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UNDERSTANDING THIS Will Change The Way You Live Life FOREVER... | Robert Greene & Lewis Howes

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Robert GreeneguestGreat Minds Lewis Howeshost

Dec 27, 20211h 26mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

80 min read · 16,431 words

0:00 – 4:14
Self-mastery starts with self-knowledge (and emotional control)
1. RGRobert Greene
  If you don't know yourself, you can't control your own emotions. You're gonna be reacting to everything that comes your way without having an understanding why you're doing that. I don't need to get angry about this.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
3. RGRobert Greene
  Because it's not something that touches me personally. It doesn't matter in the end. Whereas if you don't know who you are...
4. LHLewis Howes
  I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? [laughs]
5. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Please welcome Lewis Howes. What can people do to start the process of gaining inner power if they feel like they're powerless?
7. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah. Well, um, it all starts with something very simple, which is the power over yourself. If you have no power over yourself, then you're at the whim of everything else in this world, right?
8. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
9. RGRobert Greene
  So what does that mean to have power over yourself? Well, we can s- w- and this is a lot of what I talk about in the daily laws. It begins, it begins with something very simple, which is you have to know who you are, right? So you're walking around in this world. You don't know who, really who you are. You don't know what your needs are, what you really desire in your life because you've been... You're a product of social media. You're a product of what other people are telling you you should like, what your parents tell you, what your friends tell you. You don't know who you are, what drives you, what really motivates you deep down, and so you're kind of wandering in life. And when you're unmoored from yourself, everything else will affect you in a way that you cannot control, right?
10. LHLewis Howes
  When you're un- what from yourself?
11. RGRobert Greene
  Unmoored.
12. LHLewis Howes
  What's that mean?
13. RGRobert Greene
  When you don't have an anchor, like-
14. LHLewis Howes
  Okay
15. RGRobert Greene
  ... a moor is like an anchor.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Okay.
17. RGRobert Greene
  So, um-
18. LHLewis Howes
  You gotta speak in simple terms to me around here. [laughs]
19. RGRobert Greene
  Oh, sorry. [laughs] Maybe it was my pronunciation.
20. LHLewis Howes
  No, it's good. No, no, no. I don't know what the word is. That's what I'm saying. Unmoored, gotcha.
21. RGRobert Greene
  Okay. So, um, it's like a boating term.
22. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
23. RGRobert Greene
  So, um, you know, if, if you don't know, like-
24. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
25. RGRobert Greene
  ... what you were intended to do in life, like what your career was that meshes with you well, right, you're gonna be making all of these wrong decisions, and you're gonna... Things, people will do things to you that you won't be able to understand why you're reacting the way you're reacting.
26. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
27. RGRobert Greene
  You'll get lost. You'll end up in blind alleys with your career, and you'll go, "Man, I'm so helpless. I have no power. I have no control. The world is against me. It's 2021. It's the pandemic. It's..." Well, no, it's you. It starts inside of you. The real problem is in you, not in the world, right?
28. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
29. RGRobert Greene
  You don't know who you are, and it's not easy. I have sympathy for people because we're so distracted. We're so much in our phones. We're so much listening to what other people are telling us is cool on Instagram, on TikTok, on Facebook, et cetera. We're like creatures of media. We've been programmed. We don't know really what drives us anymore. We s- we're so tuned to what other people are telling us is what we should be interested in, right? So it's not easy. It takes, it takes some time. It takes some reflection, right? That means that you have to be, have to have the ability to step back, be alone, be alone with your thoughts, and as this book is talking about, meditate and reflect on your childhood, on who you are, on the mistakes you've made, on the wrong career paths you've taken, on the wrong relationships you've taken.
30. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
4:14 – 5:25
Uniqueness as the source of inner power
1. LHLewis Howes
  Right. What is the, what is the source of our inner power that we, that we maybe aren't even aware of?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Very simple. What makes you an individual, what makes you different, your uniqueness. That's what the first month in, in The Daily Laws is about, month of January. So if you look at people who are successful, you know, you look at L- a Lewis Howes-
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
4. RGRobert Greene
  ... or you look at a Steve Jobs or, uh, or Elon Musk or whomever, you say to yourself, "There's nobody else like them on the planet."
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
6. RGRobert Greene
  You may hate Elon Musk. You think, may think he's an egocentric maniac, but you can't tell me there's another person with those gut-
7. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
8. RGRobert Greene
  ... with that kind of guts-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Right
10. RGRobert Greene
  ... with that kind of confidence and with that kind of vision, right? Okay? Because he's one of a kind, right? And you're going around trying to imitate other people, trying to do what you think other people are doing. You're running away from your source of power.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. RGRobert Greene
  What makes you unique, what makes you even weird, what you may even be afraid of because it, it's so different from other people is your source of power.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
5:25 – 6:34
Betting on being different: the early fight to keep The 48 Laws of Power “weird”
1. RGRobert Greene
  It's what makes you a superman or, or, or woman or whatever. Yes. Um, so I don't wanna talk about myself too much because who's interested in that? But, um, you know, I write books that nobody else has the same kind of structure or the same kind of approach. That is my source of power, and very early on it was threatened. Th- I wrote The 48 Laws of Power. We finished it in 1998.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
3. RGRobert Greene
  The publisher had already purchased it, but they came back, and they go, "Robert, this book's a little weird."
