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Lewis Howes"These LAWS OF POWER Will Change Your Future!" | Robert Greene
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150 min read · 30,000 words- 0:00 – 2:22
Why attitude beats skill: adopting a realistic lens
- RGRobert Greene
I've learned a lot
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
And if I could boil down what I think makes a person successful in one sense or one word, I would say it's your-
- LHLewis Howes
What should we know about The Daily Laws, your new book, 366 Meditations on Power, Seduction, Mastery, Strategy, and Human Nature? Why is this gonna be helpful for people to chunk on a daily basis something that they can take action on for yourself? What do you think?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, okay, so I've been at this, Lewis, for 25, 26 years now, which is a very good chunk of time. And, um, I've learned a lot.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
And if I could boil down what I think makes a person successful in one sense or one word, I would say it's your attitude in life-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm. God
- RGRobert Greene
... is, is the cutting edge, right? It isn't your skill. It isn't all these other things. It's how you look at the world, right? If you look at the world through the lens that's negative, like, "Nobody likes me. Um, the world is against me. I'm not really good enough. I don't deserve things," that's what you're gonna get in life, right? If you look at the world like, "There's opportunity for me. I'm good. I'm, I'm aggressive. I know how to get there. I'm gonna get it," that's what you're gonna get. So how you look at the world is what you're going to get. And the attitude, to me, that is the most powerful and the most forceful, particularly nowadays, is a realistic attitude.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? You're able to look at the world. First of all, you're able to look at yourself and assess who you are and not be filled with all these illusions or these insecurities. This is who I am realistically. This is my problems, my weaknesses, my strengths. This is what I'm good at. This is what I'm destined to create. Your ability to look at other people realistically and see through their appearances, see through their masks. They, they pretend to be this, but they're actually that, and I'm not gonna be fooled. I'm not gonna be naive-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... and I'm not gonna be fooled. I'm gonna see into that. This is what the world is like right now. These are the trends. I'm not deceived by all the things in social media. I know what's going on and where the world is headed in three years. You've got this laser focus. You're seeing through yourself. You're seeing through other people. You're seeing through all the bullshit in the world. You understand what's happening. You can't fail when you have an attitude like that.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- 2:22 – 6:00
What “The Daily Laws” is designed to do—and why daily repetition matters
- RGRobert Greene
Right? And you also understand the power of being fearless and taking risks, which is also a part of a realistic attitude. All right, how do you get there, right? Well, it's, it's not easy because it, we're born with a certain attitude. We're born with things, with, um, with burdens and, and, and, uh, baggage from our childhood, et cetera. It's like a daily process.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? You have to see, you have to see first your negative attitude, where it comes from, the problems with it. What is holding you back? And now you have the power to begin to fashion it to a degree that's going to actually be something strong and powerful. Well, this is what the book is designed for. So I've been covering this for 25 years. It's scattered across six books, right? In Mastery, I talk to you how to be realistic about your career. In Power, I tell you how to be realistic about the power games going on. In War, how to be strategic. You know, Human Nature, how to see into people. But it's all scattered, and it's hard to, like, find the cohesive thread through all these different books. This book is gonna bring it all together.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
It's gonna help you. It's very laser-focused, and I talk about it in the introduction, on crafting that hardcore realistic attitude about you, where you're headed in your career, the mistakes you're making, about people and their weaknesses and the power games they play-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... about what it takes to influence and persuade people, on and on and on. And you're gonna be doing it every day. Now, I know because I meditate every morning. I've been doing it for 11 years now. It saved my life, I can honestly say.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- RGRobert Greene
Every morning, I sit on the pillows for 40 minutes now. I just focus on, on getting outside of myself. A- and I f- And I learn through this process that day by day by day by day, change occurs. It doesn't occur in a dramatic way. It doesn't occur like, "Wow, I'm different now." It almost occurs unconsciously. Things seep into you that you're not even aware of. This book is designed to get under your skin day by day by day by day. You're gonna read it.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
It's gonna make you think. You're gonna go on to the next day. It's gonna kind of strengthen that idea, come at it from another angle. And slowly, it's gonna get under your skin, and it's gonna alter how you look at the world and alter your attitude. And then maybe you'll reread it in a year.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
That's what it's designed for.
- LHLewis Howes
For me, this is the exact type of book that is perfect for me, 'cause it's hard for me to get through a full book-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... any type of book. But when I can go to one page every day and read something that's gonna be powerful to help me improve and give me a, a tip, a strategy, an idea to improve something in my life, it's the burf- perfect type of book. So make sure you guys get a few copies-
- RGRobert Greene
[laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
... The Dai- The Daily Laws, because your friends are gonna enjoy this, especially in a world where it's, where for most people, it's hard to stay focused long periods of time-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... and keep their attention on something for a week or weeks through an entire book sometimes. Uh, you know, I don't wanna generalize, but the millennials of the world, this might be a good-
- RGRobert Greene
[laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
... this might be a good book for them to get as a gift. So get this. Um, and every day, you'll get a page that'll give you some, uh, meditations on power, seduction, mastery, strategy, and human nature. It's gonna help you improve your life. So make sure you guys check this out. Where are you spending the most time on social media right now?
