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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

"Use These 3 SECRETS To Find The PERFECT RELATIONSHIP Today!" | Pastor Michael Todd & Lewis Howes

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Michael ToddguestLewis Howeshost
Mar 29, 20211h 30mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:26

    Start with honesty: stop pretending so you can get real direction

    1. MT

      Progression over perfection. That if you take a step every day, you'll get to the place that you're supposed to be in.

    2. LH

      I think you gotta have a dream. The school of greatness. Really? [laughs] Yeah. Please welcome Lewis Howes. How do you get to a place of unity vision if two people see the world in a different way?

    3. MT

      Honesty.

    4. LH

      Yeah.

    5. MT

      Like, there are so many people not actually being truthful about who they are today. Not that you don't wanna be better, not that there's not more for you, but today you're faking.

    6. LH

      Mm.

    7. MT

      Like, today you're a liar. Today you got up and put on a mask.

    8. LH

      Mm.

    9. MT

      And I always say it to, like, this to my, um, congregation and the people that listen to me, I say, "God doesn't bless who you pretend to be. He blesses who you really are."

    10. LH

      Mm.

    11. MT

      Like, and a lot of people try to make this performance thing for like-

    12. LH

      Right

    13. MT

      ... God and, and people and my family, 'cause this is what they want. And I was like, "There's a blessing on who you actually are, even if it's not good today."

    14. LH

      Mm.

    15. MT

      Because then you can start from there-

    16. LH

      Right

    17. MT

      ... and actually become who, uh, you really wanna be, or a better version of who you are. But if you're telling me... I, I mean, just think about it. I, I'm, I'm in LA right now.

    18. LH

      Yeah.

    19. MT

      I've never been here before. I, I don't know where this is. So when you sent me the address to do this, the first thing my phone asked me is, "Can I use your current location?" What if I told the Siri or told the map that I was somewhere I wasn't?

    20. LH

      Oh.

    21. MT

      It would've given me directions-

    22. LH

      From the wrong place

    23. MT

      ... from the wrong place.

    24. LH

      And you would've never gotten here.

    25. MT

      And I would've never reached this destination and been looking at your amazing smile-

    26. LH

      [laughs]

    27. MT

      ... if I wouldn't have been honest about where I was at.

    28. LH

      Mm, interesting. Even if it's a bad place, even if it's dark, shameful.

    29. MT

      Even if I'm lost-

    30. LH

      Right

  2. 3:26 – 5:49

    Progression over perfection: grace in daily relationship work

    1. LH

      So how do, uh, have you, have you had to heal in the last 10 years your relationship from stuff that happens every year? Or is it only stuff from 10 years ago that you guys have to work on?

    2. MT

      Bro, you know the answer to this question.

    3. LH

      [laughs]

    4. MT

      Man, I'm a, I'm a flawed man.

    5. LH

      Yeah.

    6. MT

      My wife is a flawed woman. Um, we serve, uh, an amazing God. We, we're people of faith. Um, but he knew we were gonna mess up, and there was, there was, there was, uh, room in the plan for imperfection.

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. MT

      Like, that's what I always tell people 'cause I'm a pastor and people know I'm a person of faith, and they think I'm just gonna throw the Bible at them all the time. And what I tell them, I was like, "No, no, no. Just first look at my life." Like, I've experienced amazing grace.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. MT

      And now I have to extend amazing grace-

    11. LH

      Yeah

    12. MT

      ... and I have to receive amazing grace 'cause I'm still gonna mess up. My wife had to forgive me for something b- before I came up here, you know what I'm saying?

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. MT

      Like, this is a daily walk.

    15. LH

      Mm.

    16. MT

      But that's why I tell everybody the, the beautiful thing about journey, if you can get this stuck in your brain a- and in your heart really, is that this life is about progression, not perfection. I know culture sells us perfection. I know your parents may have wanted perfection from you. I know you've probably required perfection of yourself, but that is the wrong metric. This is about progression. How much did you move forward from yesterday to today? Or how much did you move past, "I know you wanted to cuss him out last week, but you only said one cuss word this week"

    17. LH

      [laughs]

    18. MT

      You know what I'm saying? Or, last year y- it was about, um, being successful. You didn't take any breaks, but this year you actually took a few days and, and, and had soul care and self-care-

    19. LH

      Mm

    20. MT

      ... and spiritual enlightenment and getting back in your place of faith. Like, how did you progress? And I think for me, in all of my relationships, especially the one with my wife, the one that I'm in covenant with-

    21. LH

      Mm

    22. MT

      ... um, I have to know that I'm gonna need grace because I'm still figuring it out.

    23. LH

      Right.

    24. MT

      Like, there's nobody... Anybody on earth that says they're a relationship expert are liars.

    25. LH

      [laughs]

    26. MT

      Nobody knows everything about all relationships. We're just trying to share from our journey and truth-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. MT

      ... that we've experienced. And, um, I know for me that in the journey that I'm in right now, I make a lot less mistakes than I made 10 years ago-

    29. LH

      Right

    30. MT

      ... 'cause I've progressed.