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
5. RGRobert Greene
  You know, the structure, the things on the side. "We want you to change it. We want you to make it more like other books out there." And me and my partner might- the pack guy who packaged it, he b- he backed me up and we said, "No. We'll walk away from the deal. We'll find someone else." Because we knew that being different was, was the key to making this book a success. It could very easily fail. It could have bombed, but it would have failed in the right way, which is being yourself, doing something different, standing out, and not being afraid of what makes you unique.
6:34 – 9:46
Before success: decades of wandering, failed attempts, and transferable skills
1. LHLewis Howes
  And how old were you then when you launched that book?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Um, I was 39 when it came out.
3. LHLewis Howes
  39. Did you have a lot of success prior that would have shown this would have been a success?
4. RGRobert Greene
  Nope.
5. LHLewis Howes
  So you weren't some big shot writer that was getting-
6. RGRobert Greene
  Absolutely not
7. LHLewis Howes
  ... awards and other things.
8. RGRobert Greene
  I was the very opposite of that.
9. LHLewis Howes
  You, you were the opposite?
10. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah. Well, I mean, very q- simply, quickly, um, you know, I, I graduated college. I, I, um, wandered around Europe kind of trying to write the Great American Novel. I lived in Paris. I lived in Spain. I lived in London, had all kinds of seductions. I had a great life, a lot of fun. Then I come back to New York, it's time to get serious-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yes
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... and get into journalism. I kind of, I started off successfully. I worked at Esquire, but then I, I didn't really like journalism and it kinda wasn't working, and then after four years, I go, "This isn't right for me." Go back to Europe, I wander around, I try to write another novel. Fail again. Um, I come back to LA to try and make it in the film business, and it doesn't work well and I'm a failed screenwriter. I work for various film directors, but I can't sell a single one of my screenplays.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
14. RGRobert Greene
  And here I am, 35, 36. You know, I have a lot of skill. I've learned writing for, for film, I've learned writing for journalism, I've been writing novels. I have skill, I have discipline, I have research ability, but I have nothing to show for it.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
16. RGRobert Greene
  Absolutely nothing. I was a nobody. And this man whom I met, who... You know, I've told the story many times. I pitched the idea of The 48 Laws of Power. He thought it was great, but, you know, there's a big difference between pitching something and making it happen. But because I had been so disciplined and I'd been writing all this time, I could, I could actually, you know, meet his expectations and write a proposal that would get him excited. But I had nothing to back up my con-
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
18. RGRobert Greene
  ... to answer your question, I had nothing to back up my confidence-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Right
20. RGRobert Greene
  ... that this book would be good. Just simply having a sense it's a book about power, and I understood instinctively that power is about kind of going your own way. You know, interaction with boldness.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
22. RGRobert Greene
  That's gonna be one of my chapters. Then I'm gonna be all weak and timid about my book and how it has to be like other books. Then I'm a hypocrite. So I was bold, we were bold, and it turned out well.
23. LHLewis Howes
  So you were 39 when the book came out. A lo- pretty much 40 years old with nothing to show for your life, except for lots of experience, but not a bunch of success or accomplishments.
24. RGRobert Greene
  No, no success, no accomplishments. My parents were starting to give up on me.
25. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs] So you turned 40, and the book really didn't take off right away, right? Didn't it take some time for it to kind of...
26. RGRobert Greene
  It, it did, it did well. I mean, um, it got attention. We got a lot of press for it. It kind of stirred, because it's a weird book, kind of stirred up some interest. And it was selling. Um, but it's selling much more now than it did back then.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
28. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah.
29. LHLewis Howes
  20-something years later.
30. RGRobert Greene
  Oh, man, we've been... Yeah, like during the pandemic, the sales have skyrocketed.
9:46 – 15:12
Faith, meaning, and rebounding when you feel defeated
1. LHLewis Howes
  So how'd you have confidence to, to claim your inner power after years and years of trying things and it not working out the way you wanted, kind of trying something else? How did you stay consistent with your inner power and not lose sight of at least trying new things?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Well, um, it's a great question and, um, it's not an easy answer, but-
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
4. RGRobert Greene
  ... it is, might even sound a little bit insane, to be honest with you.
5. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
6. RGRobert Greene
  But, um, deep down inside, I always had kind of a weird faith in myself.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  I always had a sense that there was a destiny that was, that my life was following this certain path, that there was something fated to happen. Maybe it was a little bit grandiose, maybe it was kind of overconfidence. Because it would swing up and down. I would go from confidence to the deepest depression. But deep down inside, I never gave up because I knew I had something in me. You know, now if The 48 Laws of Power hadn't worked, I don't know if I would have gotten my act together.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
10. RGRobert Greene
  I might have been crushed by it, to be honest with you. Or maybe I would have picked myself up like I had picked myself up 30, 40 other times-
11. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... in the past when people told me, like this one editor, "Robert, you're never gonna be a good writer. You should go into business or law school." You know, I've been crushed several times, and I've picked myself up. But, um, you know, I don't know if that w- might have been the nail in my coffin-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
14. RGRobert Greene
  ... literally, at that point. But I had a voice inside of me saying, "You, you can write. I know you can write. I've seen you write, Robert. I've seen you write great things. You've never put it together, you never made it consistent, but you have a voice." And that, that inner voice of mine might have gotten smaller and smaller and smaller so I could barely hear it, but it never left me.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. How does someone give themselves m- more power when they feel defeated?
