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This Is Why You FEEL LOST, LAZY & UNMOTIVATED In Life... | Brené Brown

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Dr. Brené BrownguestLewis Howeshost

Sep 13, 201759mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

60 min read · 11,661 words

0:00 – 5:59
Feeling Alone Despite Success and Belonging to Yourself
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  We can't ever get rid of shame. What we can do is develop resilience to shame. So when it happens and it washes over, that warm wash that makes you feel small and not enough.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  When that washes over me, rather than yelling at my kids or just decimating myself with s- hateful language, you know, and like, "You're stupid," or, "You're not..." You know. Now when it washes over me, I'm like, "Okay, I'm in shame. Don't talk, text, or type what happened."
4. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So there are still-
6. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... I mean, I still have triggers around it. [upbeat music]
8. LHLewis Howes
  Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm very excited today. We have the incredible Brené Brown on. Thank you so much for having me.
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Thanks for coming to Texas.
10. LHLewis Howes
  I really appreciate it. Yes, I'm very excited to be here. Uh, we have an event called the Summit of Greatness every year, an annual event, and the people on my team in our program write down the person that they wanna have on the School of Greatness. And most of our team is women, and most of them put your name down as the people, the person we wanna have on.
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Great.
12. LHLewis Howes
  So we're finally making it happen, and my team can stop asking for Brené. It's happening. And, uh, I'm very excited about this 'cause you have a new book out called Braving the Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone. Make sure you guys get this book right now. It's gonna change the game. Um, and I got a chance to go through it. Love everything that you, you write about in here, and I feel very connected to you.
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah?
14. LHLewis Howes
  Because I felt very alone for almost my entire life. I felt like I didn't belong anywhere. I was the youngest of four. I was always picked on, bullied. Uh, I was sexually abused when I was a kid by a man that I didn't know. I was always picked last on sports teams, and I know you weren't even picked for, I think it was the step team or some type of, uh-
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Oh yeah, the drill team
16. LHLewis Howes
  ... da- the drill team.
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
18. LHLewis Howes
  I remember how-
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
20. LHLewis Howes
  ... you know, that made, that kind of transformed your life and-
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  It was defining
22. LHLewis Howes
  ... defining, right? These moments that we go through as kids can really define and shape us. And so I'm just, I feel connected to you in that sense that I felt very alone and didn't know who I was for a very long time, and still am trying to learn who I am.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. Me too.
24. LHLewis Howes
  And... You are?
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
26. LHLewis Howes
  But you seem like you have it all figured out.
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Oh, God. No, I don't. No, I don't have a... I mean, first of all, I think the one thing I've learned in my research above all else is that in the absence of love and belonging, there's always suffering.
28. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So when I hear about your experiences growing up, that's suffering.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
5:59 – 9:33
Fitting In vs. Belonging and Knowing Who You Are
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  No, yeah, 'cause that's what, that's what teams and groups deliver.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  They deliver this thing that you're not alone.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  The problem is there's just... I was so shocked to learn in the research that the opposite of belonging is fitting in. Because fitting in is assessing a group of people-
6. LHLewis Howes
  Oh
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... and thinking, "Who do I need to be? What do I need to say? What do I need to wear? How do I need to act?" And changing who you are. And true belonging never asks us to change who we are. It demands that we be who we are. Because if we, if we bel- if we fit in because how we've changed ourselves, that's not belonging. That's not belonging because you betrayed yourself for other people.
8. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And that's not sustainable.
10. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, you start to lose yourself.
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You start to lose yourself. Exactly what you said. And so I think it's hard. You have to show up as who you are.
12. LHLewis Howes
  How do we find out who we are?
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  That's the life's work, right?
14. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  That's fricking hard. Um, you just keep-
16. LHLewis Howes
  Do you know who you are?
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Uh, yeah, I do.
18. LHLewis Howes
  Who are you?
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  [laughs] Uh, in what way?
20. LHLewis Howes
  If, if someone just said, "Who are you, Brené?" What would you say?
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Uh, Brené Brown. Mm. Mom, partner, researcher, storyteller, Texan. I don't know. I ask them how much time they have.
22. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Because, you know, the thing is that we want to... When we ask people who they are and we wanna know, we like those really easy files to put them in.
24. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, of course.
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  But I'm a complicated person.
26. LHLewis Howes
  Are you?