  3. 5:49 – 7:27

    Trust as the core currency: lost in buckets, rebuilt in drops

    1. MT

      And yeah, there's tons of healing that has to happen from every lie, from every deception-

    2. LH

      Mm

    3. MT

      ... from every, um, wrong word that was spoken. I tell people this because a relationship is all about trust. And this is the thing that people don't really factor in. You can spend decades, years-

    4. LH

      Mm

    5. MT

      ... months building trust, but this is the truth: trust is lost in buckets, but gained back in drops.

    6. LH

      Yeah.

    7. MT

      So you could have an entire five-gallon bucket of trust built up-

    8. LH

      Yeah

    9. MT

      ... but one thing that you never said you would do, you do, and the whole bucket goes out.

    10. LH

      Gone.

    11. MT

      And now you have to come back and every day-

    12. LH

      Drop by drop

    13. MT

      ... drop by drop. You don't get a, a, a-

    14. LH

      A fountain [laughs]

    15. MT

      ... a fountain of trust built back up. And that's where most relationships fail-

    16. LH

      Mm

    17. MT

      ... is because they lost the trust and they were not diligent enough to build it back up.

    18. LH

      God, 'cause it takes a lot of hard work.

    19. MT

      'Cause it takes ... But the problem is you have history with that person, and a lot of times they would rather start over with somebody else to do the same exact thing-

    20. LH

      Mm

    21. MT

      ... instead of going back. And yeah, it sucks. Yeah, "No, didn't we talk about this? You know I don't want ... You ... Oh, come on." But no, this is valuable, and I'm the one who tipped this thing over, and so I'm gonna be the one to be consistent enough or disciplined enough to put those drops back in.

    22. LH

      What's been the biggest lesson for you in the last 10 years of putting drops back in over a decade plus with your wife? What's the lesson you've learned as a human being-

    23. MT

      Oh

    24. LH

      ... through that discipline, through that daily drop-

    25. MT

      Yeah

    26. LH

      ... after breaking trust-

    27. MT

      Yeah

    28. LH

      ... you know, back in the past?

  4. 7:27 – 10:30

    Why trust matters more than money—and what it feels like when it’s restored

    1. MT

      Yeah, yeah. Um, trust is way more valuable than money.

    2. LH

      Mm.

    3. MT

      Trust is way more valuable than connection. Trust is way more valuable ... Um, there's a book that I encourage everybody to read. It's called The Speed of Trust.

    4. LH

      Mm.

    5. MT

      And, um, um, it basically, the premise is that where there's trust, everything, um, takes less energy-

    6. LH

      Yeah

    7. MT

      ... it takes less money, and it has better results. But where there's no trust, it takes more energy, it takes more money, and there are minimal results.

    8. LH

      Yeah.

    9. MT

      And you can apply this to business, relationships. You could apply it to your family. And I think our culture is one that doesn't trust. We ... You prove to me.

    10. LH

      Mm.

    11. MT

      And, and, and, and, and at the moment that we don't, um, go into situations with trust, there's this disconnection that doesn't allow people ... Like, "The vibe's not right," or all these different sayings. I think for me, I've learned that trust is probably a higher commodity than anything else.

    12. LH

      Mm.

    13. MT

      My greatest relationship, me and my wife Natalie don't have to be doing anything. But when I'm in a bed in a hotel with a woman that I fully trust, it's more satisfying than any platform I've ever been on.

    14. LH

      Wow.

    15. MT

      It's more euphoric. It's more ... When I can say something and somebody believes me and I don't have to prove it to them, but they know what I'm saying is real-

    16. LH

      That's amazing feeling

    17. MT

      ... oh, what are you talking about?

    18. LH

      [laughs]

    19. MT

      Name the places you get that. Name the places. You gotta make presentations to make people you pay believe you.

    20. LH

      [laughs] Right.

    21. MT

      Come on, let's, let's be honest.

    22. LH

      Sure.

    23. MT

      Like, th- th- there ... Because there's still not full trust there. But when you put in so much trust that that person, your yes is a yes and your no is a no-

    24. LH

      And they fully trust

    25. MT

      ... and you, and they fully trust what you say, child. When I told my wife that I was gonna take care of her and I would never hurt her again, and to be able to now, 10 years removed, we just did a 10-year vow renewal. And we went out to this sand desert, and now it was me and our three kids, and we're sitting there, and glass runway. It's on YouTube, and we just ... Like, it was just the most beautiful thing to look into her eyes and say the words, unscripted, that came from my heart, and to look at her and knew they were hitting her heart, and she fully trusted what I said. You can't tell me nothing. Like, nobody-

    26. LH

      [laughs]

    27. MT

      Like, there's no feeling like that. And the sad truth, Lewis, is most people will never feel that. They will never know what it is to have another human being with your flaws-

    28. LH

      Mm

    29. MT

      ... with knowing the worst about you. I can't hide from my wife. She knows everything that I do. She knows when I do take showers and when I don't take showers.

    30. LH

      Yeah.

  5. 10:30 – 13:06

    When one partner won’t trust: the other person’s inner work and staying “single enough” to grow

    1. LH

      And what happens if you are 100% in integrity with your word-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... you're following through, you're being honest, you're showing up, you're delivering in a relationship, but the person doesn't trust you-

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... after years.