16. RGRobert Greene
  Well, we're coming back to the f- circling back to the original thing, you know?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
18. RGRobert Greene
  So if you know that you were destined for something and that you were fated for something-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
20. RGRobert Greene
  ... that you have a sense that your life had a meaning, a purpose-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
22. RGRobert Greene
  ... then you can withstand the traumas, the setbacks, the difficulties, the [censored] , criticism, and all the other things, right? So in Mastery, I talk about a very simple fact. When you were born, you have this DNA that will never be replicated in the history of the universe.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Crazy.
24. RGRobert Greene
  There will be another per- there will never be another person with your exact makeup, Lewis Howes. And on top of that, no one will ever have your exact parents and your upbringing and your early life. So there's only one of you that's ever existed, right? And that, there's a reason for that. There's a purpose behind it, and the purpose behind it is our culture, the same thing as in nature, thrives by the d- d- that diversity, the people coming at, into it with different angles, different perceptions, different ideas.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
26. RGRobert Greene
  That's what makes a, a culture creative, et cetera. It's why the Renaissance was so great. All right? So y- there's a purpose for you being who you are, right?
27. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
28. RGRobert Greene
  And it may not be that you were destined to be Napoleon or a president or whatever, but there is some kind of greatness in you waiting to come out, and it could be at just on the level of working with your hands. Working with your hands is a great skill. To be a master carpenter, to be a master builder with wood or whatever, that is a form of greatness.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Absolutely.
30. RGRobert Greene
  You were destined to do something like that, and it was in, like a seed was planted at your birth. But if you don't know what that is, then you can't find your way back to it. And if you're 24 and you're in my position and that man who's having his third martini says, "Robert, you're never gonna be a great writer. Go to business school," I would've gone to business school.
15:12 – 20:15
Why failure is necessary—and why not trying is worse
1. LHLewis Howes
  Do you think it's possible to accomplish your goals and achieve great things and be a success in whatever the def- definition is for you without going through multiple failures? Do you think it's possible to just be, "Um, just finished school, and now the first thing I do, it's just gonna work out, and everything just works"? Is that possible?
2. RGRobert Greene
  I'd say no.
3. LHLewis Howes
  No.
4. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah, because, um, it's just not how life goes, you know? I mean, I, I, I could... I mean, think of, like, the greatest athletes in the world, people who are at the, the top 00000.1% of, of the top of their profession. They're failing all of the time.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
6. RGRobert Greene
  They're not winning championships every year, right? Their, their careers go up and down, up... Everybody who's successful you will see ups and downs. We venerate Steve Jobs as perhaps the greatest tech entrepreneur. He went through an incredibly dark period after he founded the company. He got fired from Macintosh. He founded NeXT, which was a failure. He was as depressed as I was i- in the ni- in the mid-'90s.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  He didn't know what was going... And then he got his career resurrected with Apple on a second go. He had a career that went woo, woo, woo, like that, you know? I mean, you can take any name and you can find the same kind of trajectory.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
10. RGRobert Greene
  And it's because through failure you develop some, some toughness, some inner toughness.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
12. RGRobert Greene
  Right? You develop a thick skin. You're able to take it, right? Life involves adversity, and if you've only had everything good, the first time something happens that you don't expect, you're just gonna wilt.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
14. RGRobert Greene
  So I don't care who you are, there's always some- you've always s- people who are successful have always had some kind of failure of adversity. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to, to stay on-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Right
16. RGRobert Greene
  ... to rebound.
17. LHLewis Howes
  A lot of people are afraid to f- to create something because they don't wanna fail. They're afraid to start, launch, create, whatever it might be, post, because they don't wanna fail. What do you think is worse than failure? If failure is actually a good thing for a lot of people to help them learn and grow, what is worse than failing?
18. RGRobert Greene
  Not trying.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
20. RGRobert Greene
  So, um, you know, if you, if you fail and, um, you know, people are, are laughing at you, et cetera, and you feel kind of, um, you know, vulnerable to criticism, et cetera, you take that moment and you learn from it.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
22. RGRobert Greene
  You learn what you did wrong, right? You learn what didn't work, and then you grow from that. And then the second thing that you create is gonna be powerful, and it's gonna be successful. I'm sorry. I forgot your question.
23. LHLewis Howes
  What is worse-
24. RGRobert Greene
  Oh, yeah
25. LHLewis Howes
  ... than not, than, than failing?
26. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah, so if you never try, you're never gonna learn, right? And, and a lot of people don't try because they're afraid of that very thing, of actually failing. They'll disguise it as- I'm not ready. I didn't go to the right school. I don't have funding. My daddy isn't rich. You know, people aren't helping me. There's a pandemic. It's bad out there, et cetera. No. So you're just blaming the fact that you're afraid of failure.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
28. RGRobert Greene
  Right? You're finding excuses. Actually, the pandemic is the gr- it's, it's a terrible, terrible thing. Don't get me wrong. It's 650,000 people have died. It's insane. But business-wise, it's an incredible opportunity for you. There is so much change going on-
29. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
30. RGRobert Greene
  ... that if you're young, and you're, you're smart, and you've got some skill, you will c- create something incredibly brilliant and find your own niche. So stop whining and stop blaming other pa- forces and try. Even before you're ready, start that business. Try something and learn from it, you know?