- 6:00 – 6:59
Social platforms and shifting media habits
- RGRobert Greene
Um, I probably have become- I have somebody managing my TikTok account.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
So-
- LHLewis Howes
Got some good TikToks on there
- RGRobert Greene
... yeah, I don't really spend a lot of time on it, but I, I have looked at it, and that's kind of a new frontier, and it's kinda-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... exciting.
- LHLewis Howes
It's very exciting.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah. Um, and it's not natural to me, but I'm learning it.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
'Cause, you know, I'm of that age where it's like, TikTok?
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Ugh, I don't know. But I'm, I'm, I'm enthusiastic.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
I probably spend more time on Instagram. I have to admit.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay. And you're Robert Greene Official on Instagram, is that right?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay, cool.
- RGRobert Greene
I've kinda gone off Facebook like a lot of people.
- LHLewis Howes
Uh-huh.
- RGRobert Greene
Um, and I've never really been a big Twitterer.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay.
- RGRobert Greene
Although I do have a Twitter account, um-
- LHLewis Howes
Robert Greene there, but Robert Greene Official, you're posting more on, on Instagram, right?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay.
- RGRobert Greene
But, but I have, I have posts on Twitter as well.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
And then I have the, the TikTok stuff that's going on.
- LHLewis Howes
Is that just Robert Greene?
- 6:59 – 13:29
The “three truths” after a stroke: gratitude, humility, and letting go
- LHLewis Howes
Um, I wanna ask you, um, a question that I've asked you before a few times. This is your fourth or fifth time on now. Um, and it's called the three truths, and I have your previous ones here, so I'm curious if it's evolved or changed-
- RGRobert Greene
Okay
- LHLewis Howes
... as you have maybe a different perspective on life now. So, uh, the question goes like this: Imagine it's your last day on Earth many years away from now, and you continue to accomplish all of your goals and dreams, but for whatever reason, you've gotta take all of your work with you, and it's your last day, and you have three final things you get to share with the world, these three lessons you would leave behind or three truths you would share with people, and they wouldn't have access to your books or your work or this interview or any of your content. What would be those three truths that you would leave behind?
- RGRobert Greene
Whoa. Um, well, you know, uh, so recently I, I, I suffered a stroke, like three years ago. Came out of the blue.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
I was totally healthy, swimming, biking, doing everything, you know? Um, and now it's all taken away from me. So the truth is, the first truth is don't take anything for granted.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
Don't assume that what you have now is gonna go on forever. It could be taken away from you tomorrow, and appreciate and love deeply what you have right now.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
It is an insane gift to be young. I wish I could go back to being young again, 'cause that was the most fun time in my life, right? You're in your 20s, you're healthy, you're exciting, you're seducing, you're just having lots of fun. Well, it doesn't last. Well, appreciate it-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... and suck, soak up every second of it, because something like this could happen to you tomorrow, particularly with this COVID that we're all living through. So do not take the smallest thing for granted-
- LHLewis Howes
Okay
- RGRobert Greene
... 'cause it could be taken away from you.
- LHLewis Howes
That's one. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Um, well, do not be afraid to face your own kind of weaknesses.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? And, um, I'm speaking from experience, 'cause you're asking me, like, what's happened recently, you know? And, um, I've had to come to terms with my own limitations.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
Because I thought that I could do anything, right? And it's not just the physical limitation, it's the mental lis- limitations. It's the frustrations that I have. It's the anger with myself. It's like, why can't I... Is there something wrong with me that in my physical therapy I'm not able to strengthen my left arm?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
Et cetera. And I've been afraid, I think, to confront that and to see that I am my own enemy.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
I've probably gotten in the way of my own recovery-
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- RGRobert Greene
... by my attitude, by being impatient, by being in too much of in a hurry, right? So I've had to step back, and I've had to see, I've had to have some humility. So that's sort of the lesson, yes.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay. Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
Um, I'm not as great as I thought I was, but I can work on that. Now that I know that my impatience is getting in my way, I'm gonna work on that every day. So if at night I, I stumble or I drop something, I'm not, I'm gonna calm down, and I, and I'm going through this kind of physical therapy now which is actually trying to alter my attitude towards my own body.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
But I'm confronting my own limitations, and it can be at any age, and it's actually, you know, helping me get through this-
- 13:29 – 17:49
Emotions without repression: the rider-and-horse balance
- LHLewis Howes
How important is expressing emotions and feelings of the greats that you've studied, or the people you've been around? Do they express their emotions and feelings publicly? Do they do it privately? Do they journal? Do they suppress their emotions and just act, and just have a positive attitude all the time? What do you think is the importance or lack of importance of emotions?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, I think everybody's different, but in general, f- my knowledge of psychology and, um, all the books I've read is that you pay a price for repressing your emotions.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