    6. MT

      Yeah.

    7. LH

      And you're like, "You have access to my phone."

    8. MT

      Yeah, it's real.

    9. LH

      "You have my passwords. You, you know where I'm at 24/7."

    10. MT

      Yeah.

    11. LH

      "And you still don't trust me." Is that still my responsibility, or is that the other partner's work they get to do?

    12. MT

      So the beautiful thing about the story that I'm telling you, I'm telling you from my side.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. MT

      But if you were to talk to my wife right now, there were things she had to do on her own during-

    15. LH

      Mm

    16. MT

      ... this whole process, or she wouldn't have made it. She wasn't sitting there like, "Prove to me that you would..." No. There was self-discovery she was going on. Do I wanna stay in this relationship? Is this worth it? What do I bring? What do I have? What am I worth? And that's why I tell people all the time, no matter if you're a couple, you're still single. Like-

    17. LH

      Oh

    18. MT

      ... even though you're in a relationship, you still have to be single enough to continue to improve. A lot of people-

    19. LH

      Mm

    20. MT

      ... stop improving once they get in a relationship.

    21. LH

      Like, "I got it."

    22. MT

      Like, I-

    23. LH

      "What else do I need to do?"

    24. MT

      ... I made it, and all that other stuff. But when you are in a relationship, there are still two very single people that need to work on their communication, work on their insecurities, work on their ability to communicate, work ... Like, and if you stop developing your singleness in marriage or in relationship, that relationship-

    25. LH

      Come on

    26. MT

      ... is headed for, at one per, one point, for somebody to be on another level and be like, "This is not what we signed up for."

    27. LH

      Right.

    28. MT

      "Hey, I thought we were partners. I thought we were, we were doing this together. I thought we were growing and going towards this together." And that's why I encourage people all the time, like, what, what have you brought to the relationship lately? Like, what skills have you improved in?

    29. LH

      Mm.

    30. MT

      What, has your emotional intelligence gone to another level? Has your spiritual awareness gone to another level? Has your faith gone to another level? Has your, have you learned a new language so when we go on our-

  6. 13:06 – 16:57

    Lists, “want” vs “need,” and not missing the right person in the wrong package

    1. LH

      Yeah. My friend Matthew Hussey talks about this, he talks about relationships from women, on how to really attract the right man in their life, the right partner. And he said to me one time, you know, "If you want to find a great partner, make a list of all the things you want from them, and then become that list-"

    2. MT

      Mm

    3. LH

      ... "yourself."

    4. MT

      Mm-hmm.

    5. LH

      And whatever you want in someone else, you need to become that first and really add that value to them as well.

    6. MT

      Yeah.

    7. LH

      And it's kind of like, what I'm hearing you say is, okay, after a year, two, five, 10 years, you have to keep becoming that list-

    8. MT

      Mm

    9. LH

      ... yourself to, to s- keep that partner excited or engaged and trustworthy and connected, and both parties have to be working on that list. Is that right?

    10. MT

      Now, I, I have a little different perspective on the list-

    11. LH

      Bring it

    12. MT

      ... because sometimes the list limits you.

    13. LH

      Ooh. Tell me more.

    14. MT

      Like, so I tell people a lot of time, 'cause specifically a lot of my sisters, a lot of, uh, they make lists. Now, they got lists.

    15. LH

      [laughs]

    16. MT

      He gotta be 6'5", he's gotta have this amount of money, he's gotta do that.

    17. LH

      But are they becoming the things that they want from-

    18. MT

      Okay, so this is-

    19. LH

      ... the qualities, not the-

    20. MT

      The qu- the, the things

    21. LH

      ... the things. The qualities, yes.

    22. MT

      Yeah, and that's the thing. Sometimes I do believe that there are certain things that you need to be able to, um, lay out and really ask yourself, "Am I becoming those things?" I don't think, though, the package always comes the way you think it's gonna-

    23. LH

      Of course

    24. MT

      ... come.

    25. LH

      True, true.

    26. MT

      And so a lot of times-

    27. LH

      Like 6'5", shredded, yeah

    28. MT

      ... yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and all kinds of things, even some of the qualities. Because the thing is, I tell people this, you write down what you want. I believe God factors in with your mate what you need, too.

    29. LH

      [laughs] That's true.

    30. MT

      See, the problem is, like, if you ask Natalie, I'm not what she wanted. Like-

  7. 16:57 – 19:35

    Preparation for commitment: why relationships need training, not gambling

    1. LH

      And what happens if you continue to be your best version year after year and the other person's not willing to go on that journey?

    2. MT

      Yeah.

    3. LH

      Is it, is it till death do we part, even if they're constantly pulling you down and saying, "I'm not gonna work on myself-"

    4. MT

      Yeah.

    5. LH

      "... you do all the work."

    6. MT

      This is-

    7. LH

      "I don't trust you," even if you're 100% honest.

    8. MT

      Yeah.

    9. LH

      Is it, you know, is that what it is?

