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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

The Science of Communication: How to Connect with Anyone | Vanessa Van Edwards

🔔 Subscribe for more great content: https://www.youtube.com/lewishowes ▶️ Recommended for you: https://youtu.be/GFOYq-EgCLA The questions you ask on autopilot might be the reason you feel lonely in a room full of people. Vanessa Van Edwards, a behavioral researcher who has studied master conversationalists for two decades, sat down with Lewis to talk about why so much of our talking leaves us empty. One in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness, and she believes the way we talk to AI is quietly changing the way we talk to each other. In her book Conversation, she lays out three levels of connection, from basic facts all the way up to the private story you tell yourself about yourself. She explains why “Been busy?” is the single worst question in small talk, and why asking for stories beats asking for facts every time. The most honest moment comes when Lewis asks what she still struggles with. Her answer is charging for her own work, a belief she traces back to her early twenties, and you get to hear a level three conversation happen live. You will walk into your next dinner or team call ready to say “tell me more” and actually mean it. Pick one person you love and ask them a better question tonight. You might be surprised how deep your relationships can go. Pre-Order: Conversation: How to Connect with Anyone & Make Every Interaction Count https://amzn.to/4qSDSJ3 Cues: Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication https://amzn.to/4x7T7iL Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People https://amzn.to/4xp0ClH Vanessa on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/vvanedwards/?hl=en Vanessa on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj9QBB4bNTv29f4oFIreNmw Vanessa's Website http://scienceofpeople.com/ Listen to this episode on the go! 🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-school-of-greatness/id596047499 🟢 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/07GQhOZboEZOE1ysnFLipT?si=a03d916bade54d4f For more info about this episode, go to https://lewishowes.com/1987 💰 get my NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING book "Make Money Easy" today!https://lewishowes.com/moneyyou 📙 get my NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING book "The Greatness Mindset" today! https://lewishowes.com/gmyo 📤 sign up for my FREE newsletter https://lewishowes.com/greatnessdelivered Follow Lewis! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lewishowes/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lewis Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lewishowes/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LewisHowes 💻 Website: http://lewishowes.com/ 📲 For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960 Get More Greatness! Greatness Clips: https://www.youtube.com/@GreatnessClips Spanish: https://www.youtube.com/@LewisHowesEspañol Portuguese: https://www.youtube.com/@LewisHowesPortugues Lewis Howes Shorts: https://www.youtube.com/@lewishowesshorts 00:00 - Intro 01:15 - AI & Conversational Muscles 06:00 - Brain Chemistry of Conversation 09:42 - Breaking Social Autopilot 13:43 - Level 1: Social Hierarchy 14:52 - The 2 Worst Questions 22:20 - Level 2: Personal Goals 24:05 - Dream Builders vs. Killers 28:08 - Howard Stern's Secret 36:00 - Level 3: Self-Narrative 54:29 - Vulnerability & Boundaries 1:02:06 - The Science of Charisma 1:09:39 - Signaling Confidence 1:15:17 - Master Your Social Skills 1:19:24 - 3 Truths on Connection #greatness #inspiration #motivation

Vanessa Van EdwardsguestLewis Howeshost
Sep 30, 20261h 21mWatch on YouTube ↗

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:15

    Intro

    1. VE

      The single worst question in any conversation is, "Been busy?" You are literally asking the other person's brain to search for negativity. You're literally reminding them of all the reasons why they shouldn't be in conversation with you. You ask the brain, "Been busy?" The brain goes, busy, busy, busy, busy, until it gets an example of being busy. Yes, I am busy.

    2. LH

      Exhausted.

    3. VE

      I'm busy.

    4. LH

      This and this and this.

    5. VE

      Or if they're not busy, well then they, then they sound like a loser. No, no, I'm-

    6. LH

      I'm just chilling out all day [laughs]

    7. VE

      ... I'm not busy.

    8. LH

      [laughs] I got nothing going on in my life.

    9. VE

      There's no win.

    10. LH

      Yeah.

    11. VE

      So been busy is the single worst question.

    12. LH

      Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral investigator and founder of Science of People, best-selling author of Captivate and Cues, and her new book Conversation. Vanessa Van Edwards.

    13. VE

      Right now we are directly competing, our conversations are directly competing with our phones, and we always choose the feed because it's more dopamine. So now our conversations have to compete with the feed. Our questions have to be so good, our stories have to be so good that we actually pull you off of your phone.

    14. LH

      How are you gonna be more funny, dramatic, interesting than 100 videos in 10 minutes?

    15. VE

      I'll tell you how. In all conversation, what we are deeply searching for is three things.