That repressing something eventually comes out, and the great psychologist Carl Jung, he was the one who kind of studied that in great depth. When you repress, for instance, your dark side or your dark emotions, they come out in other ways, right? So trying to always, like, present yourself as this very stoic person when in fact you're not, you're gonna pay a price for it. It's gonna come out in ways you can't control, right? There's gonna be-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... a negative, um, consequences to that. Um, and so on the other hand, you don't wanna be this person who's constantly emoting and telling everybody what you feel like. It's very irritating. You have no self-control-
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
... and people are judging you.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
You look like this weak person who can't control your own tongue, you can't control-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... okay? So I compare it in my books and i- in, in, in talks to, uh, the metaphor of the rider and the horse, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
So your ri- the rider of the horse is your rational brain, and the horse is your emotion. It's the animal part of you. It's what makes you angry or excited or fearful. The rider is what makes you kind of, you know, get, get things done.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
If the rider on that horse, I don't know if people have ridden a horse. I used to ride a lot when I was a kid. If you hold the reins too tightly, if you're trying to control the horse and repress it, the horse feels it. It feels it in the way your thighs are, are constricting it. Horses are very sensitive animals, right? And it won't do anything. It won't follow any of your instructions. It won't go anywhere, or it will freak out and it will run far away and it'll throw you off the horse.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
But if you just let the horse go anywhere, the horse also feels that. The horse has been tamed to some extent, 'cause I, this guy has, I have no respect for me.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? He's not trying to do anything. And the horse will go wherever it wants, and you have no control. People who know how to ride horses, they know they have to have a balance. You have to hold the reins not too tightly, but you have to be able to guide the horse. You have to squeeze with the thighs, but not too tightly. The horse, you have to feel relaxed-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... and one with the horse. The horse then gives in, and you can go anywhere. So you want a balance in life. You want to be able to understand your emotions, right? You wanna be able to understand why you're angry, why you're fearful, why you're frustrated, and not just give into the emotion, like let the horse go anywhere, so that maybe next time you understand, "Well, maybe I don't need to feel anger or fear because it's-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... not really related to anything." So you have a balance. You understand the horse, the emotion, and you can control it to some degree, but not over-control it or repress it. 'Cause like, I know if, I get angry a lot. I have ang- I could have anger issues, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
Um, the moments where I give into it, I regret.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
If I sent that angry email to my agent-
- LHLewis Howes
Oh, man
- RGRobert Greene
... the next day-
- 17:49 – 27:09
Favorite power laws: from “never outshine the master” to “assume formlessness”
- LHLewis Howes
I'm, I'm curious about, um, 48 LAWS OF POWER and LAWS OF HUMAN NATURE. This is probably gonna be a hard question, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyways. What was your favorite, uh, law from the 48 LAWS OF POWER pre-stroke? And what would you say is your favorite one now? And the same for, uh, human nature.
- RGRobert Greene
Oh
- LHLewis Howes
Favorite, favorite kind of law of human nature pre-stroke that you're like, "This is the thing, I've- the season of my life that I really am, I'm connected to." And now something that you lean on or connect to in a different way.
- RGRobert Greene
Wow, that's a tough question.
- LHLewis Howes
It's, it's hard, I get it. I mean, there's so many.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah. Well, um-
- LHLewis Howes
First thing that comes to mind, maybe.
- RGRobert Greene
Well, f- for me, for THE 48 LAWS OF POWER, um, it's, it's, this, this'll be kind of, uh, symmetrical. But law number one was always, like, the most important one to me, never outshine the master. [clears throat] Because it was the first law, it was the first successful book I ever had. When I first pitched it to the man who, who produced the book, I told him the story that initiated the, the, the ma- never outshine the master. And I had personally violated that law on several occasions, and it caused me a lot of misery and pain in my life.
- LHLewis Howes
Why?
- RGRobert Greene
Why what?
- LHLewis Howes
Why, why did it cause you a lot of misery and pain by violating the law?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, I, um... This is before I wrote the book.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
So I had a job, uh, in the film business. It was a television show with a very famous person whose name I will not mention.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
And I was a researcher on it. [clears throat] And I was the best researcher there by far.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
You know? You would, you'd count success by how many stories you found and what got actually filmed.
- LHLewis Howes
And yours got filmed the most?
- RGRobert Greene
I had, like, a 60% rate or something like that.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- RGRobert Greene
I knew I was the best, and then I got fired.
- LHLewis Howes
Why?
- RGRobert Greene
Right? Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
'Cause you were outshining the master.