    10. MT

      Now, there's al- there's always provision, um, in a relationship, especially when there's infidelity and there's different things that have happened, that there may be, this may be an unhealthy situation-

    11. LH

      Yeah, environment, yeah

    12. MT

      ... that we, that, that we can't, um, progress in. I honestly feel, though, a lot of people give up too soon on that.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. MT

      Nothing good, um, ever comes out of the easy way. There's nothing great, I'll say great, that comes out of easy. If it's gonna be great, there's gotta be some work that goes into it.

    15. LH

      Yeah, some pain.

    16. MT

      Some, there's gotta be some pain.

    17. LH

      Some discomfort, yeah.

    18. MT

      There's gotta be discomfort. There's gotta be, "Do I gotta do this again? Are we still talking about this?" And I really do believe in our, um, society today that we rush into things because we know how easy we can get out of them.

    19. LH

      Mm.

    20. MT

      Instead of taking the time. That's honestly why I've written books and done series and millions of people have watched it, 'cause I'm trying to convince people like, "Hey," like, "take this seriously. It's not just like, uh, oh, we met at the bar, we hooked up, um, we live together, now we should, uh, um, make a life together." And I'm not saying that, um, r- people haven't been in relationships that have worked like that. I'm just saying that if you had to take a test to get a driver's license- And, and, and, and be able to drive legally in your state. It's easier to get in a relationship with somebody, build a marriage, have kids that are gonna affect the rest of us-

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm

    22. MT

      ... with no actual preparation-

    23. LH

      No training

    24. MT

      ... no training, no required reading, no counseling, no honesty. Like, no like, "Hey, just before we get married, let me tell you how much debt I'm in."

    25. LH

      Right. [laughs]

    26. MT

      "Hey, just before we get married, let me tell you that your friend and that friend and that friend, I slept with all of them." Just before-

    27. LH

      Wow

    28. MT

      ... be- it- there's no requirements, and that's why I'm saying if, if we don't put that in-

    29. LH

      Mm

    30. MT

      ... and build that into the relationships we want, how can we expect... It's gambling. It's like, "Maybe this will work or maybe it won't." I think we can be more intentional-

  8. 19:35 – 26:59

    Three foundations for thriving relationships: transparency, shared faith, and fun

    1. LH

      What are the main principles that every relationship should be founded upon?

    2. MT

      Bro, I wrote a whole book about it. I'm gonna give you three of them.

    3. LH

      [laughs] Give me three.

    4. MT

      Let me give you three of them. The first thing has to be transparency.

    5. LH

      Yeah. About everything.

    6. MT

      Everything.

    7. LH

      Like, I had this thought.

    8. MT

      Yeah.

    9. LH

      I looked at this. I did the... Any idea.

    10. MT

      So, so I don't... I- I'll say this, you have to be wise.

    11. LH

      Yes.

    12. MT

      Because you, you, you have to, depending on the layer of relationship you're in right now. If you just meet somebody today and you don't even know if you wanna be with them, I don't think it's wise that you-

    13. LH

      Right, right

    14. MT

      ... you, you tell them everything. But I do believe that there's a difference between transparency and honesty, and many people have, um, adopted the, um, thought process and the philosophy of being honest, but not transparent. Honesty is, is when you ask me, I'll tell you the truth.

    15. LH

      But until then-

    16. MT

      But until then-

    17. LH

      I'm, I'm hiding something.

    18. MT

      Yes. And a lot of times, most of us don't get asked the questions that we need to answer.

    19. LH

      Mm. 'Cause those questions are scary to ask.

    20. MT

      Oh my gosh. They're scary to ask.

    21. LH

      And you don't wanna know the answers sometimes.

    22. MT

      And you don't wanna know a lot of times. And, and then it automatically, if the person is not emotionally, um, um, um, secure enough, then they're like, "What, you don't trust me?" Like-

    23. LH

      Mm

    24. MT

      ... there's so many different things that are there, and that's why I always ascribe to the philosophy of being transparent. You don't have to ask me. I'm gonna offer it up.

    25. LH

      Mm.

    26. MT

      I'm gonna tell you, "Hey, this, when you, when you talked to that guy at the restaurant, that made me feel some type of way, and it made me really start thinking about the insecurities of my last relationship and why we broke up. And I'm not asking you to solve it at this moment, but I'm letting you know how that made me feel, and, um, I'm just gonna process with that."

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. MT

      There's no question that your mate could have asked to get that, um, um, response that genuinely. 'Cause then they'll say something like this, "Are you okay?" "Yeah, I'm fine."

    29. LH

      [laughs]

    30. MT

      Like, and the truth is no, you're not, but I don't emotionally know how to let you know that, that honestly it wasn't really what you did. It's what I've been through-

  9. 26:59 – 29:13

    Family pressure and personal success: offloading the emotional weight

    1. LH

      What has been the biggest challenge for you during the rise of your personal brand success, the, the church success-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... the audience growth, the, uh, the financial growth? What has been the biggest challenge emotionally on how you've handled the emotional weight with the information about your son, the stuff with your wife-

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... and everything? How do you personally manage the emotional weight?

    6. MT

      So, um, there's a scripture that I go to all the time, and just because I'm a man of faith, there's a scripture that says, "Cast all your cares on the Lord, because he cares about you."