  2. 1:15 – 6:00

    AI & Conversational Muscles

    1. LH

      With AI right now is something that so many people are using, myself including, with sharpening communication, with making sure you're saying the right thing, with all these different things, whether it be in personal or business context, and I only assume AI is gonna be more used in the future by more people.

    2. VE

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      What is the biggest thing human beings are lacking-

    4. VE

      Hmm

    5. LH

      ... that will create more abundance for them in their relationships as they continue to use AI more?

    6. VE

      So I've spent the last two decades studying master conversationalists. You are one of them, sir. These are people who are able to have a conversation and elevate it to connection. They're able to avoid small talk traps. They're able to create chemistry in a way that people feel heard and understood.

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. VE

      So when we're talking about the age of AI, we are having for the first time in history more conversation with technology-

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm

    10. VE

      ... than ever before.

    11. LH

      Wow.

    12. VE

      Not just through technology. We've been having te- conversation through technology for many decades, but for the first time in history, we are now talking to it, and that is shaping our conversational muscles. Think about this, right? I was sitting next to my, my husband, and he was talking to AI, and I was... We were both working. He was talking to AI. And he goes, "Do better."

    13. LH

      To AI.

    14. VE

      To AI. Do better.

    15. LH

      [laughs]

    16. VE

      No, no, that's wrong. Do a better job. Do your research. No, verify yourself. And he's talking to AI, and then he turns to me, and I was like, "You better not tell me to do better," right? [laughs] And he was like, "Oh, no, no," um, and he had to, like, shift gears.

    17. LH

      Hmm.

    18. VE

      I could see it in his face that when we're talking to AI, we're using a kind of conversational muscle, very directive, very assertive, not polite, not about connection-

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm

    20. VE

      ... not about reciprocity. And then we have to switch to talk to our colleagues, our partners-

    21. LH

      [clears throat]

    22. VE

      ... our friends. Friends, it's the same muscle.

    23. LH

      Mm. You know, when you say that, I, I can relate to that from sports into life-

    24. VE

      Oh

    25. LH

      ... because when I was playing football, it was like three hours in the afternoon was like, "Go and kill someone."

    26. VE

      [laughs]

    27. LH

      It was literally like, put as much pain into the person across from me as possible-

    28. VE

      Yeah

    29. LH

      ... so they feel it-

    30. VE

      Yeah

  3. 6:00 – 9:42

    Brain Chemistry of Conversation

    1. VE

      The, the reason I wrote this book is there's a blueprint under our conversation that is happening that is so critical, that when we're having, uh, even, I'll even say even a video conversation, right? So y- or over the phone, that still counts. When we're talking Not asynchronously, so synchronously to another human being. Not voice note, not AI. Our body is first producing oxytocin. Oxytocin, the chemical of love and connection

    2. LH

      Real-time communication you mean. So phone call and FaceTime is okay.

    3. VE

      Yes. And we actually do still produce oxytocin over video and over the phone, so we still have it. What does oxytocin do for us? Yes, it makes us feel connected, but it actually gives us a feeling of belonging. So when I'm with you and I say, you know, "Man, I'm feeling so lonely. Like I'm so busy and I'm so tired and I'm lonely. I'm a new mom and I'm lonely," my friend can go, "Whoa, tell me everything."

    4. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    5. VE

      And I get this feeling of being understood and loved. So that oxytocin is happening. You know what oxytocin also does? And I found this in the research for this book. The untalked about benefit of good conversation is oxytocin improves our social cognition. Meaning, if we are having synchronous conversation, we both become better at reading people.

    6. LH

      Mm.

    7. VE

      We become better at reading faces.

    8. LH

      Yeah.

    9. VE

      We ha- become better at hearing the nuance in the voice. "Ooh, your voice just cracked there. Are you okay?" We get better at, "Was that a lie? Was that true?" So also, we're better with people, which makes us feel better, which makes us more confident. The second thing that it's doing is chemically, it's creating dopamine. Now dopamine does a lot of things in our body, but it's the chemical of pleasure.

