Lex Fridman PodcastDr. Julia Shaw on Lex Fridman: Why murder fantasy is normal
Why most people harbor murder fantasies that never become behavior; the dark tetrad places psychopathy and sadism on spectrums everyone occupies.
Episode Details
EPISODE INFO
- Released
- October 14, 2025
- Duration
- 2h 42m
- Channel
- Lex Fridman Podcast
- Watch on YouTube
- ▶ Open ↗
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Julia Shaw is a criminal psychologist and author who in her books explores human nature, including psychopathy, violent crime, the psychology of evil, police interrogation, false memory manipulation, deception detection, and human sexuality. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep483-sb See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. *Transcript:* https://lexfridman.com/julia-shaw-transcript *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* Julia's Instagram: https://instagram.com/drjuliashaw Julia's Website: https://www.drjuliashaw.com/ Julia's Linktree: https://linktr.ee/drjuliashaw Julia's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjuliashaw/ Julia's Books: https://amzn.to/4mQBnTV Green Crime (US Book): https://amzn.to/4nLfSVE Green Crime (Canadian Book): https://amzn.to/47lBAdc *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep483-sb *BetterHelp:* Online therapy and counseling. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-ep483-sb *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep483-sb *AG1:* All-in-one daily nutrition drink. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/ag1-ep483-sb *OUTLINE:* 0:00 - Episode highlight 0:23 - Introduction 1:38 - Dark Tetrad - Psychopathy, Narcissism, Machiavellianism, Sadism 22:45 - Serial killers 37:21 - Murder 45:13 - Lies and scams 50:00 - Jealousy 53:29 - Monogamy 58:42 - Sexuality 1:13:43 - Sexual fetishes 1:29:18 - Criminal psychology 1:32:26 - False memories 2:18:22 - Criminals destroying the planet 2:33:46 - Hope *PODCAST LINKS:*
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SPEAKERS
Julia Shaw
guestLex Fridman
host
EPISODE SUMMARY
In this episode of Lex Fridman Podcast, featuring Julia Shaw and Lex Fridman, Dr. Julia Shaw on Lex Fridman: Why murder fantasy is normal explores inside Evil: Julia Shaw On Murder, Memory, Sex, and Green Crime Lex Fridman and criminal psychologist Julia Shaw explore how so‑called “evil” behaviors exist on a psychological continuum rather than in a good–evil binary, focusing on the dark tetrad traits and why ordinary people can commit extraordinary harm. They discuss false memories, lie detection, serial killers, murder fantasies, jealousy, kinks, bisexuality, and non‑monogamy, emphasizing empathy and nuance instead of moral panic. Shaw explains her research showing how easily false criminal memories can be implanted, and why this matters for police interviews, therapy, AI systems, and personal wellbeing. In the final part, she introduces her work on environmental crime, arguing that corporate and ecological offenders are best understood through the same psychological lenses as other criminals, and that tech and social science together can be used to prevent harm.
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