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. MT

      I have to, I have to offload daily, and most people carry daily.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. MT

      They keep picking up more. They keep picking up more. And every day, I, I, I go to my secret place of meditation, of, of spending time with my creator, and I say, "Hey, everything that's happening in this life, I'm casting it on you 'cause you care for me."

    11. LH

      Mm.

    12. MT

      I'm, I'm mentally casting it. I'm not gonna w- I gotta let that go. I cannot, I can't fix the situation. If, if I could pay for MJ to talk, I would, but I can't, so I'm casting it. I, I, I have this organization that's reaching millions of people, and I've never led anything like this in my life before. I have people's jobs and lives and benefits and everything, but I'm casting it. And what ends up happening is it doesn't make it go away. It just means I don't have to carry it alone.

    13. LH

      Mm, the weight.

    14. MT

      The weight.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. MT

      That's where anxiety and pressure and bad decisions and not resting and all that other stuff comes from. And j- imagine going to the gym and doing, um, uh, squats, 200 pounds on. You do the squats. You do your 10 of them.

    17. LH

      Ugh.

    18. MT

      Killing. Lewis Howes a beast.

    19. LH

      [laughs]

    20. MT

      Imagine walking out of the gym with that on your shoulders.

    21. LH

      Uh.

    22. MT

      Driving with that on your shoulders.

    23. LH

      That's exhausting.

    24. MT

      Doing the podcast with it on your should- like-

    25. LH

      Can't sustain it

    26. MT

      ... you cannot sustain it. And I think the weight of life people feel that they have to carry all the time by themselves, it doesn't mean that I'm not gonna have to squat stuff every day, but I'ma squat it, and then I'ma cast it.

  10. 29:13 – 33:01

    Control, pace, and margin: doing less to stay healthy and effective

    1. LH

      Do you think there's a way for people that aren't in your faith-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... who don't believe-

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... in the same things you believe, is there a way for people to let go of that weight-

    6. MT

      Mm-hmm

    7. LH

      ... even if they don't have the same faith?

    8. MT

      I believe there's a way to start that process. I believe the first thing that you have to realize is you're not in control.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. MT

      Like, like no matter what faith, [laughs] no matter what you believe, where you came from, make the sun come up 20 minutes earlier.

    11. LH

      [laughs] Yeah, you can't.

    12. MT

      Like, add another hour to the day.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. MT

      And I think there's this false sense in a lot of our beliefs that make us feel like we're in control of stuff.

    15. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MT

      There are certain things you are in control of, but there are so many more that you're not in control. The business failed. Coronavirus, who ... We didn't ... How? Like ...

    17. LH

      Yeah.

    18. MT

      And so I think that if you first recognize that you're not in control, then it gives you the ability to see what you are in control of. You are in control of the toxic relationships-

    19. LH

      Right

    20. MT

      ... you let into your life.

    21. LH

      Right.

    22. MT

      You are in control of what you do with your time. One of the other reasons that I feel like during this, um, what I call the world wind of change in my life, why we've been able to sustain and be anchored is because I made some very hard decisions to do less when everybody was telling me to do more I can't control that my son, um, has to go to therapy three times a week, and I can't control what's happening with this business and with this, but I can control what I do.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. MT

      So when we went from, um, four speaking engagement request in 2017 to over 3,000 a year later-

    25. LH

      Wow. Crazy

    26. MT

      ... nuts.

    27. LH

      [laughs]

    28. MT

      I still did less than five.

    29. LH

      Really?

    30. MT

      Because I knew that I couldn't control everything.

  11. 33:01 – 39:55

    Mentorship and sabbaticals: why breaks unlock clarity, purpose, and better work

    1. LH

      I think I heard on an interview, you talked about where you had a mentor that taught you about-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... or just told you, "Hey, listen, as you continue to grow, it's gonna be important to have space, time every year that's just for you and family."

    4. MT

      Yeah. So-

    5. LH

      When was that? Who was that?

    6. MT

      [laughs]

    7. LH

      What ... And w- how has that process been?

    8. MT

      So I am grateful and thank God for mentors-

    9. LH

      Yeah

    10. MT

      ... ones that I've met and ones that I d- haven't met through books and all that other stuff, um, because you don't know what you don't know.

    11. LH

      Yeah.

    12. MT

      But you can learn from people who have been there before. And, uh, I became the lead pastor of a church in 2015, Transformation Church. Um, and shout out to Transformation Nation, anybody that are watching, I love you. Um, but I, uh, became the pastor of that church, and what ended up happening was a mentor sat me down, his name is Tim Ross out of Dallas, Texas, and, um, this was such a divine moment in my life.

    13. LH

      How old were you?

    14. MT

      I was 27, 26 when he told me this, and I'm about to take over this church. I didn't know anything about leading this type of congregation. I was a music producer. I was supposed to be at the Grammys, and now I'm about to be a pastor of a church. I'm like, "What in the world is going on?" And he said, "Listen, you're going to need a month break every year so that you can be able to calibrate what has happened to you, how to heal from it-

    15. LH

      Mm

    16. MT

      ... and how you move forward."