    10. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. VE

      It's the chemical-

    12. LH

      Feel-good

    13. VE

      ... yes, it feels so good. It feels good, but it also gives us energy. Like that feeling of, "Tell me more. I wanna know more. I wanna do that with you. I wanna help you. Let's go see that movie." That is actually dopamine, and right now we are directly competing, our conversations are directly competing with our phones. You have a choice when you walk into a waiting room. You can scan your feed or you can talk to the person next to you. I'll have a lot of students, you know, you- when you go into a classroom, you have a choice, have your AirPods in and be on your phone-

    14. LH

      Or have a small conversation and connect

    15. VE

      ... and we always choose the feed, or almost always choose the feed-

    16. LH

      Mm

    17. VE

      ... because it's more dopamine. So now-

    18. LH

      Interesting

    19. VE

      ... I think our conversations-

    20. LH

      Wow

    21. VE

      ... have to compete with the feed. Our questions have to be so good, our stories have to be so good, that we actually pull you off of your phone. And that is a tremendous-

    22. LH

      That's, and that's, and that's hard to do, though.

    23. VE

      Pressure. I wrote a whole book about it. It's a tremendous amount of pressure.

    24. LH

      How are you gonna be more funny, dramatic, interesting than 100 videos in 10 minutes?

    25. VE

      I'll tell you how. I'll tell you how. So yes, your feed is the funniest thing on the internet that day. It's l- your feed is the best thing in the world for you at that moment. It's very hard to compete with that. But the one thing that AI cannot do is it cannot give you the feeling of being understood, because technology doesn't understand in that way, and it can also not help you feel chosen.

    26. LH

      Mm.

    27. VE

      I think in, in all conversation, what we are deeply searching for is three things. Do you understand me, do you choose me, and do you love me?

    28. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    29. VE

      And technology cannot do any of those three things.

    30. LH

      It can make me feel like, oh, there's a person talking about my challenge that is relatable.

  4. 9:42 – 13:43

    Breaking Social Autopilot

    1. VE

      and I've... Over the last two decades, so my research started with just studying patterns of conversation, like looking at very good conversationalists and analyzing what makes for a good conversation, like are there patterns?

    2. LH

      Mm.

    3. VE

      I'm a social over-thinker, [laughs] which means-

    4. LH

      [laughs]

    5. VE

      ... um, it's a fancy nice way of saying that I just rethink everything that I said and always worry that I said the wrong thing.

    6. LH

      Mm.

    7. VE

      Um, and that was really hard because I was like, "What did I miss?" Like, "What did I miss?" So I just started just studying, what are the patterns? What are the people who say the right things? Like are there right things? Are they doing something differently? Are they asking different questions? And what very quickly emerged, and this led to the second part of my research, is they are asking very highly specific questions. They are asking first questions that break autopilot. So they're not asking how are you, what do you do, where are you from? They're not asking those types of questions because they I think intuitively know it's gonna snap on autopilot. It's gonna be a boring conversation. No dopamine, right? The other thing that they're doing is they're asking questions the way that... The only pattern I could see with all these questions, because I was cataloging them, is they are looking for stories, not facts. People who look for facts, I mean, technology can do that, right? We Google fact-check some- we Google someone. You know, we're like, "Okay, married, lives in LA," right?

    8. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. VE

      Like podcaster, right, right, right. Author.

    10. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. VE

      Facts are dead ends conversationally, right? Y- "Where are you from?" "LA."

    12. LH

      Mm.

    13. VE

      "Where do you live in LA?" "Uh-huh." "How many kids you got?" And like th- there's nowhere to go with that, and it creates a lot of conversational burden. So for us over-thinkers, we're like, "Ah."

    14. LH

      Then you have to think of the next thing to ask 'cause there's, there's an ending. Okay, now I have to think of something next.

    15. VE

      And then like what happens when you're like, "What do I say next?" is very selfish. I'm listening less because I know that in one word it's gonna be a dead end. It's gonna be my turn again, right? So it creates a lot of conversational obsession.

    16. LH

      I've learned that there's three words-

    17. VE

      Mm-hmm

    18. LH

      ... that you can say to make yourself one of the most interesting people in any room, and the three words are tell me more.

    19. VE

      Tell me more. Mm-hmm.

    20. LH

      That's it. Tell me more.

    21. VE

      Tell me more.

    22. LH

      And when you create a question that doesn't have like a conclusion, but it's a story, you can say, "Wow, that's fascinating. Tell me more."

    23. VE

      Tell me more.

    24. LH

      Tell me more, right?

    25. VE

      Yes. Okay, so tell me more is one of my favorite like little phrases. I, I love it.

    26. LH

      Okay.

    27. VE

      And you're a good conversationalist, so you use it because... But if you were to ask a bad question at first, right, like, "How many kids do you have?" "Tell me more."

    28. LH

      [laughs]

    29. VE

      [laughs] It'd be weird.

    30. LH

      It's trickier.

  5. 13:43 – 14:52

    Level 1: Social Hierarchy

    1. LH

      What are-

    2. VE

      ... connect with someone

    3. LH

      What are those?