20:15 – 23:42
Urgency, “death ground,” and avoiding the regret of unused potential
1. LHLewis Howes
  What's the conversations we should be having with ourself more to set ourselves up on the path of accomplishing, achieving, and feeling better about who we are and our uniqueness in the world?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Well, one conversation you should be having is very simple. Life is shorter than you think. Okay, you're, you're, you're 25, and you're thinking, "Wow, I've got 10 years to figure it all out. I've got all these vistas of time. I'm young, I'm healthy, et cetera." You don't have nearly as much time as you ha- think you do. It goes very fast.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
4. RGRobert Greene
  So you need a sense of urgency and energy. Like, by the time I'm 30, I'm gonna have to try and start that business. I'm gonna have to do something. I don't have as much time as I think I have, right? And you have to develop some fire inside of you.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
6. RGRobert Greene
  You have to say... You know, a lot of times, um, people don't give you deadlines in this world, right? So you could s- you could spend your whole 20s and 30s never pr- producing the thing that you dreamed of because no one's pushed you. No one said, "You better do this by the time you're 35, or we're throwing you out of the house," or, or, you know, whatever. There are no consequences for, for procrastinating. You have to create those consequences. You have to live on what I call death ground.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Ooh.
8. RGRobert Greene
  Death ground means your back is up against the wall, the enemy is coming at you, and it's either defeat them or die, right? And w- you have to tell yourself, "I'd only have so much time," right? The peak creative years for anybody is in their early 30s.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
10. RGRobert Greene
  I think so. I believe so. And, and people have borne that out, various studies.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah, there's a different kind of creativity that one can have when you reach my advanced age.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Really? Yeah.
14. RGRobert Greene
  But your really fluid creative times-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
16. RGRobert Greene
  ... and I know it personally, are in your 30s, and they creep up really quickly. And if by the time you're in your mid-30s and you haven't started creating something, man, you're gonna be in your 40s, and it's almost gonna be too late. So you don't have as much time as you think you have. That should be the number one conversation that you have with yourself.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Okay. Any other conversations besides sense of urgency?
18. RGRobert Greene
  Well, um, the worst thing in life is to be 55 or 60 and to go, "I had potential."
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. RGRobert Greene
  "I had dreams. When I was a kid, I was gonna think I was do this," and you've realized none of that, right? So you want to have accomplished something in life, something that you're proud of. It doesn't have to be a book or anything.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
22. RGRobert Greene
  It could be something that lasts, that, that you're proud of, that gives you a sense of accomplishment, right? Because that carries off into every aspect of your life. It carries off into your relationships.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
24. RGRobert Greene
  It carries off into, into how well you sleep at night, et cetera.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Ooh.
26. RGRobert Greene
  So you don't... You want to have that in life. You want to accomplish something. What is it? What is it I want to accomplish? What was I meant to accomplish, and how can I start on the process tomorrow? Not next week or next year, tomorrow, right?
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
28. RGRobert Greene
  Maybe you can't start because you don't have the money, but you can start planning.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
30. RGRobert Greene
  You can start maybe taking classes or learning skills that you... You know, you can do that tomorrow, et cetera. So...
23:42 – 30:26
The overlooked meta-skill: marketing, self-promotion, and “the game of power”
1. LHLewis Howes
  What are, what are a couple skills you wish you would've mastered earlier in life that maybe you've mastered now, but... or maybe you haven't yet, that you wish you would've?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Uh, I wish I had mastered three-point jump shot. [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  Okay. [laughs]
4. RGRobert Greene
  [laughs] You know?
5. LHLewis Howes
  Three-point jump shot. Yeah. You a two-hand shooter? Yeah. [laughs]
6. RGRobert Greene
  No. Um, I don't know, um, because when it came time to write that book, I had learned a lot about researching.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  You know? Um- Maybe about, like, marketing
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
10. RGRobert Greene
  'Cause I'm not very good at that, to be honest with you. That's why I rely on people like Ryan Holiday-
11. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... who know their [censored] -
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
14. RGRobert Greene
  ... as opposed to me, who knows nothing.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
16. RGRobert Greene
  So, I wish I had been a little smarter about things like that, 'cause I was so much in my head, into my books and my research, writing, that I never really paid attention.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
18. RGRobert Greene
  Wish I'd been a little-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
20. RGRobert Greene
  ... more hard-edged that way.
21. LHLewis Howes
  I'm learning about promotion and marketing.
22. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah.
23. LHLewis Howes
  It's true, 'cause my, my brother, who's, uh, one of the, the best jazz violinists in the world-
24. RGRobert Greene
  Really?
25. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, he's arguably the number one in the world at jazz violin, and, uh, he said there's so many talented artists that think they're gonna be discovered, like in their basement or something. But you have to learn how to master your art, and then how to master the art of selling yourself.
26. RGRobert Greene
  Definitely.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Because if no one knows who you are, then you're not gonna have opportunities. You're not gonna be able to monetize your craft, your art-
28. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah
29. LHLewis Howes
  ... or have, you know, provide a lifestyle for yourself. So, and if, and if no one is aware of your, your art, then you're doing a disservice to the world by just hiding it for yourself or for a couple friends.
30. RGRobert Greene
  A lot of artists have that problem, is they think that that kind of sullies the, the, the, the, you know, what they're producing. Um, and, you know, they're afraid of, of that part of the game, but that's why a lot of artists fail.