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. And so I think I know who I am.
28. LHLewis Howes
  What makes you complicated?
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I don't know if I'm complicated, but I'm complex.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
9:33 – 12:05
Maya Angelou's Quote and the Danger of Adapting to Be Liked
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You can lose yourself in the fitting in, and you can lose yourself in the rebuttal to the fitting in.
2. LHLewis Howes
  It's true. Trying to go against it all too.
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. It's really hard. I mean, it's the saying that... It's a, it's a quote that is, Braving the Wilderness is all about this, starts with this quote from Maya Angelou that you're, we're never free until we belong nowhere, which... We belong everywhere, which is nowhere, which is no place at all, which I thought was a terrible quote for many years.
6. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I was like, "Why are you saying that, Dr. Angelou? You're pissing me off."
8. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, but then I realized really the f- and she says the, "The cost is high, but the reward is great." And I think, I think that's the thing, that I feel like I belong everywhere I go, no, no matter where it is or who I'm with as long as I never betray myself.
10. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And the minute I become who you want me to be in order to fit in and make sure people like me is the moment I no longer belong anywhere.
12. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And that is hard.
14. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. It's really hard.
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I mean, that's a hard practice. That's a everyday practice.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah, 'cause I can, I can be whoever you want me to be like that.
18. LHLewis Howes
  You're like a chameleon, you said.
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Oh, I can be totally like a chameleon. Like, sometimes it's really funny because, like, I always, 'cause I travel so much, I have all these miles. I always sit, sit in business class, and I'm normally the, uh, the only woman in business class.
20. LHLewis Howes
  Uh-huh.
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, every now and then there's one other maybe, which is a conversation we should be having too.
22. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs] Sure.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, but it doesn't matter what dude sits next to me. Like, I can talk about whatever that person like. And it's so funny because we'll talk about sports usually first or football, or we'll talk about politics. And he'll say, "What do you do?"
24. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I'll say, "I study vulnerability and shame." "Oh, well, huh, well, I'm gonna play some Angry Birds."
26. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Uh, you know, and right that moment, like-
28. LHLewis Howes
  Right
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... I can just... And it's, it's not that I know everything about everything, it's just...
30. LHLewis Howes
  So you're saying most men don't wanna chime in and, and learn more about that? [laughs]
12:05 – 18:43
High School, Family Culture, and Her Parents' Growth
1. LHLewis Howes
  When would you say is the time in your life you've been the most alone?
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  High school It's the whole journey Yeah, it just sucked. It does suck. It do- and you know, my daughter just graduated from high school. [laughs] And she had this amazing experience. Mm. You know, just, just incredible experience. And, um, it was so healing to watch. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, and I think it happened because she... I think she had the confidence to put herself out there, and sh- you know, student council president and the, you know, that kind... I think because we have a rule at our house that no matter what, you belong here. Mm. No matter how goofy, awkward, afraid, wrong, it doesn't matter. You belong here. And so I think when we give our kids a platform like that at home, it gives them the courage to take risks outside of home. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? 'Cause they feel safe coming back. Yeah. No matter what happens- Yeah ... they always have a place to come home to. Yeah. And I grew up in a house where it was very chaotic. I'm the oldest of four, and fitting in and being cool was the most important thing. So I think without that pressure, I probably would have never tried out for that drill team. Um, but in- Mm ... in my, in my world growing up, you only did two things. You were a cheerleader or you were on the drill team, and preferably you married a running back or a quarterback. Right. I mean, that was the way it went. Yeah. Um, and so for me, I probably would've been, like, president of the French club, you know, or I would've been in debate or those kind of things. The newspaper or debate. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Photographer for the yearbook. Yeah. Um, but those things did not have a lot of value. Really? Not, no. Your parents didn't instill that as something credible or worthwhile? No, it's just I... Cool was the number one- Mm ... value at home. Cool, lots of friends, popular. Yeah. And that just wasn't my... I wasn't that thing. Mm. You know? I was... Yeah, I wasn't. And so what I did is I just started drinking, smoking weed, hanging out with... You know, I found, I found a place to be, you know, cool. Mm-hmm. And yeah, that just goes bad fast. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had a conversation with your parents about this? Oh, yeah, we've talked about all of it. You have? Yeah. You've let it go. You've processed it all or- Oh, yeah, 'cause they, you know, they read my books as I write them. Uh-huh, sure. And they're, you know, they're like, "Shit, this is exactly what every parent wants- [laughs] ... a child who grows up to be a shame researcher." [laughs] Right. Um, but no, they just... That's the miracle of my parents. Like, my parents, they've taught me the best thing about parenting that anyone I think could ever know, which is it doesn't end when your kids leave. Mm. Like, they keep growing and exploring and, um, lear- you know, and however hard it was for me not being able to be vul- you know, we did not do vulnerability growing up. Really? No, no, no, no. Like, yeah, like our family motto was literally lock and load. Mm. Like, get ready, you know, family trips, you're in the car for five hours, that's all six of us. You really have to go to the bathroom, but the rest stop is on the other side of the highway. We're not pulling over. Like- Hold it ... suck it up. Yeah. Hold it. Like, we were tough. We were tough. Mm. Like, we'd fall down and get hurt, you know, my dad would say, like, "I got bigger scratches than that on my eyeball." You know, like- [laughs] That hurt, right ... you know, yeah, like we were tough. And so- Mm ... and we were, and we were taught to outrun vulnerability. We were taught to suck it up- Yeah ... soldier on, get 'er done. Yeah. And so however hard that was for me growing up, imagine what it was like for my parents in the '50s. Mm. You know, my dad, who was the youngest of six, his dad died when he was 16. You know, um- Was he able to process that or no? No, he just did the next thing you do. Right. Played football, played college ball. Yeah. Um, my mom, who's... My grandmother, who I named my daughter after her, was an alcoholic. And she was drunk every other day of my mom's life. Wow. But she was the most amazing person in the world, but everyone knew she was an alcoholic, so my mom wasn't allowed to have friends at our, at her house growing up because it was the '50s, and she was divorced. Mm. You know, and so my mom became the head of the drill team and the h- the, you know, the valedictorian. And, and so however hard it was for me growing up, having to try to outrun vulnerability, it was a million times harder on my parents. Yeah. And they didn't... They did what they knew how to do, and they loved us as much as they could love us with the tools they had. And so I don't have... I think the hard part comes from people that I've interviewed my whole life, where the parents don't grow and change. Yeah. And they see anything a child trying to do differently as criticism of what they did, as opposed to my parents, who lean in and say, "Tell me more about that." Mm. "Tell..." I have a funny story. You wanna hear a funny story about my dad? Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's great. So we do a lot of choice theory with my daughter and my son. And so choice... My husband's a pediatrician. Okay. So, like, we, we know a lot about child development from our, just from school. Right. And so when our, when Ellen was little, we used to do this thing where we would say, um, you know, "You have two choices." Like, "Lewis, you have two choices. You can either hand me the water or I'm gonna have to take it from you." Uh-huh. "What is your choice? So that if you decide not to hand it to me and I have to take it, it's not my fault." That was your choice. That was your choice. That was your choice, right. Yeah, yeah. And so one, one night I was talking to Ellen and we were at my dad's house in San Antonio, and I was like, "Ell- E- Ellie, you need to turn off Dora the Explorer. It's time to go to bed." And she's like, "Mm-mm." And I said, "Ellen, you have two choices. You can get up and turn off the TV, or I'm gonna get up and turn it off for you. And if I have to get up and, you know, turn off the TV, you're gonna lose privileges to watch it tomorrow." And that's your choice. Yeah, that's your choice. Yeah. So do... You know, and I would hate that for you- Mm ... but that will be your choice. And my dad was sitting in the recliner next to me, and he's like, "Ah, damn, sis, what are you raising, a hostage negotiator?" [laughs] And I was like, "Dad." And he's like, "Seriously, Brené? We had four of y'all. We didn't have time for that." Yeah. So the next day I come home, I'm visiting friends in San Antonio, and he's watching Ellen. And he's in the driveway. It's like 110 degrees [laughs] in San Antonio, and he's sweating. He's like, "Ellen, you have two choices." [laughs] "You can either put the bicycle up, or I'm gonna have to put it up for you. And the second one's a dumbass choice." [laughs] So I was like, "Wow, you're so close." [laughs] You're getting there. But you're getting there. But- You're getting there ... my parents are amazing in that way, that, like- They're learning and changing.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... I think it's harder when parents say, "I'm done. What you got was what you got."
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "No apologies. No change."
9. LHLewis Howes
  Take it or leave it.