    4. VE

      Okay. So level one is called general traits. We have to start here as humans. General traits are the basic facts about someone; hometown, family status, job. Here's what's really hard, which I found shocking, is the social brain has to process social information in a hierarchy, meaning I cannot know your why and how before I know your what. I actually can't really connect with your dream and your goals and your learning-

    5. LH

      Mm

    6. VE

      ... unless I know the basics about you.

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. VE

      I have to kinda know those basics. So extroverts, well, very, very well-meaning extroverts, they really wanna connect so bad they skip it. Like, "I don't need to need to know that. I'm gonna skip right to level three." But it's, the brain literally cannot process that way. So level one is about finding out the facts through story. So asking, "Have any fun plans coming up? Do anything fun this past weekend?"

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. VE

      "So it's the holidays. What, you know, what, what big plans you got? Any trips? Spend time with the kids?" So if you have a wife and kids, you're gonna find a way to tell me, but I didn't ask you, do you have a wife and kids?

    11. LH

      Right, right, right.

    12. VE

      Right? I, "What do you do" is another like... I have a problem with that question.

  6. 14:52 – 22:20

    The 2 Worst Questions

    1. VE

      [laughs]

    2. LH

      What is the worst question anyone should ask someone just meeting for the first time?

    3. VE

      The single worst question in any conversation is, "Been busy?"

    4. LH

      Really?

    5. VE

      Been busy, you are literally asking the other person's brain to search for negativity. You're literally reminding them of all the reasons why they shouldn't be in conversation with you. It pri-

    6. LH

      'Cause they're too busy

    7. VE

      ... if you ask the brain, "Been busy," the brain goes, "Busy, busy, busy, busy," until it gets an example of being busy. "Yes, I am busy."

    8. LH

      "I'm exhausted. I'm doing this and this and this."

    9. VE

      "I'm busy." Or if they're not busy, well, then they, then they sound like a loser. "No, no, I'm-

    10. LH

      "I'm just chilling all day"

    11. VE

      ... I'm not busy."

    12. LH

      [laughs] "I got nothing going on in my life."

    13. VE

      There's no win.

    14. LH

      Yeah.

    15. VE

      So been busy is the single worst con- question. The second worst question is what do you do, and here's why. What do you do is socially scripted. Right? We've been asked and answered it so many times that the brain is gonna into social script. It is impossible to create really genuine connection when someone is social script. This is why that boring small talk happens. "What do you do? What do you do?"

    16. LH

      [laughs]

    17. VE

      "Oh, it's um-

    18. LH

      "Well, let's go to your kids' daycare. What do you do at..."

    19. VE

      "Oh, how'd you guys start in? Oh."

    20. LH

      [laughs]

    21. VE

      Or, you know, do you know what I mean? And it has that, like, tone-

    22. LH

      Yeah, yeah

    23. VE

      ... because the brain is not awake.

    24. LH

      Mm.

    25. VE

      It's, like, staying in that autopilot.

    26. LH

      What's the best response for someone to break the pattern if someone asks you, "What do you do?"

    27. VE

      Okay. Yes. I have a formula. So please, please, let's not ask these anymore. Okay? So, like, we can all agree. Let's all make a pact, small talk diet, no more what do you do, how are you. Okay? But what we can do is people are gonna ask you boring questions.

    28. LH

      Yeah.

    29. VE

      And that is an opportunity. Every single time somebody asks you, "What do you do," you have an opportunity to break their autopilot, to wake them up so their brain goes, "Whoa." What you wanna do here is you wanna create small hooks that give somebody a very easy follow-up. Remember-

    30. LH

      What do you do? Whatever it takes.

  7. 22:20 – 24:05

    Level 2: Personal Goals

    1. VE

      So level two is called personal concerns. Personal concerns are goals, motivations, values, personality traits. When you're on level two with someone, you know two things about them. This is kind of the self-check. You know what gets them up in the morning. You know what, like, pulls them through the day. You know what, like, they're driving towards or what motivates them.

    2. LH

      Yeah.

    3. VE

      But you also know what keeps them up at night. You know what worries them. You know what... Ugh.

    4. LH

      What keeps you up at night?

    5. VE

      This book launch. [laughs]

    6. LH

      [laughs] I feel like-

    7. VE

      I mean, I, just like so honestly-

    8. LH

      It's a lot of work

    9. VE

      ... it's like so many-

    10. LH

      It's a lot of work

    11. VE

      ... and also, I, like I so strongly believe in it.