- RGRobert Greene
Well, at the time I thought, "She hated my guts." You know? It was I pissed somebody off, I said the wrong thing. And I could, I was capable of sometimes doing that, 'cause I could have an attitude.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
And I was blaming other people, et cetera. But then, you know, it started, started dawning on me, and then later when I wrote the book it was very clear to me that I had inadvertently made her think that I was, felt greater than she was, that I was after her job. Other people were really praising me-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... and not praising her so much. I was getting too much attention. And it happened another time, a second time, right? I wasn't controlling myself. And so that law-
- 27:09 – 33:03
Mastery vs. formlessness: discipline first, adaptability later
- LHLewis Howes
How does someone... You know, you have a book on mastery. How does someone m- master the art of something if they're always trying something new every day, or if they're always formless and reinventing themselves every day? Or, you know-
- RGRobert Greene
Well-
- LHLewis Howes
... what I mean? From these-
- RGRobert Greene
Well-
- LHLewis Howes
... the swordsman you were saying, it's like he was always in a new strategy. But if you wanna master something, you typically have to do something over and over to master it, correct?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah, well, that's the thing about my books and about the laws. They're about the circumstances.
- LHLewis Howes
Ah.
- RGRobert Greene
So I'm not saying assume formlessness for all you people out there who are 18 years old who are about to enter the work world, or 21. Just be formless. No.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs] Master something and then when you've mastered-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... multiple things, you can adapt.
- RGRobert Greene
Miyamoto Musashi, uh, was fighting for 20 years as a swordsman in life and death battles, and he eventually developed this power of his-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm. Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... right? But if he were formless without ever having any experience, he would've been killed in his first sword fight. So, you know, you have to have discipline. You have to assume, like, this is what I'm doing and, like, this is my career path, as you talk about-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... as you mention in Mastery. And you have to put in the hours, the 10,000, the 20,000 hours, and then when you get to the level of a master, like a Bobby Fischer in chess, then you can do anything you want.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
You're on another level.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
You can be as formless as possible.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? So, um, yeah, you're right. I'm not ad- advocating that for just anybody out there.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm. Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
But for me and my situation-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... after I've had, you know, the success... And it is, it's also for people who've suffered a major blow like that.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
Like an illness or something, where your habits of thinking can get very set and very rigid, where every day you wake up and go, "Well, why do I have to be like this? Why couldn't it have happened this differently?" As opposed to being open to what life brings me every single day-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... and not d- developing a kind of a defensive, rigid attitude.
- 33:03 – 36:49
Human Nature’s “Shadow”: confronting the dark side and channeling it
- LHLewis Howes
So what about the laws of human nature? What was one that you, that you were like, "Ah, this is my law. This is the one that I love the most right now," for whatever reason pre-stroke to the one now that you think about more as important for your life?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, um, my favorite chapter was kind of about the dark side of human nature, The Shadow.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
Confront your dark side and make it work for you, as opposed to repressing it.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Right?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
So everybody has a dark side. I don't care if you're Mahatma Gandhi-
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
... or, or whomever. You have a dark side, right? And, um, it comes out in ways that you're not even aware of. And I explain in the book where our dark side originates from. You know, as a child, we had a lot of powerful emotions that we couldn't control. We would hit our sister. We'd play terrible practical jokes. And I'm not talking personally. [laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
You know, t- terrible-
- LHLewis Howes
I did the same thing. Yeah. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
[laughs] Terrible practical jokes. We'd be kind of mean-
- LHLewis Howes
Uh-huh
- RGRobert Greene
... aggressive, but also we'd be very loving, which is true as well. We'd be a full range of things. And then you learn as you get older, "Robert, you can't hit people in school. Stop that. Don't be like that. Don't play those practical jokes. It's bad. People don't like it." And you get older and older, and you start repressing that, those-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... kind of feelings that are very natural to you, right? Because we all have aggressive impulses. We all ... We, we love our parents, but there's also a side of us that, that doesn't like them.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
We resent them. It's natural.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
But we have to repress all that because we have to be good social animals. We have to be good little kids. We have to be little angels at school. We have to be angels at work. All this pressure, like, "I've gotta repress all that. I've gotta be this perfect person. I have to be someone who pleases, who's very nice, blah, blah, blah." And then, when you're 28, you start becoming addicted to alcohol, and you don't know why. You start getting really angry. You have anger issues. You yell at people. You don't know why. You, you're, like, a 45-year-old person with a very steady profession. You leave your wife, and you run off with a 19-year-old, you know, without every- you, you know, destroying everything that you've built. The dark side has come out because you've repressed it instead of dealing with it. So the idea was you need to understand your dark side-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... confront it, and make it work for you. And I have a dark side. I have-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
You know, every chapter in the book... You know, sometimes now I think that my answer wasn't the right answer, but I, I'll go with it anyway.
- LHLewis Howes
It's all good.
- RGRobert Greene
Um, in writing the book, I kept having to say... I wrote a chapter on narcissism. "Robert, you're a narcissist, you know?" I wrote a chapter on, on, uh, on the dark side. I go, "Robert, you have a dark side." The same thing with the chapter on aggression. And, like, what is my dark side? And, you know, I had to analyze it and deal with it and think about it, and think about how I, my, any success I've had in life is because I managed to use those, that dark, those dark emotions in my work and channeled them because-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... they have c- tremendous energy to them. They power you forward. So I had anger coming out of working in Hollywood.