    17. LH

      Wow.

    18. MT

      And I'm like, "There's no way I can do this." It's February and y- and I'm about to be over the ... be the pastor of the church, and I'm leaving in June for a month? I was like, "I'm gonna come back. There's no church gonna be there. The building's gonna be burnt down," all that. He said, "No, no, no, no, no. I'm telling you, if you don't take time," he's like, "Even if it's not a month, whatever you can get, if you don't take time to do this," he said, "you're gonna look up and be somebody you don't wanna be."

    19. LH

      Mm.

    20. MT

      And I had the presence of mind to say, "All right. I don't-"

    21. LH

      I trust you. I'm gonna do this. Yeah

    22. MT

      ... I trust you. I don't know that. I'm gonna do ... When I tell you, Lewis-

    23. LH

      [laughs]

    24. MT

      ... that this has given me more mental clarity about my calling, my relationships-

    25. LH

      Mm

    26. MT

      ... my, my family, my future, and my success than any other thing. It's better than meeting anybody. It's better than networking.

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. MT

      It's I get to be with me and my creator and decompress and relax and celebrate and grieve and be able to grow.

    29. LH

      Mm.

    30. MT

      And, and it's like, it's like being flushed out and ready and open for whatever's next. And it has been the most life-giving ... Relationship Goals happened after I was on sabbatical. Like, every great thing that I've ever done came after I took a break.

  12. 39:55 – 45:38

    Trauma communication and intensive counseling: learning to stay present instead of fixing

    1. LH

      What's the biggest challenge you've had, uh, with this opportunity with your son-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... in terms with your relationship, your marriage? What's the biggest challenge you've had as a couple-

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... with that opportunity of your son-

    6. MT

      Um, I think-

    7. LH

      ... and what he's going through?

    8. MT

      Yeah, I think one of the things that every, uh, couple has to d- figure out for themselves is how you communicate during trauma.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. MT

      Um, a lot of people have one style of communication when everything's going good.

    11. LH

      [laughs]

    12. MT

      But when there's trauma, your communications change. Um, for my wife, um, in, in trauma she wants to communicate about it and talk about it. In trauma, I wanna think about it.

    13. LH

      Mm.

    14. MT

      And so, and, and fix it. That's my, uh, uh, uh, nature, and that's most men's nature-

    15. LH

      Yeah, yeah

    16. MT

      ... is to try to figure out the person you love is suffering or hurting, like where-

    17. LH

      Fix it. Now let's move on

    18. MT

      ... let's fix it and let's move on.

    19. LH

      Yeah. [laughs]

    20. MT

      And so there's been a lot of times that I've had to learn to just listen-

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm

    22. MT

      ... and just sit with you, and just get down in the hole with you and just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way, and I understand." And that at the beginning of this process was very difficult for me. It was very difficult for me. I'm like, "Well, let's, let's call every doctor, and let's da, da, da." Like, like and, and-

    23. LH

      Yeah

    24. MT

      ... but that wasn't helping her.

    25. LH

      Mm.

    26. MT

      What she needed to know is that somebody was with it in her, with her-

    27. LH

      Mm-hmm

    28. MT

      ... at the place she was at. And so we did, um, probably three, four weeks of intensive counseling. And when I say intensive, I'm not talking like, oh, we go once a week. We-

    29. LH

      Daily. Every day

    30. MT

      ... like, we went every day-

  13. 45:38 – 1:00:53

    Therapy as a lifelong investment: reshaping relationships, leadership, and community

    1. LH

      How important is counseling or therapy-

    2. MT

      Oh

    3. LH

      ... for couples when they get star- I've always said, you know, I wish I start a relationship in therapy. Like going together in the first few months of dating saying, "You know what? We're gonna be together. Let's start therapy then."

    4. MT

      Let's do it.

    5. LH

      Not when things are troubling-

    6. MT

      Yeah

    7. LH

      ... and there's challenge. Let's do it when everything is great.

    8. MT

      Yeah. So I tell everybody-

    9. LH

      How important is it in the beginning-

    10. MT

      Oh

    11. LH

      ... middle, forever?

    12. MT

      Everybody should be in counseling forever.

    13. LH

      Mm.

    14. MT

      Like I, and I, I say it like this. Um, the, the Bible says there's wisdom in the multitude of counsel. Like, there's wi- like when you counsel, that's a place you find wisdom.

    15. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MT

      Processing out loud, allowing somebody that knows how your mind, your emotions, your brain works that's not in it be able to just observe and suggest different things.

    17. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MT

      Being able to understand like, "Hey, you keep saying the same thing, and you don't realize it, but we all see this pattern of this."

    19. LH

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    20. MT

      Like-

    21. LH

      Having someone hold you accountable.

    22. MT

      Hold you accountable.

    23. LH

      A mediator. Yeah.

    24. MT

      That, like that is some of ... I say it like this. It's a better investment than real estate.

    25. LH

      It's the greatest investment.

    26. MT

      [laughs]

    27. LH

      Your, your emotional and mental peace, there's no better investment.

    28. MT

      People don't think that though.

    29. LH

      There's no greater investment than your emotional peace.