    12. LH

      You're always like, "Why am I doing this again?"

    13. VE

      Why am I doing this?

    14. LH

      [laughs]

    15. VE

      And so I, yeah, this book launch.

    16. LH

      That's what's going on, yeah.

    17. VE

      That's what's keeping me up at night.

    18. LH

      Yeah.

    19. VE

      Um, and you know, book, book launches are hard because reading is a commitment.

    20. LH

      It is.

    21. VE

      I know. Asking someone to buy a book, it's a big expense. I know. And then you're asking, "Can I have eight hours of your life?"

    22. LH

      Yeah, exactly.

    23. VE

      Can I have eight hours of your life?

    24. LH

      Yeah.

    25. VE

      What a huge ask. So, um, that's what's keeping me up at night. And I think asking that is also a gift to me.

    26. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    27. VE

      Because I can ask for your help, and you already are helping by having me here.

    28. LH

      Got your back.

    29. VE

      Right?

    30. LH

      Yeah, of course.

  8. 24:05 – 28:08

    Dream Builders vs. Killers

    1. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    2. VE

      Are you dream building with the people in your life, or are you accidentally dream killing? Dream killers destroy connection in level two.

    3. LH

      Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm assuming we've all probably been there as well, as also experienced it from others, whether it be, I don't know what you're gonna say here, but it's probably like if you're just speaking negatively or gossiping or doing things that are like pulling down versus speaking about possibilities.

    4. VE

      Yes.

    5. LH

      So if you're entering into conversations, like I don't know, that are just negative, then it's okay, maybe there is some common connection about something we don't like or we didn't approve of or Sally said this, whatever.

    6. VE

      Right.

    7. LH

      But it's, is it empowering us? To move forward

    8. VE

      Okay. Negative is the first aspect of dream killing-

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm

    10. VE

      ... but it's not the only aspect. And I also don't think that you have to be positive to dream build. Like, there is such a thing as toxic positivity, right? Like, we also don't want that. What dream killing, the way that I think about it, and when I observed dream builders and dream killers as leaders, right? This is a lot of my corporate talks are tr- seeing how these two folks manage and lead. Dream builders are additive. They are constantly adding. So they are asking, "Tell me more." They are adding questions. They are adding curiosity. They are adding to whatever it, it, the fire that is being stoked.

    11. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. VE

      Dream killers are subtractive. They are taking away. They're poking holes in balloons. They also do this thing, and I think this is most of your viewers, I think. Very smart people have the tendency to accidentally dream kill with trying to be helpful.

    13. LH

      Mm. How so?

    14. VE

      Dream killers often, not always, have a very good intention. They wanna help you with their goal. "But did you know? But did you know? Well, you know the, the market is really s- That's already been done before."

    15. LH

      Oh, yeah.

    16. VE

      "I, I don't think that's gonna work."

    17. LH

      Yeah, "It's gonna be too hard," and this, that.

    18. VE

      Right, like, "Uh, you know, have you thought about this? I don't know if you've thought about that."

    19. LH

      Yeah.

    20. VE

      And so a lot of the times the smartest people in the room are dream killing-

    21. LH

      Mm

    22. VE

      ... because they're actually trying to be helpful.

    23. LH

      It's a good thing I'm always the dumbest person in every room, you know?

    24. VE

      [laughs]

    25. LH

      Always lifting others up. Hey. [laughs]

    26. VE

      [laughs] It's the bonus of being additive.

    27. LH

      Yeah. [laughs]

    28. VE

      [laughs] Oh, so I think... I just share this because, one, if you've been accidentally dream killed-

    29. LH

      Oh

    30. VE

      ... I, I would, maybe it was, maybe there was good intention there. Maybe, not always. And if you're an accidental dream killer, I just, like a lot of my students, I'll, I share this lesson. You know, I teach it. And then they're like, "Uh, um-

  9. 28:08 – 36:00

    Howard Stern's Secret

    1. VE

      Stern.

    2. LH

      He's incredible at what he does.

    3. VE

      I mean, he, h- he has these incredible conversations with people where he asks questions that have never been asked him before. He can get people to open up. And now however you feel about Howard Stern, right, like, we can still learn from how he has conversations. So I studied thousands of hours of his transcripts-

    4. LH

      Wow

    5. VE

      ... looking for patterns. Like, how does he do it?

    6. LH

      Sure, and one of the biggest things that-

    7. VE

      Okay

    8. LH

      ... Howard Stern does.

    9. VE

      So the biggest thing that he does, the name, the only name I could think of, I was like, "There's a pattern here." I call it conversational confetti. Howard Stern has the unique ability to make conversation very exciting, especially in level two, by sprinkling in phrases like, "What's the weirdest thing that ever happened to you?"