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "No ifs. Take it or leave it."
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "And if you do it differently with your own kids, you're a sucker."
13. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I think we see that a lot.
18:43 – 22:38
Parenting, Shame, and Raising Kids Who Ask for Help
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, we do. I mean, what should parents be learning about how they can grow? I mean, how can they start to be aware? 'Cause I think it starts with being aware-
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah, for sure
3. LHLewis Howes
  ... of what they know and what they don't know, and being receptive to learning something different, which is really hard to do, I think-
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  It's hard
5. LHLewis Howes
  ... once you've had these habits for so long. Uh, so that's the first thing, and I wanna dive into the lack of vulnerability with what's happening in Charlottesville right now as well-
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
7. LHLewis Howes
  ... 'cause I know you did something on that this morning. So I guess how can parents listen to this and be aware, and be willing to move forward in a different way of learning something new when they're so stuck in their ways, potentially, that it's worked for them to this point to get to where they're at?
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know, I think... I believe this with my, my whole heart.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I believe that 99.9% of parents are truly waking up every day and doing the very best they can with what they have.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, I don't think there are a lot of parents w- who wake up and maliciously try to screw up their kids, or hurt their kids, or belittle or shame their kids. Um, I think we're doing the best we can with what we have. And so I think to let go of the idea that if I have done something that I could have done better, or that I could learn from, that I have to just come down... People defend their parenting-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... like they're defending their lives-
15. LHLewis Howes
  [clears throat]
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... because it's such a shame minefield.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know? I mean, and a great example is the work you're doing around men and vulnerability.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I cannot tell you the number of fathers, in the hundreds if not thousands, of fathers I've interviewed that said, "I shamed my son every time he was vulnerable."
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "I put him down. I made fun of him. I hit him-"
23. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "... every time he was vulnerable. And now I look back, and I know it's because that's the way I was raised, or I was afraid he'd be soft and get hurt at school," or, you know, whatever the thing is. And so I think for parents, it's about understanding, giving yourself permission to not have been... I'm not perfect. Like, you know, like, I've never not been a researcher and a parent.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  My husband's a pediatrician. Our kids will be in therapy.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Right. [laughs]
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And the reason why I think that'll be so successful is there's only two kinda kids you raise, kids who will ask for help when they need it or kids who won't, and that's as good as it gets, is to raise a kid who'll ask for help.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, I never asked for help.
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
22:38 – 25:28
Lewis's Dodgeball Vow and Men's Struggle with Vulnerability
1. LHLewis Howes
  I can definitely relate.
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
3. LHLewis Howes
  I mean, I remember being picked last on a, on a team once when it was a co-ed sport. We were playing dodgeball on the playground, I think it was third or fourth grade, and there was two captains, two guys. And they were picking one at a time, right?
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
5. LHLewis Howes
  And they pick, they-
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Oh, God. Brutal
7. LHLewis Howes
  ... they pick all the guys.
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
9. LHLewis Howes
  And then I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna be the last guy chosen."
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
11. LHLewis Howes
  But then they go and pick all the girls, and then they never pick my name. I'm just by default the last picker's team. And so as a, as a, you know, a boy trying to fit in, in third, fourth grade, it was devastating. And I told myself in that moment, I was like, "Never again will I be picked last at any sport."
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I'll do whatever it takes.
13. LHLewis Howes
  I'm going to be a machine. I'm gonna train for six hours a night. I'm going to, you know, take no prisoners mentality-
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
15. LHLewis Howes
  ... and just... I mean, I dominated on that dodgeball game that day. I was just, like, throwing the ball, like, just diving everywhere. I was like, never again, you know? 'Cause-
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And did you ever get pa- picked last again?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Never got picked last again.
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Right.
19. LHLewis Howes
  But, uh, and it helped me achieve, you know, I was all-state in multiple sports. I was all-American in two sports. I broke world records. I played professional football. I play on the USA handball team now. And it guided me towards achieving these things, but it left me feeling very unfulfilled-
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
21. LHLewis Howes
  ... every time I'd achieve them. Or any time we lose, it was like an attack on my life. Every loss we ever had in a, on a sport, it was like my life was at stake, and I felt like I was worthless. Because if I didn't win-
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
23. LHLewis Howes
  ... that meant no one was gonna accept me-
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
25. LHLewis Howes
  ... or I wasn't good enough-
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
27. LHLewis Howes
  ... or I was gonna be picked last or something.