30:26 – 36:20
Range vs mastery: building complementary skills without spreading yourself thin
1. LHLewis Howes
  So you gotta learn all these other things, for sure. What do you think is the s- the, the skill that a lot of people- ... master that's actually wasting their time?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Hmm. Never really thought of that. Um, I mean, uh, you, you can try too many things in life.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
4. RGRobert Greene
  You can try to learn too many things, right? And never master one of them, right? So the temptation in our culture is, with all the access to information, all the things going on in the media, to think that, "Oh, I'm gonna start pl- picking up the guitar now, and then I'm also gonna learn this and I'm gonna learn that." So people's, are kind of trying too many different things, and they're not, like, learning one thing-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm
6. RGRobert Greene
  ... really, really, really well.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
8. RGRobert Greene
  And so that's, that's, that's kind of like the, the main fault I see in a lot of people, particularly when they're young.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
10. RGRobert Greene
  'Cause it w- it's, it's very difficult when you're, there's so many things out there and there's so many temptations.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
12. RGRobert Greene
  And...
13. LHLewis Howes
  I think it's a balance of it, because there's a book, I think his name's David Epstein. Do you know David Epstein?
14. RGRobert Greene
  No.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Wrote a book called Sports Gene, I think it was called, but he also wrote a book called Range, which talks about all these successful people who actually were, had a range of skills that later in life... I think I mentioned this before with you. Like, you had a range of all these skills that maybe you did okay at, but didn't really, uh, optimize fully and succeed at. But the range of skills you had created these weird books.
16. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah.
17. LHLewis Howes
  I mean, these weird, powerful books that were different at the time -
18. RGRobert Greene
  Hmm. That's right. Yeah
19. LHLewis Howes
  ... that were unique, that i- and if you didn't have that range of trying all these things, maybe you wouldn't have created this unique product at the end.
20. RGRobert Greene
  I agree with it, but I, I, I, there's a little element that I would twist there.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
22. RGRobert Greene
  So for instance, I had learned researching skills-
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
24. RGRobert Greene
  ... um, when I worked in Hollywood a- and in journalism. And I, and that's a- actually a skill.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
26. RGRobert Greene
  You know, I learned how to work libraries. Like, you had no idea how to work a library, right?
27. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
28. RGRobert Greene
  And I'd done it for years.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Oh, man. That's a lot of time and energy.
30. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah. Well, that wasn't, like, just kind of a semi-skill that I possessed. That was a real skill.
36:20 – 39:50
A practical system for goals: the “ladder of descending goals”
1. LHLewis Howes
  What if someone's struggling to accomplish their goals? We've talked about fear a little bit, you know, it's been holding people back from the trying, it's getting out there. But what if they've got their, their goals, they've got the stuff, they're willing to go after it, but they're struggling accomplishing goals. Do you have any strategies or tactics to setting up your life in a way to accomplish goals more?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah. I mean, um, so I call it kind of a ladder of descending goals.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Okay.
4. RGRobert Greene
  I think that's one of the entries in that book.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Okay.
6. RGRobert Greene
  So what you want is a mix of things, 'cause a lot of success in life is creating this kind of balance. So you want an overall goal for yourself. Let's say you want to accomplish this business that you wanna start, right? But you're not able to get there, you're not able to make the bridge to it. Okay. So you, you say, "This is my long-term goal."
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  And then you build a ladder of descending goals of small things to get there. And, and, and within... And so let's say your goal is five years, you're gonna start the business.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
10. RGRobert Greene
  Then within that you've got months, and you've got weeks, and you've got days, and you're building small goals that you can reach and that are reachable. So-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... um, I wanna start my business. Um, it's really hard out there. There's one thing that I don't think I'm good at. All right. Well, tomorrow I'm gonna start learning this new skill. I'm gonna go to school, I'm gonna read this book, right? Give yourself a goal that you can reach in a week, right? Or, or in two weeks.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
14. RGRobert Greene
  Not in... So the, what's killing you is you're thinking too long term, and you can't get there, and, and it's kind of making it seem like it's impossible. It's killing your spirit, right? You're too ambitious, you're thinking too far ahead. You need smaller reachable goals, right? So your great business, your great book, your great podcast has other little steps you have to take-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yes
16. RGRobert Greene
  ... to get there. Create a step you can reach in a month, a week, or whatever, and reach it. Don't make it too difficult, but don't make it too easy. Make it a l- I always tell people to make it a l- little bit above what you think you can do, and you'll get there.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
18. RGRobert Greene
  But if you give yourself a goal in a month that is a step towards creating this larger thing, and you reach it, you'll have a sense of pride and accomplishment. You did something, right?
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
20. RGRobert Greene
  You got part of the way there. And you, now you know, like with determination you can, you know... You're, you're on your way, and you can do that again, and you can make another smaller goal. And you're not paying attention to five years from now, you're paying attention to tomorrow's goal. Your h- your eyes are focused on these small steps. You don't lose sight of the larger goal, because then you'll get mired in details. It's driving you, but your main focus is on reaching what you've set yourself up for a month by month, by week by week by week. Baby steps.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
22. RGRobert Greene
  If you do something every day and you reach these things, the sense of you've never done anything is what's killing you. You need to have a sense that you actually have something to show for it. You actually have reached part of the way there.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
24. RGRobert Greene
  You know? And believe me, when I start a book, it's like, "Ah, my God, I can't-
25. LHLewis Howes
  It's daunting
26. RGRobert Greene
  ... how am I gonna make it?" Well, I start off simply, and I go from simple goals, and I s- I have a process I go through, and I don't worry about three years down the l- the road. I worry about what I'm gonna do tomorrow.