    10. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. VE

      "You're never gonna believe, yesterday, the most embarrassing thing. I couldn't believe it. The worst thing I've ever seen was... The worst piece of advice, the best advice, the most embarrassing thing, the weirdest thing was that..." And what he's doing, I was like, "Oh, my goodness." He is creating what are called information gaps.

    12. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    13. VE

      So the brain wants to know everything. It does not like having any gaps in any information. So when the brain hears, "The worst piece of advice I've ever been given," the brain's like, "Well, what is it?" [laughs] Right? It creates an information gap, and the brain will do anything to s- to hear it. So we lean in, we listen better, we get excited. It creates an... And, and then he always answers with something really on par. Like, he would never say, "You know, the craziest thing happened to me yesterday, I got a coffee."

    14. LH

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    15. VE

      He would never say that. So it's always authentic. Right? We-

    16. LH

      Yeah, I was running around naked in New York City or, you know, whatever it is. I mean-

    17. VE

      Exactly, exactly. Yeah

    18. LH

      ... some crazy thing. I was like, "What?"

    19. VE

      It was actually crazy.

    20. LH

      "Tell me more."

    21. VE

      So, so, like, it is, one is we ne- never use these inauthentically. In fact, what I actually want to think of is you actually have some very exciting, interesting worst-best things.

    22. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. VE

      We just have to preface it.

    24. LH

      One of the things that we do, uh, here when we have a new team member-

    25. VE

      Uh-huh

    26. LH

      ... and they're kind of, like, in their first team call, uh, we try not to be like Howard Stern fully on, but s- we ask people, you know, "What's your most embarrassing story?"

    27. VE

      Oh, I love.

    28. LH

      You know? And it's kind of like breaking the ice in that way of, like-

    29. VE

      Love

    30. LH

      ... reveal a little bit more about you. You can make it-

  10. 36:00 – 54:29

    Level 3: Self-Narrative

    1. VE

      Level three is self-narrative. That's the story you tell yourself about yourself.

    2. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. VE

      Actually, you know, your book when you were talking about like the masks we wear.

    4. LH

      Mask of Masculinity. Yep.

    5. VE

      I, when I read that book, I was like, wow, this is such a great take on narrative, on self-narrative, and I was actually doing my research on self-narrative then, but it wasn't ready yet.

    6. LH

      Mm.

    7. VE

      It's kind of like the mask we wear, but it's the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. It's how we make sense of our journey and purpose in life. It's how we answer the question, how did you get to where you are today? So when somebody asks you in an Uber, "What's your story?" It's like trying to jump to level three, and you're making me be a conversational narcissist.

    8. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. VE

      Any version of that question, right? Like, uh-

    10. LH

      So what's a better question to ask someone instead of what's your story?

    11. VE

      Okay, so now we have a choice, right? Like, I'm like, okay, let's get ready. If you are at level three with them, I can teach you some questions, but are you [laughs] ?

    12. LH

      Yeah.

    13. VE

      Like before I teach us level three, and I will, I will, but like- Usually level three is reserved for your most intimate, closest people

    14. LH

      Hmm, interesting

    15. VE

      And I don't... I think maybe two or three people in your life might really-

    16. LH

      Really?

    17. VE

      ... truly be here.

    18. LH

      So we shouldn't go there with most people.

    19. VE

      I think a mistake that we make in work conversation, right? Like work conversation is a really important aspect of culture and engagement. Like, if, if companies are not thinking about work conversation, they are missing the opportunity. Work conversations are, are career insurance against AI. If you can have great conversations at work, you have career insurance against-

    20. LH

      Mm

    21. VE

      ... this technology.

    22. LH

      Yeah.

    23. VE

      But if you go too deep too fast-

    24. LH

      Then what?

    25. VE

      ... people are like, "Whoa." Right? If you are trying to talk self-narrative in the five minutes before your collaboration team call-

    26. LH

      Hmm

    27. VE

      ... you're setting yourselves up for failure.

    28. LH

      But I guess the level two personal kind of goals, dreams is still-

    29. VE

      Still level two. It's okay

    30. LH

      ... it's still great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  11. 54:29 – 1:02:06

    Vulnerability & Boundaries

    1. VE

      regret.

    2. LH

      Ooh, yeah.

    3. VE

      And it can happen where you sh- you share something vulnerable, but it's not actually safe.

    4. LH

      Ooh, or like a vulnerability hangover.

    5. VE

      Exactly.