- 36:49 – 42:23
Seduction in long-term relationships: effort, surprise, and deep listening
- LHLewis Howes
What about when you're in a relationship and you want the relationship to work long term? You wanted to have... Whether you're getting married and you wanna s- you know, you wanna last, and you don't wanna just hang on to the marriage and be miserable, but you want it to be a happy, thriving existence. Healthy, conscious, loving, to the best of your ability. Should we continue to seduce our partners in committed long-term relationships, or is that not something you do once you're in a relationship?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, I have a chapter in THE ART OF SEDUCTION that deals with... I think it's twen- the last chapter. And basically, I think, um, a lot of people complain. It used to be women complained about it, but I think it transcends that, where we've been in a relationship for a year-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... and all the things that... I'm going in hearing the woman talk, because I've heard this before.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Everything that he used to do, he doesn't do anymore.
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- RGRobert Greene
He doesn't take me special places. He doesn't make that extra effort. He doesn't buy me special gifts anymore. All the things that he, he did when he wanted to have sex. He was, like, going crazy and doing all these, these things. He was dressing really well. Now he kind of dresses like a slob.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
He kind of doesn't wanna go out anymore. I hear that more than I hear the opposite. Like, "He keeps trying to seduce me, and I'm getting tired of it."
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
I don't hear that too much.
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- RGRobert Greene
But I hear that he's taking me for granted, right? So it's not like you're practicing the same things that you did when you were trying to get that other person to fall in love with you. That would be exhausting, right? And I don't think it would really work.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
But it's that you still do some of the effort, right? You still try to surprise the other person. You still have sides of your character that they don't know about. You do things that they've never seen before. You ta- you still take them to places. You still put effort into buying gifts, right? You buy that special gift. You still take effort to take them one night to a special restaurant or to a movie that they... Something that they hadn't. You know, like, if you understand, if you listen deeply to that other person and they reveal their secret desires and what they're not getting from the world, just take that in and go, "If I give her a gift or take her to a place that feels that very thing that she said she's not getting, man, that'll have such a powerful effect on that person." Even if you've been in a relationship for two or three years.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
And I've been in a relationship for, for, for decades, I'm afraid to have to admit.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
And you still have to go through that process.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
What is the questions you can ask to find out someone's secret desires without saying, "What are your secret desires?"
- RGRobert Greene
You just have to listen. They're, they... Okay, so the main thing is get them to talk about their childhood.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah. I mean-
- LHLewis Howes
What would you-
- RGRobert Greene
... not obviously. Don't go, "Tell me about your father. [laughs] Does he, was he nice to you?" You know, you know, just-
- LHLewis Howes
What question can you ask in an organic, relaxed way that would open that up, do you think?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, in the course of a context, you, you can say, um, you know, are... I, I don't know. It's like, a- are, how are you close to your parents? Do, uh, do you see them? Um-
- 42:23 – 1:03:43
Choosing partners: emotional/spiritual “meshing,” trauma patterns, and healing first
- LHLewis Howes
So what, what should people be aware of when they're getting into a relationship? What do you think are a few questions they should ask and get answers to to see if it's a potential for a good relationship, or it's gonna be completely off, or they're just wasting their time trying to get into this? Are there any questions you can think of?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, no, I can't think of questions. It's more like-
- LHLewis Howes
Or should it be asking, how is your parents' relationship, and this and that?
- RGRobert Greene
It's not that direct. It's not that verbal. It's not that intellectual.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
It's more of a, a kind of a spirit meshing-
- LHLewis Howes
Ah
- RGRobert Greene
... between two people, right? So there are plenty of examples of, of couples that have done extremely well, where they kind of disagree on political issues, although that can be a problem as well. But there's a little bit of tension on that, but they connect on some deeper level. I refer people-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... to that chapter I was just talking about in The Laws of Human Nature, where there's a level where we connect to people that is not on the surface, that is kind of non-verbal. It has to do with our unconscious. It has to do with things that we've never been able to get from our parents or whatever, and we've kind of have these ideals that have been unmet. And connecting on that level, connecting on the level of spirit, where your emotions ... You have ... It's more like your emotions, um, vi- mesh together well than your ideas. Like, there's ... You know?
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
And, um, because if that other person is, is incredibly, um, dramatic and out there, and, you know, that's not something you can ... Even though they have the similar ideas to you, it's gonna grate on your nerves, you know?
- LHLewis Howes
I saw a post recently, [clears throat] excuse me, about something like, I'm gonna mess this up, but something like you don't, you don't marry the person. You marry the person's, like, trauma. You marry their, you know, in-laws' trauma.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
You marry, like, what they haven't healed yet. You marry their emotional-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... um, you know, their relationship to certain things. You're, you're marrying the emotions-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... of the person really.
- RGRobert Greene
Yes, exactly.
- LHLewis Howes
And being aware, like, just because they look great and just because we have fun together certain times-
- RGRobert Greene
Right
- LHLewis Howes
... you're really marrying all the other stuff along with it.
