an art collector and I have all these masterpieces of humanity that I just, I pick good ones.

Lewis Howes 1:25:55 That's a great-

Jen Sincero 1:25:56 And I keep them around, 'cause they're really important to me. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:26:00 That's cool.

Jen Sincero 1:26:00 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:26:00 I like that explanation of it.

Jen Sincero 1:26:01 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:26:02 [laughs] You're an art curator-

Jen Sincero 1:26:05 I am

Lewis Howes 1:26:05 ... of humanity.

Jen Sincero 1:26:06 I am.

Lewis Howes 1:26:06 I like that.

Jen Sincero 1:26:07 I'm telling you.

Lewis Howes 1:26:07 I like that.

Jen Sincero 1:26:08 I want to have an unveiling, which will just be called a party to some people, but... [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:26:11 [laughs] I like that a lot.

Jen Sincero 1:26:12 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:26:13 Um, I asked you this question on our previous interview that was a virtual interview, but I'm curious your thought, your response to it now.

Jen Sincero 1:26:21 Okay. Cool.

Lewis Howes 1:26:22 So we'll have to reflect afterwards-

Jen Sincero 1:26:24 Mm

Lewis Howes 1:26:24 ... on what those answers were before to where they are now.

Jen Sincero 1:26:27 Man. Pressurized.

Lewis Howes 1:26:27 Uh, th- this question is called the three truths.

Jen Sincero 1:26:30 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:26:30 So imagine a hypothetical scenario.

Jen Sincero 1:26:32 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:26:32 You get to live as long as you wanna live-

Jen Sincero 1:26:34 Okay

Lewis Howes 1:26:34 ... on this earth, but then one day you turn out the lights in this physical world.

Jen Sincero 1:26:38 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:26:39 And you get to create and achieve and accomplish all the things you wanna do.

Jen Sincero 1:26:42 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:26:43 Uh, but for whatever reason, all of your written audio and video material has to go with you.

Jen Sincero 1:26:48 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:26:50 From all your books, and this interview, and everything is gone. Hypothetical scenario.

Jen Sincero 1:26:54 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:26:54 But you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons you would share with the world.

Jen Sincero 1:26:58 Uh.

Lewis Howes 1:26:58 And this is all we have-

Jen Sincero 1:27:00 Okay

Lewis Howes 1:27:00 ... left of your, your words. What would be those three truths for you?

Jen Sincero 1:27:06 Um, well, let's see. Three truths would be the most imp- important thing to develop if you want to really live an awesome life is your mindset. Really develop your mindset and pay attention to it. Um, do the scary thing. Definitely do the scary thing every single day. And have as much fun as you can. Like, what else are we here for?

Lewis Howes 1:27:34 Yeah. That's beautiful. You have, uh, again, 10-year anniversary of You Are a Badass. Uh, you've got other amazing books as well. You're a Badass at Making Money, um, You're a Badass Every Day, Badass Habits. So many amazing books. Number one New York Time bestseller. You've got an amazing course, I believe as well, coaching course.

Jen Sincero 1:27:56 Mm-hmm. A group coaching course.

Lewis Howes 1:27:57 Group coaching course.

Jen Sincero 1:27:57 It's so fun

Lewis Howes 1:27:59 @jensincero.com, S-I-N-C-E-R-O.com where they can get that information. What do they get in this course and this coaching?

Jen Sincero 1:28:07 Well, I'm doing it live now, which I haven't done in eight years, and it's so much fun. I missed coaching. I really miss talking to other people, and it's... I've been selling it as a DIY course for a while, but now I'm back in it, so basically you get, um, it's eight weeks long. You get... And we, and what I love about this course is I wrote it right after I finished writing You Are a Badass. So I put in a lot of, like, time management and sort of like, you know, brass taxi kind of thing, and every other week is a spiritual element. So you start applying the spiritual to the tactile. So 'cause I really feel like, you know, we talk about all this stuff, but unless you're actually doing it while you're taking action, who cares? So people... It's been so much fun. So basically, you get a video at the beginning of the week, you get a PDF with the video, and then every other week you get a 90-minute coaching, group coaching call with me.

Lewis Howes 1:28:57 Wow, that's cool.

Jen Sincero 1:28:57 It's recorded, so if you can't be there, it's fine. Um, and then, or a guided meditation or a guided, um, motivational-

Lewis Howes 1:29:04 That's beautiful

Jen Sincero 1:29:04 ... something or other. Yeah, it's really fun. And a, and a, and a Facebook group where you can hang out with the other people in the course.

Lewis Howes 1:29:09 Everyone could use more, more coaching from you.

Jen Sincero 1:29:12 Ah, thank you. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:29:12 You know, the synergy, I love it. Um, you're also on social media everywhere, Jen Sincero everywhere on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. What's the main platform you hang out the most?

Jen Sincero 1:29:21 I like Instagram the best.

Lewis Howes 1:29:22 Instagram.

Jen Sincero 1:29:22 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:29:23 Yeah, okay. Make sure to follow you there. So if you enjoyed this, make sure to follow, share a story, leave a message about your biggest takeaway from this episode on social media and also in the comments below over on YouTube. Um, I wanna acknowledge you, Jen, for your journey. You being an example of what's possible for people. Someone, you know, your whole life until you were 40, really being stuck in a mindset and, and having the courage to break through, through taking action on your fears consistently, through investing in yourself, through investing in coaching, through being willing to risk feeling vulnerable, feeling overwhelmed, feeling embarrassed, feeling like a failure at times, and doing it consistently over the last, I guess, 15 plus years now. So I really, really acknowledge you for you being a channel to share this work with the world and impacting so many people along the way. It's been a beautiful journey to watch. I'm a fan of you, your work, your books. It resonates so much with me, so I acknowledge you for the gift that you are to humanity as well. It's beautiful.

Jen Sincero 1:30:27 Thank you so much.

Lewis Howes 1:30:28 You're welcome.

Jen Sincero 1:30:28 It's so nice to meet you in person.

Lewis Howes 1:30:30 Yes.

Jen Sincero 1:30:30 You're like that easy, it's be- you're totally kindred.

Lewis Howes 1:30:32 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:30:33 You are. Like, you're just, it's there all day. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:30:35 [laughs]

Jen Sincero 1:30:36 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:30:36 Um, my final question is what's your definition of greatness?

Jen Sincero 1:30:41 Allowing yourself to be, do, and have everything that lights up your little heart. People are like, "Money can't buy happiness." I'm like, "Yeah, I mean, you can certainly be unhappy with money, certainly, but it's so much easier." Money is just gives you options and freedom.

Lewis Howes 1:30:57 Yeah.

Jen Sincero 1:30:58 I love options and freedom. Options and freedom make me happy. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:31:01 Yeah, you still, you still have to heal your past, you still have to-

Jen Sincero 1:31:03 Absolutely

Lewis Howes 1:31:04 ... learn how to manage-