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Right.
29. LHLewis Howes
  So I would take it so personally when I wouldn't win, and then I would take it out on my family, my girlfriends, my friends-
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
25:28 – 29:37
Vulnerability Is Courage: Brené's Question to Leaders
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I think it's changing, and I think I told you earlier-
2. LHLewis Howes
  Yes, it is
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... that I think 50% of the readers of Daring Greatly are men and a fift-
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... and the vast majority of leaders who bring me into organizations are men.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Are men.
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I'll tell you, I'll tell you why.
8. LHLewis Howes
  Wise men.
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I can, I can... [laughs] I hope.
10. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, I can flip it for you on a dime.
12. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm. Yeah.
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So it used to take me, when men would, when men would say... This is how the call would go. "Hey, we'd love for you to come in and work with our leadership team. Um, we saw your TED Talk. We thought it was great."
14. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, "Are you available?" And I'd say, "Sure. What do you want me to talk about?" And they'd say, "Anything but vulnerability and shame." And I would say...
16. LHLewis Howes
  Why? Yeah.
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  "So what do you want me to talk about-
18. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... if I don't talk about vulnerability?" And they'd say, "Courage." And then I would say, "Okay." Then I would try to spend, like, a half an hour-
20. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... explaining the relationship between vulnerability and courage.
22. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  'Cause all men wanna be brave.
24. LHLewis Howes
  Isn't vulnerability courage?
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Vulnerability is courage, so all I have to ask them-
26. LHLewis Howes
  Isn't vulnerability power?
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yes. I have to ask one question-
28. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... to flip the whole thing. It's this. Vulnerability is defined as uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure. Can you name one act of courage that you've ever been involved in or that you've ever even witnessed that did not involve uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure? And it's a loaded question 'cause I know the answer's no.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
29:37 – 33:55
Speaking Out on Charlottesville, Privilege and Humility
1. LHLewis Howes
  Is there an area of your life right now where you don't feel you're, you're courageous enough, or something you've been wanting to say to people that you haven't said fully or holding back on?
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I think the Charlottesville Facebook Live today-
3. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... was hard.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Was it?
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. It... Oh, yes. I was sh- My voice was shaking.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I was shaking. In fact, we got here today, and we knew we were gonna film us together, but we were gonna film some other stuff first. And I said, "I just need to do the Facebook Live-"
9. LHLewis Howes
  Wow
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... "because I don't wanna lose my courage."
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I think that's hard because when you're, when you talk about race and privilege and power-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... first of all, you're, I'm gonna get, like, you know, death threats, and people are gonna say, you know, all that stuff.
15. LHLewis Howes
  You're wrong either way-
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You're wrong either way
17. LHLewis Howes
  ... no matter what you say. Yeah.
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Right. Um, but the, the ability that I have to opt out of speaking out about it because it doesn't supposedly affect me-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... is the definition of privilege.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So I don't believe we can opt out of it.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And I know that I'm white, upper middle class, really educated. ... Judeo-Christian, straight, I know that I've got blinders on, that no matter how hard I work, I will say something that is not right.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And it will c- people will come back, and they will fire off against me around it, and it will hurt, but I'd rather take the chance in it hurting and learning, but it's always sc- it's scary to talk about this stuff today.
27. LHLewis Howes
  It- it's-
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Do you think? I think.
29. LHLewis Howes
  It's really hard, and I try to come from a place of, like, super authentic and loving of all humanity all the time.
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
33:55 – 38:40
Pain, Blame, and Our Inability to Face Discomfort
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And so I don't know that there's an answer other than discussions. And I'm not, I wasn't surprised about Charlottesville, really.
2. LHLewis Howes
  You weren't?
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  No.
4. LHLewis Howes
  I just, really, it just blows my mind.
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Mm-hmm.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Maybe I'm just ignorant to that.
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I don't, I don't think it's about being ignorant to it. It doesn't, you know, I've studied shame for 15 years, and fear.
8. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Like, that's what it looks like.
10. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. What do you think they're, th- these individuals marching like this are most shameful of in their own life? Why are they so, uh-
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I would, I would never venture to guess
12. LHLewis Howes
  ... protective?
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um-
14. LHLewis Howes
  You know?
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I, I don't know, but I do think it's about powerlessness.