- RGRobert Greene
Right, and you won't find that out right away.
- LHLewis Howes
Because they're good at hiding it.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Right? They're good at, like, reserving that until six months, a year, two years later.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Right?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- 1:03:43 – 1:10:08
Power over yourself: know who you are, detach from external programming, and find uniqueness
- RGRobert Greene
they have. So those would be the three things. It all starts with something very simple, which is the power over yourself. If you have no power over yourself, then you're at the whim of everything else in this world, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
So what does that mean to have power over yourself? Well, we can s- w- and this is a lot of what I talk about in The Daily Laws. It begins, it begins with something very simple, which is you have to know who you are, right? So you're walking around in this world. You don't know who, really who you are. You don't know what your needs are, what you really desire in your life because you're in, you're a product of social media. You're a product of what other people are telling you you should like, what your parents tell you, what your friends tell you. You don't know who you are, what drives you, what really motivates you deep down, and so you're kind of wandering in life. And when you're unmoored from yourself, everything else will affect you in a way that you cannot control, right?
- LHLewis Howes
When you're un- what from yourself?
- RGRobert Greene
Unmoored.
- LHLewis Howes
What's that mean?
- RGRobert Greene
When you don't have an anchor.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay.
- RGRobert Greene
Like, a moor is like an anchor.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay.
- RGRobert Greene
So, um-
- LHLewis Howes
You gotta speak in simple terms to me over here. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Oh, sorry. [laughs] Maybe it's my pronunciation.
- LHLewis Howes
No, it's okay. No, no, no. I don't know what the word is. That's what I'm saying. Unmoored, gotcha.
- RGRobert Greene
Okay. So, um, it's like a boating term.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
So, um, you know, if, if you don't know, like-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... what you were intended to do in life, like what your career was that meshes with you well, right? You're gonna be making all of these wrong decisions, and you're gonna... Things, people will do things to you that you won't be able to understand why you're reacting the way you're reacting.
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- RGRobert Greene
You'll get lost. You'll end up in blind alleys with your career, and then you'll go, "Man, I'm so helpless. I have no power. I have no control. The world is against me. It's 2021. It's the pandemic. It's..." Well, no, it's you. It starts inside of you. The real problem is in you, not in the world, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
You don't know who you are, and it's not easy. I have sympathy for people because we're so distracted. We're so much in our phones. We're so much listening to what other people are telling us is cool on Instagram, on TikTok, on Facebook, et cetera. We're like creatures of media. We've been programmed. We don't know really what drives us anymore. We s- we're so tuned to what other people are telling us is what we should be interested in, right? So it's not easy. It takes, it takes some time. It takes some reflection, right? That means that you have to be, have to have the ability to step back, be alone, be alone with your thoughts, and as this book is talking about, meditate and reflect on your childhood, on who you are, on the m- mistakes you've made, on the wrong career paths you've taken, on the wrong relationships you've taken.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
And begin to construct an image of that real secret inner, the true Lewis Howes-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... that lies buried deep within, all the [censored] that-
- LHLewis Howes
Ooh
- RGRobert Greene
... people have added onto it. If you can't control yourself, you can't con- if you don't know yourself, you can't control your own emotions. You're gonna be reacting to everything that comes your way without having an understanding why you're doing that. So when you know yourself, you know, "I don't need to get angry about this-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- 1:10:08 – 1:26:53
From “nothing to show” to breakthrough: faith, failure, and urgency about time
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah. Well, I mean, very q- simply, quickly, um, you know, I, I graduated college. I, I, um, wandered around Europe kind of trying to write the Great American Novel. I lived in Paris. I lived in Spain. I lived in London, had all kinds of seductions. I had a great life, a lot of fun. Then I come back to New York. It's time to get serious-
- LHLewis Howes
Yes
- RGRobert Greene
... and get into journalism. I kind of, I started off successfully. I worked at Esquire, but then I, I didn't really like journalism, and it kinda wasn't working. And then after four years, I go, "This isn't right for me." Go back to Europe. I wander around. I try to write another novel, fail again. Um, I come back to LA to try and make it in the film business, and it doesn't work well, and I'm a failed screenwriter. I work for various film directors, but I can't sell a single one of my screenplays.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- RGRobert Greene
And here I am, 35, 36. You know, I have a lot of skill. I've learned writing for, for film. I've learned writing for journalism. I've been writing novels. I have skill. I have discipline. I have research ability, but I have nothing to show for it.
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- RGRobert Greene
Absolutely nothing. I was a nobody, and this man whom I met, who... You know, I've told the story many times. I pitched the idea of THE 48 LAWS OF POWER. He thought it was great, but you know, there's a big difference between pitching something and making it happen. But because I had been so disciplined and I'd been writing all this time, I could, I could actually, you know, meet his expectations and write a proposal that would get him excited. But I had nothing to back up my con-
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
To answer your question, I had nothing to back up my confidence-
- LHLewis Howes
Right
- RGRobert Greene
... that this book would be good. Just simply having a sense it's a book about power, and I understood instinctively that power is about kind of going your own way, you know? Enter action with boldness.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
That's gonna be one of my chapters. Then I'm gonna be all weak and timid about my book and how it has to be like other books. Then I'm a hypocrite. So I was bold. We were bold, and it turned out well.