39:50 – 47:00
The Daily Laws: crafting a realistic attitude through daily practice
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. It's not worrying about the finished product. It's kind of like when you're climbing a mountain, if you're looking up the whole time, you'd be like, "This is so far away." And you'd be so tired. You'd be like, "Ah, I can't do this." But if you're just focusing on one step at a time, and then you pause and you look up and you see you've gone farther, then it's more rewarding that way. Um, what, what should we know about The Daily Laws, your new book, 366 Meditations on Power, Seduction, Mastery, Strategy, and Human Nature? Why is this gonna be helpful for people to chunk on a daily basis something that they can take action on for yourself? What do you think?
2. RGRobert Greene
  Well, okay, so I've been at this, Lewis, for 25, 26 years now, which is a very good chunk of time, and, um, I've learned a lot.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
4. RGRobert Greene
  And if I could boil down what I think makes a person successful in one sense or one word, I would say it's your attitude in life-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. God
6. RGRobert Greene
  ... is, is the cutting edge, right? It isn't your skill, it isn't all these other things. It's how you look at the world, right? If you look at the world through the lens that's negative, like, "Nobody likes me. Um, the world is against me. I'm not really good enough. I don't deserve things," that's what you're gonna get in life, right? If you look at the world like, "There's opportunity for me. I'm good. I'm m- I'm aggressive. I know how to get there. I'm gonna get it," that's what you're gonna get. So how you look at the world is what you're going to get. And the attitude to me that is the most powerful and the most forceful, particularly nowadays, is a realistic attitude.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  Right? You're able to look at the world... First of all, you're able to look at yourself and assess who you are and not be filled with all these illusions or these insecurities. This is who I am realistically. This is my problems, my weaknesses, my strengths. This is what I'm good at. This is what I'm destined to create. Your ability to look at other people realistically and see through their appearances, see through their masks. They, they pretend to be this, but they're actually that, and I'm not gonna be fooled. I'm not gonna be naive-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
10. RGRobert Greene
  ... and I'm not gonna be fooled. I'm gonna see into that. This is what the world is like right now. These are the trends. I'm not deceived by all the things in social media. I know what's going on and where the world is headed in three years. You've got this laser focus. You're seeing through yourself, you're seeing through other people, you're seeing through all the bull- in the world. You understand what's happening. You can't fail when you have an attitude like that.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. RGRobert Greene
  Right? And you also understand the power of being fearless and taking risks, which is also a part of a realistic attitude. All right, how do you get there, right? Well, it's, it's not easy, because it, we're born with a certain attitude. We're born with things, with, um, with burdens and, and, and, uh, baggage from our childhood, et cetera. It's like a daily process.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
14. RGRobert Greene
  Right? You have to see- You have to see first your negative attitude, where it comes from, the problems with it. What is holding you back? And now you have the power to begin to fashion it to a degree that's going to actually be something strong and powerful. Well, this is what the book is designed for. So I've been covering this for 25 years. It's scattered across six books, right? In Mastery, I talk to you how to be realistic about your career. In Power, I tell you how to be realistic about the power games going on. In War, how to be strategic. You know, human nature, how to see into people. But it's all scattered, and it's hard to, like, find the cohesive thread through all these different books. This book is gonna bring it all together.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
16. RGRobert Greene
  It's gonna help you. It's very laser-focused, and I talk about it in the introduction, on crafting that hardcore realistic attitude about you, where you're headed in your career, the mistakes you're making, about people and their weaknesses and the power games they play-
17. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm
18. RGRobert Greene
  ... about what it takes to influence and persuade people, on and on and on. And you're gonna be doing it every day. Now, I know because I meditate every morning. I've been doing it for 11 years now. It saved my life, I can honestly say.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
20. RGRobert Greene
  Every morning, I sit on the pillows for 40 minutes now. I just focus on, on getting outside of myself. A- and I th- and I learn through this process that day by day by day by day, change occurs. It doesn't occur in a dramatic way. It doesn't occur like, "Wow, I'm different now." It almost occurs unconsciously. Things seep into you that you're not even aware of. This book is designed to get under your skin day by day by day by day. You're gonna read it.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
22. RGRobert Greene
  It's gonna make you think. You're gonna go on to the next day. It's gonna kind of strengthen that idea, come at it from another angle. And slowly, it's gonna get under your skin, and it's gonna alter how you look at the world and alter your attitude. And then maybe you'll reread it in a year.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
24. RGRobert Greene
  That's what it's designed for.