16. LHLewis Howes
  They feel powerless.
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah, and I think that people go, "Oh, my God, okay, so the white, you know, the white guy in the khakis and the, you know, fancy polo shirt feels powerless, and, you know, cry me a river."
18. LHLewis Howes
  Right. [laughs]
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, I think we don't, we don't give a shit about that at our own peril.
20. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, not caring about it and not trying to understand it. I'm not taking it on my load, for sure.
22. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I mean, I'm not gonna add it to my back.
24. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I got other stuff to do. Um, but I am gonna try to understand it, because I can't imagine a way through what needs to happen over the next decade that does not involve understanding pain. There's this incredible James Baldwin quote that says, "Now I understand why people hold onto their hate so stubbornly, because once they let it go, there's nothing but pain."
26. LHLewis Howes
  Ooh.
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um-
28. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... and I think we, we dismiss and don't care about that pain at our own peril. Um, because pain will make itself known. It, it will not be dismissed. It's not an affect or an emotion that dissipates when it's ignored.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. Well, I think this is, this is fascinating you're saying this, because I never wanted to feel the emotional pain. It was so hard to go through.
38:40 – 43:22
Acknowledging Vulnerability Makes Teams Stronger
1. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Don't be soft. So it's actually our inability to be vulnerable-
2. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
3. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... that makes us weak.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, I agree. Uh, one of the things I talk about and try to express to as many people as possible is to actually put yourself through pain and discomfort every single day. I try to do this physically through working out, to try to push myself farther than I want to, where I'm like emotionally wanna cry.
5. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
6. LHLewis Howes
  'Cause I, I, I just know by conditioning myself to feel pain every single day that when a lot of stuff comes my way, I'm capable of taking it on and processing the emotions as opposed to being like, "I just need a drink. I need this."
7. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Right.
8. LHLewis Howes
  "I need that."
9. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Right.
10. LHLewis Howes
  Like, I've never been drunk in my life, so I don't even know what that feels like. But it's hard, especially as for myself, I'll speak for myself as a man, it's hard growing up learning how to deal with those type of emotions. It's really challenging. There's no class in school that says, "Okay, when you're feeling this way, Lewis, here's how you're supposed to act in the world."
11. BBDr. Brené Brown
  It's vulnerability.
12. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. "Here's how you're supposed to act."
13. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
14. LHLewis Howes
  "Here's the step-by-step process."
15. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Like, there's no process that we're taught unless it's our parents or we seek it out.
17. BBDr. Brené Brown
  And it's not modeled because I think parents fear kind of soft boys-
18. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
19. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... turning into soft men.
20. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
21. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Who, you know, I remember w- i- interviewing this guy who was in his 70s, and I said, "What is shame to you?" And he's like, "Shame is being the kid you can shove up against the lockers."
22. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
23. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
24. LHLewis Howes
  Shame is being the kid that you shove up?
25. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
26. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
27. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Being the kid that you can shove up against the lockers.
28. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
29. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know, and it's like... But really, we've gotta shift it, and we've gotta shift it. I think it starts parenting, school.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
43:22 – 47:31
Power Over's Last Stand and a Message to Leaders
1. LHLewis Howes
  Belonging, yeah.
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  But it... But underneath identity and belonging, there's something that we don't talk about, and it comes, it comes down to power. It comes down to power. I mean, I think what we're witnessing is-
3. LHLewis Howes
  You... Yeah
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... power over's last stand.
5. LHLewis Howes
  And that's what I love ta- you, you write about how I think most men who come from this place feel like power is only one person or one group can have the power-
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
7. LHLewis Howes
  ... as opposed to we can spread the power-
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah
9. LHLewis Howes
  ... throughout the world.
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Like it's a pepperoni pizza.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Like, if I give Lewis a little power-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Uh-huh
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... I'm gonna have less, so make sure I'm comfortable giving it to you.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  When it's not.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Don't give any slices away.
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Don't give slices away. Hold all the... And so what we see around the world right now, not just with this administration, but, uh, globally, is we see the concept of power over making a last stand, and it, and it, and it is not going to work. What is going to work moving forward with the completely devastatingly difficult problems we have at hand is power with and power to.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Power with each other, collective power. The things that are killing us right now, we're not going to solve by ourselves as a nation. They're global issues. We need global solutions. We need everyone at the table for them.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  But that is a really... I mean, we are at a huge turning point in history-
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... that should not be minimized or misunderstood. I mean, for the first time ever, the problems that challenge us, us, challenge us the, the most are problems that will not be solved with national solutions. They are global problems that require global solutions and collaboration. And for a lot of people, that's really scary.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Hard.