- LHLewis Howes
So you were 39 when the book came out, a lo- pretty much 40 years old with nothing to show for your life except for lots of experience, but not a bunch of success or accomplishments.
- RGRobert Greene
No, no success, no accomplishments. My parents were starting to give up on me.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs] So you turned 40, and the book really didn't take off right away, right? Didn't it take some time for it to kind of-
- RGRobert Greene
It, it did, it did well. I mean, um, it got attention. We got a lot of press for it. It kind of stirred, because it's a weird book, kind of stirred up some interest, and it was selling. Um, but it's selling much more now than it did back then.
- LHLewis Howes
Really?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
20-something years later?
- RGRobert Greene
Oh, man, we've been... Yeah, like, during the pandemic, the sales have skyrocketed.
- LHLewis Howes
No way.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
That's crazy.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
So how'd you have confidence to, to claim your inner power after years and years of trying things and not working out the way you wanted, kind of trying something else? How did you stay consistent with your inner power and not lose sight of at least trying new things?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, um, it's a great question, and, um, it's not an easy answer, but-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... and it's might even sound a little bit insane, to be honest with you.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- 1:26:53 – 1:50:03
Turning tragedy into fuel: stroke recovery, fear, death, and alchemy of attitude
- LHLewis Howes
You've had a, a pretty positive attitude, I think, in the last couple years. I'm curious, what has been the biggest lesson for you with going through a massive stroke, uh, where it's hindered your relationships, where it's hindered your physical activity, your ability to work on the things you're passionate about? What's been the big lessons?
- RGRobert Greene
Well, I'm a very driven person.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
So I wasn't gonna let this defeat me, because the alternative was, was losing hope and becoming suicidal, and I wasn't gonna let that happen.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
Also, I knew I had another book that I really, really wanted to write, so I had to keep living, you know? And I was in a coma for a while, and things were a little bit touch-and-go during that. And I feel like there was something willed inside of me unconsciously that kept me alive. The other weird thing is I spend a lot of my time alone, swimming, hiking, writing. It just so happened, just by c- coincidence, that my... I was driving when my wife was there, and so I have a feeling that I kind of almost was ready to have my stroke once she was there. I can't say that for sure. These are, you know, weird kind of psychic-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... almost kind of thoughts. But I felt like there was some willpower in me that was keeping me alive so I could keep going. But the main lesson was, um, I... It's, it's been a struggle. I can't say it's been easy. I can't, like, lie and say I've just figured it all out and I'm this incredible superhuman being. I've had moments where I've cried.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
I've had moments where I felt like giving up. It's, it's like a daily struggle. And I... Other people, you know, I know a lot of people in this world suffer. They have it a lot worse than I do. I have my c- a comfortable life. I have a lot of money. I have my books, et cetera. But on the level of, like, my body, just every day has been a struggle. You know, I wake up, "Can I walk? Will I fall? Can I hold this in my hand?" D- so dependent on other people. I'm a very independent person.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
So I've had to really, really work on myself and really develop a lot of patience, which I don't have.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
And the, the thing is, when you get an illness like this or something happens like that, the natural thing is just to sort of wait it out and wait until your body recovers. And people said I would have a full recovery two years down the line or so. So the tendency would be just to let it go and let time take its healing process. But I wouldn't let that. I don't know why.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
But I was like, "No, I'm gonna work out every single day."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
"I'm gonna do therapy two or three hours a day." I bought a special bicycle, because I can't do a normal bicycle.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
It's a recumbent bike, where you sit down. Man, it's like the hardest thing. You have to get up these incredible hills, and, like, 80-year-old grandmothers are whizzing by me on their bicycle.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs] This is outdoors?
- RGRobert Greene
Outdoors.
- LHLewis Howes
[clears throat]
- RGRobert Greene
In the park, yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Wow.
- RGRobert Greene
But I'm just, I'm just determined to beat the thing, and sometimes it beats me. So every day is like a battle. You know, it's like a boxing match. Who's gonna win? But I'm not gonna give up. I just keep trying and trying. I'm going to see a new therapist. I'm working on new exercises.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
I'm working on different parts of my body. I'm trying to build strength in certain muscles so I can start walking normally. 'Cause as you know, working out, swimming and hiking and bicycling, that was, like, my main way of de-stressing. I loved it. I love being out in nature. I love being alone with my thoughts. And to have that ripped away, it was like having, you know, part of your whole body taken away from you.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
So, um, but, uh, you know, I'm pretty relentless.