    30. MT

      People don't think that though, Lewis.

  14. 1:00:53 – 1:05:15

    Revealing shame to heal—and the cost of leaving pain to rot

    1. LH

      I love that, man. And you, you said you can't heal what you won't reveal. Uh, about eight years ago I started to share my shame, the things that I was afraid to reveal.

    2. MT

      Mm.

    3. LH

      And I wasn't able to heal ... I realize that statement that you said right there is so powerful for me because for 25 years I was holding onto pain, shame, resentment, anger, frustration. Uh, and I've talked about this many times publicly about dealing with sexual abuse as a child, holding onto that for so long. It wasn't until I started to share the shame- Where I was able to start the healing process

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      And I think a lot of people hide, uh, their shame, and it's hard to heal if you're hiding, right?

    6. MT

      Sure.

    7. LH

      It's really hard to heal.

    8. MT

      So good.

    9. LH

      So how does someone get to a place of sharing, opening up, revealing so that they can heal when it is so dark, so painful, so traumatic-

    10. MT

      Yeah

    11. LH

      ... from something in the past?

    12. MT

      So this is where counseling comes in, uh, [laughs] heavy.

    13. LH

      Okay.

    14. MT

      You know what I'm saying? Or good, um, in my opinion, godly community.

    15. LH

      Yeah

    16. MT

      Like, people who you can tell that won't trash you-

    17. LH

      Mm-hmm

    18. MT

      ... while you're peeling back this onion.

    19. LH

      Yeah.

    20. MT

      Like, you know what I'm saying? Like-

    21. LH

      Where you're super vulnerable

    22. MT

      ... where you're super vulnerable.

    23. LH

      Yeah.

    24. MT

      And I just, I... People make circles based on success a lot of times-

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm

    26. MT

      ... in networking, instead of making circles based on, um, insulation. When you have a circle around you, you need an insulation. You need people you can be your 100% self with, and they protect you-

    27. LH

      Mm. Mm

    28. MT

      ... and cover you. Not cover up, but cover you, and help lead you to the right place. And for me, I had that. I had a good, godly community as well as we had counseling.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. MT

      And, um, sometimes you gotta be able to be put in positions that make you answer questions you don't wanna answer, and talk about things that nobody wants to... Like, when they start asking you, "What's one thing that happened to you when you were younger?" And I would encourage, encourage everybody to ask you this, "What are, what's one thing that happened to you when you were younger that negatively shaped who you are today?"

  15. 1:05:15 – 1:12:48

    Jealousy, generosity, and limiting exposure: running your own lane

    1. LH

      I wanna bring it back to jealousy for a second.

    2. MT

      Let's go.

    3. LH

      Why are we jealous human beings? And is there a place in which we can be completely not jealous of our partner or someone else?

    4. MT

      Yeah, so jealousy is our nature. We are all born with a nature that you do not... I have kids. I don't have to teach them how to be bad.

    5. LH

      [laughs]

    6. MT

      Like, all of my kids learn, "No, mine." I never taught any of my kids those words. I have to teach them, "Share."

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. MT

      I have to teach them-

    9. LH

      Yeah

    10. MT

      ... give.

    11. LH

      Yeah, contribute. [laughs]

    12. MT

      To help.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. MT

      We're all born with what I call a, a lower nature, a sin nature-

    15. LH

      Mm

    16. MT

      ... that's in us, and jealousy is the primary nature that is formed there. All the way back to Cain and Abel, it, it, it, you... The first two brothers kill each other over jealousy. Like, it's our nature. And so what you have to do is fight that nature with the thing that is counter that nature. So, um, when you think jealousy, um, when you think competition, when you think selfishness, you have to do the opposite of those things. You have to celebrate others. You have to be generous. You have to give. The only way to put out, um, the fire is give it the opposite thing. And so I found in my life-

    17. LH

      Mm

    18. MT

      ... that, again, you gotta be... We can't act like this stuff is not real, 'cause we'll never deal with it. A lot of people won't even admit they're jealous of something, jealous that the friend got a new house, or everybody's getting married and they're not, or jealous that, that, that doesn't even happen, so those people, they just tuned us out right now.

    19. LH

      For sure.

    20. MT

      But for anybody that would actually admit, "Hey, there's areas of my life that I, I, I-

    21. LH

      Mm

    22. MT

      ... wish I had what they had. I'm coveting those things." Um, when you start to give what you wish you had, somehow those things begin to come into your life-

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm

    24. MT

      ... in a different way, or you don't desire them anymore. And that's how I have found for me that I give- ... what I desire to have. It's the, the principle of sowing and re-

    25. LH

      Like what? What's an example?

    26. MT

      Okay. So when we, when we were in a season, I'll talk about it business-wise, when I was in a season of not making a lot of money and, um, was trying to really figure out, like, how am I gonna like, I'm, I wanna marry this girl, I wanna do this, I wanna-

    27. LH

      Save money, yeah

    28. MT

      ... you know what I'm saying? I need savings, I need investments, all that other stuff. And I heard so strongly in my, in my time of devotion, "Hey, you need to give something to somebody who's where you wanna be." They already got it. That doesn't mat- th- that doesn't make sense. And it was almost like instead of looking at what they had and trying to be like, "I wish I had that," okay, become a part of it.