25. LHLewis Howes
  For me, this is the exact type of book that is perfect for me, 'cause it's hard for me to get through a full book-
26. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah
27. LHLewis Howes
  ... any type of book. But when I can go to one page every day and read something that's gonna be powerful to help me improve and give me a, a tip, a strategy, an idea to improve something in my life, it's the per- perfect type of book. So make sure you guys get a few copies-
28. RGRobert Greene
  [laughs]
29. LHLewis Howes
  ... The Dai- The Daily Laws, because your friends are gonna enjoy this, especially in a world where it's, where for most people, it's hard to stay focused long periods of time-
30. RGRobert Greene
  Yeah
47:00 – 55:28
Three truths after a stroke: gratitude, humility, and letting go
1. LHLewis Howes
  Um, I wanna ask you, um, a question that I've asked you before a few times. This is your fourth or fifth time on now. Um, and it's called the three truths. And I have your previous ones here, so I'm curious if it's evolved or changed-
2. RGRobert Greene
  Okay
3. LHLewis Howes
  ... as you have maybe a different perspective on life now. So, uh, the question goes like this. Imagine it's your last day on Earth, many years away from now, and you continue to accomplish all of your goals and dreams. But for whatever reason, you've gotta take all of your work with you, and it's your last day, and you have three final things you get to share with the world, these three lessons you would leave behind or three truths you would share with people, and they wouldn't have access to your books and your work or this interview or any of your content. What would be those three truths that you would leave behind?
4. RGRobert Greene
  Whoa. Um, well, you know, uh, so recently, I, I, I suffered a stroke like three years ago. Came out of the blue.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
6. RGRobert Greene
  I was totally healthy, swimming, biking, doing everything, you know? Um, and now it's all taken away from me. So the truth is, the first truth is don't take anything for granted.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  Don't assume that what you have now is gonna go on forever. It could be taken away from you tomorrow. And appreciate and love deeply what you have right now.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
10. RGRobert Greene
  It is an insane gift to be young. I wish I could go back to being young again, 'cause that was the most fun time in my life, right? You're in your 20s. You're healthy. You're exciting. You're seducing. You're just having lots of fun. Well, it doesn't last. Well, appreciate it-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... and suck, soak up every second of it, because something like this could happen to you tomorrow, particularly with this COVID that we're all living through. So do not take the smallest thing for granted-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Okay
14. RGRobert Greene
  ... 'cause it could be taken away from you.
15. LHLewis Howes
  That's one. [laughs]
16. RGRobert Greene
  Um, well, do not be afraid to face your own kind of weaknesses.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
18. RGRobert Greene
  Right? And, um, I'm speaking from experience, 'cause you're asking me, like, what's happened recently, you know? And, um, I've had to come to terms with my own limitations.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. RGRobert Greene
  Because I thought that I could do anything, right? And it's not just the physical limitation, it's the mental lis- limitations. It's the frustrations that I have. It's the anger with myself. It's like, "Why can't I... Is there something wrong with me that in my physical therapy I'm not able to strengthen my left arm?"
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
22. RGRobert Greene
  Et cetera. And I've been afraid, I think, to confront that and to see that I am my own enemy.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
24. RGRobert Greene
  I've probably gotten in the way of my own recovery-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
26. RGRobert Greene
  ... by my attitude, by being impatient, by being in too much of in a hurry, right? So I've had to step back and I've had to see, I've had to have some humility. So that's sort of the lesson, yes.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Okay. Yes.
28. RGRobert Greene
  Um, I'm not as great as I thought I was, but I can work on that. Now that I know that my impatience is getting in my way, I'm gonna work on that every day. So if at night I, I stumble or I drop something, I'm not g- I'm gonna calm down. And I, and I'm going through this kind of physical therapy now, which is actually trying to alter my attitude towards my own body.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
30. RGRobert Greene
  But I'm confronting my own limitations, and it can be at any age, and it's actually, you know, helping me get through this-
55:28 – 1:20:13
Greatness, empathy, and overcoming insecurity through preparation and exposure
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yes. Yes. Um, my final question is what's your definition of greatness?
2. RGRobert Greene
  My definition of greatness is kind of what I've talked about before. Um, it's realizing your potential-
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
4. RGRobert Greene
  ... to some degree. So we may not realize 100% of our potential. I certainly haven't realized 100% of my potential. There are things I probably could have done other... more of. But if your, if your potential is to raise a great family and raise really great kids, and you've done it, that's greatness.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
6. RGRobert Greene
  If your potential is to, is to just build something, however small it is, and you realized it, and you put... you realized 50, 60% of your potential, that is greatness.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  And then you can, you can go to bed at night feeling good and pow- and, and proud of yourself, right?
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
10. RGRobert Greene
  So a lot of it is, is it's not the money that matters. It's not the attention that matters. It's the inner feeling you have that you have accomplished something, that you have fulfilled your potential, that you have accomplished some of the dreams that you had as a child for yourself-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Right
12. RGRobert Greene
  ... right? And to, to have that sense that I have done that, that I have wr- wrote this book, that I created this business, that I started this podcast, that's greatness to me.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
14. RGRobert Greene
  Of course, there are levels of greatness, right? But that, that, that's enough for me as, as well, just-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
16. RGRobert Greene
  ... the sense that, um, I was born with this potential, and I worked, and I realized some of my gifts. I think that's, that's an amazing thing. That's greatness for me.
17. LHLewis Howes
  If you enjoyed that interview, then I know you'll love what we have coming up right now. What do you think is the greatest skill or couple skills that any 20 to 30-year-old, kind of in their 20s, should be learning how to master today? From the skills of psychology, the skills of human nature, the skills of understanding people, which skill should that be-
18. RGRobert Greene
  Well-
19. LHLewis Howes
  ... to focus on?