- 1:50:03 – 2:02:33
Confidence, money, and attraction: what’s really being judged
- LHLewis Howes
How do we develop seduction with money i- in- involved in a relationship?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And how do we- Stay in a healthy relationship and not allow money to ruin the relationship
- RGRobert Greene
Well, money isn't just money
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
Money is a sign. Money is something that has psychology, has other things attached to it. So let's just say it's a woman who is finding herself losing her attraction to a man because he's not making any money, right? That could be because it's a sign that he doesn't have enough ambition, he doesn't have enough drive. Or it could be a sign that he's just finding himself, and eventually he'll, he'll, he'll discover it. But you, you kind of turned off a, a lot of women, and I think, you know, yeah, it's mostly women, by the fact that this person doesn't have any drive, has no ambition. They're not trying to make something of their life, right? And so it's not about the money that they're, it's the fact that there's something missing in them, right? That kind of masculine energy
- LHLewis Howes
Mm
- RGRobert Greene
... such as masculine. Women have great drive to make money as well. I don't mean to put it that way. But that kind of drive, that energy that makes them wanna get ahead
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... can be very seductive and very powerful.
- LHLewis Howes
That's powerful for women to see that in men.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
And to re- se- sense that he's just kind of a slacker.
- LHLewis Howes
[laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
Okay, maybe he's got good qualities, maybe he's a wonderful person, and that's fine. And then the money isn't a problem. You don't care. But maybe what, if you do care, it's because it reveals something about their character, right?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
The other thing is generosity in a relationship is very important, right? It's not just giving money, but it's also giving your energy, giving your time to the other person. So a lot of m- a classic ex- um, uh, turnoff that men will do is that they're, they're not so generous with money, time, attention, et cetera
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
And it's a sign of something closed inside of them. So, you know, they don't wanna pay for a meal, they don't wanna pay for something, they don't wanna spend money on a, on a, on a nice gift or whatever. It's not the money. It's the sign that someone isn't generous in their spirit, in their heart. They're not willing to take risks
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
Right? That's, that'd be another thing that the lack of money will say. You know, to start a business and fail would not be such a bad, I don't think would be such a turnoff as opposed to never starting a business, as to always talking about, "Oh, I could have been great. I could have done this," but never trying. 'Cause it reveals a lack of, of, of security about yourself and confidence. 'Cause confidence is a key quality
- LHLewis Howes
Mm.
- RGRobert Greene
So I think money is often a sign of something else, a- another problem. It's revealing something about their character. You know? I mean, it could be he's, he or she isn't pulling in their weight, and that, that's an issue
- LHLewis Howes
Oh.
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah. I can s- and I, and I kind of resent that.
- LHLewis Howes
Right
- RGRobert Greene
But that's not about the money. That's about the other person not carrying enough to pull their weight
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
Or to not thinking about the other person's needs.
- 2:02:33 – 2:43:34
Skills around craft: marketing, power dynamics, and building a ladder of goals
- LHLewis Howes
What are a couple skills you wish you would've mastered earlier in life that maybe you've mastered now, but or maybe you haven't yet, that you wish you would've?
- RGRobert Greene
Uh, I wish I had mastered a three-point jump shot. [laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
Okay. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
No. [laughs]
- LHLewis Howes
Three-point jump shot. Yeah. You a two-hand shooter? Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
No. Um, I don't know, um, because when it came time to write that book, I had learned a lot about researching.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
You know, um, maybe about, like, marketing.
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- RGRobert Greene
'Cause I'm not very good at that, to be honest with you. That's why I rely on people like Ryan Holiday-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah. [laughs]
- RGRobert Greene
... who know their [censored] -
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah
- RGRobert Greene
... as opposed to me, who knows nothing.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
So I wish I had been a little smarter about things like that, 'cause I was so much in my head, into my books and my research writing, that I never really paid attention.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- RGRobert Greene
Wish I'd been a little-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm
- RGRobert Greene
... more hard-edged that way.
- LHLewis Howes
Learn about promotion and marketing?
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
It's true, 'cause my, my brother, who's, uh, one of the, the best jazz violinists in the world-
- RGRobert Greene
Really?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, he's arguably the number one in the world at jazz violin, and, uh, he said there's so many talented artists that think they're gonna be discovered, like in their basement or something. But you have to learn how to master your art, and then how to master the art of selling yourself.
- RGRobert Greene
Definitely.
- LHLewis Howes
Because if no one knows who you are, then you're not gonna have opportunities. You're not gonna be able to monetize your craft, your art-
- RGRobert Greene
Yeah
- LHLewis Howes
... or have, you know, provide a lifestyle for yourself. So and if, and if no one is aware of your, your art, then you're doing a disservice to the world by just hiding it for yourself or for a couple friends.
- RGRobert Greene
A lot of artists have that problem, is they think that that kind of sullies the, the, the, the, you know, what they're producing. Um, and you know, they're afraid of, of that part of the game, but that's why a lot of artists fail.
Episode duration: 3:05:11
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Transcript of episode eMwh2Dyzat8