    29. LH

      Mm.

    30. MT

      Sow into it. Give what you desire, um, to somebody else and help their journey, and it's the, the principle of sowing and reaping. You, you, you're always going to reap whatever you sow.

  16. 1:12:48 – 1:22:38

    Money, transparency, and generosity as “fruit”: purpose-first abundance and giving stories

    1. LH

      How do you create a financial abundant mindset? As a pastor-

    2. MT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... of a church where it's probably, I'm assuming, taboo to be talking money-

    4. MT

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... or be thinking let's build wealth and abundance-

    6. MT

      Yeah, yeah

    7. LH

      ... as a pastor, as a church. You guys have publicly announced acquiring this $40 million arena center in Tulsa, which is amazing-

    8. MT

      It's crazy

    9. LH

      ... and creating communities and opportunities for people there. How did you, one, go from [smacks lips] not acquiring a lot of wealth and an abundance mindset, maybe you had it before, how did you transition that knowing that I am a pastor where people are gonna judge me-

    10. MT

      Yeah, yeah

    11. LH

      ... based on how much money we bring in, based on these things? How do you manage that stigma maybe-

    12. MT

      Mm-hmm

    13. LH

      ... and also be at peace with creating financial abundance?

    14. MT

      Yeah.

    15. LH

      And how can we learn to create financial abundance in a spiritual way?

    16. MT

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that question. That's a good question, bro.

    17. LH

      [laughs]

    18. MT

      I, I think the first thing that you have to realize is I'm aware of the landscape of most pastors in, uh, the world when it comes to finances, where there's been a lot of abuse.

    19. LH

      Mm.

    20. MT

      There's been a lot of misuse.

    21. LH

      Mistrust and abuse.

    22. MT

      Mistrust.

    23. LH

      Yeah.

    24. MT

      And so the first thing that I did when I came in as a pastor is I decided, it goes back to what I've talked about in relationship-

    25. LH

      Transparency

    26. MT

      ... that I was gonna be completely transparent.

    27. LH

      Yeah.

    28. MT

      So, like, every year we tell the church every dollar, every cent that came in, we tell them that every dollar that comes in, 10-plus percent is going out in missions. We let people know what we're doing-

    29. LH

      Mm

    30. MT

      ... how it's going to happen. And you can't make anybody give to a nonprofit. You cannot make anybody... I mean, they have to do that on their own. We don't make a big deal about any of those things. We decided that finances would be the fruit and not the focus.

  17. 1:22:38 – 1:30:20

    Closing reflections: why he does it, three truths, and defining greatness

    1. LH

      Uh, this was a question I asked you before we started the camera rolling. I asked, said, "What's the thing you wish more people asked you?"

    2. MT

      Yes.

    3. LH

      And you said, "Why do I do what I do?" So I'm curious, why do you do what you do?

    4. MT

      'Cause I wish I would have had it. I'm trying to be everything I wish I would have had.

    5. LH

      Growing up?

    6. MT

      Growing up, I wish I would have had somebody who would have been completely authentic and aut- au- completely authentic and honest about their journey-

    7. LH

      Mm

    8. MT

      ... that showed the joys of living a life of integrity-

    9. LH

      Mm

    10. MT

      ... that actually loved their wife and family and were committed to a calling bigger than themselves.

    11. LH

      'Cause you didn't see that example.

    12. MT

      I didn't see it. There was always ... Anybody great had to be a rapper or an athlete. Like, there was no people that were like regular people that didn't have some g- um, you know, amazing gifting and then they made their life ... The ... I just didn't see it. That wasn't what was glorified. And I di- I definitely didn't know anybody, like personally-

    13. LH

      Mm

    14. MT

      ... that was there, and nobody talked to me about relationships. I went through so much crap just 'cause I didn't know, and I think a lot of things, um, the Bible says that the older are supposed to tell the younger, and they're supposed to teach. And a lot of times, there's not margin for that.

    15. LH

      Wow.

    16. MT

      So how many, how many things have you not learned, not because you didn't want to know, but just 'cause nobody-

    17. LH

      Had the time

    18. MT

      ... or, or h- was generous enough to actually take the time-

    19. LH

      Right

    20. MT

      ... to share it?

    21. LH

      Right. Right.

    22. MT

      And so I just said, "Hey, if I ever get an opportunity, I'm going to be what I wish I would have had-

    23. LH

      Mm

    24. MT

      ... what would have saved me hurting people, what would have saved me making mistakes and bumping my head and getting addicted to those things and making those wrong decisions. Like, I'm gonna save ... " And that's why I, I'm authentically who I am.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. MT

      I feel like I've been called by God to, um, help people and help people win in relationships, help people discover, um, their purpose. And, and that's why I do it, 'cause there's a Mike Todd somewhere that is watching this interview right now and is like, "That's what I needed to hear to make this next decision."

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. MT

      "That doesn't seem big, but it's gonna affect me forever."

    29. LH

      Mm.

    30. MT

      And that's why I do it.

Episode duration: 1:30:20

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