    6. LH

      It's like, oh, what did I just do?

    7. VE

      What did I just do?

    8. LH

      What did I say? What did I reveal?

    9. VE

      Right.

    10. LH

      I don't feel safe.

    11. VE

      I, why did I s-

    12. LH

      I feel-

    13. VE

      Oh, oh my gosh, I was met with toxic positivity.

    14. LH

      Yeah.

    15. VE

      I was dismissed. Someone tried to convince me I'm not who I am.

    16. LH

      Yeah.

    17. VE

      And so I, I share that because we also need to be protected.

    18. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    19. VE

      There's a very fine line between being courageous-

    20. LH

      Yes

    21. VE

      ... right, like going and asking the questions and, and breaking surface, but also making sure that we are protecting our core self and our core values.

    22. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. VE

      And so I would say, like, there's no rush.

    24. LH

      Yeah, I see what you're saying.

    25. VE

      Right? Like, yes, I wanna approach every conversation that way, but-

    26. LH

      [laughs] Yeah

    27. VE

      ... we also need to, like-

    28. LH

      Time and a place

    29. VE

      ... time and a place. And there are some days, especially at work, like the, the biggest myth that I am always talking to leaders about is that conversation takes away from productivity.

    30. LH

      Mm.

  12. 1:02:06 – 1:09:39

    The Science of Charisma

    1. LH

      Now I'm curious about, you know, your whole premise of your book is how to be instantly likable in any interaction, and a lot of people think about likability as having, like, charisma-

    2. VE

      Mm-hmm

    3. LH

      ... or magnetic energy.

    4. VE

      Mm-hmm.

    5. LH

      Do you have to be charismatic or magnetic-

    6. VE

      Hmm

    7. LH

      ... in order to be likable? And also, are you born with charisma, or is charisma a skill that you can develop?

    8. VE

      Okay. Well, the good news is charisma's absolutely a skill we can develop. Yes, there are people who are born charismatic, but it's a skill we can develop. And the funny thing is, the reason why your question is... Don't get mad at me.

    9. LH

      It's a bad question.

    10. VE

      We-

    11. LH

      It is.

    12. VE

      No, no. Don't get mad at me. We changed the subtitle.

    13. LH

      You changed it.

    14. VE

      We changed it.

    15. LH

      Oh, man. This is the galley, okay.

    16. VE

      This is the ga- But, like, it's a good... It's really worthwhile-

    17. LH

      Interesting

    18. VE

      ... talking about, because-

    19. LH

      What's the new subtitle?

    20. VE

      The new subtitle-

    21. LH

      But I, I wanna hear the answer to this-

    22. VE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

    23. LH

      ... but also, what is-

    24. VE

      That's why I'm like, "Let's dig in," because-

    25. LH

      Yeah

    26. VE

      ... this is a whole thing. You know how subtitles are a thing. Um, so the new subtitle is, um, How to Connect With Anyone and How to Make Every Interaction Count.

    27. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    28. VE

      Why?

    29. LH

      Mm.

    30. VE

      Because I was worried about this subtitle-

  13. 1:09:39 – 1:15:17

    Signaling Confidence

    1. LH

      I guess?

    2. VE

      Well, it's enough confidence to show your warmth and competence-

    3. LH

      Yes, yes

    4. VE

      ... if we're gonna play with the words-

    5. LH

      Confidence and competence.

    6. VE

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    7. LH

      Or, yeah, yeah.

    8. VE

      Confidence and warmth. So-

    9. LH

      So what are the, what are the signals when you're in person or in a group or on a stage-

    10. VE

      Yes

    11. LH

      ... or in a, in a-

    12. VE

      Yes

    13. LH

      ... board meeting or around colleagues or any of these things?

    14. VE

      So-

    15. LH

      Without bragging about yourself.

    16. VE

      Ugh.

    17. LH

      Like, "Oh, I can do this, and I can do this." Right?

    18. VE

      That's the worst, right?

    19. LH

      The-

    20. VE

      Like, that's the worst. Um, okay, so the first thing is to understand that there are different channels that we use to communicate. There are four different channels. This is actually in my, my last book, Cues. So verbal, the words you use. Non-verbal, your body language, your gestures, your facial expressions. Vocal, how I say my words, my pace, my volume, my cadence, and my ornaments. The colors I wear are the ornaments. What I'm holding, my profile picture, what's on your set, those are all actually showing warmth and confidence. Think about if you pop on a video with someone and they have credentials behind them, competent.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. VE

      They have family pictures, warmth. My... But both of those might be true.