20. RGRobert Greene
  The, the, the, the, the best thing is to be able to get inside the minds of other people.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Ooh, there we go.
22. RGRobert Greene
  If you develop that skill, the sky's the limit. Nothing will ever stop you because people are like a mystery. They wear a mask, and you don't have any idea what they're thinking. And I, I have this metaphor in Human Nature, which I never wrote, but imagine a device was created in which, some app, that you can, uh, know the thoughts and feelings of the other person. Do you know the power you would have?
23. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
24. RGRobert Greene
  It'd be insane. Okay, you're not... I can't give you such an app. I can't invent that. But you can develop half of that power by becoming someone of insane empathy. And it's not easy, and not everybody's born the same way. But it begins with a, one very simple step, and that is normally you go around more interested in your own thoughts and ideas. You're thinking about your boss. You're thinking about your girlfriend or boyfriend. You're thinking about this person who said this, that, or the other, and you're locked in your head, and it's like a, a record, like in the old vinyl days, going around and round and round-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
26. RGRobert Greene
  ... the same grooves, right? And even when you're sitting there talking with someone on a date or something, you're thinking about yourself. You're still in there, right? Because you find yourself more interesting than the other person, and it's very human. I'm not judging you. But inevitably, you think your own dramas, your own ideas, your own problems are essentially more interesting than the other person. So if that's the... that's your starting position, you're naturally gonna be more absorbed in yourself. You need to switch it around, and you need to tell yourself, "The other person is more interesting than me."
27. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
28. RGRobert Greene
  Their life, their thoughts, their ideas, it's like an undiscovered world. It's like going to Tahiti or something and visiting another culture.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
30. RGRobert Greene
  They have experiences you've never had. They have a world that's not your world. It's fascinating. Why do people love movies? They love movies because they get to go inside other people's characters.
1:20:13 – 1:26:48
Reading the moment: stagnation, generational change, and embracing disruption
1. LHLewis Howes
  You've, we've got some other interviews we've had on our show. We'll link those up in the show notes if you wanna hear Robert's definition of greatness and his three truths, you can go listen to those. Uh, final question for you, what's the question you wish more people would ask you that they don't ask you?
2. RGRobert Greene
  I don't really have a, a... You know, w- when people put you on the spot like that, you have to be, like, so quick-witted.
3. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
4. RGRobert Greene
  And I'm not the... I'm s- kind of a slow brain, um-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Is there, is there anything you wish more people would, would have discussions about that they don't with you?
6. RGRobert Greene
  Well, uh, I don't know. I mean, you know, um, I'm kind of really into the zeitgeist.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. RGRobert Greene
  I wrote a chapter about that in Human Nature, about the times that we're living through. You know, I tend, people tend to think that I'm just interested in individuals and psychology now, but I'm also very interested in, in our culture-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
10. RGRobert Greene
  ... and our society and how it fits into the larger scheme of history. So sometimes people don't ask me so much about that chapter and about, "What do you think is going on right now in the world today? Where are we? What is the moment that we're in, and how does it compare in the past?" Um, because I've read a lot of history.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. RGRobert Greene
  I'm not bragging, because it probably led to my stroke-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
14. RGRobert Greene
  ... to be honest with you. You know, thousands of books, and so I have a s- innate sense of patterns of history, of things that repeat, of things... You know, people go through certain crises, and so it makes me very attuned to the spirit, to the feeling in the air now. So, you know-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. What do you think's gonna happen in the next few years based on history?
16. RGRobert Greene
  [laughs]
17. LHLewis Howes
  In t- in two minutes.
18. RGRobert Greene
  Oh, my God.
19. LHLewis Howes
  The ov- the overview of what you've s- experienced from all the historical events to what we're facing now.
20. RGRobert Greene
  Well, I think the human spirit can't deal with too much stagnation, can't deal with... So on the one hand, we're afraid of change. On the other hand, we're deadly afraid of boredom and stagnation, and things have been stagnant for too long. And we're on the verge of what I think could be a revolutionary generation. It's not carved in stone, because social media's kind of disrupted the apple cart, so to speak, but young people are the, are the motors of change in this world. They will create culture. They will create new movements.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
22. RGRobert Greene
  They will create, keep the world alive, because they enter the world, and the world doesn't fit who they are, because it was created by boomers or whomever. So they want to mold the world into something that's more like them, so they're the motors of all the changes, all the trends in fashion, all the trends in the arts, in politics, et cetera. But things have been too static for a long time. We live in a situation where the politics and the structures have not really shifted in 50 years.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
24. RGRobert Greene
  They're ossified. And so I think the s- human spirit is sick of it. If I were 20 years old, I would be sick of it. I would say, "This is not the world that I wanna live in." And so I feel like there's going to be an outbreak at some point-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
26. RGRobert Greene
  ... where people are gonna say, "I wanna live. I want something more alive. I don't want this world that is so unequal." You know, I, I'm, I'm somebody who rants against inequalities of wealth, et cetera, and just the kind of rigid s- social framework-
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
28. RGRobert Greene
  ... that we're living in. I think there will be an outburst. I can't... I'm not Nostradamus, so I could be wrong. In five years, people might be laughing at me. But I sense, and other people have written, who write about the generational phenomenon, say that the millennials were the crisis generation.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
30. RGRobert Greene
  And that's always followed by the revolutionary generation, which would be the Generation Y or whatever you call them.