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Hard. Hard. What about us? What about me?
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know, um, and last stands, you know about last stands.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Last stands are violent.
47:31 – 50:55
A 60-Second Message to the Men of the World and Women's Shame Triggers
1. LHLewis Howes
  If you had a, uh, a microphone, and everyone had headphones on, was listening to the end of this microphone, and you got a message to share to all the men in the world within 60 seconds or less, and all the men were to put on headphones and hear a message from you-
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  It's very Orwellian. I like it. [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  And you got one chance to say something to these men from all over the world, and they could all understand English, and-
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Mm-hmm
5. LHLewis Howes
  ... they understood you.
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You're taking care of all the logistics for me.
7. LHLewis Howes
  All the logistics. They got it on the... It's not fuzzy. There's no Wi-Fi signal. It's all... Everyone's got access-
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Uh-huh
9. LHLewis Howes
  ... to hearing your voice for 60 seconds, all the men. And all the women are actually standing by listening as well. What would you say to all the men of the world in general?
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Golly. Um, you know, I wouldn't wanna screw that up.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Let me think. Um-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Go ahead.
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. I think I would say that vulnerability is not weakness. It's about the willingness to show up and be seen when you can't control the outcome, and it is actually our greatest measure of courage. So show up ... in an authentic way and let us see your hearts because we know how lonely you actually are.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm. Wow.
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah. Men are lonely.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  I mean, it's, it's, it's really, men are lonely. It's really hard.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, but I, I would not, I think that's, I don't think I would say anything differently to women as e- either.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know, because I think there is certainly, you know, for women the greatest shame trigger is do it all, do it perfectly, and never let them see you sweat. Look perfect, work perfect, look perfect.
23. LHLewis Howes
  In all areas.
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  In all areas.
25. LHLewis Howes
  The workforce, at home.
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah, be smoking hot-
29. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... and brilliant and this, but don't ever look like you're putting any effort toward it.
50:55 – 59:10
Shame Resilience, Owning Your Story, and the Closing Questions
1. LHLewis Howes
  Is there anything you feel ashamed of still?
2. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Oh, I have moments for sure.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
4. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Like, I will have moments of... But now I know. I mean, it's, we can't ever get rid of shame. What we can do is develop resilience to shame. So when it happens and it washes over, that warm wash that makes you feel small and not enough.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
6. BBDr. Brené Brown
  When that washes over me, rather than yelling at my kids or just decimating myself with hateful language, you know, and like, "You're stupid," or, "You're not," you know. Now when it washes over me, I'm like, "Okay, I'm in shame. Don't talk, text, or type what happened."
7. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
8. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So there are still-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
10. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... I mean, I still have triggers around it.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
12. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Um, I still have triggers around it. I still think it's probably the same, motherhood, trying to, you know, do everything and balance everything and be where I'm supposed to be, and that's still hard sometimes.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
14. BBDr. Brené Brown
  You know? Um-
15. LHLewis Howes
  What's the process that someone should take on when they feel shame, anger, rage-
16. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Well, shame is, shame I can-
17. LHLewis Howes
  ... vulnerability
18. BBDr. Brené Brown
  ... really help you with, is first and foremost, talk to someon- talk to yourself like you talk to someone you love. So if you really, if you, if something happens and you're overwhelmed with shame, the first thing you need to do is get back on your emotional feet. Don't talk, text, or type to anyone because the fir- one of the things we wanna do is push that shit out on other people.
19. LHLewis Howes
  I'm good at that.
20. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
21. LHLewis Howes
  I'm guilty of that.
22. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Yeah.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
24. BBDr. Brené Brown
  No, yeah.
25. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
26. BBDr. Brené Brown
  So just get into a dark, quiet place, and then talk to yourself like you'd talk to someone you love.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
28. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Just be like, "Dude, it's okay. Like, you screwed this up. You, what you said was super hurtful. You're gonna have to circle back and clean that stuff up. But give yourself a break here."
29. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
30. BBDr. Brené Brown
  Just like I would talk to Ellen or Charlie if they made a mistake.