    23. LH

      But both. [laughs]

    24. VE

      Right, right, right. Both of those might be true, but it's just signaling. You chose what you're gonna have behind you-

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm

    26. VE

      ... either your credentials or family photos, but both are true. That's why it's like this is less about authenticity in the, in the traditional sense and more about what do you want to signal? You have choice.

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. VE

      With all four of those channels, you have choice. And there are things that-

    29. LH

      It's kind of like your personal brand

    30. VE

      ... it's your charisma flavor.

  14. 1:15:17 – 1:19:24

    Master Your Social Skills

    1. VE

      wanna be brave, okay?

    2. LH

      Give them to me.

    3. VE

      Challenge number one, the, the, the safer one, but so good. Sit down with someone and invite them for a cornerstone conversation.

    4. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    5. VE

      A cornerstone conversation are these foundational conversations with people who matter to you. Could be a partner, could be a colleague, could be a best friend, could be a parent, could be a sibling, okay?

    6. LH

      Do you tell them, "This is a cornerstone conversation"?

    7. VE

      You tell them, you send them this interview and say, "Lewis and Vanessa told me that we should have a cornerstone conversation, and I love you so much," or, "I care about you so much, I picked you." Then I want you to do all the questions we talked about in this interview or the nine power questions in here. I have three questions per level.

    8. LH

      Wow.

    9. VE

      You start with level one and you work your way up to level nine. But level three, right, the, the ninth one is the hardest, right? So you work your way up. That experience of going through those questions together is transformative. It will level up the relationship or not.

    10. LH

      Mm.

    11. VE

      Depending on who it is you're talking to.

    12. LH

      Right.

    13. VE

      Okay? So, like, you wanna pick carefully. That's challenge number one. That's, that's in- interpersonal. My intrapersonal challenge, like my, just for your own growth, if you're willing, is to do a YAP challenge. So a YAP challenge is practicing the feeling of sharing your idea with authority, even if you're uncomfortable.

    14. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    15. VE

      I want you to very briefly prepare for something that you believe in, a piece of advice or a tip. I want you to turn on your camera, press record, and film yourself for 60 seconds talking about that idea, and then stop, don't edit it, post it.

    16. LH

      Yeah. One time.

    17. VE

      One time.

    18. LH

      Don't take 20 takes.

    19. VE

      No re-records. No.

    20. LH

      Just go.

    21. VE

      Because you'll feel what it feels like. It doesn't work in front of the mirror. It just doesn't work as well.

    22. LH

      Yeah.

    23. VE

      To feel what it's like in your body to feel uncomfortable and to do it and to push.

    24. LH

      You need stakes.

    25. VE

      Yes.

    26. LH

      Because if you just say, "I'm gonna record this 20 times till I feel like it's ready"-

    27. VE

      Mm-mm

    28. LH

      ... and that's tricky because when you've never done it before, you're like, "Uh, I don't sound good."

    29. VE

      Whoa. I... Oh my gosh, my voice wavers.

    30. LH

      Yeah.

  15. 1:19:24 – 1:21:14

    3 Truths on Connection

    1. LH

      You know, I guess the last time you were on was four years ago.

    2. VE

      Yeah, four years ago, yeah.

    3. LH

      So imagine you get to live as long as you want.

    4. VE

      Okay.

    5. LH

      But it's the last day on Earth.

    6. VE

      Ah.

    7. LH

      And you get to create and reimagine or reinvent your life in any way you want to-

    8. VE

      Yeah

    9. LH

      ... from this moment till then.

    10. VE

      Yeah.

    11. LH

      You get to live as long as you want, um, but for whatever reason, you gotta take all of your work with you. So this new book is gone, this conversation's gone.

    12. VE

      Mm.

    13. LH

      All your content gone-

    14. VE

      Yeah

    15. LH

      ... from the internet forever.

    16. VE

      Yeah. [laughs]

    17. LH

      But you get to leave behind three final lessons to the world.

    18. VE

      Mm.

    19. LH

      Three truths from you.

    20. VE

      Mm-hmm.

    21. LH

      What would those three truths be?

    22. VE

      Funny, 'cause I've done this with you before.

    23. LH

      Yeah.

    24. VE

      So it's, it's cool to see, you know, how my own-

    25. LH

      Yeah

    26. VE

      ... work has changed. Um, ask for stories, not facts.

    27. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    28. VE

      Like, if you... Just that will get you so far. Connection is better than going to the gym.

    29. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    30. VE

      [laughs] Or just as good as going to the gym. And if you're lonely, you're not alone. You know, I think, like-

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